Hi all
first off let me just commend EVERYONE on xda-devs for the work they have put in to make this such a great site/resource/info store
I've been using xda-devs ever since i got my very first htc voyager device, then onto various other smartphones and then i discovered the wonderful world of ppc, way back with himalaya, through to magician/charmer/prophet/wizard/hermes and now of course, RAPHAEL!!!
if you've gotten this far then i thank you for listening to me rambling on
my request is simple:
Is it possible to add a poll to each of the threads for the roms with simple 'criteria' like:
Is this rom FAST
Is this rom STABLE
Good rom?
not so good rom?
simply because, i am hoping this will help avoid some of the most common 'what rom shall i flash' question and also it will give some sort of pointer as to some of the main points of the rom
its just a suggestion, i'd love to know what you all think of it and if it ever comes to fruition!
many thanks to all at RAPHAEL!
My Opinion: No
All the 4 points you mention are subjective...
The only way to find out is to try it yourself, and if that means flashing different rom's
and restoring your favourite programs, use UC or put them together in a directory on your sd card.
You can always get an idea by scrolling trough a thread, that's what I do with 30 messages on a page
Each ROM is very different, and a poll wouldn't work. Just the poll in the radio flashing thread, it doesn't really mean a lot as it's all dependant.
It's worth spending the time and flashing as many ROMs as it takes to get the one you want. I've flashed over 15 ROMs trying to find one I like...
Not only is it subjective, it is quite frankly dumb (if you'll pardon the term)
Every chef endeavors to produce a quality ROM, if bugs appear, they are usually fixed fairly quickly with an updated version (hopefully). Every ROM is a work in progress and the only time the Chef finish it, is when he becomes tired of attempting to improve it.
The best you could ask for is a poll in a separate thread that asks for what ROM you are running and if they follow up post with what they like and don't like about it. However, you will find Flashing Junkies here that will often flash a new ROM weekly if not more often... There would need to be a new poll every week/month and who has that much time.
Having recently purchased a Fuze myself, let me tell you what I did here as a complete newbie:
Sized up the available ROMs and prominent chefs using the wiki and this forum.
Scanned through threads here to figure out who was doing what.
Looked up the various chefs to see what else they've done here at XDA
Made my decision.
As a chef myself, I can say that everything is subjective. There really is no simple way to find the best ROM. The good news is that I found what I was looking for in a single evening.
I think its a descent idea if the Chefs put each new ROM Version in a new thread. If someone releases version 1.0 and it is buggy they may get a bad poll rating. Then by version 2.0 it may be the best ROM ever, but due to all the early bad ratings it would make their overall "score" low.
Anyways this isn't a competition. If we start ranking and voting on the best ROM, it would make other ROM makers give up. People would say ROM-ABC and ROM-123 are the 2 best ROMS and no one can top them. Then all the other Chef's give up and we only have 2 ROM choices. Then these 2 ROM Makers have no competition so their work gets stagnant and they only release new ROMs ever 6 months. Then before you know it we are living in the world of Microsoft and Apple.
Know the Basics
Without knowing what you are getting yourself into will only make things worse even before you start off. To build a good Rom is different and to atleast build a fully functional Rom is different. So make sure you are fully aware of the technical fundamentals of building a Rom to enough extent so that you are able to fix the bugs and know what and where can things go wrong and how to solve them.
Performance, Memory, Stability and Battery
These are the four defining points which decide the pros and cons of the Rom that you develop. The Rom should be Fast, Have enough storage and program memory, should be stable and have a good battery backup. Trying to get a good balance of all these is very important. So make sure you keep all these things in mind while developing your Rom.
Be Patient and Polite
Building a good/perfect or bug free Rom wont come immediately. It’ll take many releases, experiments, testing and knowledge till you reach a nearly perfect Rom. So be patient as it sometimes takes weeks or sometimes months. Dealing with the public is not an easy job. You’ll find all sort of people of various characters. The can be nice as well as rude, but do remember that their critics are the only way you can improve. All they want from you is a good Rom, just keep this in mind and ignore the negatives.
Make it User Friendly
There are many ways in which you can make your Rom user friendly. Integrating useful apps. Prepping Eye candy themes, Important shortcuts etc.
Stay Motivated
This is the only driving force behind every Rom developer to continue doing their work with ease and success. Stay motivated and alert so that you can deliver the best with every release. Its hard sometimes but its it important.
Give Time to your Work
Most of the developers are either students or work some where and building Roms is some what like a hobby for us. Its correct that we are not supposed to spend all the time on building Roms but if we want to have a good working Rom we should manage considerable amount of time for few alternate days to work on this project.
Make it Different
You Rom characteristics should be some what different from what is already been provided by other developers. If its nothing different and Catchy then it’ll be hard to get users trying your Rom consistently. I still remember the days when i used to try alot of different Roms but still couldn’t find one that was nearly perfecting my needs. I tried alot of Roms that time.
Join Hands with another Developer
This is what i like the most. Join hands and team up with other developers and thus improve the efficiency and effectiveness of your Rom. The mind of two can bring together wonders. You can even team up with Developers of other devices and build a Rom for device that you personally do not own but you you widen your work area.
Don’t be ignorant
Make sure you are attentive and up to date with all what is discussed about your Rom, all bugs, all tests, reports, etc. so that you do not miss out on any bug possibly to be fixed for next release. If you ignore or avoid fixing the important bugs, the users will think that you are not really capable of solving them or not really interested in this Rom.
Get Testers
Testers are users who like to test the Rom and report you the bugs before you go public with the release. They are very helpful if you like to avoid the criticism after the release of the Rom as before itself you’ll be able to get rid of maximum number of Bugs and issues present in the Rom. That is where testers come in handy. Jus give a notice and many would love to try and test your Beta releases.
Keep Detailed Changelogs
Changelogs keep track of your developments over the time. They come in handy when ever you need to check for prolonged bugs. For example you may not notice it but if someone reports that he has been having an issue since your 3rd Rom release, then you can check out what all changes you made on that release and cross check whether one of those changes cause that bug.
Be Active on the Rom Page
This is the most important part of being interactive with the users cause there is alot that they want to be done in your Rom. Talk to them, answer their questions and discuss the pros and cons of the Roms with them. You can learn alot from them. Being active to the discussion will make them feel that you are eager to further develop and make this Rom improve further.
Add only Useful apps and Regularly Update them
Make sure the application you add to your Rom are useful by the people. Adding two Music Players in the Rom is not a good choice. Choose one that is best and use that only. But make sure you add one possibly best Application for all needs of the users. Keep track of all the applications that you have included in your Rom and make sure the latest versions are included. It keep the user feel updated with your Rom. Many times there are applications which are important to add but have some bug. Later these bugs are fixed in their next releases, so even you should add those updated fixed Applications. Use only Genuine Licenses and No Warez Applications. Warez is like a virus to the development of your Rom. Copyright issues and illegal use of cracked applications make pose a ban on you Roms by the Blogs and threads where you list them. Either you use development licenses to use the in your Roms or use an equally good free Application.
Good looking User Interface and Graphics
This is the major aspect that defines your Rom and makes it distinct from others. Work on that graphics that can be changed in your Rom, try different themes and skin enhancements in different aspects of os like dialer, lockscreen, fonts etc.
Keep Polls and ask Questions
Polls and asking questions from users is a very important way by which you can interact with users and get their feedback. Polls can be asking them about their preferences. Which applications they like or dislike, asking frequents questions on that changes you will be making in the Rom cause at the end of the day it is them who will be using them.
Learn from Competition
I don’t call the fellow developers a competition and usually many share their work and are supportive like i am to each other’s work. But you can learn from what is included in their Rom and if its catchy and important then you can add it to your Rom aswel. There might be many new and useful applications and features that other developers might be using and you are not even aware of that. It can be very helpful in evolving your Rom completely.
Listen and Learn from Users
Listening what a user has to say about their experiences on using your Rom is very important. They might have something very important to share from their experiences which you can incorporate in your Rom. It really helps in fixing bugs and improving your Rom further.
In the end you are the Decision Maker
Its you who has to take the decisions in the end. There will be many people wanting you to do this or that and add this or remove that but in the end you have to keep an unbiased judgment on all the requests, ideas and suggestions and bring forward the changes that you feel the masses are going to appreciate. And for that you will need to take care of all the above mentioned points in mind.
Give Credits
Not to forget that 70%-80% of your work is inspired from that of other developers. And it wonk charge you anything to be humbly give credit or some appreciation to the help you have got from other developers in terms of guides, tips, tricks, applications, UI Enhancements, etc. It just shows your character as a person as well.
Well, there are only two kernel developers here in the P500 forum, franco and fserve. There is no doubt that the work both of you have done is off the charts, tweaking every little thing that can be tweaked to such an extent that there hardly is anything left to tweak. And there is no doubt that most, if not all, of the people using your kernels love the work you guys put out.
With that in mind, however, there are a couple of things (specifically bugs) that we request, not demand, to be fixed. As we all know, our phone is affected by two things that I, as well as many other users, believe are two major bugs: the cpu spiking to 100% when touching the screen and the axis inversion bugs. Even with both of your kernels as good as they are now, these bugs hinder their true capability, thus hindering the phone's true capability. Both of you might just be thinking, "Well, there is paolo's kernel, go use that." And as kernel developers, you have every right to think that and decline this request. But seeing how good both of your kernels are, why not make it better?
Please consider this, as many of us believe both of your kernels can be made better with these bugfixes.
The poll is there as an estimate and measure of how many users believe that these bugfixes will make your kernels better.
sweetnsour said:
Well, there are only two kernel developers here in the P500 forum, franco and fserve. There is no doubt that the work both of you have done is off the charts, tweaking every little thing that can be tweaked to such an extent that there hardly is anything left to tweak. And there is no doubt that most, if not all, of the people using your kernels love the work you guys put out.
With that in mind, however, there are a couple of things (specifically bugs) that we request, not demand, to be fixed. As we all know, our phone is affected by two things that I, as well as many other users, believe are two big bugs: the cpu spiking to 100% when touching the screen and the axis inversion bugs. Even with both of your kernels as good as they are now, these bugs hinder their true capability. Both of you might just be thinking, "Well, there is paolo's kernel, go use that." And as kernel developers, you have every right to think that and decline this request. But seeing how good both of your kernels are, why not make it better?
Please consider this, as many of us believe both of your kernels can be made better with these bugfixes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed
PES2012 is hard to play with the lags but suprisingly Pes2011 does not have lag...I read once that Sippolo said its a 2 minute fix for the cpu spike bug
i think its ok to fix bugs even when most users can profit.
but, what about users who have new/other phones now?
i know from franco he's not developing on .35 currently because he has a new phone
and the P500 is used by his father - no way to develop on every day. the next reason is as we
all know, the P500 is a nice device for android beginners but most of us have seen
the new things like Nexus S, Galaxy S-2, HTC devices or other high end phones. I'm sorry
to say that but the P500 is some old and almost used in countries where such high end
devices cant be payed for, or, in most cases too - most users who bought this device
are very young (when i think how old i'm) - and, good developers have a real job to get
enough money for high end devices ... so, these developers cant support such low budget
devices all the time.
For me this means, i'm developing on P500 because its most funny for me to see all these
**** LG hardware bugs, but decided too that there is no way to develop on P500 the next year
too, so the next phoenix-android gingerbread will be the last release for the P500 device too.
I dont know what mik_os is doing, i think he has a real job too and no time to develop all
the time for this device ...
But, ok, these words sounds very sad for most users - i think, there are other ways or users
who take the developers work and can support such devices for a few months. for me it
doesnt matter if users are coming to me and asking how they can develop on my code.
Android should be open source, that means for me there is a community who want to develop
on - and not everybody is a real developer but can learn something, and that can only be reached
with help and understanding each other. Everybody can say "I want Gingerbread on my phone, i want
ICS on my phone, i want a hell kernel on my phone" - but these work cant be developed by google,
its the task for the community, so lets start here and now and stop crying for franco, fserve, mik or
others! Learn to help your self! Be a part of a real community!
I understand what you are trying to say andy, and after reading your post, i must say that i have to agree with you.
As much as I want to start developing myself, I have no idea where to begin. Just a question, which language must I learn to start android development? (is it java or c++? ive seen both languages mentioned but i do not know which one. is there one specific for roms and one specific for kernels? because i think i might give kernel development a try once i learn the appropriate language)
sweetnsour said:
Ah, this thread was short-lived
I understand what you are trying to say andy, and after reading your post, i must say that i have to agree with you.
As much as I want to start developing myself, I have no idea where to begin. Just a question, which language must I learn to start android development? (is it java or c++? ive seen both languages mentioned but i do not know which one. is there one specific for roms and one specific for kernels? because i think i might give kernel development a try once i learn the appropriate language)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Developing on android doesnt mean you have to write code by yourself all the time.
Sure, its good to know about C/C++, Java, Shell scripting, makefile reading/writing and other things
but in most time we can copy or integrate existing patches. So, you only know about the bug and
where to fix it with what programming language. For the first time, search for the bug on google
and/or github - with some luck users can find a fix that needs only to copied in the local code.
To start developing on android, its a good choice to understand in details how android is working
and even a good thing is to know about Linux. On windows, you cant develop on Android OS so
you need at least a small Ubuntu/Linux Mint/RedHat or SuSE system with compilers and Java installed.
The next required knowledge is to know how Android is interacting with files:
What is Java for, what is C/C++ for, how Android is booting and what are JNI libraries.
We can open a thread so we can explain something or users can ask for specific things there.
andy572 said:
Developing on android doesnt mean you have to write code by yourself all the time.
Sure, its good to know about C/C++, Java, Shell scripting, makefile reading/writing and other things
but in most time we can copy or integrate existing patches. So, you only know about the bug and
where to fix it with what programming language. For the first time, search for the bug on google
and/or github - with some luck users can find a fix that needs only to copied in the local code.
To start developing on android, its a good choice to understand in details how android is working
and even a good thing is to know about Linux. On windows, you cant develop on Android OS so
you need at least a small Ubuntu/Linux Mint/RedHat or SuSE system with compilers and Java installed.
The next required knowledge is to know how Android is interacting with files:
What is Java for, what is C/C++ for, how Android is booting and what are JNI libraries.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the info! I will keep this in mind.
andy572 said:
We can open a thread so we can explain something or users can ask for specific things there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
good idea (this sounds like sticky material)! would you like to open it? it would not make sense for me to open it since I'm not a developer
First of all i would like to thank andy, mik_os, franciscofranco, fserve, ciaox,knzo, docotornotor and many others who i may have forgotten for their impeccable work towards this community and for working their asses off. You'll are invaluable assets to the community and i could'nt imagine using my phone without you'll.
Reading andy's post i must have to agree with him because you devs have worked so hard towards our phone even though many of you''ll don't own one. Also you bared with the many spams, useless comments on your threads without saying a word. Also many of you have jobs in RL for which you have to work hard, and developing for a phone which you don't even own/primitive phone would seem to you as a waste of time and i can thoroughly understand that. Even though i dunno scat about developing, i do know that it is highly time consuming and resource oriented.
So as you'll probably know that the 2 most irritating bugs on our phone are the touchscreen driver lags, and the axis inversion bugs. Me, as well as thousands of p500 users can't thank franciscofranco and fserve for their dedicated work towards our phone and for developing two awesome kernels which made our p500 superfast. Any p500 user could match his phone's performance to our higher end phones and show its capablities off even though it being a low-ish end phone. I think i am speaking for the thousands of p500 owners all around the world and i would like to take this opportunity to request you kernel developers to fix these bugs and include them in your fanstastic kernels. India itself has the largest number of p500 owners all around the world and this phone is still popular as of today and if you'll didn;t know it is THE BEST SELLING SMARTPHONE phone in India. Therfore tons of us users would love if u fixed these two final bugs as they in my opinion are the biggest performance drainers all credits to ******y LG developers. As sweetnsour said, you devs have every right to decline this request as there is already the paulos kernel and plus you devs have worked your asses off to tweak our phones to its fullest extent and i don't think there may be any more tweaking left to do
However i do believe you devs collaborate in this one final project. Me, as well as every member of this community can't thank you enough for your hard work! We also have many talented devs [ciaox is 13 wtf? ] who can continue development of this phone. Looking at the dev section, many new roms have come up since mik's cm7 port and each rom outperforms the other[no disrespect to mik_os, he started the cm7 era!].
I hope fserve and franciscofranco take this post in regard and work towards fixing these bugs !
Thank you.
ps. sorry for my bad english.
@ andy572
Open ur own website and tell us more! I wanna build my own ROMs but i kinda fail it... With ur small free time? Can u exxplain?? It would be grateful to others!
Sent from my Nexus One using Tapatalk
Uhm... Fserve has already patched his Goldenleaf Kernel with Der_Caveman + Waleedq + Sippolo's workaround to fix axes inversion and cpu spikes.
The related Fserve's kernels are Goldenleaf 111107 and 111108 (I prefer this one). Cheers!
if u didnt know, axis inversion is not possible to fix 100% because it is a hardware issue.........
there is only little you can do about it in the coding part
Yes, I know it's an hardware problem, however a workaround is better than nothing!
Sent from my LG-P500 using XDA App
for me it
doesnt matter if users are coming to me and asking how they can develop on my code.
Android should be open source, that means for me there is a community who want to develop
on - and not everybody is a real developer but can learn something, and that can only be reached
with help and understanding each other. Everybody can say "I want Gingerbread on my phone, i want
ICS on my phone, i want a hell kernel on my phone" - but these work cant be developed by google,
its the task for the community, so lets start here and now and stop crying for franco, fserve, mik or
others! Learn to help your self! Be a part of a real community!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well said~
fserve's goldenleaf has added Sippolo's workaround
For me as a user, i would say THANK YOU to you guys for bringing this community alive. Thank you for your hardwork and effort that you put in. I would say that my p500 runs fastest than galaxy s stock 2.3.3. Im not joking as my phone is smooth thanks to you guys. no bugs for most of the roms i tested. I may not be a dev but i understand a lil bit. So once again thank you guys
Sent from my LG-P500 using XDA App
I agree with most of what Andy said, except the part that our phone is obsolete.
I'm not a dev but I found plenty of tutorials available that explained how to successfully compile a kernel from source and extract a .config from an existing kernel. I never found a perfect how to but by meshing various methods together I was eventually successful. After reading francos github commits I discovered the toolchain he was using which was the final ingredient.
From there I used a diff tool to compare franco and Paulos sources, this is how I found the camera flicker fix. When I saw big differences in the source I googled it and/or copied it over then compiled and tested it. It took about 5 tries before I found the flicker fix. This learning process took more than just a couple of hours, it was frustrating but eventually rewarding. I still don't know anything about C or Java, so Andy is right, read/research, copy/paste, trial and error actually works.
Considering that Paulos kernel has resolved these issues and franco hasn't means you should be able to use the same technique. These bugs seem to affect gaming the most, which I don't do, so I haven't had the motivation to look into it.
franco and fserve are more than willing to include fixes. fserve posted a test kernel that included my find within a day. Within a week franco had released a new version that included it.
Open a discussion thread, I think it's a great idea! This is a developers forum after all. Thousands of noobs should be able to combine their efforts to fix these issues. Let's make it happen instead of waiting for it to happen.
Thank You !!!
Suggestion : Why dont Fserve or Franco use and edit Paulo's V6 Kernel'?
is it possible'?
OT.. .
Mistakes are the PORTALS of DISCOVERY .. .
so Cmon.. . Lets commit mistakes
Why don't ask them yourself?
Btw: PaoloM70's 2.6.35.14 V6 Kernel source:
http://www.multiupload.com/18Y712HS9G
so there is no multitouch bug and screen touch lag in paolao kernel?
@sweetnsour . I feel like Ciao X would be a good person to ask about this one. He is young so I feel will continue to work on our p500. I could be wrong. But I also think you could learn much about your goal( which by the way I think it's WONDERFUL you want to learn to develope ) I KNOW I'm not cut out for it, and so I can be honest while I am no actually HELP to this community when it comes to developing. I AM. A HUGE fan, supporter and appreciate of all the passion and art and great works that come out of this wonderful community!!! Anyway, I digress CIAO CAN YOU WEIGH IN ON THIS???
Optimus T
OpenOptimus (froyo)
latest franco kernal
748/480
Interactive X
Jonny Green
"im not a Dev but I flash alot"
TL;DR
If you want to help me, post on MY thread about my kernel bugs. --REALLY--
(or dev something, lol)
(or donate me, i really love that )
FOR NOW, i need people to tell me which is the WORST game to play on p500 using gbs v19 kernel, AND it need to be free (or not if you give me the money).
So i can test this touchscreen bug.
Please, post, on my thread for .32 kernels and on franco thread for .35 kernel.
Thanks
fserve said:
TL;DR
If you want to help me, post on MY thread about my kernel bugs. --REALLY--
(or dev something, lol)
(or donate me, i really love that )
FOR NOW, i need people to tell me which is the WORST game to play on p500 using gbs v19 kernel, AND it need to be free (or not if you give me the money).
So i can test this touchscreen bug.
Please, post, on my thread for .32 kernels and on franco thread for .35 kernel.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for weighing in! There are two apps you can try using:
For a game, try playing glow hockey (use the two player mode). When your fingers cross, you will be controlling the opposite puck.
To see what is really going on, check out the app "multitouch vis test". You will see the bug when you cross your finger either horizontally or vertically.
Sent from my LG-P509 using xda premium
EDIT: I was talking about the axis inversion bug, not the CPU lag bug. Not sure what the worst free game for that would be, but neocore would be good for testing this bug.
First, I am not asking "What is or will be the best ROM for me" because I know the answer already (read, test drive, and choose for yourself).
My question is more: If you've come here from having one or more similar devices (like, say, the SG2), what were the more popular everyday ROMs or developers that you expect to be appearing here in the coming month(s)?
For example, if this were a HTCDesireIII forum, I'd be able to answer the question briefly
on the original Desire it seemed like the vast majority were using CM, Oxygen, LeeDroid, Gingervillain, or MIUI
or a bit longer
on the original Desire, according to a couple polls and my general impression from reading posts and sig-files, it seemed about 75% of the people were using CM (because it's CM), Oxygen (for the lack of bloat), MIUI (for the interface), Lee or Villain (for whatever their unique selling points) and the others never really took off in popularity for whatever reason (bugs, lack of updates, niche-interest).
I'm not averse to reading and test-driving, but I'd like to limit it to a few time-tested names first. So what are the names (ROMs or devs) to watch for based on the past?
I was expecting CheckROM EvoHD and now it's available! Best ROM I tried in SGSII and so far in SGSIII, WanamLite is pretty good also.
We have a problem: there are a ridiculous number of ROMs available, spanning 6 different versions of Android, each with their own pros and cons. There are so many choices that I imagine it must be completely overwhelming to someone who is new to custom ROMs, coming here to try to breathe life back into their device. (I find it overwhelming and I've been on XDA since 2007.)
So, I'm asking those of you who have tried and tested the many ROMs available for the Xperia Ray to please share the wisdom of your experience for the benefit of all.
This isn't a "what ROM is best" thread, because I know that specific ROMs fit specific purposes, i.e. if you absolutely want the latest Android features, you want a Kitkat ROM (perhaps at the expensive of speed). The idea is more to give people a place to start looking, i.e. if they know they need FM radio they should rule out any ROM based on Android 4.1+, and some recommendations given specific needs. If you recommend specific ROMs, please try to mention at least 2 different ones (and if you're the author, please disclose that so we know you're plugging your own ROM).
To spark your thoughts, consider your answers to any of the following questions. If we get enough people answering, I'll edit this post to add in general consensus answers to have a quick guide in place for other users looking for a new ROM.
Q: What Android versions provide full functionality of stock hardware, i.e. FM radio, 720p video recording.
- My understanding is that for FM radio to work, you need to be on Gingerbread or ICS. (Not sure on 720p video.)
Q: What Android versions or specific ROMs are the fastest (as in quickly responsive UI)?
- My impression (from thread comments) is that Gingerbread is still the fastest, but suffers in terms of battery life.
Q: What Android versions generally have the best battery life?
Q: What Android versions or specific ROMs offer the best performance for gaming only?
Q: What ROMs offer the best combination of speed, stability and battery life for day-to-day use?
- For example, if you're giving the phone to your girlfriend, you can't go wrong with <insert recommendation> or <insert recommendation>.
If you can think of other questions to help people with their decision-making, feel free to mention them and I'll add them to the list.
These kind of questions aren't allowed on XDA, you'll just have to test them out like everyone else does. Just because I feel a certain ROM is better than another doesn't mean everyone else will agree.
As you said "it is not a best ROM thread" but the with the points you included the discussion will eventually reflect the same as being "Best ROM" according to someones' preference. And even If I keep this thread open suggesting all the users just to share their opinion it won't go good as it would expected considering the past history regarding the matter. So, I will close this thread to avoid any kind of anarchy and also to keep you out of the trouble in future, thanks for understanding..