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I have been a member of XDA some time now. In the time that I have been a member I have used various forums from the Wizard thru the Raphael. I am seeing a transformation in the forum that I think we need to correct. When I first joined, the board was very different from the way it is today. The posts were more technical in nature, with people offering suggestions and posting not only the bugs they found with the ROM’s, but sometimes the fix as well. I feel that the Raphael forum has strayed far from that, to the point where people are just posting and waiting for the chefs to fix everything. I am not saying everyone does that, but it is the majority. There are two things I am concerned about. One, chefs are leaving from being burned out or simply not having the time to keep up with all the requests, Second, the quality of the ROMs. See, if we help the chefs by either resolving our own issues or helping them with bug resolution they will have more time for improvements and refinement. This will lead to the fastest most stable ROMs possible. I think the community needs to go back to the times when people were a little hesitant to just post anything, and actually do research and troubleshooting before bugging the chefs. Any and all comments would be appreciated, either agreeing or disagreeing with me.
-McMex
Amen to that! could not agree with you more....
the problem is that flashing ROMs are too easy now, the tools are too useful, and these VERY powerful tools are now in the hands of kids too immature to research for themselves
I agree with you McMexican. Just had an issue in the Blackstone forum over this exact issue you mention here.
P1Tater said:
Here's the issue with XDA lately and it's not just this thread that it's happening. The problem is that everyone reports a bug but noone tries to assist in fixing it. Everyone expects the cook to be all-knowing and be able to fix himself. However, these people have lives as well. They have families and jobs and don't have 24 hours in a day to just sit here on the thread and wait for people to report bugs so they have something to do. So, everyone complains, cries and whines about their issues and never once says what apps they have installed, uninstalled, what regs they have changed or files they have added or deleted and then wonder why the chef doesn't have the issue and why he can't fix it. Then when the chef gets upset. Then, when they do get upset then the "Thank You's" come. Did it ever occur to anyone to thank the chef when the rom worked? No, when it works you don't post and when it doesn't work you post complaints. I wonder why the chef's get upset . Just think about it.
What should happen is if it works, thank the chef or contribute. Damn, even a Thank You goes a long way. If you are having issues, maybe just maybe, report the issue, what you have tried, whatt apps you have installed and what you have uninstalled. Ususally when a chef cooks a rom, they don't install apps to the rom because everything they use is cooked in. Believe it or not, some apps will absolutely kill a rom.
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This is what I posted in that thread but it seems as though it is worth mentioning here as this discusses the exact same issue we seem to be having all over XDA lately.
Agree
I agree with this partly although I'm not sure this is the right place to post it.
Its a free forum and in its nature you will nearly always get this type of thing.
Yes it does burn out alot of the chef's but they also have lives that take on different directions as time moves on and so they come and go.
The bug reporting with no solution must be really pissing our chefs off and it is not just for roms.. I'm seeing it with software enhancements too.
At its core this is still by far the best forum for our devices. I believe XDA has always developed the best ROMS & enhancements for our devices and often take them to places the original manufacturers would never have dreamed of.
I just don't know how something like this can be policed. Nearly all the guys post in their first post something about not asking dumb questions but yet they still get them.
The ones that really piss me off are something like "Just flashed and now blah won't work" with absolutely no details at all.
What I do is leave the 'dumb questions' to the other users of my ROM to answer.. I find the userbase to be generally savvy enough to answer its own questions
The ones that I feel the userbase will not be able to answer easily or in a timely fashion, I post an answer for
It's not that I wouldn't like to have the time to sit there and answer all the 'dumb questions', but my time is better spent doing other things.. and the users don't seem to mind helping each other generally, when it's within their knowledge..
Then again my ROM is a little more hands-on than others, so i've already eliminated a good amount of the 'newbies' by it not being quite so easy to flash
mcmexican said:
I have been a member of XDA some time now. In the time that I have been a member I have used various forums from the Wizard thru the Raphael. I am seeing a transformation in the forum that I think we need to correct. When I first joined, the board was very different from the way it is today. The posts were more technical in nature, with people offering suggestions and posting not only the bugs they found with the ROM’s, but sometimes the fix as well. I feel that the Raphael forum has strayed far from that, to the point where people are just posting and waiting for the chefs to fix everything. I am not saying everyone does that, but it is the majority. There are two things I am concerned about. One, chefs are leaving from being burned out or simply not having the time to keep up with all the requests, Second, the quality of the ROMs. See, if we help the chefs by either resolving our own issues or helping them with bug resolution they will have more time for improvements and refinement. This will lead to the fastest most stable ROMs possible. I think the community needs to go back to the times when people were a little hesitant to just post anything, and actually do research and troubleshooting before bugging the chefs. Any and all comments would be appreciated, either agreeing or disagreeing with me.
-McMex
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P1Tater said:
I agree with you McMexican. Just had an issue in the Blackstone forum over this exact issue you mention here.
Originally Posted by P1Tater
Here's the issue with XDA lately and it's not just this thread that it's happening. The problem is that everyone reports a bug but noone tries to assist in fixing it. Everyone expects the cook to be all-knowing and be able to fix himself. However, these people have lives as well. They have families and jobs and don't have 24 hours in a day to just sit here on the thread and wait for people to report bugs so they have something to do. So, everyone complains, cries and whines about their issues and never once says what apps they have installed, uninstalled, what regs they have changed or files they have added or deleted and then wonder why the chef doesn't have the issue and why he can't fix it. Then when the chef gets upset. Then, when they do get upset then the "Thank You's" come. Did it ever occur to anyone to thank the chef when the rom worked? No, when it works you don't post and when it doesn't work you post complaints. I wonder why the chef's get upset . Just think about it.
What should happen is if it works, thank the chef or contribute. Damn, even a Thank You goes a long way. If you are having issues, maybe just maybe, report the issue, what you have tried, whatt apps you have installed and what you have uninstalled. Ususally when a chef cooks a rom, they don't install apps to the rom because everything they use is cooked in. Believe it or not, some apps will absolutely kill a rom.
This is what I posted in that thread but it seems as though it is worth mentioning here as this discusses the exact same issue we seem to be having all over XDA lately.
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I absolutely agree. Both of these posts describe the reality of the situation. Back in the wizard days for the most part only people pushing the edge of technology bought the windows mobile PDA phones. The same appled to the hermes for the most part. When I moved to the tilt the tides began to turn. Prices of this type of phone began to be more reasonable based upon the technology. More and more companies bagan pushing mail. The internet became more of a requirement than a novelty. Less and less tech savy users began to purchase. These buyers soon learned winmo had a ton of flaws and came to xda. Some spent the time to learn and have become valuable members of the forum. Many did not. They pop in and want us to be the fix all for thier issues. One prime example is GSleon3. How many tilts did he unbrick for people carelessly flashing tilts. When the Fuze arrived the problem only grew. Ive seen more new members in the last 3 months than my entire time on xda. A few of the new members have really taken the time to learn and contribute. MANY have not. I get at least 15 posts a day in my thread asking questions that are answered multiple times in the thread. I get at least 30 posts per day that could easily be answered in at least 1 thread on xda if not dozens.
Most of the chefs in this forum are pushing the limits with cutting edge builds. Da_G has more or less led the way. It amazes me how many users think everything should work perfectly. With all the easy kitchens and premade OEMs so many people think making a good stable rom is easy.
I commend Da_G on pushing the cooking aspect. Hopefully more will realize its not as easy as they think. Ive been at this for years and I learn something new every day.
Over the past month I have grown more and more discouraged. If rom users would spend that extra few minutes to find a fix I could do so much more.
I do however want to thank all of those that have searched, that have, helped,that have answered questions and have done so much to make mine and other chefs roms better
While I do agree with all of what has been stated, and myself to be considered a "NOOB", I really think it comes down to the individual user. I may have asked a question or two (or 30) that may have been answered already before, but I personally try to search and I do try to find the answers myself when I can. I do try and figure the answers myself, but I just don't have the expertise to do so quite often. But myself, I try to make up for my lack of capabilities by way of PayPal to our grear chefs. Others don't truly understand the amount of work that goes into the cooking of ROMS, I am BARELY tapping into that now. I have been visiting XDA for quite some time now and have seen it grow. Unfortunately the user base has grown very large, and it is hard to manage the forums. With there being so many places to find information in this website, it takes time just to locate the information you need. Sadly, I don't see much change unless you start locking down the members capabilities to post, which would defeat the whole purpose of a community forum. As far as it is for the ROM Chefs, a suggestion for you would to not publicly post your ROMs (except in the case of the kitchens, don't do that, I'm addicted!) right away. Maybe put a password on them upon download and have some filtering system or something and maybe only release the password selectively or something. And have a guideline for posters, like your post must contain this: and if the post doesn't have that, then don't even bother responding. Let's face it, we techies with out the tech knowledge are at the mercy of the chefs!
Site is free but maybe some type of short ban on posting for spammer and those who bug chef after three strikes or so by senior member. A chef doesnt cook for just one person he cooks to what you may like. If you dont like a chef rom try another or just go back to dead stock rom bug your carrier. But my idea might be to much work.
Idea
Radimus said:
and these VERY powerful tools are now in the hands of kids too immature to research for themselves
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Wow, really? Maybe you were a dumb kid, but I'd like to avoid this stereotype.
The users on threads need to stop asking dumb questions, though. I think a rating system should be implemented like on Engadget. That way every time someone makes a dumb post we can demote them and limit their post count per day
The reason why there is so many nOObs posting is that the Raphael has had such a tremendous success at the carrier level. Almost all of the US carriers have picked up the Touch Pro. So it is very reasonable to surmize that the majority of new users are new to windows mobile and completely blown away by the amazing amount of tweaks available for it.
Maybe the best idea is create special forums designed for Senior Members only to comment in. They would be locked to all others to comment on, but visible for all to see. Then create another set of forums for general discussion. I see absolutely no reason a development forum should be open to all anyway. I often think if I read one more "Downloading now!" post I will scream! So again, I would lock just the development and hacking forums to approved members, or at least make all posts be moderated first before they are posted. That will keep the development threads clean.
I would then load up the non development discussion forums and threads with adwords and advertising and give that money back to the real developers. LEt the nOObs pay for development indirectly through advertising.
sammypwns said:
Wow, really? Maybe you were a dumb kid, but I'd like to avoid this stereotype.
The users on threads need to stop asking dumb questions, though. I think a rating system should be implemented like on Engadget. That way every time someone makes a dumb post we can demote them and limit their post count per day
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Is this post really necessary?
Anyway,
I agree with McMex about the types of post but part of the problem is the organization of the information. Idea for you, Subdivide the forum so that the Cooked ROMs could have their own POST that was a sticky and only limited to the Chef for editing (containing information about updates and revisions etc,...). Then maybe create another post for ISSUES ONLY with the Cooked ROM. And then one more for the nonsense that burdens the Chef or other users like me who try and shift through the countless meaningless post by the "can you fix..." crew. This might help keep the organization of the VALUABLE information contained in this forum.
I use XDA to help me stay up on the latest stuff so I can impress the boss and his co-horts into believing that I am a technical wiz (ha!).
Anyway, this is a bit disorganized and polluted but if you take the time to search, read, search some more and read some more you can find a lot of great help here. But it does need some organizing. Maybe if some people would use discretion in posting it might help cut down on the smog, if you know what I mean.
DSmithZ28, I think that we are on the same idea.
Many people here started out as noobs, used what they read, and then became developers. I'm trying to do just that. It would not be helpful to limit what I can see as I would not be able to learn the development process as easily. This wave just has to be ridden out and the community will pick up some more help along the way.
Just thought of this from systematic approach and put it in numbers (guessed at the numbers):
Forum pre-influx:
60% Experienced Members
30% Moderate
9% Noobs
1% Don't know where they are
Forum post-influx
45% Experienced Members
24% Moderate
30% Noobs
1% Still celebrating Obama's election
-What this means is that there aren't enough mid level people ATM to handle all of the tedious questions that the developers shouldn't have to answer. As more noob's gain knowledge, there should be a shift in the paradigm, this will even itself out and lead to another great period for XDA!
One thought, what if there were some type of Pledge or Credo thread that would echo the sentiments of this thread. Make it so the new member cannot post until they've responded "Read and Understood" to that thread.
Whatever happens, I pledge to help people find their answers, as it helps me learn along the way.
I know this probably sounds retarded, but back in the Kasier days, there was a couple of users (Scotchua, McMexican, Mfrazzz, taiser999, crispyj, HDStreetglide, JimmyMcGee, Daveshaw, & rzanolgy just to name a few) who floated around all of the rom threads and answered questions along with giving links and subtle prodding of the search function. Maybe if there were more users who did this, things wouldn't be the way they are today. But it will take more than just a couple of users. It will take the work of everyone. Also, we need more users helping edit the wiki's. These are just a couple of suggestions.
Never a truer word spoken, guys
Definitely agree that the culture's changed around here over the past few years.
I dallied a little with cooking a year ago. I was lucky - I had several people helping me by providing solutions to the problems I had (I'm looking at you McMex there, among others!). Back on the Kaiser, every chef helped each other and there was a hardcore group of users who knew what they were talking about and offered solutions. On the Raphael, we've got an excellent group of chefs co-operating, and there are a few of the hardcore, helpful users but I think they're getting lost in the huge amount of other users who seem to think this is an HTC support forum - they've spent money on their phones and think we owe them!
Have the users changed here, or is it just we've got so many more (unconstructive) users in here that they're being too diluted to see?
My time in the kitchen taught me I was out of my depth, and eternal respect for those people who deserve to be in there!
Maybe a read/search count of couple hundred before you can post in the dev forum? Just a thought. Seems like an easiest solution to implement for now.
@ overjjrk
Lol at the 1% celebrating Obama's election
And back on topic, I vote for a Question and Answers section for every device!
Agreed "at least 100%" to post one.
I started - as everybody did - as a NOOB and somehow I learned fairly good (*cough cough*) how to deal with these devices. I do also try to pick up threads now and then surfing the forum and trying to help (enough praise) but it trips me off BIG TIME that it seems meanwhile that NOOB's barely use the search, have no idea how google is spelled and give up after the first try or EVEN WORSE bump their own threads if the don't receive a quick answer. Good that I can keep my temper but sometimes I'd really like to answer "@@#$%%^&"....
I do like what pages like "blownfuze" or "fuzemobilty" provide for NOOBs because with that information stickies would take at least the first three pages of a subject.
Not sure if it can/will work out but fine tuning the Wiki (without breaking it) may help a bit since we all live from the contributions of each other.
An approach could be a Readme 1st section where either only mods or users willing to take this task, can contribute (guess mods will be overwhelmed since they too have a daytime job) and no replies are allowed.
One of the biggest issues and posts I do see recently is "setup the device to a certain provider". I'm not a cab or software guy but could one of these great people here perhaps come up with an idea to have a CAB which will simply set up the connection setting the that particular provider? There aren't more than 2 dozen major ones world wide so that could bring freedom to the chefs to deal with provider specific settings and keep concentrated on fine tuning a ROM still being open for the whole world.... just one of the ideas.
Let's see how this thread evolves.
how about i just start banning people that don't live in new york?
i think this is a good way to go about things.
I am so feed up with people on this board that think they are entitled and better than us to ask a question that has been asked a million times, instead of searching. It is only getting worse. Now that leakers have root, ppl from androidforum (where the mods treat them like babies and shield them) are flooding this forum with repeated threads and posts. We are not helping them by answering the questions for them. We need to stop this! I for one will no longer give the answer after a smart @$$ reply. I will only leave the smart @$$ comment in.
For those that are lazy and read this. Why do you think you are better than any of us that use search, trial and error? If yuo dont understand it, and cant search, then dont do it. Plain and simple.
I'd say don't answer them. I myself am not educated at all in rooting and could answer a decent amount of questions I see.
So....rather than looking up their question to see if they could have done the same thing previous to them making a new thread....don't
By doing this we'll at least take some slack off from the moderators from closing unnecessary threads bashing foolish OP's....and instead let them focus on real questions and site maintenance. I feel doing otherwise will lead to more silly threads and more attention to these threads a.k.a. bashing them you know.
Also we need not let this thread turn into ANYTHING like XDA vs. androidforums because it still is a teaching/learning community, some people just need to work/search harder before they make threads.
cpupeli1 said:
I'd say don't answer them. I myself am not educated at all in rooting and could answer a decent amount of questions I see.
So....rather than looking up their question to see if they could have done the same thing previous to them making a new thread....don't
By doing this we'll at least take some slack off from the moderators from closing unnecessary threads bashing foolish OP's....and instead let them focus on real questions and site maintenance. I feel doing otherwise will lead to more silly threads and more attention to these threads a.k.a. bashing them you know.
Also we need not let this thread turn into ANYTHING like XDA vs. androidforums because it still is a teaching/learning community, some people just need to work/search harder before they make threads.
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I am not trying to make it a af vs xda. Was just giving an example of how things are there. Whole point of my rant/post was people need to search and ppl need to stop helping ppl that dont search. But just putting that wouldnt have felt better after typing.
I am totally with you droidkevlar. I am no senior member or dev or anything like that. I'm just a regular user who is fortunate enough to have devs like you working to make our phones great. I posted this in a thanks thread, but I suppose I could have posted a new thread like you did.
Also, I just want to stress the importance of SEARCHING AND READING!!!! I made the mistake early on of just either creating a new thread or posting in the wrong thread just so I wouldn't have to read to find the answer. THAT WAS FREAKIN STUPID ON MY PART!!! I wish I would have just read up on everything I wanted to know in the beginning. I would have saved myself a ton of headaches and resets. I would have also learned more than what I know now. I now know that if I want to ask a question, to just search for it first. I can't count the times that someone else has asked the same questions that have been answered countless times. And if I'm wanting to try a script, or change my lock screen or something along those lines, IT HELPS TO READ ALL OF THE POSTS IN THAT PARTICULAR THREAD particularly because most likely, someone with your setup has encountered some sort of problem, did some troubleshooting, and posted a fix for it.
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the new guys need to stop posting help threads in the dev forum for one.
I don't see a huge problem if its kept to the general section. Maybe even a sticky thread for newbies where they can see links to threads for most commonly asked questions and they can post some questions in that thread only.
This way it keeps it all compartmentalized and separated from the rest of the forum. We can direct all the new guys there. If any of the more experienced guys who want to help, they can do so in that thread only.
I understand how too many newbs can clutter up a forum pretty quick. But a lot of this stuff even after searching and reading still leaves a lot of questions, until you absorb the whole concept of this phone/os/rooting culture.
If we don't help some of the new users, we will end up with more threads about how they bricked their phones and then the real flame wars will start.
Keep it in one area. It has to be dealt with, we can't ignore them. We all gain if we share some knowledge, but lay down some ground rules beforehand.
Jp50 said:
the new guys need to stop posting help threads in the dev forum for one.
I don't see a huge problem if its kept to the general section. Maybe even a sticky thread for newbies where they can see links to threads for most commonly asked questions and they can post some questions in that thread only.
This way it keeps it all compartmentalized and separated from the rest of the forum. We can direct all the new guys there. If any of the more experienced guys who want to help, they can do so in that thread only.
I understand how too many newbs can clutter up a forum pretty quick. But a lot of this stuff even after searching and reading still leaves a lot of questions, until you absorb the whole concept of this phone/os/rooting culture.
If we don't help some of the new users, we will end up with more threads about how they bricked their phones and then the real flame wars will start.
Keep it in one area. It has to be dealt with, we can't ignore them. We all gain if we share some knowledge, but lay down some ground rules beforehand.
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I agree 100%. I was a newb before. But I always search first before posting. Even to this day, I 2X to make sure I searched correctly before posting on here.
droidkevlar said:
I agree 100%. I was a newb before. But I always search first before posting. Even to this day, I 2X to make sure I searched correctly before posting on here.
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you were a big help to me and without you i would be s.o.l.
the newbie thing isn't going away and dealing with it in a way that satisfies everyone makes the most sense.
I learned alot in the last few weeks. I pretty much spend all my time here now. I'm willing to help with some basic rooting tips for any of the real new guys.
You were right, this phone will consume your life!
I has a question.
What is rootz? and hows to I gets it??
No thanks. I've been using the internet long enough to know that people don't change and that being a **** about things doesn't help anyone. I'd rather actually provide something for the community other than "USE THE SEARCH" and tell them what they need to know while reminding them that the search function would have just saved everyone the time.
If you really care that much don't go into their topics, this is hardly a bustling forum with a thousand posts an hour clogging the thing, a few **** topics where someone gets confused really has no effect on us. YES they should learn, but like I said being a **** does nothing about it.
My 2 cents.
P.S. I love your themes.
P.S.S. I always used the search lol
Hungry Man said:
No thanks. I've been using the internet long enough to know that people don't change and that being a **** about things doesn't help anyone. I'd rather actually provide something for the community other than "USE THE SEARCH" and tell them what they need to know while reminding them that the search function would have just saved everyone the time.
If you really care that much don't go into their topics, this is hardly a bustling forum with a thousand posts an hour clogging the thing, a few **** topics where someone gets confused really has no effect on us. YES they should learn, but like I said being a **** does nothing about it.
My 2 cents.
P.S. I love your themes.
P.S.S. I always used the search lol
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Check out Kaosfroyo thread....now tell me that out of those 4k+ post, 1k or so isnt dumb questions being asked over and over and over. That is just 1 thread. They feel entitled and dont want to search. Its the same kids that blamed devs for them putting leak on their phones and not letting them have root until now. This was more of a rant more than anything. As I have grown feed up with reading the same thing over and over and over and over. Perfect example is my threads. Even though in big, bold, red letters saying dont flash via recovery my MM's, they complain. I mean, its plain as day and they still screw it up.
And thanks for liking my theme. Only reason I made a Froyo one is so many liked the OG Kevlar Mash.
KF as an example, half the posts in that topic if not more are literally just spam or talking about random ****. I don't care because whatever people are having a nice chat but if anything that's even worse because it's absolutely irrellevant to the topic. Like I said, I've got no problem with it and am up for a chat any time.
But I see what you're saying. There is a difference though between asking legitimate questions that can be answered with a search and asking dumb questions that have been answered right there in the topic, no search even required. There really isn't any excuse when people ask questions that are answered right in the first post. I hate all of the posts in the dev stick where it plainly says "DO NOT POST IN HERE UNLESS YOU ARE MAKING A SUGGESTION" and three people so far have actually posted there just asking random questions... it's a bit ridiculous.
I just feel like rather than telling someone off for asking a question it's best to just educate them and let them know how to use a forum. Not everyone is used to being on a forum after all.
Hungry Man said:
I just feel like rather than telling someone off for asking a question it's best to just educate them and let them know how to use a forum. Not everyone is used to being on a forum after all.
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I both agree and disagree with the arguments made here. Personally, I don't ask too many questions because I try to conduct thorough research on my own knowing that somewhere someone else has asked the question before and it must be answered somehow (which is why I don't post too much). I'm horrible at using the forum search, though. Google is much better and it will actually bring up XDA and AF forum posts in the search (amongst other items and forums so that's my search of choice).
Some people are not quite as "internet savvy" and I agree that many are lazy, however personally I think if you can't perform a simple google search you have no business messing with technology at all.
I understand people want to learn and sometimes if you're just starting out you don't know where to start in which case a simple tactfully answered question with a push in the right direction towards research resources would be much more appropriate than "use the search, newb" but generally you can differentiate those with a genuine willingness & aptitude to learn & who may just need some guidance, and those who are just too ignorant or lazy to guide themselves.
That's just my $0.02.
It doesn't matter how many times you tell people to search. If your on any forum at all there are always going to be lots of people posting multiple threads that have already been answered. I'm not saying its ok just inevitable.
Sent from my leaked rooted HTC Droid Eris with Sense-Able 3.1 using Swype
I am pretty much on the same page with digitaljeannie on this one. However, a lot of us gloss over the fact that a lot of people just don't know how to search for stuff, or are just absolutely not tech savvy at all. The idea of trying to do anything outside of "the norm" on something phone or computer oriented scares them. If computers are confusing to you, the last thing you want to do is start messing with programs and such that can potentially make your phone inoperable. I walked a gentleman through the process of rooting, and he absolutely could not take a step without me telling him what to do. He wasn't even sure what a zip file was, so trying to do command line prompts pretty much terrified him without someone being there to tell him what to put in, baby step, by baby step. Now, just because he was clueless, doesn't mean he shouldn't enjoy being rooted. Also, being good at searching for stuff is a skill that a lot of you might not even realize you are good at, as it seems natural. However, I have came across quite a few people who are intelligent in other things, but can't find stuff online worth a hoot. I'm often going behind people who say I can't find this info on such and such, and I'll have it in like 10 minutes. Sure there are tons of lazy people who want you to do the work, but it's a shame to paint the same broad stroke for everyone...
I don't think it's really fair to say "If you can't do one thing you shouldn't do the other." I mean I can barely manage a google maps search to get where I want to go but I can do minor programming and know more about hardware than anyone else I know. People shouldn't be stuck with an unrooted eris ever lol and whether they are into computers or not they should have the right to root it and use the phone the way they want to.
not for nothin..... this is the 4th seperate "rant" post Ive read this week on this very topic......... physician heal thyself
While all of you make very good points. I just feel like if they cant search or are too scared, then maybe like the other 70%+ people that dont root their phone, they shouldnt either. And if they complain about its functions, then they shouldnt have bought the phone. Get an iPhone or BlackBerry. Android OS is meant for tech savy ppl IMO. I love Android more than my wife but at work when they asked what phones to get, I said iPhone. Just because users here are not very smart...even thought they have PhD's, lol
I think the idea that Android OS is for the tech savy only is a bit of a dangerous rumor that's pretty unjustified. I went from not having any smartphone to going to android 1.6 and it really is quite userfriendly. Tap icon to open, tap and hold for more options, tap and drag to move; these are the basic movements that set the stage for the entire phone, there's nothing fancy.
Apple basically puts out to web blogs (*cough gizmodo endgadget cough*) these rumors that Android OS is far less user friendly than iOS but really anyone can figure it out very quickly.
iPhones are simpler only in the sense that they treat their users with super kiddy gloves, no true multitasking, one button, very simple functionality by removing complex functionality. But if you're an unrooted android user there's really very little you can do to mess up your phone that you could not already do to your iphone.
Hungry Man said:
I think the idea that Android OS is for the tech savy only is a bit of a dangerous rumor that's pretty unjustified. I went from not having any smartphone to going to android 1.6 and it really is quite userfriendly. Tap icon to open, tap and hold for more options, tap and drag to move; these are the basic movements that set the stage for the entire phone, there's nothing fancy.
Apple basically puts out to web blogs (*cough gizmodo endgadget cough*) these rumors that Android OS is far less user friendly than iOS but really anyone can figure it out very quickly.
iPhones are simpler only in the sense that they treat their users with super kiddy gloves, no true multitasking, one button, very simple functionality by removing complex functionality. But if you're an unrooted android user there's really very little you can do to mess up your phone that you could not already do to your iphone.
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Click to collapse
Let me re-word that. The ERIS is for more of the tech savy. Reason I say that is because it is kind of a slow phone stock. Once rooted, bloatware removed and OC'd, it rocks.
I gotcha =p
I was wondering if someone knew off the top of their head where text under icons on the notification pull down come from. Are they hard code or pulled from a sys var. I want to delete them. If they are code in a file what is the file name?
I have looked in a few files and I have either missed it or have not looked in the right file yet. My eyes are going cross from reading hex code.
Thanks
It's within the twframework-res.apk. I have forgotten which xml though.
Questions of this nature should be asked in Q&A section.
good day.
chopper the dog said:
It's within the twframework-res.apk. I have forgotten which xml though.
Questions of this nature should be asked in Q&A section.
good day.
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Click to collapse
Thanks. I'll go through there again.
I was going to put it in the Q&A but its not a general question. Since it is about dev. I went ahead and put it here. Sometime its hard to decide where to post a question.
Thanks again
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=979224
"Currently people are asking quite a few questions in the development section. Starting today (3/3/2011) any new question threads made in the development sections WILL be moved to the Q&A section without a redirect thread. DO NOT POST QUESTIONS IN THE DEV FORUM."
BrwnSuperman said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=979224
"Currently people are asking quite a few questions in the development section. Starting today (3/3/2011) any new question threads made in the development sections WILL be moved to the Q&A section without a redirect thread. DO NOT POST QUESTIONS IN THE DEV FORUM."
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And you needed to do this why? Make yourself feel like a mod? Some people need to grow up here. jeez
MSHancock said:
And you needed to do this why? Make yourself feel like a mod? Some people need to grow up here. jeez
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He needed to do it because you obviously still believed that this question belonged in the development forum. It doesn't, as pointed out without any flaming and in a totally innocuous way. As far as I can tell the only one who needs to grow up here is you.
You made a mistake, instead of defending that mistake in the face of irrefutable proof that you are wrong, just admit it and move on. You only make yourself seem more ignorant when you get upset that people are doing their best to keep posts where they belong. Your question was a good one, just please post it in the correct board next time so we can keep the development board open for development topics.
Nothing against you man, just really getting tired of people getting so pissed off when someone tells them they are in the wrong section.
I agree, my post was in the wrong section. I thanked chopper for pointing out where I should have put it. I went back and went over ashasaur's new posting rules and saw the section he posted way before BrwnSuperman posted it.
With that said
You get pissed when someone tells a OP they are in the wrong section
I get pissed when I see people standing in line to play mod and ***** at someone
How about we agree to disagree. Everyone has a different opinion and we are all here for the same reason.
MSHancock said:
I agree, my post was in the wrong section. I thanked chopper for pointing out where I should have put it. I went back and went over ashasaur's new posting rules and saw the section he posted way before BrwnSuperman posted it.
With that said
You get pissed when someone tells a OP they are in the wrong section
I get pissed when I see people standing in line to play mod and ***** at someone
How about we agree to disagree. Everyone has a different opinion and we are all here for the same reason.
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Click to collapse
"I was going to put it in the Q&A but its not a general question. Since it is about dev. I went ahead and put it here. Sometime its hard to decide where to post a question."
You seemed a bit confused so I thought I would just point it out in the rules, I didn't add anything personal in.
MSHancock said:
You get pissed when someone tells a OP they are in the wrong section
I get pissed when I see people standing in line to play mod and ***** at someone
How about we agree to disagree.
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Click to collapse
How about we agree to not let forum posts actually make us angry.
Real life is the only thing that requires an emotional response, not internet land.
Relax guys. Nobody has even insulted someone else's mother yet.
BrwnSuperman said:
"I was going to put it in the Q&A but its not a general question. Since it is about dev. I went ahead and put it here. Sometime its hard to decide where to post a question."
You seemed a bit confused so I thought I would just point it out in the rules, I didn't add anything personal in.
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Click to collapse
Agreed. You didn't and I did by snapping at ya. For that I will say sorry.
I should have went over the new rules again since it had been awhile since my last post.
Just do what I, and many others here have done.. stop posting on XDA. It seems no matter where you post nowadays, it's the wrong section.
A development section where you can't talk about development, only announce your releases, which you must know how to do on your own, since you can't ask questions. But no app or theme releases, those go somewhere else where you can't talk about themes or apps. General, where you can't ask questions, only state factual things about anything not having to do with development, or apps, or themes, or other phones, or anything having to do with issues with your phone, especially your battery life, or a development release not working correctly, or anything somewhat resembling a request for an expert opinion, such as a release date.
In short, the rules here could easily be shortened to:
Don't post anywhere about anything. Welcome to XDA.
Caution: This post may be moved shortly, as it contains a welcome to a fellow XDA member, which may require it's placement in the XDA member chat section, or general, seeing as there are no questions, or Q&A, seeing as it answers a question, or maybe the main Android section, seeing as it has to do with the XDA forums. Either way, it
'll be in the wrong forum and I'll yet again get a long line of people hopping on the "wrong forum, asshat!" bandwagon.
Here is a tip from me to the entirety of internet users:
If you ever feel angry about someone who has "wronged" you on an internet forum, immediately call someone who doesn't use the internet as much as you (parents, significant other, non-techie best friend).
Now attempt to explain the situation to that person.
Or maybe just imagine doing this in your mind, because that's all it usually takes to realize how incredibly dumb you will then feel for getting angry about anything that happens on the internet.
Grandma: "...he told you your thread was in the wrong forum... and that makes you angry..."
You: "Ya... ok so it's a bigger deal than it sounds like. My reputation is at stake here."
Grandma: "What is a forum? Get their mothers' phone numbers and I'll have a stern talk with them."
GizmoDroid said:
Here is a tip from me to the entirety of internet users:
If you ever feel angry about someone who has "wronged" you on an internet forum, immediately call someone who doesn't use the internet as much as you (parents, significant other, non-techie best friend).
Now attempt to explain the situation to that person.
Grandma: "...he told you your thread was in the wrong forum... and that makes you angry..."
You: "Ya... ok so it's a bigger deal than it sounds like. My reputation is at stake here."
Grandma: "What is a forum? Get their mothers' phone numbers and I'll have a stern talk with them."
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Click to collapse
Or in a logical, realistic way:
You: "I spent hours upon hours learning, testing, fixing, coding and sharing something, for zero income, just to have someone nix it all out in a heartbeat for some bull**** reason."
Grandma: "I would be upset, too"
If you think real people are not on the other end of your posts, you are the reason people get angry.
MSHancock said:
Agreed. You didn't and I did by snapping at ya. For that I will say sorry.
I should have went over the new rules again since it had been awhile since my last post.
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I retract my sorry!
I went through some of your post and you do seem to have a "WANNA BE MOD" problem. Your constantly telling people where things should go.
Domush said:
If you think real people are not on the other end of your posts, you are the reason people get angry.
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The only time anyone gets upset by what I say is when they read a tone into what I'm writing that wasn't my intention. I am encouraging the reader to being less sensitive when reading posts.
If you look in other threads, you will see that I encourage the writers of posts to be concise and straight-forward but patient with requests for help or when reporting problems, instead of demanding someone else to solve their problem. Instead of getting angry about it, I let them know about how inefficient their method of approaching the issue is, and try to encourage them to make posts that help the flow of information, instead of hinder it.
Personally, I'm offended more by the fact that negativity slows down development, then that someone said something that hurts my feelings. Positive, well written posts = Better, faster development.
Let's face it, there are a lot of people in this world who, when put behind the anonymous barrier of a computer screen, lose their minds and do nothing but slow everyone down. Those people suck, but you have to find a way to deal with them.
Most other times, its just a normal person who writes something in an ambiguous way, and another person is overly sensitive when reading. Unfortunately, in android land, it seems like we attract a higher percentage of the uncouth, immature crowd who run their mouth without stopping to think about how the other person might feel. Often times, these people are also the overly sensitive ones (but not always).
So while your point is true, it really didn't apply to what I was saying. I hope this post clears that up, and also encourages a healthy attitude towards communication between developers and users.
Our forums are just full of whiney bossy people. I suggest when someone tries to correct your "error"... dont respond (unless the error is device related of course) bc when the op gets defensive in any way the other posters feel they need to defend themselves. End result.... threads like this. It is quite obviously through any persons daily routine, some people we encounter cant/dont/wont follow instruction.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
Awesome.
Not only was the question in the wrong section (and still is...), it will now get closed by a mod once one of them gets off their ass.
And one more person who needs to add thei 2 cents. This thread should have been trashed a log time ago.
clap clap clap clap (awesome content people). ataranine (good trolling).
But anywho, @OP you might find it easier to grab a twframework-res.apk that has been edited the way you want and change images if need be. Because if you find the edit that needs to be done you will still need to contend with the position and size of the other elements of the quickpanel. i.e. Once text is gone the background image for the buttons will still be drawn to the same size as if text were there and if you do edit the way that image is drawn then the padding of all other elements will need to be edited. So the lazy way will prevail on this one. Kang it.
good day.
It seems like every other posted question or comment lately is answered with a smart ass remark or the op is insulted for an honest mistake or posting a question that they didnt realize had already been asked. Yes we know we need to read before posting. Sometimes people just want to ask the question from their point of view. If half of the replies would be helpful answers instead of insulting comments the forums wouldnt get jammed up with "repeat questions". For the most part people seem cool on here and Im just wondering what some others think of this?
Get your flame suit on cause you're about to get toasted for this thread.
But I agree with you. I'm kinda tired of the attitude here but this has been my home for 2 years and I don't plan on leaving. I wish people would drop the attitudes and be more helpful sometimes. It is what it is though. I just turn a blind eye to it.
Cheers
Sent from my SGH-I777 using xda premium
I dont care about being flamed. I see others get flamed all the time on here. If someone is going to post another smart ass comment to my post then they should not bother. I understand people are people and I am not going anywhere either. But it just gets old...
I've noticed, and I agree with you. Unfortunately, it seems as though our forum is slowly starting to turn into most others I've seen. Let's hope it doesn't get worse.
There is absolutely no use in the way some people respond. For some reason, they don't seem to realize that the time they wasted on creating a snarky remark took up more time than just passing the thread by. Usually, someone will be kind enough to provide help or direction. I understand the frustration some times, and think users should be educated on how to go about finding information that already exists. BUT, when it's done with an unnecessary attitude, or worse, attitude is given with no useful help, it accomplishes nothing. It creates an atmosphere that doesn't lend itself to building our community.
I'm normally really quiet on here unless I have some constructive comment or help those that are in need who really need it.
But, the main problem for all the noob question is the lack of direction for noobs to find the info they really need to seek out. Common problem on any type of forum, but is part of how community forums work. Microsoft's community does a good job in controlling this with great help with constructive help on posts given by the moderators and links from others who shared the same type of problem.
Just my 2 pence worth.
Simba501 said:
I've noticed, and I agree with you. Unfortunately, it seems as though our forum is slowly starting to turn into most others I've seen. Let's hope it doesn't get worse.
There is absolutely no use in the way some people respond. For some reason, they don't seem to realize that the time they wasted on creating a snarky remark took up more time than just passing the thread by. Usually, someone will be kind enough to provide help or direction. I understand the frustration some times, and think users should be educated on how to go about finding information that already exists. BUT, when it's done with an unnecessary attitude, or worse, attitude is given with no useful help, it accomplishes nothing. It creates an atmosphere that doesn't lend itself to building our community.
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You just hit the nail on the head!
capathy21 said:
It seems like every other posted question or comment lately is answered with a smart ass remark or the op is insulted for an honest mistake or posting a question that they didnt realize had already been asked. Yes we know we need to read before posting. Sometimes people just want to ask the question from their point of view. If half of the replies would be helpful answers instead of insulting comments the forums wouldnt get jammed up with "repeat questions". For the most part people seem cool on here and Im just wondering what some others think of this?
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Click to collapse
The reason is that XDA is traditionally a DEVELOPER forum. Not a CONSUMER forum.
Yes, the original purpose of XDA has expanded, however back in the day, this site was mostly focused on technical issues. Rather than asking a simple and probably already answered question, *everyone* searched and searched again to find an answer. And if that didn't work, it was preferably to PM someone a question over starting a whole thread titled: "X thing that I'm trying to do doesn't work. Please help me!!! Sorry I'm a n00b!!!"".
There are no "stupid" question per se (though really, some folks around here push that boundary to its absolute limit), but there are plenty of already answered questions floating around. Even the OP's question/comment has been addressed millions of times before around here. Experienced XDA users get annoyed when people ask those same questions over and over again. And even though everyone says "I searched but couldn't find an answer for X", usually that's not really true. They may have quickly tried a single search term in the Vbulletin search, then probably gave up. They almost certainly haven't read the official XDA rules, and certainly haven't tried creative ways of finding the answer they are looking for.
This IS A DEVELOPER COMMUNITY. If you can't be bothered to try more than a few minutes of searching, then you are lazy, and it's not really worth the time of others to respond. Hence the flaming, and the anger, and the people attacking n00bs for already-answered questions. This is not a "community support forum" for those people who just picked up a new device and what to "r00tz that ****z" so they can play pirated games and tether for free. This is a community for people to work together on technical aspects of our amazing devices, and squeeze every drop of power from the silicon/glass/plastic devices we all love so much. Yes, people are people, not everyone will search properly, and yes, the majority user-base of XDA has changed a lot over the past 3-4 years. That doesn't mean you can just do whatever you want and not follow the clearly posted XDA rules. And it doesn't mean you have the right to post threads of "OMFG I can't believe how mean all these people who donate their time for free to the community are". Get over it. If you want to idly chat and whine about this that and the other, there are plenty of other places on the internet to do that. XDA is not the place.
Originally, there was very little hostility around XDA over stupid or silly threads. This was because they were so rare, and were often honest mistakes. I don't want to read about your whining and complaining about people being mean. You're right, I *could* just skip over the thread and not say anything (which, undoubtedly, many folks are given the responses so far). But you posted it in the Galaxy S2 i777 General Forum. This thread has nothing to do with the i777 GS2. Whine elsewhere, or be flamed. That's the long and short of it.
Good luck and welcome to XDA!
I have noticed this and commented on it in other threads also. The forum has went to **** the past few months.
I have been on this account for almost 3 years on here and 2 before that with another account so i have seen the changes. The reason there are so many newbs and questions is because Android and tablet use has exploded in the past year and half.
Sent from my SGH-I897 using xda premium
Agreed with OP, I am an active member on the NOOKcolor forum and I've tried to help newbies over and over and over and over and over and over again.
Yes, today newbie A asks a question, next week, newbie B ask the same question, and so on. Not only me but entire XDA members in NC room politely answering all and guide them through each step. Coming into this SGS2 room, geez, reading posts/responses really disappointed. Developers are great but power users seem to be God and expect every newbie has to know before asking. Duh, really?
I don't know if before they know about those stuff, when they were still newbie, didn't anyone showed them nicely step by step or just yelled at them like they do now
People can be assholes. Yes, most of the time it is uncalled for. i try to help when I can, because I hope someone will help me when I need it. But, at the same time, people need to learn to try to help themselves. See my sig.
We were all newbs at one point - even still, it's expected that everyone, newb and veteran alike are to read the rules and use the search function.
It's all well and good that someone makes an honest mistake by posting the same threads over again, but when it happens by every Joe Blow that comes in here, two or more times a week, and there's already 10 threads on the same topic, and said person never thought to use the search function, has **** grammar and syntax even asking their question or making a "Galaxy S II vs. ?" for the 18th time, it pisses those of us off that actually used our brain when we came here.
See, you got it all wrong: XDA wasn't made for you and I - it is a DEVELOPER'S forum. They were kind enough to let the average user sign up, expecting us to be knowledgeable enough not to be asshats that make a hundred of the same threads. Being self-entitled, thinking that the users who want to keep the developers actually developing, not answering bull**** questions for the 15th time are in the wrong for being firm, even harsh with people that don't, then there's the door. You either help the developers or get out of the way. If the developers or power users are kind enough to help answer certain questions once or twice, then count it as a blessing. DON'T even get mad when those people are then annoyed because the newb doesn't abide by rules or use their brain.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda premium
votinh said:
Agreed with OP, I am an active member on the NOOKcolor forum and I've tried to help newbies over and over and over and over and over and over again.
Yes, today newbie A asks a question, next week, newbie B ask the same question, and so on. Not only me but entire XDA members in NC room politely answering all and guide them through each step. Coming into this SGS2 room, geez, reading posts/responses really disappointed. Developers are great but power users seem to be God and expect every newbie has to know before asking. Duh, really?
I don't know if before they know about those stuff, when they were still newbie, didn't anyone showed them nicely step by step or just yelled at them like they do now
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When I was a n00b I read XDA for hours and hours before I would consider posting. And I tried very hard to read as much as possible before asking questions. That's how a n00b becomes a power user. By learning on their own. Plus, if asked with humility, and a sincere effort to "search before posting", you'll find people tend to not actually get flamed. It's only when people express their feeling of entitlement to an answer they could have probably discovered themselves that problems begin to brew...
Shammyh said:
The reason is that XDA is traditionally a DEVELOPER forum. Not a CONSUMER forum.
Yes, the original purpose of XDA has expanded, however back in the day, this site was mostly focused on technical issues. Rather than asking a simple and probably already answered question, *everyone* searched and searched again to find an answer. And if that didn't work, it was preferably to PM someone a question over starting a whole thread titled: "X thing that I'm trying to do doesn't work. Please help me!!! Sorry I'm a n00b!!!"".
There are no "stupid" question per se (though really, some folks around here push that boundary to its absolute limit), but there are plenty of already answered questions floating around. Even the OP's question/comment has been addressed millions of times before around here. Experienced XDA users get annoyed when people ask those same questions over and over again. And even though everyone says "I searched but couldn't find an answer for X", usually that's not really true. They may have quickly tried a single search term in the Vbulletin search, then probably gave up. They almost certainly haven't read the official XDA rules, and certainly haven't tried creative ways of finding the answer they are looking for.
This IS A DEVELOPER COMMUNITY. If you can't be bothered to try more than a few minutes of searching, then you are lazy, and it's not really worth the time of others to respond. Hence the flaming, and the anger, and the people attacking n00bs for already-answered questions. This is not a "community support forum" for those people who just picked up a new device and what to "r00tz that ****z" so they can play pirated games and tether for free. This is a community for people to work together on technical aspects of our amazing devices, and squeeze every drop of power from the silicon/glass/plastic devices we all love so much. Yes, people are people, not everyone will search properly, and yes, the majority user-base of XDA has changed a lot over the past 3-4 years. That doesn't mean you can just do whatever you want and not follow the clearly posted XDA rules. And it doesn't mean you have the right to post threads of "OMFG I can't believe how mean all these people who donate their time for free to the community are". Get over it. If you want to idly chat and whine about this that and the other, there are plenty of other places on the internet to do that. XDA is not the place.
Originally, there was very little hostility around XDA over stupid or silly threads. This was because they were so rare, and were often honest mistakes. I don't want to read about your whining and complaining about people being mean. You're right, I *could* just skip over the thread and not say anything (which, undoubtedly, many folks are given the responses so far). But you posted it in the Galaxy S2 i777 General Forum. This thread has nothing to do with the i777 GS2. Whine elsewhere, or be flamed. That's the long and short of it.
Good luck and welcome to XDA!
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Click to collapse
I did not post this to "whine". I posted it because if I am reading something I get sick of smart ass responses. It may have been a developer only forum at one time but it no longer is. I along with many other people here are in no way developers, but know a little bit about it compared to the average joe and want to learn more. I greatly appreciate the hard working devs who donate their time and genius minds so that we can get the most out of our devices. Its not my first rodeo on a device forum by any means. They are designed for people to help others and learn. There is no place for the attitude. Period.
Shammyh said:
The reason is that XDA is traditionally a DEVELOPER forum. Not a CONSUMER forum.
This IS A DEVELOPER COMMUNITY.
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I've been on XDA for a little over a year, I think...ever since I got the captivate. I think I may have 1 or 2 posts in the development forum and 10 or 11 in the general forums. I have spent countless hours searching, reading, searching some more and reading some more until I got the answer I needed for my particular question. Almost 100% of the issues people ask about have been answered before.
That said, I think you're off of on a couple of your bolded comments. This is just as much of a consumer forum as it is a developers forum. The developers themselves have made it that way.
Nearly all google searches about android issues point to some XDA thread. Developers work hard and are often times compensated for their work (donations.) Although, I do not think the main driving force for their hard work is donations. They do it because they love it and they want to share their work with the CONSUMERS that frequent this site.
Flaming an unsuspecting consumer, who may not have done enough research on their own, into oblivion only has negative effects. That person may be a donator that decides to leave, for example. I've used the forum search on a number of occasions and to be honest, it is quite cumbersome...there is just so much data to go through. That doesn't stop me but it is quite frustrating some times.
I think a more effective strategy for dealing with consumers, who may not be as diligent at researching as most, would be to simply ignore the post. This will force them to do more research on their own. Now, you have a user who does more research on their own and you don't look like a ****.
Flaming is pointless. Those that do it are jerks.
Shammyh said:
When I was a n00b I read XDA for hours and hours before I would consider posting. And I tried very hard to read as much as possible before asking questions. That's how a n00b becomes a power user. By learning on their own. Plus, if asked with humility, and a sincere effort to "search before posting", you'll find people tend to not actually get flamed. It's only when people express their feeling of entitlement to an answer they could have probably discovered themselves that problems begin to brew...
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Click to collapse
Yup, in addition to one of the links in my sig being STRONGLY recommended reading:
Whenever I purchase a device, I always spend at least an hour or two a day for 2-3 days reading the forums for that device to learn its ins and outs before I post ANYTHING. Actually, in many cases, I do that before even purchasing.
XDA has clearly stated rules, and Rule #1 is to search before posting. In addition, any new users has to watch the infamous "Noob on XDA" video as part of the registration process now.
So there is NO excuse for not searching. Especially when a user posts a new thread with:
1) A question from the FAQ - it is there for a reason
2) A question that has already been covered in MULTIPLE topics that are still on the first 1-2 pages of the forum. It takes 30 seconds to skim through a page of thread titles - but users insist that someone else spend 2-3 minutes digging up a thread for them instead of spending a minute to read thread titles.
Yes, sometimes we can spend almost as much time on the flame - but at least that lets us relieve our stress at yet another user who thinks they deserve special treatment and doesn't have to follow the rules.
Edit: As to just ignoring a post - A user that didn't bother to search won't go away. They'll do something even more annoying like creating yet another NEW thread, posting a thread in Development because it wasn't answered in General or Q&A, or bumping their thread after only 12 hours. They only way they'll learn any lesson is to get a little toasty.
While donations are nice, the kind of user who comes with the kind of sense of self-entitlement that gets them flamed isn't going to donate anyway. Plus I could get quadruple the donations I've received in 3 months, and I'd still wind up with less than half a week's pay at my real job.
The amount of time one will spend searching and reading will be FAR less than the time you waste because you didn't read and screwed something up.
"Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, you feed him for life." (Yeah, I mangled that slightly...)
This is a DEVELOPERS forum, it always has been and always will be. Without developers, it's no different than Android Central or any other forum.
Ok there wouldnt be anyone giving noobs attitude if they just followed the rules. **** they even make you watch a video b4 becoming a member here. If you have a question chances are someone has already asked/answered it. There is a search bar for a reason. USE IT! If not the by all means go ahead and post Im 100% sure you wont get **** for it. They even have a suggested thread dropdown when creating a new one, hoping someone sees that there has already been a threat opened pertaining to that particular subject. Its frustrating to other uzers who read these fourms day in and day out seeing some kid with one post asking the same question someone had already posted 3 times now. simply put quit being lazy and search just like everyone else here has b4 they asked a question.
Shammyh said:
The reason is that XDA is traditionally a DEVELOPER forum. Not a CONSUMER forum.
Yes, the original purpose of XDA has expanded, however back in the day, this site was mostly focused on technical issues. Rather than asking a simple and probably already answered question, *everyone* searched and searched again to find an answer. And if that didn't work, it was preferably to PM someone a question over starting a whole thread titled: "X thing that I'm trying to do doesn't work. Please help me!!! Sorry I'm a n00b!!!"".
There are no "stupid" question per se (though really, some folks around here push that boundary to its absolute limit), but there are plenty of already answered questions floating around. Even the OP's question/comment has been addressed millions of times before around here. Experienced XDA users get annoyed when people ask those same questions over and over again. And even though everyone says "I searched but couldn't find an answer for X", usually that's not really true. They may have quickly tried a single search term in the Vbulletin search, then probably gave up. They almost certainly haven't read the official XDA rules, and certainly haven't tried creative ways of finding the answer they are looking for.
This IS A DEVELOPER COMMUNITY. If you can't be bothered to try more than a few minutes of searching, then you are lazy, and it's not really worth the time of others to respond. Hence the flaming, and the anger, and the people attacking n00bs for already-answered questions. This is not a "community support forum" for those people who just picked up a new device and what to "r00tz that ****z" so they can play pirated games and tether for free. This is a community for people to work together on technical aspects of our amazing devices, and squeeze every drop of power from the silicon/glass/plastic devices we all love so much. Yes, people are people, not everyone will search properly, and yes, the majority user-base of XDA has changed a lot over the past 3-4 years. That doesn't mean you can just do whatever you want and not follow the clearly posted XDA rules. And it doesn't mean you have the right to post threads of "OMFG I can't believe how mean all these people who donate their time for free to the community are". Get over it. If you want to idly chat and whine about this that and the other, there are plenty of other places on the internet to do that. XDA is not the place.
Originally, there was very little hostility around XDA over stupid or silly threads. This was because they were so rare, and were often honest mistakes. I don't want to read about your whining and complaining about people being mean. You're right, I *could* just skip over the thread and not say anything (which, undoubtedly, many folks are given the responses so far). But you posted it in the Galaxy S2 i777 General Forum. This thread has nothing to do with the i777 GS2. Whine elsewhere, or be flamed. That's the long and short of it.
Good luck and welcome to XDA!
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And it's the responses like this that go on this 'better than you' mentality trip that are starting to make it not as enjoyable. It's a crock of crap. XDA wouldn't be as big as it is had it stayed strictly a developer community. And the devs wouldn't get as many donations either. I do agree that there are some that abuse that 'New Thread' button. But in all honesty, the search feature on forums isn't that great. Also, some of the contributing members here didn't start out knowing what they're doing. They aquired that knowledge here. So instead of flaming, giving a [email protected] comment, or telling then how to fix it, why don't more people 'teach them to fish'. I may not know a ton about the SGSII, but I sure try to help anyone I can. I am, however, probably one of the most knowledge people on here when it comes to the automotive field. You can only imagine the crazy stuff people come up with to ask on the auto forums, but I've never just blew them off cause they couldn't find it using search. I've just found it and pointed them the right direction. And if the info isn't out there already, I try to explain to them the mechanics behind it to try to educate them a little more than they already are. I can't stand the ones that just spit out some action to try with no explination as to why to try this or that. At some point, that extra knowledge may come in handy and hopefully save that person some coin on getting their transportation back on the road. So having said that, why don't we all get a long and help each other out? I initialy came here looking for help, but I stuck around because of the great community. I'd hate to see people never come back because of a few people ruining the atmosphere of the community.
bigblue95z said:
And it's the responses like this that go on this 'better than you' mentality trip that are starting to make it not as enjoyable. It's a crock of crap. XDA wouldn't be as big as it is had it stayed strictly a developer community. And the devs wouldn't get as many donations either. I do agree that there are some that abuse that 'New Thread' button. But in all honesty, the search feature on forums isn't that great. Also, some of the contributing members here didn't start out knowing what they're doing. They aquired that knowledge here. So instead of flaming, giving a [email protected] comment, or telling then how to fix it, why don't more people 'teach them to fish'. I may not know a ton about the SGSII, but I sure try to help anyone I can. I am, however, probably one of the most knowledge people on here when it comes to the automotive field. You can only imagine the crazy stuff people come up with to ask on the auto forums, but I've never just blew them off cause they couldn't find it using search. I've just found it and pointed them the right direction. And if the info isn't out there already, I try to explain to them the mechanics behind it to try to educate them a little more than they already are. I can't stand the ones that just spit out some action to try with no explination as to why to try this or that. At some point, that extra knowledge may come in handy and hopefully save that person some coin on getting their transportation back on the road. So having said that, why don't we all get a long and help each other out? I initialy came here looking for help, but I stuck around because of the great community. I'd hate to see people never come back because of a few people ruining the atmosphere of the community.
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Uhh, most of the developers and users here couldn't care less how "big" XDA is. And second, as Entropy512 pointed out, most devs don't care tremendously about donations. Yea, when I really like something, or have some extra cash, I'll kick a developer a few extra bucks. But it's not really about donations or popularity. And I don't think a single Dev here is actually living off of the donations from XDA users...
And further... if you check my post history, you'd see I in fact do try to "teach people to fish" all the time. And more often than not, I'll just answer a n00b question rather than flame. And yes, the Forum search isn't the best, hence why a Google "site:xda-developers.com YourSearchTermHere" is a useful alternative.
XDA is not a n00b friendly forum. If you're a new user looking to learn about Android or phones or whatever for the first time... there are other places to do that. It's called "xda-DEVELOPERS" for a reason.
Devs have holier that thou attitudes. They act like they shouldn't be bothered by stupid nub questions. Yet they feel compelled to answer them and ***** about doing so...
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda premium
use the search function and this will not happen.
/thread
I know many may disagree. But I need to get this off of my chest. I get tired of people that don't want to help or or are just rude about giving advice. I thought forums were supposed to be a community of people that are here to help each other, not belittle them.
I understand that some questions are obvious and sometimes people don't do enough research before asking questions. But here is my opinion: if you don't want to give an answer other than the typical "do you know what Google is?" Or the ever present rude comments then keep it to yourself.
The whole idea of how a person can be rude on the internet without any sort of consequence because they are sitting behind a computer or a phone or what have you is disgusting to say the least.
The concept of being kind to each other is nearly gone in this world...
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2
im not one the many cause i agree with you on that..
Sent from my SHV-E160L using xda app-developers app
It has a lot to do with placing a tremendous amount of value in something that really doesn't mean anything all, one's ego. If some people got over themselves and spent the same amount of energy to help as they did to be snotty and cocky, this would be a much better community to learn together. Instead some would rather hold on to their knowledge as they think it elevates them. Get over yourself and contribute. This is a community, not a place of worship.
Thank you for taking the time to create this thread.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2
Also these ppl fail to realize is that even tho the question has already been answer it makes easier for noobies to find the answer without sifting through 500 pages.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using xda app-developers app
This doesn't belong here.
This section is for General topics concerning the device itself, there is an actual xda General section to post general topics concerning all of xda.
this is a development site first and foremost, not a help desk, you're perfectly ok to post your questions in the q&a section, and most roms should have an accompanying q&a thread so as not to have the same questions come up making reading the thread to see what DEVELOPMENTS have occurred get buried in a mess. If that were adhered to more it would go smoother.
Furthermore there has been a depressing shift in the user attitude as of late that is kinda burning us old timers out.
Instead of working with devs and getting a nice feedback, a vast majority is demanding and entitled.
Like the post a couple above me
...You know the answer just answer me, otherwise shut up...
Whereas it should be
"You've worked hard let me put forth a bit of effort so you can have some spare time"
TL;DR
you say they are rude for telling you to search.
Whereas you're being rude by not searching.
studacris said:
This doesn't belong here.
This section is for General topics concerning the device itself, there is an actual xda General section to post general topics concerning all of xda.
this is a development site first and foremost, not a help desk, you're perfectly ok to post your questions in the q&a section, and most roms should have an accompanying q&a thread so as not to have the same questions come up making reading the thread to see what DEVELOPMENTS have occurred get buried in a mess. If that were adhered to more it would go smoother.
Furthermore there has been a depressing shift in the user attitude as of late that is kinda burning us old timers out.
Instead of working with devs and getting a nice feedback, a vast majority is demanding and entitled.
Like the post above me
"You know the answer just answer me, otherwise shut up"
Whereas it should be
"You've worked hard let me put forth a bit of effort so you can have some spare time"
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Your point is understood and that is a side i did forget and my statement was more geared toward the one that actually need the help verse the pertinacious fellows that are out here being lazy i ment no offense with my statement
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using xda app-developers app
Ah, the old prickly problem of internet ego. I can say anything that I want because I sit behind this keyboard and am not face-to-face with the actual person. I love you!!, I hate you!! You are a genius. So stupid, smh. So easy to type these things. Very few have the cojones to say these things to someone's face. Hence the dawn of the e-peen.
Sorry to say that it is here to stay. I believe it first showed its head shortly after Al Gore invented the internet. In fact I think that his e-peen was the one that first broke through because, well he invented it.
When I first came to XDA, I knew very little about Android. I knew what Root was and that was about it. So I read and read a bit more. The phone I had was released and abandoned on Éclair (no app2sd), a locked bootloader (wtf was a bootloader) and only had 256 RAM and 512 ROM. Not a lot of space. So we had to repartition our extSD card to create a partition to where the apps could install. That meant learning how to partition/format an SD card, learning the scripts to run it and then the actual install with terminal. It took time. Fortunately there was a few people in that forum that helped as much as they could. No one was spoonfeeding but rather spurring a possible future dev. Plus they we just being nice.
Fast forward 2+years. Android has gone from a niche market (Donut/Éclair) to a superpower in the market (GB/ICS/JB). Everyone knows someone who has an Android. Before this boom, it was all about Nokia, HTC and Blackberry, none of which used Android as a platform.
With fame come the masses. Like I said above, everyone knows someone with an Android device. Teenagers, business people, grandparents,...heck I've taught my two young sons how to root their Nook Colors and they are in K & 1st grade. Guess what site is almost alwasy at the top of any Android Google search? ---> XDA-Developers.
The best thing that I can tell you is that if you can help, then please do in one of two short posts. Anything beyond that, then they need to do more research and reading. It doesn't cost anything to answer, but if someone responds with a snarky remark and then it escalates, well that could cost you your privileges of being able to post here via infractions and bans for flaming. No one wants that. Steer the questions to the Q&A section and out of the Dev section(s). The Q&A sections is a "dumping ground" so to say. It was created to relieve the non-development posts in dev threads. It works, if use correctly.
Searching is Rule #1 but there is also Rule #2 about being Courteous and Flaming. Just because they are #2 doesn't make them any less important.
tl;dr Answer if you can in 1 or 2 posts. If not, then direct to Q&A. No flames but try to be nice about how you respond.
Didn't mean for this to be so long but I see this thread at least 10 times a week.
Thread Closed
Oooh wait, I forgot something. One way that you can help people that are actually using the Search function is to put thread tags at the bottom of the threads. That way when someone searches, maybe that thread or issue will pop up. I just checked the Dev section (not OrgDev) and in the top 10 threads in there, not a single one has any Tags in it. Could be useful to put some in there, don't you think? Fixed a problem with GPS, then put a tag in there like "GPS fix on pg 152". BT now works, put a tag in there that "BT is working on this ROM".
Al Gore didn't invented the internet? And Woody Sir...I love You!:silly::silly: