This last weekend I was fustrated while vacationing when my Prime could not hold onto the hotel WiFi connection because of the distance to the router, yet my HD2 phone had no problems. This was the first time poor Wifi affected me. That got me thinking....
Looking at the fix made to the T700 to improve Wifi signal (and GPS), why couldn't a similar DIY mod be done to an existing Prime's back? I dont think cutting a slice off the top of the aluminum back is a doable option, but what about just cutting or drilling a large hole over the antennas, and filling in the hole with plastic or epoxy. This could look similar to the black oval plastic "wifi window" on the 3rd generation iPod Touch.
I'm thinking of trying this but wanted some input from others before trying. I looked at the other hardware mod thread here, but that concentrated on adding external antennas. According to that thread, once you removed the back, Wifi improved dramatically.
I think this was discussed before..but if you are feeling brave enough, let us know how it turns out man
This idea has been talked about in great length, but general consensus was that it would be too difficult to add a plastic window to the back of the Prime, because all of the hardware physically attaches to the aluminum back plate of the Prime.
You you be voiding your warranty by taking the device apart. And there is a very good chance you would render the device 100% non-working while doing the mod.
If the WiFi really doesn't meet your needs, return the tablet.
I'm glad I sent mine in to get it fixed, I am getting mine back tomorrow and that will make 10 days. I figured they would be pretty quick at fixing the wifi by now
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
almightywhacko said:
If the WiFi really doesn't meet your needs, return the tablet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, but this is not an option for a second hand Prime with an unlocked bootloader.
I'll have to take another look at the tear down pictures and video to get a feel of the space between the electronics connected to the back and the back itself. I have no fear of eventually opening up my Prime as I have opened up many phones in the past.
I had the same problem while on vacation in Mexico, my HTC Eco 3d picked up the hotels wifi no problem but my Asus didn't. I'm so happy I picked up a Asus WL-330N3G portable wifi router based on someone suggestion here, I wouldn't been able to work without.
Basically placed the portable router where I had the strongest signal in the room, and was able to use my prime anywhere in the room. An on top of it the router is very small, and can be powered by a USB port as well. As a bonus I use it as a gaming adapter for my ps3 when I'm home.
I think getting a portable router is a lot easier option then modding the back of the Prime.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 2
Axe-08 said:
I'm glad I sent mine in to get it fixed, I am getting mine back tomorrow and that will make 10 days. I figured they would be pretty quick at fixing the wifi by now
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Make a thread tomorrow when you get it back. And tell US if it improved.
Seriously .
ive said this before but could another idea be wait for the 700 to come out and then wait for some inner photos to be taken. If they look similar to the prime then could we not just try and buy a 700 backplate and try and fix it to the prime?
mardukeme said:
I. I'm so happy I picked up a Asus WL-330N3G portable wifi router based on someone suggestion here, I wouldn't been able to work without.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where did you get it from? My wifi signal in my bedroom is terrible and moving the router doesn't seem to be an option
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using XDA Premium HD app
What about drilling small holes in the area where the wifi antenna is, creating a sort of a mesh? Could be very easily done with a drill with a small enough head by very carefully and slowly drilling into the aluminum.
I don't know if that would improve the wifi signal, but it is doable.
Might want to consider one thing though- People have been getting different wifi and GPS readings on unmodded primes, meaning that the problem is not necessarily the aluminum cover, but rather the quality of construction, components, etc.
Eliad Kimhy said:
What about drilling small holes in the area where the wifi antenna is, creating a sort of a mesh? Could be very easily done with a drill with a small enough head by very carefully and slowly drilling into the aluminum.
I don't know if that would improve the wifi signal, but it is doable.
Might want to consider one thing though- People have been getting different wifi and GPS readings on unmodded primes, meaning that the problem is not necessarily the aluminum cover, but rather the quality of construction, components, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry, Faradays law says this will not work, for RF, mesh or solid is the same.
The contact area of the pingions on the motherboard to the antenna are realy tiny,I think replacing the pingions on the mainboard for small coax will improve, The wifi chip is at the other end of the tablet, the signals have to cross the entire device. I even saw they route the wifi signal trough a series of PCB trace and cables to the place where they connect to the antenna. I think replacing these connections by new a cable with at one end an MMCX and the other end solderd to the antenna, will improve the reception.
otispowell said:
Where did you get it from? My wifi signal in my bedroom is terrible and moving the router doesn't seem to be an option
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using XDA Premium HD app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I got it on eBay for $50 dollars here's a link to it.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ASUS-WL-330...345650?pt=COMP_EN_Routers&hash=item1c21fd7f72
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 2
The other thread linked in the original post has all information regarding this topic.
Creating something like the 700 would be basically too complicated (though never impossible)
We won't know if the 700 back plate will match up until it is released (i doubt it is worth the work)
The external antenna works wonders, and can be made "removable"
A simple wire from the pogo pin that is isolated from the glass/aluminum will increase connectivity
Here is another link for good reading...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1479664
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium
I've read through both of those threads, the one I posted and the second one posted above. Unfortunately they both went the route of replacing the existing antennas with wires or external connections. The closest one to my idea was this:
Originally Posted by Lock-N-Load
Really though, in the end, it seems if someone wanted to get really hardcore, they could dremel a slice out of the back that is tall yet narrow, go to home depot and get some plexiglass, sand it down to obscure the view into the device, and epoxy that in place and place the wire into that as a window. Totally possible IF you wanted to kick it up a few levels now that the hard work is done and shows an antenna wire can hep. Essentially steal Apples' idea but keep it simple and make it home grown.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like I said, slicing off the top of the back and covering it with plexiglass is probably too much. I'm thinking more like just a hole, over the existing antennas, covering it with epoxy, and making a Wifi Window like that on an iPod Touch:
mardukeme said:
I got it on eBay for $50 dollars here's a link to it.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ASUS-WL-330...345650?pt=COMP_EN_Routers&hash=item1c21fd7f72
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks =]
are there any other items that work the same but are cheaper?
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using XDA Premium HD app
nonpaq said:
This last weekend I was fustrated while vacationing when my Prime could not hold onto the hotel WiFi connection because of the distance to the router, yet my HD2 phone had no problems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why didnt you just tether to your HD2?
i just had a great idea. Based off what the linked thread was earlier,
It would be a handle on both sides, makes your TFP like a briefcase and eliminate the ugly/bulky antennas. Of course it won't be as powerful, but this would let us put antennas in the handle and increase reception. of course, it would require holes to be drilled in the back, but we can easily stick that on (and it would be very strong). It can be easily created with fiberglass, a color could easily be created and the brush strokes could be done as well. and a little gloss could be added after we have painted/added the brush strokes and get pretty close
biggem001 said:
i just had a great idea. Based off what the linked thread was earlier,
It would be a handle on both sides, makes your TFP like a briefcase and eliminate the ugly/bulky antennas. Of course it won't be as powerful, but this would let us put antennas in the handle and increase reception. of course, it would require holes to be drilled in the back, but we can easily stick that on (and it would be very strong). It can be easily created with fiberglass, a color could easily be created and the brush strokes could be done as well. and a little gloss could be added after we have painted/added the brush strokes and get pretty close
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very nice design The handle is a great idea. All you need to do is run some wires through the handle. That is all my WIFI attached antenna are doing in my "Optimus Prime" mod. As long as you get the wires away and above the metal backplate your in business. You can check out my link in thread for the original mod. GL m8
Here is pic of two wires coming from WIFI pogo pins. Raised out and above
the metal backplate. All you would need to do is run wires through a nice handle and you will get amazing wifi or GPS.
willumpie82 said:
I'm sorry, Faradays law says this will not work, for RF, mesh or solid is the same.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've read on this forum that some (or one) devices (not the TFP obviously) have their wifi antenna located behind the speaker grill in order to allow proper wifi reception.
Related
So, I've been spending the better part of an hour scouring over the Anandtech teardown gallery of the prime trying to get a decent understanding of the GPS/WiFi antennas and the underlying design flaws which contribute to these features messing up; namely the giant metal shield of a cover and the placement of the antennas. They're not exactly in a bad place, but I guess Asus assumed that if you were using WiFi/GPS with your tablet then you would always do so with the screen facing the AP/satellites. In reality, mine at least, it's the back of the device generally pointing to these things. Maybe I place my network hubs in strange places and enjoy astronomy apps too much?
Now on to the actual question, especially to any of you who have gotten the device and been brave enough to peek inside it yourself; would creating my own plastic windows/metal grates within the aluminum backing actually help anything? Do these antennas broadcast a 360 degree signal or are they directional? The motherboard itself would allow decent signal to get to the transmitter wouldn't it, so long as the case does?
My order isn't set to ship for another month, but I think I'll be getting this tablet regardless of the known issues, though the audio/video problems with the miniHDMI port make me a bit nervous. This thing will still be a power-house even as better spec'd tablets come out, just like my single-core Desire Z is still pretty relevant and decent. Just not top-of-the-line, and it wasn't for any real amount of time, but that's just how these things go.
Ideally, the antenna would couple to the whole backplate, making a big slot antenna (but then it starts to risk being too directional). It's just as probably that the issue is noise or feeble pogo-pin connectors.
If you do make a cut-out, it needs to be about 1 wavelength larger than the outline of the antenna (and you risk de-tuning the antenna if it was designed to operate in close proximity to a groundplane)
tshoulihane said:
Ideally, the antenna would couple to the whole backplate, making a big slot antenna (but then it starts to risk being too directional). It's just as probably that the issue is noise or feeble pogo-pin connectors.
If you do make a cut-out, it needs to be about 1 wavelength larger than the outline of the antenna (and you risk de-tuning the antenna if it was designed to operate in close proximity to a groundplane)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Coupling to the backplate, though increasing power decreases accuracy doesn't it?
I hadn't thought of the pogo-pins as a possible culprit, that's certainly possible.
Couldn't I make a couple windows and retro-fit either some plastic or plexi-glass into the design? Would that help keep from de-tuning, especially if kept to a small size with accurate positioning?
Thank you for the response, I know nothing of the finer details on GPS and other wireless signals.
*Edit: After re-reading and thinking, I actually understand what you're saying. Plastic or no, any cutout would need to be a very specific size larger than the antenna itself which would take more than I would be able to do I'm sure. Oh well, I know I'll still love this thing, so long as the miniHDMI works properly, I'll be happy. Phone's GPS works like a dream.
And now I apologize. I found it odd not finding topics on this, but now I've found them and have a bit more of an understanding on the matter. Namely that the cpu seems to have a strong possibility of creating interference for the chip. The casing apparently just worsens the issue.
Sent from my HTC Vision using xda premium
buxtahuda said:
And now I apologize. I found it odd not finding topics on this, but now I've found them and have a bit more of an understanding on the matter. Namely that the cpu seems to have a strong possibility of creating interference for the chip. The casing apparently just worsens the issue.
Sent from my HTC Vision using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How sure are we about this? I've read that Apple puts their WiFi antenna behind the black plastic logo on their WiFi-only models for exactly this reason. Not only that, but on the 3g models they simply have all the wireless modules placed on top of the device where they are covered with black plastic as well.
It seems to me that a stupid plastic apple cutout - a complex geometric shape - is not likely capable of being as "tuned" as a rectangular cutout. Yet, I think it's safe to say that the 3G and WiFi versions of the iPad have similar if not identical WiFi performance. That is to say, I don't think manufactures are using the aluminum back for anything other than looking pretty. I think it's safe to hack away at.
Thoughts?
JazzMac251 said:
I don't think manufactures are using the aluminum back for anything other than looking pretty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe for some heat dispersion too?
I wish they would start selling the back plate only (like they do with ipods etc)
That way i'm sure someone could cutout a shape and try the antenna behind a plastic window etc, but youd always have the option to put the original back.
I wouldnt mind modding mine after the garantee has ran out.
I think Asus might consider making an after-market backplate that they would fit to your Prime after they have fully tested the issues.
Docaroo said:
I think Asus might consider making an after-market backplate that they would fit to your Prime after they have fully tested the issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been thinking that even if Asus didn't some third party will. And I'm willing to get to cutting the day it arrives if I can determine it'll help. However, I don't want just an open grate for dust and junk to get into. Maybe just a thin fabric filter, or should I close it up with some plastic/plexiglass and epoxy?
Sent from my HTC Vision using xda premium
buxtahuda said:
I've been thinking that even if Asus didn't some third party will. And I'm willing to get to cutting the day it arrives if I can determine it'll help. However, I don't want just an open grate for dust and junk to get into. Maybe just a thin fabric filter, or should I close it up with some plastic/plexiglass and epoxy?
Sent from my HTC Vision using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see why plastic wouldn't work. It's what the iPad has and it seems to work out in that case.
You should consider cross-posting this in the "General" forum. It is a "question", but the General forum gets a LOT more eyeballs.
JazzMac251 said:
I don't see why plastic wouldn't work. It's what the iPad has and it seems to work out in that case.
You should consider cross-posting this in the "General" forum. It is a "question", but the General forum gets a LOT more eyeballs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i agree, this post should be on general... this would be a great solution, a homemade plastic ipad-like hole... we need it, and if third party doesnt do this, we will have to do it...
well, but anyone tested the device without the case to see the real power of the wifi-gps-bt ?
Yakandu said:
i agree, this post should be on general... this would be a great solution, a homemade plastic ipad-like hole... we need it, and if third party doesnt do this, we will have to do it...
well, but anyone tested the device without the case to see the real power of the wifi-gps-bt ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will be, but it's still a good two-four weeks before I have mine. All mentions of it I've seen in general never get answered, I haven't seen anyone comment on whether or not they've tried without the backing. Probably because most aren't willing to try and heat up the glue to do so or damage the thing in the process...
Some expertise required
Does the aluminium back plate attenuate both wifi and gps signals? From what I have read it seems to be confirmed that this is the situation, although other factors such as internal interference have NOT been discounted, nor has the connection method (gold pogo pin) between motherboard and the antennae (blackened out pcb strip). I have noted on the TF101 Transformer teardown, a very similar placement of both WIFI and GPS antennae to that on the TF201 Transformer Prime - near the top edge and adjacent each other. Looking at similarities between models, an obvious and perhaps too simple explination would be the aluminium back plate. There does seem to be some interest in experimenting with making some holes (similar to the speaker grill), on the back plate in front of the antennae in the hope that it MAY improve reception. I have read numerous posts and was hoping that someone may have tried this. I don't want to hear about the merits of having or not having a GPS and how it matters to them personaly etc - lets focus people, but whether someone has had the ability and knowledge to try it. I am unsure given the wavelength of both GPS and WIFI (1.2 / 1.5 Ghz) whether mutliple small holes would do it. I feel that a transparent plastic window may be required. I do not believe the back plate is used a coupled ground plate etc. and it is used purely as the chasis. Come on - there has to be some smart engineering graduates/professionals who are willing to give this a go...it would have been nice if they were paid by ASUS but that seems unlikely. Point to note - that the GPS and WIFI antennas (there are two for the WIFI on the TF201) would be obtaining some reception through the front gorilla glass and plastic (on which the antennae are mounted). My question is - what and IF modifications are necessary to the back plate to obtain better reception. Any ideas?
I have not seen a single test where anyone proved it was the back plate. Anyone have a link to a test that shows the prime navigating successfully without the back plate?
I have had my Prime for a week now and it was working perfectly. I got the ICS update and everything was working even better. I never had any wifi connection issues. Today the prime will suddenly no longer connect to wifi. It appears to not be picking up the wifi signals anymore. When it does manage to pick up a signal it shows up as a small dot and still can't connect. It wouldn't connect at work this morning and when I came home it connected for about a minute and then dropped connection and would not connect again. I rebooted several times, tried a hard reset and then finally resorted to a factory reset. It still did no good. My unit was previously picking up my wifi signals with full strength usually and sometimes 3 bars. Not sure what happened but I guess I'll just take it back to Office Depot for a refund while I still have time. Not sure what I'll do now because i REALLY liked the prime during the time that it was working right.
If you're under warranty Asus will tell you to return it for a fix and hopefully their turnaround time is measured in days, not weeks or months. Sorry for you, it seems the Prime is not as durable as I thought, poor quality control is probably the culprit.
I would go the repair route but I'm kind of afraid that I'll then get stuck with it if they can't fix it and I've missed my return window at office depot. The bad thing is that there is no other tablet that I'd be satisfied with now that I've experienced how smoothly the quad core tegra 3 Prime runs. I had a Xoom before the Prime and I gave it to my fiancee after the Prime arrived. I really liked my Xoom too but the Prime is a MUCH BETTER device (when it worked).
fella1 said:
I have had my Prime for a week now and it was working perfectly. I got the ICS update and everything was working even better. I never had any wifi connection issues. Today the prime will suddenly no longer connect to wifi. It appears to not be picking up the wifi signals anymore. When it does manage to pick up a signal it shows up as a small dot and still can't connect. It wouldn't connect at work this morning and when I came home it connected for about a minute and then dropped connection and would not connect again. I rebooted several times, tried a hard reset and then finally resorted to a factory reset. It still did no good. My unit was previously picking up my wifi signals with full strength usually and sometimes 3 bars. Not sure what happened but I guess I'll just take it back to Office Depot for a refund while I still have time. Not sure what I'll do now because i REALLY liked the prime during the time that it was working right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haven't heard of this issue yet, that is a new one. If you are in warranty, take it back and get a full refund or a replacement. If not, contact Asus.
However, good luck with contacting Asus and getting a timely response. I am on day 3 of just waiting for a return email. I did it through their own messaging service on their site, not regular email. I would appreciate someone responding to my simple questions, but they must not have the time right now.
3rdamention said:
Haven't heard of this issue yet, that is a new one. If you are in warranty, take it back and get a full refund or a replacement. If not, contact Asus.
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know that is why I was so shocked when it happened this morning at work. I was hoping that it was just something going on with the wifi connection at my office. I now that there are Primes with bad wifi out there but mine doesn't just have a bad connection now, it can't connect at all. I figured that I had been lucky enough to get one of the good units considering how incredibly well it had worked over the past week. At least I've only had it for seven days so I can still return it to Office Depot. I just hate the thought of being tabletless now. Guess I gave my Xoom to my fiancee a little too fast.
Well my prime got to the point where it would connect when I was next to the router but would either drop out or lose signal strength when I moved away. I have scheduled for a return to office depot. Yesterday I found another prime in stock at hh gregg so I picked it up. This one once again has excellent wifi service just like my first one did for awhile. I am hoping that this one keeps it. I still can't understand what happened to my first one. The only thing that I had done before the wifi crapped out was install a memory card and I don't see how that could have had anything to do with it. This experience has shown me though that the prime is definitely capable of giving good wifi service and that there is something going on other than the aluminum backplate. Having seen both sides of it I can see why no one would be satisfied with the wifi performance it had when it went bad on my first one. Maybe it is a mechanical issue with the wifi antenna connections coming loose in the system? I don't know how likely that is but it is the only thing I can think of based on my experiences with the issue
It very well could be the antenna wires are coming undone from the Wi-Fi adapter it would allow you to connect right next to a router but not much further away.
Sorry to ask the obvious, but did you power down your Prime before starting again to see if the problem was still there. I'm sure this was the first thing you did, but just checking.
The wifi on my Prime cut off last night but it came back after a quick reset (holding down the power button for 13 seconds or so).
Yes I powered down, tried a hard reset and finally tried a factory reset and none of that helped with the problem. It was a complete night and day difference in performance that was quite shocking. As I said if people are experiencing that kind of performance from the beginning then I can totally understand the complaints. So far the new unit is having the same great performance as my other one had at first.
From looking at the Prime teardown, your wifi loss may be due to a loose connection. Instead of running a pigtail directly from the chip lead-out to the antenna, the Prime uses spring-loaded pogo pins (1st pic) as intermediate connectors.
Second pic shows the pogo pins for the main wifi and GPS antennae. The spring-loaded pins are pressed against the copper pads of the respective antenna (3rd pic). Suffice it to say, this isn't the most secure way to connect the antennae.
Aside from possible broken or intermittent connection, it also looks like a high-loss connection, and could contribute to attenuated signal reception. My guess is that this may be the main culprit of wifi/GPS woes, with the metal shell being a contributing factor.
The 4th pic below is a U.FL connector that's normally used for antenna pigtails. The lip has an outer overhang for a secure connection.
My guess is that the tablet was bumped and something shifted a bit, breaking the antenna connection.
This is FYI only, as the unit isn't user-serviceable. It does look like a simple fix, but you'd have to open the unit. Edit: You can try smacking the top edge of the tablet a few times and see if it will jar back into place. Worth a try.
Pogo pins used as intermediate connectors for wifi & GPS antennae
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The two pogo pins for main wifi and GPS. The spring-loaded heads are pressed against the antennae's pads to make the connection.
The main wifi & GPS antenna, with copper pads to connect to the pins
U.FL connector, normally used for antenna connection
e.mote;21489600
My guess is that the tablet was bumped and something shifted a bit said:
NICE
Heck yea it's worth a try!
And to the OP - since it only just happened today, I think I would wait a day or two to see what else might develop. I know you've tested it out in two different places, but it came on so suddenly, maybe (hopefully ) it will go away?
Unless of course waiting a day or seeing what might be different tomorrow would interfere with an exchange or return policy. If you are still within a window and are out of time soon, then you gotta do what you gotta do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
e.mote said:
From looking at the Prime teardown, your wifi loss may be due to a loose connection. Instead of running a pigtail directly from the chip lead-out to the antenna, the Prime uses spring-loaded pogo pins (1st pic) as intermediate connectors.
Second pic shows the pogo pins for the main wifi and GPS antennae. The spring-loaded pins are pressed against the copper pads of the respective antenna (3rd pic). Suffice it to say, this isn't the most secure way to connect the antennae.
Aside from possible broken or intermittent connection, it also looks like a high-loss connection, and could contribute to attenuated signal reception. My guess is that this may be the main culprit of wifi/GPS woes, with the metal shell being a contributing factor.
The 4th pic below is a U.FL connector that's normally used for antenna pigtails. The lip has an outer overhang for a secure connection.
My guess is that the tablet was bumped and something shifted a bit, breaking the antenna connection.
This is FYI only, as the unit isn't user-serviceable. It does look like a simple fix, but you'd have to open the unit. Edit: You can try smacking the top edge of the tablet a few times and see if it will jar back into place. Worth a try.
Pogo pins used as intermediate connectors for wifi & GPS antennae
The two pogo pins for main wifi and GPS. The spring-loaded heads are pressed against the antennae's pads to make the connection.
The main wifi & GPS antenna, with copper pads to connect to the pins
U.FL connector, normally used for antenna connection
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
very interesting info as some users have flexed device in that area n now supposedly have good wifi n GPS now. this will affect the signal strength more tthan the backplate.
e.mote said:
This is FYI only, as the unit isn't user-serviceable. It does look like a simple fix, but you'd have to open the unit. Edit: You can try smacking the top edge of the tablet a few times and see if it will jar back into place. Worth a try.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Before packaging my Prime up to be sent to ASUS for RMA. I did exactly that, I did the black part of the screen at the top with my kunckles kind of hard a few times.
My signal went from 35-40% where I was sitting at to around almost 70%.
demandarin said:
very interesting info as some users have flexed device in that area n now supposedly have good wifi n GPS now. this will affect the signal strength more tthan the backplate.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You really can't use terms like "good" and "more" beacause they're all relative. "Good" compared to what Wi-Fi/GPS is with other devices or against other Prime's? And until it's known for sure that all devices are suffering some type of signal issue saying the unproven pogo pin expose is "more" or less an issue than anything else is premature. It's impossible to compare Wi-Fi performance on a forum because each testing condition is different and there's no baseline to have a common discussion around. To see if there's differences between Prime's a couple of them need to be tested side-by-side at the same time.
hang in there demadarin - I think Barry is weakening and we will eventually convince him there are potential issues beyond the back plate.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
clenz said:
hang in there demadarin - I think Barry is weakening and we will eventually convince him there are potential issues beyond the back plate.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm like Spock on Star Trek - it's all about logic. It seems more and more people are having their signal change when squeezing above where the antennas are. That certainly points to a common issue. But even the hand-picked Prime Asus sent to Anand to replace his defective sample still peformed poorly against the TF1. So the metal back cover's not an innocent victim (yet).
BarryH_GEG said:
I'm like Spock on Star Trek - it's all about logic. It seems more and more people are having their signal change when squeezing above where the antennas are. That certainly points to a common issue. But even the hand-picked Prime Asus sent to Anand to replace his defective sample still peformed poorly against the TF1. So the metal back cover's not an innocent victim (yet).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With one minor difference, Anandtech never flexed his Prime. You couldn't blame the pogos so the backplate took the hit.
---------- Post added at 04:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:07 PM ----------
I mean he couldn't blame the ...
tedr44 said:
With one minor difference, Anandtech never flexed his Prime. You couldn't blame the pogos so the backplate took the hit.
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Click to collapse
Look at it this way, when Apple move the antenna from behind a plastic disk on the iPad1 to behind a metal speaker grill on the iPad2, performance took a hit. The Prime has no opening at all for a signal to travel through and Asus makes less in a year than Apple spends on R&D. Ergo, the metal back cover is and will remain a factor.
BarryH_GEG said:
Look at it this way, when Apple move the antenna from behind a plastic disk on the iPad1 to behind a metal speaker grill on the iPad2, performance took a hit. The Prime has no opening at all for a signal to travel through and Asus makes less in a year than Apple spends on R&D. Ergo, the metal back cover is and will remain a factor.
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Click to collapse
Agreed, but by how much in comparison to a tarnished pogo contact? And as time goes by, the influence of the latter will be increasingly pronounced. BTW, the TF101 does not use the pogos, the antennas are hardwired. I also noticed that the mainframe is made of solid aluminum and yet the 101 has never had any rf problems like the Prime.
With users experiencing sudden change in signal level after making good contact with the antenna, I'd say the evidence of inconsistency in performance is pretty convincing as to the real cause of the fault.
BarryH_GEG said:
You really can't use terms like "good" and "more" beacause they're all relative. "Good" compared to what Wi-Fi/GPS is with other devices or against other Prime's? And until it's known for sure that all devices are suffering some type of signal issue saying the unproven pogo pin expose is "more" or less an issue than anything else is premature. It's impossible to compare Wi-Fi performance on a forum because each testing condition is different and there's no baseline to have a common discussion around. To see if there's differences between Prime's a couple of them need to be tested side-by-side at the same time.
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Click to collapse
OK, I understand what you saying
clenz said:
hang in there demadarin - I think Barry is weakening and we will eventually convince him there are potential issues beyond the back plate.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
Check the other thread, I think GPS contacts thread n you will see him cracking under the pressure..lol. he finally said he is starting to agree.
BarryH_GEG said:
I'm like Spock on Star Trek - it's all about logic. It seems more and more people are having their signal change when squeezing above where the antennas are. That certainly points to a common issue. But even the hand-picked Prime Asus sent to Anand to replace his defective sample still peformed poorly against the TF1. So the metal back cover's not an innocent victim (yet).
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EVEN Spock went postal when he realized humans are a complex being n that not all things obvious are always the truth. That some things cant be explained by facts alone. As there could always be contributing factors. Spock was like Data, from the next generation. Even Data was Assimilated..lmfao. my father loved that show.
Off topic..but did you know the guy who played luetenant worf wanted to originally be the Captain? They denied him the part over Picard or whatever his real name was. I still laughed knowing the guy who played Jordi was the guy from reading rainbow.
---------- Post added at 08:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:26 PM ----------
BarryH_GEG said:
I'm like Spock on Star Trek - it's all about logic. It seems more and more people are having their signal change when squeezing above where the antennas are. That certainly points to a common issue. But even the hand-picked Prime Asus sent to Anand to replace his defective sample still peformed poorly against the TF1. So the metal back cover's not an innocent victim (yet).
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Correction needed here. Anandtech last tablet test held prime wifi on par with tf-101. Then he also said range "Might" be an issue. He never said Prime wifi performed badly after his last test.
Nice try trying to sneak that one past me we all guilty of loving to pick n choose info relevant to what we want to prove..lol
I can repeat these results over and over again on my Prime. A good distance from my router (through 2 indoor walls, 1 outside brick wall) I get the top 4 throughputs on Photo 1. I cannot stream video without an awful lot of buffering and everything else is slow. With some testing I found if I put that little piece of foil on the face of the tablet(Photo2) then I get the bottom four throughputs and I can stream video until the cows come home with no buffering. It seems simple and works well on my unit. And again, I can repeat the results. I've been using this for three days now and am really happy with the improvement. I'd be real interested in knowing it this affects anyone else's unit the same way. If it does let everyone know and this may be a quick and easy way to help with your WiFi without having to result in disassembling your Prime or doing an RMA.
I'm planning on painting it black and taping it the the face.
See post 99 for details of my installation.
That is quite impressive. I'm game to give this a try. How far down the back of the Prime does the aluminum foil go?
I remember the little antenna earlier model iPhone users stuck on their phones. Perhaps something like that can simply be stuck on the Prime's glass? But, in your situation, the foil going over the top and down the back may also have an influence. I'm going to see if this improves GPS, too! My wi-fi is decent, but my GPS in non-existent at this point.
Thanks for the post...
PolishPoet said:
I can repeat these results over and over again on my Prime. A good distance from my router (through 2 indoor walls, 1 outside brick wall) I get the top 4 throughputs on Photo 1. I cannot stream video without an awful lot of buffering and everything else is slow. With some testing I found if I put that little piece of foil on the face of the tablet(Photo2) then I get the bottom four throughputs and I can stream video until the cows come home with no buffering. It seems simple and works well on my unit. And again, I can repeat the results. I've been using this for three days now and am really happy with the improvement. I'd be real interested in knowing it this affects anyone else's unit the same way. If it does let everyone know and this may be a quick and easy way to help with your WiFi without having to result in disassembling your Prime or doing an RMA.
I'm planning on painting it black and taping it the the face.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Holy Crap. I'm going to try this when I get home -- I've got a dead spot in my house where my WiFi drops off almost completely. If this works, I'm going to 1) laugh, and 2) think about all the physical damage that some people have done to their Primes in the hardware modding thread, and then 3) be sad for them, and then 4) laugh again, but bitterly.
Keeping the fingers crossed.
Next thing is foil hat!
On a serious note, quite interesting to see results.
Sent throught the wormhole from my CoinInserted Sensation OG.
PolishPoet said:
I can repeat these results over and over again on my Prime. A good distance from my router (through 2 indoor walls, 1 outside brick wall) I get the top 4 throughputs on Photo 1. I cannot stream video without an awful lot of buffering and everything else is slow. With some testing I found if I put that little piece of foil on the face of the tablet(Photo2) then I get the bottom four throughputs and I can stream video until the cows come home with no buffering. It seems simple and works well on my unit. And again, I can repeat the results. I've been using this for three days now and am really happy with the improvement. I'd be real interested in knowing it this affects anyone else's unit the same way. If it does let everyone know and this may be a quick and easy way to help with your WiFi without having to result in disassembling your Prime or doing an RMA.
I'm planning on painting it black and taping it the the face.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also, have you tried putting your prime in a portfolio-type case (like the Minisuit) with the foil on it? If so, does it still work? If so, that would be excellent, because the case would hide the foil.
tinky1 said:
Next thing is foil hat!
On a serious note, quite interesting to see results.
Sent throught the wormhole from my CoinInserted Sensation OG.
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[email protected]#[email protected]$ , I have verified that it works. My dl speed went from 3xxx to over 15000 using speedtest.net app. I will post screen shots......
delete delete
Wow so cool! Even though we shouldn't have to do this lol. Brings me back to the days of my modded wifi dongle with tin foil upgrades to "borrow" my neighbors connection haha.
Damn I'm out of tin foil, I'm gonna run to the store and report back! Even though my new C2 serial get almost identical speeds in my living room in my apartment. Let's see how far I can go!
What about some copper conductive tape? A thin strip of it.
Interesting......simple yet effective, it seems
What happens to your GPS signals if you move the foil over to the left a wee bit (above the GPS antenna)?
I don't have a problem with Wifi, but I certainly do with GPS, so I'd be interested to see.
tinky1 said:
Next thing is foil hat!
On a serious note, quite interesting to see results.
Sent throught the wormhole from my CoinInserted Sensation OG.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
[email protected]#[email protected]$ , I have verified that it works. My dl speed went from 3xxx to over 15000 using speedtest.net app. I will post screen shots......
screen shots taken just now...
lol very cool. Looks like you are reflecting your wireless signal into your primes antenna. Forcing it down the throat so to speak
Cool Parabolic effect. Aluminum foil is great for that.
Even seems to work somewhat with anti-static bags.
WTF!!!
If this is really true then i'm even more glad i returned my unit. So for my 600€ toy to work i gotta get a 1€ foil-roll, ASUS are you kidding me?
tedr108 said:
That is quite impressive. I'm game to give this a try. How far down the back of the Prime does the aluminum foil go?
I remember the little antenna earlier model iPhone users stuck on their phones. Perhaps something like that can simply be stuck on the Prime's glass? But, in your situation, the foil going over the top and down the back may also have an influence. I'm going to see if this improves GPS, too! My wi-fi is decent, but my GPS in non-existent at this point.
Thanks for the post...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It doesn't have to go down the back. I have it taped on now nd it goes from the top edge of the screen down. You have to move it from side to side to get the best signal. Again it does not need to go down the back, but to find the best location I originally had the foil going over the back.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
PolishPoet said:
It doesn't have to go down the back. I have it taped on now nd it goes from the top edge of the screen down. You have to move it from side to side to get the best signal. Again it does not need to go down the back, but to find the best location I originally had the foil going over the back.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
Very cool PolishPoet. Yes I imagine if you had it in some sort of Parabolic shape. You could increase / direct the signal even more.
hahahah i love this.
Make a plastic frame with aluminum in it and you can clip on top of prime. Sell them and you will be rich!
It appears to block/degrade GPS signal. I'm getting 0 now instead of 2-3 by the window with the foil on. But wifi definitely improved.
Works particularly well holding a DVD in place. I guess they are super smooth and reflective so it makes sense.
Mixed result for me. 1.2MB/s with the foil then 5.8MB/s without the foil and then 6.4MB/s with the foil again.
If I use Wifi analyzer as soon as I hold a DVD in place I suddenly see about four other networks that disappear as soon as I take the DVD away. Happens every time without fail. Signal goes from ~70dB to ~55dB
Since it's the aluminum back that's supposedly blocking the signal, one could theoretically cutout or punch some small holes over the wireless device akin to the speaker port. Then since the back is so easily stretchable, get a protective skin and put it over top.
Thoughts?
Erusman removed the back of his Prime and then installed antennae that go through the back in order to improve WiFi and GPS performance. However most people haven't found any value with the idea of cutting up the back of their Prime since there is no guarantee that WiFi will improve by a significant amount, however it is 100% guaranteed that cutting a hole in the back of the Prime will void your warranty.
There are plenty of Prime's out there that have pretty good WiFi performance. My Prime's WiFi is nearly as good as my Windows laptop and more than good enough for everything I would ever need to do on my tablet.
If your WiFi isn't working well enough to meet your needs, return or exchange your Prime for one that is working better.
I've had 2 prime side to side and one gets better speed than the other connected to the same router and test ran separately. So IMO there's either faulty hardware or bad connection. Have you tried getting an exchange?
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
Cutting little holes will not help. A metal mesh or grid reflects radio waves as effectively as solid metal plate - this is even used in some radio telescopes. In order for the radio waves to come through you would have to cut a hole with size comparable to the length of the EM wave. WiFi wavelength is about 12 cm...
At last some real info in a sea of misinformation.
The only thing which will fix this and the gps issue is a good window with a non-conductive cover, or maybe a plug-in or screw-in antenna.
I am sure, though, that some of the preproduction models had some hardware issues relating to antennas, as well as the oft quoted "metal back" issue.
I, too am finding the WiFi performance acceptable, and the sheer flexibility and neatness of the rest of the UK package (tab +dock) has made me a firm fan of the ATP.
Shame about the GPS, though, as there are many google and Android apps which work with phones and GPS which could translate productively to the Prime.
FG (confirmed fan)
Ok thanks for the insight everyone. I now believe my original concept wouldn't work.
I'm curious if there's has been any confirmation of an improved signal by simply removing the back. Someone had said it could be as much a hardware issue as it is the back design.
My wifi is acceptable, it's about the same as it is on my Nexus One which I'd feel bad complaining about. Though it's not as good as my Macbook.
I was just trying to brainstorm some possible solutions. Maybe I'll look into the antennea.
Felisek said:
Cutting little holes will not help. A metal mesh or grid reflects radio waves as effectively as solid metal plate - this is even used in some radio telescopes. In order for the radio waves to come through you would have to cut a hole with size comparable to the length of the EM wave. WiFi wavelength is about 12 cm...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So the plastic apple on the back of the ipad where the wifi is mounted is a gimmick? I find that a little hard to believe.
no, the apple cut out is big enough to let some RF through.
compact antennas and some serious amplification will do the rest. Look at the size of some of the antenna modules in other threads to see how small they are.
In fact look at how small the ipad antenna which is stuck behind the apple logo is.
the poster was right that a few small holes in a grounded plate would not let through enough juice to work.
That would amount to a Farady cage, which is used to screen RF signals, not let them through.
FG
Hi,
this morning someone sent me a link from Tom's Hardware about this tablet. The articles mentions that some people have modded their case to improve GPS signals.
I wonder why Asus don't revise this product to address this issue.
Sent from my HTC Desire using xda premium
You DONT even have to do all that anymore. Asus is offering free GPS dongles to people who purchase a prime. Offer ends in July. Just take a look in my GPS dongle test thread. Then take a look at the link in my signature THST says positive transformer thread.
Prime is a great device. Get one asap
Well first of all, I find it hard to believe that the aluminum case is causing 100% of the problem. Because, if it were then like you said, why not just change the design of the backplate? My guess is that simply adding a plastic strip to the top of the backplate would not improve GPS performance that much. And personally I think the plastic strip look is ugly as hell. What they could have done is kept the all aluminum finish and just relocated the antenna to behind a speaker grill, which is similar to what other devices with metal casings have done. I am sure the GPS still wouldn't be 'professional grade' but it would at least be better than what we currently have.
Either way, the whole GPS problem was something that was obviously not 'caught' until really late in the production process. If it were caught earlier, I am sure something more pro-active would have been done about it. But by the time they found out, they were in too deep to make a hardware change as they were most likely already in mass production. The early regions of where the device was released they had already advertised the thing as having GPS, both on the box and on the official spec sheets. Then when it was released these people found out that GPS was virtually non-functional and ASUS had to quickly back track and pull GPS as a feature from the spec list. My guess is their lawyers told them they need to do something to avoid a class action law suit and any further bad press around this whole situation. So their options were:
1) Recall the device and then modify the hardware in some way to fix the GPS problem (whether that be done via a newly designed back pate or whatever). And then any new ones produced would obviously have this hardware change incorporated as well.
2) Offer a free addon that improves GPS performance.
As we now know, they went with option 2, which I am sure was also the cheaper route. Also, option 1 would imply an admission of guilt in that they messed up. The GPS dongle option allows them to say: "Although the TF201 is not a professional GPS device, as part of our unwavering commitment to our customers we are offering all customers who purchased a TF201 system a free external GPS extension kit, called a dongle, which may help improve signal reception and optimize the user experience".
Honestly I do not care about GPS in a tablet and I will probably only ever use my dongle a select few times in the entire span that I own and use the Prime. I do think it is good that ASUS is doing something about it though. Other companies may very well have just brushed this thing under the rug and moved on with life (which is what I assumed ASUS has been doing until we found out about the GPS dongle).
jordache16 said:
Well first of all, I find it hard to believe that the aluminum case is causing 100% of the problem. Because, if it were then like you said, why not just change the design of the backplate? My guess is that simply adding a plastic strip to the top of the backplate would not improve GPS performance that much. And personally I think the plastic strip look is ugly as hell. What they could have done is kept the all aluminum finish and just relocated the antenna to behind a speaker grill, which is similar to what other devices with metal casings have done. I am sure the GPS still wouldn't be 'professional grade' but it would at least be better than what we currently have.
Either way, the whole GPS problem was something that was obviously not 'caught' until really late in the production process. If it were caught earlier, I am sure something more pro-active would have been done about it. But by the time they found out, they were in too deep to make a hardware change as they were most likely already in mass production. The early regions of where the device was released they had already advertised the thing as having GPS, both on the box and on the official spec sheets. Then when it was released these people found out that GPS was virtually non-functional and ASUS had to quickly back track and pull GPS as a feature from the spec list. My guess is their lawyers told them they need to do something to avoid a class action law suit and any further bad press around this whole situation. So their options were:
1) Recall the device and then modify the hardware in some way to fix the GPS problem (whether that be done via a newly designed back pate or whatever). And then any new ones produced would obviously have this hardware change incorporated as well.
2) Offer a free addon that improves GPS performance.
As we now know, they went with option 2, which I am sure was also the cheaper route. Also, option 1 would imply an admission of guilt in that they messed up. The GPS dongle option allows them to say: "Although the TF201 is not a professional GPS device, as part of our unwavering commitment to our customers we are offering all customers who purchased a TF201 system a free external GPS extension kit, called a dongle, which may help improve signal reception and optimize the user experience".
Honestly I do not care about GPS in a tablet and I will probably only ever use my dongle a select few times in the entire span that I own and use the Prime. I do think it is good that ASUS is doing something about it though. Other companies may very well have just brushed this thing under the rug and moved on with life (which is what I assumed ASUS has been doing until we found out about the GPS dongle).
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Click to collapse
+1...although the solution of a GPS dongle really kills the idea of a TRANSFORMER prime...cant use it with the keyboard dock, and its not as flush and they said it is..you wont be able to use majority of the leather cases and etc when you are using the dongle
I have owned the prime for months. My wifi strength is fine and I dont use GPS enough to justify the problem.
proxus01 said:
I have owned the prime for months. My wifi strength is fine and I dont use GPS enough to justify the problem.
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Click to collapse
Same here.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 2
kwazytazz said:
+1...although the solution of a GPS dongle really kills the idea of a TRANSFORMER prime...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not really - now it can TRANSFORM into a 'professional grade' GPS device! ;-)
Regards,
Dave
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
jordache16 said:
why not just change the design of the backplate?
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Click to collapse
They are, for the 300 and 700 series, back to plastic where the radios are going. iPad tried behind the speaker grille and it still has issues. Its better than nothing but def not perfect.
Yes, the black strip doesnt always look as appealing, however you could cover it with a case or carbon fiber sticker or whatever, i'd much rather go for plastic strip over no radio reception.
And also yes, the interference can definately be 10000% caused by the metalic back plate. Both by blocking the signal and RF noise. Everything pretty much is grounded to the metal back and it, in turn, has a lot of RF noise associated with it. If i attach a lead to the gps or wifi contact inside the tablet and have the wire run outside the tab i get excellent reception. Once that wire goes within about an inch of the tablet the signal drops dramatically. Even if the access point is on the proper side of the tablet so its not blocking the signal.
Asus knows how to make killer electronics. they did an amazing job on the prime, however the demand caught them off guard. They tried to do something different with the metalic design and got caught with their pants down. They will get it right eventually and in the mean time we are at least getting SOMETHING (free dongle for gps, why not?)
The prime is a great tablet, awesome for watching movies, playing games, browsing the internet. ya, the wifi is not that great, i look forward to mods for using the dongle for wifi instead of GPS, but in the mean time this is the best we got, and its good enough. When the 700 comes out i may sell my prime for that but i got money in my pocket. if your on a budget, buy the TF101, its still better than any other tablet (aside from the 201 IMO), or wait for the 300 series which will still be a cost efficent tablet.
Asus is doing their best to remedy this situation. They are a big company and big machines move slow. Considering their track record i will still continue buying their products. I have been impressed overall by the prime, and the 101 before it, and look forward to the 700 when it comes out. Continue doing your research and determine what is going to be important for you (and if you do go Prime make damn sure to test it every way you can before accepting it).
proxus01 said:
I have owned the prime for months. My wifi strength is fine and I dont use GPS enough to justify the problem.
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Click to collapse
Same for me.
proxus01 said:
I have owned the prime for months. My wifi strength is fine and I dont use GPS enough to justify the problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
SoTacMatt said:
Same here.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 2
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texstar said:
Same for me.
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same here..lmao
my wifi been been performing great where ever i go. whether at home, traveling and tethering, or some where else and hooking up to another public or private network.
The worst problem with the prime is the constant freezes it has...
It`s frustrating.
Tried all the browsers people recommend and the problem persists.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA