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Ok so how in the world are these people getting such a high overclock? I've been doing some research and I just cant figure it out.
Check this link: http://www.greenecomputing.com/apps/linpack/linpack-by-device/ and scroll down to the eris section. There is one guy in there who actually pulled off a 864MHz Overclock. I know thats a hard thing to do because the highest I've ever got was 760MHz and that lasted like 30 seconds before my Eris just gave up. I've accedintly put my phone in the 800MHz range and it just froze instantly. So far the highest stable range has been 748MHz.
Does anybody now something I dont? Is there a trick to getting that high of an overclock with the Eris?
From what I understand, there's a range in the stable clock cycle range that any chip/processor can run at. When the Eris was built, the "sweet spot" (stable) speed was apparently 528MHz (although this certainly could have been selected for marketing purposes too).
Most, but not all, Erii can run safely at 710MHz and be stable. However, we have seen instances where folks have installed ROMs that were overclocked to 710MHz as a default and their phones would not complete booting-up.
Others have indeed "pushed the envelope" by running in the high 700s and even in the high- to mid-800s as you've reported. However, there is usually a cost associated with doing this in terms of decreased life-span of your CPU. That being said, there are some members that have reported having a stable phone running 800MHz or higher. Your mileage will vary, as you have seen -- it really depends on your phone.
Cheers!
I can run 806 just fine, but most of the time I just choose to run at 767 or even 748, mainly because I don't need *that* much speed versus the larger battery drain at such high speeds.
Flashing GB has recently given me the ability to OC to 806, haven't tried any further.
Well, there are two things going on.
The first is that your phone hardware is like any other macroscopic object in the universe - they have variable characteristics. Go to the store and look carefully at the apples they have for sale - pick a given variety, and you'll notice that every one of them is just slightly different from the next.
If you were to zoom in and have a look with a good microscope at the transistors in your processor chip - you would first notice that: (a) there are millions of them!, and (b) they all look very similar, but are not exactly identical. That's just the nature of things - the manufacturing processes have some amount of (hopefully well controlled) variations.
But, when it comes to computer chips executing software instructions, we definitely want them to all behave identically. So, what to do? The answer is, run them all at a sufficiently low enough speed (and a large enough voltage) that the small natural variations from transistor to transistor never make a difference in how the outputs from those transistors are interpreted.
You've heard the expression "timing is everything", yes? Nowhere does this expression apply better than in computer chip design. I'll use a stupid analogy to illustrate how this works.
Suppose you had a marching band ... not like the ordinary kind, but instead, a band full of morons. So stupid, in fact, that you teach them to play songs like this:
"You nearest two neighbors will hand you a note just before each beat of the kettle drum, and you will decide based on those notes what note to play yourself after you hear the next kettle drum beat - and then you will hand that note to your neighbor".
In this analogy, each (transistor) logic gate in the chip is a moron band member, and the kettle drum is like the system clock.
Well, each moron (transistor logic gate) in the band will need to take some time to decide what note to play next. And it is plainly obvious, that if the moron's neighbors (other morons/gates) don't hand their notes off by the time the kettle drum beats, the wrong decision will be made. Chip designers call this "setup time".
Also, since we presume that the band members are morons, they actually need to some amount of time to stare at the notes from their neighbors to make up their mind - sometimes so slowly that the beat of the kettle drum has already been heard some time ago before they make up their mind. If the neighbor moron band members were to "yank their notes away too quickly", the receiving moron band member (logic gate) might again make the wrong decision. Chip designers call second sort of timing measurement "hold time".
So, this is a very simplistic view of chip design: the designer needs to make sure that the inputs (notes) to every gate (moron band members) arrives well enough ahead of the clock (kettle drum beat), and stay stable for a short period of time after the clock (kettle drum) beat. And they also have to consider how slowly each gate (moron) can "make up his mind" - because of course, that introduces delay in passing off information to other gates (morons) at the next beat of the clock (drum).
If you followed this analogy closely, the question might have also occurred to you, "what happens if the morons in the band don't all hear the kettle drum beat at precisely the same time?" In the analogy to chip design, this is the problem of clock distribution - because at each moron (gate), the decisions are made when they individually hear the kettle drum (clock) beat. So, there could be some major trouble if a moron (gate) was supposed to receive notes (signals) from other morons (gates) that were hearing the kettle drum (clock) either much to early, or much too late, compared to their neighbors.
Now, marching bands are only a little bit like this, especially since we said in our example that only nearby neighbor morons (gates) were involved; but in chip design, both clocks and signals may need to be passed great distances away, not just to nearest neighbors.
A major part of chip design revolves around exactly these concepts: trying to compute exactly what the "setup", "hold", and "delay" time min/max values are for millions and millions of gate and signal paths in the chip, and also knowing exactly how long it will take for the signals and clocks to travel from their source to destination(s).
If only a single one of the millions of morons (gates) gets this wrong, the whole song is ruined.
So, it should be clear that if you run the system clock really, really slowly, you generally won't bump in to any setup or delay hazards (hold is a little trickier, but we can ignore that). The clock beats so slowly that signals have plenty of time to reach their destinations, and also the amount of delay through each gate is negligible compared to the long amounts of time that using a slow clock grants you.
But as you increase the clock faster and faster, you start shaving away available time for signals to get to their destinations, and come closer and closer to one of these hazards - a "setup" or "hold" violation. Not only that, but the delays across the chip - which are negligible for a slow clock - start to become really important.
Now, I spent a lot of words up there to illustrate something: the timing problem only very weakly depends what software is running on the phone, it is a function of the hardware alone. You can't "install some software" to make this problem go away. Your microprocessor will run flawlessly up until a certain clock speed, and then disaster!.
And that disaster could be the fault of a single transistor out of tens of millions - generally, a transistor which for some reason, is "weaker" than most of it's neighbors - or it has to push a signal through a line which is oddly more resistive than it should be - and therefore slower.
The second thing to be aware of is that these benchmarks are being run on a multitasking operating system - if you run them 5 times in a row, you will see that you get a different benchmark value each time you run them - because other activities on the phone and the kernel's scheduler conspired to give your benchmark app slightly less or slightly more total attention during the elapsed (wall) clock time of the benchmark.
So, since that website records the "best of the best" - make sure you run your benchmark twenty to fifty times, see if you can diddle the oom_adj value of your process while it is running, and delete all other applications from your phone so that it is the only thing running.
To illustrate that there's no "magic" going on here, I'll give you a concrete example. Two days ago I ran that Linpack app on my Eris. Here's what I did:
OS: GSB v1.2
min cpu = 748 Mhz
max cpu = 748 Mhz
governor = performance
JIT on
killed off most idle apps
And I got linpack scores that varied from 4.8 to 5.1 over two or three runs.
Now, let's compare (the best of) those results to the ones reported in the Benchmark results, but scaled to a different frequency:
(844 Mhz / 748 Mhz) * 5.1 = 5.75
Note that this is plenty close the the value reported at 844 Mhz.
If you want to convince yourself that your phone is fine, set the cpu speed min=max = whatever. Then run the benchmark a couple of times, and compare your result
(844 Mhz / whatever ) * your_best_result
And you will see that your phone is no "different" than the best Eris out there - except that it can't run at 844 Mhz. That latter part is just the luck of the draw.
bftb0
Not all CPUs are created equal. Some are stable at higher frequencies than others. This because many of the steps in CPU production rely on chemical processes. Doping, silicon wafer growth, electroplating, etc. Manufacturers use a technique called CPU binning to help them sort out the better chips.
Where I learned this:
http://www.tomshardware.com/picturestory/514-intel-cpu-processor-core-i7.html
@bftb0...that was beautiful...
If you're going to try higher rates, leave logcat running and watch for errors.
I love that analogy. Mostly because it's fun to make fun of morons, and the more the better!
bftb0, could I have your permission to repost that (up through "and therefore slower.") on FaceBook? I will note before the quote that this applies to any kind of computing device, but I wouldn't change anything you said. I would, of course, also give a linked credit to you, this thread, and XDA.
I was going to ask you in a PM, so I didn't put you on the spot in public, but you must have used to get way too many PMs since you disabled that.
I won't be offended if you say no, just thought I'd ask.
Actually most of those are faked.
There used to be 1ghz scores for the eris. They're quite easy to fake. While some phones can get quite high due to the way CPUs are processed... the linpack website is incredibly easy to fool.
roirraW "edor" ehT said:
could I have your permission to repost that (up through "and therefore slower.") on FaceBook? I will note before the quote that this applies to any kind of computing device, but I wouldn't change anything you said. I would, of course, also give a linked credit to you, this thread, and XDA.
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Sure.
+10char
bftb0 said:
Sure.
+10char
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bftb0, I never took the time back then to say thank you for your explanation. I'd like to do that now. Thank you. Obviously I know more about Android and the phones its installed on now. I have a better understanding of this subject and others you have helped with.
Also I haven't seen you around lately. I certainty hope your ok and hope to see you around again.
DINC|CM7|INCREDIKERNEL
I see him all the time. Well I don't actually see him but I do benefit a lot from his advise and insites. Also I've been able to run my Eris at 787mhz without issues but as a norm run at 710mhz.
First, I KNEW the thread title would get your attention. Second, i hear 95% of you calling BS, and I would too. In fact, I am still not sure what to make of it, and it makes ME think the number I am getting is BS.
Here's the deal. Got my replacement Prime back from repair, and like more than a few (read the RMA thread) I was lucky enough to get a replacement instead of a repair. I had sent in my Prime, originally received on 1/3 (shipped on 12/23... GROUND, from Best Buy, though I had paid for overnight. Serial was: BCOKAS**5153
Sent if for repair mostly for a cosmetic issue, scratches on screen border, but I had among the worst GPS compared to others I have seen, no sats indoors, maybe 3-4 outside, never a lock. After the 1/19 update (the one that we still haven't seen a change-log for) I started getting reasonably crappy GPS, LOL as in 4-6 sats inside, and 9-12 Outside, occasional locks, but nothing usable. My Wifi was decent, actually quite good I would say. Bluetooth did not dropout when streaming to BT headset watching Netflix.
The support folks offered to open the replacement and test it before sending, and I said: **** yeah: Test everything: GPS, Wifi/BT check for stuck pixels, make sure the serial shows, also check for light bleed. I was promised they would do all these things. Then it was overnighted to me.... All in all I felt it was a reasonably GOOD RMA/support/repair experience, especially in light of the horror stories, and stories of general incompetence we have seen.
New unit arrived, looked cosmetically perfect. One spot on back, it was glue or tape adhesive from assembly no doubt. Screen appears perfect, with just the tiniest bit of light bleed. Wifi is decent, not outstanding, but close to what I had. No stuck pixels, have yet to test BT streaming. GPS? I got another dead one. I have yet to see a SINGLE FREAKING SATELLITE, Outdoors or in, though it's cloudy here today, LOL (If it's so bad that clouds kill it, it's pretty ****ed up)
So that was a bummer. Yes, it's true I will probably not use it in the car (though I did use my OG that way once in a while, but I refuse to accept something that does not work. It is not in me to say: I can do without that.... even if I CAN, LOL. They are gonna get me another one, cause I am NOT RMA'ing this and going without it a week again... not for GPS anyway. If the WiFi was borked, it would be a different story.
One additional improvement. The power button on this one works correctly. I never knew how bad mine was, but compared to the 3 TF101's I had, it sucked. You never felt it bottom ot, or any detectable motion al all. It was just stiff and stuck, and I had to just press on it super hard to get any effect from it. The new one is perfect, the spring is stronger than the TF101 switches were, but at least it has a positive motion, with a solid detent, and you can tell when it hits bottom. Man, I can't believe how bad what I had was, and I had fully planned to live with it, LOL!
Okay so now for the weirdness. I am putting the new one through tests today, and among the, I ran Antutu. The numbers I got were nothing all that amazing, but the Processor speed threw me for a loop: 1600 Hz. WTF?????
Serial is C1OKAS**1793 I thought I was hallucinating. This thins is NOT ROOTED. I have NO performance tweaks, and nothing changed other than my 126 installed apps... How weird is this???
The numbers that I got were 10222, and a couple more in that range. This was running in Balanced mode. I switched it to Performance Mode (what used to be "normal" back in the Honeycomb days" ) rebooted, and ran Antutu again. Best number to date is 11089. Like I said, not up to par with folks that have REALLY overclocked, but somewhat better than my original... Anyone want to take a stab at explaining this to me? Maybe I am missing something super obvious?
Attached the Antutu result, and one other thing: The box sticker from a "C" serial number, for those who are curious: Check it: NO GPS LISTED!!!!I forgot to take a picture of my original box before RMA, screwed up there. Took dozens of the tablet to protect myself against claims of "CID" Customer Induced Damage, and forgot the box... grrrr.
GOOD NEWS: At least for the present the BOX LABEL still shows GPS. As many of us have discussed, as long as it SAYS GPS, we can still break chops to get them to fix it (or try to, I suppose) but what is with the question mark? Does anyone know the significance of that? That is kind of weird. I am pleased they left GPS spec on the box, expecially since I now have a completely dead GPS setup. I guess it's time to practice my Vulcan Nerve Pinch, but the few squeezes I gave it so far near the GPS Pogo Pins have been completely useless. Not a SINGLE SATELLITE HAS APPEARED YET.
An the Asus Support guy went on about how the Jan 19th patch was on this one. I said: as long as you see a few sats. send it along, He said (laughably) that it would get GPS performance as good as my TF101 did. Hmm. Well, to do that, it would need to start by getting ANY performance, LOL. Then it would need to work, in the car, with CoPilot live, all the way up the East Coast... Somehow, I don't see it happening. Sorry for the long post, but I was up late last night reading the huge tear down thread, and I had no energy for posting to a dozen separate threads today, on my latest "interesting" mix of features and performance with my new Prime. These feel like hand built devices.. every one is unique, LOL!
Hmm i have a C serial too and my GPS is fine. Little worse than my dhd but fine.
Get something like CPU Spy & see what it shows in the "unused cpu states" list at the bottom.
It's not overclocked at all, since ICS the Prime has 1.5 and 1.6 ghz in the kernel, however, they are both disabled. This is the only reason we currently have over clock scripts, with root we can enable these settings.
Sent from my HTC Desire HD using xda premium
Doktaphex said:
It's not overclocked at all, since ICS the Prime has 1.5 and 1.6 ghz in the kernel, however, they are both disabled. This is the only reason we currently have over clock scripts, with root we can enable these settings.
Sent from my HTC Desire HD using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thisssss
TF201 | XDA Premium
Antutu says mine is 1600 too.
Doktaphex said:
It's not overclocked at all, since ICS the Prime has 1.5 and 1.6 ghz in the kernel, however, they are both disabled. This is the only reason we currently have over clock scripts, with root we can enable these settings.
Sent from my HTC Desire HD using xda premium
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Click to collapse
This was what I was going to show with the cpu spy app
I just checked my prime, 1.6ghz with the latest update, no modifications.
^
Mine too
BCOKAS serial number
Lock-N-Load said:
This was what I was going to show with the cpu spy app
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Exactly. If you all use cpu spy like lock says you will see it never enters the 1.6 state. The processor has those steps built in but aren't enabled in the firmware
People in here are funny..lmao. we already went thru this when ICS first dropped. All primes were showing 1.6ghz in the stats n benchmarks. But this isn't the case. WE KNOW THIS FOR A FACT. If you take CPU spy app n look it'll show the 1.5 n 1.6Ghz speeds disbled. MEANING YOU ARE NOT OVERCLOCKED. Only real overclock you can have is if your rooted and Running ViperControl mod or using SaturnDe ATP tweaks app or running script manually from directory /system/etc..
I was the first one to assume what all of you are saying also when ICS first came out. Then we dug in n researched further n found out this wasn't the case. It did lead us to a true overclock though since we knew it was in the kernel but just disabled. Me, I'm running a "TRUE" 1.6Ghz overclock using ATP tweaks app. Mines is confirmed through CPU spy. Plus my Antutu scores are well over 13,000. So 10,000 would be bad for an overclock like that if you really had one.
SORRY TO RAIN ON YALL PARADE BUT YOURE NOT OVERCLOCKED. Only through Root n methods I listed would you "Truely" be overclocked. CPU Spy will confirm your false claim. Don't feel bad, we thought so to at first when ICS first came out but quickly realized the real truth.
No Biggie
demandarin said:
People in here are funny..lmao. we already went thru this when ICS first dropped. All primes were showing 1.6ghz in the stats n benchmarks. But this isn't the case. WE KNOW THIS FOR A FACT. If you take CPU spy app n look it'll show the 1.5 n 1.6Ghz speeds disbled. MEANING YOU ARE NOT OVERCLOCKED. Only real overclock you can have is if your rooted and Running ViperControl mod or using SaturnDe ATP tweaks app or running script manually from directory /system/etc..
I was the first one to assume what all of you are saying also when ICS first came out. Then we dug in n researched further n found out this wasn't the case. It did lead us to a true overclock though since we knew it was in the kernel but just disabled. Me, I'm running a "TRUE" 1.6Ghz overclock using ATP tweaks app. Mines is confirmed through CPU spy. Plus my Antutu scores are well over 13,000. So 10,000 would be bad for an overclock like that if you really had one.
SORRY TO RAIN ON YALL PARADE BUT YOURE NOT OVERCLOCKED. Only through Root n methods I listed would you "Truely" be overclocked. CPU Spy will confirm your false claim. Don't feel bad, we thought so to at first when ICS first came out but quickly realized the real truth.
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Click to collapse
Uhm... No rain on MY parade. I think you misread my meaning I don't Have any great desire to overclock my ATP. Maybe later, for now I AM interested in the Kernel Module for Background I/O. Cranking up the processor does diddly when the Prime lags, and freezes every so often, especially under any type of background disk activity. 1.4 single. 1.3 ghz Multicore speeds are more than sufficient. People that overclock do so often for the wrong reasons. Why should I be cranking along at 1.6 ghz to browse a news article? If I had ultimate control I would like to control WHEN the additional core kick in, not how fast they tick along, doing a lot of nothing. I did miss your discovery that with ICS, it shows these rates. Right now I would give my right arm to know how, if you do all your posting with the prime, you deal with the cursor misbehavior in text boxes, like when it jumps to the first character position in the box, or insists on jumping to a spot and only the arrow keys will override that. And why is it "mines" do you have multiple Primes?
Edit: Also, I wasn't stating that "11, 089" was a enormous score, if you read I was stating that it was a BETTER score than my returned Prime, but not what I would expect if overclocked. I'm glad your numbers are so impressive. Maybe someday MY Prime will have a Antutu score of over 13,000! That's really fast! And that helps exactly how?
Also, since the processor has those steps built in it technically isn't overclocking to enable the 1.6GHz step. You are only overclocking when you go above that.
SmartAs$Phone said:
Uhm... No rain on MY parade. I think you misread my meaning I don't Have any great desire to overclock my ATP. Maybe later, for now I AM interested in the Kernel Module for Background I/O. Cranking up the processor does diddly when the Prime lags, and freezes every so often, especially under any type of background disk activity. 1.4 single. 1.3 ghz Multicore speeds are more than sufficient. People that overclock do so often for the wrong reasons. Why should I be cranking along at 1.6 ghz to browse a news article? If I had ultimate control I would like to control WHEN the additional core kick in, not how fast they tick along, doing a lot of nothing. I did miss your discovery that with ICS, it shows these rates. Right now I would give my right arm to know how, if you do all your posting with the prime, you deal with the cursor misbehavior in text boxes, like when it jumps to the first character position in the box, or insists on jumping to a spot and only the arrow keys will override that. And why is it "mines" do you have multiple Primes?
Edit: Also, I wasn't stating that "11, 089" was a enormous score, if you read I was stating that it was a BETTER score than my returned Prime, but not what I would expect if overclocked. I'm glad your numbers are so impressive. Maybe someday MY Prime will have a Antutu score of over 13,000! That's really fast! And that helps exactly how?
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You are correct. Stock speeds are more than sufficient for everyday usage. Overclock just makes everything even more faster n snappier. Web pages load up faster, apps open up faster, etc.. Its not for everyone. But for me its so easy to do and has no ill effects on my tablet. I'm like why not harness the extra power. Its in the kernel anyways and newer tegra3 tablets down the line will have exact same chip but the 1.6Ghz speeds enabled Stock. I do find myself going back to stock speeds alot because I truly appreciate how fast this device already is stock and ill get better battery life on stock. I do get pretty good battery life also on 1.6Ghz overclock.
Also, yes, I DO ALL MY POSTINGs, from the prime. I don't experience the major slowdowns or lags some seem to experience. Mostly only occurred sporadically in stock browser. I used ATP settings to change scheduler from noop(stock) to cfq. It seemed to help for a while but then came across an issue before, where I never had before, where the whole stock browser seemed to just freeze up or stop loading. Before it might freeze n then prompt come up saying to wait or close. After the switch it didn't do any of this. So i switched back to noop I/o scheduler n everything has been running great for me. I mainly just use the ATP tweaks app now for quick access to overclocking. Less steps needed vs. Having to go into terminal emulator and pulling up vipercontrol. With ATP all I do is open up the app n press Turbo2 n I'm overclocked. I did try out the deadline I/o scheduler also but didn't seem to make much of a difference. Actually acted kinda funny at times so i switched back to Noop. As Noop is the best out of all of them. Its just some people switch to other schedulers based on their needs for prime to PC file transfers n such. So its really a preference thing and what you experience with your personal usage and benefit the change makes for you.
AS far as bench scores go, I just said that cuz you mentioned yours n wanted to show another form of proof you weren't overclocked. Now for the cursor jumping around, I know what you mean..lol. but I use thumb keyboard, split mode, n very use to using the arrow keys to correct anything. Yeah the cursor does jump around at times but it still goes where you want most of the time through touching where u want it. Plus copying n pasting is very easy for me now that o got the technique down packed. So all of this is working pretty well for me and not a hassle at all as majority of my post count had been made with my prime alone. Before I got the prime, I was posting from my Ipad n Atrix4g. I can type very fast using thumb keyboard. Love it. Also, I only have one prime. The "mines" must've been a typo.
---------- Post added at 11:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:50 PM ----------
rand4ll said:
Also, since the processor has those steps built in it technically isn't overclocking to enable the 1.6GHz step. You are only overclocking when you go above that.
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Yeah yeah..lmfao but we can't enable it stock. So its still "Technically" considered overclocked since it is higher than allowed out the box. Only if you running a "true" overclock using vipercontrol mod or ATP tweaks.
It's all good.
demandarin said:
You are correct. Stock speeds are more than sufficient for everyday usage. Overclock just makes everything even more faster n snappier. Web pages load up faster, apps open up faster, etc.. Its not for everyone. But for me its so easy to do and has no ill effects on my tablet. I'm like why not harness the extra power. Its in the kernel anyways and newer tegra3 tablets down the line will have exact same chip but the 1.6Ghz speeds enabled Stock. I do find myself going back to stock speeds alot because I truly appreciate how fast this device already is stock and ill get better battery life on stock. I do get pretty good battery life also on 1.6Ghz overclock.
Also, yes, I DO ALL MY POSTINGs, from the prime. I don't experience the major slowdowns or lags some seem to experience. Mostly only occurred sporadically in stock browser. I used ATP settings to change scheduler from noop(stock) to cfq. It seemed to help for a while but then came across an issue before, where I never had before, where the whole stock browser seemed to just freeze up or stop loading. Before it might freeze n then prompt come up saying to wait or close. After the switch it didn't do any of this. So i switched back to noop I/o scheduler n everything has been running great for me. I mainly just use the ATP tweaks app now for quick access to overclocking. Less steps needed vs. Having to go into terminal emulator and pulling up vipercontrol. With ATP all I do is open up the app n press Turbo2 n I'm overclocked. I did try out the deadline I/o scheduler also but didn't seem to make much of a difference. Actually acted kinda funny at times so i switched back to Noop. As Noop is the best out of all of them. Its just some people switch to other schedulers based on their needs for prime to PC file transfers n such. So its really a preference thing and what you experience with your personal usage and benefit the change makes for you.
AS far as bench scores go, I just said that cuz you mentioned yours n wanted to show another form of proof you weren't overclocked. Now for the cursor jumping around, I know what you mean..lol. but I use thumb keyboard, split mode, n very use to using the arrow keys to correct anything. Yeah the cursor does jump around at times but it still goes where you want most of the time through touching where u want it. Plus copying n pasting is very easy for me now that o got the technique down packed. So all of this is working pretty well for me and not a hassle at all as majority of my post count had been made with my prime alone. Before I got the prime, I was posting from my Ipad n Atrix4g. I can type very fast using thumb keyboard. Love it. Also, I only have one prime. The "mines" must've been a typo.
---------- Post added at 11:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:50 PM ----------
Yeah yeah..lmfao but we can't enable it stock. So its still "Technically" considered overclocked since it is higher than allowed out the box. Only if you running a "true" overclock using vipercontrol mod or ATP tweaks.
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I am glad that I am not alone with the cursor thing. A bit distracting, but for the most part I use the Hardware Keyboard in the dock when doing any serious typing. Like with my TF101 I like that the dock acts as a "stand" and a cover/case. and at home I tend to do a lot of wen/newsreader browsing, and posting, as you know.
I know you mentioned that battery life seems decent when running at full clock speed (okay, we know it's technically not "overclocked") so I say "full speed to avoid being corrected, LOL! I am curious about battery performance with it running at a true 1.6, and before you answer that it is not bad, can you say for certain, as in have you tested the discharge times with the Turbo2 enabled full time? Or, if you can at least say that it's not too bad, what would you peg the loss to be? 10% or more? I agree that if I had an app to easily toggle it on/off like the build in app that prioritizes processors, I would like to use it at times.. The built in one I think does the following:
Power Saving: Runs all Cores at reduced speed, I think its 600 MHz, 700 MHz when three are active, and 1 GHz when one or two are active
in "Balanced mode" - the cores are capped at 1.2 GHz
and in Performance Mode (used to be normal mod, just to keep it sounding exciting, they changed it to "Performance with ICS, LOL!) a single core runs at 1.4, or all 4 cores can run at full clip of 1.3
Not sure where they came up with these choices, but I will bet it was only after Nvidia ran them every which way, and came to these numbers as the best compromise of power and battery life. I think the Tegra 3 SOC also controls the video brightness and depth on the fly as well. All told a nice implementation. I still see lags occasionally, and games like Riptide GP freeze in a "Stutter Frame" kind of lock, till I exit to home screen, and resume the game, and it's good again.
Anyone else get that?
SmartAs$Phone said:
I am glad that I am not alone with the cursor thing. A bit distracting, but for the most part I use the Hardware Keyboard in the dock when doing any serious typing. Like with my TF101 I like that the dock acts as a "stand" and a cover/case. and at home I tend to do a lot of wen/newsreader browsing, and posting, as you know.
I know you mentioned that battery life seems decent when running at full clock speed (okay, we know it's technically not "overclocked") so I say "full speed to avoid being corrected, LOL! I am curious about battery performance with it running at a true 1.6, and before you answer that it is not bad, can you say for certain, as in have you tested the discharge times with the Turbo2 enabled full time? Or, if you can at least say that it's not too bad, what would you peg the loss to be? 10% or more? I agree that if I had an app to easily toggle it on/off like the build in app that prioritizes processors, I would like to use it at times.. The built in one I think does the following:
Power Saving: Runs all Cores at reduced speed, I think its 600 MHz, 700 MHz when three are active, and 1 GHz when one or two are active
in "Balanced mode" - the cores are capped at 1.2 GHz
and in Performance Mode (used to be normal mod, just to keep it sounding exciting, they changed it to "Performance with ICS, LOL!) a single core runs at 1.4, or all 4 cores can run at full clip of 1.3
Not sure where they came up with these choices, but I will bet it was only after Nvidia ran them every which way, and came to these numbers as the best compromise of power and battery life. I think the Tegra 3 SOC also controls the video brightness and depth on the fly as well. All told a nice implementation. I still see lags occasionally, and games like Riptide GP freeze in a "Stutter Frame" kind of lock, till I exit to home screen, and resume the game, and it's good again.
Anyone else get that?
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See I don't even have a dock n typed all that with no problem. Thumb keyboard makes typing so easy n fast on the prime. All I use is 2 thumbs to type n can do it very fast with the split keyboard mode.
AS for battery life if you ever ran the built in performance mode full time, then you will know it drains the fastest out of all modes because its running the higher speeds. Now with 1.6Ghz it drains about the same or a lil faster than performance mode. I've noticed lately I've been getting battery life even better than performance mode on my overclock. For the quick implementation of it that's easy. It can't get no easier then this. Check this out..lol. if you rooted, all you have to do is go into prime developement section. Go to ATP tweaks thread. Download and install ATP app into prime. Then open it. Allow superuser permissions. Then just press the Turbo2 tab n bam! Now you St 1.6Ghz overclock. The real one. You can use CPU spy to confirm that 1.6ghz speed is enabled.
hen if you want to disable it, just reboot tablet. Then whenever u want. All u have to do is open up that app n press turbo2 tab. There's a turbo1 also n that's for 1.5Ghz.. There is a step to do a more hardcore overclock to where you can run ALL 4 CORES @1.6GHZ at the same time all the time. Of course this burns up the battery the fastest. I doubt u ready for that yet though... lmfao just take it slow..lol use the regular overclocks. Get ATP tweaks app in developement section.
For the games, I don't have no stutters or freezes even on stock speeds.
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I've read on several ROM forums that only certain apps utilize or dual cores. go to sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1 there is a file there. When using one of the above said apps it populated cpu1 with freq folders etc, changes that one file from 0 to 1 enabling it. without one if these apps there is no freq tables for cpu1.
****my question: using Linux and cpu i ran speed tests. Over 70 tests in total. There is zero performance difference in using one app versus another versus cm performance cpu menu. I understand how it looks like two cores are only utilized from certain apps looking at the folders. However it does not change performance at all. Tests show same speed any way to control cpu. Also feels the same. Is there really a difference our is it monkey say????
Also in my tests i found using "VR" versus sio or noob or cfq to be the fastest. I didn't feel a difference however changing i/o setting.
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Their are claims that Intel’s internal handset testing has shown multi-core implementations running slower than single core, however they did not cite any particular chip. If you take a look a lot of handsets on the market, when you turn on the second core or having the second core there [on die], the [current] leakage is high enough and their power threshold is low enough because of the size of the case that it isn’t entirely clear you get much of a benefit to turning the second core on. In some of the use cases they cited, having a second core is actually a detriment, because of the way some of the software engineers have not implemented their thread scheduling properly.......
That being said, one could argue the concept that a single core chip, running a slight overclock, would produce a far better result, than a dual core application. But again, thread scheduling detracts from any governor efforts anyway...IMHO....g
Hum. I would have to agree then that in our case and in my tests dual core doesn't help nor hinder performance results but does appear to reduce battery life. Now these are my tests using two different programs to test performance and using combo of setcpu/system pro/Cm10 performance built in/Tasker to control cpu. I have done enough testing to know that on cm10 roms dual core, or so the sys files indicate, is of zero performance upgrade and appears to drain battery faster.
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Yes ...I agree with your findings.
I suppose it's safe too say then, when using the AOSP rom source, within it's normal configuration, that unless development is done beyond the current schedules, the stated performance is well ....overstated ??
Of course , CM is in a constant state of change, and I suppose that after they are finished with the functional repairs, they may focus more on the kernel.
I'd be very interested to see your same tests against another kernel, say flappjaxxx latest JB build.
I do know that he, and several other developers have made some great improvements to the source kernels, and although there will likely always be bugs present, after running my own evaluation of them, the governors are functional and do make at least a perceived difference.
But as you stated, albeit at the cost of battery life.
I choose not to overclock, as I feel that the marginal reward , as proven by your testing , and by testing from several reputable sources, is simply not worth the risk ...g
I agree Greg, i will test other kernels... Samsung ROM is probably the only one i won't test... I also don't overclock, i do under clock at work and screen off using Tasker for battery life. That does help greatly. I'll post back after testing different kernels tonight.
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troyolson92 said:
I agree Greg, i will test other kernels... Samsung ROM is probably the only one i won't test... I also don't overclock, i do under clock at work and screen off using Tasker for battery life. That does help greatly. I'll post back after testing different kernels tonight.
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Excellent....
And I suppose, since this is the Premier development site, that it would be of great value to the community if you could perhaps publish your results here ?
These aspects of the android OS have been of great interest to me for some time.
Without doubt, many other users would enjoy this information as well in forming their decision regarding roms, kernels etcetera.
Thanks to you, for your inspiring thread. I look forward to the forthcoming information ....g
Ok with out posting tons of pics i tested all available kernels (new). Results were the same. No real difference in single core versus dual core...
The following pics show how to know whether the second core is online or not and my results and how i tested this time around... I was more through the first time but results the same.
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troyolson92 said:
Ok with out posting tons of pics i tested all available kernels (new). Results were the same. No real difference in single core versus dual core...
The following pics show how to know whether the second core is online or not and my results and how i tested this time around... I was more through the first time but results the same.
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I am posting pictures for first time hope this turns out.
What do you use to disable the second core? Read this with some interest. Would like to try this with ics Rom. With oc'ing fRom 1.56 to 1.72 i see a consistent jump of 300-400 in my antutu scores. Currently on flapjaxx ics b4.
I know it is just a score, but is your score indicative of the cm builds? It just seems really low.
Here is my 'stock 1.56 speed' with ondemand governor. Want to a get a single core sample.to compare with it.
How interesting ....
I can say that both of your posted results lead toward our initial assumptions, that indeed we are seeing a consistent draw against the systems cores with little or no improvement upon activation of the second core.
Some Time ago, shortly after my note arrived, I began some simple tests with low speed dual core activation. My thought process was simply this.
Slow speed dual core operation (both cores running in the 650mhz range ) would ideally produce a faster process response.
My initial results were favorable, as I had a noticeably quicker device during screen transitions, and even in several multitasking functions.
I even went so far as to create a small script to handle this function for me. I'm no developer, and ultimately I didn't possess the programming skills I needed to complete and implement my script into an actual, flash worthy modification. And based on what we are seeing here , the results provided would indicate that my attempt is flawed due to chip current leakage, if the cores are allowed to ramp to high, and perhaps even the use of improper source schedule interference.
I'm so busy these days, I simply haven't time to explore the low speed theory further at this point.
But perhaps with your test bench already set, a simple test using my concept could be carried out??
As we know, CPU [current] thresholds are plagued by voltage bleeding at maximum CPU frequencies, but the thought has just occurred to me that [current ] bleeding is highly controllable when the CPU is driven at lower voltage inputs. And too combine a reduced frequency with reduced voltage over a multiple core platform, could, or should balance the loss and equal the output levels.
Are you up for another test ??
If so ....I suggest the following parameters.
Core "0" at 600/700 MHz
Core "1" at 600/700 MHz
Governor at "interactive "
Voltage at "-24Mv"
Then we'll see if the theory holds water.
P.S. thanks gents, I'm enjoying the heck out of this thread ......g
Mad383max, look at your folders from my pics to tell if two cores are running. Typically on after market roms one core is running until you enable the second from other software like from my pics.
Will test at lunch. I like this lower voltage idea. If i were a betting man i would guess with speeds you proposed and two cores i would guess similar to higher results. Let's see....
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troyolson92 said:
Mad383max, look at your folders from my pics to tell if two cores are running. Typically on after market roms one core is running until you enable the second from other software like from my pics.
Will test at lunch. I like this lower voltage idea. If i were a betting man i would guess with speeds you proposed and two cores i would guess similar to higher results. Let's see....
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Agreed......
I'm excited to see the results....and thank you !!...g
I have to reflash ROM so pics might be a little awhile. I messed up some things and somehow lost my Google account. reflashing gapps and ROM didn't fix it.
Anyway results were 2600 something at 700 both cores underclocked 25... Slightly more than half of normal speed at slightly less than half clock speed... For kicks i tried 1.5 clock speed undervolted 75 (most my phone will go without lockups) and got 5k results. Best yet.
You are on to something. Less voltage = more speed. I now need to try single core undervolted. Give me couple hours for pics etc.. Got to get phone working with Google again and spend time with wife. She hates me on the phone.
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No worries Troy. ...
Take all the time you need.....
I do appreciate the excellent testing you have undertaken. I know that the results are going to benefit the community.
And i am highly intrigued by your first run under the parameter set you've chosen...
It's leading down the exact path that i suspected. ..
I'll talk with you soon. ...g
A few additional items that I have failed to consider during my testing, could weigh heavily on our testing results and should be considered during testing.
They are, battery power levels, charger connection and type....(wall/PC), and rom power save levels.
I do know that the android OS will adjust itself during varying power levels, much like our setting the CPU to UC/UV settings, only on a much smaller scale.
I feel its important that we are able to control the input levels in the following way...
Battery to full charge, with no charger connection, and if the cable is needed we use a non powered port. Next would be controlling the rom power settings if the rom contains them, as found in most GB and ICS builds.
If these baselines are met, we should be able to greater rely on the mark scores we are seeing. These variables could explain why we continue to see so many peaks and valleys in scores when two users share the same builds, on like devices.....(speculation)..
Additionally, are we able to control the background processes to the extent, they will remain constant for testing?
Sorry for the rant.....Im just concerned about the ability to quantify our findings once testing is complete.
Ive started some tests on my end as well, and certainly do not want to give you the impression that I expect you to do all of the work.
After all, you did ask first....lol and I feel like Im dumping this effort into your lap.
And please forgive my pathetic punctuation in this post, as my keyboard of choice decided to fail tonight....g
Battery does effect performance greatly.... Also noticed none of the apps to test are very repeatable. Fluctuation seemed to be about 100.
Having issues up loading pics from phone, I'm away from laptop for a few days.
In the end i found -12 v single core to provide the best battery and performance that was equal to dual core. I tried over under voting many differences.... over voting did nothing, under voting a little made small preformance improvements. I believe some of fluctuations are related to app, battery, etc.... In the end it's too say dual core has no speed improvement. I would be cool to test an app that it's specifically for dual core. I am better off without the second core speed is same anyway, and battery is much better. There is definitely voltage leakage..
Let me know what y'all find in your tests....
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Outstanding !!
I appreciate the hard work !!
So it seems we are better off using the note running a single core and about 12mv under volt.
And I'm of the belief that our second core is rather pointless...unless it can be proven that the second core is absolutely needed to perform a function.
And so far, I haven't found anything I use that requires activation of the second core.
I'll continue my tests, but the way it looks now, Intel is right, and Samsung pushed a dual core chip to this device for nothing more than a market share increase. As it is quite clear that the device does "not " need it to function well, and at a Very respectable speed.
Now we have a quad core version, and I highly question the motivation behind that move, beyond marketing as well.
These statements may offend some, and folks will certainly disagree, but if you want a great running device and great battery life, you need a single core chip ...IMHO ....g
Agreed Greg. Someone will get upset when they do thirty own tests and realize what we see, and what you said, good marketing by Samsung. Numbers don't lie and i did tests as controlled as possible. Even my battery shows in the picks... A true second useful core would have easily bested the single core results. Plus undervolting tella the bigger story...
I must say though. It had been very useful.. My battery life is so much better now!!!
For me the only true performance gain had been from v6 supercharger.
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Fyi: same exact results using cm9 versus cm10. Neither ROM benchmarks faster than the other as of 9/16 cm9 and 9/15 cm10 builds. Dual core zero performance upgrade.
Tried quadrant again and result very up to 20% back to back so that app is useless to me.
Can someone try a Samsung based ROM. I'm curious add to a difference in roms. just use antutu benchmark and set cpu however you wish to whatever you wish just report cpu clock speed, type of test, and results
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Out of town this week Troy, but i'm gonna bump it for ya...g
Hello. I have been running CyanogenMod 10.1-10.2 since I got my device back in July, everything has been working great. Bugfixes have been lovely and all that good stuff; however one thing continues to annoy me. I cannot underclock my device properly. Let's say I go into the normal CyanogenMod Performance settings. Then I put my CPU to something like 1024MHz, then I see how the results went over with PerfMon from Chainfire, it will underclock only on Core 0, the rest of the cores still run up to the standard limit, 1890MHz. The only way I can somewhat successfully underclock is by setting my CPU to 594MHz or lower, at which point it will disable all cores except Core 0.
This has been annoying me for a while, I am running the standard CyanogenMod kernel, and recently I tried the Elite Kernel. The only thing the Elite Kernel did was remove the ability to disable the other 3 cores when below 594MHz. (And add the ability to go up to 2.2GHz, but who wants to overclock the Galaxy S4 yet?)
It may be worth mentioning if I try to tweak individual core settings with Tasker, on Core 0 it will let me set a CPU frequency, then if I go in and try to set something on Core 1, it won't have any of the default values for anything, and I enter them manually, then it will give me some errors about not finding the governor I said and stuff like that.
Anyone who knows any way to fix this (Custom kernels, different ROMs (Only for curiosity, I would stick to CyanogenMod anyway), etc) would be greatly appreciated.
Anyone who questions my motives for underclocking, question away. I don't like how my battery life is next to junk when I'm not even touching my phone all day, and the GS4 hardly needs the CPU it has, so I plan to use Tasker to set up a bunch of power saving mechanisms.
I suppose I do have one other question. Will underclocking even benefit me if I can't modify the voltage settings? Are they modified automatically when you're running at lower frequencies? (You would hope so, considering it's kinda a mobile device with a power source that isn't infinite). But if it won't help me without lowering my voltage (and if it isn't modified automatically) is there any good way to do that with a Tasker based setup, so it can be switched instantly whenever I do something? For example, launching a music player. All 4 cores shoot up to 1890MHz (I know they eventually settle down to lower frequencies, but for example's sake), I would rather have it so when I launched the app, Tasker would come in and set my CPU to ~800MHz with only a single core. Everything might slightly lag, but it would work and I would potentially get better battery life while listening to music.
Also, I never tested this on TouchWiz, as I didn't stay on it for more than 30 minutes after I got my device.
I am running the latest CyanogenMod nightly in case it matters (20131002, and it'll be 20131003 tomorrow unless it breaks something)
Thanks in advance to anyone who can possibly help with this. I'm sorry if the post is unorganized, but I hope it's understandable.
[bump]
Forgive me for my ignorance since I'm on ME7 and unable to flash CM10.x yet, but couldn't you just try different governors instead? On my old phone I was using lulzactive and it gave me great battery life, and you could tweak all the values any way you want for more performance or battery life.
I also remember when I experimented with undervolting and much to my dismay it turns out it made my battery life WORSE because of all the error correcting it was doing.
I get at least a days worth of moderate/heavy use on mine and with how fast it charges I don't really care about battery life but I'm curious how much actual gain you'll get for your efforts
Well, I was trying to tweak the CPU frequencies, but they always seemed to be overrite. To put the numbers into perspective, let's say I changed the max frequency to 787 MHz. If I start switching between apps, I'll see the max frequency ramp up to 1.44 GHz and then back. I tried changing input_boost_ms to 0 but didn't work.
My guess is that there's a daemon running somewhere. Any ideas?
Thanks
Here's my advice. Don't play around with these things. In this day in age there is simply no need to play with frequencies and whatnot. Gone are the days where oem's couldn't make a decent kernel. It is ridiculous to see how many people seem to think they're an expert on kernel's and uc/uv etc. There is a reason that the frequencies are set and certified by google before release. You're not going to gain anything by touching them. Our phone's are so powerful there simply is no need to waste time potentially damaging your device.
markbencze said:
Here's my advice. Don't play around with these things. In this day in age there is simply no need to play with frequencies and whatnot. Gone are the days where oem's couldn't make a decent kernel. It is ridiculous to see how many people seem to think they're an expert on kernel's and uc/uv etc. There is a reason that the frequencies are set and certified by google before release. You're not going to gain anything by touching them. Our phone's are so powerful there simply is no need to waste time potentially damaging your device.
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Hey, but what's the fun in that XD
Personally, most of the time I'm more tolerant to trading off performance for battery juice, which isn't everyone wants, so it's not really reflected in the stock parameters. Sure, in terms of raw performance/battery ratio, my preferences would probably be lower, but in terms of utility, it's a whole different story.
Do whatever you want. I really couldn't care less. I gave you advice when you asked. It is clear you lack experience yet think you're clever enough to mess with cpu frequencies and in the end you will gain absolutely nothing. so have at it. I've seen many inexperienced people cry for help when they fry their phones from doing things they think they understand.