I’ve been struggling with why my GPS quit seeing any satellites after the 9.4.2.11 update when I realized something looking at Anand’s teardown:
AnandTech - ASUS Eee Pad Transformer Prime Teardown
Perhaps the antenna connections are weak or have become slightly corroded. Based on his teardown the contacts are spring type “pogopins” which mate with the opposite face. With that thought in mind I decided to try and flex the tablet ever so slightly to clean the contacts. The idea being that the slight flex would cause the pins to scrape the contact surface rubbing a clean(er) spot.
Before the 9.4.2.11 update I had the typical poor performance from the GPS, getting locks but losing them on the move. I had given up on it [GPS] until this update which touted GPS improvements. After updating and wiping I tested the GPS again, but could not see even one satellite after letting it sit, more than once, for over an hour with Wi-Fi on and off.
I must stress I strongly suggest you do not try this on your tablet for fear of damaging it. I take no responsibly for damage to anyone’s tablet and am only reporting my actions.
After this procedure I am able to see several birds indoors, albeit with weak SNR. This has me convinced that part of the problem is related to these contacts, and may serve to explain some of the weak Wi-Fi reports. It may also help illustrate why only some users are seeing issues, and perhaps why some of the returns are functioning better. These contacts may be more robust in some units or possibly be able to be rectified via service.
I do understand there are other factors related to both the GPS and Wi-Fi, but this appears, at least to me, to be part of the bigger picture.
Please note that the amount of flex I’m talking about is next to nothing, enough to see a change in light bleed around the display, I was afraid to go too far.
*Mods, I'm not sure why this post was deleted before, please PM me if there is a problem with this post. I did not include the link.*
Hi jhovak,
that sounds very interesting and makes me nervous thinking of manipulating a new device. You are brave!
Do you have some pictures of your action?
Thanks.
Cheers,
René.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=21489600&postcount=10
You can bypass the pogo pins by connecting a pigtail to the UF.L connector at the chip leadouts, then solder the other end to the antennae's copper pads. It should improve reception.
e.mote,
Looks like you beat me to this I never saw your post, but that's exactly my thoughts. I was able to torque it a bit to get it working again. That maye be what they are doing to get the RMAs reported to work better, "fixed".
motocamp,
Unfortunately I don't have any pictures of the process, but you wouldn't be able to see much, I only deformed the case/screen very slightly. The problem is you may end up popping other solder joints in the process.
jhovak said:
I’ve been struggling with why my GPS quit seeing any satellites after the 9.4.2.11 update when I realized something looking at Anand’s teardown:
AnandTech - ASUS Eee Pad Transformer Prime Teardown
Perhaps the antenna connections are weak or have become slightly corroded. Based on his teardown the contacts are spring type “pogopins” which mate with the opposite face. With that thought in mind I decided to try and flex the tablet ever so slightly to clean the contacts. The idea being that the slight flex would cause the pins to scrape the contact surface rubbing a clean(er) spot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. Makes perfect sense to me.
Everyone has the same aluminum back, so you would expect the same results across the board (barring weather and atmospheric conditions) for all Primes. There has to be another piece to the puzzle of bad GPS performance when some user's report GPS working and getting locks and other user's reports no GPS active with no satellites seen and no locks.
Thanks e.mote for your explanation of the antena contacts. I think you hit the cause of the GPS problem. Hopefully ASUS saw your post and address this prioblem so it does not occur on their the planned 700 series.
Cheers
I forwarded all this info to Gary in a pm just recently. including details, link to that thread e.mote posted in and that teardown showing pogo pins. hopefully he will get it soon and pass info to engineers.
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pardon my lack of GPS knowledge but what is considered good or bad when comparing GPS in general? This is my prime outside earlier but there were fluctuations
I am a bit more skeptical about the hardware pins as a sole cause. Reason:
I had pretty decent GPS performance until this last update which totally killed my GPS performance. This suggests to me that there is a firmware/driver type component to at least some people's problems. The same update did correct other people's problems. So perhaps there are some slight differences in the GPS chips that the firmware is not playing nice with or accounting for?
I can confirm this at least partially works. I tried to drive home using GPS test the other day from work and could hardly get a lock especially at high speeds. I saw this and did a number of squeezes aroung the area of the GPS connector and had a significant change.
Drove home with GPS test today and I hardly ever saw it not locked, even going at 70mph, though it would go between 2 and 8 locked sats or so. Halfway through the drive I opened google maps. It took 10-15 seconds to lock, but then I watched my blue arrow follow the road exactly almost the entire way home. It only lost lock when I was stopped under an overpass at a stop light.
To be clear the signal strength is not that of my phone, but at least it's working now.
Have you seen the new evidence found? It was found out that Original Transformer actually uses the soldered type connection E.mote described. I was gonna start a thread but no use as this one is perfect for the new info.
FIRST here is the quote n pics from e.mote of the current Prime type of connection
e.mote said:
From looking at the Prime teardown, your wifi loss may be due to a loose connection. Instead of running a pigtail directly from the chip lead-out to the antenna, the Prime uses spring-loaded pogo pins (1st pic) as intermediate connectors.
Second pic shows the pogo pins for the main wifi and GPS antennae. The spring-loaded pins are pressed against the copper pads of the respective antenna (3rd pic). Suffice it to say, this isn't the most secure way to connect the antennae.
Aside from possible broken or intermittent connection, it also looks like a high-loss connection, and could contribute to attenuated signal reception. My guess is that this may be the main culprit of wifi/GPS woes, with the metal shell being a contributing factor.
The 4th pic below is a U.FL connector that's normally used for antenna pigtails. The lip has an outer overhang for a secure connection.
My guess is that the tablet was bumped and something shifted a bit, breaking the antenna connection.
This is FYI only, as the unit isn't user-serviceable. It does look like a simple fix, but you'd have to open the unit. Edit: You can try smacking the top edge of the tablet a few times and see if it will jar back into place. Worth a try.
Pogo pins used as intermediate connectors for wifi & GPS antennae
The two pogo pins for main wifi and GPS. The spring-loaded heads are pressed against the antennae's pads to make the connection.
The main wifi & GPS antenna, with copper pads to connect to the pins
U.FL connector, normally used for antenna connection
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
NOW here is the Original Prime teardown and type of connection
http://m.techrepublic.com/photos/cr...-transformer-tf101/6270147?seq=53#photo-frame
OG Transformer teardown pix
NOW HERE IS THE KICKER
clenz said:
that GPS/Wifi connection looks like a soldered wire and not pogo pin to me!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WHO said copy n paste n select text doesn't work well on the Prime? Lol I did this all from the Prime itself from various threads.
Extremely interesting. Im definitely returning my GPS-less prime now. Smh
G-Tab 10.1 Wi-Fi antenna connection...
The Wi-Fi chip's on the reverse side of the PCB.
Wi-Fi/BT/FM radio combo chip is in the upper right.
Damn, I thought they used pogopins for just the GPS. Now I just found out they use them for the Wifi too! OUCH! Bad idea. A soldered wire would have been %100 much better, but I'm so afraid now to return my tablet to Asus from hearing the horror stories.
opentoe said:
Damn, I thought they used pogopins for just the GPS. Now I just found out they use them for the Wifi too! OUCH! Bad idea. A soldered wire would have been %100 much better, but I'm so afraid now to return my tablet to Asus from hearing the horror stories.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know right...lol ya damned if you do, damned if you don't ...
Just got PM a lil while ago from Gary n response to the thread n possible pogo pin issue. He said this is something the Engineers are looking very closely at on units being returned to be looked at or repaired. SO things are moving right along. FOUND OUT ALSO my serial number that starts with BCOKA is actually from an early batch that I guess had the older hardware. Engineer or Service person supposed to call within next 48hrs. They are going down the list of people that Gary got serial number, email, and phone number info from. I guess it must be a big list...lmao
SO if I do have to send it in, then they will be adding the new hardware it and hopefully changing those pogo pin connections to soldered ones..lol
Ill know more details once I get their phone call. If I do have to send in, I hope they don't wipe everything as I have around 150-200 apps n games. Things customized n all that. Ill take the new hardware though n hopefully won't go thru the horror stories I've been hearing about on returns. OR ill like it better if they just sent me a brand new tablet with the latest n greatest hardware changes on it then I send mines to them. So it'll give me time to transfer things to new device if need be.
I HAVE AN APP on my Ipad called applist that will list every app you have installed and allow you to email the list to yourself. Does android have anything like this?
Wow. I think we can all agree that Asus dropped the ball in so many areas with the TF201. Who the hell wants to put up with this nonsense???
If only Motorola would build a tablet with a docking clamshell keyboard they could probably take 80% of would be Transformer customers. I'd be first in line.
But what could be the reason ASUS changed to use this pogo pin?
Weight? Cost? ... Sabotage? ... I simly dont understand the engineering thought of it.
racerex said:
Wow. I think we can all agree that Asus dropped the ball in so many areas with the TF201. Who the hell wants to put up with this nonsense???
If only Motorola would build a tablet with a docking clamshell keyboard they could probably take 80% of would be Transformer customers. I'd be first in line.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It would take alot more than that for Motorola to come up n take Asus customers. The xoom, first HC tablet, was a complete flop. Plus Motorola known for locking their systems down, at least initially. MOTOROLA IS NOT too popular of a brand these days, at least tablet wise.
demandarin said:
Just got PM a lil while ago from Gary n response to the thread n possible pogo pin issue. He said this is something the Engineers are looking very closely at on units being returned to be looked at or repaired. SO things are moving right along. FOUND OUT ALSO my serial number that starts with BCOKA is actually from an early batch that I guess had the older hardware. Engineer or Service person supposed to call within next 48hrs. They are going down the list of people that Gary got serial number, email, and phone number info from. I guess it must be a big list...lmao
SO if I do have to send it in, then they will be adding the new hardware it and hopefully changing those pogo pin connections to soldered ones..lol
Ill know more details once I get their phone call. If I do have to send in, I hope they don't wipe everything as I have around 150-200 apps n games. Things customized n all that. Ill take the new hardware though n hopefully won't go thru the horror stories I've been hearing about on returns. OR ill like it better if they just sent me a brand new tablet with the latest n greatest hardware changes on it then I send mines to them. So it'll give me time to transfer things to new device if need be.
I HAVE AN APP on my Ipad called applist that will list every app you have installed and allow you to email the list to yourself. Does android have anything like this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good to know BCOKA is from an older batch, have such a unit as well and very crappy GPS and also suffer from mediocre wifi combined with bluetooth degradation.
Also contacted Gary and will keep an eye out for any developments (live in EUrope though).
The majority of Prime users don't root or flash their tablets. Maybe the majority on this site but not the majority of the total users. So I doubt that will dictate the winners in this market.
Secondly, you can't debate that Motorola's hardware prowess is vastly superior to Asus. And definitely good enough not to pull these bone head mistakes that Asus keeps rolling out one after another.
The Xoom wasn't the sexiest by any means but it was solid as a rock functionality wise. Now with the Xyboard and their follow on products improving in the looks department I really do think they could take would-be Transformer customers if they would just offer a keyboard dock.
And if you're wondering the reason I'm not getting a Galaxy tablet, the reason is because their RF electronic know-how is not too much better that Asus's. I gotta say though that at least Samsung had the intelligence not to seal their RF electronics in a Faraday cage. LOL.
Related
Guys i pre-ordered a TFPrime from amazon UK and will be getting it shortly (12-Jan). However after watching a few reviews, etc, I noticed the Wifi / GPS seems really buggy which could be a deal breaker for me. Can anyone share their experiences? Any workaround?
Wifi Issues: youtube.com/watch?v=nzCZc3pjtrA
GPS Issues: youtube.com/watch?v=YeiOh09v54I
dereking said:
Guys i pre-ordered a TFPrime from amazon UK and will be getting it shortly (12-Jan). However after watching a few reviews, etc, I noticed the Wifi / GPS seems really buggy which could be a deal breaker for me. Can anyone share their experiences? Any workaround?
Wifi Issues: youtube.com/watch?v=nzCZc3pjtrA
GPS Issues: youtube.com/watch?v=YeiOh09v54I
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really?
You can't spit in any direction on this forum without hitting a thread that talks about these issues...why do you need yet another thread? A solution to these, if they are deal breakers for you, is to not buy the Prime.
Yep i guess your post signature leaves it clear... "Asus Transformer Prime (Waiting on a replacement) "
Wifi seems to be fine GPS is wacky but will get fixed
Yes wifi and gps have issues. Be careful about saying anything bad about the Prime in these forums.
A lot of town criers...
The WiFi is working fine, at least with mine anyways. GPS is still broken, but I have faith in ASUS that they'll come up with a fix.
You guys are killing me with this. I was hell bent on purchasing a Prime & Keyboard as soon as stock arrived. I checked all the reviews. I knew about it's pros & it's cons. I was sold. It was just a fluke that I wound up searching about the Prime's GPS accuracy and all of the BS ASUS has been covering up surfaced.
I'm not going to drop nearly $700 on a fancy toy if:
1. WiFi sucks. Especially on a portable device. That simply makes no sense.
2. GPS doesn't work. --I go to UC, so this bad boy needs to be LoJacked. I've seen too many laptops & tablets "walk off and disappear" during lecture.
3. Paying $700 for anything that doesn't have all of it's features intact is a non-starter.
ASUS makes great video cards & motherboards. But they need to get their sh*t together on this device if they plan to stay in tablet game.
Not gonna lie. I got my prime last week thru BB pre order and my GPS and wifi are working great! Not sure why other people $are having issues with this.
Early models did have hardware issues. (especially with wifi)
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1394611
This is one reason why you don't want to rush to get one.
A lot of people will state that their wifi and gps is working just fine, but they dont really know any better...
Wifi works but its got a very slow upload and download speed. They may be thinking GPS works but not realize they are using wifi location.
But yes on every unit regardless of what others may say. Wifi does not work as good as it should and GPS doesn't work at all.
And if it is any indication...
TF101 shipped with screen bleed & loose casing defects, to this very day Asus has not bothered to fix the issue.
jzen said:
A lot of people will state that their wifi and gps is working just fine, but they dont really know any better...
Wifi works but its got a very slow upload and download speed. They may be thinking GPS works but not realize they are using wifi location.
But yes on every unit regardless of what others may say. Wifi does not work as good as it should and GPS doesn't work at all.
And if it is any indication...
TF101 shipped with screen bleed & loose casing defects, to this very day Asus has not bothered to fix the issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is with bad Internet aka not what I normally use. Through a few walls about 30 from the really crappy router at my mom's house.
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I would say my wifi is fine. GPS is useless though. Don't say people don't know what they are talking about when you don't know them.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium
jzen said:
A lot of people will state that their wifi and gps is working just fine, but they dont really know any better...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With so many people reporting problems with GPS and WiFi strength it's become almost a complete certainty that these devices are suffering from some sort of severe design flaw.
I wasn't on the design team for this device, so take anything I say with a grain of salt, but I am quite savvy as an engineer so I'll drop my 2 cents on this issue.
From my standpoint it's appears to be DEFINITELY the aluminum chassis. Aluminum is quite good at reflecting/bouncing RF signals at a focal point (receiver). When crafted correctly, aluminum is great at bouncing rf signals. When used incorrectly, aluminum is great at dispersing and blocking rf signals.
However, as frequency increases, so does penetration. This is most likely why people have been able to notice relatively normal WiFi strengths. Even at wireless-g speeds they're operating at as low as 2.4GHz and up to 5GHz. However CIV GPS operate at around 1.1GHz. In this case, the aluminum shell has turned the GPS unit's "moderate voice" into a "whimper" when it attempts to lock & fix on satellites. -- Think tin foil hats, but for your GPS & WiFi
I also believe ASUS outfitted the Prime with 2 WiFi antennas whereas I believe the GPS only has a single antenna. I won't speak for ASUS's design decisions, but I wouldn't doubt they opted for 2 antennas to deal with the interference from the aluminum casing. However, that's simply my speculation. Why they botched this tablet so badly just to conform to a silly aesthetic design boggles my mind. As Spock would say, "their decisions were highly illogical."
jzen said:
And if it is any indication...
TF101 shipped with screen bleed & loose casing defects, to this very day Asus has not bothered to fix the issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They'd be wise to rethink that choice.
I'm right now wondering if WiFi on my TF101 is OK, because it doesn't get a lock i a room adjacent to the one with the router while laptop in the same place has 3 to 4 bars! So if people say their WiFi and GPS are fine take it with a grain of sand. It's not easy to check them properly in a short time.
don_cheadle said:
With so many people reporting problems with GPS and WiFi strength it's become almost a complete certainty that these devices are suffering from some sort of severe design flaw.
I wasn't on the design team for this device, so take anything I say with a grain of salt, but I am quite savvy as an engineer so I'll drop my 2 cents on this issue.
From my standpoint it's appears to be DEFINITELY the aluminum chassis. Aluminum is quite good at reflecting/bouncing RF signals at a focal point (receiver). When crafted correctly, aluminum is great at bouncing rf signals. When used incorrectly, aluminum is great at dispersing and blocking rf signals.
However, as frequency increases, so does penetration. This is most likely why people have been able to notice relatively normal WiFi strengths. Even at wireless-g speeds they're operating at as low as 2.4GHz and up to 5GHz. However CIV GPS operate at around 1.1GHz. In this case, the aluminum shell has turned the GPS unit's "moderate voice" into a "whimper" when it attempts to lock & fix on satellites. -- Think tin foil hats, but for your GPS & WiFi
I also believe ASUS outfitted the Prime with 2 WiFi antennas whereas I believe the GPS only has a single antenna. I won't speak for ASUS's design decisions, but I wouldn't doubt they opted for 2 antennas to deal with the interference from the aluminum casing. However, that's simply my speculation. Why they botched this tablet so badly just to conform to a silly aesthetic design boggles my mind. As Spock would say, "their decisions were highly illogical."
They'd be wise to rethink that choice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
An aluminium shell like on the Transformer can only distort the signals a bit but not completely block it (like many are experiencing with GPS). That is probably because of a manufacturing defect and not because of the aluminium shell.
WiFi on this device is fine. I get over 11 mbps speeds on a 15 mbps cable connection.
GPS also locks within a reasonable amount of time when view of sky is unobstructed.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium
flight777 said:
An aluminium shell like on the Transformer can only distort the signals a bit but not completely block it (like many are experiencing with GPS). That is probably because of a manufacturing defect and not because of the aluminium shell.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually aluminum can do quite a bit to obstruct an RF signal. Depending on thickness, resistance can be quite high. While I somewhat agree it shouldn't be able to block a strong signal, the major function of GPS is to "listen", not to "talk." What I'm trying to say, is it is not producing strong signals, it's trying to receive them, and it's ability to listen is only as good as the ability of such signals to penetrate whatever is obstructing them. In this case, it's Aluminum.. which has quite a high resistance to RF.
mrljt said:
WiFi on this device is fine. I get over 11 mbps speeds on a 15 mbps cable connection.
GPS also locks within a reasonable amount of time when view of sky is unobstructed.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
YOUR GPS also locks....
If you look at the poll in the GPS Problems thread you'll see that it's about 80 working GPSs to 50 non-working.
Just because yours locks, don't assume everyone else's does. Especially when there is a large amount of evidence to the contrary.
Col.Kernel said:
YOUR GPS also locks....
If you look at the poll in the GPS Problems thread you'll see that it's about 80 working GPSs to 50 non-working.
Just because yours locks, don't assume everyone else's does. Especially when there is a large amount of evidence to the contrary.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Got those numbers switched. It's around 50 working, and 80 not.
>However, as frequency increases, so does penetration
Higher frequency = shorter wavelength = less penetration. 5GHz wifi has shorter range than 2.4GHz wifi because it can't penetrate as well. Public hot spots only use 2.4GHz. More articulate explanations here. That wifi in the Prime is more functional than GPS is probably because wifi signals have more energy than the weak GPS signal.
I do agree that the Al shell is the main culprit, probably exacerbated by mediocre antenna design. I generally see better wireless performance from phone vendors (Moto, Samsung, HTC) than non-phone vendors (Acer, Asus).
>I'm right now wondering if WiFi on my TF101 is OK
Wifi on most mobiles will be less than that on laptops, because their antenna is usually much smaller and lacks diversity. Size isn't the only determinant in antenna gain, but it's a big determinant. Here are the GPS and wifi antennae on the OG Transformer.
Here is one (of many possible) design for laptop dual diversity antenna
You're right. I got the 2 switched. I distinctly remember writing that on the top of my cheat sheet in Phys. I'm sorry it's 2 am, and I can't brain.
Anyway, as for the signal strength, that's what I was saying earlier. I assume when you take into account considerable distances, even though routers are usually only pumping out around 250ma per antenna, they probably still yield much better signal strength than GPS satellites after the signal has reached the ground.
However aside from ASUS simply not attaching an antenna to GPS mod, it really can only be the aluminum shell creating such resistance. And the fact it seems to affect WiFi as well, although to a lesser degree, means it's most likely not a symptom faulty workmanship on part of the internals.
But as mentioned in other threads, it would be nice if someone tore the aluminum backing off of their brand new Prime to see if it's the real culprit.
I have had my Prime for a week now and it was working perfectly. I got the ICS update and everything was working even better. I never had any wifi connection issues. Today the prime will suddenly no longer connect to wifi. It appears to not be picking up the wifi signals anymore. When it does manage to pick up a signal it shows up as a small dot and still can't connect. It wouldn't connect at work this morning and when I came home it connected for about a minute and then dropped connection and would not connect again. I rebooted several times, tried a hard reset and then finally resorted to a factory reset. It still did no good. My unit was previously picking up my wifi signals with full strength usually and sometimes 3 bars. Not sure what happened but I guess I'll just take it back to Office Depot for a refund while I still have time. Not sure what I'll do now because i REALLY liked the prime during the time that it was working right.
If you're under warranty Asus will tell you to return it for a fix and hopefully their turnaround time is measured in days, not weeks or months. Sorry for you, it seems the Prime is not as durable as I thought, poor quality control is probably the culprit.
I would go the repair route but I'm kind of afraid that I'll then get stuck with it if they can't fix it and I've missed my return window at office depot. The bad thing is that there is no other tablet that I'd be satisfied with now that I've experienced how smoothly the quad core tegra 3 Prime runs. I had a Xoom before the Prime and I gave it to my fiancee after the Prime arrived. I really liked my Xoom too but the Prime is a MUCH BETTER device (when it worked).
fella1 said:
I have had my Prime for a week now and it was working perfectly. I got the ICS update and everything was working even better. I never had any wifi connection issues. Today the prime will suddenly no longer connect to wifi. It appears to not be picking up the wifi signals anymore. When it does manage to pick up a signal it shows up as a small dot and still can't connect. It wouldn't connect at work this morning and when I came home it connected for about a minute and then dropped connection and would not connect again. I rebooted several times, tried a hard reset and then finally resorted to a factory reset. It still did no good. My unit was previously picking up my wifi signals with full strength usually and sometimes 3 bars. Not sure what happened but I guess I'll just take it back to Office Depot for a refund while I still have time. Not sure what I'll do now because i REALLY liked the prime during the time that it was working right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haven't heard of this issue yet, that is a new one. If you are in warranty, take it back and get a full refund or a replacement. If not, contact Asus.
However, good luck with contacting Asus and getting a timely response. I am on day 3 of just waiting for a return email. I did it through their own messaging service on their site, not regular email. I would appreciate someone responding to my simple questions, but they must not have the time right now.
3rdamention said:
Haven't heard of this issue yet, that is a new one. If you are in warranty, take it back and get a full refund or a replacement. If not, contact Asus.
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know that is why I was so shocked when it happened this morning at work. I was hoping that it was just something going on with the wifi connection at my office. I now that there are Primes with bad wifi out there but mine doesn't just have a bad connection now, it can't connect at all. I figured that I had been lucky enough to get one of the good units considering how incredibly well it had worked over the past week. At least I've only had it for seven days so I can still return it to Office Depot. I just hate the thought of being tabletless now. Guess I gave my Xoom to my fiancee a little too fast.
Well my prime got to the point where it would connect when I was next to the router but would either drop out or lose signal strength when I moved away. I have scheduled for a return to office depot. Yesterday I found another prime in stock at hh gregg so I picked it up. This one once again has excellent wifi service just like my first one did for awhile. I am hoping that this one keeps it. I still can't understand what happened to my first one. The only thing that I had done before the wifi crapped out was install a memory card and I don't see how that could have had anything to do with it. This experience has shown me though that the prime is definitely capable of giving good wifi service and that there is something going on other than the aluminum backplate. Having seen both sides of it I can see why no one would be satisfied with the wifi performance it had when it went bad on my first one. Maybe it is a mechanical issue with the wifi antenna connections coming loose in the system? I don't know how likely that is but it is the only thing I can think of based on my experiences with the issue
It very well could be the antenna wires are coming undone from the Wi-Fi adapter it would allow you to connect right next to a router but not much further away.
Sorry to ask the obvious, but did you power down your Prime before starting again to see if the problem was still there. I'm sure this was the first thing you did, but just checking.
The wifi on my Prime cut off last night but it came back after a quick reset (holding down the power button for 13 seconds or so).
Yes I powered down, tried a hard reset and finally tried a factory reset and none of that helped with the problem. It was a complete night and day difference in performance that was quite shocking. As I said if people are experiencing that kind of performance from the beginning then I can totally understand the complaints. So far the new unit is having the same great performance as my other one had at first.
From looking at the Prime teardown, your wifi loss may be due to a loose connection. Instead of running a pigtail directly from the chip lead-out to the antenna, the Prime uses spring-loaded pogo pins (1st pic) as intermediate connectors.
Second pic shows the pogo pins for the main wifi and GPS antennae. The spring-loaded pins are pressed against the copper pads of the respective antenna (3rd pic). Suffice it to say, this isn't the most secure way to connect the antennae.
Aside from possible broken or intermittent connection, it also looks like a high-loss connection, and could contribute to attenuated signal reception. My guess is that this may be the main culprit of wifi/GPS woes, with the metal shell being a contributing factor.
The 4th pic below is a U.FL connector that's normally used for antenna pigtails. The lip has an outer overhang for a secure connection.
My guess is that the tablet was bumped and something shifted a bit, breaking the antenna connection.
This is FYI only, as the unit isn't user-serviceable. It does look like a simple fix, but you'd have to open the unit. Edit: You can try smacking the top edge of the tablet a few times and see if it will jar back into place. Worth a try.
Pogo pins used as intermediate connectors for wifi & GPS antennae
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The two pogo pins for main wifi and GPS. The spring-loaded heads are pressed against the antennae's pads to make the connection.
The main wifi & GPS antenna, with copper pads to connect to the pins
U.FL connector, normally used for antenna connection
e.mote;21489600
My guess is that the tablet was bumped and something shifted a bit said:
NICE
Heck yea it's worth a try!
And to the OP - since it only just happened today, I think I would wait a day or two to see what else might develop. I know you've tested it out in two different places, but it came on so suddenly, maybe (hopefully ) it will go away?
Unless of course waiting a day or seeing what might be different tomorrow would interfere with an exchange or return policy. If you are still within a window and are out of time soon, then you gotta do what you gotta do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
e.mote said:
From looking at the Prime teardown, your wifi loss may be due to a loose connection. Instead of running a pigtail directly from the chip lead-out to the antenna, the Prime uses spring-loaded pogo pins (1st pic) as intermediate connectors.
Second pic shows the pogo pins for the main wifi and GPS antennae. The spring-loaded pins are pressed against the copper pads of the respective antenna (3rd pic). Suffice it to say, this isn't the most secure way to connect the antennae.
Aside from possible broken or intermittent connection, it also looks like a high-loss connection, and could contribute to attenuated signal reception. My guess is that this may be the main culprit of wifi/GPS woes, with the metal shell being a contributing factor.
The 4th pic below is a U.FL connector that's normally used for antenna pigtails. The lip has an outer overhang for a secure connection.
My guess is that the tablet was bumped and something shifted a bit, breaking the antenna connection.
This is FYI only, as the unit isn't user-serviceable. It does look like a simple fix, but you'd have to open the unit. Edit: You can try smacking the top edge of the tablet a few times and see if it will jar back into place. Worth a try.
Pogo pins used as intermediate connectors for wifi & GPS antennae
The two pogo pins for main wifi and GPS. The spring-loaded heads are pressed against the antennae's pads to make the connection.
The main wifi & GPS antenna, with copper pads to connect to the pins
U.FL connector, normally used for antenna connection
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
very interesting info as some users have flexed device in that area n now supposedly have good wifi n GPS now. this will affect the signal strength more tthan the backplate.
e.mote said:
This is FYI only, as the unit isn't user-serviceable. It does look like a simple fix, but you'd have to open the unit. Edit: You can try smacking the top edge of the tablet a few times and see if it will jar back into place. Worth a try.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Before packaging my Prime up to be sent to ASUS for RMA. I did exactly that, I did the black part of the screen at the top with my kunckles kind of hard a few times.
My signal went from 35-40% where I was sitting at to around almost 70%.
demandarin said:
very interesting info as some users have flexed device in that area n now supposedly have good wifi n GPS now. this will affect the signal strength more tthan the backplate.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You really can't use terms like "good" and "more" beacause they're all relative. "Good" compared to what Wi-Fi/GPS is with other devices or against other Prime's? And until it's known for sure that all devices are suffering some type of signal issue saying the unproven pogo pin expose is "more" or less an issue than anything else is premature. It's impossible to compare Wi-Fi performance on a forum because each testing condition is different and there's no baseline to have a common discussion around. To see if there's differences between Prime's a couple of them need to be tested side-by-side at the same time.
hang in there demadarin - I think Barry is weakening and we will eventually convince him there are potential issues beyond the back plate.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
clenz said:
hang in there demadarin - I think Barry is weakening and we will eventually convince him there are potential issues beyond the back plate.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm like Spock on Star Trek - it's all about logic. It seems more and more people are having their signal change when squeezing above where the antennas are. That certainly points to a common issue. But even the hand-picked Prime Asus sent to Anand to replace his defective sample still peformed poorly against the TF1. So the metal back cover's not an innocent victim (yet).
BarryH_GEG said:
I'm like Spock on Star Trek - it's all about logic. It seems more and more people are having their signal change when squeezing above where the antennas are. That certainly points to a common issue. But even the hand-picked Prime Asus sent to Anand to replace his defective sample still peformed poorly against the TF1. So the metal back cover's not an innocent victim (yet).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With one minor difference, Anandtech never flexed his Prime. You couldn't blame the pogos so the backplate took the hit.
---------- Post added at 04:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:07 PM ----------
I mean he couldn't blame the ...
tedr44 said:
With one minor difference, Anandtech never flexed his Prime. You couldn't blame the pogos so the backplate took the hit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look at it this way, when Apple move the antenna from behind a plastic disk on the iPad1 to behind a metal speaker grill on the iPad2, performance took a hit. The Prime has no opening at all for a signal to travel through and Asus makes less in a year than Apple spends on R&D. Ergo, the metal back cover is and will remain a factor.
BarryH_GEG said:
Look at it this way, when Apple move the antenna from behind a plastic disk on the iPad1 to behind a metal speaker grill on the iPad2, performance took a hit. The Prime has no opening at all for a signal to travel through and Asus makes less in a year than Apple spends on R&D. Ergo, the metal back cover is and will remain a factor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, but by how much in comparison to a tarnished pogo contact? And as time goes by, the influence of the latter will be increasingly pronounced. BTW, the TF101 does not use the pogos, the antennas are hardwired. I also noticed that the mainframe is made of solid aluminum and yet the 101 has never had any rf problems like the Prime.
With users experiencing sudden change in signal level after making good contact with the antenna, I'd say the evidence of inconsistency in performance is pretty convincing as to the real cause of the fault.
BarryH_GEG said:
You really can't use terms like "good" and "more" beacause they're all relative. "Good" compared to what Wi-Fi/GPS is with other devices or against other Prime's? And until it's known for sure that all devices are suffering some type of signal issue saying the unproven pogo pin expose is "more" or less an issue than anything else is premature. It's impossible to compare Wi-Fi performance on a forum because each testing condition is different and there's no baseline to have a common discussion around. To see if there's differences between Prime's a couple of them need to be tested side-by-side at the same time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, I understand what you saying
clenz said:
hang in there demadarin - I think Barry is weakening and we will eventually convince him there are potential issues beyond the back plate.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Check the other thread, I think GPS contacts thread n you will see him cracking under the pressure..lol. he finally said he is starting to agree.
BarryH_GEG said:
I'm like Spock on Star Trek - it's all about logic. It seems more and more people are having their signal change when squeezing above where the antennas are. That certainly points to a common issue. But even the hand-picked Prime Asus sent to Anand to replace his defective sample still peformed poorly against the TF1. So the metal back cover's not an innocent victim (yet).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
EVEN Spock went postal when he realized humans are a complex being n that not all things obvious are always the truth. That some things cant be explained by facts alone. As there could always be contributing factors. Spock was like Data, from the next generation. Even Data was Assimilated..lmfao. my father loved that show.
Off topic..but did you know the guy who played luetenant worf wanted to originally be the Captain? They denied him the part over Picard or whatever his real name was. I still laughed knowing the guy who played Jordi was the guy from reading rainbow.
---------- Post added at 08:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:26 PM ----------
BarryH_GEG said:
I'm like Spock on Star Trek - it's all about logic. It seems more and more people are having their signal change when squeezing above where the antennas are. That certainly points to a common issue. But even the hand-picked Prime Asus sent to Anand to replace his defective sample still peformed poorly against the TF1. So the metal back cover's not an innocent victim (yet).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correction needed here. Anandtech last tablet test held prime wifi on par with tf-101. Then he also said range "Might" be an issue. He never said Prime wifi performed badly after his last test.
Nice try trying to sneak that one past me we all guilty of loving to pick n choose info relevant to what we want to prove..lol
I have confirmed that there are very significant variances in the hardware that is causing GPS problems. As I reported in a thread earlier this week, I received a new 64GB model from Amazon a few days ago that had completely dead GPS functionality. Even outside under clear skies, it never picked up even a single satellite. Thankfully, Amazon has amazing customer service and received more stock yesterday. They overnighted me a replacement unit that arrived this morning. Thankfully, since they forward ship replacements I could compare the old and new models side-by-side and decide which one was more broken (I was terrified that the replacement would have dead WiFi, backlight bleed-through, dead-pixels, or one of the other myriad hardware problem that people report. Luckily, its perfect).
The first thing I did (before running ANY firmware updates) was to install the GPS Test app. Within 30 seconds on a cold boot, it had a position fix sitting in the middle of my living room. I then proceeded to install all firmware/ICS updates up to the latest, and it is still completely functional. Granted, the signal-to-noise ratio is not awesome (its no Garmin), but it is definitely a functional GPS. In short, if you get a new TF201 be sure to test the GPS immediately so that you can return it right away and DON'T SETTLE for a broken one.
Here are screenshots from both of my units, good and bad. They were sitting side-by-side in the middle of the first floor of a two-story house. Both units are C1OKAS serial numbers and all firmware revisions are identical at the time of the tests. Bad serial number is 0056xx, good is 0171xx. Perhaps they found a manufacturing problem and fixed it in later batches.
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Also, I put in a tech support ticket with Asus for the GPS issue the day I got the TF201 earlier this week and they never bother even replying to me. This company has a support problem (I'm preaching to the choir here...).
cmccracken said:
I have confirmed that there are very significant variances in the hardware that is causing GPS problems. As I reported in a thread earlier this week, I received a new 64GB model from Amazon a few days ago that had completely dead GPS functionality. Even outside under clear skies, it never picked up even a single satellite. Thankfully, Amazon has amazing customer service and received more stock yesterday. They overnighted me a replacement unit that arrived this morning. Thankfully, since they forward ship replacements I could compare the old and new models side-by-side and decide which one was more broken (I was terrified that the replacement would have dead WiFi, backlight bleed-through, dead-pixels, or one of the other myriad hardware problem that people report. Luckily, its perfect).
The first thing I did (before running ANY firmware updates) was to install the GPS Test app. Within 30 seconds on a cold boot, it had a position fix sitting in the middle of my living room. I then proceeded to install all firmware/ICS updates up to the latest, and it is still completely functional. Granted, the signal-to-noise ratio is not awesome (its no Garmin), but it is definitely a functional GPS. In short, if you get a new TF201 be sure to test the GPS immediately so that you can return it right away and DON'T SETTLE for a broken one.
Here are screenshots from both of my units, good and bad. They were sitting side-by-side in the middle of the first floor of a two-story house. Both units are C1OKAS serial numbers and all firmware revisions are identical at the time of the tests. Bad serial number is 0056xx, good is 0171xx. Perhaps they found a manufacturing problem and fixed it in later batches.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It has nothing to do with the metal case, that's for sure. However, one pogo pin contact could be bad while another fully closed and functional. If it works don't flex it!
tedr44 said:
It has nothing to do with the metal case, that's for sure. However, one pogo pin contact could be bad while another fully closed and functional. If it works don't flex it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've flexed it and it still works 100%. I'm still in my return window, want to be sure its ok before I commit.
cmccracken said:
I've flexed it and it still works 100%. I'm still in my return window, want to be sure its ok before I commit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well lucky you, you've got a winner!
Mine is C1OKAS 026XXX which would put it after the 0171XX batch (and thus, updated GPS?), but GPS does not get any signal (at least, with Wifi turned on and without the .11 firmware update, which I can't get yet due to the serial number missing issue).
Squeezing does not do anything for GPS or Wifi reception.
Once the .11 update becomes available on the website I will try again.
Sjaakbanaan said:
Mine is C1OKAS 026XXX which would put it after the 0171XX batch (and thus, updated GPS?), but GPS does not get any signal (at least, with Wifi turned on and without the .11 firmware update, which I can't get yet due to the serial number missing issue).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm, well so much for them working out the manufacturing bugs. I've seen no evidence that any of the firmware updates changed the GPS performance one way or another. If its not working at all out of the box, its not going to work without hardware repair.
Nice comparison. I started a thread to try to track down the differences between the models to see if a common link in GPS performance could be found. Sadly it was sabotaged by some of the brain dead morons on this forum bleating the Asus "aluminum case" line!
Well the evidence is building.
Took mine into the local service centre for a new screen. Nil spares here. So holding onto unit until spares arrive next week & they will repair the GPS at the same time.
Nice to see Amazon on to it.
I have a handful of screen shots from January 14th when I was finally able to get gps signal inside the apartment, never very far from a window, some with wifi on, some with wifi off. I was getting locks of up to 9 satellites. But after the latest update I don't get anything. I can't lock onto to any satellites inside the apartment anymore at all, and I'm only 5 feet away from a window with wifi on. And do you have to calibrate your compass every time you move locations with your Prime? I Mine is aways wrong every time I take it anywhere.
I am totally inclined to believe it is hardware related but don't understand why mine was moderately OK and now crap.
mile high said:
Nice comparison. I started a thread to try to track down the differences between the models to see if a common link in GPS performance could be found. Sadly it was sabotaged by some of the brain dead morons on this forum bleating the Asus "aluminum case" line!
Well the evidence is building.
Took mine into the local service centre for a new screen. Nil spares here. So holding onto unit until spares arrive next week & they will repair the GPS at the same time.
Nice to see Amazon on to it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, its sad some people are so closed minded to other possibilities even when there's evidence to pointing other ways. Plus Asus only said the aluminum case is a possibility, not the only reason. That's where I think some people are stuck on that.
I have two Primes sitting in front of me, as such:
#1: Great screen. The best I've seen yet (and I've had 6), demonstrating some wide variability in screen quality (temperature, colors, text) across units. The temperature on this one is perfect (makes whites the truest), colors are deep and excellent, details pop out, and text is awesome. However, it has one stuck pixel that's only obvious on dark screens and high brightness and the speakers have a TINY bit of vibration at highest volume on some songs. Haptic feedback is the best I've had so far.
However, GPS on it is horrible. After giving it as much as 30 minutes to lock on, the best I've gotten is 5/10 satellites locked. Wifi also seems a bit weaker.
#2: Good screen. Better than the one I'm returning to HH Gregg, which had a horrible yellow cast, terrible colors, and pixellated text. This screen is better, but not as good as #1--a touch more yellow, and not as much detail in complex images. Text is okay but not as good as #1. No stuck pixels, but a little bit of light bleed that's visible on dark screens and high brightness. Audio is fine. Haptic feedback doesn't work.
However, GPS on it is excellent. In about a minute, it locks on to as many as 12/14 satellites. It also locks indoors (within a 5 feet of a glass patio door). Wifi also seems little stronger.
So, this is what is driving me nutty. There's WAY too much hardware variation among these things. I love the damn tablet as well--I can read it outside on my porch in direct SoCal sun, which is very important to me. My OG Transformer was very nice, but I couldn't read it outdoors worth a damn.
So, ASUS, what am I supposed to do, eh? Accept a bit worse screen to have better radio performance, or accept a bit worse wifi and terrible GPS to have the best screen? Or, keep trying to get a "perfect" unit?
I'm honestly tempted to just keep buying and returning units until I get one I'm happy with. Perhaps that's a way to flush defective units out of the system and communicate to ASUS that they have some problems that need fixing. I've been a solid supporter of ASUS, but after having 6 units in my hands that all have some significant issue or another, my support is starting to waver.
My gps worked fine outside prior to the last update. I could pick up around 15 sats and get a lock. Now i get nothing. Asus can blame it on the metal all they want but i know the last update screwed it up for me.
krispy521 said:
My gps worked fine outside prior to the last update. I could pick up around 15 sats and get a lock. Now i get nothing. Asus can blame it on the metal all they want but i know the last update screwed it up for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd love to think it was just the update, but having two otherwise identical systems, 1 with working gps and 1 without, makes me doubt it.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
Wait, why would a wifi only tablet even need gps? Even when on a tether, you could just use your android or (dare I say it??) iphone's gps.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium
wynand32 said:
I'd love to think it was just the update, but having two otherwise identical systems, 1 with working gps and 1 without, makes me doubt it.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I ran gps test prior to the last update. Got sats. I didnt even move the device. I then did the update. Then i ran gps test and got nothing. They killed it. Yes the back plate weakens the signal, but asus killed it in the last update. Same exact thing hppened to my dads.
jdeoxys said:
Wait, why would a wifi only tablet even need gps? Even when on a tether, you could just use your android or (dare I say it??) iphone's gps.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gps is used by several apps to find location. I have no need to use the tablet as a nav device, but the idea of a component inside my $500 tablet not working really bugs me. Thats the point.
krispy521 said:
I ran gps test prior to the last update. Got sats. I didnt even move the device. I then did the update. Then i ran gps test and got nothing. They killed it. Yes the back plate weakens the signal, but asus killed it in the last update. Same exact thing hppened to my dads.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting. I have two BC units with the same hardware revision that have both been fully updated. One gets a very quick lock, one doesn't get a lock unless I let it sit for quite some time, at which point it gets only half the locks of the other one and they're fleeting. At first, I thought it wasn't getting a lock at at (because I hadn't given it enough time), and really it might as well not get any.
So, it must be that some units have hardware issues that the update reveals, while some don't. It can't be the update by itself, because some units work fine with it applied.
I'd love to think that there's something in the last update that caused some systems to lose GPS, because then there'd be hope that this one with the great screen could see its GPS fixed. I'm just not sure of it, however.
wynand32 said:
Interesting. I have two BC units with the same hardware revision that have both been fully updated. One gets a very quick lock, one doesn't get a lock unless I let it sit for quite some time, at which point it gets only half the locks of the other one and they're fleeting. At first, I thought it wasn't getting a lock at at (because I hadn't given it enough time), and really it might as well not get any.
So, it must be that some units have hardware issues that the update reveals, while some don't. It can't be the update by itself, because some units work fine with it applied.
I'd love to think that there's something in the last update that caused some systems to lose GPS, because then there'd be hope that this one with the great screen could see its GPS fixed. I'm just not sure of it, however.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you tried pinching the "weaker" GPS unit, near the top center (in landscaper mod), near the cameras. There is supposed to be a GPS pogo pin there, and some may have loose connection. There are other threads talking more about the pogo pins.
So going by the op's story, the availability problem is also being caused by all the unsatisfied buyers that are getting immediate replacements for their broken units. Which I am inclined to be ok with. Hopefully, when mine ships on 2/9 (hopefully) it will be a newer problem free model.
Ride525 said:
Have you tried pinching the "weaker" GPS unit, near the top center (in landscaper mod), near the cameras. There is supposed to be a GPS pogo pin there, and some may have loose connection. There are other threads talking more about the pogo pins.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've had success squeezing maybe half an inch off center toward the power button along the top. I have to squeeze very hard though, hard enough that you see the "squishing LCD" type effect, and even then it only works (as in it normally sees no satellites anywhere) for maybe ten minutes and only with an absolutely unobstructed view of the sky (even a couple bare branches will cut the visible satellites in half).
I badly want to replace it, but Amazon will only let me return since the 32g gray is out of stock. My exchange window is until the end of February, so hopefully I don't have to just give up and return it.
This stupid tablet has been so much trouble...
Does the aluminum case affect your WiFi?
Here's a simple test. Run WiFi Analyzer.
1. Hold your Prime with the aluminum back towards the router. Take note of the WiFi Analyzer's meter reading.
2. Hold your Prime with the glass front facing the router. Take note of your reading.
My Prime consistently gets weaker signal with the aluminum back towards the router compared when the glass front is towards the router. (The Prime is about 10dBm weaker signal with the back pointing toward the router, compared to when the front is.)
Try this, what is your difference?
Unfortunately it does affect my WiFi. The range of my router reaches half way down my street. My M18x, iPad 2, Japanese PS Vita and iPhone 4S can reach my router 5 houses down at my friend's place. My TF201 can't even make it out of my living room.
skygunner27 said:
Unfortunately it does affect my WiFi. The range of my router reaches half way down my street. My M18x, iPad 2, Japanese PS Vita and iPhone 4S can reach my router 5 houses down at my friend's place. My TF201 can't even make it out of my living room.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, but is that due to the metal back, or the pogo pins?
Do what the OP said to find out.
Col.Kernel said:
Yes, but is that due to the metal back, or the pogo pins?
Do what the OP said to find out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most likely a combination of both defects.
skygunner27 said:
Most likely a combination of both defects.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
<sigh> Look, I'm not trying to be a horses backside here, but you can't prove jack. The OP, if they are asking for anything, is asking for facts. You keep supplying opinions.
Do the test, or don't post. That's the only proof you have. Or propose a different test.
Your posts in this thread so far are like all the Prime owners who swear their GPS is fine, but when you ask they don't use it and haven't tested it.
Col.Kernel said:
<sigh> Look, I'm not trying to be a horses backside here, but you can't prove jack. The OP, if they are asking for anything, is asking for facts. You keep supplying opinions.
Do the test, or don't post. That's the only proof you have. Or propose a different test.
Your posts in this thread so far are like all the Prime owners who swear their GPS is fine, but when you ask they don't use it and haven't tested it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who are you to question me lol....First off my GPS is PERFECT! It even works from my bedroom. Of course I performed the test!! The OP mentioned his discovery in a different thread. Go troll somewhere else.
I'm starting to believe that you don't own a Prime. Post some pics along with both boxes and a piece of paper with your handle over the top of your Primes box. Make sure I can see the box. Hurry I don't have all nite.
Here it comes you are about to get owned...
skygunner27 said:
To be honest I have one of the best Primes. But it's still not good enough.
Here are some pics showing GPS from my bedroom and to validate that I actually own a Prime and am not trolling. My Prime has better GPS than WiFi!! Go Figure!! If I'm outside I have 13 satelites all in the green at the least.
WiFi Disabled
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WiFi Enabled
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Col.Kernel said:
<sigh> Look, I'm not trying to be a horses backside here, but you can't prove jack. The OP, if they are asking for anything, is asking for facts. You keep supplying opinions.
Do the test, or don't post. That's the only proof you have. Or propose a different test.
Your posts in this thread so far are like all the Prime owners who swear their GPS is fine, but when you ask they don't use it and haven't tested it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He is right though. Proving that the aluminum back interferes with wifi does not disprove that the login pins are an issue with signal strength. Nor would this test provide enough quantitative data to compare potential problems. A single test without equipment or a control (basis for comparison) is not meaningful.
I do not believe it is in dispute that the aluminum back will to some degree interfere with wifi and GPS signal strength. Perhaps a better question is to what extent does the back interfere and to what extent does the pogo pin. Then you can combine the two to better understand where the faults in signal strength lie and why.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
JanetPanic said:
He is right though. Proving that the aluminum back interferes with wifi does not disprove that the login pins are an issue with signal strength. Nor would this test provide enough quantitative data to compare potential problems. A single test without equipment or a control (basis for comparison) is not meaningful.
I do not believe it is in dispute that the aluminum back will to some degree interfere with wifi and GPS signal strength. Perhaps a better question is to what extent does the back interfere and to what extent does the pogo pin. Then you can combine the two to better understand where the faults in signal strength lie and why.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Instead of talking about how to word the test. Lets get a standard agreed on and written in stone so we can move on. The sooner we understand what's really happening here the better off we'll be. Believe it or not we are all on the same team with the same common goals. Some people have problems with GPS, I have proven I do not. Even so, it still is a problem that needs to be addressed since it was deviously removed from Asus's website and continues to be printed on the box.
You forgot to mention that he got owned on the "Your posts in this thread so far are like all the Prime owners who swear their GPS is fine" post. and that I was right.
---------- Post added at 02:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:00 AM ----------
skygunner27 said:
Who are you to question me lol....First off my GPS is PERFECT! It even works from my bedroom. Of course I performed the test!! The OP mentioned his discovery in a different thread. Go troll somewhere else.
I'm starting to believe that you don't own a Prime. Post some pics along with both boxes and a piece of paper with your handle over the top of your Primes box. Make sure I can see the box. Hurry I don't have all nite.
Here it comes you are about to get owned...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What's taking you so long to post a couple of pics proving you have a Prime? What are you doing? Are you out driving around trying to buy a Prime and dock? I see that your still on. Let's get this over with. You have problems with GPS, I have problems with BT/WiFi/Youtube Artifacts. I need you to be on the same team with the same common goal.
Yea, unfortunately the aluminum case is a real pain. If Asus just came out and told us the truth about all this might have been better. They are just going to fix the issues by taking all the hard work that we did and apply it to another version tablet or slider.
Try it, what are your results?
Edited my original post with.....
(The Prime is about 10dBm weaker signal with the back pointing toward the router, compared to when the front is.)
Try this, what is your difference?
OK. I tried this. For me, there is hardly a difference or improvement. With glass facing router I might see a 2-4dbm improvement. Which is nothing really that'll make or break wifi performance. Plus I've noticed also you could sit still with metal back or glass facing router n the signal will strength will fluctuate. So for me, it not affecting my performance. Don't think this is really a good way to tell if back is affecting strength to a noticeable point. Since signal strength is always constantly fluctuating. Even 10dbm difference could be accounted for normal varying in signal strength. 10dbm difference won't hardly affect performance at all really. Need a more controlled test method to where other factors won't influence strength. Just by the way u holding tablet or angle or whatever can make the strength dbm change.
10dbm difference won't hardly affect performance at all really.
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Close to the router you are right. But further away, when reading say -60dBm, then another -10dBm is pretty significant for the Prime.
And someone else posted they saw 10 to 15 db difference.
Just curious what others might find. Does turning the back to the router give you a weaker signal, than when the glass is towards the router? By how much?
Ride525 said:
Close to the router you are right. But further away, when reading say -60dBm, then another -10dBm is pretty significant for the Prime.
And someone else posted they saw 10 to 15 db difference.
Just curious what others might find. Does turning the back to the router give you a weaker signal, than when the glass is towards the router? By how much?
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That is about the differences I see, about 15-20 foot away. Up close, it does have less impact. Seems somewhat exponential, I may start doing proper method tests but so far I just check it when it kicks my curiosity.
so i cannot post pictures because im a new member.
Step 1: watch any LG G5 teardown video and seperate the glass screen with mobo out of the metal casing.
step 2: on the right side of mobo under the black circle fabric (below the fabric DO NOT REMOVE FABRIC JUST LOOK UNDER IN) YOU WILL SEE 3 little button nubs.
each nub has a little bent peice of metal facing upwards. Each one needs to be pushed up a little more. the problem was they are not hitting the ribbon connection to give them power on the back casing.
you can see an image of it here imgur. com /G76xf8N remove spaces please.
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Can confirm this worked for me, here's an album if y'all want different angles on the phone
Confirmed as working for me too. I've done this mod on 3 phones already, all are a success. LG is horrible... Releasing phones with such blatant defects.
It will stop working after few days, cuz those are volume pins, has nothing to do with gps
If thats the real fix and the battery touches it, I'm almost certain that replacing batteries is causing this. It explains why many are reporting the issue coming back overtime when warranty replacing. My replacement is already getting worse GPS signal
Actually, makes sense these buttons are related to the volume buttons... There are multiple leads on the board connecting to the back of the case directly though, making me think that LG chose to use the "metal backing" as a GPS antenna. I've straightened multiple leads on the board which come in direct contact with the case itself and other elements just in case, but I have a feeling this will be an issue that plagues us G5 users until a hardware revision is done by LG...
Time to shop for another phone. What a bad investment this was...
karendar
wanna hear my story ? Bought S7 01.04.2016, 04.04.2016 was 1st time on warranty service cuz water in front cam, 2nd time 12.06 broke again same problem, last week 3rd time on warranty SAME PROBLEM, now I bought lg g5 with ****ed up GPS , VERY VERY nice.... looks like I'll give a shot to HTC 10 :/
if those 3 pins are gps antena and I dont think so, I'll just solder something to the backplace
NeoDJW said:
karendar
wanna hear my story ? Bought S7 01.04.2016, 04.04.2016 was 1st time on warranty service cuz water in front cam, 2nd time 12.06 broke again same problem, last week 3rd time on warranty SAME PROBLEM, now I bought lg g5 with ****ed up GPS , VERY VERY nice.... looks like I'll give a shot to HTC 10 :/
if those 3 pins are gps antena and I dont think so, I'll just solder something to the backplace
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Horrible how us early adopters get rimmed...
To be honest, I think those three leads do nothing but placebo after looking at the board... But notice all the leads across the board which connect to the case itself. I think those would be a better spot for GPS and phone antennas... Wish someone had a technical diagram for us.
As for the HTC 10, I've heard good things... Just not sure I'll be able to sell this phone to buy one.
Signal still holding strong today... Getting massive signal with no drops.
Is this problem still present in current versions? Or was it fixed? I can't believe LG still sells this phone with GPS not working? I get a G5 the next days, how can I check if mine has this issue too?
How ? I don' know dude, maybe, but just MAYBE you could install gps status and check it.........
I just read the "fix" and I just realized that this fix is total garbage. It can't work.
"each nub has a little bent peice of metal facing upwards. Each one needs to be pushed up a little more. the problem was they are not hitting the ribbon connection to give them power on the back casing. "
Everyone with normal reasoning can totally realize, that this "mod" will eventually fail again, really really soon, mostly after a few days, and you can read that btw already by lots of people, for example here:
https://m.reddit.com/r/lgg5/comments/4u8m9p/how_to_fix_your_gps_fixed_in_10_minutes/
Metal tends to change after some time or temperature / pressure, and it will fail again.
Why did no one develop a clever, simple and working mod so far? Why not just soldering a bit of liquid silver on the three contacts, with a bit of metal plate on top to make it 1-2mm higher? Or just even more simple: Do it on the backplate contacts.
mkdr said:
I just read the "fix" and I just realized that this fix is total garbage. It can't work.
"each nub has a little bent peice of metal facing upwards. Each one needs to be pushed up a little more. the problem was they are not hitting the ribbon connection to give them power on the back casing. "
Everyone with normal reasoning can totally realize, that this "mod" will eventually fail again, really really soon, mostly after a few days, and you can read that btw already by lots of people, for example here:
https://m.reddit.com/r/lgg5/comments/4u8m9p/how_to_fix_your_gps_fixed_in_10_minutes/
Metal tends to change after some time or temperature / pressure, and it will fail again.
Why did no one develop a clever, simple and working mod so far? Why not just soldering a bit of liquid silver on the three contacts, with a bit of metal plate on top to make it 1-2mm higher? Or just even more simple: Do it on the backplate contacts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To me, personally, I don't mind being a little bit critical, but with this response I think you are to direct and judgemental towards the topic starter. Topic starter has given his best to share his practice. And I agree with you this one will probably not last, but let's keep it friendly.
Sent from my LG-H850 using XDA-Developers mobile app
mkdr said:
I just read the "fix" and I just realized that this fix is total garbage. It can't work.
Everyone with normal reasoning can totally realize, that this "mod" will eventually fail again, really really soon, mostly after a few days, and you can read that btw already by lots of people, for example here:
https://m.reddit.com/r/lgg5/comments/4u8m9p/how_to_fix_your_gps_fixed_in_10_minutes/
Metal tends to change after some time or temperature / pressure, and it will fail again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
your answer is total garbage. ever seen a car that scraped on the ground because the shock absorbers failed due to temperature and high pressure just by existing?
unless you bend them over and over the method will most likely last for many years. you dont have a lot of forces acting on it.
if you make a fixed connection like soldering, the small dynamic forces would eventually weaken the material and it would break after some time. think before insulting somebody's idea
i don't think those are GPS antenna contacts.. as i used to observe that gps antennas usually have 1 or 2 contacts.. never 3! but they could do..
don't know if you read my topic about same issue and another "fix"..
at the moment we have 2 confirmed informations:
1) if you isolate detachable module pin connector you'll get no gps at all
2) gps will work good until you'll detach and reattach battery couple times.
this could explain why LG released this terminal which definitively passes any factory test! ...holy real day-use tests!
albenex said:
i don't think those are GPS antenna contacts.. as i used to observe that gps antennas usually have 1 or 2 contacts.. never 3!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
we have 3 different gps systems on our phone so 3 makes sense. BDS (beidou) is only to be found on the newest hardware
lolmensch said:
we have 3 different gps systems on our phone so 3 makes sense. BDS (beidou) is only to be found on the newest hardware
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Click to collapse
thanks, i've also tried this fix and seems working.. but indeed volume rockers are nearby and no other connectors were found.. mistery grows up..
this fix save me, thanks for it, now the gps works fine
lolmensch said:
your answer is total garbage. ever seen a car that scraped on the ground because the shock absorbers failed due to temperature and high pressure just by existing?
unless you bend them over and over the method will most likely last for many years. you dont have a lot of forces acting on it.
if you make a fixed connection like soldering, the small dynamic forces would eventually weaken the material and it would break after some time. think before insulting somebody's idea
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can read, right?
1. look at the link. lots of people already claimed the """mod""" lasted about 2-5 days, then the problem came back.
2. what are you talking about!? Those contacts between the board and the backplate are based up on pressure. The mod just says "try to bend them upwards a bit". THIS MEANS IT WILL TOTALLY GO IN ITS BASE POSITION AGAIN REALLY SOON. It can't work.
3. back to, if you can read. Where did I say soldering it? Right, no where. I said put some layers of conducting anything on the backplates contacts to grow its height.
Not enough forces acting on them? Seriously? So to your logic, this means this problem wouldn't occur in the first place. Pressing with your fingers on the cover at that very place mostly is enough to push them back every time a little bit., also because they're at the very edge of the cover.