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I never thought id see the day I'd get rid of my beloved Athena, but yesterday I had an awakening.
Only a few days before i'd had a play on an IPhone and marvelled at its intuitive, smooth and just bloody BRILLIANT interface. it almost shocked me just how crude, ill-thought-out and unsatisfying windows mobile is in comparison. Now please don't baulk at this statement; i'm NOT going to buy an IPhone, it doesn't do enough for me and it's overpriced. But remember, this is Apple's FIRST. need I repeat FIIIIRRRSSST attempt at the mobile os market. how have they got it right so effortlessly while Microsoft, with all their years of experience in the field continue to make such crap?
I have shaken off my bias towards Microsoft and now simply resent their seeming inability to produce a mobile os that works well.
I don't wish this thread to be about the iphone. We all know its only 2g, can't do mms and doesn't have a particularly good camera. what it does do it does WELL though.
The same is true of Nokia's n800 and n810 internet tablets with os2008. they play YOUTUBE with flash 9. they render web pages smoothly and effortlessly. they look and feel nice. my n95 also - its web browser loads up data-heavy web pages PHENOMINALLY quicker than my Athena, despite its processor and ram spec being distinctly inferior.
why am I getting rid of my Ameo?
Put simply: it just doesn't work. it works a hell of a lot BETTER thanks to PK and the developers, but to all intents and purposes, when you really need it to work, it just doesn't. This is true of ALL windows mobile devices.
How often have you needed to use Internet Explorer to check something on the fly and been frustrated by a constant 'connecting' or 'opening' message for no apparent reason? How often has your windows mobile device crashed, frozen or botched up for no reason? I could go on, but I prefer to give my own personal remedy to the situation, and here it is....
dig out my old Hermes, dust off the cobwebs. use this for all my organising, scheduling etc...
install WmWifiRouter so my Hermes acts as a perfect wifi access point when its HSDPA capabilities are required.
buy a shiny tiny black ASUS eee subnotebook for a little under 230 quid.
connect shiny tiny black ASUS eee subnotebook to Hermes access point when internet is required away from home.
sell Athena to anyone who hasn't realised Windows Mobile is crap yet.
it seems to me that Microsoft are about to fall under the shadow of Apple and Nokia quite abruptly. somebody tell me i'm wrong!
p.s. - Athena for sale if anyone wants one
sounds like you either did a bad flash or got a bad batch coz my athena has never crashed once or had any of the problems you described.never the less,how much are you selling it for?is it an x7501 or x7500?
i can see what your on about , but personally i find that my Athena(Ameo) ticks about every box i want it to.
I want an all in one device for browsing, streaming, phoning and texting and running some other apps and the Athena is the only all in one device that ticks all those boxes for me. I like the thought of the Eee PC but only if it can run XP properly but still you need 2 devices which isnt what i want to do.
Hi Leoni1980,
I think its a question of how you configure your device. I agree that WM6 in its native mode is crap. It takes too many strokes to start an applicatio. It does not tell you what applications are active. It is difficult to switch from one to another. Yes, the list could be long.
However, I also find that with WM6 there are so many good third party software to overcome these limitations. While it takes too many clicks to start an application, iLauncher allows me to put every single applications on the today screen. While Wm6 does not tell you what applications are alive, wktask puts every running application on the taskbar and let me switch to anyone easily. WM6 lets me multitask. While pocket IE is crude in its navigation, pieplus makes it all pleasant.
For me, everything works extremely well. Athena is almost perfect in terms of portability, battery life, screen size and connectivity..
However, I agree that internet browsing is too slow. Even comparing it with a dialed up connection on a pc, it is relatively slow, unless I use the "mobile" versions of webpages. With the mobile versions, everything is snappy and instantaneous. Is Nokia not like that? Is Nokia able to let you browse the desktop version of webpages without any response time delay? If it is, microsoft would truly got to wake up and do something about it. Another thing that we have to be careful is not to fall into the trap of thinking grass is greener on the other side. According to Nokia customer support the N800 does not support 802.1X authentication with EAP-TTLS and PAP. Also, despite being a Linux based device the N800 lacks out of the box support for Ogg format media files.
So, Nokia is able to play the desktop version of youtube. I agree that this is a glaring disadvantage of Wm6 at the moment. W don't have the latest version of flash. Why is this the case is hard for me to understand. Why can Nokia have it and not WM6? Now, the only way to watch youtube desktop version is to download the flv files. Would be nice to be able to watch them without having to first download the videos.
You're now carrying two devices. A subnotebook and an old Hermes. This is definitely not a good way for me, because the subnotebook is too big and too battery short for me to carry it with me all the time. Not to mention that now there are two pieces of gear to carry instead of just one.
Having an all in one requires some compromises. You won't have the best digital camera in the world with this arrangement. Similarly, you won't have the biggest screens to go with it. There is always room for improvement, but for now, I still think Athena is the best device available in the market.
if i had to carry the subnotebook about ALL THE TIME i would agree, however i have the hermes for when i'm unfortunate enough to have to use internet explorer mobile.
The EEE is not actually THAT MUCH bigger than the Athena, and has very good battery life- almost twice that of the Shift running Vista. It is also capable of running full Xp. there are lots of videos on the subject and the EEE manual even tells you how to do it. Although on paper the EEE has a poorer battery life it is also far more responsive and thus allows me to do things in a quarter of the time it would on the Athena. As such battery life is not really an issue.
With regard to the N95's ability to display full web pages - I promise you this is the case. I've even found it capable of accessing sites the Athena was not capable of.
I initially wrote this off as perhaps a better 3g transmitter on the N95, but i tested my Athena over wifi for the first time the other day and still it rendered web pages in a painfully sluggish manner, despite our relatively fast broadband connection. The same was true when tested with Opera. This makes me believe that there is an inherent problem with the architecture of windows mobile which even the greatest developer couldn't overcome.
I wholly disagree with shortyboy's bad flash assertion - I've owned windows mobile devices for years and this problem has always existed.
Nor is it a configuration issue. I spend most of my days off tweaking phones to improve their performance. The fact is that no amount of tweaking will make an Athena as good at rendering web pages as a nokia or an iphone. Once microsoft sees this they might (we hope) scrap their plans to release wm7 with (no doubt) its FEW performance tweaks, the cute little flag in the top left-hand corner and the new, hardly-improved I.E. and build a whole new O.S. from scratch which makes the most of modern mobile cpus, doesn't look 10 years old and does everything it should out of the box. That way stupid hybrid devices like the Shift would never get off the ground as there would LITERALLY be no need for them.
Yes the Athena ticks every box in terms of connectivity - unfortunately this fact clouded my judgment of its actual performance - and that of all such devices - yes you can purchase all the third party software under the sun to make windows mobile usable but this software only makes life a little better, it doesn't FIX the problems.
Just have a play on an n810 when it comes out this month and you'll see what I mean -os2008 is so smooth, well-considered and functional. Just try browsing the internet on it, or watching a video on it. It just WORKS and works well. Even OS 2007 outperforms windows mobile.
Cex sell n800s for 200quid. This month they will all be upgradeable to os2008. The pocket gadget side of me is SORELY tempted!!
p.s. its an x7500 t-mobile branded. It has the 4-in-one and lots of other bits.
I agree with many of your points on the Athenas lack of usability.
Mine is used for little more than a wireless access point these days, I'm in prison typing this on my Asus Eee pc running XP, which is much more of a pleasure to use for email and web browsing. (Not in prison as an inmate, I'm an officer...)
This nokia N800. It does not have a GPS, does it?
How about third party software?
I hope to check out on this myself. Anyone knows where in Sydney I could try out this device?
athena project need an athena
Midget_1990 said:
athena project need an athena
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its here if you need it Midget.
eaglesteve - the n800 has no inbuilt GPS receiver, although it is compatible with map software (including gmaps and Nokia Maps) and any bluetooth receivers. Many people prefer separate gps receivers as they can be positioned more effectively in the vehicle. It is pretty much identical in hardware terms to the n810 aside from the built-in keyboard and GPS. processor and ram are the same and it has two SDHC slots as opposed to the single one on the n810.
I think it's a bargain myself.
Took delivery of my black eee pc today and I'm so impressed by its size and performance. Everything works out of the box, from BBC online to divx stage six to youtube. It even picks up and syncs with my Ipod, and you can mod the look of the os to your heart's content.
ALL FOR JUST OVER 200 QUID!
It's bigger than the Athena, sure, but I had to carry the Athena in a bag anyway and the weight/mass difference is negligible in this scenario. The battery life is not technically as good either - but it boots SOOOOOO quick that this almost isn't an issue. I can fire it up and use it when I need it if I'm out, and merrily use my old Hermes for practical pocket pc/telephone duties - even Wifi access point functionality.
I literally don't need the Athena anymore.
I don't like a separate GPS unit. It means I need to carry two devices when I play golf, and can't get the fix prior to entering my car. Also, when I get off the train and walk, I can't use it to tell me direction to my destination as easily as Athena.
I still think Athena is the best for now. But I'm all ready to switch if there is a better product. I don't see such a product yet.
WM6 = WM5
Just think about that and try to realize that Windows Mobile 5 is A LOT OLDER than the OS'es on the iPhone and N800/N810.
WM7 will change a LOT on an HTC. (Different shell, different hardware)
And before you insult HTC, you need to wait on the new OS.
Agree.
WM6 is still based on ce5. Ce6 is about to be released. Looking forward to major major improvements
@ leoni's posts mainly
heh when i was in the US i had a chance to see the iphone. ... i was probably expecting too much, the crazy hype had me believe it had a truly revolutional interface and lots of amazing animations.
nope.
it was sorely disappointing... just a few ordinary tricks, nothing special or anything that would make the device more usable... for example, i prefer being able to multitask in a way i can see what apps are running without clicking anything, also a way to easily switch.. basically the good old taskbar
...so, i wouldn't be able to live without magicbuttons, or now, without wktask on WM6. yes WM GUI sucks out of the box at least as much as the iphone gui, but at least you can install these wonderful apps!
to be honest i still prefer plain CE because that has all this and more working out of the box - much nearer a real PC than the too much simplified down WM ... as i said only third party apps save WM.
where we disagree is i think the apps do fix most of the issues of WM.
my only problem with my athena is how it sometimes slows down if i type a lot on it. then i need to wait about 1 min, maybe close word mobile, then it is back to normal again. i sometimes use the wordpad i got out of platform builder, better in several respects than the sucky word mobile. that one app drives me crazy sometimes.
...though, i don't see how the iphone has any kind of word processor onboard.
i don't give a damn if it can't do MMS or 3G (i'm fine with gprs when i turn off pictures in the browser and i'm using vodafone's great APN which compresses data), and i don't care for the camera on any mobile phone so far.
what i need is just office and a proper browser and irc client and some more apps, and the iphone has NONE of those. crazy how limited it is.
oh before you start telling me how fabulous the browser is on the iphone ... it is not. it is slow loading pages, and the requirement of zooming in and out drives me crazy. and, the real deal breaker is how i could not open links in a new window at will. i do not mean opening a new empty window, i mean opening a link on an already loaded page, in a new window!! no one so far could show me how so i'm assuming it lacks this basic capability - for me, absolute dealbreaker, i cannot comfortably browse pages without that option.
i'd like to see the n800, though, the OS i hear is sluggish when multitasking. so i'm just curious about the browser.
200 quid.. hmm the 770 is only 100 : ) tempting yes, just no keyboard so that's a bit of an issue to me.
i'm not sure if your athena has no specific issues... i don't have the complaints on mine that you do... mine doesn't crash (except for above mentioned slow down but no reboot is required) and the browser is fast. but, i don't touch pocket internet explorer, i've never ever tried using it on the athena. opera is just so much faster and has none of the quirks of crappy PIE
so no, i don't have this "connecting" or "opening" message problem as i don't touch PIE.
also, opera here is quite fast! not sure what your issue is with it...
though maybe not as fast as the opera on my zaurus C760 pda linux does excel at browser speed options!
all in all... yes WM sucks, and microsoft should fix this, but until then i'm happy with wktask and the amazing hardware of the athena. finally a ppc that has a good enough (large enough) display which looks good in realvga too!! yeah realvga is again third party add on ... sigh! so to be really honest i wouldn't touch WM (except for hacking things! ), and would just use plain CE if it weren't for htc universal / athena (mainly athena!) and some essential third party apps. well CE is made by microsoft too so i don't understand how they got it so wrong with WM.
CE6 will be based on a different memory architecture and improved security (grr for hackers) and many other things, so i'm curious, but for me the GUI is the issue on WM and not really the kernel except for the couple of slow downs i mentioned. other than that WM5 and later seem to be exceptionally stable to me and no slow down just because i'm running several apps at once! i find that great!
so i'm hoping MS gets themselves together and improve on the GUI but please don't imitate the iphone - i like CE better. this is quite a personal view of course.
one last note.. as for the EEE, battery life and size is an issue for me. so sticking to athena (and my universals and my CE devices)
yes the EEE is that much bigger than the athena. :sigh:
also some of the tasks i use my devices for, cannot be done in a shorter time on XP, for example if i want to go online and chat for a few hours...good battery life is a must
ok i'll stop ranting here .. but this is such an interesting subject
p.s.: how is that i can only insert four smilies?! had to remove three because i typed seven of them, wtf
I saw an Asus Eee today in black.
looks very very nice for the money, the missus said she might buy it 4 me for xmas if I want it
hmm decisions decisions
spacecat said:
I saw an Asus Eee today in black.
looks very very nice for the money, the missus said she might buy it 4 me for xmas if I want it
hmm decisions decisions
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Got the black one myself on thursday through Ebuyer, though I believe they're out of stock at the mo. I've installed XP on it just to test it and it works perfectly, even the webcam works fine. It boots up in seconds which is unfamiliar territory for me!
I quite like the Linux interface though so I might go back to it eventually. Everything worked out of the box- youtube, stage 6, even Ipods. Only real prob I had with Linux was that I couldn't use Activesync but I liked the amount of tweaking you can do to it.
If you need any pics, comparisons or whatnot I can post them or forward them. I won't be looking back. It's a brillliant bit of kit, especially for the money.
p.s. you can even install mac osx on it, though the procedure is a tad complicated for me.
cmonex said:
@ leoni's posts mainly
heh when i was in the US i had a chance to see the iphone. ... i was probably expecting too much, the crazy hype had me believe it had a truly revolutional interface and lots of amazing animations.
nope.
it was sorely disappointing... just a few ordinary tricks, nothing special or anything that would make the device more usable... for example, i prefer being able to multitask in a way i can see what apps are running without clicking anything, also a way to easily switch.. basically the good old taskbar
...so, i wouldn't be able to live without magicbuttons, or now, without wktask on WM6. yes WM GUI sucks out of the box at least as much as the iphone gui, but at least you can install these wonderful apps!
to be honest i still prefer plain CE because that has all this and more working out of the box - much nearer a real PC than the too much simplified down WM ... as i said only third party apps save WM.
where we disagree is i think the apps do fix most of the issues of WM.
my only problem with my athena is how it sometimes slows down if i type a lot on it. then i need to wait about 1 min, maybe close word mobile, then it is back to normal again. i sometimes use the wordpad i got out of platform builder, better in several respects than the sucky word mobile. that one app drives me crazy sometimes.
...though, i don't see how the iphone has any kind of word processor onboard.
i don't give a damn if it can't do MMS or 3G (i'm fine with gprs when i turn off pictures in the browser and i'm using vodafone's great APN which compresses data), and i don't care for the camera on any mobile phone so far.
what i need is just office and a proper browser and irc client and some more apps, and the iphone has NONE of those. crazy how limited it is.
oh before you start telling me how fabulous the browser is on the iphone ... it is not. it is slow loading pages, and the requirement of zooming in and out drives me crazy. and, the real deal breaker is how i could not open links in a new window at will. i do not mean opening a new empty window, i mean opening a link on an already loaded page, in a new window!! no one so far could show me how so i'm assuming it lacks this basic capability - for me, absolute dealbreaker, i cannot comfortably browse pages without that option.
i'd like to see the n800, though, the OS i hear is sluggish when multitasking. so i'm just curious about the browser.
200 quid.. hmm the 770 is only 100 : ) tempting yes, just no keyboard so that's a bit of an issue to me.
i'm not sure if your athena has no specific issues... i don't have the complaints on mine that you do... mine doesn't crash (except for above mentioned slow down but no reboot is required) and the browser is fast. but, i don't touch pocket internet explorer, i've never ever tried using it on the athena. opera is just so much faster and has none of the quirks of crappy PIE
so no, i don't have this "connecting" or "opening" message problem as i don't touch PIE.
also, opera here is quite fast! not sure what your issue is with it...
though maybe not as fast as the opera on my zaurus C760 pda linux does excel at browser speed options!
all in all... yes WM sucks, and microsoft should fix this, but until then i'm happy with wktask and the amazing hardware of the athena. finally a ppc that has a good enough (large enough) display which looks good in realvga too!! yeah realvga is again third party add on ... sigh! so to be really honest i wouldn't touch WM (except for hacking things! ), and would just use plain CE if it weren't for htc universal / athena (mainly athena!) and some essential third party apps. well CE is made by microsoft too so i don't understand how they got it so wrong with WM.
CE6 will be based on a different memory architecture and improved security (grr for hackers) and many other things, so i'm curious, but for me the GUI is the issue on WM and not really the kernel except for the couple of slow downs i mentioned. other than that WM5 and later seem to be exceptionally stable to me and no slow down just because i'm running several apps at once! i find that great!
so i'm hoping MS gets themselves together and improve on the GUI but please don't imitate the iphone - i like CE better. this is quite a personal view of course.
one last note.. as for the EEE, battery life and size is an issue for me. so sticking to athena (and my universals and my CE devices)
yes the EEE is that much bigger than the athena. :sigh:
also some of the tasks i use my devices for, cannot be done in a shorter time on XP, for example if i want to go online and chat for a few hours...good battery life is a must
ok i'll stop ranting here .. but this is such an interesting subject
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't deem that a rant. Some very fair points very well put.
I must admit my experience of the Iphone is not as extensive as yours so I'll have to capitulate on that one. Though it seems to ace out windows mobile in terms of user input (on screen keyboard) and generally usability - takes a long while to get used to windows mobile if you've never experienced it.
I never experienced any slowdown on the n800 and i tested it a fair bit. With the os2008 upgrade things should only get better. It's a lot more user-friendly and the new os includes Firefox (which I prefer) instead of Opera.
I appreciate that the EEE is bigger than the Athena. when I said 'not that much' I meant that when carrying the EEE in the supplied case in a bag, compared to carrying the Athena in a bag - which I used to do in preference to cramming the device intpo my pocket - the difference is negligible.
I used to carry a bt keyboard and mouse with it also. Now compared to carrying a separate keyboard and mouse AND an Athena the difference is CERTAINLY negligible.
I can do everything on my old Hermes that I can do on the Athena - yes chatting and PDA stuff - and it has a better battery life. It also fits in my pocket nicely when I'm out and about.
For when I need full browsing, multimedia and office capability I've got the EEE - which is VERY portable, very rugged and even has a webcam if you want to do slightly more advanced chatting!
This is why I'm happy with my current setup.
leoni1980 said:
I didn't deem that a rant. Some very fair points very well put.
I must admit my experience of the Iphone is not as extensive as yours so I'll have to capitulate on that one. Though it seems to ace out windows mobile in terms of user input (on screen keyboard) and generally usability - takes a long while to get used to windows mobile if you've never experienced it.
I never experienced any slowdown on the n800 and i tested it a fair bit. With the os2008 upgrade things should only get better. It's a lot more user-friendly and the new os includes Firefox (which I prefer) instead of Opera.
I appreciate that the EEE is bigger than the Athena. when I said 'not that much' I meant that when carrying the EEE in the supplied case in a bag, compared to carrying the Athena in a bag - which I used to do in preference to cramming the device intpo my pocket - the difference is negligible.
I used to carry a bt keyboard and mouse with it also. Now compared to carrying a separate keyboard and mouse AND an Athena the difference is CERTAINLY negligible.
I can do everything on my old Hermes that I can do on the Athena - yes chatting and PDA stuff - and it has a better battery life. It also fits in my pocket nicely when I'm out and about.
For when I need full browsing, multimedia and office capability I've got the EEE - which is VERY portable, very rugged and even has a webcam if you want to do slightly more advanced chatting!
This is why I'm happy with my current setup.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
like i said wait till dual comes out. the team had a breakthrough yesturday and a new app will be in dual.. more details when rom comes out.
cmonex said:
@ leoni's posts mainly
my only problem with my athena is how it sometimes slows down if i type a lot on it. then i need to wait about 1 min, maybe close word mobile, then it is back to normal again. i sometimes use the wordpad i got out of platform builder, better in several respects than the sucky word mobile. that one app drives me crazy sometimes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wonder what your thoughts are on Softmaker office Textmaker, which should be superb on the athena in 96dpi? You may not even get the slowdown that you describe in Word. I use PlanMaker (their spreadsheet) and it works quite well in (96dpi) on my athena.
leoni1980 said:
Got the black one myself on thursday through Ebuyer, though I believe they're out of stock at the mo. I've installed XP on it just to test it and it works perfectly, even the webcam works fine. It boots up in seconds which is unfamiliar territory for me!
I quite like the Linux interface though so I might go back to it eventually. Everything worked out of the box- youtube, stage 6, even Ipods. Only real prob I had with Linux was that I couldn't use Activesync but I liked the amount of tweaking you can do to it.
If you need any pics, comparisons or whatnot I can post them or forward them. I won't be looking back. It's a brillliant bit of kit, especially for the money.
p.s. you can even install mac osx on it, though the procedure is a tad complicated for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
my current thinking is to get one and leave it at work, which is where i do most of my 'ATHENAring' ...is that a word !
And use my athena as an HSDPA modem for the Eee with XP installed on it.
I would then keep my Athena for when im out and about and NOT at work, hence keeping the full Athena mobility including the important ability to make calls and send texts.
Im not in a terrible hurry to do this and i understand that Asus are going to bring out upgraded versions of the Eee.
Bigger drives , 10 inch screen etc. Mind you its the small form factor that interests me esp as i may want to carry the Eee at some point.
I am however still well into my Athena and by the rom updates, looking forward to the DUAL rom which sounds exciting but im clueless as to what it can do more than PK3.0
How has your experience been with windows mobile 6.5?
I used shepards ROM at first and it would crash sometimes when I opened the text message application and would require a soft reset. Now I have been using RRE and it has tended to be much more stable. Though it still locks up sometimes when I open the text messaging program and sometimes pressing the home button or opening comm manager through the PTT button gets it out of it...its just weird. Anyone else getting a lot of lockups with winmo and if not what rom are you using.
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/rant
But on a more general note. I have mixed feelings about WM 6.5. I think WM 6.5 is definitely an improvement but it doesn't really go far enough. I mean I like all the features that were added and I do like the home screen better than touchflo and the start menu is pretty nice...but really did microsoft put enough effort into it.
Titanium is definitely a little thin and the start menu really isn't a big change. The start menu really is just a zoomed in version of the old start menu. But I will give a point to the honeycomb. It does kind of help you use your fingers because of the spacing and I've never really hit a wrong icon. The scrolling works pretty well so no complaints there.
I also do like what they did with the text messaging app. But really all they did was a few simple tweaks. It just doesn't show message sent...which is simply awesome because I used to hate that. It also marks all the messages as read when you open someone, which it didn't always do in WM 6.1.
PIE (pocket ie) is definitely getting better..although its still on the bottom of my list on the browser scale.
Overall I just feel like microsoft needs to do more to compete. I mean the iPhone is taking over the winmo market hand over fist and blackberry is also hitting them hard. They can't just get away with small UI tweaks in order to 1UP the competition. They didn't change anything from the OS at all. Its still the same windows CE that everyone hates and is as unreliable as ever.
I mean seriously microsoft...try a little harder. Microsoft has more resources than any company, certainly more resources than Apple and RIM. Apple has been putting out some crazy innovative changes and has done some about faces with their OS.
I mean as much as I don't like apple and as much as I am just not a fan of Mac or the whole sandbox "you don't have to worry about anything" mentality of apple products, apple does know how to innovate. I mean look at all the crazy changes they made. When the iPhone came out they didn't have any apps and apple was vehemently against customizing the iPhone because it would break the "it just works" mantra and make it more winmo like. They took a semi-passive stance towards jailbreaking and denounced it but didn't bother with it too much. Than they out of the blue released an official SDK and the app store, although the app store is super limited and jailbreaking is still popular thats still quite an about face.
Now they are coming out with MMS, a NSFW category, copy paste etc.
All I'm saying is microsoft shouldn't be so afraid to start from scratch. Give us something crazy that is just baffling. Put some creativity into it and just go all out. I mean look at windows 7, although my feeling are mixed on that too at least they were creative. They grouped tabs, added an XP mode, jump lists, etc. Although I'm not saying windows 7 is better than mac or anything, the stuff they put in it wasn't just stuff other OSes were already doing like in vista.
I mean why can't microsoft just toss the old winmo in the trash and get out their whiteboard and think of new stuff. You know...not make winmo so terrible. It really is clunky, slow, and rather outdated.
I just hope windows mobile 7 is going to be as game changing as microsoft claims it will be although I have huge doubts (as does every tech news site). Just prove us wrong and be different and radical...and stop ripping off other people's ideas.
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/endrant
I vote for option #3
I vote 1.
I totally agree with everything you said, but 6.5 is only a "wait for 7" thing. it even wasn't on the roadmap first.
all the changes and improvements you're asking for will come with WM7. So I'm fully happy with 6.5 which is a good transition OS.
the only drawback being it seems we'll have to wait some more for wm7.
not a fan at all really just because of some simple problems ive run into on about 4 different builds.
Feels like an iphone sometimes it decides im not allowed to copy paste text of messages etc WTF?
i cant reply to text messages from OS i need to make a new message and select the contact.
sending messages longer than 160 letters don't seem to work.
i think there were some more big ones.
once theres fixed ill LOVE it
I read an article that pretty much clarified how Microsoft rushed through the design of 6.5 and it’s apparent. 6.5 is decent but the upgrade wasn’t significant enough to stir me away from TF3D2. I am currently using Energy Rom 3.0 and never use the Titanium home screen. I would more inclined to use Titanium if there was an option to maintain the classical start menu drop down but I guess I have to adapt to change. Or do I?
After waiting 3 months for my warranty claim I flash to Proven 4.2 with 6.5 and I can just say
1. ROM is faster then Stock 6.1 with TF and after tweaks and even Proven 2.4 version.
I like the home screen but miss some of the features of TF like Sound Profiles. Which I used constantlly. Finger control is great and I use my stylus less now almost never.
Hates:
When you close and application it always goes back to the home screen rather then the start screen you were in. This is painful like I pressed the wrong icon and I just want the app to close and go back one level not to the home screen.
Loving the plugins that are becomming available just makes the touch PRo easier to use.
I absolutely love it.
aussieak said:
After waiting 3 months for my warranty claim I flash to Proven 4.2 with 6.5 and I can just say
1. ROM is faster then Stock 6.1 with TF and after tweaks and even Proven 2.4 version.
I like the home screen but miss some of the features of TF like Sound Profiles. Which I used constantlly. Finger control is great and I use my stylus less now almost never.
Hates:
When you close and application it always goes back to the home screen rather then the start screen you were in. This is painful like I pressed the wrong icon and I just want the app to close and go back one level not to the home screen.
Loving the plugins that are becomming available just makes the touch PRo easier to use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well cool thing about the Titanium homescreen is that is supports plugins and can be completely customizable. Already there are Audio Profile pages, Analog Clocks, Twitter, facebook, etc.
I just find HTC TouchFlo 3D homescreen far too "clunky" and kills the overall speed of the phone just to use it. When I use that I find myself launching apps and starting tasks I didn't want to do.
I really like the WM6.5 upgrade. The biggest thing I wish they finished was an updated dialer and their 1990's SIP keyboard. I mean the keyboard was the original keyboard from their original versions. They shoulda even threw in an updated volume app while they were at it.
When everything is said and done, WM6.5 just allows for less reliance on 3rd party apps. With the speed boosts and awesome finger friendly upgrades... it is a welcome addition to my Fuze.
aceofspades1217 said:
...and stop ripping off other people's ideas.
Code:
/endrant
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
6.5 is just that. .5
They did enough to release a .5 and not another .1 in my opinion. And I want them to rip off other peoples ideas, why would you not? You said yourself apple and RIM are beating them [although I honestly doubt that, RIM is business oriented, apple is idiot oriented, and winmo is general user oriented] so why would you not want MS to pull together the best of the best and give it to us? 7 is going to be just as much of a landmark as desktop 7. I dont know if you used it, but the beta was leaps better than vista and ready to go 99% out of the box. I had a few software issues, but nothing deal-breaking. 7 is running on eeePCs, that says something for it. It is running better than XP on older machines, another good thing. 7 is just great. I have no doubts that winmo 7 will be great. They will take winmo 6, overhaul it, create something prettier, more efficient, and faster, and the betas are going to be damn near stable. I for one am looking forward to MS version of the app store which will be part of 7.
Winmo still holds the market, like I said above:
RIM - business users
Apple - idiots
winmo - General users.....IE----the most
votum said:
6.5 is just that. .5
They did enough to release a .5 and not another .1 in my opinion. And I want them to rip off other peoples ideas, why would you not? You said yourself apple and RIM are beating them [although I honestly doubt that, RIM is business oriented, apple is idiot oriented, and winmo is general user oriented] so why would you not want MS to pull together the best of the best and give it to us? 7 is going to be just as much of a landmark as desktop 7. I dont know if you used it, but the beta was leaps better than vista and ready to go 99% out of the box. I had a few software issues, but nothing deal-breaking. 7 is running on eeePCs, that says something for it. It is running better than XP on older machines, another good thing. 7 is just great. I have no doubts that winmo 7 will be great. They will take winmo 6, overhaul it, create something prettier, more efficient, and faster, and the betas are going to be damn near stable. I for one am looking forward to MS version of the app store which will be part of 7.
Winmo still holds the market, like I said above:
RIM - business users
Apple - idiots
winmo - General users.....IE----the most
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well nothing wrong with ripping off of other people's ideas a little bit...after all thats convergent evolution. You aren't going to say a dolphin is bad because it ripped off a fish's idea.
But ripping off other people's ideas is no replacement for innovation. If microsoft stays one step behind apple and RIM then winmo will always be an outdated OS. And you can't just mash a bunch of random ideas and hope it sticks. Thats what vista was...it was ideas mashed up from Linux and Mac and it turned out to be even worse.
And Apple and RIM are taking over winmo marketshare hand over fist...when will HTC and microsoft put out some damn conductive screen phones...i mean...seriously!
absolutely hated it at first because it made me feel like i was using an htc s621, not to say that is a bad device or anything but the feel is too basic.
However, chefs started taking a liking towards it and I personally cannot make a rom that is satisfying enough to keep it on my device more than a few hours. Therefore, considering the chefs started utilizing it more in their builds, developers began creating programs and widgets for it. Overall, like m2d and tf3d, I hated both of them at first (so used to the simplicity of HTC Home) but eventually you start to notice creative people on XDA changing a mediocre OS into a work of art.
So cheers
EDIT: But then again, this poll/thread should not even be in the Rom development section.
Luvin 6.5
I'm one, of what seems to be a minority of people that really just doesn't like TF3D.
My personal opinion is that TF3D is gimmicky, lacks consistency & sucks when it comes to flexibility - unless you're willing to jump in and start hacking away (not something the average person wants to do).
The new interface in 6.5 is more consistent (menus, colors, tabs ...) and is pretty easy to plug Titanium apps into. I'm really luvin what feels to be the UI we should have gotten in the 1st place. A classic example of 'different tastes for different people'.
Can't wait for WM7
---Rob
Well TF3D2 did have me, because honestly WMP sucks when trying to use it without a stylus, plus its a gigantic memory hog. Where the media player in TF3D was very finger friendly and didnt use not very much ram at all.
However, I discovered pocket player 4 and lets just say that I dont use TF3d anymore and I throughly enjoy chrome.
Honestly if I wanted microsoft to fix anything it would be WMP, they either need to seriously update and optimize it or replace it with a optimized finger friendly zune application "which would fit right in with chrome imo".
Then again if chrome had a plugin that had basic swip controls "play, next song, previous, past, ect" then had a finger friendly media library in the softkey, they could even use the htc media manager to play it. Basically this would be porting the TF3D music tab to chrome....
crlowryjr said:
I'm one, of what seems to be a minority of people that really just doesn't like TF3D.
My personal opinion is that TF3D is gimmicky, lacks consistency & sucks when it comes to flexibility - unless you're willing to jump in and start hacking away (not something the average person wants to do).
The new interface in 6.5 is more consistent (menus, colors, tabs ...) and is pretty easy to plug Titanium apps into. I'm really luvin what feels to be the UI we should have gotten in the 1st place. A classic example of 'different tastes for different people'.
Can't wait for WM7
---Rob
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yah you and me both. TF3D also takes up an ass load of memory and sucks down battery like a mofo.
Much improved for me on my Fuze. 6.1 was pretty good, I had to tweak the video, interface etc to get the "snap" out of it, but 6.5 out of the box (RRE's 6.5), faster than 6.1. After a couple minor tweaks, faster than that!
Chrome taking a little getting use to because i used TF3D for over a year, but,
chrome is a little nicer, less closing windows after you get done doing something.
aceofspades1217 said:
yah you and me both. TF3D also takes up an ass load of memory and sucks down battery like a mofo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
right there with you
tf3d was and still is the first thing i disable whenever i flash a new rom
my first experience with it lasted for 10 mins and it didn't impress me with it's sluggish speed
ms today screen ftw!
hahaha
Offcourse its better, who said its not. Moreover yes we do like to have always more no matter even if they are going to release WM9
But I am worried they being inefficient in power consumption.
I have definitely enjoyed 6.5 over 6.1 by a long shot. I agree with most people that MS still has a ways to go though, and hopefully will get close with windows mobile 7. 6.5 was a good hold over until that point though. I do hope that MS gets very creative with 7 because I am tired of incremental updates when you can almost taste how good your Windows phone could be. I will be a windows phone user for life because I don't fall for gimmicks from Apple, and obviously with this great community there will be plenty of innovation to come.
I don't like it at all. WM 6.5 just seems like it should be made for a smart phones.
really now , why even post this when 6.5 is not officially released lol . we don even know what the real 6.5 is like !
anyways i voted for the first option because if you try NRG's roms then youd see what a rom is supposed to be like . ive not had one of these random text message problems or soft reseting problems or hard reseting problems atall . maybe you should widen your search of which cabs are good .
Just watched a review on the HTC evo4G and was impressed but unsure if I am an Android man???? what are your thoughts?
Evo4G vs HD2
antilagman said:
Just watched a review on the HTC evo4G and was impressed but unsure if I am an Android man???? what are your thoughts?
Evo4G vs HD2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've never tried Android, but if that phone wasn't CDMA I'd probably give it a go.
The EVO is definitely a device I'd love to have a go with. I enjoy using my HD2 but the EVO definitely has a few features i'd be interested in, mainly the Android OS, but also the better camera and the HDMI out.
HDMI-out is the killer feature I miss on the HD2 (I'm not even sure I would use it much, but I love convergence me )
I love the slimness of HD2 so I'm not sure yet.
Both my daughter and wife have the Evo. It is a fantastic phone. I find myself playing with it over my HD2 frequently. My HD2s biggest advantage is Outlook/Exchange. Android has some pretty good Exchange integration, but not as good as WinMo.
Turning on 4G kills the battery pretty quick. The battery cover is pretty cheesey compared to the HD2's. Android market beats Microsoft's marketplace handily.
I've been playing around with the HTC Desire, which also has Adroid on it and I was amazed by it's responsiveness. In other words, it's fast!
As you can see in the review, browsing the internet on the HD2 (this is probably a opera mobile browser thing) is annoying, as you have to pan and zoom in/out all the time; the browser adjusts pages for you, but not always in a convenient way.
The Android market is huge, and mostly free. But that doesn't get me enthousiastic, as I have found all my application for WinMo here on XDA (you gotta love this site, big thanks for all the developers!).
Google Maps Turn by Turn navigation isn't available for WinMo (that's correct right?) yet. I'd really love to have that feature on my HD2.
I'd also like to have the one button press to get an overview of all the home-tabs as in Android on my HD2, but maybe this is already developed or being developed.
So, for me, in the end, I'll stay with my HD2 for a while (at least 10 months as my contract will then be renewed (yay for "free" phones ) Maybe by then Android will have left WinMo even further behind.
Seemless outlook syncing, tomtom and garmin keep me with windows mobile...
Never been tempted to android or iphone...
Its that simple for me...
My mate's trading in his hero for a desire... I'll grab it, play with it for a few minutes and give it back and say "yeah, nice...", then walk away thanking God I have my HD2...
Android and iphone interfaces may be smoother, but that's not the phone experience I'm worried about...
I'll stick with WM...
argentocruz said:
My mate's trading in his hero for a desire... I'll grab it, play with it for a few minutes and give it back and say "yeah, nice...", then walk away thanking God I have my HD2...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
x2.
My girlfriend has an iphone4, and a coworker of mine has the evo4g, and I really can't see myself using either of those phones on a daily basis. I like the minimalistic of cooking my own ROM, I like the idea of using whatever software I want, when I want, without having to fork over $2-3 dollars for it. Conversely, I want to be able to manage everything manually on my phone. I want to have the ability to establish where the cache is going to be, I want to be able to tweak and "mod" the behavior of the program im running. I don't want the OS to dictate that.
Basically it comes down to functionality and flexibility, and with Cookies Home Tab, no two HD2s are alike...which makes the phone that much more unique.
On the other hand, you could argue that the apps are what make the phone, but honestly, I dont need to further clutter my phone with countless sports score apps, food apps, or any of that junk. Everything basic amenities that a smart phone need are already available on the HD2/windows mobile.
i jumped from sprint to t-mobile after the evo was already out. I'm not interested in android at this time and I'm pretty sure with nrgz28's cht ROM, it's every bit as smooth as the iphone4 and evo.
What's sad about sprint for me was the data speeds on sprint (3g). I was getting only 500-700kbps. I'm getting 2000-3000 kbps on t-mobile on hspa with hspa+ rolling out this month (according to my local t-mobile). So my speeds right now are similar or close to sprint 4g, then will blow right past them very soon.
Honestly, I don't get the jump to android, especially an htc device. Sense is very similar on both and you hardly dig into winmo anymore anyways.
I think that if you have 4g in your area, go for the evo if you are looking for something different, but if not, and your t-mobile coverage is good, you might as well wait at least till this fall and see what is coming out (like all the galaxy s and galaxy s pros). Not to mention there is some sweet spec'd wp7 coming down the pipe (1.5 ghz snap dragon anyone???).
lude219 said:
x2.
My girlfriend has an iphone4, and a coworker of mine has the evo4g, and I really can't see myself using either of those phones on a daily basis. I like the minimalistic of cooking my own ROM, I like the idea of using whatever software I want, when I want, without having to fork over $2-3 dollars for it. Conversely, I want to be able to manage everything manually on my phone. I want to have the ability to establish where the cache is going to be, I want to be able to tweak and "mod" the behavior of the program im running. I don't want the OS to dictate that.
Basically it comes down to functionality and flexibility, and with Cookies Home Tab, no two HD2s are alike...which makes the phone that much more unique.
On the other hand, you could argue that the apps are what make the phone, but honestly, I dont need to further clutter my phone with countless sports score apps, food apps, or any of that junk. Everything basic amenities that a smart phone need are already available on the HD2/windows mobile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
customizabilty FTW! thats why i stick with winmo too. i can make my phone completely my own.
im sick of the whole "app store" argument too. iphone & android have oh so many apps... most of which are stupid games & frivolous bull****. winmo has as many apps as they do, theyre just not all organized in the app store yet. most of them are actually useful too. MS only recently made an app store cause googling for the app they want is too much work for most people & they were losing out to the competition.
why would you go from hd2 to evo when hd2 can run android too?
i'll stick to a Windoes mobile phone no matter what....dunno why, s'pose it's like a PC....no way would i change to apple (IMHO) s**T like that.
prob change my phone in 3 months, maybe even a year, but whatever it will be, it'll definitely be a windows operating system.
Matt
I know a lot of ppl have had trouble with their WinMo phone, bugginess and other factors but, after delving deep into alternative OSes for my HD2, I have come to the conclusion that WinMo is the best you can get for your HD2. Mine is supremely more useful than any of the Android ROMs I've used. And HTC-Sense really makes WinMo a top-notch OS. I am able with just a quick flick or tap get to whatever homescreen tab I need to show me all I need to know instantly. No need to scroll through homescreens or activate apps just to see at a glance what's happening. The Sense slider is brilliant.
The markets for WinMo aren't nearly as bad as some would have you believe. I find the WinMo Marketplace to be functionally as good as the Android market. That isn't saying it has all of the apps, it has plenty apps, though. The games lack severely, but even among those, there are gems to be had. But, after playing with the iOS market, Android market and even the WP7 market, WinMo market is just a pure pleasure.
There is so much WinMo can do that it is a shame it didn't receive the market share it deserves. I know it can be buggy, but with proper and simplistic maintenance, it can be a sweet ride. I never had any issues with the OEM ROM, but I'm using a custom ROM. As long as I keep it managed, it is a sweetheart. WinMo isn't the smoothest or fastest mobile OS around, but it is more than smooth and fast enough to be a pure pleasure. It, in fact, is smoother than a lot of Androids. Plus the GPS and Bing voice nav works better than Android. It boots quicker and locks quicker.
When you get tired of the battery drains and bugginess of Android, or the non-permanent nature of WP7 on HD2, come home to a nice WinMo w/HTC-Sense ROM.
I'm selling my Leo after using it for a week or so with Android. The buyer is getting it for his father because the screen is so large. I told him that I was very impressed with the Sense interface that HTC put on this phone and that his father should be able to use it easily and that with the replaced digitizer, it should do him well for a long time.
There's a lot to be said for software designed to work on the hardware. It's why, 14 months on, my Nexus One remains un-rooted. Why bother?
kampf said:
I'm selling my Leo after using it for a week or so with Android. The buyer is getting it for his father because the screen is so large. I told him that I was very impressed with the Sense interface that HTC put on this phone and that his father should be able to use it easily and that with the replaced digitizer, it should do him well for a long time.
There's a lot to be said for software designed to work on the hardware. It's why, 14 months on, my Nexus One remains un-rooted. Why bother?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's how I feel. As good as the Android devs did with their ROMs, they just didn't feel right. They were like a mask over the hardware and not the real deal. I suppose if the ROMs weren't so battery hungry or buggy, they would be acceptable. But, like you said, there's something to be said for a native ROM.
Try SPB MobileShell 3.5 and it's even better
First android rom I tried just had the android interface, and frankly it sucked balls, clunky with a horrible keyboard (like WP7's, it's the 21st century so why should i have to go to a different overlay just to get numbers?) and a really basic email client.
The only good things about it were kindle and the ability to access more than one exchange account (work and personal).
Then I found one of Dandiest's android builds, with sense, and it was actually usable, HTC have done a good job improving android with sense.
It's still not as good as WM with SPB MS (haven't tried version 5 for android yet), but it's bearable. Unfortunately as I need access to two exchange accounts I find myself using android most of the time, but I won't ditch WM, being able to dual boot gives me the best of both worlds, so when I need a decent navigation tool, I can flip to WM and run TomTom.
Wish someone would reengineer WM so that it can handle a second exchange account, then I'd go back to it pretty much all the time.
Hey guys
After experiencing Android Gingerbread on Xperia Arc S and Windows Phone 7.5 on HTC Radar,I've decided to sell my iPhone and go with another OS.
I'm pretty much torn between Galaxy Nexus and HTC Titan.After watching/reading reviews,I still can't decide.
Of course Nexus has a better screen,more customizable OS but on the other hand,Titan has a better camera and I kinda adore the WP7 UI.It's butter smooth
The prices of both phones are roughly the same in where I live.
Thoughts ?
Go for it, I have no regrets.
You mean Titan right ?
My wife's had a Windows Phone (Samsung Focus) since the release and absolutely loves it. I have an 3GS and recently switched over to an Android phone (Atrix 2 running 2.3.5), but I ended up returning the phone and going back to using my old iphone. Android has a ton of cool capabilities, but it's like running linux, the possibilities are endless, but you spend a lot more time tinkering than doing. There's also no cohesive hub for connecting up to your PC and syncing music/videos/pictures, you have a run a number of extra utilities.
The pitfall of Windows Phone is that not enough people use it, so isn't the developer support, so there aren't as many big apps, so not as many people use it.
My big sticking point is that the makers of my motorcycle helmet cam don't have any immediate plans to develop a WP7 version of their remote viewfinder app. Best thing to do is install the Zune software on your PC and browse the marketplace; if the apps are there to let you do what you need to, WP7 (7.5) is pretty badass in integrating between your PC and your Xbox and it feels a lot more polished than the Android or Iphone interfaces.
spd_rcr said:
My wife's had a Windows Phone (Samsung Focus) since the release and absolutely loves it. I have an 3GS and recently switched over to an Android phone (Atrix 2 running 2.3.5), but I ended up returning the phone and going back to using my old iphone. Android has a ton of cool capabilities, but it's like running linux, the possibilities are endless, but you spend a lot more time tinkering than doing. There's also no cohesive hub for connecting up to your PC and syncing music/videos/pictures, you have a run a number of extra utilities.
The pitfall of Windows Phone is that not enough people use it, so isn't the developer support, so there aren't as many big apps, so not as many people use it.
My big sticking point is that the makers of my motorcycle helmet cam don't have any immediate plans to develop a WP7 version of their remote viewfinder app. Best thing to do is install the Zune software on your PC and browse the marketplace; if the apps are there to let you do what you need to, WP7 (7.5) is pretty badass in integrating between your PC and your Xbox and it feels a lot more polished than the Android or Iphone interfaces.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks
Yep the only thing I worry about WP7 is the apps but I searched the market place and I found my essential apps such as Twitter and some games.
twitter and facebook also is built in to the messaging hub, not to say that the app doesn't have extra functions.
After owning Android and WM7 phones I would go with WM7 if I were to stray from my iPhone. I just ordered a Titan with Mango. Giving it another go! I have yet to read a bad review on the Titan or Mango.
I know everybody talks about the customization of Android but honestly, that gets old after awhile. At the end of the day I just want a reliable working device.
theorioles33 said:
After owning Android and WM7 phones I would go with WM7 if I were to stray from my iPhone. I just ordered a Titan with Mango. Giving it another go! I have yet to read a bad review on the Titan or Mango.
I know everybody talks about the customization of Android but honestly, that gets old after awhile. At the end of the day I just want a reliable working device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have 1 of each (Nexus & Titan), and if you made me have to decide I would have to go with Nexus/Android.
I have an iPhone 4s as well, it's back in it's box.