Related
Hi all,
I read the thread about M$ that wants xda-developers to take the htc roms from ftp. One more time M$ disappoint their customers that just want to take the max from their htc pockets (We paid 500€ more or less for a pocket, I thing is legitimately that we want to take the max from our pocket).
So I think that htc roms must be available in torrents using public trackers and publish in mininova.org, meganova.org or other torrents sites available. If everyone seed some roms they will always be available for public.
What you think about this?
I am down... just don;t know how to package them up or else I would. I get a new pc this week and have though of making my other one a file store...
Hi,
We must build a private network for Forum users, We can use KDX a multi platform peer to peer client/server app, it is like Hotline.
Slimsaturn: BUY A MAC OR USE LINUX BOYCOTT MICROSOFT
Regards,
Taguapire.
boycott microsoft!
i was thinking of upgrading to Vista. now i changed my mind! u dont piss off your customers that supporting u!
Since i have a hermes and i live for xda, I'm backing up the ftp and i'll store it. Possibly setup ftp access for requested users.
I think we should tell M$ to ........................................KISS OUR A$$..............................OUR...................................."ENTIRE......A$$"...............That's what "I" think............................
That being said........ start backing up the ROMS etc...... we'll figure out how to get them out to users.......... if you can download the things from HTC.......why does M$ have their panties in a bunch?????????? Sheeesssshhhhhh what a bunch of CRY BABIES!!!!!!!!
vpu2....OUT!!!!
Why is it that Big corporations treat their customers like dirt!
Its the enthusiast that keeps them making money! I am constantly "selling" the merits of M$ powered PPC's to anyone who will listen, I am in the IT industry and have in the last 3 or so years been responsible for over 50 sales of M$ based devices to customers and friends. Because of XDA Dev I will buy a WM device again and again. But if M$ plays the Bully and forces the demise of XDA Dev I will have no reason to by a WM device again. I will then look into other devices such as Sony etc.
I'm sure you are all the same as me, its the the amazing endless customization options that XDA and WM devices offer you that keeps you coming back, without that its no better than any other device.
But sadly Big Corporations don't care, even if we could get a petition signed by 10 000 users they would just shrug and say "So what, there are millions of other users"
What I would like to know is what possible damage can be done by having M$ roms available to M$ customers. Its not like someone can make his own device and then download a rom here. If you use a rom from XDA Dev then you own a M$ device! and you have paid M$ for the rom, Why then are you not allowed to make it better!
No if/when we can get a working Linux solution we can once and for all "dump" M$.
Maybe HTC will bring out a device running Linux in the near future.
Yours in Hope
Jules
As annoying as it is this is the right thing for MS to do to protect themselves.
If it was a little company would you feel less angry?
The only reason you feel angry is due to them being a multi billion dollar corporation beating down on "the little guys" aka us.
How are they loosing revenue from XDA Dev?
If they were charging users for updated OS versions then I could see their point of view. But I can't see how XDA Dev can have any negative impact on M$. If I am missing something here then please inform me.
Jules
The way I see it, allowing people to down load different ROM's hurts no one. Al they are trying to do is fix up the defective software. If MS spent more time fixing the defects in their software and less time with lawyers people would not need look around for other ROM's. There is prima facie a very powerful case for a class action against MS for the defects in WM5.
We are talking about tracking down a solution to hacking WM6 to run on a Hermese for starters and I know they will charge for that.
ZaJules said:
How are they loosing revenue from XDA Dev?
If they were charging users for updated OS versions then I could see their point of view. But I can't see how XDA Dev can have any negative impact on M$. If I am missing something here then please inform me.
Jules
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Frustrating thing is its not about profit etc... i read that IP (Intellectual Property) law in US states that if you knowingly let ANYONE (not just in US) use your IP without correct license you stand to let anyone do that. Since you have willingly let someone get away with IP infringment you couldnt claim say if the vista source code was used without permission!??
A simple agreement between xda-devs and MS would get passed this but i guess the boffs in the MS law department arent willing to listen. We are possibly the best source of FREE testing and debugging they have!
And may i remind everyone we have ALL paid for a WM license, this is not (as some idiot has said in the "sign the petition" thread) software piracy, it is FREELY available from operators and HTC!
Well, for what I read M$ says that many customers are pissing of their mobile phone providers with roms that are unsupported by that provider.
And for that reason, they say........, roms must not be available here.....
It's fine we can put them elsewhere.
This saves the forum from being shut down or having any legal problems at all. This ensures a long lasting community without having to go underground.
suineg said:
We are talking about tracking down a solution to hacking WM6 to run on a Hermese for starters and I know they will charge for that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will pay for an upgrade, but if they don't make it available I have no moral problem of using a hacked version for the Hermes. It's not that M$ will loose any revenue if the product isn't available to buy. Not having VM6 will not make me buy a new phone faster either. As most of us I guess we're stuck with a 2 year contract or so anyhow.
It seems like a really bad thing on MS' side but really its not that bigga deal.
With so many of us here it is easy to build another database at other places and even servers like rapidshare, megaupload etc. They might take them down but they will be back up very quickly. That being said once the network is made all we need to do is get the word around via PM's as to keep it off the boards to keep MS from being able to do anything. Simple
Upload the roms, have in your sig you have links, give out the links in PM's and we are all good to use xda as the great community it always has been
Cheers
vador said:
Hi all,
I read the thread about M$ that wants xda-developers to take the htc roms from ftp. One more time M$ disappoint their customers that just want to take the max from their htc pockets (We paid 500€ more or less for a pocket, I thing is legitimately that we want to take the max from our pocket)....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually; it's HTC we should be mad at... If they would release some decently functioning firmware for our devices in the first place, there would not be any need for a ROM archive so we can cook up our own ROM sets...
And i really supect HTC has also triggered this M$ action, because of the appearance of diverse test-ROM's for Trinity and Hermes among others...
Just like someone said before: why do these multi-billion-dollar-bohemoths of companies piss on their customers like this ??? It's truly shocking how they crank out half-working product and kick them on the market, and forget about them instantly (support for existing customers? what's that ...?).
They should better concentrate to work with us, and create a better user-experience for all their customers... But since we have a thing called "world-economy", don't count on it to happen....it never will...
Makes me sad....
ZaJules said:
Why is it that Big corporations treat their customers like dirt!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not that I like that the ROMs were removed, it was a very helpful service.
But this anti-MS ranting does not help. MS is not the salvation army, and they do (and have to do) what is legally possible to protect their business interests and that of their customers. The free download of one of their OS is not something to can seriously expect them to tolerate in the long run.
Folks:
Wiki's are editable by everybody... especially the place were "links to roms" are.
XDA will fight any m$ attempts to have us remove links to roms. That amounts to web censorship.
Well I had just made an excalibur torrent, but I like hermes better, I should have everything down tomorrow and a torrent ready then, sucks Im not gonna be able to use orb. if you havent I suggest you register at demonoid.com. there are other torrents there you may find interesting.
I have some ideas for a heavily customized Android tablet for an industrial use. Most of the customizations involve taking things OUT and locking stuff down, durability a plus as well.
I sent a couple emails to Chinese companies but didn't get any response, and am also a bit worried about them stealing my ideas and running with 'em.
Any pointers/advice?
When your idea is greater then great then can you register your idea with patents.
But you need to know that patents are realy expensive and some company's copy all things what they see.
You can better search for a buddy who has knowledge for manufacture in China or an other cheap country.
know that big companies like Foxxcon make only big orders.
Yep, that's pretty much where I'm at right now. Not sure of how to proceed patent-wise and not really wanting to work with Chinese companies either way.
Cheap isn't paramount for this application, if anybody knows of any more local resources for android hardware I could talk to...
Only have time for a real quick reply right now to a very deep topic...
I would say your best bet is to look into various 'open source' models. Look at the the DIYdrone community. You can get Android running on a little ARM processor. Or for a turnkey dev solution:
liquidware.com/shop/show/BB-AND-DEV/Android+Hardware+Development+Kit
Throw it in a Pelican case and you've got yourself a proof-of-concept. Which is what you're gonna need to raise any venture capitol if you pick that route...
As far as patents... this can also get you some credibility with venture capitalists... you can file a patent yourself for pretty cheap but don't expect it to hold against any big boys though...
Good luck, there's a lot to learn, making a bunch of Engineering/Programming/Business friends and having your girl pick the outfit before the big pitch!
Cheers
Android on a chip
Hi koob,
Thanks for the useful reply. Do you have any additional tips on getting Android running on the simplest circuit possible?
Using phones for development is possible but not ideal as we're using some of the newer features of the OS (e.g. ADK), and unlocked phones supporting it are somewhat expensive.
I'm interested in two stages, prototyping (I couldn't find much in the DIYDrones community on this), and manufacturing (maybe companies like Shenzhen Xinkenmingteng Industry Technology on Alibaba could take a functional spec or a PCB design?).
Many thanks for your help.
Bump! I would also be interested in hearing more about this, as we want to develop a custom mobile monitoring device, using Android so as to save us the effort of writing firmware for the wireless communications, display, touchscreen, etc. Like TheCritic, we're interested in locking it down - replacing the OS's main functionality with some skin or app we write ourselves.
The Liquidware Android Hardware Development Kit is interesting, but has many things we don't need and misses a few things we do. We're just not sure where to begin choosing the hardware and working with the kernel, device drivers, etc. Any pointers would be very appreciated.
Any progress here?
I have a pretty similar situation. Having a cool idea that would need only a few features from android. Did you develop your platform? Or found someone who did it for you?
Nothing other than what's seen here, though there were more useful replies than I'd remembered to this thread!
How would you know if someone cooked a back door into their ROM. A back door that would allow them to monitor a phone's contents remotely. A phone that's running their ROM of course.
Mercurybird said:
How would you know if someone cooked a back door into their ROM. A back door that would allow them to monitor a phone's contents remotely. A phone that's running their ROM of course.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Normally this can happen only with vendor's signed rom. Only vendors do this sometimes. Examples: Conflipper, 911sniper and recently some other guys. Vendor was naturally HTC.
They all uploaded a lot of official roms to the private host, HTC investigated the case, found the possible leak source and framed them leaking the rom with backdoor. Thus vendor got personal data and later ganged up on them threatening prosecution.
So if you want to be 100% sure that you have back-door-free rom - cook custom Because chiefs don't give a $hit about your personal data, vendor - does!
P.S. And of course:
Remember, just because you're paranoid that doesn't mean that everyone's not out to get you!
than use only the shipt roms from factory , i have used many custum roms and never a problem now i use dynamics 2.0 and he is perfect.
the only thing wath is sure in live is your bird and dead
Mercurybird said:
How would you know if someone cooked a back door into their ROM. A back door that would allow them to monitor a phone's contents remotely. A phone that's running their ROM of course.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh. Don't tell this idea to anyone!
I have just bought a new sports car based on money stolen from your phones. New flat to come. Please, wait a little more! Don't spread this information.
Mercurybird said:
How would you know if someone cooked a back door into their ROM. A back door that would allow them to monitor a phone's contents remotely. A phone that's running their ROM of course.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now without irony.
Of course, you can never be sure. But:
1) XDA-developers is a community of enthusiasts. If we were to steal anything, we could do it long ago. But, in that case, any other developer can reveal the truth about ROM internals and totally ruin reputation of that developer.
While reputation is just an "integer" value stored somewhere in XDA databases and people's minds, maintaining good "karma" in internet is still much more useful IRL (I guess many devs here can confirm it).
It is a pure hobby for almost everyone. Most of us have work, studies, lots of other things to do.
2) Windows Phone isn't really interesting for majority of "evil" hackers. It is a niche platform currently. It is nearly impossible to earn donations or get money any other way on this platform via development. Thus, I am quite sure all developers still keeping this platform alive are real enthusiasts without any criminal thoughts in minds.
3) Low interest leads to small amount of developers, lack of manuals, etc. Even "evil hackers" have to learn _how_ to do harm on specific platform. WP7 unofficial development has a big entry barrier, effectively filtering even power users.
You can ask what are the reasons most of us still work on this platform? Each software engineer loves when his code _works_, and WP7 limitations is better in this case. Because relatively small amount of native code works "out of the box" - I mean, without hours in debugger, decompiler, eyes red due to display backlight, nights spent in code
ultrashot said:
Now without irony.
Of course, you can never be sure. But:
1) XDA-developers is a community of enthusiasts. If we were to steal anything, we could do it long ago. But, in that case, any other developer can reveal the truth about ROM internals and totally ruin reputation of that developer.
While reputation is just an "integer" value stored somewhere in XDA databases and people's minds, maintaining good "karma" in internet is still much more useful IRL (I guess many devs here can confirm it).
It is a pure hobby for almost everyone. Most of us have work, studies, lots of other things to do.
2) Windows Phone isn't really interesting for majority of "evil" hackers. It is a niche platform currently. It is nearly impossible to earn donations or get money any other way on this platform via development. Thus, I am quite sure all developers still keeping this platform alive are real enthusiasts without any criminal thoughts in minds.
3) Low interest leads to small amount of developers, lack of manuals, etc. Even "evil hackers" have to learn _how_ to do harm on specific platform. WP7 unofficial development has a big entry barrier, effectively filtering even power users.
You can ask what are the reasons most of us still work on this platform? Each software engineer loves when his code _works_, and WP7 limitations is better in this case. Because relatively small amount of native code works "out of the box" - I mean, without hours in debugger, decompiler, eyes red due to display backlight, nights spent in code
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great comments all around. I'm not a paranoid person. But I couldn't help wondering. I have faith in the community all around, like you said. Accountability doesn't lead to deviousness, it leads to integrity. I've heard that the Android is the hacker phone of choice. Or maybe I was misled in my naivete'. One of the things that I noted in my toying with the xda apps, the root tools tell you to be careful about allowing all of your apps. It's big fun watching what you guys crank out. keep up the good work, and if there is threat out there- crank out some apps for it.:highfive:
So you are a talented individual (or a group) whose product out there some people would benefit from ?
Or not yet done with your product yet?.. but you do have the skills that you can use to build a product, that is a great gift by itself! and it should not be gone unnoticed.
“Nothing from nothing ever yet was born”
Neither it comes out of nowhere, nor it would just disappear.
Inspiration and outcome.. two elementary aspects for the process, and the main subject of this article as well.
You're either generously willing to gift your product to the world (which is highly appreciated by all your users) like so many free apps on the market. That works very well as long as you can afford the luxury of supporting your product without expecting a financial return.
Or naturally, you would be thinking.. can I get money out of this? which is absolutely fine, and it should keep up your desire to support, update, and upgrade your product, what you should be thinking is how!.
Software
Writing this article having software production as a primary subject in mind, I strongly believe that the discussion can fairly fit any other kind of product.
In this article
We will be discussing some very common methods first, as well as some unusual methods later on.
it’s not a guide with a couple of steps to follow and unleash the jinni!
It is meant to briefly provide our brain juice by covering different aspects in ways we can provide a better cause for our innovation.
Straightforward
One of the first, yet most commonly used methods by mankind. Some would call it “being an honest tradesman”. This is when we simply ask our customer for money equivalent to the product we are providing. A good way to get a return for what we propose. When following a "straight forward" strategy, I would strongly advise a good product presentation and marketing campaign, this is how we can get our customers to willingly pay to get our product.
Sponsored
What could be better than someone funding our project, believing in our product and outcome. This is where we can focus only on our product, as having someone believing in our skills enough to sponsor our project is quite a push for self confidence. But the question remains; What does it take to get sponsored? How to lead a sponsored project to success?!
A spectacular proposal, promising outcome, uniquely identified features. As of leading our sponsored project to success, a solid plan in details is the main element of success.
Fishing?
Are you a fishing kind of person?
Lay ahead your net with all your goods for free to the sea of customers, some will gracefully offer you a fish in return!
Except you don't actually need a fishing boat to do so in here..
One more common strategy is depending on donations. Releasing our useful product absolutely for free, promoting either ourselves or our product, a satisfied customer will be offering us donations to keep up the good work. it’s not as easy as it sounds.. yet not too complicated, we have already done most of our part in this when we successfully produced a quality product mentioning that donations are most welcome. That being said, this strategy depends totally on the kind of customers we have.
Campaign Strategy
Previously, we mentioned 2 different methods, getting a sponsor and asking for donations. In campaign strategy we combine both these methods together. Like when we’re looking for a sponsor, we prepare the attractive proposal, but we don’t do it for a specific sponsor, we ask for donations support to build our project and bring our ideas to life.
A part of a bigger picture
Another commonly used strategy, not in a direct way occasionally, is supporting -with our product- a successful organisation by being a part of their production campaign. There is where we get a return for our efforts without caring about how is the product presented or published. However, using this method indicates lower risk factors, most likely our product will lose its identity by becoming a part of something else.
Trials
It is always an option to split our product into 2 parts, a stripped version for free, and a full paid version. A successful strategy, counting mainly on our product quality plus having attractive features to offer. A free product is attractive by itself for our customer, but that’s not all what we’re looking for, the end game here is to have this free product itself truly deep within its user experience to keep our users looking for our full version.
Ask for more!
Quite similar strategy to our previous one, but we don’t have to produce 2 different versions of our product in here, just one version.. but missing some features (or accessories). With these missing litle features we can make money. However, we are actually selling these desirable features in here, our product better be functioning and totally usable without these features. Product quality and user experience are playing an important role in here as well.
An Apple
Spotting Apple’s brand logo on any piece of technology uniquely identifies it, guarantees as well the quality and support. A regular customer would peacefully pay a huge amount of money for it without doubting the product.
To be able to ask for the price we’re looking for, we have first to build reputation, and gain our customers’ trust. What identifies our product uniquely ? Why would a regular customer prefer our product than others already existing? Unless our product is quite unique or a one of a kind invention, one good strategy is to actually compromise in terms of price.
Never underestimate the crowd
Our customer has already made it that far and decided to go with our product. it doesn’t mean nothing, it means we are actually one step closer to our esteemed goal, the more customers we get the closer we are to becoming an icon. so if selling for the desired price is not currently an option for our product, then spreading our product to gain popularity should be the first step. social networks would help a great deal in doing so.
Speaking of networks..
As it is surely easier to use an existing network, it is absolutely more powerful to build our own. even a symbolic return for our loyal customer promoting our brand would be an encouragement. There are many ways where we can use customers and fans to to gain profit.
The Idea of Sharing
What if the customer himself is actually finding our next customer? or actually selling one of our products in our name!
However, a simple return could be all what it takes when you ask nicely a satisfied customer, a symbolic return to the new business partner is not enough to keep the network growing, but sharing a tiny bit of your assisted earnings would do the trick.
The Art of Perfection
The concept of perfection is absolutely relative.. one would say it doesn’t exist!
It depends on how you look at it, and what are you looking for. From a consumer point of view it could be just satisfying whatever was originally expected out of it.
The future is the true success
Straight to the point.. it could be fairly easy to gain some profit from our initial product, however, this should not be the final goal, it can only be just a step on the way. regardless of how is the product presented, advertised, or promising are the features in it. The product quality and support is what puts in the final words with its customer satisfaction.
A final word
Out of all debated concepts of this subject, besides gathering our clear thoughts on the product outcome, a final thought in mind should lead to initially aiming for development and production, as close as it gets to its relative perfection. Which is a money making strategy by itself regardless the methods used.
You surely have heard the awesomely cheap prices of the Huawei phones, Xiaomi, and other chinese brands. And you'd be wise with your money to invest for a Chinese smartphone, but there's a catch, every American company makes their cellphones in China as well.
Apple as a notable example of this. Where the people working at their factories in FOXCONN have a reputation for killing themselves. Why? Excessive loads of work and a poor working ambient.
But this post goes even further than criticizing the treatment of employees in the PRC, but the bad treatment of their citizens in general, China is a repressive authoritarian state where people are not allowed to say think or act in ways contrary to the government and if the government thinks you're a threat then rest assured it'll make your life a living hell.
How does Chinese authoritarianism affects your user experience as a consumer?
Very simple, yet dark.
Chinese companies syphon all the info they can possibly gather about you, even Nokia was found to send data to the Chinese government.
It is a threat to your security and a support to the current oppressive regime in China to buy their cellphones.
So what's my recommendation? Buy phones made in India, Vietnam or South Korea. Samsung is a good example and is why I bought my phone from them, mine was made in Vietnam and I'm happy with it. Except that I have a not so popular model and I have to be active in the dev community to push it forward. But that has its own beauty!
With this I close the Post and I wish every reader a good day.
There are some companies that send data to governments, they use operating systems such as HydrogenOS as far as I know. I don't know much about these things but I can assure you this thing is very dangerous and can lead to uncountable threats in the future
Null909 said:
There are some companies that send data to governments, they use operating systems such as HydrogenOS as far as I know. I don't know much about these things but I can assure you this thing is very dangerous and can lead to uncountable threats in the future
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know right? The worst thing is that the common consumer doesn't care about it. So they'll buy a phone from the shadiest cheapest company you could possibly imagine and won't even try to install a custom rom.
A phone, which is a conglomerate of plastic, glass, metal and other solid components, cannot spy, whether it has been produced in china or elsewhere: if someone is spying, it is the apps that are installed, the rights that are granted.
It is the user who enables espionage and not a chinese or other resident manufacturer. See also here
Sotiras said:
I know right? The worst thing is that the common consumer doesn't care about it. So they'll buy a phone from the shadiest cheapest company you could possibly imagine and won't even try to install a custom rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, that's right, but it's not necessary for the phone itself to be spying, maybe it's the system that plays the spy. Like China's Hydrogen firmwares, this thing is like trying to find a needle in a haystack for users, i.e. they don't think about such things in general as it poses a danger to the user. I don't know much about this thing but I recently read about cases revealed by phones, the internet is a big and dangerous world and used as a means of gathering information in various subjects، and don't forget that a lot of people have been investigated just because they searched for certain topics on the internet i.e. countries are watching literally everything.
do you have any proof that e.g. Huawei is spying on people John Doe? you don’t, because there isn’t any, there isn’t any evidence of intention, there is nothing there, just smoke and mirrors. even a mr. Trump could not present any evidence.
i hope we are not so ignorant as to be swayed by such poor writing as OP did.
remember that as soon as you switch on an Android device, where it doesn't matter whether you registered it with Google or not, Google starts spying on you. wondering why always chinese manufactures are said to be the culprits?
@Sotiras
while we can understand and accept the freedom of speaking about our devices on a dedicated forum like XDA, the exacerbation of the topic beyond the forum rules and the lack common sense is not tolerated.
such remarks as below
But this post goes even further than criticizing the treatment of employees in the PRC, but the bad treatment of their citizens in general, China is a repressive authoritarian state where people are not allowed to say think or act in ways contrary to the government and if the government thinks you're a threat then rest assured it'll make your life a living hell.
How does Chinese authoritarianism affects your user experience as a consumer?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
is totally inappropriate and have never had a place on XDA for a simple reason:
2. Member conduct.
2.4 Personal attacks, racial, political and / or religious discussions: XDA is a discussion forum about certain mobile phones. Mobile phones are not racial, political, religious or personally offensive and therefore, none of these types of discussions are permitted on XDA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
as simple as that, just imagine you`re talking to your best friend that has just purchased a Chinese or other branded phone; are you going to talk about that country`s politics or about the device itself? I bet you`d just say, "ok bud, enjoy your phone although I`m not such a fan because ... takes worse pictures ..." and nicely move on for a beer and continue talking about girls. But somehow here on XDA you feel like, behind a keyboard, expanding your thoughts further to political aspects well no, we do not host here such topics.
please keep this in mind and next time try to be device centred rather than political.
thanks for understanding!
thread colsed