Related
I've got thick skin so feel free to throw things.
Watching the forum over the last month I've seen a proliferation of ROMs to the point that I've stopped updating - also partly because my favorite and second favorite teams have stopped putting out new versions. I finally succumbed to the burning urge to try another ROM last night but ended up with buyers "meh."
The ROM environment has become so fragmented that it's hard to know what the advantage of ROM a is over ROM b other than appearance.
A comment from one of the ROM makers brought the problem into sharp focus. "I've renamed my ROM because I didn't know one of my team members already had a ROM named X."
How can you be part of a "team" and not know what's being produced by that team?
It seems like we've got more themers producing work in the form of full ROMs rather than themes. I've got nothing against themers, I love packages that can completely change the look of my device and I'm always on the lookout for cool new themes.
I'd rather see ROM maintainers and themers working together where the former group produces faster and more reliable ROMs while the latter group produces mods for those ROMs.
Do the two groups just not want to work closely together or are there predominantly just mostly lone wolves working at the ROM/theme level in Android?
Wrong section. Suppose to go in q&a (QUESTIONS and answers)
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA Premium App
I disagree because it's directly applicable to development and is aimed at the developers. It's not a general q/a question
I agree with this. There's no need to make a "rom" if you just change the theme. Just make a theme and zip it up then post it in the themes section. And oh yea I believe people refer to these people as "winzippers".
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
OP has a great point about our forum here. Ive really stopped doing anything but for my own use, and with the exception of a few real roms put here, I've watched our Vibrant area here turn into a rom porting paradise, without a lot of original work done by people calling themselves devs. Several of these self proclaimed devs have asked me for help with recent projects, and have then been unable to provide even a simple logcat for diagnosis. If someone cant pull a logcat or understand how to do other basics, you really need to take your time and learn.
It is okay to theme and do little things while you learn, and take the time to put out a quality product, instead of a hurried build thats half broken. We have a slight handful of true devs out here, and a whole bunch of people who want to learn, but seem to be in too much of a hurry to kang others work and not really learn how to build a rom from the ground up. Its a damn shame.
Ginger Clones of the World Unite!!! via the XDA App
I agree with Br1cK'd. There are a lot of "devs" lately that seem to be kanging together half broken ROM's. I can't tell you how often lately I've flashed something only to find major bugs, when the OP claims that the ROM is 100 percent working and bug free. It seems that most of the more skilled developers have moved on to newer devices. I'm all for people learning but they need to do a lot of quality control before they post their work on XDA.
are you tryna say my team member ferhanmm that did an error ? whats up with you son?>
But then... what actually constitutes a "Rom".
For as far as I know, according to CM6/7/Miui people, only theirs are truly "Roms", as they are built from ground up.
Everything else is just a themed stock Rom, or improvements to existing Sammy framework. (Which I still love btw)
If there were malicious Roms that are purposely bricking systems, then I would argue for stricter requirements for releases. But as it stands, I think the openness of this forum allows users and developers alike to find what makes them happy.
I just think in general, Rom devs/maintainers get more credit (Thanks button hits?) than purely themers. As there is a feeling that themers kind of "work for" Rom Devs... Which is why people tend to package their work as Roms instead of themes (So their work seems less derivative or what not)
Wrong section, but I agree.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA Premium App
Br1cK'd said:
OP has a great point about our forum here. Ive really stopped doing anything but for my own use, and with the exception of a few real roms put here, I've watched our Vibrant area here turn into a rom porting paradise, without a lot of original work done by people calling themselves devs. Several of these self proclaimed devs have asked me for help with recent projects, and have then been unable to provide even a simple logcat for diagnosis. If someone cant pull a logcat or understand how to do other basics, you really need to take your time and learn.
It is okay to theme and do little things while you learn, and take the time to put out a quality product, instead of a hurried build thats half broken. We have a slight handful of true devs out here, and a whole bunch of people who want to learn, but seem to be in too much of a hurry to kang others work and not really learn how to build a rom from the ground up. Its a damn shame.
Ginger Clones of the World Unite!!! via the XDA App
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Click to collapse
first of all about the logcat ? did you learn alone ? i guess that if someone ask you, its nno bad to help is it ? because i bet some one showed you...now about the kang, so almost every rom here is a kang right ? almost all roms based on stocks from i9000s and stocks kb1`s isnt it ?... i guess this people have the right to learn, but seems you guys that already know a little dont like to help huh?
I have more than enough mods on my rom to constitute it not being a theme, and I don't know about you but I don't memorize every rom name out there. It sounded similar so I changed it, what's wrong with that? Since 2.2 has already been tweaked to the max I was able to put out a pretty stable version in the first post. Only things I can really do from here are make it more efficient and finish the theme which I plan to do but I just posted it. And it's my first rom so thanks for the encouragement.
I agree, the forum is filling up with "roms" that are just the same rom rethemed over and over and over again. What annoys me most are these self-proclaimed "devs" who take bits and pieces of other people's work and put them together for their own "rom" when they didn't really write any of it. Just take a look at their credits lol... It's a crazy long list.
I don't think there's anything wrong with having multiple ROMs. After all, everyone will like something different.
I think what the OP is saying though is that there are ROMs out there are essentially the same pieces with different theme, or maybe a new lock screen, and whatnot. I think the OP means little additions like that can be part of a theme or the theme & apps forum and could be added to any ROM and doesn't warrant releasing a new ROM under a new name and new dev.
jimmynguyen91 said:
I agree, the forum is filling up with "roms" that are just the same rom rethemed over and over and over again. What annoys me most are these self-proclaimed "devs" who take bits and pieces of other people's work and put them together for their own "rom" when they didn't really write any of it. Just take a look at their credits lol... It's a crazy long list.
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as my partner said above, hell son you dont undestand, everybody uses tweaks that are made because there is no need to redo it...name me any rom you have created ? do you know about roms? dont be stupid
ColorNapkin said:
I don't think there's anything wrong with having multiple ROMs. After all, everyone will like something different.
I think what the OP is saying though is that there are ROMs out there are essentially the same pieces with different theme, or maybe a new lock screen, and whatnot. I think the OP means little additions like that can be part of a theme or the theme & apps forum and could be added to any ROM and doesn't warrant releasing a new ROM under a new name and new dev.
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Click to collapse
+1
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA Premium App
I did my first root about two month ago. Since then I have tried about 20 various roms or updates to them. I tried one last week that seemed to be a copy from an established developer. The other team got really pissy and used alot of immature slang when confronted. I will no longer use any roms from them. I agree that people should learn from the ground up before posting roms and stop the plagiarism.
I appreciate the hard work of the legitimate developers on this site.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
ferhanmm said:
I have more than enough mods on my rom to constitute it not being a theme, and I don't know about you but I don't memorize every rom name out there. It sounded similar so I changed it, what's wrong with that? Since 2.2 has already been tweaked to the max I was able to put out a pretty stable version in the first post. Only things I can really do from here are make it more efficient and finish the theme which I plan to do but I just posted it. And it's my first rom so thanks for the encouragement.
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dont pay attentionn to this ppl fer.. day just stupids ... look at thhe quote i made above.. its just stupid, they want us to redo the same **** that is already made... for example.. whats the need to do a gps fix when jellette made one already ? its just stupid
them may be half a$$ed devs but them gotta have donate button
Bosina & Br1cK'd, first, thanks for your input and participation but this thread isn't about helping or not. It's about packing up thematic changes and publishing them as a ROM rather than a theme bundle.
If a group of members wants to debate about newbies not giving as much as they get, please start a new thread.
bosina said:
as my partner said above, hell son you dont undestand, everybody uses tweaks that are made because there is no need to redo it...name me any rom you have created ? do you know about roms? dont be stupid
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Click to collapse
this dude ha ha shut up im trying to read and your comments are unnecessary and full of hate and You act like You are a Big Time developer who dont take s**t from anyone , go smoke something and relax , i dont see Team Whisky complain or Eugene, just You big time savior .
But if the teams join there will be more people to split the donation money between so maybe thats why people stay separate ?
or does anyone else feel like we dont have enough aosp love? I mean we have miui, cm7, had decks(went ghostbusters on us) and empiire(heard he got grounded for molesting his hard drive.) I understand theirs still kinks to be worked out but everything is Sense. Just wanted to see who else felt this way. PLEASE DONT COME IN AND START A PARAGRAPH WAR, I read enough in high school.
Temari x Shikamaru
Evervolv exists.
il Duce said:
Evervolv exists.
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Link please. Ive been hunting it.
Temari x Shikamaru
Talked to shift on twitter yesterday, he said CM7 is being worked on. I honestly think what it is that people are happy with their phones just the way they are, so it brings less crowd. While it is smaller than the original Evo, there is still a pretty big following. Plus, this is just a US phone, so when comparing the Sensation with us is like apple and oranges. We just got mike and androidrevolution! Which is great.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
PatrickHuey said:
Talked to shift on twitter yesterday, he said CM7 is being worked on. I honestly think what it is that people are happy with their phones just the way they are, so it brings less crowd. While it is smaller than the original Evo, there is still a pretty big following. Plus, this is just a US phone, so when comparing the Sensation with us is like apple and oranges. We just got mike and androidrevolution! Which is great.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
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Click to collapse
Its not just US. Theres gsm models for overseas.
Temari x Shikamaru
The problem is, most AOSP ROM's(99.99%) are based off CM kernel source, so with no update to CM, there's no update to other AOSP ROM's. Many devs might want to wait until a few more bugs are worked out of CM before they start kanging. Once we get an RC1 or a stable CM release, you may see more AOSP love.
Can the gsm users get some aosp love? Any roms?
Sent from my Evo 3D GSM...bring on the AOSP!!!
housry23 said:
The problem is, most AOSP ROM's(99.99%) are based off CM kernel source, so with no update to CM, there's no update to other AOSP ROM's. Many devs might want to wait until a few more bugs are worked out of CM before they start kanging. Once we get an RC1 or a stable CM release, you may see more AOSP love.
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Click to collapse
This man is right. Most AOSP is done by Cyanogenmod devs and kanged from there. I can guarantee you when they come out with a CM7 RC, there will magically be other AOSP roms.
housry23 said:
The problem is, most AOSP ROM's(99.99%) are based off CM kernel source, so with no update to CM, there's no update to other AOSP ROM's. Many devs might want to wait until a few more bugs are worked out of CM before they start kanging. Once we get an RC1 or a stable CM release, you may see more AOSP love.
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Click to collapse
Your right. I forgot about that.
Temari x Shikamaru
housry23 said:
The problem is, most AOSP ROM's(99.99%) are based off CM kernel source, so with no update to CM, there's no update to other AOSP ROM's. Many devs might want to wait until a few more bugs are worked out of CM before they start kanging. Once we get an RC1 or a stable CM release, you may see more AOSP love.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have complained about this over and over, and will continue to complain in multiple threads until more people see the point I make and support that. Using someone else's kernel and/or ROM as a base for their "new" ROM isn't all bad all the time. It is analogous to game development on a PC using another developer's graphics/game engine (only with permission and proper credit of course!!). It saves time, and in some cases help that particular engine to advance, but it slows down new technological advancement in the industry as a whole.
Developers need to start honing their skills, start attempting to bring a ROM to the public that they built from the ground up, that includes a kernel build from the ground up too. Doing this eliminates such a large collection of ROMs that are all essentially the same, and because of the open source nature of Android it brings new technological advances to the public faster. It also raises the bar, the standard. The public will begin to expect more out of Android, and this in turn creates more motivation for a newer, better Android.
I think some developers have lost sight of the purpose and nature of open source information and products. Instead of hijacking someone's source code, and using it as a base for a new ROM with a new name, and small amount of new features, development should be done that conforms to the original intent and purpose of open source. Work together with a developer that has created a ROM [from the ground up] that is most similar to the product you want to create. Improve the ROM as a team, make bug fixes and enhancement to the existing ROM. That is what open source was meant to do. This will prevent a forum list of 32 half assed roms, and replace it with 10 really good yet unique roms.
If you can't find an existing ROM, a Dev team that has different ideas of what make a ROM good, or there is no ROM that exists that is similar enough to your vision of the product then, and only then should you develop something new.
I realize my views aren't going to match up with everyone else, but I am sure a happy medium could be found that produces a situation better than what we have now. Thanks for letting me rant, and for reading my thoughts!
Sad Panda said:
I have complained about this over and over, and will continue to complain in multiple threads until more people see the point I make and support that. Using someone else's kernel and/or ROM as a base for their "new" ROM isn't all bad all the time. It is analogous to game development on a PC using another developer's graphics/game engine (only with permission and proper credit of course!!). It saves time, and in some cases help that particular engine to advance, but it slows down new technological advancement in the industry as a whole.
Developers need to start honing their skills, start attempting to bring a ROM to the public that they built from the ground up, that includes a kernel build from the ground up too. Doing this eliminates such a large collection of ROMs that are all essentially the same, and because of the open source nature of Android it brings new technological advances to the public faster. It also raises the bar, the standard. The public will begin to expect more out of Android, and this in turn creates more motivation for a newer, better Android.
I think some developers have lost sight of the purpose and nature of open source information and products. Instead of hijacking someone's source code, and using it as a base for a new ROM with a new name, and small amount of new features, development should be done that conforms to the original intent and purpose of open source. Work together with a developer that has created a ROM [from the ground up] that is most similar to the product you want to create. Improve the ROM as a team, make bug fixes and enhancement to the existing ROM. That is what open source was meant to do. This will prevent a forum list of 32 half assed roms, and replace it with 10 really good yet unique roms.
If you can't find an existing ROM, a Dev team that has different ideas of what make a ROM good, or there is no ROM that exists that is similar enough to your vision of the product then, and only then should you develop something new.
I realize my views aren't going to match up with everyone else, but I am sure a happy medium could be found that produces a situation better than what we have now. Thanks for letting me rant, and for reading my thoughts!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Damn. Such a long read. It was good though.
Temari x Shikamaru
knowledge561 said:
Damn. Such a long read. It was good though.
Temari x Shikamaru
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Click to collapse
I'm sorry, I originally had hoped for a much shorter post. I always try to get the thoughts in my head out "on paper" in the shortest, most efficient and least complex manner. This is my vision of a more free, "open source" world though. I think the freedom of information could be applied to many facets of society that would create a better future for all of us, and still preserve the competition that drives a more peaceful, better, cheaper, faster world. Sorry again!
Sad Panda said:
I have complained about this over and over, and will continue to complain in multiple threads until more people see the point I make and support that. Using someone else's kernel and/or ROM as a base for their "new" ROM isn't all bad all the time. It is analogous to game development on a PC using another developer's graphics/game engine (only with permission and proper credit of course!!). It saves time, and in some cases help that particular engine to advance, but it slows down new technological advancement in the industry as a whole.
Developers need to start honing their skills, start attempting to bring a ROM to the public that they built from the ground up, that includes a kernel build from the ground up too. Doing this eliminates such a large collection of ROMs that are all essentially the same, and because of the open source nature of Android it brings new technological advances to the public faster. It also raises the bar, the standard. The public will begin to expect more out of Android, and this in turn creates more motivation for a newer, better Android.
I think some developers have lost sight of the purpose and nature of open source information and products. Instead of hijacking someone's source code, and using it as a base for a new ROM with a new name, and small amount of new features, development should be done that conforms to the original intent and purpose of open source. Work together with a developer that has created a ROM [from the ground up] that is most similar to the product you want to create. Improve the ROM as a team, make bug fixes and enhancement to the existing ROM. That is what open source was meant to do. This will prevent a forum list of 32 half assed roms, and replace it with 10 really good yet unique roms.
If you can't find an existing ROM, a Dev team that has different ideas of what make a ROM good, or there is no ROM that exists that is similar enough to your vision of the product then, and only then should you develop something new.
I realize my views aren't going to match up with everyone else, but I am sure a happy medium could be found that produces a situation better than what we have now. Thanks for letting me rant, and for reading my thoughts!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem is that people don't always give credit where credit is due, which is one of the reasons some people don't like sharing stuff. I mean, let's say I made this awesome mod and let everybody use it. Then some kitchen dev comes along, kangs the **** out of it, doesn't mention me in his rom, and slaps a gigantic DONATE button at the bottom of his signature. It's frustrating.
Now I'm all about open source. I won't use a rom that doesn't post the source. That's the exact reason I won't use MIUI.
SolsticeZero said:
The problem is that people don't always give credit where credit is due, which is one of the reasons some people don't like sharing stuff. I mean, let's say I made this awesome mod and let everybody use it. Then some kitchen dev comes along, kangs the **** out of it, doesn't mention me in his rom, and slaps a gigantic DONATE button at the bottom of his signature. It's frustrating.
Now I'm all about open source. I won't use a rom that doesn't post the source. That's the exact reason I won't use MIUI.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I fully understand your frustration. I am a software engineer too so I know what you are going through. I have not yet begun developing for Android, but will. There is a little bit of a problem here that could easily be solved, and the community has a responsibility to protect the intellectual property rights that you and every other developer like you is entitled to. In fact it is a right that is protected by the integrity of the constitution of the united states, and many other countries and law enforcement around the world. This is a failure that not just developers, mods, and admins have, but a responsibility and failure that every user at xda shares no matter who they are.
First off; not to offend any MIUI developers that may be watching, but if you are developing for Android you need to be using a license that is open, and your source needs to be open too. This is especially true if you are using xda as a distribution medium, but sadly while xda has said they encourage, and want every development to be open source they are not forcing the matter. This is a failure I think. It also makes MIUI look suspicious too, as there isn't a way to verify if their source is uniquely theirs'. I personally believe xda should not allow software that is not open source to be distributed. If google didn't keep the open source principle when they acquired Android roms like MIUI would NOT exist! It is highly unethical to take the base ROM from google because it is open source, and then close the source. That is wrong wrong wrong! It is also illegal! You can not redistribute the Android OS even if you have made changes and then close the source and not maintain the software license google has on place.
Second; I believe as a user of xda it is your duty to maintain the integrity of the principles of xda, and Android. Don't support closed source works, voice your disgust so that xda sees the will of its users, that the over whelming majority wants things to remain open source. Tattle your ass off if someone has broke the copyright law and used someone's work without permission and credit.
It is important to keep both xda and Android running on the same principles it started with. Don't let this keep happening guys! This is very serious, a lot of developers are breaking the law doing what they are doing!
Sad Panda said:
I have complained about this over and over, and will continue to complain in multiple threads until more people see the point I make and support that. Using someone else's kernel and/or ROM as a base for their "new" ROM isn't all bad all the time. It is analogous to game development on a PC using another developer's graphics/game engine (only with permission and proper credit of course!!). It saves time, and in some cases help that particular engine to advance, but it slows down new technological advancement in the industry as a whole.
Developers need to start honing their skills, start attempting to bring a ROM to the public that they built from the ground up, that includes a kernel build from the ground up too. Doing this eliminates such a large collection of ROMs that are all essentially the same, and because of the open source nature of Android it brings new technological advances to the public faster. It also raises the bar, the standard. The public will begin to expect more out of Android, and this in turn creates more motivation for a newer, better Android.
I think some developers have lost sight of the purpose and nature of open source information and products. Instead of hijacking someone's source code, and using it as a base for a new ROM with a new name, and small amount of new features, development should be done that conforms to the original intent and purpose of open source. Work together with a developer that has created a ROM [from the ground up] that is most similar to the product you want to create. Improve the ROM as a team, make bug fixes and enhancement to the existing ROM. That is what open source was meant to do. This will prevent a forum list of 32 half assed roms, and replace it with 10 really good yet unique roms.
If you can't find an existing ROM, a Dev team that has different ideas of what make a ROM good, or there is no ROM that exists that is similar enough to your vision of the product then, and only then should you develop something new.
I realize my views aren't going to match up with everyone else, but I am sure a happy medium could be found that produces a situation better than what we have now. Thanks for letting me rant, and for reading my thoughts!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or learn to code yourself and create roms from the ground up. Most devs do what they do for themselves first, and allow us to ride on their coattails. Not a bad ride if your like me and have no coding skills. Otherwise, I doubt your plea is going to convince a dev to do anything more or less then they do now, unless it interest them personally.
I do agree with you though. I'm coming from Android on the Touch Pro 2 where a small group of devs are building EVERYTHING from scratch. From the modems to the light sensor. It's a huge job done out of love for the hardware, for fun, and a passion for coding.
knowledge561 said:
Link please. Ive been hunting it.
Temari x Shikamaru
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Click to collapse
he links only via twitter posts and in his IRC, send him a tweet. iirc still in beta, but he does some nice ROMs
Serren said:
Or learn to code yourself and create roms from the ground up. Most devs do what they do for themselves first, and allow us to ride on their coattails. Not a bad ride if your like me and have no coding skills. Otherwise, I doubt your plea is going to convince a dev to do anything more or less then they do now, unless it interest them personally.
I do agree with you though. I'm coming from Android on the Touch Pro 2 where a small group of devs are building EVERYTHING from scratch. From the modems to the light sensor. It's a huge job done out of love for the hardware, for fun, and a passion for coding.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your comment and support. I don't disagree with you. If you steal a loaf of bread to feed yourself, is it any less of a crime than to steal a loaf of bread to feed you and your family and friends? Or is it the same or worse?
I think either way it isn't ethical. People need to think less about themselves I think. I must reiterate and clarify so I am not misunderstood. I don't think it is inherently bad to be using a ROM as your base, but it is wrong to then close the source of a previously open piece of work and/or not maintain the original license, and give credit in every spot it should be given in. That would include its distribution, the license, the source code itself, and any where else that you put your own version, app info, and copyright notice. Am I wrong?
Sad Panda said:
I fully understand your frustration. I am a software engineer too so I know what you are going through. I have not yet begun developing for Android, but will. There is a little bit of a problem here that could easily be solved, and the community has a responsibility to protect the intellectual property rights that you and every other developer like you is entitled to. In fact it is a right that is protected by the integrity of the constitution of the united states, and many other countries and law enforcement around the world. This is a failure that not just developers, mods, and admins have, but a responsibility and failure that every user at xda shares no matter who they are.
First off; not to offend any MIUI developers that may be watching, but if you are developing for Android you need to be using a license that is open, and your source needs to be open too. This is especially true if you are using xda as a distribution medium, but sadly while xda has said they encourage, and want every development to be open source they are not forcing the matter. This is a failure I think. It also makes MIUI look suspicious too, as there isn't a way to verify if their source is uniquely theirs'. I personally believe xda should not allow software that is not open source to be distributed. If google didn't keep the open source principle when they acquired Android roms like MIUI would NOT exist! It is highly unethical to take the base ROM from google because it is open source, and then close the source. That is wrong wrong wrong! It is also illegal! You can not redistribute the Android OS even if you have made changes and then close the source and not maintain the software license google has on place.
Second; I believe as a user of xda it is your duty to maintain the integrity of the principles of xda, and Android. Don't support closed source works, voice your disgust so that xda sees the will of its users, that the over whelming majority wants things to remain open source. Tattle your ass off if someone has broke the copyright law and used someone's work without permission and credit.
It is important to keep both xda and Android running on the same principles it started with. Don't let this keep happening guys! This is very serious, a lot of developers are breaking the law doing what they are doing!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let me preface this by saying that I agree with you..
However android is meant to be open source, the license that they use (Apache) does not require it.. The reason they chose the Apache license was to give people the freedom to choose (their words). So technically people like miui don't have to post source for anything other than kernel (which is GPL).
This link has some good info on it.
http://source.android.com/source/licenses.html
But even CM doesn't have to provide source, which in recent history they haven't while starting builds.. We can't demand source, when the licensing doesn't demand, but that doesn't mean we still can't prove direct kang. The reason I have android over anything else is the freedom it gives and the open nature of it.
Edit: and you should always credit someone if you are using their work, and also have their permission. I was referring to general source from android itself, not from each other.
_______________________
No d3rp left behind - ranger61878
The problem is, nobody wants to start a ROM from the ground up, and the people that do are already involved into team projects (CM/MIUI). It takes a long time to create a ROM from the ground up that utilizes all of a phone's hardware properly. Look how long it took CM to get 4G onto the EVO 4G, and that was a team of highly skilled individuals practically reverse engineering code to do it.
Now imagine all of the copy and paste kitchen users here trying to accomplish that. It just won't happen lol.
That's why we have pretty much the same thing in different colors. It kind of sucks, but hey, HTC did the majority of the work, and if something already works good enough, the average person will be fine with and use that.
Yeah, it does slow down the evolution and innovation of Android as a whole, but you have to put some of the blame on OEMs for pushing out 45 different phones a year. Nobody is going to be encouraged to create something from the ground up for a phone that will be replaced and obsolete by the time they're finished.
The G1 is the prime example of a great phone that got tons of developer support, tons of new things, and tons of unique ROMs. But that was the beginning, and I doubt that's ever going to happen again.
HTC all but pushed this EVO 3D out, and forgot about it. They've released a good 19 phones since then at the rate they're going, most of us will have moved on to the next one in a few months. Sad but true.
That is why I have stuck with and will probably continue to use a Stock ROM, modified to my liking and stripped. There isn't much else you can hope for. 3D has failed to really take off like HTC and the rest of us wanted. There is no motivation for any of the teams out there to focus on reverse engineering their ROMs to use 3D. MIUI to this day hasn't bothered with WiMAX and with good reason. Sprint all about blatantly announced its slow death in favor of LTE. It would have been a waste of time for the MIUI team to implement it. Kudos to Team Win and CM for gracing us with it on the EVO 4G. But, hindsight has probably made people mad that all of their time and energy went into something that's getting canned.
Alot of good points freeza. These are paragraphs I like to read.
Temari x Shikamaru
I recently bought the Note. I was an ios user and perfer it over android. I love the hardware of the Note but not the software. So I would like to know if there is a way to run iOS on the Note and when I say run I mean like if it was an iPhone 4s. Is there any one who can help me anything is much appreciated,
Thanks.
Really.......
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
Buy an ipad
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk
RiiGGS said:
I recently bought the Note. I was an ios user and perfer it over android. I love the hardware of the Note but not the software. So I would like to know if there is a way to run iOS on the Note and when I say run I mean like if it was an iPhone 4s. Is there any one who can help me anything is much appreciated,
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thanked your post, not because it was in any way useful but absolutely hilarious!
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but that will most likely never happen. I'll trade my wife's iPhone 4 for your Note though, I'll even throw in a dead iPad!
Well, truth be told, there is not a solution yet.
BUT, if you wait a bit, a rom called MIUI will likely be developed.
Let me explain...
Cyanogen is a team that develops 'clean' Android roms for many devices. This means, no bloat and has ALL of the features that Android has to offer, enabled (with exception to features that would not be applicable because the phone simply does not have the hardware - for example, if your phone does not have NFC, Cyanogen wont support it for your device and they simply remove all of the code related to this). The result is, the most feature rich version of Android (and most up to date as they do keep up with Google's releases) with the least amount of crap. This keeps the phone lean and clean.
Now, since Cyanogen is open source, they make the source code available for other rom developers to modify what they have done to create different experiences. This allows developers to start with a feature rich rom and develop on top of that to add their own 'flavor' to their work.
One such 'flavor' is MIUI which strives to make your Android device as Iphone like as possible. While it isnt perfectly matched to the Iphone, its moderately close.
Dont get me wrong, I for the life of me am baffled as to why someone would want their Android phone to look like an Iphone but that is what MIUI is there for.
(BTW, if I am wrong about MIUI, feel free to mention it, based on everything I have read about it however, the impression I got was to theme an Android OS to look like IOS).
However, we have a long way before this happens. Rom developers have barely figured out how to do anything with this phone.
To my knowledge, there is only 1 custom rom (Saurom) and it isnt really all that custom from what I can see. All it seems to have is enhancements from the stock rom (overclocking, cwm, att bloat removed?) but in essence is just a more efficient streamlined stock rom.
There is also only one custom kernel that I can see that again, is the same as the stock kernel but allows for overclocking (and I think I read that the davlik cache size was increased).
Once Samsung releases the source code for the Note, we will start seeing alot more rom development, at which time Cyanogen will jump on board and start making roms (using the source that Samsung releases for things like drivers) and once Cyanogen has a relatively stable rom, MIUI will likely take the Cyanogen source and tweak it.
Very convoluted I know but probably wont be seeing anything earth shattering until the source code is released from Samsung.
littlewierdo said:
Well, truth be told, there is not a solution yet.
BUT, if you wait a bit, a rom called MIUI will likely be developed.
Let me explain...
Cyanogen is a team that develops 'clean' Android roms for many devices. This means, no bloat and has ALL of the features that Android has to offer, enabled (with exception to features that would not be applicable because the phone simply does not have the hardware - for example, if your phone does not have NFC, Cyanogen wont support it for your device and they simply remove all of the code related to this). The result is, the most feature rich version of Android (and most up to date as they do keep up with Google's releases) with the least amount of crap. This keeps the phone lean and clean.
Now, since Cyanogen is open source, they make the source code available for other rom developers to modify what they have done to create different experiences. This allows developers to start with a feature rich rom and develop on top of that to add their own 'flavor' to their work.
One such 'flavor' is MIUI which strives to make your Android device as Iphone like as possible. While it isnt perfectly matched to the Iphone, its moderately close.
Dont get me wrong, I for the life of me am baffled as to why someone would want their Android phone to look like an Iphone but that is what MIUI is there for.
(BTW, if I am wrong about MIUI, feel free to mention it, based on everything I have read about it however, the impression I got was to theme an Android OS to look like IOS).
However, we have a long way before this happens. Rom developers have barely figured out how to do anything with this phone.
To my knowledge, there is only 1 custom rom (Saurom) and it isnt really all that custom from what I can see. All it seems to have is enhancements from the stock rom (overclocking, cwm, att bloat removed?) but in essence is just a more efficient streamlined stock rom.
There is also only one custom kernel that I can see that again, is the same as the stock kernel but allows for overclocking (and I think I read that the davlik cache size was increased).
Once Samsung releases the source code for the Note, we will start seeing alot more rom development, at which time Cyanogen will jump on board and start making roms (using the source that Samsung releases for things like drivers) and once Cyanogen has a relatively stable rom, MIUI will likely take the Cyanogen source and tweak it.
Very convoluted I know but probably wont be seeing anything earth shattering until the source code is released from Samsung.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Off topic but, didn't samsung already already release the source code right before the release of the phone itself?
bonefan03 said:
Off topic but, didn't samsung already already release the source code right before the release of the phone itself?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Afaik they released the kernel source but that's it. I could be mistaken
Sent from A VAN DOWN BY THE RIVER! In my beloved velvet leisure suit...
Really you come on an android forum and talk about how you like apple better?
What did you think would happen?
If you want a fruitphone go get in your VW Jetta and get one. Don't ruin a real phone by putting ios on it.
Sent from the only smartphone designed by Chuck Norris
iOS On Note
What I was really hoping for was to be able to keep my Notes Hardware while having full iOS software so I could Facetime or use itunes,appstore,gamecenter,and so forth.
RiiGGS said:
What I was really hoping for was to be able to keep my Notes Hardware while having full iOS software so I could Facetime or use itunes,appstore,gamecenter,and so forth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
https://opensource.samsung.com/reception/receptionSub.do?method=search&searchValue=SGH-I717
Is this the sources you were speaking of. If so i am still trying to figure out if this is the full source or just kernel
RiiGGS said:
I recently bought the Note. I was an ios user and perfer it over android. I love the hardware of the Note but not the software. So I would like to know if there is a way to run iOS on the Note and when I say run I mean like if it was an iPhone 4s. Is there any one who can help me anything is much appreciated,
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Excuse me....I just threw up in my throat a little bit.
And for the love of god. Let the flaming begin, i think this is by far my favorite thread in all of xda. Im completly amused by this and will read the complete flaming of vast stupidity for days to come.
lol well on the bright side, at least his question was posted in the correct forum section.
themisfit said:
https://opensource.samsung.com/reception/receptionSub.do?method=search&searchValue=SGH-I717
Is this the sources you were speaking of. If so i am still trying to figure out if this is the full source or just kernel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Those are kernel sources only not full OS source.
themisfit said:
And for the love of god. Let the flaming begin, i think this is by far my favorite thread in all of xda. Im completly amused by this and will read the complete flaming of vast stupidity for days to come.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No need to flame really. We were all new here at some point. A simple no it won't happen will suffice
Sent from A VAN DOWN BY THE RIVER! In my beloved velvet leisure suit...
themisfit said:
And for the love of god. Let the flaming begin, i think this is by far my favorite thread in all of xda. Im completly amused by this and will read the complete flaming of vast stupidity for days to come.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, the flaming won't begin, the thread will end. Here.
I'm curious about something. Are there any roms for the photon that's built from the ground up by the dev and not based on anyone else's work? I've noticed that most of the roms for the photon are in some way based off another devs work on another phone just with minor tweaks here and there. Joker seems to be the only dev I've noticed that has done most of his own work.
Sent from my MB855 using XDA
Looks like you missed the point
This all here is the Android community and everyone uses others work, when making roms.
Even Joker uses others work. ;-)
Do not say anything about something,if you know nothing. ;-)
Except for pure AOSP builds, ALL ROM's are based off of either CM or stock (ports fall under one of these two groups as well). Pure AOSP builds are very rare as the dev has to write a lot of the drivers, framework and such from scratch. This applies to all android devices.
Pure AOSP builds on devices without full sourcecode from the component manufacturers are considered so time consuming that most devs never even both. A perfect example is the Tegra2 development board. Even those that have purchased the dev board do not have access to all the sourcecode as there's a lot of proprietary code that does not fall under opensource. Short of somebody risking some serious legal issues by releasing proprietary code the code is never released. At last check, nobody has all the source code for the Tegra platform.
Another example is during a conversation with agraben at the android bbq the subject of sourcecode came up. Both he and I were a little pissed the handset manufacturers are using wrappers (closed source) to get things like cameras and the like to work. In some cases the released drivers (open source) are pretty much useless as most of the functions are handled by the wrapper. Think of it as soft-drivers (proprietary) vs hard-drivers (opensource).
There is also a lot that goes on behind the scenes. It's not uncommon for devs to share fixes and such with each other. Lets say I find a way to make the mopho print money (I wish this was true). Unless I'm a complete d*ck, I'd send other devs a PM/email and give the code to any devs that want it. The most I may ask for is a mention in the credits.
Lokifish Marz said:
Except for pure AOSP builds, ALL ROM's are based off of either CM or stock (ports fall under one of these two groups as well). Pure AOSP builds are very rare as the dev has to write a lot of the drivers, framework and such from scratch. This applies to all android devices.
Pure AOSP builds on devices without full sourcecode from the component manufacturers are considered so time consuming that most devs never even both. A perfect example is the Tegra2 development board. Even those that have purchased the dev board do not have access to all the sourcecode as there's a lot of proprietary code that does not fall under opensource. Short of somebody risking some serious legal issues by releasing proprietary code the code is never released. At last check, nobody has all the source code for the Tegra platform.
Another example is during a conversation with agraben at the android bbq the subject of sourcecode came up. Both he and I were a little pissed the handset manufacturers are using wrappers (closed source) to get things like cameras and the like to work. In some cases the released drivers (open source) are pretty much useless as most of the functions are handled by the wrapper. Think of it as soft-drivers (proprietary) vs hard-drivers (opensource).
There is also a lot that goes on behind the scenes. It's not uncommon for devs to share fixes and such with each other. Lets say I find a way to make the mopho print money (I wish this was true). Unless I'm a complete d*ck, I'd send other devs a PM/email and give the code to any devs that want it. The most I may ask for is a mention in the credits.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The manufacturers are looking to create a competitive advantage between themselves and their "competition" (re: HTC vs. Motorola) so they proprietarize and hope to win. Where they lack foresight is that those "competitors" are the least of their problems; external forces drive the competitive market and these include Apple, RIM and Nokia. Open sourcing more of their code would leave them with many benefits and a handful of weaknesses, but the benefits would far outweigh the losses. They may not want the community to see their sloppy code or quality untested code. When everyone's watching, the audience able to poke holes in your quality is magnitudes larger than your QA folks. I've had my fair share of holes poked, but that's the joy - live and learn.
OP, the entire Android platform is based off a combination of coders' work, from the home dev up to Linus Torvalds.
I'm thankful for what those who dev on here do, because it can be a grueling and unappreciated process; but when it works >= expectations, hallelujah!
can someone tell me why the developers have 2.3.4 rom in development, with bugs and little support ??? when it is better to devote time to a single good and seriously attended !!!!
Sent from my Redmi 3S using XDA-Developers Legacy app
Same question. There are a few devs who would work on one build then abandon the project completely, and make another build of a different ROM.
Because most of that So called Development is just copy paste job. those guys don't actually develop anything by themselves. otherwise they could have fixed it, instead they wait for actual developers to fix it and just copy from them. :silly:
kraatus90 said:
Because most of that So called Development is just copy paste job. those guys don't actually develop anything by themselves. otherwise they could have fixed it, instead they wait for actual developers to fix it and just copy from them. :silly:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agreed
[email protected] said:
can someone tell me why the developers have 2.3.4 rom in development, with bugs and little support ??? when it is better to devote time to a single good and seriously attended !!!!
Sent from my Redmi 3S using XDA-Developers Legacy app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
kraatus90 said:
Because most of that So called Development is just copy paste job. those guys don't actually develop anything by themselves. otherwise they could have fixed it, instead they wait for actual developers to fix it and just copy from them. :silly:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. You will know then answer when you try to compile one ROM (Not developing).
2. Compiling a ROM is not just a Copy & Paste work. If it's so... Do yourself.... (its just copy & paste nah..?)
So here is a answer. I'm also started Android Development just 2 weeks ago. And i compiled 4 different ROMs : Lineage, Candy, Slim, Glaze. I'm not doing it for you. But for me. I wanted to learn, no one can start from "Coding Everything from Scratch" especially legacy softwares like kernel and other things. So we start from compiling.... When we successfully compiled a ROM by facing and fixing many Errors. We move on to a new ROM, Coz New ROM will give new errors and we can learn to fix them. You may ask "Why you cant learn from Improving a rom...?" and my answer is "NO ONE IS GONNA TEACH ME HOW TO IMPROVE A ROM". Self learning needs lots of trial and error. So we building many ROMs. If you don't like that or you are a cry baby who cries for "XXXXX is not working" or "Poor XXXX". Just stick with STOCK ROM. XDA is for Learning and Not Only for SERVING YOU A BUG FREE, FULLY OPTIMIZED, FULLY FEATURED CUSTOM ROM for FREE.
Sorry.... if anything hurts anyone... I mean it.
dineshthangavel47 said:
1. You will know then answer when you try to compile one ROM (Not developing).
2. Compiling a ROM is not just a Copy & Paste work. If it's so... Do yourself.... (its just copy & paste nah..?)
So here is a answer. I'm also started Android Development just 2 weeks ago. And i compiled 4 different ROMs : Lineage, Candy, Slim, Glaze. I'm not doing it for you. But for me. I wanted to learn, no one can start from "Coding Everything from Scratch" especially legacy softwares like kernel and other things. So we start from compiling.... When we successfully compiled a ROM by facing and fixing many Errors. We move on to a new ROM, Coz New ROM will give new errors and we can learn to fix them. You may ask "Why you cant learn from Improving a rom...?" and my answer is "NO ONE IS GONNA TEACH ME HOW TO IMPROVE A ROM". Self learning needs lots of trial and error. So we building many ROMs. If you don't like that or you are a cry baby who cries for "XXXXX is not working" or "Poor XXXX". Just stick with STOCK ROM. XDA is for Learning and Not Only for SERVING YOU A BUG FREE, FULLY OPTIMIZED, FULLY FEATURED CUSTOM ROM for FREE.
Sorry.... if anything hurts anyone... I mean it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why did you took it personally lol? it was just an observation. yes there are people who want to learn and they have to start somewhere. nothing wrong in that. but when you see same people doing exactly same thing for a long time and not improving upon that. it becomes clear what they are doing.
and i never ask for fix this fix that, cuz i know who are actually developing and who are just waiting for fix to be developed by someone else. so no point asking. you sound like someone who wants to learn. but that doesn't mean everyone else is like you. there are people who as i said haven't learn anything but just copy paste cherry-pick for donation money. i rarely see anyone with their own piece of code. happens even more with kernel btw.
and yes i have compiled cm13 2 year ago that's the reason why i know this, and currently using my own (copy-paste haha) kernel for both MG5/nexus 5x. although i haven't released it. nor i'll. (source is on my git if you don't believe).
Anyway, best of luck for your learning, i hope you will learn a lot and will be able to fix problems by yourself instead of waiting for others. it's a long road ahead :good:
First of all, people always mistake ROM/Kernel etc development (not talking about app and other development which are indeed) as profession of devs, they do it in their FREE time because they like it, for example you play basketball because you like it.
Secondly, when there is shortage of ROMs, you yourself would complain about it, please correct me if I'm wrong. Different ROMs have different flavours, and everyone of us likes tasting different flavours. If you're worried about why a thread owner isn't updating it, you can migrate to other one instead of complaining about it.
Some guys have enough skills to compile ROMs, but not the ability to work on source code. So they wait for fixes by those who work on source, and update their ROMs as soon as bug is fixed. Also, compiling can be the start of learning development for guys.
Although I agree with @kraatus90 on some points, there are some things that I don't. First of all, there's no point of redoing the whole kernel, vendor, tree source stuff when you can use the available code with some modifications, obviously the one who uses it have to give proper credits to the bringup dev and other contributors. Also it should be moral duty of the forker to improve the forked code, be it in small or big ways. Simply forking, compiling and PUBLISHING is certainly disheartening and condemnable.