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Hey,
Just thinking, anyone please correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know both the tablet and the dock have a Lithium-ion battery
From my knowledge, to keep lithium ion batteries in the best state you have to keep them between 20% and 80%, and not under/over charge them. The dock kinda seems to contradict this, because its constantly overcharging the tablet. This is extremely bad for the battery and greatly reduces the life span and capacity. Think of it as a laptop that you have in the socket 24/7, if you do this for half a year, the battery wont last for more then 30 mins. This, in a way, is resulting in the same problem.
Maybe this has been discussed before, but I couldn't find it, but isn't this a major design flaw? The dock should have some on/off charge switch.
It's not that simple. The Transformer, like every cell phone, laptop, and tablet using LiIon cells uses a charge controller chip that monitors charging current, pack voltage, pack temperature, discharge rate, and charge history to optimally control the power being fed to the battery from the charging input. The charge controller has a programmed hysteresis that keeps the battery from constantly charging (trickle charge) once it reaches its max capacity. Without a charge controller, the pack would eventually overheat and catch fire.
It is true that fully charged LiIon batteries will degrade in capacity over months to years. It's more damaging to the battery though to run it through a complete cycle (completely discharge). The best thing you can do for your battery without shelving the TF is to charge it every night to keep from unnecessarily running the battery down the next day.
In short, the Transformer can look after itself.
Also, this.
Thanks for your reply.
I might have used the wrong wording, I understand they have charge controllers to prevent the batteries from overcharging and exploding or catching fire. What I ment by overcharging was, charging it while the battery is already full, and undercharging - not charging it enough by letting it go into a deep discharge too often.
As stated in your link, "partial-discharge cycles can greatly increase cycle life, and charging to less than 100% capacity can increase battery life even further"
The dock keeps pushing it to 100%, and keeps it at 100% - reducing its battery life. Also, because you can not disable the dock charge, assuming you are constantly want to use the keyboard which I do, it will go into a deep discharge, also reducing the battery life of the dock. As often said, the best state for LiIon batteries is between 40% and 80%, this is hard to archive for both the dock and tablet due to it constant charging the tablet to full.
In order to preserve the best battery life, you must un-dock the tablet around 90% - and charge the dock whenever it reaches below 40% or so. Meeting both these requirements, while wanting to use the dock constantly seems like a burden. Not doing this, will rapidly decrease the capacity from my understanding.
Please correct me if I'm wrong though.
I don't see why people worry so much about this. It takes a few years for there to be any noticeable loss in battery life on lithium ion batteries, and even longer for it to become a significant burden.
It took me five years of daily usage of my old Toshiba laptop to wear down the battery to about half its original capacity, and it's still usable with only 2.5 hours of battery life. If we assume similar rules would apply to the Transformer, after 4-5 years you could still achieve a maximum of 8 hours on a single charge. If anything, by that time you'd be more concerned about how sluggish the device feels when compared to the newest tech, especially when browsing the web.
are you charging the tab on the dock at night, or separately? does it help/hurt it to charge on the dock every night? Thanks
Doesn't the dock expands on to the tablet's battery since it has it's own. I would think when combined you should be able to charge it all at once.
Same as the original transformer. Keep it docked, and plug the keyboard into the charger...it charges both.
I've just been putting my tablet on the dock at night, and then charging them both through the dock. Both are fully charged and ready to go in the morning. I switch a lot between docked and un-docked mode, but even with heavy use during the day, I don't need to re-charge till evening.
when does the dock begin charging the tablet? right now I am on battery battery power, my dock is at 99% but the tablet is at 79, does not appear to be charging.
aawshads said:
when does the dock begin charging the tablet? right now I am on battery battery power, my dock is at 99% but the tablet is at 79, does not appear to be charging.
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From the FAQ
Why isn’t my Eee Pad fully charged by the mobile docking?
When your Eee Pad is docked and disconnected to a power adapter, the mobile docking only charges your Eee Pad battery up to 90% maximum to protect your battery and prolong its life. The mobile docking recharges once your Eee Pad battery power goes below 70%. The power adapter fully charges your Eee Pad battery to 100% and recharges when below 95%.
then charging it on the dock at night will never get it to 100? where did you find that FAQ?
aawshads said:
then charging it on the dock at night will never get it to 100? where did you find that FAQ?
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that is only when it's not connected to a power source. when plugged in, both devices will charge to 100%.
curreyr said:
From the FAQ
The power adapter fully charges your Eee Pad battery to 100% and recharges when below 95%.
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aawshads said:
then charging it on the dock at night will never get it to 100? where did you find that FAQ?
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from support site
http://dlcdnet.asus.com/pub/ASUS/EeePAD/TF201/TF201_FAQ_en_20111226.pdf
it used to be available from ftp://ftp.asus.com.tw/pub/ASUS/EeePAD/TF201/ but that isn't working today ...
I don't know everything about the battery in the tablet, but I know a bit about batteries in general. When it is plugged in, there will be an almost constant charge on the batteries, meaning heat and stress. That is not good for batteries in general and will decrease the lifespan. Now you could very well be done with the tablet soon before the battery gives out, but why take that risk.
As someone who's worked with batteries, albeit, larger that the ones in question, it is a general rule of thumb to keep the batteries between 80% and 20%. That should be good enough for home. If your travelling, yea a full charge is great and won't hurt, but it would be worse than its worth to run the battery all the way down.
Just my recommendations. Not an expert, but I been around the block.
here is a reference site for battery maintenance
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries
it is interesting for Li-Ion it says to charge whilst powered off - my phone is always in the cradle - reading this tells me that is about the worst i could do.
Snippet: from above site
"A portable device should be turned off while charging. This allows the battery to reach the threshold voltage unhindered and reflects the correct saturation current responsible to terminate the charge. A parasitic load confuses the charger.
Lithium-ion does not need to be fully charged; a partial charge is better."
This is also why I never buy a cheap charger for my devices - as you never know if the charger circuit is any good and if it switches off at the moment of full charge.
This becomes more important with devices where the battery is not "consumer accessible"
I think that the 70-90% is kind of awkward and highly overuses the tablet inner lipo charge cycles.
Imho Asus should make a utility that alows the user to decide wheter:
The tablet runs from the dock battery with no charge of inner battery
The tablet is being charged from the dock up to 90% as it is reasonable for charge process
The tablet runs on it's own battery without recharge from the dock even though the dock has some juice left.
Any other scheme proposals are welcome .
Above should however vastly improve the quality of our batteries.
At least an option to disable the charge from dock to tablet is imho a must have
ankhazam said:
I think that the 70-90% is kind of awkward and highly overuses the tablet inner lipo charge cycles.
Imho Asus should make a utility that alows the user to decide wheter:
The tablet runs from the dock battery with no charge of inner battery
The tablet is being charged from the dock up to 90% as it is reasonable for charge process
The tablet runs on it's own battery without recharge from the dock even though the dock has some juice left.
Any other scheme proposals are welcome .
Above should however vastly improve the quality of our batteries.
At least an option to disable the charge from dock to tablet is imho a must have
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could be possible via kernel mods... but you are right, i kinda dislike the current method too.
It's stupid that once I disconnect 2 fully charged modules the tablet battery gets few extra charges from the dock.
That way I cannot treat the dock as a backup battery for running or recharge for when I it is really needed.
Someone please stick this thread and make another offensive on Asus.
It would be sad to root/void the warranty just to get such a must have when it should be done on stock.
agree in 100%
Could someone explain what is the current 'charge policy'?
As as owner of the original Transformer and the headaches it came with the dock discharging charging the tablet all the time and dealing with a dock battery that had issues being registered as charged or recharging (I RMA'd and others had the same issues as well), I love, love, love the way the new charging method is.
With that said, I think choices are good and having ASUS provide a way to let you use it how you want would be nice.
jyan_osu said:
As as owner of the original Transformer and the headaches it came with the dock discharging charging the tablet all the time and dealing with a dock battery that had issues being registered as charged or recharging (I RMA'd and others had the same issues as well), I love, love, love the way the new charging method is.
With that said, I think choices are good and having ASUS provide a way to let you use it how you want would be nice.
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What is the new charging method?
kristovaher said:
What is the new charging method?
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Instead of always charging from the dock, when docked in it only starts charging the tablet when the tablet gets to around 70% or so.. then it charges the tablet up to around 90% and then runs off the tablet and the cycle continues. So both the tablet and the dock discharge X amount at a time.
Hm, can see both sides to the argument, depends on whether you look at the dock as a battery booster or just to aid the tablet.
A utility would be a good idea to let the user choose, just have an option in the 'ASUS Customised Settings' menu.
jyan_osu said:
Instead of always charging from the dock, when docked in it only starts charging the tablet when the tablet gets to around 70% or so.. then it charges the tablet up to around 90% and then runs off the tablet and the cycle continues. So both the tablet and the dock discharge X amount at a time.
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Does this mean that when tablet is docked, it sometimes uses tablets own battery and -not- dock battery even when dock battery is charged!? What is the point in that?
I thought that the dock gets discharged first before tablet touches its own battery.
kristovaher said:
Does this mean that when tablet is docket, it sometimes uses tablets own battery and -not- dock battery even when dock battery is charged!? What is the point in that?
I thought that the dock gets discharged first before tablet touches its own battery.
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The point maybe to address the issue with the dock in the original design where it did discharge first and causes some issues. It's still using the dock battery when docked, just a different method from how the first one was. You'll still get 16 hours or whatever out if you use both together.
Either way, it's not getting to a point on the tablet where it's going leave you with like an hour left to play with should you undock it.. mid 70s seem to be the lowest it will go so if you do go all day with it docked and in use, the dock battery will get to 0 and the tablet will be around 90
yes there could be a time where you take it off the dock at 75 with some juice left in the dock.
Just to me it's a lot better coming from the original Transformer.
I can understand some folks who would rather just use dock's power first and then the tablet. But again, as an owner of both and seeing how both work, for me this is a better way
If the dock has no battery but the tab has loads, and you plug the dock in... would it work? If no, then I can see why it doesn't discharge first, if it does then there really isn't any point.
kevinm2k said:
If the dock has no battery but the tab has loads, and you plug the dock in... would it work? If no, then I can see why it doesn't discharge first, if it does then there really isn't any point.
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Yes it works fine. Had this issue on the original one all the time.
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
My wife got her CG dock last night, and while I had no intention of getting one for my AG one, after using it for about 30 seconds, I decided to go out and get one.
I've read through the Charge Policy thread but wanted to confirm the behavior I'm seeing today.
Scenario:
Dock Charge Level- 100%
Tablet Charge Level- 100%
AC Charging adapter is plugged into the dock and the AC outlet.
Tablet screen is on.
Slowly, the tablet charge decreases.
I would expect the tablet and dock to remain at 100% while the AC adapter is plugged in, but understand there may be some other behavior by design.
Is what I'm experiencing normal or an issue with my dock/tablet or configuration?
Thanks for any help.
2 Primes, no problems with either other than weak GPS...
Thats probably normal.
chamberc said:
My wife got her CG dock last night, and while I had no intention of getting one for my AG one, after using it for about 30 seconds, I decided to go out and get one.
I've read through the Charge Policy thread but wanted to confirm the behavior I'm seeing today.
Scenario:
Dock Charge Level- 100%
Tablet Charge Level- 100%
AC Charging adapter is plugged into the dock and the AC outlet.
Tablet screen is on.
Slowly, the tablet charge decreases.
I would expect the tablet and dock to remain at 100% while the AC adapter is plugged in, but understand there may be some other behavior by design.
Is what I'm experiencing normal or an issue with my dock/tablet or configuration?
Thanks for any help.
2 Primes, no problems with either other than weak GPS...
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Same for me, starting with the OG Transformer. I was "Thinking on the KB/Dock" when a friend at work let me try his dock on my tablet. Bought it like 15 minutes later on Amazon, LOL!
I think what you are seeing is normal, but keep an eye on it. My OG Transformer would completely discharge the dock, and only then start draining the tablet. On the Prime, it seems to drain Tablet to 70-%, then lets that dock sacrifice it's electrons for the Tablets sake. Then the Tablet drains some more and so on. Makes sense, as with the TF101 the Tablet was never getting cycled most days, I would take it to work, and at the end of the day stick it back on charger, and the dock would recharge, tablet never having drained other than a percent or two. Still I would live to understand the algorithms they use to determine optimal performance. Its never efficient to let a battery charge a battery as there will always be losses, but with this design, that's an acceptable loss.
SmartAs$Phone said:
Same for me, starting with the OG Transformer. I was "Thinking on the KB/Dock" when a friend at work let me try his dock on my tablet. Bought it like 15 minutes later on Amazon, LOL!
I think what you are seeing is normal, but keep an eye on it. My OG Transformer would completely discharge the dock, and only then start draining the tablet. On the Prime, it seems to drain Tablet to 70-%, then lets that dock sacrifice it's electrons for the Tablets sake. Then the Tablet drains some more and so on. Makes sense, as with the TF101 the Tablet was never getting cycled most days, I would take it to work, and at the end of the day stick it back on charger, and the dock would recharge, tablet never having drained other than a percent or two. Still I would live to understand the algorithms they use to determine optimal performance. Its never efficient to let a battery charge a battery as there will always be losses, but with this design, that's an acceptable loss.
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This is the right answer.
By design, it doesn't keep the tablet topped off, but waits until it falls to a particular battery level -- IIRC, around 70%. This optimizes battery life between both batteries and is a more efficient use of energy.
Thanks, i agree i observed it all day and thats how it works.
NeoteriX said:
This is the right answer.
By design, it doesn't keep the tablet topped off, but waits until it falls to a particular battery level -- IIRC, around 70%. This optimizes battery life between both batteries and is a more efficient use of energy.
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Its an ingenious idea from Asus. My OG Transformer's dock constantly charged the tablet.
Hey guys,
My dock has been acting kind of weird lately (see my thread in the Q/A section if you're curious - dock battery showed as 0% even when charging). What I'm wondering now is how others are doing with battery life in terms of the dock recharging the prime.
When I first got the tablet + dock, I used to be able to recharge the prime 2-3 times when the tab dropped to 70%. That would usually drain my dock battery all the way.
Fast forward to today and the past two weeks...My prime just finished recharging my tab up to about 90%, while it was being used to annotate lecture notes with some mild browsing and emailing in the background, the dock dropped to about 60%. This is what's concerning to me...It seems to be taking double the battery from the dock to recharge it to about the same, or less than, what it did before on the dock.
My use today has been pretty constant. I recharged both to 100% last night, and when I opened it up today at 12:30 pm, the tab was at 96% and the dock at 98%. Since then, my dock dropped to 88% while the tab drained in the same time to about 70%. It then started to charge my tablet to about 90% but the dock dropped to 34% where it is now. I have been using this constantly for the past 3.5 hours.
Here are my concerns, which I hope you guys can help me address:
Is this normal battery drain for 3.5 hours of moderate-heavy use?
Is this drain software related? It seems to have been fine way back on .11 (I'm on .15 now)
Is my dock battery shot? (ie should I RMA it)
Does the dock battery drain EVEN MORE if it's recharging the tablet while you're typing notes, etc on it?
Does a USB peripheral (ie wireless mouse) increase battery drain SIGNIFICANTLY?
I would attach a battery screenshot, but my settings battery menu doesn't have it tracked since it's docked.
I'm hoping this is a meaningful and useful thread so please try to avoid stating something obvious lol
Thanks guys
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using XDA Premium HD app
What performance modes, brightnesses are you using? Can you give us more info about what would be draining the battery?
It's quite possible your prime could be using a percent of the dock for every percent it receives, making it seem like your dock isn't working well, when in actuality it could be your tablet.
.15 was a battery killer for me, since I put virtuous on my prime and underclocked the cpu as the battery gets lower, it's fixed my battery life.
ickkii said:
What performance modes, brightnesses are you using? Can you give us more info about what would be draining the battery?
It's quite possible your prime could be using a percent of the dock for every percent it receives, making it seem like your dock isn't working well, when in actuality it could be your tablet.
.15 was a battery killer for me, since I put virtuous on my prime and underclocked the cpu as the battery gets lower, it's fixed my battery life.
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Sorry - forgot to include that. I'm on the normal regular mode with auto brightness. With SetCPU, I had it on On Demand up until this afternoon around when I wrote this post. Then I switched it to interactive.
And as for your second point, I agree that it's possible that's what's happening, but because I'm using it for hours on end, I'm not quite sure if that's what's happening, part of why I started this thread.
Have other people seen improvements from .15 to Virtuous?
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using XDA Premium HD app
Another question, along the same line.....If the tablet's battery is low, the dock is fully charged, and unplugged, will the juice in the battery partially charge the tablet, so that I can remove it from the dock and use it separately until I get to a charging station? Or will the tablet ONLY run off of the dock's battery?
Thanks,
Bob......impatiently waiting for my champagne dock to come
robertg9 said:
Another question, along the same line.....If the tablet's battery is low, the dock is fully charged, and unplugged, will the juice in the battery partially charge the tablet, so that I can remove it from the dock and use it separately until I get to a charging station? Or will the tablet ONLY run off of the dock's battery?
Thanks,
Bob......impatiently waiting for my champagne dock to come
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Yep, the dock charges the dock when it's plugged into the tablet.