I've searched high and low, and can't believe it's not a bigger issue on our device ( and many other deivces).
I have usb 3.0 ports (spec says 900mA max draw). So I should someway be able to achieve these higher rates of charging...
Is the issue the rezound not asking for more from the USB Host? Or is the issue my usb host driver not giving more?
I'm led to believe it's the rezound...
It can't stream 4g, and play full screen video and at least maintain it's charge off of USB.
I really want to resolve this.
The Rezound is a USB 2 device. As such, it can't request more than 5 USB 2.0 unit loads (=500 mA). It will draw more from a proper USB charging port.
Someone in another thread turned me on to this cable:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003VYBCAY/ref=oh_o00_s00_i02_details
It forces an AC charge on chargers that were showing up as USB (i.e. iphone charger). I imagine it'll do the same thing from any USB port... I believe it shorts the center pins within the cable.
It's sort of an expensive cable... but I plan on getting at least one more. Too many cheap chargers don't give AC, and this phone NEEDS it.
That's not how USB works (if properly implemented). A USB 2.0 port shouldn't deliver more than 100 mA, unless the attached device enumerates (has an actual USB conversation), in which case it may deliver up to 500 mA. The numbers are a bit higher for USB 3.0, but same concept. That cable (which violates USB specs) makes the phone think it's connected to a charging port. It would work fine with a real USB charger (but isn't a good idea, anyway). It will cause the phone to try and draw more than a USB data port can deliver. If used with a USB device which follows the spec, it will be worse than a regular data cable, and the device will only provide 100 mA. Best case, the phone might charge a bit faster than with a regular USB cable, worst case, you screw up the device you're charging from.
Better to just get a proper charger which follows the spec. You can get an OEM 1A charger through Amazon for like $7, cable included. Why screw around with questionable, non-standard stuff?
mike.s said:
The Rezound is a USB 2 device. As such, it can't request more than 5 USB 2.0 unit loads (=500 mA). It will draw more from a proper USB charging port.
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Click to collapse
If this is the case, then I get it.. and I'll ask...
what's taking so long for these devices to be usb 3.0 compliant? it's not like the standard was set yesterday
ah well... another year or three i guess!
thatsricci said:
If this is the case, then I get it.. and I'll ask...
what's taking so long for these devices to be usb 3.0 compliant? it's not like the standard was set yesterday
ah well... another year or three i guess!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is because they haven't fully utilized the speeds of USB 2.0 by any means what so ever.
That and USB 3.0 is, in fact, fairly new, and with all new technologies it costs money.
Your $300, or $200 depending on when you bought it, phone would probably be an extra $100 - $200 with USB 3.0 technology, which itself is really only like USB 2.0.1 speeds at best.
Sent from the resounding Rezound
USB 2.0 does 480 Mbps "raw," real world, closer to 320Mbps (40 MBps).
That's faster than LTE can provide, and it's faster than a Class 10 SD card, which are the two fastest/most data intensive uses for USB on a phone. There's absolutely no need to add the cost of USB 3.0 to a phone at this time.
Charging when plugged into a PC is a convenience. Use a dedicated USB charger if you want performance. You can get such a charger, either AC or car, for less than $10. There's simply no problem here.
Speed was never what I was interested in, but charging for sure is.
It's convenient, especially when I'm on the go to use my laptop (which has an extended battery) and my phone at the same time (tethering/streaming) and it's nicer if the phone could charge/maintain it's battery level while doing what I need it to do! Even a dedicated charging port on the laptop that can power while the laptop is turned off should be able to give me max charge, so when I plug it in and drive down the road I get a good charge instead of a so so usb charge.
I'm more than willing to pay for this convenience I do carry the wall wart charger in my bag too for those times when I do need a fast charge, but it's silly to me that I need to use two plugs at the coffee shop... I suppose I could also carry an ac plug splitter, but yeah, now i'm just carrying more with me!
Edit: case closed though, now I understand why we can't get max charge from usb 3.0 ports, because it's the device specs that are limited. Stay Calm, carry on, I'll live!
Related
Hey fellows,
I just stumbled across this sentence with the following link:
Motorola Drivers: if you don't have it installed already get it here:
USB and PC Charging Drivers - Motorola USAThat got me thinking; usb ports always output some currency, but apparently this can be easily guided to make the phone charge faster. And since a lot of people, including me, charge their hero / phone exclusively via pc, couldn't it be possible for people over here to play a bit around with high-power-output USB drivers ? Especially people who are into wireless tethering would be eternally gratefull!.
charging a battery with higher current or voltage can damage it, the charging was designed with the voltage given by a standard usb port. Charging from a computer charges at the same rate as it would being plugged into the wall when done over usb.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the wall charger provide more amps than usb ports? And amps are drawn as needed,its the voltage you got to watch out for!
wall charger provides 5v @ 1A
usb port provides 5v @ 0.5A
i think its impossible to get higher than .5A from a usb socket so i dont think this would work
ducamie said:
wall charger provides 5v @ 1A
usb port provides 5v @ 0.5A
i think its impossible to get higher than .5A from a usb socket so i dont think this would work
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it should work flawlessly on laptops with special usb ports (my 3 years old compal has such one), so probalby also in other computers...
bad luck that this works only under windows, and there is no support for this in linux...
Oh I didn't know that USB provides 0.5A. I use USB, wall outlet (1A), and occasionally my car charger (2A split). Yes, my phone does it a little hot but nothing near danger level when charging with the car charger.
my bad, usually the usb port by where the ac adaptor plugs in is usually more powerful, well at least on the laptops ive owned in the past
The USB standard only allows for 500mA over USB ports when a device is connected and authenticated, i.e. drivers loaded.
Without this authentication, the USB standard dictates a maximum of 50mA - basically enough to get the device to power up, install drivers, and then hop into the higher power mode. If you just connect cables to the USB port you should only get 50mA as nothing will be detected by the OS.
However, most if not all USB ports ignore this part of the spec and provide full 500mA to anything connected. In addition, a lot of USB ports now provide power when the computer is off, and provide power above 500mA - you may have to enable these functions though.
as far as I know, those motorola drivers signal a device that requires '1.5a' of power, 1.0a more than officially allowed by the usb specification.
Not all ports will actually give that amount of power, but it's a but of an ugly hack to say that the device can handle 1.5a, and some ports actually give them 1.5a (ports on desktop-chipsets can behave like this. Most laptop-chipsets follow the 0.5a spec closely).
I know our heroes can take 1.0a at least (that is supplied by the default HTC wall charger, am I correct?). But a) don't know if more works with a Hero b) changes of this actually working (ie misbehaving usb ports) are slim
Mod. edit: not dev related, moved to q&a
usb is approximately 5 volts now matter what kind of drivers you are using. the +5v rail in the usb port is already the one being used for charging, so the answer is no. but i guess HTC still could have made some drivers that acctually work for win7 x64...
jell said:
bad luck that this works only under windows, and there is no support for this in linux...
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Click to collapse
may i interject and say that this is just as possible in linux as in windows. there just isn't a known method for it yet, and very few people knows how to compile working homebrew drivers for USB 2.0
this would be handy for me to charge my phone with less amperes as i cant use my G15,G5,surround sound hs and charge hero at same time.....computer says i just canny do et cap'ain i doont have the poower!
Greetings Devs.
I found this software which promises to charge i products faster. So why not the nook? I know it works with the ipad/iphone/itouch, but not the NC (or anything else for that matter). I was looking in the ini file and managed to match up the class id of each product, and then I found the id for the NC and added this line:
HKLM, System\CurrentControlSet\Control\Class\{3f966bd9-fa04-4ec5-991c-d326973b5128}, LowerFilters, %REG_MULTI_SZ_APPEND%, AiCharger
To both the install and uninstall filter. However, I cannot tell if it pushes extra power to just the ipad, or if it does to all of them.
Ideas? Tried digging around the sys file in hex, but nothing found. I think it would be nice if we could boost output a bit
USB Standard is 500mAh. If you somehow force your port to deliver more power you could fry it.
khaytsus said:
USB Standard is 500mAh. If you somehow force your port to deliver more power you could fry it.
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Click to collapse
Well yeah, but no one is at least curious if this could help out at all? Maybe hardware manufactures cap it @ 5V, .5A and they override it? Maybe it provides a steadier draw somehow? Maybe they draw more power from the rails for powered-usb slots?
ace7196 said:
Well yeah, but no one is at least curious if this could help out at all? Maybe hardware manufactures cap it @ 5V, .5A and they override it? Maybe it provides a steadier draw somehow? Maybe they draw more power from the rails for powered-usb slots?
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Click to collapse
Charging more than 500ma through the USB hardware is bad.
Lithium batteries charge at full amperage over the entire charge cycle, and just turn off the charge when they hit a certain voltage (~3.6v per cell on lipo IIRC?)
I don't think there is anything you can do from the computer side unless it tells the device itself to pull the full 500ma when it would try to pull less (for fear of overloading a USB interface, as there are usually 2 ports per USB port on a computer (IIRC.)
IMO, just use a powered USB hub?
Winmo custom roms had a quick-charge feature built in to a lot of them.
I don't think anyone fried anything.
This thread belongs in QnA though unless the op is actually developing something.
Did any naysayers even bother to look at the link? It is for Asus brand mobos only. And only certain ones are supported. Surely Asus isn't going to release an app that would fry the port...
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
lafester said:
Winmo custom roms had a quick-charge feature built in to a lot of them.
I don't think anyone fried anything.
This thread belongs in QnA though unless the op is actually developing something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thinking of developing the software for it...
Syco54645 said:
Did any naysayers even bother to look at the link? It is for Asus brand mobos only. And only certain ones are supported. Surely Asus isn't going to release an app that would fry the port...
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As pointed out here, this is not JUST simply software. This is the software portion of a hardware feature on Asus motherboards. The boards have a separate controller in them that allows more amperage to specific USB ports for the purpose of charging particular, high amperage items (ipad, iphone) only. As also stated here, the USB standard is a fixed 5V .5A and this isn't something that can simply be modified via software as the controllers themselves would have problems managing higher draws (not really the physical ports).
The only application this would have would be to users with those specific boards IF the software can be hacked to allow that amperage on the Nook. It may also be worth mentioning that the Nook's internal connector is different and the higher power provided by the wall charger is not over the standard USB VCC pins on the connector. I'm not familiar enough with the wiring inside the device to say for certain, but the standard charge connections from USB may be a different path than the wall charger on a charge controller.
Quick Edit: This actually doesn't appear to be the same as their hardware specific version, which most likely makes it even less useful. It looks like this enables charging in multiple standby modes and most likely forces the port to full amperage; which is typically only done after the device negotiates with the system, initial port power is much lower. My device manager shows the Nook pulling it's full 500mA already, so unless you're trying to do a lot of charging while your computer is in standby, this isn't gonna be of much use.
Edit 2: Quick bounce around the internet shows this app as causing a bit of instability and BSODs. May not be everyone, so if you're still testing this let us know if you're stable.
Infraded said:
As pointed out here, this is not JUST simply software. This is the software portion of a hardware feature on Asus motherboards. The boards have a separate controller in them that allows more amperage to specific USB ports for the purpose of charging particular, high amperage items (ipad, iphone) only. As also stated here, the USB standard is a fixed 5V .5A and this isn't something that can simply be modified via software as the controllers themselves would have problems managing higher draws (not really the physical ports).
The only application this would have would be to users with those specific boards IF the software can be hacked to allow that amperage on the Nook. It may also be worth mentioning that the Nook's internal connector is different and the higher power provided by the wall charger is not over the standard USB VCC pins on the connector. I'm not familiar enough with the wiring inside the device to say for certain, but the standard charge connections from USB may be a different path than the wall charger on a charge controller.
Quick Edit: This actually doesn't appear to be the same as their hardware specific version, which most likely makes it even less useful. It looks like this enables charging in multiple standby modes and most likely forces the port to full amperage; which is typically only done after the device negotiates with the system, initial port power is much lower. My device manager shows the Nook pulling it's full 500mA already, so unless you're trying to do a lot of charging while your computer is in standby, this isn't gonna be of much use.
Edit 2: Quick bounce around the internet shows this app as causing a bit of instability and BSODs. May not be everyone, so if you're still testing this let us know if you're stable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have to use the nook's cable to quick charge. I believe it's the same on the USB side but different on the NC side.
Thanks Infraded for the helpful reply. I did a quick search and it seemed it caused more trouble than it's worth (BSOD, etc). I'll dig deeper.
I had the same issues with my iPad. If your motherboard vendor supports it, they have a BIOS update that adjusts the USB ports to charge things like the Nook and iPad.
khaytsus said:
USB Standard is 500mAh. If you somehow force your port to deliver more power you could fry it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some dell laptops (my 5400 has it) have an option in bios for USB Power Share, where they allow USB devices which know if they are connected to to wall chargers or USB plugs to charge as if they were on wall chargers.
Its epic win.
In the NC teardown, didn't they discover that the Nook Color actually uses a custom micro USB connector which is backwards compatible with the standard? It goes on to say that the NC charges only through a pair of 12V pins on the USB cable that is provided with it out of the box, and in fact when you connect your NC to your computer it is *not charging at all* even if your ROM says it is. This is consistent with my experience where the battery only goes down when plugged into my PC.
Needless to say you would need some pretty serious hardware hacks to get your PC pumping 12 volts to the USB cable.
mthe0ry said:
In the NC teardown, didn't they discover that the Nook Color actually uses a custom micro USB connector which is backwards compatible with the standard? It goes on to say that the NC charges only through a pair of 12V pins on the USB cable that is provided with it out of the box, and in fact when you connect your NC to your computer it is *not charging at all* even if your ROM says it is. This is consistent with my experience where the battery only goes down when plugged into my PC.
Needless to say you would need some pretty serious hardware hacks to get your PC pumping 12 volts to the USB cable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Um, no. The wall charger puts out 5 volts @ 1.9 Amps. Take a close look at the bottom of your own charger...specs are right there. Supposedly, the nook will only charge when the amperage is at least 1.9 amps. In practice it will charge as much as can minus the current it is drawing...usually more than a standard port can put out(.5A).
ie standard port = .5A
Nook draw is ~ .45A
total for charging is .05A....barely noticeable or in worst case not even enough to keep up.
Not to mention that many ports shut down entirely if they think they are sending out to much current.
send 12 volts into your nook and you will have found one of the few ways to brick it
edit: what these"hacks" for the usb ports do is raise the limiting on them to higher values..say 5 volts @ 1A or rarely 1.5A
Two of SMSC's family of transceivers supports up to 1.5A from dedicated charger ports.
Furthermore, I'm charging my nook color from my netbook right now with a standard non-OEM usb cable. So I don't think you need the standard one
Some basic info here:
http://www.smsc.com/media/Downloads/Product_Brochures/usb333x_334xfs.pdf
ace7196 said:
Two of SMSC's family of transceivers supports up to 1.5A from dedicated charger ports.
Furthermore, I'm charging my nook color from my netbook right now with a standard non-OEM usb cable. So I don't think you need the standard one
Some basic info here:
http://www.smsc.com/media/Downloads/Product_Brochures/usb333x_334xfs.pdf
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I'm thinking that the extra pins in the stock cable are mostly for the led in there. Going back to work monday and ordering a spare for teardown purposes with my first check. I'll let you all know exactly what I find out.
mthe0ry said:
In the NC teardown, didn't they discover that the Nook Color actually uses a custom micro USB connector which is backwards compatible with the standard? It goes on to say that the NC charges only through a pair of 12V pins on the USB cable that is provided with it out of the box, and in fact when you connect your NC to your computer it is *not charging at all* even if your ROM says it is. This is consistent with my experience where the battery only goes down when plugged into my PC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Except that it does charge on ANY source. If the NC is running and active it uses MORE CURRENT THAN 500mAh, so it won't charge any, but it's still getting 500mAh of juice.
If you turn off the screen, it'll slowly charge.... Around 10%/hr.
And I suspect that the 1.9A from the stock charger+cable comes from all 3 pairs, the standard pair + the two extra in the B&N cable, but it's possible that the stock cable only charges the extra two pairs. Regardless, it does charge from a standard cable on any USB port. The B&N ROM does not show charging unless it's charging at 1.9A.
ace7196 said:
Two of SMSC's family of transceivers supports up to 1.5A from dedicated charger ports.
Furthermore, I'm charging my nook color from my netbook right now with a standard non-OEM usb cable. So I don't think you need the standard one
Some basic info here:
http://www.smsc.com/media/Downloads/Product_Brochures/usb333x_334xfs.pdf
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can also confirm nook will charge off a standard USB (at least while I've got CM7), using the stock BN cable, and definitely faster than 10%/hour. Have been doing so off my work computer for a while now. I recall that this did NOT work while the NC was virgin unrooted, however, although occasionally there'd be this weird "bump" in batt level to 100% when first connecting. Have not seen that effect since going to CM7.
last night as a test I let my nook go to 10% remaining. Then I used my daughters LG Ally cable on the stock charger for 1 hour. It charged to 24%. Then I drained back to 10% and used the stock cable for 1 hour...result?....44%. There IS something special with the stock cable. I don't think there is any magic to the charger other than the amperage.
deadbot1 said:
last night as a test I let my nook go to 10% remaining. Then I used my daughters LG Ally cable on the stock charger for 1 hour. It charged to 24%. Then I drained back to 10% and used the stock cable for 1 hour...result?....44%. There IS something special with the stock cable. I don't think there is any magic to the charger other than the amperage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uh.. Yeah. As said a hundred times, the cable has 4 extra pins for charging on the MicroUSB side.
i bought two extra usb cables from amazon, i can't link to them since i don't have enough posts yet, but they're the "EMPIRE USB Data Cable for Verizon HTC ThunderBolt" from amazon
i intentionally looked for some that said for use with thunderbolt in case there was something different than just a micro-usb cable; however, it does not seem that these cables charge as well as the cable that ships. it takes several hours even when trying to charge with the original AC adapter using one of these cables vs the ~1.5-2 hours with the cable that comes with. When trying to use a computer or a car adapter it just holds the charge steady, if using navigation it actually drops battery while plugged in!
is there something i'm missing here? they should all be the same right? can anyone point me to some that actually work? (preferably from amazon since i have gift cards there)
I've had the same problem.
Make sure you are getting the correct voltage. I think my issues are that USB is a slower charge than outlets and the "extra" charger I had was for my bluetooth which had a lower voltage.
strobieone said:
I've had the same problem.
Make sure you are getting the correct voltage. I think my issues are that USB is a slower charge than outlets and the "extra" charger I had was for my bluetooth which had a lower voltage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah, i understand that usb from the computer will be a lower voltage, which is what i thought the issue was at first. but then i tried using the original AC adapter with the replacement usb cable and it was slower than the original cable. i don't see why the cable would make a difference, but it definitely appears to.
i downloaded the current widget and can see that just swapping between the OEM cable and the aftermarket cable the charging current is quite different. ~+600ma with the OEM and -100ma to +300ma with the aftermarket (yes at times it was LOSING charge while plugged in using the aftermarket)
roppetty said:
yeah, i understand that usb from the computer will be a lower voltage, which is what i thought the issue was at first. but then i tried using the original AC adapter with the replacement usb cable and it was slower than the original cable. i don't see why the cable would make a difference, but it definitely appears to.
i downloaded the current widget and can see that just swapping between the OEM cable and the aftermarket cable the charging current is quite different. ~+600ma with the OEM and -100ma to +300ma with the aftermarket (yes at times it was LOSING charge while plugged in using the aftermarket)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should never use any other cable than the one provided with your Thunderbolt. On the site it may say that it "Works" with the Thunderbolt but that doesn't mean you are going to get the performance you need out of it. I have had that problem plenty of times with older cables and sadly it keeps me buying the slightly overpriced cables from Verizon so I know that I get what I need.
roppetty said:
yeah, i understand that usb from the computer will be a lower voltage, which is what i thought the issue was at first. but then i tried using the original AC adapter with the replacement usb cable and it was slower than the original cable. i don't see why the cable would make a difference, but it definitely appears to.
i downloaded the current widget and can see that just swapping between the OEM cable and the aftermarket cable the charging current is quite different. ~+600ma with the OEM and -100ma to +300ma with the aftermarket (yes at times it was LOSING charge while plugged in using the aftermarket)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It sounds like a defective cable. Check to see how it's charging (AC or USB). If it says USB when connected to the HTC charger, the cable is bad.
I use micro-USB cables I got from Monoprice, no problems.
mike.s said:
It sounds like a defective cable. Check to see how it's charging (AC or USB). If it says USB when connected to the HTC charger, the cable is bad.
I use micro-USB cables I got from Monoprice, no problems.
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Click to collapse
It's not defective, it's just not designed for charging. OP, always make sure it says it is a charger cable, not a data cable, when you buy one.
WeaselWeaz said:
It's not defective, it's just not designed for charging.
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BS. You have no clue what you're talking about. The TB follows the USB charging specification.
The thing about USB (Universal serial bus) cables is that they are UNIVERSAL. It doesn't matter where you get them from, what they say, or what they are branded. They have to meet certain specs (including materials and current capacity) in order to get the USB label.
If you're having a problem, I am 99% sure the cable is not the issue.
Try out monoprice.com. I've used them for years. You can get 3 wall chargers, 5 USB cables and 2 car chargers (all 1A) for like $25, shipped.
Edit: QFT
mike.s said:
BS. You have no clue what you're talking about. The TB follows the USB charging specification.
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necosino said:
The thing about USB (Universal serial bus) cables is that they are UNIVERSAL. It doesn't matter where you get them from, what they say, or what they are branded. They have to meet certain specs (including materials and current capacity) in order to get the USB label.
If you're having a problem, I am 99% sure the cable is not the issue.
Try out monoprice.com. I've used them for years. You can get 3 wall chargers, 5 USB cables and 2 car chargers (all 1A) for like $25, shipped.
Edit: QFT
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Click to collapse
yeah, i'm with you, that's why i posed to see if there was something i'm missing and didn't know about. i'm a computer engineer so i know a cable is a cable is a cable, which is why i was like wtf when these didn't work the same.
thanks all, at least i know i didn't miss something and these should work the same.
ive had this problem on every phone. takes forever to charge through usb.
A USB cable is a USB cable is a USB cable is a USB cable.
If you are doing seat of your pants checks on charging, etc, they are never going to be accurate. CPU usage, network usage, etc while the phone is charging will affect how quickly it does charge. The stock charger provides 1000mA to charge the device, if you are using it, or another app is doing something (downloading data, using cpu, etc) it will not charge as quickly because power is being drained as it is being charged.
There is too much that would cause a slower charge state that you can't compensate for by a seat of the pants judgement on charging.
Its all about the mA.
No, thats not a storm. Its just my Thunderbolt layin down this post.
I have the same issue. I have tried four different usb cables with the oem charger and only two charge normally, the oem and one that I had with an old phone that I put a mini to micro adapter on to fit. The other two, one actually micro one mini to micro adapted, charge extremely slow. Yes a cable is a cable, but given I use the oem charger, the only differing things are the cables.
For what it's worth, I hate to burst your bubbles but not all USB cables are equal. And, in fact, not all phones are optimized for USB cables. Just because a cable looks like a USB cable and works as a USB cable doesn't mean that it is ONLY a USB cable. There are quite a few devices out there that can be charged (albeit slowly) with a USB cable but can be charged quickly with a cable that you only think is a USB cable. Take the Nook Color, for instance. The cable that it comes with looks like a USB cable on all accounts, but it's not. I forget which (both are techniques currently used) but either it has extra pins or has a data pin repurposed to provide additional power so it can charge faster. There are quite a few devices out there that are like this, and it seems like the number of these devices just keep growing and growing.
Now these "non-USB" devices still support USB standards, and can be charged via USB standard cables. However, they are optimized for non-USB standards and charge faster with these non-USB cables.
I'm honestly not sure if our Thunderbolts are such a device or not, and if the cables that they come with are such cables. They very well could be, and what the OP claims goes along with that theory. But honestly, I simply do not know.
EDIT:
Oh, and one more example. Go take a look at the custom "USB" cables that Team Blackhat had made that can power Motorola devices in CWM without a battery in the device. This is yet another example of where a USB cable isn't a USB cable.
Having the data pins connected to 5v sources is part of the charger itself; it has nothing to do with the cable.
Every USB cable has 4 pins: two 5v+, a gnd and a 5v- if the second + and - aren't connected to a source in the charger, you will only get a 0.5A charge, and it will go slow. If the charger DOES have them connected, you get the full 1A, and a much faster charge.
If the charger or cable is anything different then it is not USB. End of story. I know some phones have extra pins in the USB location for video out, for example, but those don't interfere with the standard USB pins.
Sent from my ThunderBolt using Tapatalk
necosino said:
Every USB cable has 4 pins: two 5v+, a gnd and a 5v-
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Click to collapse
Wrong, kinda. Check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nook_Color#USB_port
The Nook Color uses a modified connector with two depths. The first depth is compatible with micro-usb (5-conductor), while the second depth has 12 conductors. This change was made to increase the amount of power available to charge the larger battery of the Nook Color when using the included cable.
Because of this, the USB cable included with the Nook Color is physically incompatible with other devices employing standard micro-usb connectors. However, the Nook Color itself is physically compatible with standard micro-usb cords.
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Click to collapse
Now I realize that calling this a "USB Cable" might be stretching the definition of "USB Cable" (hence the "wrong, kinda" comment) but more than likely, most people have no clue that one cable is different than another, so the end result is that, for all practical purposes, we DO have different types of USB cables.
necosino said:
Every USB cable has 4 pins: two 5v+, a gnd and a 5v- if the second + and - aren't connected to a source in the charger, you will only get a 0.5A charge, and it will go slow. If the charger DOES have them connected, you get the full 1A, and a much faster charge.
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Close, but not quite.
The pins are +5, Ground, +D and -D. All power is drawn through the +5 and Ground lines. The D lines are used for data transfer.
Per the USB specifications, a device can only draw 100 mA without enumerating (negotiating via USB, implies both ends have "intelligence"). If it can enumerate, it can negotiate for up to 500 mA (e.g. plugged into a PC which has a "driver" which recognizes the phone).
There are also specifications for DCPs (Dedicated Charging Ports). For these, the D+ and D- pins (the center two in a full sized USB connector) on the charger must be connected together with no more than 200 Ohms. These ports must provide at least 500 mA, but can provide more (micro-USB connectors are rated to 1.8 A). That's how the phone knows it can draw more than 100 mA from a "dumb" power adapter.
The TB follows the USB charging spec. Here are some things that can happen.
If it's plugged into a charger which doesn't follow the USB spec (D+ and D- not connected together, these are fairly common), it can only draw 100 mA. It doesn't matter if you bought a "2.5 Amp USB charger," if the charger doesn't follow the spec, a device which does isn't supposed to draw more than 100 mA. That's enough to charge it very slowly when the screen is off and it's idling. If the phone is doing anything, the battery will actually be discharging. This is a problem which seems to be common with many car chargers. A lot of device will ignore the 100 mA spec limit, and draw whatever they can, which is why they will charge from an improper adapter.
It's plugged into a PC with no driver - same thing.
It's plugged into a PC with a driver - it can negotiate and pull 500 mA. This is enough to charge while running in almost all cases (it might be on the edge if streaming video via 4G with GPS on, etc.) It will charge, but not as fast as it could.
For all of the above, a TB will show "USB" as the charging type.
It's plugged into a USB DCP. By spec, these must be able to deliver at least 500 mA. The AC adapter shipped with the TB is marked 1.0 A, and the phone won't draw more than 1.0 A (the most I've seen it use to charge the battery is ~800 mA). This will allows the fastest charging. With a DCP, the TB will show "AC" as the charging type.
Cables can have the same effect - all USB cables are supposed to be basically the same. But, some manufacturer's play loose with the spec. They may have "USB" cables with resistors or other changes inside which signal different things to a device. They may not have proper gauge wiring. It may just be a bad cable. Etc.
I've charged the TB with the stock AC charger using both the stock cable, and one I got from Monoprice. Works fine. I've also got a USB hub I converted to a charging station (follows the spec for USB dedicated charging ports), and that works fine with both the original and the Monoprice cables.
I have run into "flaky" cables, where they only work right if jiggled around a bit. Maybe they've been flexed too much, and have an intermittent connection. Maybe the contacts have gotten dirty. I don't worry about it, I just throw those away, you can get new ones from Monoprice for less than a buck.
Thanks Mike S (Also my initials, lol) That's what I get for posting after staying up a bit too late.
well i just ordered two micro usb cables from monoprice. we'll see if those fare any better.
the only thing i can guess is the power wires are a small gauge in the cables i bought from amazon. monoprice has two different kinds, some use 28awg for both data/power and then they have some that have 24awg for power and 28awg for data. i'm hoping that getting the bigger wire for the power will solve the issue.
also, i've been using juiceplotter and you can visibly see the slope of the charge change when switching just between these cables i bought vs the stock one when using the HTC charger so i'm pretty certain it's the cable.
roppetty said:
i've been using juiceplotter
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Battery Monitor Widget will do that, and more, including telling you whether it's charging AC or USB.
You can also check the charging type from Home Settings/About Phone/Battery/Battery Status.
I have a USB car charger that doesn't seem to charge as quickly as I would like it to. I say that by comparing it to previous phones and the rate at which they charged when plugged into it.
I read that you can short out the Belkin or Griffin USB charges to make it look like your phone is plugged into the wall. I'm not agains doing this because i like to tweak.
The question really is, I see that Proporta has a 4000mA (2000mA per port) dual port USB charger available. Will this allow my phone to charge like it's plugged into the wall or will it still "look like" I'm plugged into a USB prot charging?
- Cyber
Not exactly sure what you're asking, but I assume that you mean that a wall charger charges the phone faster than a car charger.
Unfortunately, I don't know if this is the case. USB is a universal standard with specific power requirements. Although there are medium and high power chargers out there, I would be reluctant to get something so extreme. I think USB calls for 500 mA standard, so I'd be careful using the charger you mention. You might want to do some more research on it, or contact the company about it.
I'm not an expert but my opinion is that usually USB-Wall charger supplies up to 1000 mAh (written on power supply transformer) while the USB-OutPC is only 500 mAh, in fact, I've noticed that the full charge of my Titan takes double the time if charged via PC.
Not sure about the amount supplied by cars USB adapter.
...my two amperes...
Some of the chargers accomplish support for things like the iPad 2 by shorting the two USB connectors. Some advertise things like 2000ma, but fail to deliver much more than 500ma. I am not sure if this is due to the choice of shorting out the data connectors to trick your phone in to thinking it is plugged in to the wall.
Back in the WM 6.5 days, you could accomplish this at the phone driver level and did not need to modify your chargers.
I would not worry about trying something rated higher as your phone would regulate the current. I personally intend to do my experimentation by shorting out the cable rather than the charger (cables are more easily replaced). Unfortunately, there is no app for WP7 that can measure the charging current, so the only way to do this scientifically is to use the battery status app and measuring the charge rate over time.
If you do the mod, post back and let us know. When I get around to the USB cable experiment, I will post back as well.
FWIW, I think I may have traced my recent charging problems to a Belkin USB charger at my office. On this power source, the battery indicates charging from USB, and apparently there's not enough current to keep up with the demand of the device. It discharges continuously with the screen on, and only keeps even with the screen off. The only way to charge with the Belkin is to turn the phone off.
With the included HTC adapter at my home, however (and with a Motorola adapter left over from a previous phone), the Rezound will charge with screen off, and perhaps even a little with the screen on. Allowed to charge overnight, I do not have to turn the device off when using the HTC charger. On this charger, the phone indicates AC power.
Of course, none of this was an issue before I took the ICS leak. Even though I've gone back to GB, I still have the ICS firmware, and I suspect something different in there is affecting charging.
In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if HTC simply lowered charging rates as part of a campaign to deal with widespread heat issues. If you were trying to cool the phone, that's definitely something you would consider tweaking.
For sure, it's a known issue, some chargers give the full 1A ( the phone indicates AC charging) and some only give 400ma or less (USB Charging).
Search around for chargers and there's good discussion on AC adapters that work well, and even how to modify a USB wall/car charger to give a full AC amount.
Both my gigabyte and msi motherboards are able to deliver up to 1.5A via the USB ports, and are even able to charge my phone (or tablet) when the computer is OFF.
a.mcdear said:
Both my gigabyte and msi motherboards are able to deliver up to 1.5A via the USB ports, and are even able to charge my phone (or tablet) when the computer is OFF.
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for sure, but i bet your phone is only commanding 500ma from it since the phone is usb 2.0 spec... I too have a power port on my laptop to charge things when the laptop is off but it doesn't get over usb 2.0 spec because of the phone :x
I've tried everything, short of trying to make, or looking for, customized drivers to overload it.
thatsricci said:
for sure, but i bet your phone is only commanding 500ma from it since the phone is usb 2.0 spec... I too have a power port on my laptop to charge things when the laptop is off but it doesn't get over usb 2.0 spec because of the phone :x
I've tried everything, short of trying to make, or looking for, customized drivers to overload it.
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You might be right when it comes to the Rezound, but I know for a fact that it is capable of supplying more than 500mA to some devices for charging. It charges my TF101 even with the screen on, which every other computer with ordinary USB ports seems incapable of doing. If I plug my TF101 into any other computer with a standard USB 2.0 port, it will still slowly discharge if the screen is on and I'm using it.
Either way, I notice absolutely no difference between charging via USB on my computer or via the actual charger, so I'm relatively sure the USB port IS outputting at least the full 1A that the actual charger is rated at, and I am NOT using a kernel with the "fast charge" mod..
I haven't really spent much time noticing how slowly the Rezound would charge on a regular USB 2.0 port. Maybe I'll give it a shot on my laptop tonight just to test it out.
Or, a simple ammeter would probably put the issue to rest definitely.. I wonder if I know anybody with one I could use.....
a.mcdear said:
You might be right when it comes to the Rezound, but I know for a fact that it is capable of supplying more than 500mA to some devices for charging. It charges my TF101 even with the screen on, which every other computer with ordinary USB ports seems incapable of doing. If I plug my TF101 into any other computer with a standard USB 2.0 port, it will still slowly discharge if the screen is on and I'm using it.
Either way, I notice absolutely no difference between charging via USB on my computer or via the actual charger, so I'm relatively sure the USB port IS outputting at least the full 1A that the actual charger is rated at, and I am NOT using a kernel with the "fast charge" mod..
I haven't really spent much time noticing how slowly the Rezound would charge on a regular USB 2.0 port. Maybe I'll give it a shot on my laptop tonight just to test it out.
Or, a simple ammeter would probably put the issue to rest definitely.. I wonder if I know anybody with one I could use.....
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Or you could use a battery charging app to verify what rate it is charging at.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using XDA
nosympathy said:
Or you could use a battery charging app to verify what rate it is charging at.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using XDA
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Which app do you use?
thatsricci said:
for sure, but i bet your phone is only commanding 500ma from it since the phone is usb 2.0 spec... I too have a power port on my laptop to charge things when the laptop is off but it doesn't get over usb 2.0 spec because of the phone :x
I've tried everything, short of trying to make, or looking for, customized drivers to overload it.
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Use a charging only cable, i.e. Naztech Micro USB Charging Cable (sorry, don't remember who initially pointed to this), and the phone will see the source as an outlet and not a usb port.
plcline said:
Use a charging only cable, i.e. Naztech Micro USB Charging Cable (sorry, don't remember who initially pointed to this), and the phone will see the source as an outlet and not a usb port.
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Well that makes sense, any USB cord without data points can only provide power and therefore the phone wouldn't be able to determine whether its a computers USB port or a charger. When the data pins are present, the phone must request a high-power mode from the computer in order to obtain the full 500mA on standard ports, or 1.5A in the case of some newer boards as I mentioned earlier.