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"Pure Speculation" WiFi and Bluetooth are getting a makeover. GPS being Removed.
This is pure speculation and I have no hard facts to back it up but I've always said, "If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck......it's a duck".
We all know that the Prime is not in any retail stores at this moment and it's debut has not went full swing yet. A couple batches of pre-orders have shipped but that's about it. Some websites now are showing they won't have any in stock until next month.
In my opinion, Asus stopped shipping orders out to retailers due to the WiFi, Bluetooth and GPS problems. Let's face it. This tablet isn't so popular yet that Asus can't keep the orders up. They realized they had to go back to the drawing board and either redesign or replace the antennas used for WiFi and Bluetooth. The next large wave of Primes should be the revised version which will have much better WiFi and Bluetooth performance.
Asus knows that it would cost them a lot less in the beginning if it just kicked it's chop shops into overdrive in order to ship a fully working tablet rather than getting a bunch of returns and a bad name in the process.
Now, when it comes to the GPS, this is more of a conspiracy theory but it makes sense. We all know that Asus removed "GPS" from the spec sheet and the reason they did is because this second revision of the tablet WILL NOT have a GPS chip inside or it will have it's GPS chip disabled. This is much easier and cheaper for them in the long run because they realize it will never work properly or efficiently without a WiFi signal.
Like I said before, this is just a theory but I just can't imagine why this tablet was supposed to be released in full force prior to Christmas and still continues to slowly trickle. Please don't tell me the tablet is so popular and that's the reason it's hard to get your hands on one because the general public doesn't even know about it yet.
If its a theory put it on the thread title.
And write it in capital letters..THEORY...
rubi76 said:
If its a theory put it on the thread title.
And write it in capital letters..THEORY...
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+1 I hate threads with so obviously baited titles. Just wrong.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium
rubi76 said:
If its a theory put it on the thread title.
And write it in capital letters..THEORY...
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I can't think of better words to say...thanks given.
OP...please change the title...if you don't know how then ask.
Thread title changed. Didn't mean for it to be a bate and switch which is why I started off by saying......wait for it......"THIS IS PURE SPECULATION".
Anyone could have easily stopped reading and move on at that point.
jrwingate6 said:
Thread title changed. Didn't mean for it to be a bate and switch which is why I started off by saying......wait for it......"THIS IS PURE SPECULATION".
Anyone could have easily stopped reading and move on at that point.
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Thanks for the change in title. With that said I've got to say that your piece is well written and an interesting theory...we shall see.
Doesn't google require GPS for any device connected to the market? I don't think they could remove GPS entirely . . .
Deletion please
richaoj said:
Doesn't google require GPS for any device connected to the market? I don't think they could remove GPS entirely . . .
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No. Bottom of the page...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1428200&page=13
Actually, this tablet is that popular that they more than likely been having trouble keeping up with orders. look how in the beginning alot of peoples orders got cancel because the online retailers didn't get enough units or Asus cut the numbers down sent to particular retailers. probably to make sure there was at least enough to go around to various outlets.
as far as Asus stopping production and completely redisigning, I highly doubt it. As far as Asus knows there's only a GPS issue. that's a problem across the board. the wifi and BT one isn't. seems to only be affecting some users. they already solved the GPS issue by removing it from spec sheets and anyone who sends Prime in, to get fixed for GPS, will have it removed more than likely. people who still have units with GPS will more than likely still receive updates n such for GPS to make the best of it.
demandarin said:
as far as Asus stopping production and completely redisigning, I highly doubt it.
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I agree with you. If they were going to do that they might as well have changed the back cover. Pulling a chip, taking out an antenna, and making some s/w modifications really isn't a big deal in the greater scheme of things. Certainly not as complex or costly as coming up with a different back cover.
The gps issue really need to be nailed down to its root cause, seems to me there are units out there with good gps performance. If the metal backplate is really the problem then we should not see all units with poor results. i just can't believe that the FCC approved this product without verifying the compliance to specs. To me it's probably a bad batch because of poor quality control, the next shipment around the end of the month could hopefully show a significant improvement and an ICS upgrade.
---------- Post added at 09:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:12 PM ----------
Correction: "we should see all units with poor results"
tedr44 said:
The gps issue really need to be nailed down to its root cause
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http://www.anandtech.com/show/5285/asus-eee-pad-transformer-prime-gps-issue-explained
Excellent write up, so the gps was not tested from the beginning and when they did test it, it was conducted with the alum backplate to demonstrate the problem but I kinda wonder why they didn't test it without the backplate which would be a whole lot more convincing imo. It's just too bad that Asus did not learn from the Ipad mistake so we will just have to live with this deficiency since the fix is too costly. Guess I'll just have to keep my phone gadget handy for gps use. Thanks.
>i just can't believe that the FCC approved this product without verifying the compliance to specs
The FCC is concerned with RF-radiating equipment complying with power and spectrum limitations, for interference reasons. The GPS module/antenna is a passive receiver and thus is not tested.
>I kinda wonder why they [Anandtech] didn't test it without the backplate
That would require a complete disassembly--not just removing the back shell, but all the components attached to it. It's not a feasible option.
Note that there was no bluetooth testing, either. I suppose we'll see another mea culpa about it next.
It's not just Anandtech. All of the tech blogs gave the Prime rosy reviews with nary a complaint. I'm surprised that not more criticisms are directed at these sites.
In a sense, I understand their predicament. The Prime was the only next-gen Android tablet coming out during Xmas. It's got quadcore. It's got iPad-like looks. And it's reasonably priced. Nobody wanted to be a Scrooge and give it bad marks.
So yeah, we all know asus botched the GPS in their latest tablet,
they denied us a fix (irony) and now we're left to pick up the pieces ourselves.
Does anyone have some pointers on how to get a bluetooth GPS receiver to work on the prime?
I have a really old one (+7yrs) that doesn't seem to catch on with any of the apps I tried.
Its so old its unlikely to be compatible with anything android so a new one is in order,
so I was wondering if anyone knew a cheap one I could grab to get some GPS going.
In a quick search I found this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/BT-Mini-Mob...408?pt=AU_GPS_Accessories&hash=item4160a71b08
It certainly is cheap, but is it a viable receiver?
Any help towards getting GPS on my prime would be greatly appreciated!
(No I dont have a GPS phone..)
Cheers,
- Sven
Him.. I would be a bit leery of that thing. Something seems a little.. anemic? Get it, try it, report back as I would be curious how well it works and how long the battery lasts. Check Amazon for "Keychain Bluetooth GPS Receiver" if you want something like that and read some reviews.
I have read very good things about the Pharos GPS brand.
Naturally, you then need an app from the market on your tablet that talks to the unit so that you can get the GPS data it has sent to your tablet. So, it is not just as simple as pairing the 2 BT devices, an app is needed to then gather and use the data on the tablet.
Ive looked into those apps, they do something called mock location I think?
I have an old as hell GPS receiver but alas the apps weren't having it.
It pairs as normal, even does the 0000 password thing like it used to on my win mobile 2003,
but it simply isn't pumping out any data, not sure whats going wrong.
And yeah, the pricetag on that ebay one is raising some "this cant be decent" flags on my end too.
Then again some of the cheap Chinese crappery has surprised me before.
If at all possible id prefer buying a tried-and-true GPS unit though.
Pharos brand IGPS 500 has been talked about many times here alone in the Prime threads.
Assuming it is this thing, I find the price a bit steep,
for 90 bucks you can pretty much buy a standalone tomtom or similar.
I was hoping for someone to confirm wether or not the specs listed on that ebay receiver would be compatible and workable for navigation,
and if it could in theory work, id gladly be the guineapig to try it out and see how it goes.
But if it would be a dud per definition there'd be no point.
Shop around my friend, I can see some on ebay for $50 and used for much much less.
The one on eBay does "in theory" work. Like I said, search Amazon and read some reviews on those little keychain models.
Sokonomi said:
Ive looked into those apps, they do something called mock location I think?
I have an old as................................................
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Just FYI regarding 'mock locations'. That's actually a setting in the TF201 that you have to use with external gps units. I can use Google Navigation on my TF201 with data from my phone gps via wifi (using the TetherGPS program that is available in the market). In order to make it work I have to turn on 'Allow mock locations' by going to Settings, Applications, Development and then click 'Allow mock locations'.
Good luck, and let us know how it goes.
I have tried and tried and tried to get my Droid to tether GPS but have not been able to make it happen - tried many apps and many settings. I can, however, tether 3G and data all day long. Have not yet solved the GPS via my phone yet as we have great GPS units in our phones already.. generally speaking.
Yes, many used ones, even one for 29 bucks, but "ya'll yanks" dont like us Dutchies.
None of em are willing to ship to the Netherlands so im plum out of luck with ebay and pharos.
Local shops here dont seem to carry Pharos products at all, so that's two dead ends on that one im afraid.
Amazon doesn't seem to carry any keychain GPS units.
So meanwhile I went to one of my favorite cheap swag suppliers, deal extreme.
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/65-cha...king-bluetooth-gps-receiver-data-logger-26337
What do you guys think of this thing? Its acing the reviews it seems.
They also mention google maps working with it somehow, so there may be a good chance?
Sokonomi said:
Yes, many used ones, even one for 29 bucks, but "ya'll yanks" dont like us Dutchies.
None of em are willing to ship to the Netherlands so im plum out of luck with ebay and pharos.
Local shops here dont seem to carry Pharos products at all, so that's two dead ends on that one im afraid.
Amazon doesn't seem to carry any keychain GPS units.
So meanwhile I went to one of my favorite cheap swag suppliers, deal extreme.
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/65-cha...king-bluetooth-gps-receiver-data-logger-26337
What do you guys think of this thing? Its acing the reviews it seems.
They also mention google maps working with it somehow, so there may be a good chance?
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Yes, they certainly do, here is just 1 http://www.amazon.com/Freedom-Input-Keychain-GPS-2000/dp/B0010NQ08M maybe not in the price you want, but they do carry several models.
Not only that, Amazon has the pharos IGPS new and used and if you can shop there, you can buy there. I would take the proven pharos in same price range over an unproven model any day.
Lock-N-Load said:
Yes, they certainly do, here is just 1 http://www.amazon.com/Freedom-Input-Keychain-GPS-2000/dp/B0010NQ08M maybe not in the price you want, but they do carry several models.
Not only that, Amazon has the pharos IGPS new and used and if you can shop there, you can buy there. I would take the proven pharos in same price range over an unproven model any day.
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Phobos is an American thing it seems, I cant shop at amazon.com either.
Although I agree with you that it is worth paying a little more if its a proven fix,
I cant get my hands on them so they are definitely out.
The 99 dollar keychain one probably doesn't resemble the 12 dollar one much.
bluetooth gpa
am using holux blue tooth gps receiver with bluegps program from market and have full gps functionality on prime.
adhuc0214 said:
am using holux blue tooth gps receiver with bluegps program from market and have full gps functionality on prime.
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Could you please specify which type you have?
Dealextreme seems to offer this brand, so I can get one if it really works well.
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/holux-m-1000-32-channel-bluetooth-car-gps-receiver-25563
Yeah, if your going to post a brand you have used with success here, PLEASE try to include the model - that would be super helpful.
Notice how the Holux says "32 parallel satellite-tracking channels for fast acquisition and reacquisition" and that one on Amazon is 51 (2x the price) and the Pharos does not say.
That other one on dealextreme even boasts 65 sats. Thats a helluva lot of sats.
Unfortunately its impossible to know if its actually compatible.
I did email the manufacturer about android compatability,
but the site was full of chinglish so dont expect an answer.
Sokonomi said:
That other one on dealextreme even boasts 65 sats. Thats a helluva lot of sats.
Unfortunately its impossible to know if its actually compatible.
I did email the manufacturer about android compatability,
but the site was full of chinglish so dont expect an answer.
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The thing is, there is no reason why it would not be "android compatible". These BT type GPS devices are BT devices. So, if they use a current BT standard - which they should - your fine. A BT type GPS is not made to be manufacturer specific. That is the point and beauty of them. They are for tablets, phones, computers, whatever. So that is not even a question worth asking.
The only things you should care about is the quality and name of the brand you choose and the software app you choose to put on your tablet. The tablet app you use is likely way more critical as it is what will do all of the work in sending the GPS signals to your tablet. The BT GPS unit is kind of just dumb in terms of who it is talking to and who talks to it. It does not really care. It has a current BT chip inside to communicate with a BT device - and so does your tablet. The software is going to be crucial as much as the quality of the GPS unit.... point is there is no "android compatible" BT GPS unit per se. These units are made to work with phones, laptops, tablets and more. It is brand dumb.
Every unit talked about here so far should 100% work. IF they do not, it is likely (1) a GPS quality issue - hence a $14 BT GPS keychain versus a $50-100 model or (2) the tablet software you pick to connect the 2 to talk.
If I could post a link I'd send you to the GPS over BT thread in the Android Forums. I'm still a few post shy of linking externally here.
theandies said:
If I could post a link I'd send you to the GPS over BT thread in the Android Forums. I'm still a few post shy of linking externally here.
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Thanks.. getting it done is not so much of an issue - tons of places on the web explain it. The software exists in the market as well. Really, it is first about picking the desired BT GPS unit of choice - I think that is the goal here first.
I know theres tons of apps for it, but its not as universal as it all sounds.
My receiver is proof of that unfortunately.
I think ill order the keychain one just for laughs,
we might get pleasantly surprised.
Sokonomi said:
I know theres tons of apps for it, but its not as universal as it all sounds.
My receiver is proof of that unfortunately.
I think ill order the keychain one just for laughs,
we might get pleasantly surprised.
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Click to collapse
I say go for it. Try it and see. Not a real huge loss if not. If not, sell it on craigslist and get your money back.
BUT, your not entirely correct. You self admit "I have a really old one (+7yrs)" - do you (1) realize how old that is in tech and (2) I bet that thing uses way old BT technology as just 1 possible reason why (not to mention GPS standards). Point is, my comment above is most certainly related to current & modern technology so needs that obvious context - not a piece from 2005
I open a new thread even though the content is and will be discussed in others.
It's just getting confused to keep writing, quoting or answering threads of 20 and more sides.
I hope that the mods are not banning me for this
Frustration is grabbing me badly, like for many others on this forum, because even though I can read that ASUS/Gary Key is giving us a hand to solve or improve issues, I think we are getting nowhere.
If the WiFi/BT issue is caused by lousy hardware/software combination, then no fw will solve the issue.
Many of us have still a chance to return the device and get 600€ back, as in my case.
We need an official statement from ASUS telling us in which way they will protect us and their own name from bad publicity, if the issues are not solvable.
ASUS in Denmark knows zero! I have to mention this forum and Gary Key, just to give them an idea of what it is going on.
The only place I managed to get valuable information is in this forum. That's poor for a company like ASUS.
No mention on their support sides in any country, that "they are experiencing" issues with the device.
I bought mine through Amazon DE, and I have 30 days (now only 14) to send it back. It seems that nobody can promise anything, so what do I/we do?
I have no other complaint that poor wifi and BT causing connection break downs or badly signal. The rest is fine!
What are we customers, that were relying on ASUS brand, quality and service, going to do?
Tell me to send it back and I will probably do it, tell me something else, BUT tell us something more that "we are working on XXXXXXXXXXX solution".
Begin to tell us, what is next step either to get a replacement with fixes or money back if the "returm window" is closed.
Thanks in advance and regards.
If you are not happy with your Bluetooth/Wi-Fi the only thing you can do is return it for a refund and wait for another tablet because the design of the Prime is causing every single prime to have a weaker Wi-Fi signal.
... so the thread Gary opened is useless?? I think it does not seem like they gave up yet.
What are they trying to fix then?
Are you saying this because you know more than Asus or "us" do?
Regards
what you said, OP, is perfectly understandable. XDA may have useful info but the company, Asus, needs to address the people more directly or more often. Gary can only do so much at a time. I'm sure he is being bombarded with stuff at the moment. although those who experience BT/wifi combo issues are limited in the way they use the combo, they are those who aren't affected. look at jjvega thread where he made a video showing it wasn't affecting his new tablet. Fixes are in the works. we just tend to be impatient alot of times. if return window is dwindling down, and issue is bothering you that much, then only sensible thing to do is return it. that'll just be Asus loss then. No one should be stuck with a device they unsatisfied with, point blank. good luck on what you decide to do. do what you feel is right. maybe even try to exchange if possible.
plus I don't think you will be banned for your OP. nothing wrong or out of line with what you said. to me, it seems like Gary answers faster to PM than in a thread where people there are even trying to flame or belittle him. I've got some great info or help from Gary. people keep abusing his presence n he will go. then people will out back n will wish he was still around.
Gary mentioned a fix in February, so it will most likely come after your return window. Return it while you can. Purchase it again when you are confident they have fixed this issue.
PrimeTimeBro said:
If you are not happy with your Bluetooth/Wi-Fi the only thing you can do is return it for a refund and wait for another tablet because the design of the Prime is causing every single prime to have a weaker Wi-Fi signal.
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Except for mine and my friends.
redpoint13 said:
Except for mine and my friends.
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Just because WI-FI has a slightly weaker range doesn't mean it doesn't work it just doesnt work quite as good as most other Wi-Fi devices but it should be fine for most in home situations. I am not sure exactly what issue OP is talking about though perhaps some Wi-Fi units truly have issues on same Primes I just known the range on the 3 Primes I have had is exactly the same in my home but not quite as good as my 4 other Wi-Fi devices I have tested ( range is not quite as far)
Hate to rub in. But in Singapore.. I am facing an equally lousy service support and they claim that during Singapore launch, they did not mention abt gps. They are trying every bit to say, no GPS. U want location, u use wifi...
And there is no return policy!
$uck big time. Cost me sgd $700...
That's why I pay with Paypal or credit card, you can get a refund.
It's not as if an answer will follow immediately after a bug is reported. It takes time to discover a bug, confirm it, come up with a fix, test it, obtain more samples, test on those samples, and distribute it, not to mention all the logistical corporate and other engineering steps that I skipped over. If you're unsure you want it, return it and buy it later.
As far as non-US issues, I'd bet that SO FAR there just haven't been as many issues in Germany as in the US, so they just haven't acknowledged it's a WW issue.
..so far issues are:
1) WiFi signal is not good as other WiFi devices (not laptops).
2) BT and WiFi issues when both are used at the same time.
3) Flickering of displays primarely on YouTube and after ICS installation.
4) MicroSD Card slot... as mentionned in another thread in this forum.
What a pity! But I wonder who in the h*** controlled this device before sending out on the market.
Nothing can be perfect, but these issues are not small things, and also very easy to troubleshoot and discover.
I test NetGear stuff, and something like this will be caught by "betatesters" 99.9%
Regards
My WiFi range was pretty good, at least acceptable. However when you move away from the router the speed got very slow. Next to the router I could get 20MB/s, 1 floor down (with full WiFi bars) I got 5 MB/s and another floor down around 2MB/s (still 2 WiFi bars).
GPS worked.. but wasn't good enough for navigation at least in populated area's.
Looks like a distraught customer in San Francisco is suing Asus. Article is at courthouse news.
markd311 said:
Looks like a distraught customer in San Francisco is suing Asus. Article is at courthouse news.
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Thanks for the link........
So, I was surfing the internets and accidentally came across this almost all white page with a single input box. Above it says something like goo g le or something like that. Wow, it's a search engine! Look what I found!
http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/02/13/43820.htm
damn he's still worried about the GPS lol there's much worse to worry about now
"Almost immediately after the purchase of his Transformer Prime, plaintiff began to experience significantly reduced GPS performance which rendered the device unreliable and not functional."
I'd really like to see how GPS not working on a tablet (which you don't really need anyway) makes a device not functional.
redbullcat said:
"Almost immediately after the purchase of his Transformer Prime, plaintiff began to experience significantly reduced GPS performance which rendered the device unreliable and not functional."
I'd really like to see how GPS not working on a tablet (which you don't really need anyway) makes a device not functional.
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The GPS device, which was advertised as an included feature of the tablet, is not functional.
I personally could not care less about the GPS and I'll never use it, but it's not fair to pretend that it wasn't important to some people.
It won't go anywhere. Money not long enough to hang with Asus..lol
redbullcat said:
"Almost immediately after the purchase of his Transformer Prime, plaintiff began to experience significantly reduced GPS performance which rendered the device unreliable and not functional."
I'd really like to see how GPS not working on a tablet (which you don't really need anyway) makes a device not functional.
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Without GPS he got lost in his house which made him unable to locate his router and get close enough to receive a signal and make wifi usable! Duh! Lol
Sent from my ADR6300 using xda premium
redbullcat said:
"Almost immediately after the purchase of his Transformer Prime, plaintiff began to experience significantly reduced GPS performance which rendered the device unreliable and not functional."
I'd really like to see how GPS not working on a tablet (which you don't really need anyway) makes a device not functional.
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Most likely because google uses a lot of API calls to the internal GPS for their subsystems. Also for a device to be defined as "functional" all parameters and specifications from design must be met.
I can see this case from both sides. On the one side they have told any one whom is having these problems that they will work with them or issue a return. On the other hand the FCC verified the functionality of the tablet as it was and the tablet is sold under false pretences. Sounds like an interesting case.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
The plaintiff would have to argue that GPS functionality is the primary reason for the purchase of his Prime.
The main problem w/ this case is that he knew of this issue before product arrival and did not choose to return it to which he would have to argue that ASUS had perceived that this was something that could be fixed with software, which is not true because ASUS had admitted that hardware was the fault.
Plus FCC already passed this s being a competent wireless device. I can see possibly trying to argue. But trying to say wifi is useless or doesn't work is b.s. there hasn't been one person who wifi was completely broken or Unable to connect. So he will easily loose on that. Plus Asus people will thoroughly check for any tampering at all and anything that person could've done that's wrong. They will see if he has all the latest firmware dates n all that. They will probably get it to work n the courtroom n make the guy look silly..lol. a dead end case really. Believe Asus already has legal teams n plan in actions for situations just like this. So many ways he could easily lose the case.
---------- Post added at 10:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:53 AM ----------
Plus they'll easily say why didn't he return it or exchange it. He wasn't forced to keep it..lol. open n shut case win for Asus. It might just open their eyes though enough to finally make a big move. So regardless if plaintiff loses this case, something good can come out of it.
redbullcat said:
I'd really like to see how GPS not working on a tablet (which you don't really need anyway) makes a device not functional.
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I'll be happy to show you how WiFi not working on a tablet makes the device not functional. Also, I can show you how when you pair a Bluetooth device and lose 85% of your already weak WiFi throughput, it makes your device nonfunctional.
The litigant may not have alleged those defects in his original complaint, but that's a simple matter of an amendment. I'm sure it'll come up.
Some of you are unreal! Nobody cares if you think the GPS doesn't matter because it doesn't have cell capability. I have 3 GPS units that function great and they don't have WIFI or cell service. ASUS sold the prime as having GPS and that's basically false advertising. If you bought an early model that states GPS and listened to ASUS saying they will fix the issue, you'll be waiting forever because the only fix is another external GPS. They go to court show the functionality of the GPS , then they're ordered to comply with their stated specs. I don't care what someone does with their prime but you cannot tell me or anyone else how to.
demandarin said:
Plus they'll easily say why didn't he return it or exchange it. He wasn't forced to keep it..lol. open n shut case win for Asus. It might just open their eyes though enough to finally make a big move. So regardless if plaintiff loses this case, something good can come out of it.
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Before you call this an "open shut case" you might want to spend some time reading the Uniform Commercial Code (e.g. the law that governs the sale of goods in the US). Pay particular attention to:
§ 2-714. Buyer's Damages for Breach in Regard to Accepted Goods.
(1) Where the buyer has accepted goods and given notification (subsection (3) of Section 2-607) he may recover as damages for any non-conformity of tender the loss resulting in the ordinary course of events from the seller's breach as determined in any manner which is reasonable.
(2) The measure of damages for breach of warranty is the difference at the time and place of acceptance between the value of the goods accepted and the value they would have had if they had been as warranted, unless special circumstances show proximate damages of a different amount.
(3) In a proper case any incidental and consequential damages under the next section may also be recovered.
I know that's a lot of words, but if you sell a "good" and list a feature on the package or marketing materials, that creates a "warranty". If the feature doesn't work, you've breached that warranty and the "tender" is "non-conforming". Even if the buyer "accepts" the good, he can still sue for breach. Isn't law fun when you actually read it?
Thank you! Someone making sense.
demandarin said:
there hasn't been one person who wifi was completely broken or Unable to connect.
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There are several threads where WiFi was completely broken. Some people even had their WiFi completely devoid of life after OTA update.
dcAndroidFan said:
Before you call this an "open shut case" you might want to spend some time reading the Uniform Commercial Code (e.g. the law that governs the sale of goods in the US). Pay particular attention to:
§ 2-714. Buyer's Damages for Breach in Regard to Accepted Goods.
(1) Where the buyer has accepted goods and given notification (subsection (3) of Section 2-607) he may recover as damages for any non-conformity of tender the loss resulting in the ordinary course of events from the seller's breach as determined in any manner which is reasonable.
(2) The measure of damages for breach of warranty is the difference at the time and place of acceptance between the value of the goods accepted and the value they would have had if they had been as warranted, unless special circumstances show proximate damages of a different amount.
(3) In a proper case any incidental and consequential damages under the next section may also be recovered.
I know that's a lot of words, but if you sell a "good" and list a feature on the package or marketing materials, that creates a "warranty". If the feature doesn't work, you've breached that warranty and the "tender" is "non-conforming". Even if the buyer "accepts" the good, he can still sue for breach. Isn't law fun when you actually read it?
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But technically GPS does work. Not just as anyone is expecting it to. Nowhere does it say a working GPS has to be able to navigate. As long as it can lock n pull your location that falls under working.
Regardless if the guy wins or loses the case, good can come out if it.
---------- Post added at 11:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:38 AM ----------
BUYMECAR said:
There are several threads where WiFi was completely broken. Some people even had their WiFi completely devoid of life after OTA update.
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Who said this applies to this guy case? Lol. Plus I haven't seen these threads n I'm here all the time. Of a completely broken wifi and can't connect at all? Even if true it was caused by software, which can easily be changed. Not a hardware fault. Get it right..lmao
demandarin said:
But technically GPS does work. Not just as anyone is expecting it to. Nowhere does it say a working GPS has to be able to navigate. As long as it can lock n pull your location that falls under working.
Regardless if the guy wins or loses the case, good can come out if it.
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If you bought a car with an engine that only ran in completely optimal environmental conditions, and could only get the car up to a maximum speed of 22 MPH, would you be content that it "technically" worked? Or would you think that was a defect?
dcAndroidFan said:
I'll be happy to show you how WiFi not working on a tablet makes the device not functional. Also, I can show you how when you pair a Bluetooth device and lose 85% of your already weak WiFi throughput, it makes your device nonfunctional.
The litigant may not have alleged those defects in his original complaint, but that's a simple matter of an amendment. I'm sure it'll come up.
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Those make it not functional. But GPS doesn't make a device not functional, and that was what was stated.
OK, yes, the device was sold with false advertising. But ASUS obviously didn't know that GPS wasn't working, otherwise they'd have tried to fix it.
At the end of the day, to me it doesn't matter. I never used GPS on my TF101 and I'll likely never use it on my TF201. I have an excellent smartphone, which is on me 95% of the time. If I ever need GPS, I'll use that.
Plus its not even known if he attempted to return or exchange tablet. And if he sent it in for RMA or not. If he didn't then that's even more ammo for Asus. regardless of assumptions made if Rma can fix it or not. They will check if he followed the proper channels to getting issue resolved. If he didn't do anything then he lost for sure. Plus I bet if this actually does go to court Asus will get GPS working in there..lol. as soon as it shows a lock. Its a wrap. Fits definition of GPS. Able to find and lock on satellite. GPS definition is Global Positioning System. So if it pulls info, its technically working. Might not work to extent you would like but still fits description and therefore is why FCC tested it. Even most people GPS here now can at least see satellites and get a lock. Navigating is the problem for most. So it technically still fits a working description.
---------- Post added at 11:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:47 AM ----------
dcAndroidFan said:
If you bought a car with an engine that only ran in completely optimal environmental conditions, and could only get the car up to a maximum speed of 22 MPH, would you be content that it "technically" worked? Or would you think that was a defect?
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GPS n engine not even close comparison. Engine needed for car to work. GPS isn't needed for device to work. Tablet will still work fine without it. That's the difference.
Anyways there was already enough debate on this. GPS is a dead issue. No matter results of this case, it should turn out good for everyone. Maybe the fact someone even taking them to court over this will open their eyes. So I'm not going to argue what your meaning of GPS is. We will see how the case unfolds, if it even goes to trial..lol. more thsn likely Asus offer guy a new prime and case n charges are dismissed..lol. avoidance of going to court would be first priority of Asus. If it does go, then Asus will use everything in their power to show device was working as listed by spec as approved by FCC. They have more than enough paperwork n proof to prove that.
Went into the local Best Buy and they mentioned they can order a new Prime on their store terminals, but you can not order on line yourself (strange). They showed me on a terminal and the part number changed from an "A" suffix to a "B" on the product code. It is also treated as different product inventory.
I was told this is the new revised Prime, but I seem to recall this version mentioned in the forum already (could not locate), but was an internal design change and not the unicorn known as a revised back panel.
Best Buy can order one and showed me an order they did for a customer a few days before (waiting to be picked up). They would not open it, but I was hoping the unicorn really did exist.
possibility this could be true. Waiting to hear back details on these C4 models. most I've seen posting, that has the new C4 model said theirs work great. No wifi/BT dropout and wifi works fine. even posting internal GPS works well and maintaining lock while driving. there was only 1 person who said their GPS didn't hold the lock but majority, I've seen, said it did.
we'll just have to wait & see what can be found out about any revised prime or the c4 models.
I have one on order from Best Buy's warehouse that should be in the store for me to pickup today or Thursday. I will report back in this thread as soon as I get it and do some testing.
All I want is the Wi-Fi not to dropout while streaming audio over Bluetooth. GPS is not really an issue for me, but it would be a bonus if that worked too.
rushless said:
Went into the local Best Buy and they mentioned they can order a new Prime on their store terminals, but you can not order on line yourself (strange). They showed me on a terminal and the part number changed from an "A" suffix to a "B" on the product code. It is also treated as different product inventory.
I was told this is the new revised Prime, but I seem to recall this version mentioned in the forum already (could not locate), but was an internal design change and not the unicorn known as a revised back panel.
Best Buy can order one and showed me an order they did for a customer a few days before (waiting to be picked up). They would not open it, but I was hoping the unicorn really did exist.
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Unicorn made me lol so hard
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
rushless said:
Went into the local Best Buy and they mentioned they can order a new Prime on their store terminals, but you can not order on line yourself (strange). They showed me on a terminal and the part number changed from an "A" suffix to a "B" on the product code. It is also treated as different product inventory.
I was told this is the new revised Prime, but I seem to recall this version mentioned in the forum already (could not locate), but was an internal design change and not the unicorn known as a revised back panel.
Best Buy can order one and showed me an order they did for a customer a few days before (waiting to be picked up). They would not open it, but I was hoping the unicorn really did exist.
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Click to collapse
I will check in to this today, but it is the first I have heard about it. I don't know of any revised part number.
I can tell you that we do have the most Prime inventory on hand we have ever had and they should all be C4 serial numbers at this point.
Addendum: I am comparing the part labels on my BCOK and C3OK and there is no difference in part numbers, model numbers, or listed features (GPS still listed on C3).
The only difference are the serial numbers (obviously) and the check number.
phree1 said:
I will check in to this today, but it is the first I have heard about it. I don't know of any revised part number.
I can tell you that we do have the most Prime inventory on hand we have ever had and they should all be C4 serial numbers at this point.
Addendum: I am comparing the part labels on my BCOK and C3OK and there is no difference in part numbers, model numbers, or listed features (GPS still listed on C3).
The only difference are the serial numbers (obviously) and the check number.
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That would be awesome if we could get some inside info!
demandarin said:
possibility this could be true. Waiting to hear back details on these C4 models. most I've seen posting, that has the new C4 model said theirs work great. No wifi/BT dropout and wifi works fine. even posting internal GPS works well and maintaining lock while driving. there was only 1 person who said their GPS didn't hold the lock but majority, I've seen, said it did.
we'll just have to wait & see what can be found out about any revised prime or the c4 models.
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My TF300 is a C4O..idk if it matters.
I really miss the screen of the Prime
Does anyone actually have a C4 Model in there hands?
And im not talking about the Tf300.
David522d said:
Does anyone actually have a C4 Model in there hands?
And im not talking about the Tf300.
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I've seen those people here. about 6 of them posted owning one.
demandarin said:
I've seen those people here. about 6 of them posted owning one.
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Maybe its finally time to rma my bcokas model
If only i wasnt out of the US right now, i'd go trade mine in.
Most likely they are changing the internal SKU they use to order the prime and instead of stocing them on shelves they will special order them or order them from their wearhouse... Invintory seems to be a big issue, im told that there is still a greater demand than supply in the GTA (canada).
I have been looking but have yet to see a prime on shelves in any store in my area. Seems to be lots of 300's available tho, maybe because its easier to manufacture? who knows, Asus sure as hell doesnt.
Perhaps the TF202?
or the TF300?
i dont know
im actually hoping to know if a TF202 prime with 3g/4g wil be available
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Asus+-+...Gray/4038674.p?id=1218450204286&skuId=4038674
Can be bought IN STORE ONLY
I seriously doubt it is revision. If we have a design change (internal or external).. which is a "revision", that requires Asus to file with FCC I believe.
So, this "revision".. at best.. will be either new "parts" or "components".. at most.
Btw, I've seen about 5 to 6 ppl commenting about purchasing C4 & of those 6 people.. one have commented on the "same" issue that we are facing with previous versions. I think it's foolish to conclude after 6 people that C4 versions have rectified the issues.... or didn't rectify the issues.
So, until we know or see Asus rectify the design flaw (re-adjusting/positioning the signal antenna & few others... & change of metal backplate)... I can only assume that we'll continue to see Prime's with issues. Just, for the sake of Asus.. I hope with each versions.... it comes with less issues & their QC has improved.
Btw, I do remember during the GPS Dongle leak... Hai Trat's email mentioned.. & advised potential Prime purchasers to look for C3 & C4 version as they have less issue (or without issue) compared to previous versions. That means ..
1. They haven't completely come up with a solution.. as we'll continue to see Prime's with issue due to DESIGN FLAW
2. He didn't mention anything about "revised" Primes.
we know only what the people with these newer models are reporting. all of them except one, that we've seen so far said their devices work well and suffer no wifi/bt dropoff issue & thier wifi works great. even internal gps. we even had Erusman, who created the opening up of prime thread, said his newer model C3 has no bt/wifi dropoff issue. SO the chance is very high that something is different about these newer models, especially c4 ones.
I'm going with the optimistic/realistic view considering what c4 owners have stated so far. You would think Asus corrected the issues somehow. Plus it doesn't even matter if it has to go through FCC again. It could have and we just don't know about it. That's if it even had to. the GPS dongle had to go through FCC also yet no one knew about it, at least from FCC standpoint. Its FCC file was never reported or found, initially. So its possible any new changes could have been made, went through FCC, and released. No one is obligated to tell us and tech sites do miss FCC scoops alot also. So it isn't like if it did go through FCC again, we would automatically know about it.
What i do know, from what i was told, is that They narrowed the wifi problem down to some not being assembled properly & some having a faulty 2nd. wifi antennae. Out of all the reported RMA, for wifi issues, a very small number had been found to have a "REAL" problem. I do know the numbers but is not needed to state. So it could be possible these newer models have a more critical eye & better quality control on them. Meaning they working and assembled like they are supposed to. Maybe that in combination of newer components or something. So anything thing is possible really. Its all speculation but with majority of known reports on new c4 model being good, things look good.
I will know details about this C4 model shortly and if any changes were made and what they were. I'm just waiting for the reply on that info. So it could either be a slight internal design change or they just have a more critical eye on the quality control so devices assembled like they supposed to. Either one would be good on Asus part.
plus something else alot of people may not know, there are actually two variants of tegra3 floating around in prime models. This was discovered by a developer and confirmed by me when i showed him the info on the different tegra3 variants. The early model primes use the AP30H variant of tegra3. the newer models all use the newer T30 variant of tegra3. this is not the same one in the 300 , as the 300 uses the T30L. This was all proven by developer here through coding of several different devices. Early and late models. I'm also waiting on info on why was the tegra3 versions changed up mid production or so. What are the benefits of the newer T30 variant that made them switch. Developer did say that older variant(AP30H)has better battery life and newer variant(T30) can take higher clocks/voltages/etc.. This all was discovered when developer, Motley, was making new changes to custom kernel and different people had different results. Some had the new kernel working and some didn't. since the kernel was made for an assumed universal tegra3 version. So the developer, I think it was Motley, added in a script or something to determine which tegra3 version you have and make adjustments on the fly as needed. So now his kernel produces desired results on either tegra3 version. There is a way to tell which version you have but you have to look in his thread for the how to.
demandarin said:
we know only what the people with these newer models are reporting. all of them except one, that we've seen so far said their devices work well and suffer no wifi/bt dropoff issue & thier wifi works great. even internal gps. we even had Erusman, who created the opening up of prime thread, said his newer model C3 has no bt/wifi dropoff issue. SO the chance is very high that something is different about these newer models, especially c4 ones.
I'm going with the optimistic/realistic view considering what c4 owners have stated so far. You would think Asus corrected the issues somehow. Plus it doesn't even matter if it has to go through FCC again. It could have and we just don't know about it. That's if it even had to. the GPS dongle had to go through FCC also yet no one knew about it, at least from FCC standpoint. Its FCC file was never reported or found, initially. So its possible any new changes could have been made, went through FCC, and released. No one is obligated to tell us and tech sites do miss FCC scoops alot also. So it isn't like if it did go through FCC again, we would automatically know about it.
What i do know, from what i was told, is that They narrowed the wifi problem down to some not being assembled properly & some having a faulty 2nd. wifi antennae. Out of all the reported RMA, for wifi issues, a very small number had been found to have a "REAL" problem. I do know the numbers but is not needed to state. So it could be possible these newer models have a more critical eye & better quality control on them. Meaning they working and assembled like they are supposed to. Maybe that in combination of newer components or something. So anything thing is possible really. Its all speculation but with majority of known reports on new c4 model being good, things look good.
I will know details about this C4 model shortly and if any changes were made and what they were. I'm just waiting for the reply on that info. So it could either be a slight internal design change or they just have a more critical eye on the quality control so devices assembled like they supposed to. Either one would be good on Asus part.
plus something else alot of people may not know, there are actually two variants of tegra3 floating around in prime models. This was discovered by a developer and confirmed by me when i showed him the info on the different tegra3 variants. The early model primes use the AP30H variant of tegra3. the newer models all use the newer T30 variant of tegra3. this is not the same one in the 300 , as the 300 uses the T30L. This was all proven by developer here through coding of several different devices. Early and late models. I'm also waiting on info on why was the tegra3 versions changed up mid production or so. What are the benefits of the newer T30 variant that made them switch. Developer did say that older variant(AP30H)has better battery life and newer variant(T30) can take higher clocks/voltages/etc.. This all was discovered when developer, Motley, was making new changes to custom kernel and different people had different results. Some had the new kernel working and some didn't. since the kernel was made for an assumed universal tegra3 version. So the developer, I think it was Motley, added in a script or something to determine which tegra3 version you have and make adjustments on the fly as needed. So now his kernel produces desired results on either tegra3 version. There is a way to tell which version you have but you have to look in his thread for the how to.
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This really bugs & annoys me. I have a lot of problem with your statement (not towards you, but if anything.. completely directed towards Asus). I think it is fairly obvious (perhaps due to your bias towards Asus) that you have become the unofficial Asus spokesperson in this forum. They continue to respond to your question (btw, I am thankful one SOME info. from you), it boggles my mind how Asus continues to respond to your "questions" & yet, those with RMA issues (too many to count) .. and other various issues are just.. "waiting".
Anyways, few problems I have your statement:
1. You are concluding after 5 or 6 people. To conclude or state after such small amount of "pool" that issues are fixed/rectified/resolved is rather foolish & extremely dangerous. Now, I understand your optimism & belief in Asus (one aspect that was constant with you since the launch of Prime) but I think it is "fair" to warn & state that NOTHING is known, and take extreme precaution if you were to purchase Transformer Prime.
2. "Real" issues with WIFI is based on ASUS standard. Whatever that is... If they are basing their judgement based on their standard, I think it is fairly easy to create certain % or whatever to favor ASUS. For example, Gary Key's interview with CNET & the #s he gave....
I have ****TY WIFI on my Prime (no way am I going to RMA the device with all the crazy Asus RMA stories). But if I were to RMA, and ASUS finds my ****ty WIFI performance (based on my standard) acceptable due to whatever this standard they have... I think it is fair to say this whatever # or % you got from them.. is "tainted" to favor ASUS.
We have multiple reports of those who RMAed their PRIME because WIFI sucks, and when the device was returned.. it was still "CRAP".
So, we can say.. either our standards are high (based on comparisons with our own device)... or Asus standard on WIFI is really low, broad, and general.
3. And lastly, I HOPE ASUS does resolve the issue. Also, I hope it performs to.. or on par with many other devices without so much annoyance that certain individuals most go through to make PRIME acceptable. Btw, I will check FCC everyday just for you...
David522d said:
Does anyone actually have a C4 Model in there hands?
And im not talking about the Tf300.
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I have the Prime C40, I posted on a different thread,I bought it on 5/5/12 from Best buy this is my fourth Prime and as I said in my previous post I can use bluetooth without wifi drop out and I took an 8 mile trip with GPS lock all the way. I have been using it at least 3 hours a day and not one drop out on wifi. I ran with GPS again today at 60mph stayed locked for the 4 mile trip to work. As I said in my other post this is how the Prime should have been from day one! I hope all C40's will be this way so I can get the Asus bad taste out of my mouth. I wont go into the RMA process on the 3rd one.
shinzz said:
This really bugs & annoys me. I have a lot of problem with your statement (not towards you, but if anything.. completely directed towards Asus). I think it is fairly obvious (perhaps due to your bias towards Asus) that you have become the unofficial Asus spokesperson in this forum. They continue to respond to your question (btw, I am thankful one SOME info. from you), it boggles my mind how Asus continues to respond to your "questions" & yet, those with RMA issues (too many to count) .. and other various issues are just.. "waiting".
Anyways, few problems I have your statement:
1. You are concluding after 5 or 6 people. To conclude or state after such small amount of "pool" that issues are fixed/rectified/resolved is rather foolish & extremely dangerous. Now, I understand your optimism & belief in Asus (one aspect that was constant with you since the launch of Prime) but I think it is "fair" to warn & state that NOTHING is known, and take extreme precaution if you were to purchase Transformer Prime.
2. "Real" issues with WIFI is based on ASUS standard. Whatever that is... If they are basing their judgement based on their standard, I think it is fairly easy to create certain % or whatever to favor ASUS. For example, Gary Key's interview with CNET & the #s he gave....
I have ****TY WIFI on my Prime (no way am I going to RMA the device with all the crazy Asus RMA stories). But if I were to RMA, and ASUS finds my ****ty WIFI performance (based on my standard) acceptable due to whatever this standard they have... I think it is fair to say this whatever # or % you got from them.. is "tainted" to favor ASUS.
We have multiple reports of those who RMAed their PRIME because WIFI sucks, and when the device was returned.. it was still "CRAP".
So, we can say.. either our standards are high (based on comparisons with our own device)... or Asus standard on WIFI is really low, broad, and general.
3. And lastly, I HOPE ASUS does resolve the issue. Also, I hope it performs to.. or on par with many other devices without so much annoyance that certain individuals most go through to make PRIME acceptable. Btw, I will check FCC everyday just for you...
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I agree , for the most part. It isn't a conclusion made but good speculation made. You are right, Nothing is ABSOLUTELY known yet about newer models. which is why i stated POSSIBLE scenarios. Prime issues are nothing new so no real need to "WARN" people as most coming into here already read about them. They know some have issues and alot don't. This can be said for any newly released device though as they all have their issues. Like the new ipad, new 3oo, new Acer model ,etc.. Its all a working process and all have issues reported about them so far.
For your first part, its not that serious. I'd say just let it go..lol Its not like the way you make it seem. if the roles were reversed, I'd be glad/grateful that someone could at least try to find out more info and relay to the community on it. Especially if its info not released yet. plus it doesn't have to be taken as gospel. all things should be taken with a grain of salt.
I knew when i didn't answer your other similar question you posted before in another thread , this would pop back up...lol let it go, its not that serious.
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rand33099 said:
I have the Prime C40, I posted on a different thread,I bought it on 5/5/12 from Best buy this is my fourth Prime and as I said in my previous post I can use bluetooth without wifi drop out and I took an 8 mile trip with GPS lock all the way. I have been using it at least 3 hours a day and not one drop out on wifi. I ran with GPS again today at 60mph stayed locked for the 4 mile trip to work. As I said in my other post this is how the Prime should have been from day one! I hope all C40's will be this way so I can get the Asus bad taste out of my mouth. I wont go into the RMA process on the 3rd one.
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this is one of the ones i was speaking of. Me along with others are very curious to see if there really are any differences with this newer model.
Until I see a video of said newer models performing the way it should (which we haven't, wifi/bt they still complain and still most have huge dropoff), they're just like all the others- hit or miss. I can say I'm the King of the Britains too, see how that works?
NeoMagus said:
Until I see a video of said newer models performing the way it should (which we haven't, wifi/bt they still complain and still most have huge dropoff), they're just like all the others- hit or miss. I can say I'm the King of the Britains too, see how that works?
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You might be correct about "hit or miss" If i'm correct the C40 should be the April 2012 model, and if Best buy is getting a supply we should start seeing more comments about them shortly. The city I live in was dry of the Prime for months now all of a sudden they had 12 on Saturday maybe they feel confident to produce more. Just a thought.