I notice that there's a warning message when the phone is fully charged, advising you to disconnect the charger. I usually leave my phone charging every night, meaning that it's still connected to the charger for hours after it's fully charged. I'm pretty sure that the S2 has "smart" charging, but would the overnight charging damage the battery by exposing it to unnecessary heat for this extended period?
No it shouldn't. Like you said the phone has the ability to shut off the charge when the battery reaches 100%.
I've been charging mine all night for most nights out of the past 3-4 months and it's fine.
That warning is essentially Samsung's attempt to give you a green consciousness, since leaving the charger connected to the wall draws a trickle of current. Sammy figures that millions of people following those instructions to the letter will help save the planet.
It will reduce your batteries life, leaving it on the charger. Will it does stop charging it then drains to 99% then tops it up, which over time uses up the recharge cycles and will reduce the time until it can't hold a charge.
Lithium ion battery doesn't have recharge cycle.
jzmtl said:
Lithium ion battery doesn't have recharge cycle.
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Exactly. This was true until Litium Ion batteries came the norm in handsets.
Nowadays its just to be seen as being 'green'
That is strange since this site devoted to teaching about batteries makes it seem like they do. But also reading it says that being at a constant full charge is more damaging then cycling the battery.
That is in the second paragraph under the "Depth of discharge" chart on this site
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
With the frequency cellphone batteries are charge/discharged, they crap out after two years anyway, and unlike some other fruity product it takes us 10 seconds to plop in a new one, so don't worry about it.
Even if it damaged your battery the effect wouldn't come noticeable before a long time I think. And in case the battery does get damaged, you can always replace it, that's one of the nice things about this phone, if you compare it for example to an iphone.
tomascunill said:
...And in case the battery does get damaged, you can always replace it, that's one of the nice things about this phone, if you compare it for example to an iphone.
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exactly why i didn't buy an iphone
The only things really damaging your battery are:
- excessive heat
- heavy use while charging
- turning on the phone over and over after it turned itself off on it's own due to low battery
there are more, for sure, but just to name a few.
I always charge my phones over night and my HD2's battery is as good as ever after 2 years. My SGS2's battery is still the same, and I still thing that when the battery is full there are no discharge/recharge cycles but something like a suspend mode in the charger.
Related
Hello everyone,
Getting my G2 tomorrow ad was wondering what's best to do for the initial charge ?
What did you all do and how do you find your battery because of it ?
Cheers James
hi there mate
I did a 3-4 hour charge until the battery was fully charged...the orange led charge thing goes green and its fine then
right now im managing to get a day with heavy use, which is good
Thanks immya
Any other advice please ?
I atcually do the same. But i repeat the process of fully charge and discharge the phone completly about 2-3 times. So the battery gets well trained. I repeat ist about every 2 months. I know it should not be relevant with those new batteries, but i found out it is, and the battery last longer.
jut my 2 cents
Cheers,
Chaos42
it's 2009, just charge it and use it.
when i got mine the battery was ~1/3 full, i charged it till ~2/3, then had to leave and completed the initial charge like two hours later, all works fine, getting somewhat between 4 hours and 3 days of usage.
chaos42 said:
I atcually do the same. But i repeat the process of fully charge and discharge the phone completly about 2-3 times. So the battery gets well trained. I repeat ist about every 2 months. I know it should not be relevant with those new batteries, but i found out it is, and the battery last longer.
jut my 2 cents
Cheers,
Chaos42
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Hey chaos42
What do you mean should not be relevent with the new batteries ?
Is there some sort of new batteries with the newer phones ?
Thanks
James
no, what i meant was what immya just said. that with the modern Li-Ion batteries you should not worry to much about how and when to charge. I just wanted to add that even it is 2009 i observed a far better battery lifecycle and stamina when you try to take care of your batterie. and charge it as decribed. that's my experience. at least for the initial 2-3 charges.
cheers,
chaos42
not that i am trying to discredit you here (in fact i would be very interested in such numbers myself), but did you do any tests or comparable setups to check the difference? because if we are talking about "a feeling" that you have this is IMHO not really relevant data. i would like to see two identical phones in a (at least) similar environment, performing the same tasks the same amount of time a day, and with that getting different runtimes on the battery for a period of a few weeks. these two phones don't need to be heros necessarily, as long as they have the same type of battery and can produce comparable results, but as long as this doesn't happen i myself rely on the tone on li-ion batterys in general. which is (and i am not able to quote or prove this): they are robust in terms of regular charging, and worrying about wearing the batterys in or training them isn't worth the effort. again no discredit here, but as long as no comparison has taken place there is effectively no data to analyze... just too much variables.
jameslfc5 said:
Hey chaos42
What do you mean should not be relevent with the new batteries ?
Is there some sort of new batteries with the newer phones ?
Thanks
James
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NiCad batteries work best when fully discharged before re-charging otherwise you get what is called the memory effect. If you are in the habit of topping up before being fully discharged the better 'remembers' how much you let it drain before charging it and then get's the idea somehow that this is what its capacity is and goes flat at the point that it 'expects' to be recharged.
NiMH batteries are much less prone to memory effect. They are the ones that need the 16 hour first charge then subsequent charges are shorter.
Li-Ion - lithium to its friends - are not supposed to suffer any memory effect at all. You are supposed to be able to top up as and when you want without any detrimental effects.
None of the above batteries will last forever and will need replacing after 2 or 3 years of daily use.
TheBrit said:
NiCad batteries work best when fully discharged before re-charging otherwise you get what is called the memory effect. If you are in the habit of topping up before being fully discharged the better 'remembers' how much you let it drain before charging it and then get's the idea somehow that this is what its capacity is and goes flat at the point that it 'expects' to be recharged.
NiMH batteries are much less prone to memory effect. They are the ones that need the 16 hour first charge then subsequent charges are shorter.
Li-Ion - lithium to its friends - are not supposed to suffer any memory effect at all. You are supposed to be able to top up as and when you want without any detrimental effects.
None of the above batteries will last forever and will need replacing after 2 or 3 years of daily use.
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Absolutely spot on!
These days batteries do not require dishcharging fully before recharging. Even if the person in the phone shop says "ensure you charge it for 12-14 hours before you use it", this doesn't matter - once the battery is fully charged, it stops charging itself anyway - even if you leave it plugged into a charger!
Same as what's being said already.
To add, it's even better to keep your lithium battery topped. Fully discharging them is actually bad for a lithium battery. Full discharge and heat is what's bad for a lithium battery.
For a nice reference, check this: http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/lithium-ion-battery.htm
(the life and death part is what might interest you)
On a more interesting note. A long long time ago I got a MDA Compact aka Qtek s100. And there was a lot of debate here on the forums about the initial charge. In the manual it was stated that you should charge it for like 12 hours or something the first time. Then people obviously also said that was bull, because it had a lithium battery.
But! As for WM2003 it didn't save it's whole registry etc on the ROM but in the RAM. Once the battery was dead, bang! hard reset right there.
So they included a little NiMH battery in the s100 that would keep the RAM 'alive'. And that was the reason it needed such a long first charge, for the NiMH cell.
And for some reason a lot of manufacturers take an 'old' manual text for the first charge of a battery. Although that doesn't happen that often anymore. Especially in the beginning a lot of instructions of how to use a lithium battery were just plain wrong. And they put NiMH or even NiCad instruction in there!
Edit, some instructions as found here (http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm). Talks about laptops, but it's the same nonetheless.
Avoid frequent full discharges because this puts additional strain on the battery. Several partial discharges with frequent recharges are better for lithium-ion than one deep one. Recharging a partially charged lithium-ion does not cause harm because there is no memory. (In this respect, lithium-ion differs from nickel-based batteries.) Short battery life in a laptop is mainly cause by heat rather than charge / discharge patterns.
Batteries with fuel gauge (laptops) should be calibrated by applying a deliberate full discharge once every 30 charges. Running the pack down in the equipment does this. If ignored, the fuel gauge will become increasingly less accurate and in some cases cut off the device prematurely.
Keep the lithium-ion battery cool. Avoid a hot car. For prolonged storage, keep the battery at a 40% charge level.
Consider removing the battery from a laptop when running on fixed power. (Some laptop manufacturers are concerned about dust and moisture accumulating inside the battery casing.)
Avoid purchasing spare lithium-ion batteries for later use. Observe manufacturing dates. Do not buy old stock, even if sold at clearance prices.
If you have a spare lithium-ion battery, use one to the fullest and keep the other cool by placing it in the refrigerator. Do not freeze the battery. For best results, store the battery at 40% state-of-charge.
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Getting my replacement today and my current phone has suffered from bad battery, so what is the best way to charge the new one please?
Thanks
I charge mine overnight most nights, and it gets better over time. It took a couple of weeks before I started to get really good life out of it.
Based on what I've read, you should charge for at least 3hrs and then drain it completely.
But I'm pretty sure you can still use it right out of the box
I don't think any extra/time specific charging is needed for Lithium batteries for the first charge. Just unplug it when charging completes. But if you calibrate the battery make sure you fully drain it before recharging it.
Regards.
It doesn't matter, there is no need to bother about how to charge modern li-io batteries.
I don't think modern batteries need any kind of special first charge routine....................but I still do it anyway
WastedJoker said:
I don't think modern batteries need any kind of special first charge routine....................but I still do it anyway
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Just read about this earlier on my local samsung officially site and yes ever since it is lithium battery its ok to charge anytime afor how long even it already 100% and still on the charging mode ots automatically cut off the power supply inside. But i do still charge like 4-6hours for the 1st time
sent from my 2.3.3|dxjpe DJGTabs7
Just charge it to full, and then start using it, charging it overnight does nothing, the BMS will stop it from charging when the voltage coming from the battery is considered 100%.
Lithium batteries do not suffer memory effect like Nickel batteries.
The old charging practices cause more damage.
Lithium batteries should not be overcharged (Same as NiMh)
Lithium batteries prefer to be fully charged. If they stay on empty too long, they get damaged. Using the charge up before charging the battery can damage it, the optimal is to charge it before it gets low. Regardless how well you keep them, they have a predetermined life span, so they will stop working after a few years.
Thanks everyone I am going to charge it for about 6 hours, then calibrate then fully discharge and fully charge, Until o2 unlock it :'(
jameslfc5 said:
Thanks everyone I am going to charge it for about 6 hours, then calibrate then fully discharge and fully charge, Until o2 unlock it :'(
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Completely pointless....once it reaches 100% it stops charging.
Someone pointed out the same thing you all said i.e.modern li-ion batteries don't have a memory, they don't need to be formatted, however extreme conditions aren't healthy for them e.g. leave it completely depleted or completely charged for prolonged periods of time (days?).
i just charge mine to full the 1st time i get it while it is off and i am fitting screen protector etc
i then use it till its about 10% and charge to full
i then use it as normal and top up charge whenever
it may not be needed but batterys have always been good for me and its a little routine i seem to be stuck in lol
hope your new phone is decent and you enjoy
There seems to be a debate on this topic as to whether you should do a FULL drain on your battery and I wanted to know what people's thoughts were on this in this forum.
I've used my phone twice now to the point where it has auto powered down on it's own. I will then hit the 'Power' button to ensure that battery is truly at 0% (the capacitative buttons blink for a second to confirm that I've hit the power button but there is no more juice left to turn the phone on).
I will plug into the wall charger and allow it to charge for 4 hours (usually around 4 hours, I'll check back to see and hit the power button and the onscreen battery display will show 100% charged).
I will unplug my phone, power on and keep using until the phone fully drains and powers off on it's own again before repeating this cycle.
However, others have stated that this is NOT necessary for Lithium Ion battery and can actually damage the circuitry of the battery? I've always been under the impression that you need to do a complete & full battery drain for lithium ion batteries at least 3 -5 full cycles/times before the battery has been conditioned/optimized for capacity.
Maybe I'm wrong...after all I'm coming from a G1 and this practice helped my atrocious battery life on that dinosaur!
If this is wrong, when should I be plugging my phone back in to charge? When it gives me the first warning to charge in (battery level turns orange - I assume this about 20% battery left) or on the "critical" battery warning when the battery icon in the notification panel turns red (assuming this is about 10% battery left)?
from what I've read in the past, letting your phone drain completely down until it shuts itself off is not good for the battery. I could be wrong but thats what I've read
nyydynasty said:
from what I've read in the past, letting your phone drain completely down until it shuts itself off is not good for the battery. I could be wrong but thats what I've read
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Yeah, I've heard both sides and I've conditioned my battery for the G1 because it seemed to drain faster if I plugged it into charge when there was 30% or so still left.
Well, I've done two complete cycles so I guess I'll just try recharging when it hits the red mark next time.
When you plug in to charge? Orange, red or whenever to top off?
i plug my phone in when i go to bed. I dont care what the battery is at. I also charge it while i'm at work so when I leave, its around 90-100%. My battery rarely reaches red.
nyydynasty said:
i plug my phone in when i go to bed. I dont care what the battery is at. I also charge it while i'm at work so when I leave, its around 90-100%. My battery rarely reaches red.
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LOL - that would prematurely killed my battery capacity on the G1! I went thru two batteries before I started draining all the way down. Made a difference between 4-6 hours and 6-10 hours.
Seems like this phone doesn't need to do that tho.
But what're you getting on average for battery life and display on time then?
nyydynasty said:
i plug my phone in when i go to bed. I dont care what the battery is at. I also charge it while i'm at work so when I leave, its around 90-100%. My battery rarely reaches red.
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I do the exact same thing. First with my Captivate and now with the SGS2 and the battery life on my captivate held pretty much exactly the same charge for the entire 15 months I used it. The battery on this SGS2 seems to last about 150-175% of the Captivate battery under the same conditions. I just came back from a week on the road where I spent 9-12 hours a day away from a charger and was using my phone constantly all day long and would get back to the hotel room with 30-40% battery left. Considering I was listening to music, playing plants vs zombies and sending and reading push email constantly throughout the day I am very satisfied with the battery life on this phone. I've never done any kind of conditioning or special battery maintenance.
DefTaker said:
LOL - that would prematurely killed my battery capacity on the G1! I went thru two batteries before I started draining all the way down. Made a difference between 4-6 hours and 6-10 hours.
Seems like this phone doesn't need to do that tho.
But what're you getting on average for battery life and display on time then?
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i stopped looking at my battery stats a long time ago. I'll peak in there once in a while but I dont really care what the stats show because I'm always around a charger. As long as I get through 12 hours or so without charging, i'm happy.
Some devices need a full drain cycle to properly calibrate the fuel gauge - ours does NOT.
Lithium ion batteries don't like deep discharging - in fact discharging them too much will permanently damage them (fortunately, all batteries sold to end users have built-in protection chips to prevent overdischarge - but do you REALLY want to rely on that chip?)
Similarly, they don't like charge being forced into them - so don't "bump charge". (Bump charging is removing and immediately reinserting the charger when the phone says charging is complete.)
For long-term storage, store them at around 50% capacity if not being used. LiIons that are stored at 100% charge lose capacity MUCH faster than ones stored at 50%.
A Li-Ion that has been sitting for a long time (months...) will develop a passivation layer that can be detrimental to performance - a few charge/discharge cycles will fix this. You don't need to do a full discharge/recharge - probably even from 90 to 70 and back up a few times should be fine.
Entropy512 said:
Some devices need a full drain cycle to properly calibrate the fuel gauge - ours does NOT.
Lithium ion batteries don't like deep discharging - in fact discharging them too much will permanently damage them (fortunately, all batteries sold to end users have built-in protection chips to prevent overdischarge - but do you REALLY want to rely on that chip?)
Similarly, they don't like charge being forced into them - so don't "bump charge". (Bump charging is removing and immediately reinserting the charger when the phone says charging is complete.)
For long-term storage, store them at around 50% capacity if not being used. LiIons that are stored at 100% charge lose capacity MUCH faster than ones stored at 50%.
A Li-Ion that has been sitting for a long time (months...) will develop a passivation layer that can be detrimental to performance - a few charge/discharge cycles will fix this. You don't need to do a full discharge/recharge - probably even from 90 to 70 and back up a few times should be fine.
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what about short charging during the course of the day? For instance, while I'm at work, I like to plug it in for a bit and then use it off the charger. Then before I leave, I charge it again for a bit. Do you think thats okay to charge the phone for short ~1 hour bursts?
No, the battery itself doesn't do well with deep discharges, but every device with one has circuitry to manage this and keep it from happening. The phone will shut off before the battery reaches a critically low discharge state. Just as it will cease charging before it blows up. Just because the phone shuts off does not mean that the battery is too low.
Assuming the phone has the proper cutoffs, it's not really any different to do two discharges to 50% or one to 100%. There have been studies that say leaving it on a charger is bad, doing two 50% cycles is worse than one 100%, etc. I've always just trusted that the phone manufacturers design the battery monitor and control circuits correctly and not worry much about it. And I've never had to replace a battery yet and always get acceptable life.
It's lithium ion, not nickel cadmium.
Full drains are bad for lithium ion.
Sent from my SGS II
nyydynasty said:
what about short charging during the course of the day? For instance, while I'm at work, I like to plug it in for a bit and then use it off the charger. Then before I leave, I charge it again for a bit. Do you think thats okay to charge the phone for short ~1 hour bursts?
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That's the best way to charge it.
Sent from my SGS II
MikeyMike01 said:
That's the best way to charge it.
Sent from my SGS II
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that makes me even more glad that its what I've been doing forever - lol
thanks
lithium ion batteries dont like being under 30%. and they also dont do well if they are kept at 80 percent or above all the time. for longest battery life don't just let it sit on the charger all day after it fully charges.
I agree with Mikey here.
Also, batteries take charging current better (less wear) at lower states of charge. That's why I put a variable-current charging algorithm into my Infuse kernels (charginghacks branch on github)
800 mA at low voltages (200 above stock), dropping to 550 near the end (50 below stock).
Unfortunately, charginghacks is likely not going to be possible with our hardware. One of the differences between the I9100 and I777 is a different battery charger circuit - ours is far less flexible.
Entropy512 said:
I agree with Mikey here.
Also, batteries take charging current better (less wear) at lower states of charge. That's why I put a variable-current charging algorithm into my Infuse kernels (charginghacks branch on github)
800 mA at low voltages (200 above stock), dropping to 550 near the end (50 below stock).
Unfortunately, charginghacks is likely not going to be possible with our hardware. One of the differences between the I9100 and I777 is a different battery charger circuit - ours is far less flexible.
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This phone actually charges with the screen on though, so it's not like the Infuse where the battery would drain with the screen on and the phone charging.
MikeyMike01 said:
This phone actually charges with the screen on though, so it's not like the Infuse where the battery would drain with the screen on and the phone charging.
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Infuse would charge with the screen on - but not if the screen was on AND the CPU was cranking.
(worst-case was navigation at full brightness - and I've seen reports that the I9100 also has the same problem.)
Entropy512 said:
Infuse would charge with the screen on - but not if the screen was on AND the CPU was cranking.
(worst-case was navigation at full brightness - and I've seen reports that the I9100 also has the same problem.)
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When web browsing, playing a game, or other general use late at night I'd plug the Infuse into the charger. It would still drain. Doing the same on the SGS II and it at the very least maintains it's battery level, so it's a drastic improvement over the Infuse.
To get the best battery life, when should I charge my phone? When the phone almost runs out of juice, or whenever I can (below 80%) ? Please help!
Deep discharges are bad, but so is spending lots of time at maximum charge.
I'd consider charging around when you hit 80% if it's convenient, but if you're expecting to be on battery for a while soon, top off whenever you want.
Discharging to 5-15% is bad for your battery longterm.
So to get the best battery, I should charge when it is $80 right?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using XDA App
kvl19 said:
So to get the best battery, I should charge when it is $80 right?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using XDA App
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There's no hard fast rule about 'exactly' when you should recharge it. Simply try and keep the phone from running < 20% a lot and never keep it always charged at 100%. If you get in the habit of charging in the 30-80% range, that would be best.
Basically throw out the old mentality of always using it as much as possible before recharging as lithium batteries simply don't work like the old nicad batteries from years past.
This phone uses a Li-Ion battery, and these batteries do NOT have any kind of "memory." Charge it whenever you want to. However, it's not really good to always keep it "topped off." (Deep discharges are also not good.)
If you are going to store the battery, drop it to 75%-50% charged first.
There are some things to consider, however:
If the phone's power circuit bypasses the battery when the battery is fully charge (instead of constantly pulling power from the battery while the battery is recharging), then leaving the phone plugged in is better than constant charge/discharge cycles. Based on the fact that this phone will work properly with NO battery attached when plugged in, this is probably a true statement (but I can't know for sure.)
Second, the phone itself might like to see the battery charged/discharged once in a while to calibrate the battery monitoring circuitry. (You never calibrate a li-ion battery - only the circuitry that monitors the battery.)
Here's a link with some interesting information:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Take care
Gary
Got it. Thanks for all your information
A small note to add why you shouldn't 'keep' it above 80% (constant top offs and being left on the charger). In general when above 80% it's been found that lithium ion batteries have a 'higher state of activity'.
What that does to the battery is what it sounds like. Higher state of activity means higher wear and overall shorter lifespan.
That wear is easily seen in laptops. Many people have the habit of leaving them always plugged in while using and through the night, so they're always 'ready to go'. People who consistently do this to their laptops usually find after 1 year the battery life is noticeably shorter, 1 1/2 years 50% or so of 'new' capacity, and after 2 years looking at replacing the battery.
And I usually find a cheap deal on eBay for them, plus $50-75 for me. At least phone batteries are a bit cheaper.
Sent from my páhhōniē
Is it better to charge them separately?
From what I heard, the dock charges the Tablet. So if I charged with the two connected, the dock would charge, and it would in turn charge the Tablet...sounds kind of inefficient to me, and maybe even bad?
I usually charge my TF101 tablet from it's dock and have done so since September, perfectly fine and no negative impact on the battery. Just don't make a habbit of burning the batteries too low, like 1% before you charge.
My dock does drain a little faster after having gone through a bunch of heavy discharges but that's why I usually charge before I get to like 3% .
Spidey01 said:
I usually charge my TF101 tablet from it's dock and have done so since September, perfectly fine and no negative impact on the battery. Just don't make a habbit of burning the batteries too low, like 1% before you charge.
My dock does drain a little faster after having gone through a bunch of heavy discharges but that's why I usually charge before I get to like 3% .
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Click to collapse
That's odd since it is recommended that you run the batteries down before charging them instead of putting it on the charger before it gets below 10%. Charging them without running the power down has a negative effect on the amount of charge it can hold.
That is not required anymore.The ideal charge level for these batteries is about 40%.
Charge cycles aren't a problem either so discharge is required once a month or even more.
These devices use LiPo and Co batteries.
For these, it is recommended NOT to fully let the battery discharge (unlike older batteries with memory effect).
It is however recommended to fully charge then fully discharge your battery ONCE when you first use it on order to calibrate the battery (ie: let the software learn what level means full and what level means empty)
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
eraursls1984 said:
That's odd since it is recommended that you run the batteries down before charging them instead of putting it on the charger before it gets below 10%. Charging them without running the power down has a negative effect on the amount of charge it can hold.
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You can check the link in my Sig. there is some info on recent batteries and calibration.
Yup, running it till it shuts off is mainly to calibrate the battery gauge. Most Lion batteries have auto shutoffs built into them to prevent discharging past the point of no return (which is why ebay batteries are so cheap, usually they lack this and other features, like temp sensors to kill the device before it melts)
As to charging both devices, i dont see how charging each together would harm anything aside from running more power through the dock might eventually wear it out? Honestly i dont think you have anything to worry about XD
But I can see the dock being discharged to zero so often. So far it has happened 4 times without me even knowing it since its often connected to the tablet. I wish there was a way to use the dock and disable the charging to the tablet.
Its better to have a few full discharge n full charge cycle for any new battery operated product to maximize the new battery capacity after a few cycles it will reach its peak capacity.
iceman127 said:
Its better to have a few full discharge n full charge cycle for any new battery operated product to maximize the new battery capacity after a few cycles it will reach its peak capacity.
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But I'm sure on many occasions just by the usage and nature of the dock that it will end up being drained to 0% quite often. I don't think my dock battery will survive too long -.-