Related
Regardless of any calibration method i try, i can never get an accurate battery reading. (Before i continue, ill point out that every app ive used to check my battery health has said "good")
Ive tried calibrating with/without the calibration app. Ive tried just deleting the batterystats via rootexplorer. ive tried calibrating before/after cycling. nothing seems to work.
the reason i know its not working, is because i will calibrate/cycle. lets say ill start a day with 100%. ill unplug my phone, leave for work, and use my phone moderately to feel out the battery drain. then at some point, ill plug it into my charger at work......just now, for example, after three hours of use my phone went from 100%-71%....i went to charge it, and once i plugged it in my percentage display changed from 71% to 63%!!! my percentage will constantly jump up and down throughout the day when i plug/unplug my phone.
anyone else experience this?
PS - its not ROM or kernel, its been happening to me for the last 2-3 months...ive flashed several roms/kernels in that timespan, and have ODINed at least once.
PPS - Ill also add that when i unplug my phone to start my day (after its been charging all night), it will stay at 100% for about 30-45min, at which point it will then start draining on an average of 1%/10min. i feel this may have something to do with it.....does it have something to do with me calibrating at too high of a voltage??
Well as for your inaccurate battery readings, i would suggest that you to odin back to stock and. Leave the phone to charge for 4hours(the time my phone takes to charge from 0-100%)then use the battery calibration app or wipe battery stats via cwm. And as for the draining it might be corrected after you calibrate it.
I know this coz I have experienced this in the past and i'd lose around 1% every 20-25mins now.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
stanton93 said:
Well as for your inaccurate battery readings, i would suggest that you to odin back to stock and then use the battery calibration app or wipe battery stats via cwm. And as for the draining it might be corrected after you calibrate it.
I know this coz I have experienced this in the past and i'd lose around 1% every 20-25mins now.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
please read OP
UPDATE: i just rebooted my phone at 56%....it booted up and it displayed 24%......wtf is this
You said you've ODIN'd like once.... dude, if you aren't going to be cool with suggestions, esp the most obvious ones, not sure what it is you expect from us.
Should I hit thanks? JK
Call T-Mo and tell them and get a new battery.... they WILL give you one.
the best way to calibrate ur phone and its worked perfect for me. Charge it to 100% and then unplug it and as soon as unplug it go to sgs tools and run apply script and inside apply script there is delete battery stats. Click on that and it will take less then 10 sec and ur battery will be running great. Now this works great on my phone i hope it works on urs nicely.
At your PPS: This is completely normal and expected battery behaviour. It SHOULD happen. Here is why
http://phandroid.com/2010/12/25/you...is-lying-to-you-and-its-not-such-a-bad-thing/
Please read this article fully to understand why it happens and why it SHOULD happen. As for your plug/unplug deviations...I have seen those but it has rarely been more than 2-3% difference which is around the normal range. It sounds like a bad calibration issue to me but then again I can't be sure, especially if you said you have done a calibration correctly. You can try a new battery like the poster above me suggests.
s15274n said:
You said you've ODIN'd like once.... dude, if you aren't going to be cool with suggestions, esp the most obvious ones, not sure what it is you expect from us.
Should I hit thanks? JK
Call T-Mo and tell them and get a new battery.... they WILL give you one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So if i clearly state in the OP that it was happening to me before and after ive ODINed, and someone says you should ODIN...thats not a lazy suggestion?
or if someone says to try calibrating, when I stated several times in the OP that ive tried multiple calibration methods...thats not a lazy suggestion?
What i expect is if ive pointed out that ive already taken troubleshooting steps, then dont suggest those troubleshooting steps. no one is forcing a response, so if you dont know, simply dont answer. dont just read the title, skim the post, and give programmed suggestions.
theres absolutely nothing wrong with trying to seek out answers other than the conventional ones. ODIN and reflash are the laziest responses......granted, they will often fix problems, but there may be other ways to solve certain issues.
The goal of my OP was to see if anyone else had experienced it, and if someone responded affirmatively, i would ask them about their calibration methods and we could brainstorm. I would much rather seek out problem-solving knowledge before resorting to ODIN/reflash/new battery/new device...which teach nothing.
movieaddict said:
the best way to calibrate ur phone and its worked perfect for me. Charge it to 100% and then unplug it and as soon as unplug it go to sgs tools and run apply script and inside apply script there is delete battery stats. Click on that and it will take less then 10 sec and ur battery will be running great. Now this works great on my phone i hope it works on urs nicely.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is typically the method i use. i usually let it charge for an hour or so beyond when it reaches 100%, just to ensure i have a full charge. this has not worked for me. i also take it a step further and let my phone discharge all the way until it dies, let it charge overnight when powered off, then ill wipe the battery stats first thing when i wake up.
}{Alienz}{ said:
At your PPS: This is completely normal and expected battery behaviour. It SHOULD happen. Here is why
http://phandroid.com/2010/12/25/you...is-lying-to-you-and-its-not-such-a-bad-thing/
Please read this article fully to understand why it happens and why it SHOULD happen. As for your plug/unplug deviations...I have seen those but it has rarely been more than 2-3% difference which is around the normal range. It sounds like a bad calibration issue to me but then again I can't be sure, especially if you said you have done a calibration correctly. You can try a new battery like the poster above me suggests.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i will definitely read this...this is something ive always been very curious about
}{Alienz}{ said:
At your PPS: This is completely normal and expected battery behaviour. It SHOULD happen. Here is why
http://phandroid.com/2010/12/25/you...is-lying-to-you-and-its-not-such-a-bad-thing/
Please read this article fully to understand why it happens and why it SHOULD happen. As for your plug/unplug deviations...I have seen those but it has rarely been more than 2-3% difference which is around the normal range. It sounds like a bad calibration issue to me but then again I can't be sure, especially if you said you have done a calibration correctly. You can try a new battery like the poster above me suggests.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this was an extremely informative read. it doesnt shed light on all of my problems...but it definitely explains the longer battery life upon unplugging in the morning. my only question is how am i getting that extra juice when im not actually "bump charging"...i just plug it in when i go to bed, and unplug it when i wake up.....maybe my phone doesnt stop sucking in a charge the moment it hits 100%?
i agree with what he says about not paying too much attention to your battery.....but when its bouncing up and down by 20% increments, thats cause for concern haha. im going to calibrate one more time tonight, and i i get similar results i will swap batteries with another vibrant user.
do you guys suggest deep cycling, before or after wiping battery stats? (or should i just wipe stats at a full charge, and not deep cycle at all) >>> there seems to be different opinions on deep cycling throughout XDA
I have had a similar issue. After flashing Roms, plyugging and unplugging it was jumping by a good 10-15%. This turned out to be a simple bad calibration. Normal jumping should be up to 2%, more than that usually indicates bad calibration. Granted, normally nowdays, mine does not jump at all.
I recommend cycling it fully empty. That means, go ahead and drain to 0. Then let it shut off. Then turn it on again. Keep turning it on till it STOPs being able to turn on. Then charge it completely. Don't charge overnight as that will charge to 90-95% as the article suggested. Charge it while you're awake so you see when it hits 100%. It's even preffered if you charged it while the phone is off. After it hits 100%, give it another hour on the charger. You can even bump charge to ensure it hits full charge. To bump charge, after it's full, disconnect and reconnect the charger every 20 minutes for that last hour you're charging. Then unplug it, boot into recovery using the 3 buttons. Wipe the battery stats from there. Boot normally into your ROM. See if it is still jumping by 20%. Worst case scenario should be a 5% jump. Let us know what happens.
^ See, there is my confusion... there is a great example of how to calibrate, but the OP seems to get in a tiffy for offering up a suggestion he has done (calibrating). I'd also be cautious about the bump charging as that will really hurt the battery. I'm not one to try and get something for free, but why not just get a new battery?
s15274n said:
^ See, there is my confusion... there is a great example of how to calibrate, but the OP seems to get in a tiffy for offering up a suggestion he has done (calibrating). I'd also be cautious about the bump charging as that will really hurt the battery. I'm not one to try and get something for free, but why not just get a new battery?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I support the new battery notion too. It's FREE.
Drain your phone til its dead.... charge it up full.... run a battery calibration app on the market and let it die fully again then charge to 100 percent one last time... good to go!
You might even try using a differnet battery
TopShelf10 said:
Regardless of any calibration method i try, i can never get an accurate battery reading. (Before i continue, ill point out that every app ive used to check my battery health has said "good")
Ive tried calibrating with/without the calibration app. Ive tried just deleting the batterystats via rootexplorer. ive tried calibrating before/after cycling. nothing seems to work.
the reason i know its not working, is because i will calibrate/cycle. lets say ill start a day with 100%. ill unplug my phone, leave for work, and use my phone moderately to feel out the battery drain. then at some point, ill plug it into my charger at work......just now, for example, after three hours of use my phone went from 100%-71%....i went to charge it, and once i plugged it in my percentage display changed from 71% to 63%!!! my percentage will constantly jump up and down throughout the day when i plug/unplug my phone.
anyone else experience this?
Topshelf, I have run into these problems, There are a couple of things that cause the battery to be wonky.
1st Samsung has the battery set not to 100% but actually less (95-98%) so when it is charged and reads 100% as soon as you unplug you get a immediate reading of 95-98% (nice huh?)
The dev/mods, and others have tried to rectify this. No one has found an exact fix for this. On thing I have found that does help is to charge to 100% then unplug and then plug into the computer and recharge back to 100% (the lower milliamp off the computer seems to allow you to get to a higher percentage). Then calibrate. Now when you do that the battery calibration/battery widget/and phone All will read more close (for me +/-3%). This is one of the issues you raised.
The other is the battery drain, with some of the custom roms the gallery seems to one of the culprits, mms sometimes stays on with others and some others that are in TSR but instead of being asleep they are taking resources.
I have used systems panel to trouble shoot and that has helped me. I think you may want to ask Explodingboy70, Roman or whitehawkx, they know more on this and maybe can help.
Hope you get it solved......... stay with it you will........... I did.........
PS the mv setting for the battery is supposed to be 4200mv mine never gets above 4196mv
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, for the first week I had my galaxy s2 my battery would be like 75% after low usage. Now after following the root guide. Then updating it to entropies DD I have terrible life. It seems like even on light usage I lose over 10% an hour. I can't say for sure when it happened. I want to say it wasn't immediatly after the root, but within a week of it.
Here's a pic of the battery life:
Well there would be a pic if I had enough post to post a pic. Anyways it shows my android OS using 71%
It shows that I have a 41% charge at 7:15pm after an hour charge from noon to 1pm that brought it upto 75%. The only thing I've done is text the wife half a dozen times.
Is there anything else I need to log or post to help troubleshoot this?
I love having my phone rooted, and I would hate to have to flash back to stock if I can't get my battery issue lined out.
devlmaycry81 said:
Ok, for the first week I had my galaxy s2 my battery would be like 75% after low usage. Now after following the root guide. Then updating it to entropies DD I have terrible life. It seems like even on light usage I lose over 10% an hour. I can't say for sure when it happened. I want to say it wasn't immediatly after the root, but within a week of it.
Here's a pic of the battery life:
Well there would be a pic if I had enough post to post a pic. Anyways it shows my android OS using 71%
It shows that I have a 41% charge at 7:15pm after an hour charge from noon to 1pm that brought it upto 75%. The only thing I've done is text the wife half a dozen times.
Is there anything else I need to log or post to help troubleshoot this?
I love having my phone rooted, and I would hate to have to flash back to stock if I can't get my battery issue lined out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nothing to troubleshoot really. You probably have most of the known battery draining apps runing on your phone. (listed on another thread)
I would suggest you flash a ROM like Unnamed that removes all the bloatware and all these battery hogging apps. I would also get an app like Setcpu to set the cpu to conservative to save even more battery.
Good luck!
Entropy's DD already sets the CPU governor to conservative. Anyways, post a pic of your battery usage (by uploading it then linking it), and if your phone has blue bars all over awake, then you know you have a wakelock problem. Search for the known battery drainers thread and see if you have apps there, also remove all widgets and add them back one by one to see if any of those affect battery life.
Battery
It's just common sense, before rooting a phone like the i777 it's not much fun spending a
lot of time playing with it.
But after it's rooted and we have access to the CWM Recovery ready to do our bidding
we all get carried away by all the fun and interesting things we can do with the phone
if you get my drift! (and it's easy to get carried away with a phone like ours)
I just don't understand how so many people can say that "My battery is great" or
complaining that "My battery only lasts xx amount of hours" with a straight face
because just like any other battery operated electronic device, our phone's battery
consumption is a lot more variable than the weather!
Without conducting tests like starting with a fully charged battery keeping the screen
on until the phone goes dead or playing non-stop music until the battery dies there is
no real accurate way to test battery life unless it's done under labratory conditions.
Otherwise all we are doing when talking about battery life is a big guessing game!
Even little things like the ambient room temperature and the amount of moisture in the
air have an effect on battery life in all electronic devices even if they are powered off.
In other words, simply rooting a phone and doing nothing else has no effect on the life of the battery.
Hey I think you should try to wipe your battery stats in recovery after ah full charge cycle ..then let it discharge then fully charge it again. It worked for me after flashing cm7 on my evo.
ACTUALLY HERES THE LINK HERE
Recalibrating Your Battery Stats...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=765656
Hope that helped???
Battery stats should not be wiped on these phones. There are threads that discuss why not to do that in this forum.
Sent from my páhhōniē
gr8hairy1 said:
Battery stats should not be wiped on these phones. There are threads that discuss why not to do that in this forum.
Sent from my páhhōniē
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
Entropy has repeated it in detail time and time again why there's no advantage to doing it and while it works fine on other phones, it doesn't with ours. If I can find a link of his, I'll post it later.
... I just have some things I'd like a little assistance with if possible.
1. Because the battery has over double the capacity of the stock battery, I wasn't expecting even close to sensible battery reports from Android. However, I wasn't expecting it to last for a long time, drain at a rational rate, and then halt at 1% for 6 or so hours. I have no way of predicting how much time I have left when I reach that 1% mark, and it literally just shuts off the phone without warning, as if I just unplugged the battery. Is there any way to adjust anything so that It properly reports the battery charge value from 100-1%?
2. I have no idea how long to charge this phone. Obviously the stats of the stock battery are hardcoded into the OS; after the phone shuts off, I'll put it on to charge, it will enter the charge-only-mode (which is weird to me in itself, thought the custom bootstrap overwrote this?), and it will only take a couple hours to reach 100%. This is about how long it took for me to charge the stock battery. Anyway to have the phone properly display the current charge while in its charge only state? I'm afraid of not properly cycling the battery if I don't charge it long enough, or even worse, damaging the battery by charging too long. After it hits 100%, assuming I am correct in that it still needs to charge after reaching that mark, will the phone even accept more power from the charger? As silly as it might sound, that sorta made sense to me. If the phone is incorrectly measuring the battery at that point, shouldn't it cease to charge after reaching what it thinks/I] is a proper 100%?
3. If there is no way to fix the issue in #1, I read somewhere you can measure the voltage of a battery and know when the phone is fully charged or about to die based on that voltage? At least I think it was voltage.
I've calibrated, don't bother asking. That has never worked, even on stock; I'm convinced its a myth, but that's a discussion for another thread.
By the way, Eclipse ROM's battery life sucks. Anyone stating otherwise is misinformed. The best battery life I ever experienced was on stock 2.2, followed very closely by Liberty 3 ROM. I have no idea why Eclipse has such terrible battery drain, though I would be interested if anyone knows. I've gone through two phones, their respective batteries, and now my third battery, the monstrosity that is the 3200mah, so please don't bother trying to convince me that Eclipse has better battery than some alternatives. It sucks. I'll be downgrading back to 2.3.4 and flashing Liberty right after I finish writing this.
Thanks to anyone who can help!
Also, I've been following the Droid X2 bootloader status for like 6 months. Realistically, how close are we to being able to flash a new kernel? An I'm pretty sure we can't crack to bootloader anyways. I remember calculating the possible combinations of keys Motorola could have used; it was a massive number. In that case, how would hijacking the boot process allow us to use Cyanogen? If we can't crack the bootloader and then flash the CM kernel, wouldn't it just be a glorified version of Eclipse? I don't even like Eclipse. Lawl.
I'm done typing. My sexy computer comes tomorrow; crossfire 6990's here I come! Need to get to sleep so I can all-night-hardcore-no-life play BF3 with Shibby tomorrow. I hope someone on these forums knows who that is.
You need to boot into clockwork recovery. Go to advanced and hit clear battery stats. after that fully charge and discharge your battery 4 times and that should fix you up.
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA App
Oh sorry. Didn't realize cw hasn't been released for your phone yet. Have you tried deleting the batterystats.bin file manually. I believe there is also an app for this on the market.
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA App
I have the same battery that you do with this phone, although I don't use the phone anymore.
You can NOT make Android read the battery correctly. You are in the dark.
Calibrating will NOT, as you've already found out, fix battery reporting.
I used to gauge when it was going to die by looking at mV left. Around 3500mV is when it would die. Get Battery Indicator from market to find out mV.
Oh, and: 4.2V = 4200mV etc
hampsterblade said:
Oh sorry. Didn't realize cw hasn't been released for your phone yet. Have you tried deleting the batterystats.bin file manually. I believe there is also an app for this on the market.
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I appreciate the understanding you have of my situatition, for, clearly, you have thoroughly read what I wrote.
donlad said:
I have the same battery that you do with this phone, although I don't use the phone anymore.
You can NOT make Android read the battery correctly. You are in the dark.
Calibrating will NOT, as you've already found out, fix battery reporting.
I used to gauge when it was going to die by looking at mV left. Around 3500mV is when it would die. Get Battery Indicator from market to find out mV.
Oh, and: 4.2V = 4200mV etc
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I figured as much. For a multi-billion dollar investment, you would think Google and its partners wouldn't overlook something so silly, not to mention locking our ****ing bootloader.
Anywho, I'll try out that app. Is 4.2V a full charge for the 3200?
Thanks!
This is a known issue with the droids. Some have had success with the batteryleft widget which can learn the full capacity of the battery.
Also not googles fault. This one is only Motorola's issue.
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA App
Hi everyone who see's this. I have recently changed battery to a new one as my old one broke. Since then, my battery seems to go down fairly quick when im using it but uses hardly anything when on standby. When it goes down, I leave it and the percentage goes upwards abit, such as from 100% down to 40% then up to about 65%. This annoys me because I dont know what my real percentage is. Does anyone know why this happens and does anyone know any suggestions? Would like it if anyone could help Thanks
danielk0302 said:
Hi everyone who see's this. I have recently changed battery to a new one as my old one broke. Since then, my battery seems to go down fairly quick when im using it but uses hardly anything when on standby. When it goes down, I leave it and the percentage goes upwards abit, such as from 100% down to 40% then up to about 65%. This annoys me because I dont know what my real percentage is. Does anyone know why this happens and does anyone know any suggestions? Would like it if anyone could help Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats what happens when you charge your phone . ROFL... Jokes aside it it prety simple.
Basicaly (Very Basic) the Batter level is monitored by checking voltage levels by some fancy hardware. now when you have a high current(power) draw for a a short burst the battery voltage will drop but recover once the phone goes back onto a lower power mode. some batteries recover fast. some recover slowly.
now most of this will get filtered but sometimes it is too much for the chips so they say it was lower than it really was.
my phone does this all the time. and the correct battery level is what ever it is saying at the time it is just that the battery has recovered from the high current draw. (so has more "capacity" left)
hope that wasn't too confusing...
Pvy.
Ha that made me laugh, I never thought thats what happens when it charges ;D
Thanks, it never used to really happen with my old battery but as long as its not fully abnormal, i wont delete battery stats or anything.
BTW nice to see you back, I havnt seen your posts in a while. I liked and used the TEAM rom, what happened with it? Are you working on new ROMS for new phones now so theres no room for X10? Thanks ;D
danielk0302 said:
Ha that made me laugh, I never thought thats what happens when it charges ;D
Thanks, it never used to really happen with my old battery but as long as its not fully abnormal, i wont delete battery stats or anything.
BTW nice to see you back, I havnt seen your posts in a while. I liked and used the TEAM rom, what happened with it? Are you working on new ROMS for new phones now so theres no room for X10? Thanks ;D
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm always around been to busy to do anything. Have been helping ppl out where I can with there mods / Roms. Not had time for our own stuff yet. thanks for the kind words.
Pvy
Sent from my TEAM Powered Arc S
Hey guys
On the weekends I'm usually home and I do use my phone quite a bit..but I'm mostly sitting at my computer doing so.
Is it better for me to keep the phone plugged in or should I be letting it drain? I heard that large drain cycles are not good for the battery and will wear it out faster...I've learnt that with my original Samsung battery...I have an extended one, now.
I've searched around...some people say one thing, others say the opposite...so what's the deal, really?
Thanks,
Elliott
The battery is desinged to be drained, you can always use your device plugged in when you are about to run outta juice.
Sent from the little guy
Right...but if I'm going to be texting constantly on the phone...is it better to just leave the phone on charge while I'm using it, or keep draining it/charging it back up?
As I said, use it.
If battery is low, just charge it while you do.
Sent from the little guy
Thanks.
Anyone else have any info on this?
Elliott
Bump
There was an article on XDA a while ago about the battery in mobile phones.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1168036
Summary:
It doesnt matter if you keep it plugged in or not. It will do no damage to it.
What you shouldn't do with this kind of battery is draining it to 0% like some people suggest. In fact it is better to keep it charged above 40% to maximize the lifetime of your battery.
Here is also an other thread about it.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1914417
Thanks for the threads.
The first and 2nd threads you posted through, seem to contradict each other.
The first thread said
Hence constantly recharging a lithium ion battery does not shorten the battery life more than normal usage would. Avoid letting it sit on empty for too long; instead, keep it charged-up if you can.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The second thread said:
Avoid keeping your battery at 100%: Every source I referenced for this guide said the same thing about keeping your battery at a full capacity, but oranageinks.com explains [...]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol, we gotta get a lithium battery Ph.D here
I never let my battery die on me, I only do it once to get rid of fuel gauge (although some say that it fixs it on it own after three days or so) whenever I flash a new ROM.
I always let it frain to 15 % or something like that.
Starholdest said:
Thanks for the threads.
The first and 2nd threads you posted through, seem to contradict each other.
The first thread said
The second thread said:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It doesnt really contradict each other. They warn you about heat that is bad for your battery when charged to 100%. Keeping your phone at 100% in a hot enviroment does more damage then having it at 40% in the same enviroment. The same applies to running an app that keeps your cpu running constantly thus heating up your phone.. But in normal circumstances it shouldnt do harm.
It sounds like someone is obsessed about their battery not being at 100% all the time.
Charging and discharging your battery shortens it's life. This is the way it was designed.
Chill, it's just a phone, not an artificial heart
Sent from my digital submersible hovercraft.
Lennyz1988 said:
It doesnt really contradict each other. They warn you about heat that is bad for your battery when charged to 100%. Keeping your phone at 100% in a hot enviroment does more damage then having it at 40% in the same enviroment. The same applies to running an app that keeps your cpu running constantly thus heating up your phone.. But in normal circumstances it shouldnt do harm.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I think they clearly contradict each other...one says to keep your battery charged up, the other says not to keep it at 100%...
I understand about the heat degrading batteries...but that's another discussion completely.
Anyone else have any opinion?
f-r said:
It sounds like someone is obsessed about their battery not being at 100% all the time.
Charging and discharging your battery shortens it's life. This is the way it was designed.
Chill, it's just a phone, not an artificial heart
Sent from my digital submersible hovercraft.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't call myself obsessed...I'm just wondering if leaving it plugged in for a good portion of the day will reduce it's life. Because I did that with my original Samsung battery and it's barely usable for me now...just wondering if leaving it plugged in for long periods of time diminished it's life over a year and a half.
I think batteries don't like to be plugged all the time.
For what i've read in the last 4 years nobody knows exactly what's good and what's not for them.
You be the judge.
Sent from the little guy