(request) Mixed post/read privilege posts/forums - About xda-developers.com

After the amount of cleaning required of the recent WP7 ROM dump post, it came to me to recommend that invent or implement a way for a group of developers to hold their conversation in public view (to further learning and openness) while not simultaneously giving everyone the right to post to that topic.
This seems preferable to having completely private developer groups form where discussions no longer provide learning opportunities for less experienced users.
Invite-only reply, but all can read.

I'm not sure if this is possible with vBulletin, but there are a number of chefs / developers in the Chef Central forum who have moderator rights in that forum, which should allow them to post in closed threads, if required.
It's often a problem with anything new like this, everyone gets excited and wants to talk about it, XDA has 5000+ members online most of the time. I don't think preventing people from posting is the best way forward though, who's to say one members opinion is less than any others. In my experience, soon things will be old news and those in the know will have all the facts and share them in a many more accessible ways.


Something Needs to Change

I've decided that rather than start attacking some of the forum users whose conduct I don't agree with, I'd write an opinion and a suggestion.
Let me start by saying, that I love XDA. Before I became a member, I spent countless hours reading through threads on these forums. Admittedly, prior to discovering the Nexus One I was an iPhone user, and apple fanboy. I can honestly say that XDA helped cure me of that.
I am not a developer. I use these forums as a method of learning how to enhance my phone; to build a working knowledge of Android; with a hope to one day I will be able to repay the Devs who helped me with original work of my own. Lately, as many people have already stated, I've noticed that the quality of discussion in many forum threads has gone down significantly. The mods do an excellent job of keeping threads on topic, and cleaning useless posts, however, I think its getting to be too much for them. This is my attempt to provide advice to new users, and to suggest a possible course of action to help correct the conduct that is a cancer on this great site.
I've seen threads where Dev's are threatened if they don't release ROMs, where people demand ETAs. Team Hacksung, who worked tirelessly to release CM7 for the SGS2 actually had to threaten to leave XDA to bring order to their development thread. I've also seen threads degrade into rascism and discrimination, threats of violence and bigotry. None of this is acceptable, and will serve no other goal than forcing developers to leave XDA.
People need to understand a few things:
[*] Dev's work is done on their own free-time
[*] Dev's work is done for no compensation other than the gratitude of their peers and the occasional donation.
[*] Dev's are under no obligation to release ANYTHING to the members of XDA - If they don't feel their work is ready, or they aren't ready to share it, you have no right to demand it released.
[*] Access to Dev work is a privilege that can easily be revoked; NOT A RIGHT.
In addition to the excellent and trying job that the moderators already undertake, I suggest the following apply to anyone not recognized as a developer:
[*] There is a 3 strike rule with regards to posting in each development section. Any posts deemed to be off-topic, not-relevant, hateful, malicious, rascist, etc should be deemed a strike. I would not include obvious jokes, sincere mistakes, attempts to be helpful, etc as a strike. My goal is not to discourage participation, but to discourage comments designed to be harmful.
[*]Strike 1 is a warning, Strike 2 is a one week ban from posting within the development forums, strike 3 is a permanent ban from posting within the development forums.
Moderators would be responsible for determining what is a strike based on a pre-determined criteria.
My 2c, take it or leave it..
"In a perfect world..."
This is an internet forum, not the world... you can be as punitive as you like...
Sent from my SCH-I510 using XDA Premium App
I think your suggestions are too lenient. In the six years I've been here, the mods have only gotten more and more lax in the rules with the influx of Android users. It used to be that if you said something retarded or offensive, it was an automatic ban. Now, it seems as though it takes an act of congress to get an abusive user removed. Don't worry, though. Their are some changes coming soon that will help out tremendously.
I agree and it's quite simple. Have respect and decency toward others and remember this is a "family oriented" site/community and that needs to be respected. I have stated my advice elsewhere in the forums that XDA needs to start ruling with an "IRON FIST" and keep this site enjoyabe and respectable as it should be. I stand behind that and always will. It is the best way to run the forums otherwise it will turn into a battleground of idiots envoking arguments, name calling, etc. I personally take offense to people who attack others in the forums and elsewhere on XDA. I have probably gotten a little out of line in the past a couple of times but that was due to others' attacks and flaming.
If you feel you should be allowed freedom of speech and explicit visual interpretation/expressionon on XDA, then this isn't the community for you. XDA holds the right to moderate it's site and forums as they see fit. In this case XDA chooses to run a family friendly site instead of a free-for-all slugfest site and I'm in favor of that. This is not directed to anyone in particular, nor do I pass judgement on anybody it's just my thoughts. Leave the hate/foul mouth comments in your world not here #XDA.
I think XDA is the best "go-to" site for all smartphone development needs and resources and that is how everybody should want to keep it. I bet most of you will agree. Do your part by helping and respecting others AT ALL TIMES. Please don't post hate comments, intentional troll provoking/explicit behavior/expressions, hateful/attitude remarks here at XDA.
Thanks for reading.
I didn't want to elaborate, but meh I'm bored. You are not the first to post about this, and won't be the last. It will get buried, and life will go on. I mean, there was already a thread about this in this very forum... and it's one of the top 5 right now.
It's a world wide forum. People will post stuff you don't like. PM a moderator and tell them about it and move on. Or use the ignore list. There are new users both new to phones AND the internet/computers. They will make mistakes and ask questions (ETAs and such). At the end of the day, it's the internet. Does it really bother you so much that someone "demanded" an ETA? Made a disrespectful comment?
An old saying works wonders here. If I had $1 for every "XDA is dying" post, I'd be very wealthy.
P.S. I also heard that the sky is falling.
Yes, bans! bans! more bans! RAWR BANHAMMER. That's the way to encourage growth. Everyone knows that a police state is what is needed.
This has nothing to do with site growth. It never has. If you break the rules, you get punished. It's that simple. You can try ignoring useless or inflaming comments all you want, but all that does is allow the behavior to continue. Obviously, catering to the behavior and becoming more lenient didn't work. The result is that the mods are now beginning to crack down harder again. This is the direction the site is now going. This site is about developers, not troubleshooting.
Users should learn manners and respect or go somewhere else. That's the main point. It isn't our job here to teach people the manners their parents could not. That's why the site isn't named XDA-Babysittingservice.com.
It the world wide web there are bound to be idiots out there. If they start banning these people there be just me and the mods left!!
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA Premium App
No, each and every demand for an ETA or disrespectful comment does not bother me that much, and of course I understand that its the internet. Its very easy to behave like an idiot when you are hiding behind pixels. Its really the totality of the circumstances that I am referring to. The object of XDA is for individuals to share development information with the common goal of improving Android phones. If the purpose of the site is lost in all the ETAs and disrespectful comments, then what is the point? Certainly, the point is not to lose developers...
Call me whatever you like, your admission that there are multiple complaints like mine on each sub-forum is proof that there is a problem with member conduct on the site. And I did say that my OP was my own opinion, and my 2c.
Who says you need a police state? I'm merely talking about adding rules to encourage and enforce order on the forums. And no one wants growth for the sake of growth. A small site that is efficient and has a high number of contributing members will always be better than a large site where the sheer volume of junk posts dilute the contributing members.
Plus, at the end of the day, all anyone really has on the internet is a voice. Thus, the ban remains the most effective method of controlling poor conduct.
It appears you guys have not read the site admins latest announcement...I advice u do
That's fine and all. But does it address the time it takes to actually report problem posts (instead of just complain about them)? Having to PM forum mods that either gave up on your forum, or don't even visit that forum isn't exactly encouraging.
Or will the forums stop becoming void of moderators (like over in EVO 4G land, where I can't remember the last time we had moderator participation besides the banhammer here and there, or moved threads that I report). Will we start seeing more moderator participation?
Of course, my last posts here were worded to spark conversation (and that they did). I am happy to see this latest development, but still feel that it falls short of what is needed. Hopefully there is more in the works.

[REF][Sticky][Must See][First Time XDA][4" Across][Deepest Blacks][Hardest Glass]

As the thread title implies, the purpose of this thread is to create a more comprehensive guide for newcomers and old friends alike. I'm sure everyone is getting sick of flaming noobs and being flamed, but more importantly, I am sick of the huge waste of time we all spend re-answering questions, or just plain looking up threads to point someone in the right direction. I certainly know I could be using my time in a better way. Before posting in the forum you MUST complete the required XDA101 courseware. I will try to keep things light hearted, while still preparing you for the jungle out there. I am adding more elective courses in the future...guiding you through your pubescent journey from total noob to full fledged productive member of the human race. If you only have 5 minutes before your wife beats you over the head for working 8 hours at a computer, then coming home and sitting at the computer, you can skim and just read the bold text.
Lesson 1: What is XDA?
As implied by the name this is technically a Developers forum/community. Now what does that mean? Well first off it means that there is an expectation that if you are here then you want to a) customize your device and b) rather than just installing something that someone packaged you want to understand how it works and maybe even enhance it yourself. XDA was created long before the prevalence of mass market smartphones and as such many of the members are developers and have been here since back in the days when PDA phones were not embraced by the general public because of the expense and complexity. Now we have a flood of new users who are asking not "How can I do this myself" but more like "Give me the quick fix" without caring to understand the process. See if you read the threads then you get to experience the learning process, you see how the issues were investigated and confirmed. Then you get to watch the different attempts at resolution and learn why some failed while others worked. That is called Development.
The noob backlash is coming from users who have walked in the development shoes and is directed mainly at those who don't care for the journey but just want the end result or destination. As a Development Forum we are just as much (if not more) about the journey. I've read so many comments like "I don't have time to read all of the threads" or "I don't care how it works, just that it does". These very statements are contrary to the heart & soul of XDA-Devs and that is why the backlash is so strong. Let me be very clear on this: IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THE JOURNEY THEN YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
XDA-Devs is about developers & hackers helping each other and working together to get the most out of our devices by understanding them better than most. XDA-Devs is not about helping everyone who wants a "Kewl bit of kit" make their phone better than the guy next to him. Now do we go kicking users off who never contribute anything, NO. We tolerate it to an extent. Where the toleration ends is when these users start diluting the usefulness of the forum by repeating the same questions over and over again. There are many friendly developer here that spend a considerable amount of time and energy doling out their knowledge and skills for the betterment of the community...for free at that! Technical consultants regularly charge $100-$200/h for the kind of expert support provided in these forums. If you had to spend $20 (12 minutes of support time) every time you posted to this forum, I guarantee there would be a lot less repeat questions and useless threads. You ask us to understand your position. Well if you want to benefit from our experience and time, then I think it is only fair that you understand our position.
Lesson 2: Rules and Regulations
Before posting you must know and abide by the Rules. Failure to do so could result in a temporary/permanent ban...or in rare occasions castration. Following these rules will create a much happier forum and build strong bones...
#1: Search before postingUse one of our search functions before posting, whether you have a question or something new to share, it's very likely someone already asked that question or shared that news. Since there are many many Epic 4g users and you are just now reading this thread, it is highly unlikely that you are the first person to have experience whatever issue/question/thought you may be wanting to post on the forum. Any member who posts an unnecessary thread, or threads which have already been posted before will be warned, and his/her thread will be closed immediately. Repeated offenders will be castrated. If a neutered member commits a third offense, they will likely be shunned.#2: Member conductLanguage: XDA is a worldwide community. As a result what is ‘ok’ to say in your part of the world may not be ok in someone else’s part of the world. Please think about who is reading what you write. Keep in mind that what you think of as acceptable use of language may not be acceptable to others. Conversely, while reading member posts, remember that word you find offensive may not be to the writer. Tolerance is a two way street.
No Nudity: XDA is used by people of all ages, including minors. It's not acceptable to post nude/pornographic imagery, which includes exposure of the male or female genitalia or of female breasts.
No Flaming: XDA was founded as a group of people sharing information about certain mobile phones. Sharing does not involve virtual yelling (flaming) it does involve working together to solve problems in an environment of mutual respect and understanding. Losing your temper and flaming another member, or group of members, is not acceptable behavior. Flaming while nude is even worse.
No Personal attacks, racial, political and/or religious discussions: XDA is a discussion forum about certain mobile phones. Mobile phones are not racial, political, religious or personally offensive, therefore none of these types of discussions are permitted on XDA.#3: Do not post warezIf a piece of software requires you to pay to use it, either pay or find your cracks and serials somewhere else. We do not accept warez nor do we permit any member to promote or describe ways in which Warez, cracks, serial codes or other means of avoiding payment, can be obtained.#4: Do not spamIf you wish to advertise a product, contact us we provide ads. But do not post it in the forums, it will be removed and you're likely to receive a ban. You are however allowed to sell used goods like your own device, parts of your device or accessories for your device in the marketplace forum, please read the rules there before posting. (This rule includes signatures, if you use a signature it will appear in your post.)
Lesson 3: Searching
So you've made it to lesson 3. You've spent 10 minutes reading this, and you are still waiting for the interracial midget porn link Bing promised. You have two choices...you can either go back to Google or use XDA's in-forum search.1) Use XDA's internal search: http://forum.xda-developers.com/search.php
Or click here...
You can even search just in a particular thread...
2) Use google to find your answers: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=304582
...Gathering course material.
...Gathering course material.
20110108: Added Post and three lessons
reserved reserved reserved
Thank you.. seriously thank you so much for this...
This will be a winner and I might actually be the the first to respond to a topic on this thread haha.
So, I'm not totally nooby, but exactly where I can go to learn absolutely everything about Android (and Ubuntu because Android is based heavily on Ubuntu)? Literally everything. I want to be able to look at a file in the kernel and say, "Hey, I know what that does!" I've been hanging out in the IRC chat, but I'm not learning too much technical detail. I understand how different systems of OSes work, but I'd like to know as much technical detail as I possibly can, right down to the firmware of the parts I'm looking at.
Any suggestions?
EDIT: Shabbypengiun rendered that first line defunct. LOL.
Baby-steps. We need to get the epic forum working smoothly, but I plan on adding a lot more info soon. I think a big topic of interest is using the wiki for references and guides.
This is great and thank you for taking your time to educate.
I'm willing to help and teach others my tricks of the trade but I will not hold your hands. Same goes for alot of other devs. Me personally I spend a couple hours a day on xda trying to help out as much as I can buy it became very repetative to point I'm in s transitanial state of leaving.
It is just sad that I had to make a thread dating my final good byes and no people are finally working towards a change. lets get this **** organized and it would be a better experience for everyone
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
Sweet! I've been a big promoter of a FAQ post to help out the newbies and clean up our threads. Hopefully this will get stickied. Thank you.
Updated "Lesson 3: Searching"
I feel the same way. I'm more than happy to point people in the right direction, but part of learning how to ride a bike is taking off the training wheels. I do feel like it is the moderators and experienced developers that should be held responsible for giving people the tools they need to to be successful, and making it a good experience. As much as I want to post RTFM and GIYF to pretty much 99% of the posts on here because I know that I could have found it with a clever search query, not everybody has that experience, and people are coming from a lot of different skill levels. If the experienced members don't at least make a token effort to set people up to succeed, then we are just making it hard/frustrating on everyone, including ourselves.
ok, i just flashed lesson 3, and now my bluetooth vibrator won't pair. any suggestions?
seriously, though, thanks. this will be a good resource.

Regarding Rights To OUR Intellectual Property Here

In light of what I considered to be a couple of very disturbing developments, I think at this point, a dialogue/debate needs to be opened on what rights/copyrights a contributor has on the intellectual material he/she posts here.
Sakajati was abruptly censored when he suggested that future roms may be administered through a tool bar and not administered through this site.
And the way that BeyondInvisible was driven off this site by the " takers " and not supported by this site. ( the people that stole his new pay/per icons and published them for free, should have been banned). http://forum.xda-developers.com/show...52#post2798052 because he dared suggest that it might be time for all the takers to pony up.
When your work becomes widely successful ala; olinex, jockyw, sakajati, MobileMatt, JCKOTZE, Schap, in the kaiser forums, at what point does toiling around in poverty while you work hard for others for free, become less attractive than selling your work?
Who now owns your work , you, XDA, is it copyrighted? When you decide to take it private what ownership rights does XDA retain?
If you request that XDA remove your work, can they leave an archive of it?
I love this site it is the greatest resource on the net for PDA's but I think these subjects could use a good going over by the Mods and the membership.
Removing SJ's toolbar was NOT censorship, regardless of how you're trying to spin it. We received several complaints from users who don't feel comfortable being required to install a toolbar just to use their favorite ROM... ask any Mod, we all get the emails. The action I took (editing the toolbar links) is the most benign available to Moderators. I could have closed the thread, and moved it to a Mod-only section while the investigation/discussion took place. Instead, I opted to merely edit out the download links.
There is no justification for requiring users to install a toolbar into Internet Explorer (or any other browser in the Windows environment) just so they can have access to a Chef's ROMs.
Now while a decision has not yet been made, I can confidently say that if SJ had promoted his toolbar as a tool to help all users of his ROMs get the latest "breaking" new on development, and NOT required it in order to obtain the password required for flashing, then we [most likely] would have allowed the toolbar to stay linked on XDA.
I think part of the problem here is that many seem to think that they are entitled to what the chefs produce for nothing. The hours spent porting and testing should count for something but for many it is just expected. I for one have no problem contributing what I can when I'm able. It is too bad that more don't do this.
Intellectual property laws protect the inventor/creator rights of ownership to their intellectual property in cyber media. So there is no fear but a concern for any coder that his or her work marketing could be abused or it could be stolen. That is the risk one takes without his or her choice when they share their creations with others.
I also read XDA rules, and it clearly states that soliciting anything for money is prohibited. many cooks are on the border line of asking for money rather encouraging donation for sharing the fruit of their work with others. I do not have a problem with that and believe the majority here share my sentiment. I have a problem however with someone begging for donation without any substantiating efforts, invention or creation to merit the donation solicitation. That being said, I believe SJ was a true gentleman in all of his posts and never infringed on callus donation request; having a tool bar that he feels if XDA was out ( and it was out few times in the past month) as an optional site but not alternative support site that can be accessed where members can help each other is not a bad idea.
We seem to forget sometimes that XDA site was created to help one developer another achieve excellence in the field of e-communication.
so again, I have no problem with SJ promoting his tool bar as long as it is not used to ransom donation for solving issues and i am sure like I said earlier, this is NOT SJ's intention.
That was one of my major points, there " was " no requirement . because there " was no rom ". You struck preemptively to something that had not happened yet, because it might happen in the future. You squashed his right to promote a private project , as many many people do here, because a few ungrateful people complained that in the future they might have to obtain the rom it SJ's way.
Had he stated that the next rom would be available only by joining his website, would you have shut him down?
My question is, at what point does a chef have the right to take his work private, and how , without any interference from this site.
Believe me, I am not trying to "spin " anything against anyone, I have a great deal of respect for you and all you have done for this forum ( we miss your input in the Kaiser world ) I just thought that it was a heavy handed response ( and yes censorship ) to something that hadn't even happened yet.
A simple PM could have alieviated the situation for the time being, while the Mods figured it out. Not a head on erase everything, assault SJ's right to promote his work and wares.
And I would say again, that the integrity of this site depends on people to share openly and honestly without fear of unjustified reprisal, SJ has said that he will not for the time being, take any new roms private. I think that is enough for all his links to be restored. If not, what other definitions of censorship do you have ?
I brought this over from the Hyperdragon thread to here, to discuss.
I just want everyone to know, this has more to do with the big picture than it has to do with sakajati. This has nothing to do with NATF or with jimmy and I am probably not the only one who has a problem with the way it was handled. I am just the one with the big mouth. And we all know that sakajati would never say a word or give anything less than his full cooperation.
I just want someone to tell me not just for SJ, but for the good of the whole community and as a precedent for future complaints of this type, why SJ couldn't have been shot a PM asking what his intentions were, and if they approached a grey area, he could have been informed and he would have cooperated. End of any problem. It is not like there was any urgency, as I said before, there was no requirement because there was no rom.
And if people did over react then it is good for everyone to get a dialogue started. That is what this site is all about.
Thanks guys for doing a great job !
My Friend read this...
Read the Green Parts. The general consensus is IF sakajati REQUIRES people to use the Toolbar to use his ROMs, he is no longer contributing to the XDA ROM Community.
sakajati is ALLOWED and not censored to require this if he so chooses. However the ramifications are, that he would no longer be allowed to advertise his ROM here.
The "common law" rule is, if you post a ROM on XDA, you are contributing to the community and the ROM shall have NO STRINGS attached. No requirement to Give Money, no requirement to have a toolbar installed.
If sakajati wishes to offer his toolbar as a way to stay in "constant contact" with him, then I don't see a problem. But the release of the ROM shall not be contingent on the toolbar. At least not while it is advertised on XDA.
And P.S. lets not get into calling ROMs Intellectual Property, because honestly, ROMs are Microsoft's I.P. All chefs do is tweak, improve and skin ROMs. And I don't mean to take anything away from chefs awesome work by saying that. So saying sakajati's ROM is his I.P. is like saying you taking you Toyota Celica, painting it Pink with Green Racing strips and boring out the engine, makes that car your I.P.
But as NATF has said, no final desicsion has been made, I only type this reply to give full disclosure, to show that our intentions are not to censor.
Since this has all been put to rest, I just have some final thoughts and then I'll shut up.
It was never about XDA's/Mod's disapproval as to what he intended to do, you all are entrusted with the success and smooth running of this site and have every right to administer this site as you see fit, (as I have every right to question why ) And it was not really about SJ, he was just the vehicle of my overall concern about creative people leaving this site because of real and perceived ( do it our way or get out ) disagreements.
I guess I just wanted to know, if people decided to take their projects private,such as a new rom, would they still be welcome here to support older projects or develop new projects here ( that fell within XDA guildlines ) and while supporting their projects, could they in a subtle non-commercial way, direct people to private/financially enhancing projects.
And of course I still object to the way it was handled, that sort of, " we are taking it all down until we decide " way of doing it, is something that happens to noobs that don't know any better. Not to someone who has done as much for, and contributed so much to the Kaiser community as sakajati has done.
The Mods always preach, " if you have a dispute with another member, take it to PM, " Unfortunately this great advise wasn't followed, and I am glad that SJ was not offended by this and did not pack up his toys and go home ( like unfortunately other members have done )
And I am sorry if " I " have offended anyone, that was not my intention. I love this site and think that discussions like this benefit the longevity of this site. I am glad everything has been resolved and I will shut up and go away now
Oh yeah ........one more thing
Tell that to Chip Foose and Orange County Choppers. They take other people's parts, design and tweak and create masterpieces worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. Your telling me a Foose Design isn't intellectual property?
This is not an issue of personal disagreement, it is a violation of our rules of operation. When we see questionable activity, we will always take the action of stopping the activity, contacting the OP, and trying to resolve it quickly. I am sure SJ understands this as well as anyone here that it was nothing personal, and simply just S.O.P. around here. It's a lot easier to take down a problem for a couple days, and then let it back up with an apology than it is to remove it after we've debated.
As for you question about prior contributions, of course anyone is welcome to support anything that they have and continue to offer that is in compliance with our rules here. Nothing even stops a user from selling some stuff, and giving others away. It's just that they can't post the stuff they're selling here, just the donation ware.
I have just a couple points. The Phoenix team has a separate website we use for tracking bugs and other discussion so we don't clutter up this site. However our intent is to foster creativity, open communication and cooperation among users and chefs which we hope results in better products for the users of this site. So don't always think a private website like ours or SJ's is a bad thing.
However, I would like to point out what was only stated one time in the thread--the guts of these roms are the ip of microsoft and htc. Now as chef's we find other bits and pieces that are added--and these are the ip of their creators. Sometimes we contribute our own ip--like skins, icons and very specific know how to get the roms to help our devices perform at peak efficiency. But anyone who would try to take a rom private and sell it, would have some major issues without first getting license to do so from MS, HTC and those other people who own the other intellectual property.
There are many examples of apps that were developed by talented people here that have gone commercial. Those apps are still discussed and linked to here because they all have trial periods. There is nothing wrong with commercializing your own ip..The wrong comes when you commercialize ip that you don't own or haven't properly license.
So let's continue a great tradition of creativity. I believe that this site is the primary reason that HTC and microsoft keep trying to make a better operating system. This site is where many ideas come from. This site gives the OS life beyond the normal experience.
Pfft Those Posers
some confused thinking here -
A cook can ask for a contribution for his time but there is no way he can claim that a cooked rom is his IPR because it's belongs to someone else start with - no licence to modify has been granted!
Now creating programs from scratch, that's a different issue and how they want to deal with payment is upto them.

Banning Policy Revealed - My take....

I've been a member now for some time however I don't post to often. I read the new policies that XDA has come clean with and would like to take a moment to express my feelings about it. Over the course of the last few months I turned to other forums; not because they were any better and the people on here were not helpful, but because of the "internal" struggles between Devs, Moderators, and Administrators. I truly didn't know what to believe and when it came down to my having to read about it within every post, I simply moved on to other forums where I felt this underlying issue was not at the forefront. I am so thankful to all the people who are involved in this site, developing ROM's and applications, moderating, and answering all the stupid and repetitive questions that (to their credit) are typically answered with kindness and direction. I think clear cut rules need to be enforced and I'm glad to see the site take on a "fair" stance with serious repercussions in place for folks that come onto the site and disgrace the people that are on here, working their butts off for people like me that are trying to learn, to understand, and who are looking for a "person" that can not only get answers, but provide inspiration to becoming more involved, educated, and contributing back to the community. To the admins of this site, keep up the great work. You've got at least one big supporter here!
Kind words, thanks
Certainly, I've always operated in a manner similar to what is described in that (at least AFAIK), in that I take no prisoners when it comes to idiots or trolls.
I think there's an advantage to these issues not being at the forefront, but also an advantage to the other side, where there's no secret about how things work. This is a developer site, it's advantageous in a way to let developers be aware of what we stand for, which is development!

XDA needs a Facelift to stay future-proof. Any suggestions and ideas are very welcome

Hi All Dear XDA Members,
As most of you will know, I'm XDA addict and active member who started a lot of threads in order to try to keep XDA as organized as possible (see: the Q&A/T thread template: https://forum.xda-developers.com/sho...95&postcount=4, which also contains the links to the Index project and the Ask Away help thread). Yet, I noticed that XDA has become so huge that it's grown out of it's "jacket". It became a forum which looks like a "forest which can not been seen because of all the trees". Newcomers can hardly find their way in this forest, ( They still keep registering to our forum but hardly post anything, let alone that they will start a thread) even more experienced users have difficulties or stop develeloping new ROM's and/or Threads. The layout of XDA is, speaking in modern terms, old fashioned at this very moment and if there will be no facelift within a short while, XDA is IMHO doomed to follow certain social media, who are loosing a lot of followers at this very moment. If you are familiar with social media, you know exactly which media I'm referring too. So, that's the reason I started this thread: How can we resuscitate XDA, cause that's what's needed, to be and stay future proof? IMHO, XDA is one of the, if not the, most important Smartphone forum and it should stay that forever, but changes are needed to achieve this. One of the changes could be a chat function, but most of all there needs to become a new a structure of how XDA is build up untill now. I'm convinced that the XDA staff is aware of this and working very hard to keep XDA future-proof. As it is now, it will be very hard to compete with the modern social media applications. I'm a diehard fan of XDA and that's why I started this thread. Making XDA future proof will be a hell of a job and therefore the staff of XDA can use IMO input from members, like you and me. Just plain and simple: I ask you all to come with information, suggestions and ideas how to make XDA future proof. Help the staff of XDA in this huge project of keeping it alive , kicking and well. Vbulletin is not the most ideal platform anymore, we need something else (see Reddit, etc).
kindest reards, kuzibri
BTW1: I do not suggest that XDA should use the Reddit platform or something the like
BTW2: A more social media approach would and could benefit XDA in the near future.
BTW3: I'm a great fan of the XDA Labs app for Android. Maybe an idea as a starting point?
Can you give some ideas on what can be done in terms of the layout?
This forum has grown MASSIVELY since it was first started back in 2002. I think we now have over 6.6 million members. The vbulletin forum platform was never really intended to handle such a large amount of content or userbase.
We've been on the vbulletin forum platform for a long time now. We've made a large amount of custom modifications, plugins, and tweaks, in order to add a lot of what you see in the forums today. A lot of it is the things you don't see behind the scenes. The massive amounts of custom coding that has been done, that cannot be easily transferred to other systems.
Of course we are aware that the forums are at breaking point in terms of capacity of both content and users. And of course other platform configurations are becoming more popular, with sites such as Reddit. But making a switch to another platform would be a massive massive undertaking. It's not like we can just copy and paste the database.
We are aware that this type of platform is aging, and needs to be kept a little more up to date. And I know the owners are well aware of all of this. It's not that they don't care. They do, more than anything. XDA is their baby, they are heavily invested in it, and they want it to keep growing and to remain the world's premier Smartphone development forums.
I don't know much personally, but I do know there are long term plans to look at updating or switching platforms, to better accommodate the sheer amount of users, and the large amount of valuable content. it will come, but due to the sheer scale of the task, it's going to be a very long term project for the owners I'd say.
I have some ideas which are not ready yet to be posted/published, that's why I started this thread, hoping to get some usefull information and ideas.
BTW, it's not only the layout that needs an update, but the entire structure of XDA in order to stay future proof.
kindest regards, kuzibri
We already have a design for the 2018 template completed. We begun the implementation earlier this year but had to pause because we had to work on other things, such as XDA Feed and yes a new chat product we're working on. We're trying to hire a new full-time developer to help us on the 2018 template, which we expect to take about six months (it's pretty involved).
yes a chat product is needed
The messaging part is very complicted for me till now
Search could be better. It's hard to find stuff. The way forums are arranged is a mess too; one for questions, and one with a sticky marked "no questions" right above all the questions! Note: nobody reads stickies, and policing of questions is poor so they stick around long enough to make it look like perhaps questions are welcome after all! On a thread the navigation choices are bizarre to say the least: a button for page 1,2,3,11,> (whatever that is) and last. Well...it's going to be last every time, isn't it? So you can get to the latest posts on a thread you're interested in. Really, this is a pre-Stack Exchange site; possibly learn from them in terms of allowing users to vote threads/comments up/down to give moderators less work (ie they can just skim the worst offenders).
(Apologies if you were just talking about tweaking a css file to change hover colours or something)
We welcome reports about anything violating rules, but also threads out of place. You don't even need to report every question in a general thread, if there's a lot, you can report one and make a note in the report that the whole subsection needs some cleaning. Or, report them all, up to you.
We really rely on members to point stuff out to us, cause we do have a limited sized volunteer mod staff, so we can't see everything out there.
Hi my dear friend,
You're absolutely right. There is a lot of mess going around on XDA and I can understand that you cannot see everything due to limited mod staff. A suggestion might be to make the process to become a Mod easier than it is now. Active and good RC's can become a Mod, IMHO, without the process they have to go through now, which in a lot of cases leads to RC's not appointing for the Mod's status. Instead of going to the Mod's process, I would suggest that you give and explain to RC's what they have to do what a Mod needs to do to become a Mod, just my 2 cents. Of course there is a limitation in this suggestion: the minimum time for an RC to become a Mod more or less automatically should be, IMO, at least two years in which he/she proved his/hers additional value to XDA judged by the Mod's staff. In this way, you will get far more Mod's and XDA will be cleaner than ever.
kindest regards, kuzibri
BTW, It's obvious IMO that the Mod's staff decides which RC is fit to become a Mod without going to the whole process or not, let that be clear.
BTW2, I'm personally do not have the intention to become a Mod in this way (unless your Mod's staff decides so), but I have two suggestions/recommandation regarding two persons of whom I think they are very capable of doing this: #Robbie P and #sd_shadow. They are both very critical and XDA adepts.
as always you are too kind
a couple of years ago I would have liked to have been a moderator, but right now I don't know I have time right now
Sent from my sailfish using XDA Labs
Hi my dearest friend,
I realy think that you are perfectly fit to be a moderator, but it's of course up to you. I just suggested a new way of appointing Mod's and recommended you and Robbie'for the job. I really think that good and active RC's can become a Mod without going to the whole XDA process that's needed to become one. They are very short of Mod's, so make the process easier for active RC's.
BTW, I have all the time in the world since I retired a few months ago!!
kindest regards, kuzibri