Related
Just wondering. If and when we get custom rom's (fingers crossed for cyanogenmod) how are we going to deal with playing the HD content we've come to love on the archos'? (Hell, its pretty much the only thing it can do without struggling it seems). As the video player is archos code.. hopefully can pull it out of rom without problem when have full root. But if not its a bit of a drag as I haven't found any other player on android which plays as much and as well as the archos one.
Does the source code which was released earlier Contain the code to get hdmi-out/video player stuff? I'm guessing not
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
They can just leave it in the ROM right? I mean I don't think they will be writing them from scratch. Just modifying the existing roms.
given that the performance of the rom is worse than what I was running on the G1 i kinda hope that people WILL be cooking from scratch.
thefunkygibbon said:
given that the performance of the rom is worse than what I was running on the G1 i kinda hope that people WILL be cooking from scratch.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i understand where you are coming from, but imo that's going a little far. maybe i am misunderstanding you a bit. the issues are because it is hardware that is not meant to have android running on it.
even if it was feasible for people to "start from scratch" or even from the base android froyo source(not archos) I think it would call for more work than using the source and going backward.
rom devs have gotten good at picking apart and re-arranging, but starting from scratch is very difficult. rarely in any kind of programming are you "starting from scratch"
digibucc said:
i understand where you are coming from, but imo that's going a little far. maybe i am misunderstanding you a bit. the issues are because it is hardware that is not meant to have android running on it.
even if it was feasible for people to "start from scratch" or even from the base android froyo source(not archos) I think it would call for more work than using the source and going backward.
rom devs have gotten good at picking apart and re-arranging, but starting from scratch is very difficult. rarely in any kind of programming are you "starting from scratch"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hardware not meant to have android? eh? what aspect are you talking about? its only the chipset that would really matter. hardware rarely is made for software, its usually the other way around. the snapdragon cpu in this device is the same cpu that is in my desire (apparently) .. yes the "motherboard" or whatever the equivalent is when it comes to these sort of devices and memory might be different spec and maybe worse than other devices, they could be contributing towards the poor performance compared to other devices running the same cpu. but i would tend to suggest that the rom optimisation has a very large contribution to the poor performance of this (and many other) devices.
thefunkygibbon said:
hardware not meant to have android? eh? what aspect are you talking about? its only the chipset that would really matter. hardware rarely is made for software, its usually the other way around. the snapdragon cpu in this device is the same cpu that is in my desire (apparently) .. yes the "motherboard" or whatever the equivalent is when it comes to these sort of devices and memory might be different spec and maybe worse than other devices, they could be contributing towards the poor performance compared to other devices running the same cpu. but i would tend to suggest that the rom optimisation has a very large contribution to the poor performance of this (and many other) devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that was google's own answer.
android is meant to have a mobile network, cell phone network. it's also not meant to be at the size or resolution of the (A70/101) screen. those two things alone cause the majority of the problems people have with non-archos android apps
Google themselves said they do not support Android on tablets, as they are not made for them. i can't be more specific as i only know so much about Android, but if Google said it wasn't made for it, that's what i say too.
the performance of the system on certain hardware is nothing to do with googles comment. they said that in relation to the user experience/app compatibility/screen scaling side of things. covering their own ass with the plethora of tablets coming out and wanting to distance itself from the responsibility that joe public will assume they should have (when, rightly so, its not)
as for the phone network/gps etc they are the arbitary "minimum specs" that google set out to govern what devices would be allowed to use the google marketplace and other built in google apps. again it is just a way of trying to gain some form of quality control with the amount of people creating android based systems on crap hardware.
google dont "support" them anyway. its open source.
ya know what, nevermind.
you are 100% right, never doubt that.
digibucc said:
ya know what, nevermind.
you are 100% right, never doubt that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ummmm ok
When we start to get some optimized kernels I'm sure we'll see a nice performance boost. You don't have to rebuild the entire ROM from scratch to see significant improvements. Hopefully we'll get a custom bootloader. As a side note the Archos 70/101 has an OMAP 3640 which is a good deal faster than the snapdragon, first-gen anyway.
digibucc said:
i understand where you are coming from, but imo that's going a little far. maybe i am misunderstanding you a bit. the issues are because it is hardware that is not meant to have android running on it.
even if it was feasible for people to "start from scratch" or even from the base android froyo source(not archos) I think it would call for more work than using the source and going backward.
rom devs have gotten good at picking apart and re-arranging, but starting from scratch is very difficult. rarely in any kind of programming are you "starting from scratch"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
digibucc said:
that was google's own answer.
android is meant to have a mobile network, cell phone network. it's also not meant to be at the size or resolution of the (A70/101) screen. those two things alone cause the majority of the problems people have with non-archos android apps
Google themselves said they do not support Android on tablets, as they are not made for them. i can't be more specific as i only know so much about Android, but if Google said it wasn't made for it, that's what i say too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
99% of what you've just written is wrong and/or has never been uttered by anyone at Google.
It's like everything you've just posted was gleaned from a game of telephone rather than a primary, secondary, or even tertiary source.
REAVER117 said:
When we start to get some optimized kernels I'm sure we'll see a nice performance boost. You don't have to rebuild the entire ROM from scratch to see significant improvements. Hopefully we'll get a custom bootloader. As a side note the Archos 70/101 has an OMAP 3640 which is a good deal faster than the snapdragon, first-gen anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Per /proc/cpuinfo it should actually be a 3630-1000, same as the Droid X (amongst others).
JasonOT said:
99% of what you've just written is wrong and/or has never been uttered by anyone at Google.
It's like everything you've just posted was gleaned from a game of telephone rather than a primary, secondary, or even tertiary source.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so i just take your word for it instead?
how often do programmers re-write something that has already been done, from scratch? i'm not saying it doesn't happen - i'm saying far more often code gets recycled. if something is already made, there is no reason to reinvent the wheel.
and thank you for your primary, secondary and tertiary sources - as well as your enlightening explanation of what is true.
i can accept when I am wrong, but not just because some random person on the internet tells me I am, with nothing to prove his point any more than my own.
@digibucc
thefunkygibbon already gave you the answers why you're wrong
chulri said:
@digibucc
thefunkygibbon already gave you the answers why you're wrong
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sure -
that's why thefunkygibbon explained it away as unimportant , yet Jason argues it was never even said...
well which is it chulri, if you are paying attention so well?
digibucc said:
sure -
that's why thefunkygibbon explained it away as unimportant , yet Jason argues it was never even said...
well which is it chulri, if you are paying attention so well?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you being obtuse for a reason?
A device made to run android by Archos, and comes booting ONLY Android OS by default... is being said as not being made to run android....
Smells like trolling to me.
Maybe people just like to troll for no reason, blazingwolf.
why do you people think they didn't come with Google Apps! Google doesn't support it! We never would have had to use g4a if they did...
obtuse? trolling? what is wrong with you you guys! I just said what i read, and everyone starts attacking me without anything to back up their side.
http://phandroid.com/2010/09/10/sho...d-not-meant-for-tablets-in-its-current-state/
http://www.dailytech.com/Google+Say...ets+May+Block+App+Market+Use/article19592.htm
http://androidcommunity.com/android...ays-google-may-block-app-market-use-20100910/
http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/10/google-android-2-2-not-designed-for-the-tablet-form-factor/
need more???
http://www.intomobile.com/2010/09/10/google-android-2-2-froyo-not-optimized-for-tablets/
http://www.techradar.com/news/phone...gle-android-not-optimised-for-tablets--715550
http://nexus404.com/Blog/2010/09/10...droid-market-but-the-galaxy-tab-doesnt-count/
grow up please, I thought this place would be better than archosfriends, but not if everyone comes here and acts the same.
someone show me how what i said is not true. i am not purposely arguing with anyone, and i am not a damn troll! I just read something, repeated it, and got slammed for it. yet no one has shown how i was wrong, you just keep saying it. show me and i'll admit it, otherwise just drop it, please.
digibucc said:
why do you people think they didn't come with Google Apps! Google doesn't support it! We never would have had to use g4a if they did...
obtuse? trolling? what is wrong with you you guys! I just said what i read, and everyone starts attacking me without anything to back up their side.
http://phandroid.com/2010/09/10/sho...d-not-meant-for-tablets-in-its-current-state/
http://www.dailytech.com/Google+Say...ets+May+Block+App+Market+Use/article19592.htm
http://androidcommunity.com/android...ays-google-may-block-app-market-use-20100910/
http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/10/google-android-2-2-not-designed-for-the-tablet-form-factor/
need more???
http://www.intomobile.com/2010/09/10/google-android-2-2-froyo-not-optimized-for-tablets/
http://www.techradar.com/news/phone...gle-android-not-optimised-for-tablets--715550
http://nexus404.com/Blog/2010/09/10...droid-market-but-the-galaxy-tab-doesnt-count/
grow up please, I thought this place would be better than archosfriends, but not if everyone comes here and acts the same.
someone show me how what i said is not true. i am not purposely arguing with anyone, and i am not a damn troll! I just read something, repeated it, and got slammed for it. yet no one has shown how i was wrong, you just keep saying it. show me and i'll admit it, otherwise just drop it, please.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. "it is hardware that is not meant to have android running on it."
It's running the same CPU/GPU SOC as the Droid X with half the RAM. It has a capacitive display. The only real difference is the resolution of the display and lack of cellular radio. That's a far cry from what you wrote.
If it were, say, Android running on an old PowerPC CPU, you'd be correct.
2. "android is meant to have a mobile network, cell phone network."
Uhh, no. There's no reason Android needs a mobile network.
3. "it's also not meant to be at the size or resolution of the (A70/101) screen."
While true, it's rather irrelevant. And the statement that followed it...
4. " those two things alone cause the majority of the problems people have with non-archos android apps"
...is completely wrong.
For starters, the majority of people aren't having problems with non-Archos apps. Secondly, the majority of people having problems, are having problems due to Archos' distribution of Froyo. Those that stayed with 2.1 aren't having nearly as many problems.
Yes, a small handful of apps don't work well due to the increased resolution. A small handful of apps will only cover a portion of the display. Note that they are a small handful. The vast vast majority of Android apps work perfectly well on the Archos tabs.
5. "Google themselves said they do not support Android on tablets, as they are not made for them. i can't be more specific as i only know so much about Android, but if Google said it wasn't made for it, that's what i say too."
"Not made for them" is, again, a far cry from the truth. Not designed with tablets in mind, or even not optimized, is more like it. Like thefunkygibbon already told you, Google making those comments was strictly to cover their own asses when people get upset that they can't play games like Guitar Hero -- that represent maybe 5% of all apps -- because they aren't well coded and cannot scale to greater resolutions.
You've made a mountain out of a moehill, and the 7 links you just posted support this notion. So yes, obtuse and/or trolling are both justified descriptions of your Chicken Little act.
It's true its not made for tablets. It will work on them, but it was made with phones in mind. In other words, its a matter of the thought behind the software. What it is catered to. Its mostly the little things. Icon spacing on the default home page. Lots of little things. If they didn't make that statement they would get slammed about all of those little things. Its not really a hardware issue, more of a functionality and UI issue.
I have not updated my Evo View Tablet to Honeycomb for the unacceptable flaws in its' design. I can't believe more people are not in uproar about this.
I used a View Tablet with the Honeycomb update, and it has some major design flaws, here they are:
-The top 25% of the screen can not be used to place widgets and/or apps
-The white soft-key buttons are disabled (how does it make sense to render a piece of hardware on the device useless? )
-The menu icon on the bottom appears while in certain situations and migrates to the top in other situations
-The notification pull down (or pull up rather) menu is scattered and sloppy.
-The main settings window has a glaring white background , where as on all other android software , it has always been a black background.
the GO-launcher is necessary in order to actually utilize the entire screen, and to ofcoarse customize the grid sizes , icon sizes, resize widgets, but the bottom on-screen buttons end up creating a sort of glitch at the bottom of the screen.
Threads like these have been made before, the most common "gb vs hc". Similar opinions have been expressed there. No need to create a new thread to explain and whine about what has been explained and whined about. Don't like it? Downgrade. Nobody is stopping you.
AidenM said:
Threads like these have been made before, the most common "gb vs hc". Similar opinions have been expressed there. No need to create a new thread to explain and whine about what has been explained and whined about. Don't like it? Downgrade. Nobody is stopping you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you can't downgrade , unless you "root" the thing.
Im sorry, i was not aware there was "gb vs hc" threads, i haven't found any on this forum.
You know..there are a few things I want from my tablet not currently offered..
Once the pen functionality gets imported into an ICS rom, no one is even going to care about HC or Gb anyway..
And if they release the code for that we will be able to perfect the fujitsu cheapo version.. too...
Hm.. I really need to set up my comp to contribute to a project. x.x
see , you guys are adept at installing custom roms and "rooting" but for those of that just want to stick with factory default software, we're at mercy to these ridiculous flaws . Luckily , Gingerbread works perfectly , especially in conjunction with GOLauncherEx
Scoh said:
-The white soft-key buttons are disabled (how does it make sense to render a piece of hardware on the device useless? )
-The menu icon on the bottom appears while in certain situations and migrates to the top in other situations
-The main settings window has a glaring white background , where as on all other android software , it has always been a black background.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While there are some valid points to your criticisms, it's important to recognize that the blame for some of these items doesn't rest with Honeycomb. Where the menu icon appears is dictated within the app itself. It's true that the placement is inconsistent but I think that stems from some apps being optimized for phones (when it's on the bottom) and some being optimized for tablets (when it's on the top right).
While it may be sub-optimal to turn of the soft keys, it's still better than if they had been actual physical buttons, and it was HTC's decision in the first place to release a tablet that doesn't run the tablet OS. I feel that they actually did a decent job dealing with the issue, as I don't notice the soft keys now that they're off. Would I turn them back on, given the option? Maybe - I don't know yet. Would the menu button work consistently in all apps? I don't know that either.
I think some of the issues you have deal with HTC Sense, especially within the Settings. I too hate how the settings look, but the stock Honeycomb Settings (and dialog boxes, etc) are much less offensive.
Snow_fox said:
You know..there are a few things I want from my tablet not currently offered..
Once the pen functionality gets imported into an ICS rom, no one is even going to care about HC or Gb anyway..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I too am hoping ICS becomes reality on the Flyer/View, but in all fairness it's not going to drastically change the user experience compared to HC. The HC-specific complaints here apply to ICS too.
mmmatches said:
I too am hoping ICS becomes reality on the Flyer/View, but in all fairness it's not going to drastically change the user experience compared to HC. The HC-specific complaints here apply to ICS too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Except that can active the hardware buttons and remove the onscreen buttons thus offering you more screen space...
Scoh said:
see , you guys are adept at installing custom roms and "rooting" but for those of that just want to stick with factory default software, we're at mercy to these ridiculous flaws . Luckily , Gingerbread works perfectly , especially in conjunction with GOLauncherEx
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you have the ability to read you have the ability to learn, therefore you have the ability to root.
If you don't want to root/jailbreak your at the mercy of ridiculous flaws no matter what.
Every device has flaws that most people would love to change from the iphone to android to all the windows mobile phones.
If you don't believe me, examine the "jailbreak culture".
Not trying to be mean, but if a device doesn't do what you want and your not willing to do something about it.. then it is hard to take your complaints entirely seriously..
A lot of people here put forth a lot of time and energy fixing the things your complaining about. When your unwilling to read and use their solutions and you complain anyway.. your complaints are likely to be met with some degree of hostility.
The culture of XDA isn't "epinions" or "newegg reviews" it is one of learning, teaching and hands on experience.
I respect the fact that people want different things in their devices, and even request things here.. But, when your not requesting, your not asking if something is possible to work on it yourself.. Your essentially saying "WAH i don't want to put forth the effort to fix something that is possible to be fixed, but I want you guys to listen to me complain anyway!"..
I have learned the hard way that within the more nerdy subculture of modding there is a tendency of "Read, learn, or go find someone who cares".
I like my flyer
Sent from my HTC Flyer P510e using xda premium
[email protected] said:
Except that can active the hardware buttons and remove the onscreen buttons thus offering you more screen space...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
TIL - interesting. The thing I keep running into, mentally, with ICS is that it still has two distinct interfaces, one for phones and the other for tablets. While the UI is now more consistent, phone ICS retains the top status bar like GB while tablet ICS is not too different from HC.
Won't any ICS build that ends up on the Flyer/View be tablet-based? If so, it seems that the status bar would always be on the bottom, buttons or not. It will be interesting to see how this develops.
mmmatches said:
TIL - interesting. The thing I keep running into, mentally, with ICS is that it still has two distinct interfaces, one for phones and the other for tablets. While the UI is now more consistent, phone ICS retains the top status bar like GB while tablet ICS is not too different from HC.
Won't any ICS build that ends up on the Flyer/View be tablet-based? If so, it seems that the status bar would always be on the bottom, buttons or not. It will be interesting to see how this develops.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One of the major points of ICS is to provide flexibility to all needed hardware.
Even if tablet based, they will probably account for the buttons.
ICS is essentially HC with a few new features thrown in and the ability to run on smaller screens. They even share most of the same source code. Since ICS is built on top of HC, don't expect drastic changes. Most of what people whine about can already be easily gotten on rooted ROMs and it will continue to be that way with ICS. Rooting gives you the opportunity to have it your way to a greater extent. But you can't have it your way all the way, that only happens at Burger King.
Considering HTC designed tablet HW for the outdated GB OS, its not that bad. Yeah the hard buttons are now a relic of the late 90s, but the Flyer still screams and look pretty darn good with HC.
And since we are on a rant thread. Why the @%## can't we have a thread about important stuff like this from the CES show?
http://www.tomshardware.com/picturestory/584-ces-2012-booth-babe-model.html#xtor=RSS-182
The View with Honeycomb is a true small tablet. With GB it's really a big phone. Some people want a tablet, some want a phone. Your call on what you want. I love HC and would love even more to see ICS. With cypher-rom and dolphin browser, my tablet pulls up web pages just as fast as my girlfriend's transformer prime, which is shocking to me at least. Can't wait till we get an OC kernel for honeycomb on the view.
abhaxus said:
The View with Honeycomb is a true small tablet. With GB it's really a big phone. Some people want a tablet, some want a phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is a great way to describe it. With ICS' flexibility it will be interesting to see if someone makes a ROM with the phone status bar and HW buttons - would be very GB-like!
Scoh said:
I can't believe more people are not in uproar about this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you read around this forum just a little, you would know the these issues have been discussed ad nauseum.
I disagree that HC is a downgrade. Yes there are downsides (and you pointed most of them out, but left off a couple of others such as the reduction in the number of home screens) but there are two major upsides that seal the deal for me:
1) The ability to use the pen in all apps is huge. I've got drawing programs that were simply begging for pen input in GB that suddenly fulfil their full potential in HC. Also, if you ever RDP to a windows worstation, having the pen available for choosing tiny menu items is a vast improvement over having to use your big fat finger.
2) Honeycomb fixes the bug in Gingerbread in which when placed in landscape mode and paired to a bluetooth keyboard the arrow keys do not map correctly. In Honecomb they do, and given the amount of writing I do on my Flyer this, too, is massive.
mmmatches said:
This is a great way to describe it. With ICS' flexibility it will be interesting to see if someone makes a ROM with the phone status bar and HW buttons - would be very GB-like!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is the number 2 reason I want ICS... Number one is full HW acceleration makes a single core tab feel very dual core (gf has a nexus s with cm9, the difference was astonishing). Actually... Number 2 is the task switching is very webos
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
The only two negatives I have since updating are the battery seems to drain faster and I miss the hardware buttons. Other than that I think HoneyComb is better. The internet no longer crashes, use to crash at least twice a day with Gingerbread. Also like being able to better organize the icons on the home screen.
mcord11758 said:
I like my flyer
Sent from my HTC Flyer P510e using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well said.
10chcar
Snow_fox said:
If you have the ability to read you have the ability to learn, therefore you have the ability to root.
If you don't want to root/jailbreak your at the mercy of ridiculous flaws no matter what.
Every device has flaws that most people would love to change from the iphone to android to all the windows mobile phones.
If you don't believe me, examine the "jailbreak culture".
Not trying to be mean, but if a device doesn't do what you want and your not willing to do something about it.. then it is hard to take your complaints entirely seriously..
A lot of people here put forth a lot of time and energy fixing the things your complaining about. When your unwilling to read and use their solutions and you complain anyway.. your complaints are likely to be met with some degree of hostility.
The culture of XDA isn't "epinions" or "newegg reviews" it is one of learning, teaching and hands on experience.
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This. Well said. I don't mean it in a harsh way either. I was completely phone/computer impaired before I decided I didn't want to wait for voice to text (2.1) on my moto droid. It took about ten minutes to root and flash that phone. Now I'm hooked, and I learned a TON of stuff in the process. If your upset enough to post about it, shouldn't you be motivated enough to spend a few minutes just fixing it yourself
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using xda premium
I just don't get this nonsense. I get why companies are screwing this all up but what I don't get is why we all continue to allow this. The Android update process is broken and there have been a flood of articles on the net talking about the subject. Not one that I have read has come even close to the right solution. Really testing what little faith I have left in the human race. Why so dramatic? Because we have been using the model for our Windows PC for years and yet in somebody's great wisdom chose what we have here and now. Cmon!
Could you imagine getting your Windows PC updates from Time Warner Cable? What a disaster that would be right? What do you think would happen with our PC updates? Exactly what we are dealing with right now on Android. I just don't see what the problem is. Google develops and distributes the OS and updates directly to the end user. The phone manufacturer supplies the appropriate drivers on their website and the carrier keeps their greasy mitts off my phone. Win win for everyone.
I posted this because I think its the best solution. Its better than what we have now that's for sure. What I'm hoping to get out of this post is that you either agree with me or you have a better solution we can all get behind and push for. I know the Windows way isn't perfect and some things will have to be done differently but we don't need to be concerned with all the details. In other words for Example.....Dear Verizon, Samsung, Google. This is how we want out updates. Just get it done and deal with it.
Full Disclosure: Yeah I'm posting this because I'm pretty heated this hasn't been seriously addressed yet. I'm heated more people aren't pushing for more of a Windows update process. I'm heated because I bought a Galaxy Nexus this time around to avoid this and still getting screwed. I'm heated because All my phones have greater potential and we are proving it here at XDA everyday.
One more thought. We really shouldn't be buying our hardware from the carriers either. All any of them have proven so far is that they can run a pretty stable dumb pipe. Every other venture has failed. Like Vcast. I just dont trust them with what may soon replace my wallet among many other things. It could very well be our most personal possessions in these times and they control every aspect we allow them to. It needs to stop. What do you think? Do you want the windows way? Or do you have a better idea?
Long term there are definitely some issues that need to be fixed with Android.
Bloatware is one of the things that annoys me, and judging from the reviews left on Google Play, it annoys everybody. I'm fine with them preinstalling crap on my phone even though I don't like it, PC OEMs have been doing this for years. But it should be completely uninstallable without root.
For OS updates I see no reason why minor versions (ex: 2.3.6 to 2.3.7) can't be distributed from Google to all phones. These updates shouldn't affect drivers and would be similar to Windows Updates. But more people are concerned with major version updates which can't be done this way as they involve driver and/or kernel updates.
Google has a very hands off policy when it comes to Android it seems. OEMs are given a lot of freedom and Google doesn't do much to help them bring updates quickly. This hands off approach may have been a good business model in the early days of Android when Google just wanted to get it out there by any means possible, but I think they need to be more involved now. They should allow OEMs in on development earlier by giving them access to early builds of the next version similar to how Microsoft does. The reason PC OEMs get the newest version on their systems so quickly is because OEMs and hardware manufacturers get to use betas even before the public can. This model may not work on Android, but I really think Google needs to reassess their stance on Android, its not 2009 anymore.
This sort of issues with android is holding back...a lot of companies like presonus (pro audio) dont even bother with developing controlling software for their hardware on android...
Its a shame because we have some very capable hardware but ať least with apple **** they do the work once and it works...
If they were to make applications and have to deal with different hardware and screen resolutions they wouldnt have time to do their job..
A shame that oné day i might have to buy an iPad because of them
the long and short of it is no, at the moment they cant. Windows works because it is a modular kernel which allows for drivers to be installed and therefore easy customisations to be made. Linux is a monolithic kernel which means it needs all drivers for all configurations of hardware in it and then it uses the ones it needs. Android uses the linux kernel so it is difficult to support all the different kinds of hardware on phones in one kernel without it getting huge and hard to manage.
That is before you get to the need to have basebands/amss working with the kernel to provide mobile phone connection and hardware management. You also need bootloaders, recovery consoles etc to work on every phone. Only once those components are in place can you start to talk about keeping the android system up to date on top of those.
Google can't do it all unless they start over and make tools that are compatible with all kinds of hardware.
The easiest way is probably to make a google certification requirement that all manufacturers must support phones through 2-3 major update cycles. That does mean the end of cheap phones and lots of different and smaller niche products though.
Personally I think that the new hardware requirements for ICS are going to mean the end of ldpi and maybe even mdpi android phones as well as anything without a gpu, less than 512mb of ram and a 1ghz or so cpu. Maybe once the hardware becomes a bit more uniform, it will start to get easier to keep up to date too.
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This is a new concept to me. There are no PCs that "just don't like Windows". With the same hardware, a PC will run the same software at the same speed with the same stability. All SGS II i777's have the same hardware, don't they?
There are of course variations in the quality (=bin) of some components, but that just sets voltage boundaries for a given clockspeed (or in extreme cases, makes a phone defective), but this shouldn't affect how a ROM runs.
What am I missing?
Why do some problems persist on what seems to be a clean install on some phones, and don't manifest on others? Do some ROMs run better because of different recoveries? What's left after a full wipe?
Obviously, installed apps and settings will make a phone perform differently, but that aside, shouldn't all SGS II run the same?
Eckyx said:
This is a new concept to me. There are no PCs that "just don't like Windows". With the same hardware, a PC will run the same software at the same speed with the same stability. All SGS II i777's have the same hardware, don't they?
There are of course variations in the quality (=bin) of some components, but that just sets voltage boundaries for a given clockspeed (or in extreme cases, makes a phone defective), but this shouldn't affect how a ROM runs.
What am I missing?
Why do some problems persist on what seems to be a clean install on some phones, and don't manifest on others? Do some ROMs run better because of different recoveries? What's left after a full wipe?
Obviously, installed apps and settings will make a phone perform differently, but that aside, shouldn't all SGS II run the same?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Simple answer is no not all devices are made the same. You see this with mass produced hardware. As for your PC ref. My brother and I have the same laptop while mine loves my set up, my brother has nothing but problems with it on his system. It comes alot down to personal set up and device. This has always been the case with mobile devices and custom roms. Stock roms are set to run on all devices the same. This is not so with custom roms.
Eckyx said:
This is a new concept to me. There are no PCs that "just don't like Windows". With the same hardware, a PC will run the same software at the same speed with the same stability. All SGS II i777's have the same hardware, don't they?
There are of course variations in the quality (=bin) of some components, but that just sets voltage boundaries for a given clockspeed (or in extreme cases, makes a phone defective), but this shouldn't affect how a ROM runs.
What am I missing?
Why do some problems persist on what seems to be a clean install on some phones, and don't manifest on others? Do some ROMs run better because of different recoveries? What's left after a full wipe?
Obviously, installed apps and settings will make a phone perform differently, but that aside, shouldn't all SGS II run the same?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Zel pretty neatly answered this, but I will also add that modern consumer electronics interact with the immediate environment far more than our pcs do. Light sensors, 3g radios, barometers, etc. are far less deterministic than our classic closed-loop pcs. Part of this perception of flux is based on this real flux, for example one of the core features people will discuss is call/modem quality, but driver tweaking vs. actual signal strength is a pretty fuzzy battle for anyone but an electrical/firmware engineer. And just like in the pc world, when you're talking under volting and over clocking your mileage will vary.
If you are methodical and read all the materials, your phone will operate tip top. It seems to me a lot (not all) of the variances often do boil down to the users configuration.
Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner
I have fixed a lot of computers and have been flashing custom roms for a year and ill tell you, in my personal opinion, problems are 90% user error. If people would all install properly and wipe everything completely and follow everything they're told to do and read all possible material on what they're flashing they can, a huge portion of the problems would dissapear. But is that gonna happen? I hope so
Heck I make mistakes too. None of us are immune to screwing up right? Good luck all, happy flashing.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2
Eckyx said:
Obviously, installed apps and settings will make a phone perform differently, but that aside, shouldn't all SGS II run the same?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, they should and they do, absolutely with every ROM, stock or custom.
If they're purely, properly installed, they're all the same.
By "purely", I meant completely, virgin-like ROM without any add-on.
If you choose to install somethings else, to customize your needs or set it up the way you want, then it's a whole different ball game.
zelendel said:
Simple answer is no not all devices are made the same. You see this with mass produced hardware. As for your PC ref. My brother and I have the same laptop while mine loves my set up, my brother has nothing but problems with it on his system. It comes alot down to personal set up and device. This has always been the case with mobile devices and custom roms. Stock roms are set to run on all devices the same. This is not so with custom roms.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just to chime in on the Windows thing - we buy a standard build HP computer at work for all developers. But if you put the same Windows disk in two of them and boot and install accepting all the defaults, there will always be slight variations in the way it configures itself between the two. It's probably the hardware detection that does it, but I swear you could get two of the same build lot and you'd STILL get something that didn't set up the same way. Sunspots? Power surge during the process? I dunno, but it does vary
You cant change the disk. Your network adapter has a MAC adress on it... windows will know something has changed. motherboard also has one.
A PC component are not the same at all.
You can buy a good I7 2600k or a bad I7 2600k. There are revisions of the very same model of CPU, memory, everything and its really hard to make 1 equal another.
Another thing is that one smartphone is a lot more delicate piece of hardware and the most important, has limited power to it components.
That makes harder to change anything on it. A small change could lead you to a failure.
just blame it on the ghosts in the machine and be done with it
votinh said:
Yes, they should and they do, absolutely with every ROM, stock or custom.
If they're purely, properly installed, they're all the same.
By "purely", I meant completely, virgin-like ROM without any add-on.
If you choose to install somethings else, to customize your needs or set it up the way you want, then it's a whole different ball game.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is not the case. I have tested with two different EVO 4Gs and two different SGS IIs - of the same hardware revision, even.
I performed the same steps to root and ROM both of the sets of phones, and put the same ROM on them. There were no other apps installed, nor themes/addons. I then used each as my phone for a week, making sure that I installed identical apps and even synced app data.
Both performed differently. My i777 is the faster of the two, but my EVO 4G was the slower and more bug-prone.
Yes, this is anecdotal evidence, but I at least am convinced. Take it as you will.
Also the phones are made with lower quality checks than desktop. ie I can oc my sgs 1 up to 1.6GHz but uv of -25, the phone well restart. But other people can't go more than 1.2 and cab apply a uv of -150 on the same step.
This is a fact. Think if every phone it's done with high quality checks the price of the device will raise pretty high.
Once of the frustrating things is that the people responding on the forums, (ROM devs and regular users) often try to have it both ways.
If you're experiencing something they aren't, it's obviously your fault because it doesn't happen on their one phone so it can't possibly be anything but your own fault. Go wipe 50 times and do other things that will take 3+ hours each time and don't come back until you do.
Oh... you've done all that already and still having the issue? Oh well, all phones are different... tough luck, bro. I'm not going to spend any time on anything my one phone doesn't do.
(Never mind that a dozen other people have reported the exact same issue, and another several dozen are experiencing it but are too scared to post about it because they see how everyone else is being flamed, castrated or even banned for daring to suggest a bug.)
One way or another, it seems a convenient way to blow off users having legit issues.
While I suppose there might be slight deviations in components once in a blue moon, I think the "all phones are different" excuse is more often than not used as a way to easily dismiss people and issues without helping. It's been repeated over and over for so long now, the majority take it as "fact" without really putting much thought into how it could possibly be as widespread and dramatic as they're pretending it is.
I don't buy it.
Even just with modems... everyone's like, "Oh well all phones are different... some modems work better on some phones, or in different areas". What kind of BS is that? How on earth could any phone manufacturer then create a mass-market phone that worked across the country without hacking? I'm sorry, but you can't chastise and criticize the manufacturers for not producing the universal "uber-phone" that works great anywhere while at the same time admitting that "all phones are different" and therefore require hacking for your specific flavor or region. It's hypocritical.
I think it's very, very rare that actual hardware differences between the exact same model phone account for issues people experience, and is more often than not either user or dev (as much as they try to paint themselves as infallible gods) error that they don't want to bother with. "All phones are different" = "F-off, I don't want to deal with this"
sremick said:
Once of the frustrating things is that the people responding on the forums, (ROM devs and regular users) often try to have it both ways.
If you're experiencing something they aren't, it's obviously your fault because it doesn't happen on their one phone so it can't possibly be anything but your own fault. Go wipe 50 times and do other things that will take 3+ hours each time and don't come back until you do.
Oh... you've done all that already and still having the issue? Oh well, all phones are different... tough luck, bro. I'm not going to spend any time on anything my one phone doesn't do.
(Never mind that a dozen other people have reported the exact same issue, and another several dozen are experiencing it but are too scared to post about it because they see how everyone else is being flamed, castrated or even banned for daring to suggest a bug.)
One way or another, it seems a convenient way to blow off users having legit issues.
While I suppose there might be slight deviations in components once in a blue moon, I think the "all phones are different" excuse is more often than not used as a way to easily dismiss people and issues without helping. It's been repeated over and over for so long now, the majority take it as "fact" without really putting much thought into how it could possibly be as widespread and dramatic as they're pretending it is.
I don't buy it.
Even just with modems... everyone's like, "Oh well all phones are different... some modems work better on some phones, or in different areas". What kind of BS is that? How on earth could any phone manufacturer then create a mass-market phone that worked across the country without hacking? I'm sorry, but you can't chastise and criticize the manufacturers for not producing the universal "uber-phone" that works great anywhere while at the same time admitting that "all phones are different" and therefore require hacking for your specific flavor or region. It's hypocritical.
I think it's very, very rare that actual hardware differences between the exact same model phone account for issues people experience, and is more often than not either user or dev (as much as they try to paint themselves as infallible gods) error that they don't want to bother with. "All phones are different" = "F-off, I don't want to deal with this"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great so what you're saying is everyone that says this (especially devs) are a bunch of dicks. Nice.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2
Nick281051 said:
Great so what you're saying is everyone that says this (especially devs) are a bunch of dicks. Nice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's actually not what I said at all, but I know it's a lot easier to summarize my post into one sentence that makes me look like an ass, than actually look at the points that I made.
sremick said:
That's actually not what I said at all, but I know it's a lot easier to summarize my post into one sentence that makes me look like an ass, than actually look at the points that I made.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I read the whole thing and that's exactly what it says.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2
Nick281051 said:
I read the whole thing and that's exactly what it says.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope. But let me simplify it for you:
1) There can't be the level of hardware variation that people claim. It's not seen in other electronics, and it's not been seen before the recent generation of smartphones. The assumption of its existence is a recent phenomenon however if it were real we'd see it everywhere, on other electronics other than phones.
2) If it were to really exist, people would lose the ability to legitimately blame the phone manufacturers for 90% of what they currently give them crap about, especially in regards to making a quality stock ROM. What are they expected to do, create thousands of variations of stock ROMs, one for ever county in the USA to compensate for this accepted "all phones are different" theology?
3) Due to it being repeated over and over and simply assumed to be true without any actual evidence to the fact, it's become a convenient way to dismiss user issues... even in the face of mounting evidence to the contrary on a specific issue. This unfortunate trend causes lots of friction between users and devs. Even if it were true, it's now become an over-used dismissal without allowing for the chance that the user might be right.
People can't have it both ways, but right now there's a lot of hypocrisy. If it's true, there's been no evidence actually shown... just anecdotal experiences that could be chalked up to any number of other things. And whether it's true or its not, either way a massive amount of thinking and behavior would then have to then change... but right now, people behave like it's true and not true at the same time, which is nonsensical and frustrating.
The simple answer is, there is no answer. Its the nature of the process.
I've had one click roms fail the 1st attempt only to succeed the 2nd without even closing the Odin just reconnect the phone.
Either you accept that and have fun with it. Or stick to stock and move on.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using xda premium
sremick said:
Nope. But let me simplify it for you:
1) There can't be the level of hardware variation that people claim. It's not seen in other electronics, and it's not been seen before the recent generation of smartphones. The assumption of its existence is a recent phenomenon however if it were real we'd see it everywhere, on other electronics other than phones.
2) If it were to really exist, people would lose the ability to legitimately blame the phone manufacturers for 90% of what they currently give them crap about, especially in regards to making a quality stock ROM. What are they expected to do, create thousands of variations of stock ROMs, one for ever county in the USA to compensate for this accepted "all phones are different" theology?
3) Due to it being repeated over and over and simply assumed to be true without any actual evidence to the fact, it's become a convenient way to dismiss user issues... even in the face of mounting evidence to the contrary on a specific issue. This unfortunate trend causes lots of friction between users and devs. Even if it were true, it's now become an over-used dismissal without allowing for the chance that the user might be right.
People can't have it both ways, but right now there's a lot of hypocrisy. If it's true, there's been no evidence actually shown... just anecdotal experiences that could be chalked up to any number of other things. And whether it's true or its not, either way a massive amount of thinking and behavior would then have to then change... but right now, people behave like it's true and not true at the same time, which is nonsensical and frustrating.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No you're actually wrong because sometimes things CAN go wrong with flashing stuff. And modems in fact do work better in some places than others even though they try to make them universal it is very difficult to do that. Also, if a dev doesn't see a problem, how is he supposed to fix it? Riddle me that one. Also, restoring should take at most an hour with something like titanium backup. So 3+ hours is bull.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2
Nick281051 said:
if a dev doesn't see a problem, how is he supposed to fix it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He can start by not flaming the several people experiencing it (which scares away others also experiencing it, self-validating him and making him think the problem is less-common than it really is)
There's a difference between a problem being simply difficult for a dev to pin down and solve, and just attacking any user who dares bring up an issue that the dev himself isn't experiencing. Therein lies the hypocrisy, though: if "all phones are different", then a dev has to accept that a problem a user is experiencing might not be the result of stupidity on the user's part, and might actually be something in the ROM that simply didn't surface on the dev's phone, but is still something that needs to be addressed at the ROM level.
I totally accept that an issue the dev can't reproduce on his own phone is harder to resolve. But there are several devs who even make ROMs for phones they don't own anymore, and still manage to work with users to resolve issues. App devs do the same thing to resolve incompatibility bugs/issues with specific phone models the app dev don't own.
Also, restoring should take at most an hour with something like titanium backup. So 3+ hours is bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not quite. Just the backup alone takes 45+ mins on my phone. The restore is the same amount, so you've got 1.5 hours right there without taking into account everything else that TB doesn't handle that needs to be reconfigured by hand, or the actual flashing, and tracking down other surprises. And because I apparently am one of the few people who care about their data, I also back up my internal SD... just in-case something goes wrong. I know the wipe shouldn't touch it... but "**** happens" and if something goes wrong during a flash and I didn't have a backup, it'd be my own fault and I'd be subsequently flamed for that. So I play it safe.
Once again, a case of users for whom its quick trying to tell everyone else they're full of BS. I accept that for some users, whether it's the # of apps, amount of data, or whatever, it goes fast for them. Lucky them. Why can't they accept the fact that it's not "10 mins" for everyone like they spread around and flame others for suggesting otherwise?
Ok Here is the thing. I have personally been flashing and making custom roms for phones as far back as the Motorola razor v3. I have multiple phone running the exact same firmware, set up the exact same way and the have run totally differently. If all phone were made equal then there would be no returns due to issues the phone had as they would have all run the same and acted the same as the units that the OEM quality control tested. Lets take the Black Jack 2 as an example. The BJII was a WM phone that would self corrupt the system/media folder. This prevented any ringtones from working and the OS had to be reflashed. All this running on Stock firmware. This didnt happen to all of them, but became a well known glitch to anyone that did cell phone troubleshooting and repair. Did you ever stop to think why OEM and carriers dont use the roms from places like XDA? This is because things here are always under development. There will always be bugs. In the end the developers are making things for their phones and are nice enough to share it for others to use. Some do keep making roms for phones they dont have as this is overly not hard to do. They do this just to be nice. Except for the hardware drivers most of the under lying OS is all the same.
If a dev cant reproduce it then there is no way for them to fix it with the way people tend to report bugs. (The wrong way without the proper info)
Now lets jump to the present. I have 4 phones sitting on my desk. 2 are the HTC Inspire and 2 are the Samsung Captivate. Both running the exact same rom and apps, but guess what. They run very differently. On 1 Inspire and 1 captivate, I can OC to almost double, while the other 2 cant handle more then 1.2 over clock.
One of them also doesnt like the AOSP based software while the others are fine.
As for your backing up and restoring. It can take a long time if you have a TON of apps. Flashing custom roms are not for everyone. If you dont have the time or the want to learn something then you are doing it for the wrong reasons.
sremick said:
He can start by not flaming the several people experiencing it (which scares away others also experiencing it, self-validating him and making him think the problem is less-common than it really is)
There's a difference between a problem being simply difficult for a dev to pin down and solve, and just attacking any user who dares bring up an issue that the dev himself isn't experiencing. Therein lies the hypocrisy, though: if "all phones are different", then a dev has to accept that a problem a user is experiencing might not be the result of stupidity on the user's part, and might actually be something in the ROM that simply didn't surface on the dev's phone, but is still something that needs to be addressed at the ROM level.
I totally accept that an issue the dev can't reproduce on his own phone is harder to resolve. But there are several devs who even make ROMs for phones they don't own anymore, and still manage to work with users to resolve issues. App devs do the same thing to resolve incompatibility bugs/issues with specific phone models the app dev don't own.
Not quite. Just the backup alone takes 45+ mins on my phone. The restore is the same amount, so you've got 1.5 hours right there without taking into account everything else that TB doesn't handle that needs to be reconfigured by hand, or the actual flashing, and tracking down other surprises. And because I apparently am one of the few people who care about their data, I also back up my internal SD... just in-case something goes wrong. I know the wipe shouldn't touch it... but "**** happens" and if something goes wrong during a flash and I didn't have a backup, it'd be my own fault and I'd be subsequently flamed for that. So I play it safe.
Once again, a case of users for whom its quick trying to tell everyone else they're full of BS. I accept that for some users, whether it's the # of apps, amount of data, or whatever, it goes fast for them. Lucky them. Why can't they accept the fact that it's not "10 mins" for everyone like they spread around and flame others for suggesting otherwise?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with your point about the dev/user relationship. It can get pretty hostile sometimes which is completely unnecessary. Recently, I've been trying to emphasize the respect rule, regardless of who you are. Patience and cooperation can go a long way. And as zelendel said, sometimes people do report stuff the wrong way, but there's no need to be rude about it. Again, patience goes a long way.
Back to the main thing though, I'm not entirely sure how 2 fresh-out-of-the-box phones would work with the same settings and ROMs, but as others said, environmental and external factors can stress the phone and stuff just goes wrong. My phone, for example, would not operate the same as a fresh-out-of-the-box SGS2, even if you put the exact same stuff on it. Stuff just starts freaking out, and I'm pretty sure my phone is having hardware issues :[
What do you think? Since MM Doze never really officially worked, Nougat's "enhanced" Doze barely works.
I'm wondering what happend to Google? They release half working internal official releases. Has the Developers been there too long? Too tired to care make something great? Or is Google just hiring Developers that want to get their foot in the door with no experience?
Just something to think about as I'm seeing a fall in android which is very disappointing, I mean after 5 previews and an offical release you really cannot fix the Android System bug thats using same % as screen? Pretty embarrassing on Google if you ask me.
Been android quite awhile it was doing great but they just cant get it together anymore?
MM Doze never worked? It works exactly as they intended it to; when the phone is not moving.
digitalbot said:
What do you think? Since MM Doze never really officially worked, Nougat's "enhanced" Doze barely works.
I'm wondering what happend to Google? They release half working internal official releases. Has the Developers been there too long? Too tired to care make something great? Or is Google just hiring Developers that want to get their foot in the door with no experience?
Just something to think about as I'm seeing a fall in android which is very disappointing, I mean after 5 previews and an offical release you really cannot fix the Android System bug thats using same % as screen? Pretty embarrassing on Google if you ask me.
Been android quite awhile it was doing great but they just cant get it together anymore?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Go back to Apple you Apple scum!
On a serious note though, I disagree with pretty much everything you said.
Doze is working completely fine, and so is everything else.
There is no such "fall" in Android. As far as I know, pretty much everything is rising.
Heisenberg said:
MM Doze never worked? It works exactly as they intended it to; when the phone is not moving.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello
I think we need an sub forum for such kind of discussion e.g Google discussion or Android discussion.
Sent from my Moto G 2014 using XDA-Developers mobile app
neeraj.lambaa said:
Hello
I think we need an sub forum for such kind of discussion e.g Google discussion or Android discussion.
Sent from my Moto G 2014 using XDA-Developers mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is already a general Android discussion section.
This thread reminds me of a galaxy Black Hole!
Google's not perfect but they allow indie developers freedom. Steve Jobs wanted the ipad to be an extension of the user but then he had specific ideas for how that user should behave. Apple says we know whats best for you, while Google says "go ahead and get that tatoo. We might think its a poor decision but its your body!"
Ill stop rambling here. I like freedom and SOMETIMES that means things wont always go smooth.
Back to the topic--never had issues with doze either.
digitalbot said:
What do you think? Since MM Doze never really officially worked, Nougat's "enhanced" Doze barely works.
I'm wondering what happend to Google? They release half working internal official releases. Has the Developers been there too long? Too tired to care make something great? Or is Google just hiring Developers that want to get their foot in the door with no experience?
Just something to think about as I'm seeing a fall in android which is very disappointing, I mean after 5 previews and an offical release you really cannot fix the Android System bug thats using same % as screen? Pretty embarrassing on Google if you ask me.
Been android quite awhile it was doing great but they just cant get it together anymore?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
google sucks they treat their user base as a bunch of alpha testers
they never fix anything , they are a bunch of cheap money grubbers who will not spend money to hire people from the first world none of their developers can even be toilet trained how do you expect them to be able to be trained to develop software?
of course the low level 3rd world developers are not even nearly as bad at the higher ups who are supposed to be managing and designing
nothing they do makes any sense they are all a bunch of severely autistic retarded sperglords with zero real world social skills or experience
besides them leaving critical things broken for months to years like FRP and google maps navigation
they just are very poor at design in general and lack any common sense
everything they do is @SS backwards AF
most basic common sense features are not even included , whenever they do do something right they decide to make change for the sake of change and break it again
gdroid666 said:
google sucks they treat their user base as a bunch of alpha testers
they never fix anything , they are a bunch of cheap money grubbers who will not spend money to hire people from the first world none of their developers can even be toilet trained how do you expect them to be able to be trained to develop software?
of course the low level 3rd world developers are not even nearly as bad at the higher ups who are supposed to be managing and designing
nothing they do makes any sense they are all a bunch of severely autistic retarded sperglords with zero real world social skills or experience
besides them leaving critical things broken for months to years like FRP and google maps navigation
they just are very poor at design in general and lack any common sense
everything they do is @SS backwards AF
most basic common sense features are not even included , whenever they do do something right they decide to make change for the sake of change and break it again
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Question: What are you doing with an Android phone? Looks like the "almighty" iPhone will fill your needs just dandy.
akarol said:
Question: What are you doing with an Android phone? Looks like the "almighty" iPhone will fill your needs just dandy.
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Click to collapse
so just because i am not a android fanboy i must be an IOS fanboy
uh no, i give criticism where it is due, and there is plenty due for both
IOS is more polished and they do not put out releases in an alpha state though
and both of these companies are getting suckier and suckier by the minute
removing features instead of adding more and screwing over consumers and their user bases
and the fan boys on both sides just beg for more abuse , oh yes remove my SD slot , my removable battery , my IR blaster, my headphone jack ,my front facing stereo speakers, a ton of useful software features,
just take my money you can do no wrong
i like IOS but i hate having to use itunes it really is the "software equivalent of cancer" tim cook spoke about
IOS sucks too, memory is full, ok i'll just delete some videos and free up space . NOPE, backup and restore with itunes , it will work if you are lucky
android is awful too
broken security a 2yo could get past ,not fixed in almost a year now
broken google maps navigation not fixed in years
backwards user account system with more broken security
lacking even the most basic common sense convince features
many default settings set to where they will cause annoyance and problems for users
i can honestly say i hate them both ,and there is really no excuse for either one of them both of these comapnies have more money than god yet continue to produce garbage and be cheap F***s when it comes to R&D
they both love to employ bottom of the barrel 3rd world labor to pinch every penny but google is worse in that respect
choosing between IOS and android is like being asked to chose between cancer and aids
gdroid666 said:
choosing between IOS and android is like being asked to chose between cancer and aids
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like your spirit!
gdroid666 said:
so just because i am not a android fanboy i must be an IOS fanboy
uh not i give criticism where it is due, and there is plenty due for both
IOS is more polished and they do not put out releases in an alpha state though
and both of these companies are getting suckier and suckier by the minute
removing features instead of adding more and screwing over consumers and their user bases
and the fan boys on both sides just beg for more abuse , oh yes remove my SD slot , my removable battery , my IR blaster, my headphone jack ,my front facing stereo speakers, a ton of useful software features,
just take my money you can do no wrong
i like IOS but i hate having to use itunes it really ins the "software equivalent of cancer" tim cook spoke about
IOS sucks too, memory is full, ok i'll just delete some videos and free up space . NOPE, backup and restore with itunes , it will work if you are lucky
android is awful too
broken security a 2yo could get past ,not fixed in almost a year now
broken google maps navigation not fixed in years
backwards user account system with more broken security
lacking even the most basic common sense convince features
many default settings set to where they will cause annoyance and problems for users
i can honestly say i hate them both ,and there is really no excuse for either one of them both of these comapnies have more money than god yet continue to produce garbage and be cheap Fuks when it comes to R&D
they both love to employ bottom of the barrel 3rd world labor to pinch every penny but google is worse in that respect
choosing between IOS and android is like being asked to chose between cancer and aids
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please edit your post and remove the comment about Cancer and Aids. That line was completely uncalled for and extremely inappropriate. Also please edit out the cuss words you have in your post that you masked from the editor. It's against XDA policy as we have kids that come on here. If you want to cuss, please use the * symbol on your keyboard.
While I understand your strong feelings towards Google, may I ask why such strong feelings? Were you passed up on being hired by them? It's just that it's not every day you get to see someone post such strong words against a company that they merely purchased or didn't purchase products from. Seems like there's some personal stuff going on there.
gdroid666 said:
so just because i am not a android fanboy i must be an IOS fanboy
uh not i give criticism where it is due, and there is plenty due for both
IOS is more polished and they do not put out releases in an alpha state though
and both of these companies are getting suckier and suckier by the minute
removing features instead of adding more and screwing over consumers and their user bases
and the fan boys on both sides just beg for more abuse , oh yes remove my SD slot , my removable battery , my IR blaster, my headphone jack ,my front facing stereo speakers, a ton of useful software features,
just take my money you can do no wrong
i like IOS but i hate having to use itunes it really ins the "software equivalent of cancer" tim cook spoke about
IOS sucks too, memory is full, ok i'll just delete some videos and free up space . NOPE, backup and restore with itunes , it will work if you are lucky
android is awful too
broken security a 2yo could get past ,not fixed in almost a year now
broken google maps navigation not fixed in years
backwards user account system with more broken security
lacking even the most basic common sense convince features
many default settings set to where they will cause annoyance and problems for users
i can honestly say i hate them both ,and there is really no excuse for either one of them both of these comapnies have more money than god yet continue to produce garbage and be cheap Fuks when it comes to R&D
they both love to employ bottom of the barrel 3rd world labor to pinch every penny but google is worse in that respect
choosing between IOS and android is like being asked to chose between cancer and aids
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well off you go to Windows Phone (or Tizen eventualy) as you seem to hate the rest ha ha
gdroid666 said:
so just because i am not a android fanboy i must be an IOS fanboy
uh not i give criticism where it is due, and there is plenty due for both
IOS is more polished and they do not put out releases in an alpha state though
and both of these companies are getting suckier and suckier by the minute
removing features instead of adding more and screwing over consumers and their user bases
and the fan boys on both sides just beg for more abuse , oh yes remove my SD slot , my removable battery , my IR blaster, my headphone jack ,my front facing stereo speakers, a ton of useful software features,
just take my money you can do no wrong
i like IOS but i hate having to use itunes it really ins the "software equivalent of cancer" tim cook spoke about
IOS sucks too, memory is full, ok i'll just delete some videos and free up space . NOPE, backup and restore with itunes , it will work if you are lucky
android is awful too
broken security a 2yo could get past ,not fixed in almost a year now
broken google maps navigation not fixed in years
backwards user account system with more broken security
lacking even the most basic common sense convince features
many default settings set to where they will cause annoyance and problems for users
i can honestly say i hate them both ,and there is really no excuse for either one of them both of these comapnies have more money than god yet continue to produce garbage and be cheap Fuks when it comes to R&D
they both love to employ bottom of the barrel 3rd world labor to pinch every penny but google is worse in that respect
choosing between IOS and android is like being asked to chose between cancer and aids
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You seem to have a good understanding of how these things should work.
So when can we expect to see gdroid666 OS on our smartphones?
gee2012 said:
Well off you go to Windows Phone (or Tizen eventualy) as you seem to hate the rest ha ha
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes that is a funny joke ,not as big of a joke as windows phones though
gdroid666 said:
yes that is a funny joke ,not as big of a joke as windows phones though
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don`t worry, you`re still the biggest joke in this thread
gee2012 said:
Don`t worry, you`re still the biggest joke in this thread
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed.
gdroid666 said:
google sucks they treat their user base as a bunch of alpha testers
they never fix anything , they are a bunch of cheap money grubbers who will not spend money to hire people from the first world none of their developers can even be toilet trained how do you expect them to be able to be trained to develop software?
of course the low level 3rd world developers are not even nearly as bad at the higher ups who are supposed to be managing and designing
nothing they do makes any sense they are all a bunch of severely autistic retarded sperglords with zero real world social skills or experience
besides them leaving critical things broken for months to years like FRP and google maps navigation
they just are very poor at design in general and lack any common sense
everything they do is @SS backwards AF
most basic common sense features are not even included , whenever they do do something right they decide to make change for the sake of change and break it again
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nothing like completely biased, unsubstantiated, blanket claims. You can easily like or dislike anything about Google or Android, but to just say they know nothing about design demonstrates your absolute ignorance on digital design or how it is accomplished.
stm8 said:
You seem to have a good understanding of how these things should work.
So when can we expect to see gdroid666 OS on our smartphones?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
probably never
people who can code have no common sense and people with common sense can't code
or it is just bad upper level management
i can give specific examples of glaringly obvious bad design mistakes ,but of course they will never be fixed
googles multi user account system implemented in lolipop is just awful
here is why
there is no way to hand off ownership account status to another user ,you have to wipe and factory restore the device, i found this out when setting up a tablet for a parent with my account and having to start over
but why? this makes no sense what so ever , all they had to do is just make an option to transfer ownership account status to another user account on the device, log in under primary owner account go to settings, select pass ownership status to another user select user, there done would that have been so hard?
also multi user relies on lock screen passwords instead of just prompting for the google user account password to switch between users on the device, forcing everyone using the device to use a lock screen password and to enter it every time the device goes to sleep, this is very annoying especially when using a tablet which the multi user account was ostensibly designed to be used for since typically you do not share a phone, it just makes no sense at all
also smart lock trusted devices is another mess
i figured i would just use my mi band to unlock the tablet then,but even when you set up a trusted device to use smartlock it just disables itself after "inactivity" so after few hour you have to reset it again ,no option to keep it the way you set it, turned on
it's just common sense things like this that get really annoying
also no inversion of volume rocker buttons when in landscape mode
little common sense things like this
a company with unlimited funds and unlimited resourced should not be making ridiculously obvious design mistakes like these
nor should they be leaving such major things broken for years like google maps navigation and FRP security
---------- Post added at 07:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:03 PM ----------
ultyrunner said:
Nothing like completely biased, unsubstantiated, blanket claims. You can easily like or dislike anything about Google or Android, but to just say they know nothing about design demonstrates your absolute ignorance on digital design or how it is accomplished.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
how am i biased when i just said IOS is just as bad, i said the whole industry is headed in a bad direction
samsung, HTC, apple, all of them are making bad decisions
Doze is outstanding in Nougat. I got 5+ hours of SoT over a 38 hour period so yes, obviously, Nougat is total crap and Doze doesn't do anything...
^^^sarcasm^^^
...I do find it amazing that I can get endurance like that with no, as in zero, attempt to optimize battery drain (WiFi on, GPS on high, adaptive display on, BT on, bone stock, no root, etc.) while others are reporting problems. Regardless, all I can go by is that my 6P is not only just the best phone I ever had (last one was Note 5 that go worse with MM), it got even better with Nougat!
---------- Post added at 02:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:12 PM ----------
gdroid666 said:
probably never
people who can code have no common sense and people with common sense can't code
or it is just bad upper level management
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow. Generalize much?