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Hi folks,
I've spent a few days looking over the forum and have to say. good work
There don’t seem to be many issues, everyone seems to be getting on in the spirit of XDA.
I'm a firm fan of ‘if it isn’t broken, don’t fix it’ so I'm not going to be flying in making huge changes or swapping things around. this is your forum I'm just here to help keep things nice. if anyone has any ideas of how to improve things in this area - (not XDA as a whole) please drop me a PM, and we’ll put it to a vote. if it’s a good idea I'll change it if i can or I'll push for the changes with the senior team.
While this may be a legacy forum it’s clear there is still interest and a lot of life in this device still keep up the work and we’ll keep the phone alive I want to start on the right foot so a FEW IMPORTANT REMINDERS
please take the time to read - and for regular users - re-read the forum rules. it’s a good thing to remind yourselves of how we work http://forum.xda-developers.com/announcement.php?f=341
All the rules are important but to focus on a few.
we are here to help and learn. people do make mistakes. I don’t like users being flamed for asking a question. I'd rather we educated and pointed people in the right way to help them for the future. it’s OK to say use search - it’s not OK to abuse people
I also don’t like people putting a lot of work into something and getting flamed either - a lot of the work posted is a work in progress - people share this out of the goodness of their heart and also so they can get positive comments on how to improve. Again it’s not OK to abuse people cos they shared a work in progress.
sharing work - many developers are happy to share their work with others and in some cases one persons work is used as a base by others. - If you want to change someones work and then release it as your own - ASK FOR PERMISSION FIRST AND THEN LINK TO THE ORIGINAL DEV IN YOU RELEASE!!!
don’t post or link to warez - they will be removed.
Please report any issues or concerns to me as soon as you can using the report button or by PM- I'll deal with them.
Thanks
Chris
Hi folks,
I've spent a few days looking over the forum and have to say. good work
There don’t seem to be many issues, everyone seems to be getting on in the spirit of XDA.
I'm a firm fan of ‘if it isn’t broken, don’t fix it’ so I'm not going to be flying in making huge changes or swapping things around. this is your forum I'm just here to help keep things nice. if anyone has any ideas of how to improve things in this area - (not XDA as a whole) please drop me a PM, and we’ll put it to a vote. if it’s a good idea I'll change it if i can or I'll push for the changes with the senior team.
While this may be a legacy forum it’s clear there is still a lot of interest and a lot of life in this device still keep up the work and we’ll keep the phone alive I want to start on the right foot so a FEW IMPORTANT REMINDERS
please take the time to read - and for regular users - re-read the forum rules. it’s a good thing to remind yourselves of how we work http://forum.xda-developers.com/announcement.php?f=341
All the rules are important but to focus on a few.
we are here to help and learn. people do make mistakes. I don’t like users being flamed for asking a question. I'd rather we educated and pointed people in the right way to help them for the future. it’s OK to say use search - it’s not OK to abuse people
I also don’t like people putting a lot of work into something and getting flamed either - a lot of the work posted is a work in progress - people share this out of the goodness of their heart and also so they can get positive comments on how to improve. Again it’s not OK to abuse people cos they shared a work in progress.
sharing work - many developers are happy to share their work with others and in some cases one persons work is used as a base by others. - If you want to change someones work and then release it as your own - ASK FOR PERMISSION FIRST AND THEN LINK TO THE ORIGINAL DEV IN YOU RELEASE!!!
don’t post or link to warez - they will be removed.
Please report any issues or concerns to me as soon as you can using the report button or by PM- I'll deal with them.
Thanks
Chris
Our Shooter development forum has been a roller coaster ride over the past several weeks. Everything from developers taking their talents elsewhere to the unthinkable (HBoot downgrade) happening. As a fairly new, by XDA standards, member of these amazing forums, I want to know some people's honest opinions on what it will (or might) take to get our development forum back to what it's capable of being. In an ideal situation, we'd be able to have any lost developers come back and be able to share their contributions to our phones without any drama or repercussions for doing so. I mean no harm and I don't want bad feelings or bad memories being brought up, I just want what's best for XDA, XDA's members, and the developers that choose XDA to share their talents. I miss when XDA was fun and I want that back. I know there are many other members and developers out there that want the same.
Also, Moderators, please feel free to lock or delete this thread if it becomes a flame war or we start getting people trolling for no reason and adding nothing to this post. Also, please don't start throwing accusations around and all that. I want this to be a collaborative thought session from anybody who is willing to offer any constructive and positive feedback or ideas.
“To err is human; to forgive, divine” -- Alexander Pope.
mike.r.olson said:
Our Shooter development forum has been a roller coaster ride over the past several weeks. Everything from developers taking their talents elsewhere to the unthinkable (HBoot downgrade) happening. As a fairly new, by XDA standards, member of these amazing forums, I want to know some people's honest opinions on what it will (or might) take to get our development forum back to what it's capable of being. In an ideal situation, we'd be able to have any lost developers come back and be able to share their contributions to our phones without any drama or repercussions for doing so. I mean no harm and I don't want bad feelings or bad memories being brought up, I just want what's best for XDA, XDA's members, and the developers that choose XDA to share their talents. I miss when XDA was fun and I want that back. I know there are many other members and developers out there that want the same.
Also, Moderators, please feel free to lock or delete this thread if it becomes a flame war or we start getting people trolling for no reason and adding nothing to this post. Also, please don't start throwing accusations around and all that. I want this to be a collaborative thought session from anybody who is willing to offer any constructive and positive feedback or ideas.
“To err is human; to forgive, divine” -- Alexander Pope.
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I think all it would take is for people to stop being whinning, ungrateful douche bags. That is all. Devs are getting run off by people who whine and bi**h about every little thing. Everyone needs to realize that these devs are doing this for free and not asking for anything in return. Once everyone can do that and be grateful, I think a lot will change but it will not change everything. Some devs are gone and not coming back. At least gone to the 3D forums.
That's just my feeling on the subject.
Sent from my Anthrax infected 3D!
If I've helped you in any way... hit the "Thanks" button.
Also, here's what I use for reference when I want to know how well a thread can be run. Check out the MIUI thread (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1271824). Team D3rp has done a fantastic job of making that thread a pleasure to read with even a few laughs here and there. Yeah it gets off topic every once in a while, but that's what FRIENDS do. They cut up and have a good time all while maintaining the same objective.
XDA isn't amazing, it's just the most popular. There are many issues here dealing with maturity, drama, and so on. The developers aren't some gods that should be worshipped and defended no matter what. The problem we have here is that too many people try to speak on behalf of devs, causing a lot of unnecessary drama.
In a perfect world, devs would post their work, and people would use it, figure out what could make it better, and continue from there. But here, if someone says something even a little derogatory towards a developer, they get teamed up on and attacked for it. Even though this is a free thing, and these people aren't paid to do this, they release their work to the public and as such they deserve criticism where needed. I've seen a lot of devs accept such criticism and work with it, but still people feel the need to defend them to the end. Devs aren't perfect, they aren't flawless people. Quite a few of them are attention seekers. People need to stop taking battles into their own hands. They need to realize that it just doesn't help.
There's too much of a focus on being the first to get something done, as well.
I agree that the developers should be subject to and even welcome constructive criticism, as long as it isn't a "THIS ROM SUCKS!!!eleven" kind of useless post. How else would one make their ROM/kernel/mod/theme better without worthwhile feedback? Maybe put a 10/15 word minimum on replies in the development and themes/apps sections?
One of things that drives me nuts is that people don't read the OP, won't even ATTEMPT to search for a solution to a problem, then they ***** & moan in threads like they are entitled to a answer in 2min from posting.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
SketchyStunts said:
One of things that drives me nuts is that people don't read the OP, won't even ATTEMPT to search for a solution to a problem, then they ***** & moan in threads like they are entitled to a answer in 2min from posting.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
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Maybe a larger, more dominant "Search This Post" button?
Perhaps a more larger, dominant brain in their heads?
Odoslané z môjho HTC EVO 3D X515m cez Tapatalk
mike.r.olson said:
I agree that the developers should be subject to and even welcome constructive criticism, as long as it isn't a "THIS ROM SUCKS!!!eleven" kind of useless post. How else would one make their ROM/kernel/mod/theme better without worthwhile feedback? Maybe put a 10/15 word minimum on replies in the development and themes/apps sections?
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some thoughts (basicly what it would take for me to post my work back on XDA again)
specific to the end-users and developers on xda:
..i have no problem is people tell me my work sucks.. but tell me WHY
---seriously, look at my work in the past, a user reported an issue, i busted my ass to fix it the same day the issue was reported, sometimes causing 2-3 releases in the same day
..instead of posting issues in XDA or any other forum, i ask you use my issue tracking site, so i have all the problems in one place, and everyone can see the status and updates of reported issues, including the person who reported it. (i honestly do not read every single post on my threads, i dont have the time... so if you have an issue, and you dont post it on my issue tracking site, dont expect to have it fixed..)
..i do have a problem when people make things personal or accuse anyone of any wrong doing without proof. even if they had proof, it should be done in PM and and not in public forum, or brought to the attention of a Sr. Mod if the PMs are not responed to.
..people should show common courtasy and respect when a developer (or anyone) gives them something for free. if you dont like it, move on....dont troll the developers thread.
..if you do not own the device covered by my thread, dont post in my thread, dont report my thread, dont down-rate my thread. If you do own the device, but dont use my software, the only thing you should be posting in my thread is questions about said software.
..understand ALL developers here are doing you a favor by giving you something for free...they sometimes spend days/weeks on something and just GIVE IT TO YOU
..<MOST> people will treat YOU like you treat THEM, if your an ass, expect to be treated like an ass.
..i dont expect to be treated any different than a non-developer, but i ask for basic respect...is this asking too much?
i know im not the only person on XDA that feels this way, but I am prolly the only one who will speak my mind.
+1 Chad.
That's for giving a developers point of view on the subject.
Also, I agree that developers should not be treated like Gods. They should be given respect for what they do though.
Sent from my Anthrax infected 3D!
If I've helped you in any way... hit the "Thanks" button.
That's the problem of using a forum to organize all of this stuff.
chad.goodman said:
some thoughts (basicly what it would take for me to post my work back on XDA again)
specific to the end-users and developers on xda:
..i have no problem is people tell me my work sucks.. but tell me WHY
---seriously, look at my work in the past, a user reported an issue, i busted my ass to fix it the same day the issue was reported, sometimes causing 2-3 releases in the same day
..instead of posting issues in XDA or any other forum, i ask you use my issue tracking site, so i have all the problems in one place, and everyone can see the status and updates of reported issues, including the person who reported it. (i honestly do not read every single post on my threads, i dont have the time... so if you have an issue, and you dont post it on my issue tracking site, dont expect to have it fixed..)
..i do have a problem when people make things personal or accuse anyone of any wrong doing without proof. even if they had proof, it should be done in PM and and not in public forum, or brought to the attention of a Sr. Mod if the PMs are not responed to.
..people should show common courtasy and respect when a developer (or anyone) gives them something for free. if you dont like it, move on....dont troll the developers thread.
..if you do not own the device covered by my thread, dont post in my thread, dont report my thread, dont down-rate my thread. If you do own the device, but dont use my software, the only thing you should be posting in my thread is questions about said software.
..understand ALL developers here are doing you a favor by giving you something for free...they sometimes spend days/weeks on something and just GIVE IT TO YOU
..<MOST> people will treat YOU like you treat THEM, if your an ass, expect to be treated like an ass.
..i dont expect to be treated any different than a non-developer, but i ask for basic respect...is this asking too much?
i know im not the only person on XDA that feels this way, but I am prolly the only one who will speak my mind.
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And hopefully we can get most of this accomplished. As I say in my other forums and it works.
If you see trolls report them, don't feed them. If you ignore them and report them we can get rid of them. If you fight with them we have to sort out who the trolls actually are.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
The problem XDA wide is how aggressive everyone has become. It's not just developers, but users too. I read probably 100 threads every day looking for news stories and here's how it always goes:
1. Developer releases something
1a. Someone starts a thread in, say, General and says something.
2. Trolls
3. Everyone is angry
4. Developers leave.
The 5 things that would at least calm it down.
1. If there's a problem, report it to the mods. Too many regular users are trying to be ma and pa XDA and that causes a lot of problems. You think something is a kang or someone isn't following the rules: report to the mods and present proof. They'll look into it and make a decision. Live with that decision. (affects: users and developers)
2. If you don't like something, stay away from it. So many people post in dev threads for stuff they don't use just to cause problems. If you don't use it or don't like it, then get away from it. (affects: users and developers)
3. Stop demanding things from people. They aren't your slaves, you don't pay them and they don't owe you anything. In the old days, developers worked at their own pace and released things and users were just happy to have em. Now, users seem to have this "I'm entitled" attitude and it's wrong. You don't pay for XDA, ads do (exceptions being XDA Premium App owners and donators...but you guys do it because you love XDA, not because you expect something out of it). You don't pay for development...no one pays for development. It's a hobby to these people and they do it out of the kindness of their hearts. Be happy with what you have, be excited for what you're getting and quit running around like you're all that.
4. I'd say something similar about the developers, but Sora is ma and pa XDA today and took care of that for me.
5. This site is based around development and collaboration, not "you owe me a rom" or "where's our ICS" or "wah wah wah". Collaborating, developing and respecting one another, then things will be much better.
lastly, to those with sanity left...lead by example. This goes to devs and users alike. If you see someone trolling, don't respond to them. If you see someone acting a fool, don't respond to them. If you ignore bullies (even e-bullies), they eventually go away. Gotta stop letting them get under everyone's skin because then it shows that they can get under your skin and they'll keep getting under your skin. Who wants that?!
Good to see Chad still here. Stick around Chad! We got pstevep assigned to the 3D forums now, things are gonna get better!
just started reading in here for not so long, but noticed, that so many users think, the devs HAVE to publish their work, that they HAVE to include everything into a rom.
especially the thing with the camera and stuff on the evo 3d. like the devs have to get it work.
stop whining and shouting. if it's too slow for you guys, start doing it on your own.
in my opinion, if you, users always complaining about stuff, dont stop it, the devs will leave and won't publish any roms. so who's going to miss something? right, just you. the devs have their own roms. maybe they'll they in touch with other devs just talking about their work etc. but if they stop releasing their stuff, nobody will have custom roms any more, except you start programming your own...
so stop it, be happy with the stuff the devs provide and just report bugs, if there are any. or just say something, that may be a good feature of a rom
Besides Joel leaving I think things have been a lot better recently! If I do say so myself.
Joel is a great dev and those who care will follow him. I think people just got frustrated by all his projects but I myself enjoyed following the bleeding edge of his ports. But to each his own.
I believe at some point he will be back until then everybody should just try hard to be nice to eachother so the great devs will have a nice place to come back to.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
This is awesome. Let's keep it going. I love when we can have troll/flame free discussions.
The thing that I don't get is the ones that go out of their way to post crap on people's threads that is useless just to be a smartass, troll or flame. If you don't like the topic, think it's stupid other whatever just move on and don't bother intruding on the persons post and degrading him. I mean what is the point in doing it really? It accomplishes nothing at all and results in another thread closing and why waste the time typing the nonsense in the first place
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2 Beta-2
The first thing i ever noticed about XDA, coming from Villainrom was that the users on XDA had a lot less time for you, I adapted quickly and have had run ins before.
Some people just get shot down in flames for asking a question, whether they're noobs or whether they're just stuck asking a question in a section and getting no responses, it can be hard for someone to get an answer, typically when they're new.
If you want a perfect forum, then create rules, if people don't adhere to those forum rules, then they leave, it's as simple as that.
As for the developers, well this place wouldn't be what it is today without developers, but they do it because they want to, they want to work at making something better and then share it with people, if people have have a question then they should be able to ask away.
Some of the OPS don't have a lot of info in them either, if someone asks about something which is quite clearly in the OP then they should get face palmed i get that, but not if they don't understand something and didn't want to spend an hour trudging through 300 pages to find an answer, then someone sarcastically turns around to them and says "Use the search button DOH" or USE SEARCH ----> or something which you'd expect from a spoilt kid.
Plus the search function isn't the best on XDA, sometimes it just doesn't work.
Myself, i think the one thing which has scared all the dev's off is the 3d, no one has been able to crack that yet (on the newer roms), if it were a single camera and it wasn't 3d, i think it would be more popular than the sensation.
mike.r.olson said:
Our Shooter development forum has been a roller coaster ride over the past several weeks. Everything from developers taking their talents elsewhere to the unthinkable (HBoot downgrade) happening. As a fairly new, by XDA standards, member of these amazing forums, I want to know some people's honest opinions on what it will (or might) take to get our development forum back to what it's capable of being. In an ideal situation, we'd be able to have any lost developers come back and be able to share their contributions to our phones without any drama or repercussions for doing so. I mean no harm and I don't want bad feelings or bad memories being brought up, I just want what's best for XDA, XDA's members, and the developers that choose XDA to share their talents. I miss when XDA was fun and I want that back. I know there are many other members and developers out there that want the same. ...
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The short answer, IMHO, is to have more people on here learning how to develop and contribute than just using and requesting features. The respect and entitlement issues a lot of people attribute to XDA are also far from being unique to this site, they're issues with the Android community as a whole.
There are far too many people who would rather just throw money out there to anyone who can make their phone do cool ****, and, while there is absolutely nothing wrong with donating to someone for their time, when you start putting it out there too much you get people whose only concern is hustling others out of money and the whole open source model collapses.
edit: As others have also mentioned, if you see something disprespectful, innappropriate or you don't think it belongs in your thread, etc., please hit the little triangle on the top right of the post and report it. On a site with this much traffic it's impossible to see everything that goes on and you all would be shocked if you knew about some of the stuff that gets by without anyone reporting it. It also makes it much easier for us to deal with and recognize those who have a habit of causing trouble.
Let me start off by saying donations are definitely a good thing. However, the nature of donations going on on XDA has got me thinking about a few things:
Do you think too many people want and/or expect donations for little things or things that don't really bring much to the table? Disregard the part at the bottom of their post that makes a lot of people seem righteous "Donations are not required, but are appreciated" something along those lines. Lines like that are what probably make people go "aww" or "wow, this person is really cool" But is it a subliminal tug at your heart strings on purpose? I have always been the kind of person that requires no donations because I don't consider myself bringing nothing really new to the table. More along the lines of bringing alternatives to things that are already on the table.
Most of us would do the things we're doing regardless, so why would you want money for it? I know a ton of people are going to rely on the "I never asked for money" stance, but the fact is, you kinda DO ask for money when donation links are plastered all over your topic.
Take for example someone who truly wanted to dive in and understand how modding Android files worked, how to make a ROM, how to theme a ROM. That person would do those things and probably push out something to the public even IF donations weren't accepted on XDA. In other words, true passion would yield community projects anyway, so why pretend like the donations are to "continue this project" when everyone knows you would continue it anyway? It's not like the people are doing these ROM projects just to get money, or are they? Now, I have seen more and more people wanting donations for slightly modifying things that aren't even open source software, like modifying proprietary HTC/Samsung/Motorola/etc files. Is this fair? Where does the line get drawn between giving donations for someone who truly is developing, and someone who is simply modifying?
I feel that teams like CyanogenMod, TeamWin, people who bring things to our phones that aren't otherwise available such as Beats, xLoud engine, etc. are the ones that truly deserve our money because they are the ones who raise the bar, bring exceptional software, software modifications, and new things to the table. So why then, does someone who downloaded a kitchen made by dsixda, smali/baksmali made by jesusfreke, various tools made by other people, and take information freely available on the internet written by other people expect, want, or even secretly want donations?
Chad Goodman is a perfect example of someone who truly does warrant having donations sent his way, but instead is satisfied with a mere thanks and appreciation from the community for his kernel development.
What are your thoughts on donating to people for something like a ROM that was for the most part completed by HTC? I wouldn't be surprised if sooner or later people started expecting donations for giving out information on upcoming phones. There are a ton of true developers that aren't "in your face" and are more behind the scenes that never really get recognized for their brilliance that should deserve our donations, thanks, and appreciation, but in the mix of so many 'developers' they seem to go forgotten.
I learn things for my own satisfaction and to make my phone better, and if I feel like anything I have done to my device can benefit the community that a lot of it I learned from, then I will most certainly share it without any financial compensation direct or indirect. I for one will never accept donations from the community I share things with that I would do for myself anyway, unless I feel that I truly am helping to raise the bar nor will I make it feel like their donation is what drives my continued support on a project, because let's face it- if a donation is what drives you to learn more and share with the public, you probably don't deserve the donation to begin with.
I'd just like to say that I think you're a class act, Freeza. I don't have a 3D and I'm not really sure how I came across this post, but I used your ROM exclusively on the TP2 from PPCGEEKs..Thank you for your contributions and never looking for anything more than a "thanks".
Not agree.
If you don't want - do not donate. If yes - go.
Nobody is not responsible for your unstable mental state, no one is forcing you to do donations.
I making the donations, made it for Kobra-rom and made it for MikRunny rom. Nobody is talking to me to do that, but i think the guys made work, great work, that making me to love my Android-phone. I think, that without custom roms Android is dead, and without the donates development is dead.
Even little development is development.
There is only my opinion.
You're a good guy freeza
Swyped from mah 3vo!
Kemanorell said:
Not agree.
If you don't want - do not donate. If yes - go.
Nobody is not responsible for your unstable mental state, no one is forcing you to do donations.
I making the donations, made it for Kobra-rom and made it for MikRunny rom. Nobody is talking to me to do that, but i think the guys made work, great work, that making me to love my Android-phone. I think, that without custom roms Android is dead, and without the donates development is dead.
Even little development is development.
There is only my opinion.
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Definitely not unstable in any way. This topic is only meant to spark discussion, not take away from developers. I really am looking for a reason that so many people put donation links up all over the place if they do it for the love of learning; with the exception of developers.
Kemanorell said:
Even little development is development.
There is only my opinion.
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Like what is little dev to you, is it modding because that is not. Alpha rev unrevoke teamwin creators of tools is dev without them guys you could not even modify so........ unless you are a dev you don't need those tools so...... What is little
Sent from my powered Shooter E3D with Infection of AnthraX Jamz by wolf.
funny you posted this here, as I just a few sec ago had to comment on this subject in the HTC Desire S forum when responding to a reported thread on this subject...
Here is what I said: (note the main topic was about having donation links in peoples signatures and if non RD's warranted having it. btw)
My personal opinion on the subject though.....
It is more than okay for people to have donation links in their sig's that are not dev's. You dont have to be a Dev to warrant a donation. Many of the themer's and other people that contribute to the community are NOT developers but they provide value to the overall community and if someone wants to donate to them so be it...They might not get much use out of the button, but it is their right to have one if they want...
Now asking or demanding for donations up front will not be tolerated here in any way. There can be a fine line on this with RD's and others using the donation system for their beta's and such before a wide release but thats NOT what I'm talking about here at all. I'm talking about the flat out demanding of a donation before providing a service or doing anything else...If you see that then report the post and I or someone else will handle it.
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Now I also agree the ones that do it out of pure love, I appreciate more as they are the true driving force here, imho. Now you have to agree that these people are taking time out of their personal lives to do work for the community and should be allowed to be compensated when/if users decide to do so. The $$/donation should never be the driving force or reason behind what goes on here. imho
Hence Rule 8 of XDA, "...donations up front are not allowed, this forum is about sharing, not about getting paid to do something, that's what your job is for."
Now as for those people putting links everywhere to donate and such to them....they typically just get put on the ignore list by me. I don't believe your donation link should be the biggest thing in your signature though if there...just poor taste imho and shows you are concerned more about the $ than the community here...
This is just like the professional athlete....some play just for themselves and some for the overall team reward in the end...Those that play just for themselves and the paycheck might be outstanding athletes and likely help a team win a bunch of games, but also might cause other frictions that the athlete playing for the team doesn't cause...both are professional athletes in the end so they are both talented but both have their pluses and minuses...imho
freeza said:
Definitely not unstable in any way. This topic is only meant to spark discussion, not take away from developers. I really am looking for a reason that so many people put donation links up all over the place if they do it for the love of learning; with the exception of developers.
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It is because we are at FORUM, some public-place, some impersonation of the network freedom, if you want...so anybody doing what he's want, because the site is allow that.
---------- Post added at 07:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:56 PM ----------
.Elite_The_King. said:
Like what is little dev to you, is it modding because that is not. Alpha rev unrevoke teamwin creators of tools is dev without them guys you could not even modify so........ unless you are a dev you don't need those tools so...... What is little
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See, my opinion is simple: any time-donation (to make some theme, other little thing) coast some money. So it is some type of freedom - if you want - make some donation, if not - so not.
And if you don't trust any "little dev", so don't expect to see some really amazing things. Any stick always have two ends.
Ah, yea, i forgot to say, Freeza, i like your work (wallpapers). Thank you.
Freeza, i have to say that you worded that up perfectly but I do feel as though some of the contributions "you" have made here does warrant donations. Your firmware zips (copy/paste or not) alone have saved many here from bricks and a lot of hassle.
Haven said that, I do agree with what you're saying here, anyone with common knowledge can copy and paste code. I myself have built my own personal roms to my personal liking by asking questions, researching, and copy and paste....that certainly doesn't classify me as a dev, nor would that warrant a donation to me if I posted them (even though some have turned out pretty good if i do say so myself lol).
I have donated to 4 devs here, but like you said, it was to those who have brought something totally new to the table and were worthy. The worst are the ones who actually start begging for money on their threads....I find that despicable. We've had those on the 3d thread before....one was banned (for something else), but i digress. I'll just end by saying, you my friend, are worthy of donations.
sgt. slaughter said:
funny you posted this here, as I just a few sec ago had to comment on this subject in the HTC Desire S forum when responding to a reported thread on this subject...
Here is what I said: (note the main topic was about having donation links in peoples signatures and if non RD's warranted having it. btw)
Now I also agree the ones that do it out of pure love, I appreciate more as they are the true driving force here, imho. Now you have to agree that these people are taking time out of their personal lives to do work for the community and should be allowed to be compensated when/if users decide to do so. The $$/donation should never be the driving force or reason behind what goes on here. imho
Hence Rule 8 of XDA, "...donations up front are not allowed, this forum is about sharing, not about getting paid to do something, that's what your job is for."
Now as for those people putting links everywhere to donate and such to them....they typically just get put on the ignore list by me. I don't believe your donation link should be the biggest thing in your signature though if there...just poor taste imho and shows you are concerned more about the $ than the community here...
This is just like the professional athlete....some play just for themselves and some for the overall team reward in the end...Those that play just for themselves and the paycheck might be outstanding athletes and likely help a team win a bunch of games, but also might cause other frictions that the athlete playing for the team doesn't cause...both are professional athletes in the end so they are both talented but both have their pluses and minuses...imho
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Good points... but do you really think some people who receive donations do it for the community or do they do it for themselves and simply share it with the community? Because if they're not taking requests and simply posting up something they've done, it was more than likely done for themselves before the notion of donations were even considered, then simply shared it with everyone else with the intent OR later intent on getting donations.
Having a donate button under your avatar is different and for the most part fine, because it isn't obtrusive, but when you plaster something at the bottom of your signature and/or posts telling people if you've helped them to 'please donate' or 'please consider donating' or any other phrase out there that is condescending to the bottom line of "GIVE ME MONEY", that's where I think it goes from being fine to just annoying.
Take for instance someone who made a ROM, then at the bottom of the ROM is like "so there you have it guys. OH and by the way if you find any of this helpful, donate to me!" or "please consider donating so that I may continue work on this project" and it's like.....really? That's borderline breaking the rules, at least in my eyes. I feel like the point of donating is for those who truly want to donate, and by doing so haven't read any annoying catch phrases that would make them feel obligated to donate--hence the donate button under your avatar. XDA should consider banning signature advertising of donating and strictly keep to the button. That and ban people from soliciting by using word trickery such as "If you feel i've helped you, donate to me" because a lot of time I DO feel as though someone has helped me, but if I don't donate, does it mean I don't feel that way?
freeza said:
Good points... but do you really think some people who receive donations do it for the community or do they do it for themselves and simply share it with the community? Because if they're not taking requests and simply posting up something they've done, it was more than likely done for themselves before the notion of donations were even considered, then simply shared it with everyone else with the intent OR later intent on getting donations.
Having a donate button under your avatar is different and for the most part fine, because it isn't obtrusive, but when you plaster something at the bottom of your signature and/or posts telling people if you've helped them to 'please donate' or 'please consider donating' or any other phrase out there that is condescending to the bottom line of "GIVE ME MONEY", that's where I think it goes from being fine to just annoying.
Take for instance someone who made a ROM, then at the bottom of the ROM is like "so there you have it guys. OH and by the way if you find any of this helpful, donate to me!" or "please consider donating so that I may continue work on this project" and it's like.....really? That's borderline breaking the rules, at least in my eyes. I feel like the point of donating is for those who truly want to donate, and by doing so haven't read any annoying catch phrases that would make them feel obligated to donate--hence the donate button under your avatar. XDA should consider banning signature advertising of donating and strictly keep to the button. That and ban people from soliciting by using word trickery such as "If you feel i've helped you, donate to me" because a lot of time I DO feel as though someone has helped me, but if I don't donate, does it mean I don't feel that way?
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yeah I agree. though I dont mind the donate button in signatures really long as its not some big huge button taking up half the sig...then its just poor taste imho...Also the whole "asking for donations" id put in the same category...You shouldn't have to ask for it nor remind people to donate to yourself...let others remind people to donate and spread the word that way....
freeza said:
Good points... but do you really think some people who receive donations do it for the community or do they do it for themselves and simply share it with the community? Because if they're not taking requests and simply posting up something they've done, it was more than likely done for themselves before the notion of donations were even considered, then simply shared it with everyone else with the intent OR later intent on getting donations.
Having a donate button under your avatar is different and for the most part fine, because it isn't obtrusive, but when you plaster something at the bottom of your signature and/or posts telling people if you've helped them to 'please donate' or 'please consider donating' or any other phrase out there that is condescending to the bottom line of "GIVE ME MONEY", that's where I think it goes from being fine to just annoying.
Take for instance someone who made a ROM, then at the bottom of the ROM is like "so there you have it guys. OH and by the way if you find any of this helpful, donate to me!" or "please consider donating so that I may continue work on this project" and it's like.....really? That's borderline breaking the rules, at least in my eyes. I feel like the point of donating is for those who truly want to donate, and by doing so haven't read any annoying catch phrases that would make them feel obligated to donate--hence the donate button under your avatar. XDA should consider banning signature advertising of donating and strictly keep to the button. That and ban people from soliciting by using word trickery such as "If you feel i've helped you, donate to me" because a lot of time I DO feel as though someone has helped me, but if I don't donate, does it mean I don't feel that way?
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I agree. I think that anything regarding donating shouldn't be allowed in someones signature or in their OP. I think the button is enough. I have donated and actually had to ask the dev what there paypal email was because I couldn't find any other way to send it to them. I also had another dev turn down a donation. I respect both of them a lot more for that.
While I don't consider my contribution as large as other peoples, I have a donate link. I realized that people actually appreciated the downgrade CD in my signature. That, more than anything, makes me happy. While I didn't develop the downgrade method (Unknownforce gets my full respect for this), I started putting in a (hopefully unobtrusive) link to my post on my policy on donations. I later changed that, and now I have the sidebar link.
Personally, my rationale for having a donate button was so that maybe I could buy a second hand phone or two to start developing for (likely ones that don't have the largest development community). I want to put out things while learning more about Android.
Now, I haven't received anything yet, But I'm okay with that. I love that I have been able to help (even in the slightest). That's really rewarding to me.
~co~
certain things warrant donations like hosting i try to get my user to donate to the host cause that is the most expensive part of deving and i think asking for donations for a goal is reasonable such as faster hosting, putting an app on the market, buying a mhl cable for testing etcc.
Nice discussion. I'll have to read all the comments in a bit and see what everyone says, but to me I agree with your OP freeza. I believe devs should definitely recieve donations if the raise the bar and bring something new that users didn't have before, I also believe that if you are enjoying and aprecciate a developers constant work then you can donate. I don't like developers and modders who have half their signature be a donation sign or constantly ask for them. Donations shouldn't even be asked for on here. I believe that the donation button above your avatar is enough to let users know "if you want to donate then here you go".
I have the little donation button at the top and although haven't received a donation yet, I don't personally care. It's my passion to learn more about android that keeps me going and making themes. Not the money. I don't believe I have actually done anything worth receiving money for.
Sent from my EVO 3D using Tapatalk 2
I don't mind people asking for donations if they make customizations to ROMs and host them themselves. If it's basically reassembling others' works and throwing it up to a free host.. well, then you're just doing your hobby.
Off topic, but freeza, are you going to get an Evo LTE? You're a guy I want to see in those forums.
Sent from my Evo 3D using Tapatalk 2.0
yousefak said:
Off topic, but freeza, are you going to get an Evo LTE? You're a guy I want to see in those forums.
Sent from my Evo 3D using Tapatalk 2.0
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Of course I am! and thank you, I will definitely be a part of it.
I agree with u freeza, I think the Rd's/Dev Teams and/or users that actually create the tools and/or create their own code, ports, etc... should be the only ones that should be allowed to ask for donations (If they so choose to).
IMHO, they are the ones bringing the stuff to the table and provide us (The users) the tools to allow us to modify and cook our own custom roms, etc..
Now I'm not trying to disrespect anyone who creates roms. They certainly deserve all the thanks for all their hard time and effort spent on creating their roms.
There's really a fine line here, You have the users that create custom roms from the tools that dev's create and then you have the dev's that create those tools to begin with. Without the building blocks to create those roms, there wouldn't be anything for us to flash.
So i believe that donations should be more favored towards dev's and not users who create roms to their liking.
Like I said before, I'm not trying to disrespect anyone who creates roms, I flash roms daily and thank the people who make this phone worth keeping. This is just for discussion purposes only.
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA
neonfreak20 said:
I agree with u freeza, I think the Rd's/Dev Teams and/or users that actually create the tools and/or create their own code, ports, etc... should be the only ones that should be allowed to ask for donations (If they so choose to).
IMHO, they are the ones bringing the stuff to the table and provide us (The users) the tools to allow us to modify and cook our own custom roms, etc..
Now I'm not trying to disrespect anyone who creates roms. They certainly deserve all the thanks for all their hard time and effort spent on creating their roms.
There's really a fine line here, You have the users that create custom roms from the tools that dev's create and then you have the dev's that create those tools to begin with. Without the building blocks to create those roms, there wouldn't be anything for us to flash.
So i believe that donations should be more favored towards dev's and not users who create roms to their liking.
Like I said before, I'm not trying to disrespect anyone who creates roms, I flash roms daily and thank the people who make this phone worth keeping. This is just for discussion purposes only.
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA
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I understand where you are coming from and in a way I do agree, but with that said I have to add in that just because ROM developers are creating ROMS with other people's tools does not mean they aren't spending just as much time writing code as the people who made the necessary building blocks. For a large part of ROM development people can't just simply use another's tools. Especially for ports. It requires lots of testing and risk and hours of looking at notepad++ and eclipse (or other ide's) . So I do agree alot of people need to think about the outstanding tools developers have made, but people who make ROM's are just as easily developers as the ones who design the tools.
Sent from my EVO 3D using Tapatalk 2
I was interested in learning people's perspectives on donation etiquette and was able to find a thread in the Samsung Vibrant forum. Good stuff there on donation amounts.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1006726
Rather than resurrecting this thread, I thought I would pose the question here.
I have noticed that many people post the paypal confirmation number in the thread after making a donation. Do developers like this? Or is this just fishing for a 'thank you'. In some sense it cues others to make donations as well, which is good.
Thoughts?
stoicism said:
I was interested in learning people's perspectives on donation etiquette and was able to find a thread in the Samsung Vibrant forum. Good stuff there on donation amounts.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1006726
Rather than resurrecting this thread, I thought I would pose the question here.
I have noticed that many people post the paypal confirmation number in the thread after making a donation. Do developers like this? Or is this just fishing for a 'thank you'. In some sense it cues others to make donations as well, which is good.
Thoughts?
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I donated to a rom developer but didn't say anything in the rom thread. That just seems tacky to me. The next day the dev thanked me via email. Good enough for me. I took advantage of his efforts and hard work, loved his rom and made the donation.
I've always pm'd the person i donated to.