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New Hero owner here... using it 3 weeks. LOVE the phone, love the 7 pages, love the widgets, love the screen, love SenseUI, HATE the capacitive screen.
Coming form windows mobile for past 5 years, i am expending at least 5x more time and energy to navigate or browse due to this "feature".
I am certain this has been hashed out here before, but I will settle for a short answer, even one that has a laundry list if you like.
All I ask is that you please tell me it has something to add other than MULTI-TOUCH. I could care less about pinch-zoom. Initially when seen on first i-phones it had a wow factor. But very soon on WM, with OperaMini, Netfront, Skyfire, Iris and other browsers, pinch-to-zoom was rendered irrelevant, as all of these browsers provided way more efficient way to zoom in, out, and frame the area of the screen you want to look at. One tap, or two taps, or grab a square positioner (netfront) and tap.
Regardless of marketing, not only were these solutions fantastic, I alos didn't feel any sense of loss.
Now that I HAVE multi-touch on Hero, it's way beyond "yawn". It's more like, "what in the world is the advantage here. all I see is that a capacitive screen is far inferior to a resistive screen for easily 25 reasons. I listed them elsewhere on an XDA "general" forum. Typing: worse. accurate hitting a target: worse, but not just worse, horrible. Tap-hold context menus, require twice as long to press in order to instruct the OS you're indeed pressing for the purpose of holding, vs pressing just to try to make contact. Takes twice the tap impact to activate GO and other action buttons.
So I am dying to hear what is the advantage I have been given on this fantastic $500 USD phone I bought?
2nd question: I am currently using the device straight out the box, with just maybe 25-50 aps or widgets form android marketplace -- which has been fantastically smooth user experience, with perfect degrees of feedback on what access each app will give to the phone etc... very reassuring.
Has the truly amazing world of XDA-devs made some of my major usability complaints above go away, or lessen (after rooting the phone and using a custom ROM)?
Sign me: Baffled and Dismayed in San Francisco
Are there no replies here because this has been previously beaten to death? If so, wold someone please point me to the best thread discussion on this subject matter?
Thank you.
personally, i love a capacitive screen for typing.. as long as you can hit the buttons. For me i have no problem in the horizontal view, but they shouldnt have used a "qwerty" keyboard in the horizontal view, i despise it aha.
for the browsers multi touch, personally i just think its kinda cool, but as you say not very productive.
so really to me, i just love the feeling of capacitive touch screens...when they work of course!
and i know that companies "try" to put capacitive screens on as much as possible (because the iphone and ipod touch are so popular) but you can only really have it on bigger screens. The hero has pretty much the "bare minimum" screen size, and thats why we have some problems!
sorry i didnt really answer your question, just my thoughts but i guess the advantage is (was ment to be) that iphone touch screen experience, but capacitive screens work much better when the buttons have space between them (on bigger screens!)
THis was very helpful thank you. I know what you mean that the glassy smoothness is elegant and competes, I guess, with the look & feel of the Apple handheld devices. But also you seem to be answering my question, which is really the essentiual thing wanted to know:
Apparently there is ZERO added-value that capacitive brings over resistive screen than pinch-zoom... and that glossy glass feeling.
Is this correct, though? Can it really be that the primary reason for running Android on a capacitive screen is its sexiness factor in comparing to glossy look of the iphone?
I know there MUST be threads galore at XDA regarding the value of stylus for rapid composing, and more rapidly scrolling thru a long list on contacts, going into something like 2x or 5x speed flashing through the letters of the alphabet, then slowing down to land on desired contact...
The HTC Leo thread addressed this quite a bit, with both groans and raves for that WM device...
xsirhc6x said:
personally, i love a capacitive screen for typing.. as long as you can hit the buttons. For me i have no problem in the horizontal view, but they shouldnt have used a "qwerty" keyboard in the horizontal view, i despise it aha.
for the browsers multi touch, personally i just think its kinda cool, but as you say not very productive.
so really to me, i just love the feeling of capacitive touch screens...when they work of course!
and i know that companies "try" to put capacitive screens on as much as possible (because the iphone and ipod touch are so popular) but you can only really have it on bigger screens. The hero has pretty much the "bare minimum" screen size, and thats why we have some problems!
sorry i didnt really answer your question, just my thoughts but i guess the advantage is (was ment to be) that iphone touch screen experience, but capacitive screens work much better when the buttons have space between them (on bigger screens!)
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well i used apple as more of an example but i dont think i was very clear before sorry!
Although the screen is glossy and well glass, but i ment that alot of people like having that "touch" not "tap" feel. like how with capacitive you can barely touch the screen and it responds whereas resistive you have to push on the screen. so this makes companies want to use capacitive so there putting it on alot of the bigger touch screen phones
quicksite said:
Coming form windows mobile for past 5 years, i am expending at least 5x more time and energy to navigate or browse due to this "feature"
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Click to collapse
well here is your problem. and I know exactly how you feel, having some PDA and SE P1 also with resistive touch. you'll have to get used to it, there is no other way. it looks similar, like, it's a touchscreen! but difference in technology makes it hard to shift your way of using it
same thing as forgetting clickable keyboards where you can feel edge of each key and you KNOW exactly what you have pressed... and believe me, when you get that feeling with almost microscopic P1 keyboard, first few weeks of brand new high tech on-screen typing makes you smash that phone into wall next to you... but it gets better with time
This is the correct answer. Most people prefer the touch feel of capacitive compared to the press needed for resistive screens.
xsirhc6x said:
well i used apple as more of an example but i dont think i was very clear before sorry!
Although the screen is glossy and well glass, but i ment that alot of people like having that "touch" not "tap" feel. like how with capacitive you can barely touch the screen and it responds whereas resistive you have to push on the screen. so this makes companies want to use capacitive so there putting it on alot of the bigger touch screen phones
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Click to collapse
I moved from an Omnia i900 (WM, resistive screen) to the HTC Hero (Android, capacitive screen) and I am really enjoying the sensitivity of the Hero's screen. Everything is activated with a feather-light touch which really adds to the experience of using a touchscreen device.
On the Omnia, when I tried to halt a scrolling list with my finger, more often than not, I would end up choosing an item instead of stopping the scolling. This got irritating enough that I ended up using the scroll bars most of the time. On the Hero, the scrolling list amazingly stops when my finger makes contact without any unintended item selection. This probably has to do with the sensitivity of the capacitive screen but whatever it is, it works brilliantly.
The only time when I miss the resistive screen is if I need to accurately touch points on the screen due to poorly designed software but this can generally be avoided. Copy and paste could potentially have been a pain with a capacitive screen but the Hero has a trackball which gets the job done quite well.
I agree that multi-touch is nice to have but not critical. It is the sensitivity of the capacitive screen that really makes my day !
IMHO the capacitive screen is one of the best parts of my Hero (the other is not having to use clunky Windows Mobile anymore). It makes it so much more user friendly - and that attribute is what has made the iphone the best seller it is.
It is so much easier to scroll through my emails, texts, contacts, apps etc without accidently clicking on one and opening. And the same applies when scrolling between screens. In my last phone (HTC Touch Diamond) I was forever opening apps and windows I did not mean to when trying to scroll up down or sideways.
And scrolling long lists (I have over 200 contacts) is so easy. Just flick and let it run and then stop it with a finger. Try that on a non-capacitive screen and you are likely to open something you did not mean to open.
And, admittedly after a bit of practice, I have found the QERTY keyboard is no problem at all. It is almost as easy to use with my finger as my TD was with a stylus. And it is even easier when you are in landscape mode.
Still, each to his/her own. If, after giving it some time to get used to, you still don't like it I am sure there are plenty of alternatives out there - it always amazes me the number of different high-end phones HTC makes.
Resistive touch screen: You have to press harder to make it work better (Rinzai school)
Capacitive touch screen: You have to touch lighter to make it work better (Soto school)
Volker1 said:
Resistive touch screen: You have to press harder to make it work better (Rinzai school)
Capacitive touch screen: You have to touch lighter to make it work better (Soto school)
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Click to collapse
Well somehow you faked me out with your zen-like branch differentiations. I clicked on Soto school first --- and I thought, therefore, that when I clicked on Rinzai, it would communicate more aggressive, harder. But it didn't!
Thus, i don't understand your analogy other than making it up in my head, with the meaning being:
Expend less energy and force, grasshopper, and all will be revealed.
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Click to collapse
Since the day of my posting this topic, I am starting to feel a shift by gentler tapping. In some cases, yes, I am seeing a difference in better responsiveness.
But I have to admit that this is not always the case. Leading to:
Dac0908:
well here is your problem. and I know exactly how you feel, having some PDA and SE P1 also with resistive touch. you'll have to get used to it, there is no other way.
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Click to collapse
I am starting to get it. Quick illustration: My sim card (my old one from t-mobile wing) happens to be going bad, I just discovered. So I had to swap it out from my HERO back to my WING just to see if I could make a phone call. I had not used the WING (resistive) for a while.
I immediately started making mistakes in the opposite direction. I wasn't pushing hard enough now, and was not activating my selection. So, young grasshopper may be getting the Zen of Capacitive Touch!
it looks similar, like, it's a touchscreen! but difference in technology makes it hard to shift your way of using it. same thing as forgetting clickable keyboards where you can feel edge of each key and you KNOW exactly what you have pressed... and believe me, when you get that feeling with almost microscopic P1 keyboard, first few weeks of brand new high tech on-screen typing makes you smash that phone into wall next to you... but it gets better with time
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I get your point exactly... So, sounds like the people in this forum who have had their HEROs for longer time... must think I am just whining! ha hah
Here are my conclusions thus far:
(a) lighter touch IS helping select more easily.
(b) I began to do as others have said on the soft keyboard-- aim your finger just a nudge above the keys. (because the point of tangency between finger and screen is quite a bit below the tip of the fingernail) (** me thinks they should provide a settings option called "Offset finger touch?" -- and I could select that to in fact shift all the target zones of the on-screen keys slightly below the way they display on-screen, thereby improving accuracy dramatically.)
(c) even with "getting used to" adjustments, the accuracy on the portrait-layout keyboard is still lower on those left edge and right edge keys... And thus I am finding that landscape keyboard is almost becoming required for me (and i have thin fingers!)
(d) On the WM resistive screen, I found that, when using handwriting via stylus, the system really did LEARN to compensate for the style of handwriting of an individual by going thru the alphabet to select the path of drawing each letter that best matches how I write... it absolutely improved handwriting recognition) (AND MAY AS WELL SAY: I miss that the most of all things: I loved being able to jot notes down with stylus and handwriting. I used that daily... SO I miss it)
Similarly, there is an OFFSET ANGLE adjustment on the WM input screen controls, which absolutely made a huge difference: I the natural positioning of a hand and fingers in resting mode on a flat object (a screen) has one's index finger aiming on an angle inward. Thus, the angle adjustment was a smart user interface setting, that I would guess WM came up with over time, as better recognition of this issue surfaced.
(e) I can't expect to use my capacitive screen phone in the lazy ways I used my WM phone with resistive: ie, laying down in bed and tapping out a message to send. When I try to do that with Hero, the angles of finger-contact with the screen are "off" from a standing or sitting alignment of where you hold the device and how you strike the keys. Trying to tap out a note using portrait mode, while laying in bed, and holding phone to its side (or any other awkward position) = probably 10% success rate of hitting the correct keys... Mostly due to that distance-factor between the tip of the finger -- the sight-targeting cross-hairs used for decades in pressing most things that need pressing -- and the underside of the finger, which makes the contact point lower than the tip by a somewhat predictable distance.
I still think there are some ways to go where various compensation settings could nail those issues and bring touch accuracy to much higher percentage, especially in those situations of at what angle you're holding the device in one hand, and tapping with the other hand, is "off", like laying in bed.
(f) Accelerometer: again, when laying in bed (lazy mode), the auto portrait-landscape shifting almost never occurs and i have to hold the phone parallel to the ground and flick it in order to get the layout adjustment, then continue at whatever angle it is I am holding the phone.
(g) WISHLIST #2: (after handwriting/ capacitive stylus is brought to market by HTC, etc) .. is: COntext-sensitive accelerometer.. such that it works in almost any hand-held 3d location, and a 90 degree shift = a shift layout command.
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Okay, these are my responses from a Human Factors Interface Design professional background.
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Maybe I will have to talk to "Charles", the guy in my nieghborhood in San Francisco, who just happens to be the designer of the original G1 for Google, both in form factor and user interface of android...
San Francisco can be pretty interesting in that way.. you never know who you'll bump into, just like in L.A. with movie stars!
kenkaw said:
I am really enjoying the sensitivity of the Hero's screen. Everything is activated with a feather-light touch which really adds to the experience of using a touchscreen device....On the Hero, the scrolling list amazingly stops when my finger makes contact without any unintended item selection. This probably has to do with the sensitivity of the capacitive screen but whatever it is, it works brilliantly.
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Click to collapse
I am starting to feel this now, too. So I am shifting mental gears in my head.
Copy and paste could potentially have been a pain with a capacitive screen but the Hero has a trackball which gets the job done quite well.
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Click to collapse
This is actually where I have the most problems.... way more than touching the screen, which I am becoming accustomed to, and now seeing what p[eople are saying about feathertouch responsiveness.
I have not been able to find any settings for trackball responsiveness, the kind you'd find on any laptop for the touchpad or mouse rate of movement -- from super fast to super slow. IS there such an adjustment?
I want to love the trackball, and I am getting better at it. But to me, this is almost just the opposite of featherweight touch on screen. My finger "wants" a more "sticky" or locked-on connection to the trackball, so i can control it better with micro-movements. For me, right now, it is so slippery as to super-slide way out of range, and shifting fields on form data entry, and , when I am using it on a slider bar such as for volume control or color mixing (chnaging color of a background), it's sensitivity is way too wild for even a light touch attempt to control it
QUESTION: I am not yet using any rooted rom from XDA... I am still experiencing the Hero out of the box. So, are there any added control settings that people at XDA have figured out and added to the custom ROMS?
thank you
I agree that multi-touch is nice to have but not critical. It is the sensitivity of the capacitive screen that really makes my day ![/QUOTE]
peterc10 said:
And scrolling long lists (I have over 200 contacts) is so easy. Just flick and let it run and then stop it with a finger.
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Click to collapse
I a starting to feel this now. I was flicking too hard initially -- as part of my learning curve. I am now getting the hang of it and am getting the kind of control you speak of. nice!
it always amazes me the number of different high-end phones HTC makes.
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Click to collapse
No ****. what an amazing company... and why I like how XDA-developers built up around HTC... This is a serious question: Is HTC a good stock buy? They seem like moreso than ever, with their new branding and direct-to-consumer marketing campaigns (at least in the USA, big time), ready to leap out as a huge brand in the way Samsung shot up from obscurity many years ago, into a top-5 leading brand of electrionics.
Hey all, I searched, but couldn't find anything on this.
I'm here in Canada. This is my first Android phone/Touchscreen phone. So i'm not sure if the issue is just my lack of experience or if there is a legit issue.
(btw I ordered my sgs2 from handtec, and got it with no issues.)
Issue:
Dead screen sensor?
Symptoms: (see below picture for example)
My issue is when I am in portrait mode (with the samsung branding at the top), swyping words that start with
A,S,Z (and to some extent W,E,D) letters it "hiccups"? for lack of a better description and registers that i hit/touched both S and Z instead of just S.
When I'm in landscape mode (with samsung to the left) It appears to be the K and M letters. which correspond to the areas of S,D,Z,X from portrait mode....
Question:
Does this happen to anyone else? Is this me? or the screen? or what?
I love swyping, but this just ruins the experience as i can't seem to ever get it to accept what i'm typing/swyping with any word starting with aszd
as an addendum, I can replicate it practically all the time.
It almost seems as if the screen stops recognizing the swype/finger, then has to start again and so then re-registers a starting point, and then the prediction is wrong because of the sudden stop/start.
After looking at the problem a bit more, and using one of the test codes to test the screen, I found that swyping slowing from right to left near the problem area reveals a spot where the line deviates from my swype path.
Possible that I have a bad screen with a dead sensor area?
Here is a picture of what i mean: my finger line never changes - ie: it's straight. note the line that results though!!
Second picture:
I've taken a screen cap on the test page to show you what i mean. I think there is a dead sensor space and the line jumps to the next nearest sensor. It is very annoying, and makes text-tapping, or swyping, very very difficult.
see picture. In this picture i am swyping my finger from right to left. The lines seem to be straight in some areas north/south of the problem area, but when the line meets the problem area, it swerves. above or below.
Sigh, nobody?
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA Premium App
Just as an update, if anybody else is/was having this issue: Turns out the screen had a dead spot on the sensors. Had to ship phone back to Handtec (at my cost which sux) for a replacement. Still waiting for replacement.
I just bought my 80 G9. Before I start rooting and romming and warranty voiding I thought I should ask in case these are defects:
In landscape mode, is it normal for the viewing angle to be better if the tablet pointed down instead of up? In other words, if I have the screen down on a table and I'm looking at roughly a 45 degree angle 18" away, it's not good. Yet if I prop it up almost vertical in the same place, 18" away, below my line of site, it looks amazing. Head-on it looks kind of ok, but videos and dark images get washed out. (And using it in portrait is odd too - the screen looks good if I tilt it to the left. Otherwise, the screen looks different to each eye).
The second thing I experienced is, there seems to be a touch dead zone in the top middle of the screen, right where the X's are in Chrome for a second or third tab (it takes about 5 taps to finally get one to land on the X). I haven't found any other dead areas.
If both of these are common issues I can live with them.
Face Of Boe said:
I just bought my 80 G9. Before I start rooting and romming and warranty voiding I thought I should ask in case these are defects:
In landscape mode, is it normal for the viewing angle to be better if the tablet pointed down instead of up? In other words, if I have the screen down on a table and I'm looking at roughly a 45 degree angle 18" away, it's not good. Yet if I prop it up almost vertical in the same place, 18" away, below my line of site, it looks amazing. Head-on it looks kind of ok, but videos and dark images get washed out. (And using it in portrait is odd too - the screen looks good if I tilt it to the left. Otherwise, the screen looks different to each eye).
The second thing I experienced is, there seems to be a touch dead zone in the top middle of the screen, right where the X's are in Chrome for a second or third tab (it takes about 5 taps to finally get one to land on the X). I haven't found any other dead areas.
If both of these are common issues I can live with them.
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Click to collapse
Do you have a 80G9? Its viewing angles seem to suck
The 2nd issue I have as well, it appeared more in ics so I'm hoping its a software issue and will be fixed soon
Sent from my ice cream powered Nexus S
DarkhShadow said:
Do you have a 80G9? Its viewing angles seem to suck
The 2nd issue I have as well, it appeared more in ics so I'm hoping its a software issue and will be fixed soon
Sent from my ice cream powered Nexus S
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, 80 G9.
I'm quickly getting used to the angle.
As for the touch, I ran a drawing program and sure enough there's an 8th inch margin around the whole screen where touching is difficult.
Hi,
i've got the same thing on my 80G9.
After a screen calibration and after the last update, the touchscreen is ok.
The viewing angle is very bad on this tablet in landscape. Try to do a 180° rotation. I only find this solution to watch correctly
Its designed to be optimally viewed using the stand so that's probably why the viewing angle sucks flat and Straight.
I think the dead area is not a dead area its just chrome takes a while to respond due to its huge memory requirements with tabs.
As for voiding the warranty : If you use custom roms from here (XDA) and NOT Official then your device won't be watermarked and won't void the warranty. Just remember to total factory reset/wipe and remove SDE Menu system before you ship it back if it needs a repair.
Psi.
psiman24 said:
Its designed to be optimally viewed using the stand so that's probably why the viewing angle sucks flat and Straight.
I think the dead area is not a dead area its just chrome takes a while to respond due to its huge memory requirements with tabs.
As for voiding the warranty : If you use custom roms from here (XDA) and NOT Official then your device won't be watermarked and won't void the warranty. Just remember to total factory reset/wipe and remove SDE Menu system before you ship it back if it needs a repair.
Psi.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I installed multitouch visual test from the market, and there was a definite dead zone. The taps would be extremely accurate up until you reached 1/8-1/4 from the edge, and suddenly nine out of ten taps would land on the very edge. Tapping on chrome tab buttons was merely a symptom.
So I returned the G9 and exchanged it (I had drove 2 hours to a store to buy it in the first place, and luckily found an excuse to go back within the 14 day return period). I exchanged it, and tested it on the spot. The accuracy of the edges was much better. I'd say nine out of ten taps near the edges were within 5 pixels (whereas in the center they were dead on). Not quite a scientific test, but definitely noticeably better. And tapping on things near the edge like chrome tabs worked 9/10 times.
That was yesterday. I got home, started playing with it, turned the tablet to rotate it, and no rotate. I know rotation worked earlier in the day while I was testing it - it had rotated while in my lap at an almost flat angle. Still I double checked the rotation settings, did a factory reset, upgraded to stock 4.0.6. It's still stuck in landscape mode.
So I'm out. I'll find another excuse to drive 2 hours each way back to the store sometime in the next 2 weeks, and probably exchange it for something else (with any luck the nexus will be out).
It's too bad too. I really liked it. The price was phenominal, the hardware design straightforward, the os non-bloated, etc. From what I read there aren't a lot of problems with the hardware. I just have dumb luck I guess.
Hi Face Of Boe!
Face Of Boe said:
I installed multitouch visual test from the market, and there was a definite dead zone. The taps would be extremely accurate up until you reached 1/8-1/4 from the edge, and suddenly nine out of ten taps would land on the very edge. Tapping on chrome tab buttons was merely a symptom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I got two A80S tablets and no problems with touchscreen here.
Just to inform you about some features of ICS:
Have a look in the settings...
- Developer options
- User Interface
- Show touches
After activating this option a light spot is shown after touching the screen.
No need for an external tool to check the accuracy of your touchscreen .
Regards,
scholbert
scholbert said:
Hi Face Of Boe!
I got two A80S tablets and no problems with touchscreen here.
Just to inform you about some features of ICS:
Have a look in the settings...
- Developer options
- User Interface
- Show touches
After activating this option a light spot is shown after touching the screen.
No need for an external tool to check the accuracy of your touchscreen .
Regards,
scholbert
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks! This certainly won't be my last ICS device, so that's good to know!
So I just have one concern as the title says moving to the sony line and that's the lack of physical / off the screen home/back/menu buttons. I've gone from a Galaxy S, to Galaxy S II, to iPhone 5.. now I'm heading back to Android on my personal phone as I've got a 5S from work.. and I'm really ready to give sony a try after years of Samsung.
The only thing I am very nervous about is the fact that there is no physical home button on the Sony, meaning that effectively you're losing out on a fixed portion of the screen for a home / menu /back button instead of it being fixed in the bezel / frame of the phone and out of the way of your display area. I dont understand why this isn't talked about more often in reviews about the sony. Isn't this effectively eliminating a normally useable portion of the screen's resolution? also if the phone locks up.. where as before you could count on a hardware home button to try and force some action.. what happens with the sony implementation?
I realize that this is similar to the Nexus 5, but I guess this could be directed to both phones, it seems to me like, (correct me if i'm wrong as I've stepped away from android after the galaxy S II for the past year or so) if you fire up a full screen video game, the home/menu/back UI software buttons will just be there in the software at all times taking away from the full screen experience of the screens. Isn't having a hardware button a significant benefit not only for full screen real estate, but for quick access to task management and home (example, what steps do i need to worry about with the sony to get out of a full screen movie and immediately to the desktop with no home button?) instead of one button press which I can access blindly anywhere, i have to press a few targeted screen commands?
I really feel like there are strong points to be given for a hardware home / menu / back button, to recap, 1.) more real estate can be used on the screen at all times for the rest of the UI, 2.) not as quick no look access to task manager / multitasking / home 3.) significantly worse full screen gaming experience due to the persistent ui / on screen softkeys.
This is the only thing thats tipping me towards the Galaxy S 5, I guess i wanted to ask what your real world usage with this sony implementation is like and if you feel it is really a hinderance or not. Thanks!
nickbarbs said:
So I just have one concern as the title says moving to the sony line and that's the lack of physical / off the screen home/back/menu buttons. I've gone from a Galaxy S, to Galaxy S II, to iPhone 5.. now I'm heading back to Android on my personal phone as I've got a 5S from work.. and I'm really ready to give sony a try after years of Samsung.
The only thing I am very nervous about is the fact that there is no physical home button on the Sony, meaning that effectively you're losing out on a fixed portion of the screen for a home / menu /back button instead of it being fixed in the bezel / frame of the phone and out of the way of your display area. I dont understand why this isn't talked about more often in reviews about the sony. Isn't this effectively eliminating a normally useable portion of the screen's resolution? also if the phone locks up.. where as before you could count on a hardware home button to try and force some action.. what happens with the sony implementation?
I realize that this is similar to the Nexus 5, but I guess this could be directed to both phones, it seems to me like, (correct me if i'm wrong as I've stepped away from android after the galaxy S II for the past year or so) if you fire up a full screen video game, the home/menu/back UI software buttons will just be there in the software at all times taking away from the full screen experience of the screens. Isn't having a hardware button a significant benefit not only for full screen real estate, but for quick access to task management and home (example, what steps do i need to worry about with the sony to get out of a full screen movie and immediately to the desktop with no home button?) instead of one button press which I can access blindly anywhere, i have to press a few targeted screen commands?
I really feel like there are strong points to be given for a hardware home / menu / back button, to recap, 1.) more real estate can be used on the screen at all times for the rest of the UI, 2.) not as quick no look access to task manager / multitasking / home 3.) significantly worse full screen gaming experience due to the persistent ui / on screen softkeys.
This is the only thing thats tipping me towards the Galaxy S 5, I guess i wanted to ask what your real world usage with this sony implementation is like and if you feel it is really a hinderance or not. Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey Nick, yeah I see your anxiety, for a while I had the same.
To be honest the fact that there is no home button, aesthetically, for me is a massive plus. I love the idea of just a blank slate where everything is controlled from the screen. I actually hated the samsung implementation of having a touchscreen PLUS hardware button PLUS capacitive buttons. To me that's extremely messy. The all-touchscreen phone is the ultimate minimalism, and I think it's this minimalism that is attractive and impressive as tech goes forward into the future. Hardware buttons on the front face are becoming (and should be) a thing of the past.
In relation to the screen real-estate problem, which I too will have when I get my xperia z2, you should do what I plan on doing and download an app called GMD AUTOHIDE. Youtube it.
There are many others but from youtube this looks the most fully featured. You need to be rooted, but once you have it you can hide and summon the software keys at your leisure (and in different ways), thus using the full screen real estate when you need to and bringing the buttons back easily with a slide up or some other gesture.
Youtube it, it looks awesome.
ps. if you're afraid to root or just don't want to, there are certain apps that support android's 'immersive mode' which means when launched the software keys hide anyway.
It's the way Google have been pushing since ICS, and to be fair it is a good way of doing things. It enables larger screens for movie playback for a start. Instead if thinking it as a waste of screen real estate, think of it as buttons being a waste of bezel. The buttons will always be buttons, but with on screen buttons, the space can be used more. In regards to the hardware button being an override for crashes, I've had a nexus 7 (2012) since launch, and it's never ever been a problem.
Once you get past the need for physical touch, the on-screen buttons will be God sent. Not only does that allow the screen to be bigger, but you can customize the button and do other cool stuff.
I think a number of phones cross platforms are heading towards no physical button.
edge3uk said:
It's the way Google have been pushing since ICS, and to be fair it is a good way of doing things. It enables larger screens for movie playback for a start. Instead if thinking it as a waste of screen real estate, think of it as buttons being a waste of bezel. The buttons will always be buttons, but with on screen buttons, the space can be used more. In regards to the hardware button being an override for crashes, I've had a nexus 7 (2012) since launch, and it's never ever been a problem.
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I agree somewhat that google has been going this way, but disagree that it's a good way of doing things and also disagree that it enables larger screens.
** Disclaimer ** these are just my opinions
1. I see Google's Nexus phone (yes I've owned 2 of them) as a framework for Android, not so much what it wants all other Android manufacturers to go. For example, the SD-Card. No Nexus devices come with an SD-Card. Does this mean that SD-Cards will die on Android? As we can see, their inclusion is becoming more widespread, not the other way around.
2. Agree that hardware buttons aren't ideal. However, I see nothing wrong with capacitive buttons. Make them generic shapes so users can assign custom actions to them. It would free up space, allow everyone to be happy, and allow for things like swipe-2-wake with little to no battery penalty.
3. Capacitive buttons were removed on the HTC M8, did the bezel go away, no. I think the LG G2 is the phone with the smallest bezels on record and it still has plenty of space for capacitive buttons below the screen.
With all that said, I don't think it's a big deal to have on-screen buttons. They work the same and with android making the UI elements transparent it doesn't feel as bad as before when it really felt like it cut down on screen space. Honestly, I don't know what was so wrong about the original 4-way capacitive button layout from a few generations back. Menu, Home, Back, Search. I'd love for someone to explain to me how searching for 3 dots or if there's a pullout pane on the left or right is better than always being able to press a menu capacitive button.
se1000 said:
I agree somewhat that google has been going this way, but disagree that it's a good way of doing things and also disagree that it enables larger screens.
** Disclaimer ** these are just my opinions
1. I see Google's Nexus phone (yes I've owned 2 of them) as a framework for Android, not so much what it wants all other Android manufacturers to go. For example, the SD-Card. No Nexus devices come with an SD-Card. Does this mean that SD-Cards will die on Android? As we can see, their inclusion is becoming more widespread, not the other way around.
2. Agree that hardware buttons aren't ideal. However, I see nothing wrong with capacitive buttons. Make them generic shapes so users can assign custom actions to them. It would free up space, allow everyone to be happy, and allow for things like swipe-2-wake with little to no battery penalty.
3. Capacitive buttons were removed on the HTC M8, did the bezel go away, no. I think the LG G2 is the phone with the smallest bezels on record and it still has plenty of space for capacitive buttons below the screen.
With all that said, I don't think it's a big deal to have on-screen buttons. They work the same and with android making the UI elements transparent it doesn't feel as bad as before when it really felt like it cut down on screen space. Honestly, I don't know what was so wrong about the original 4-way capacitive button layout from a few generations back. Menu, Home, Back, Search. I'd love for someone to explain to me how searching for 3 dots or if there's a pullout pane on the left or right is better than always being able to press a menu capacitive button.
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I completely understand what you mean. The fact the M8 has the bezel and onscreen buttons is a major factor as why im not getting one. It's ridiculous. On-screen buttons do allow more screen in a same-size device, which is a better way of saying what I was trying to say. I'm all for on screen buttons.
For the record, more devices may be including sd card slots, but with kitkat, it's a bit of a pain in the arse. I'll be okay, I don't like so many apps installed, I'm quite tidy, but 16gb and an sd card seems to have replaced 32gb, which could be used for whatever you liked. I don't want to have to root my Z2, Im kinda looking forward to getting a phone that just does everything I want it to out if the box. I have a one X at the minute, and the capacitive buttons are brilliant, but I'd trade the space they take up for more screen in a second.
se1000 said:
I agree somewhat that google has been going this way, but disagree that it's a good way of doing things and also disagree that it enables larger screens.
** Disclaimer ** these are just my opinions
1. I see Google's Nexus phone (yes I've owned 2 of them) as a framework for Android, not so much what it wants all other Android manufacturers to go. For example, the SD-Card. No Nexus devices come with an SD-Card. Does this mean that SD-Cards will die on Android? As we can see, their inclusion is becoming more widespread, not the other way around.
2. Agree that hardware buttons aren't ideal. However, I see nothing wrong with capacitive buttons. Make them generic shapes so users can assign custom actions to them. It would free up space, allow everyone to be happy, and allow for things like swipe-2-wake with little to no battery penalty.
3. Capacitive buttons were removed on the HTC M8, did the bezel go away, no. I think the LG G2 is the phone with the smallest bezels on record and it still has plenty of space for capacitive buttons below the screen.
With all that said, I don't think it's a big deal to have on-screen buttons. They work the same and with android making the UI elements transparent it doesn't feel as bad as before when it really felt like it cut down on screen space. Honestly, I don't know what was so wrong about the original 4-way capacitive button layout from a few generations back. Menu, Home, Back, Search. I'd love for someone to explain to me how searching for 3 dots or if there's a pullout pane on the left or right is better than always being able to press a menu capacitive button.
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Click to collapse
This domino effect wherein all your favorite things might fall one after another has nothing to do with whether physical nav buttons are a good idea. I personally hate not having an SD card myself but it just isn't an argument for or against the nav button type. Also the battery penalty is meaningless as you could as easily have any portion of the screen sensitive to swipe or tapping as you ca the cap buttons with exactly the same power draw. You might notice that two of the three upcoming flagship phones now have tap to wake/sleep.
Your last point I agree with, there is plenty of space for four buttons which I preferred while still having room for a button to show dynamically like the menu button often does. This is as the fellow you quoted said one of the best parts of not having physical or cap buttons. On my N5 I use four and move them where I want them. Sure you could do that with caps but what you couldn't do is please everyone. I could have one button up to five in any combination since there is no limitation of having the cap buttons themselves deciding the manner. You should also be aware that the phone can produce the buttons on the fly and use the area as screen instead which actually works pretty well in use.
In the end I guess I deal with it by liking it better.
se1000 said:
I agree somewhat that google has been going this way, but disagree that it's a good way of doing things and also disagree that it enables larger screens.
** Disclaimer ** these are just my opinions
1. I see Google's Nexus phone (yes I've owned 2 of them) as a framework for Android, not so much what it wants all other Android manufacturers to go. For example, the SD-Card. No Nexus devices come with an SD-Card. Does this mean that SD-Cards will die on Android? As we can see, their inclusion is becoming more widespread, not the other way around.
2. Agree that hardware buttons aren't ideal. However, I see nothing wrong with capacitive buttons. Make them generic shapes so users can assign custom actions to them. It would free up space, allow everyone to be happy, and allow for things like swipe-2-wake with little to no battery penalty.
3. Capacitive buttons were removed on the HTC M8, did the bezel go away, no. I think the LG G2 is the phone with the smallest bezels on record and it still has plenty of space for capacitive buttons below the screen.
With all that said, I don't think it's a big deal to have on-screen buttons. They work the same and with android making the UI elements transparent it doesn't feel as bad as before when it really felt like it cut down on screen space. Honestly, I don't know what was so wrong about the original 4-way capacitive button layout from a few generations back. Menu, Home, Back, Search. I'd love for someone to explain to me how searching for 3 dots or if there's a pullout pane on the left or right is better than always being able to press a menu capacitive button.
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Click to collapse
I completely understand your worry, but as said, you can change your mind pretty quickly. I went from a Xperia X10 Mini Pro (with physical navigation buttons) to a Xperia S (capacitative nav. buttons), and now coupled with a Tablet Z (on screen navigation buttons). First improvement I had from the X10 MP to the XS, was that even with tight spaces (pockets, or whatever), the buttons weren't pressed by accident. The capacitative buttons on the XS are a bit hard to press at first, but you easily get used to them. Unlike Samsung's, they don't offer a high change of also being pressed by accident when holding the device.
Now, with the Tablet Z, with only on screen buttons, it was a worry for me at first, having both status bar and navigation bar, using more space. However, after a bit, I got used to it. With the awesome Double Tap to Wake function, I almost never need to reach the power button anymore. Sometimes, I even get myself trying that on the XS, and wondering why it isn't working, only to then realize it doesn't have that function lol
When using media apps, like video players, gallery apps, etc, the buttons either hide completely or, with 4.4 devices, enter the Translucent Mode, where the bars have a gradient and the content can be seen under it. To bring them back, or swipe the status bar down once, or touch the screen once. So, in the important cases, they just go away, not taking your precious real screen state.
Regarding capacitative buttons, like you said, aren't that much of a big deal. But, believe me, switch to on screen buttons and you will see how better it is. When you don't need it, they simply go away. Also, it uses much less internal space to put them on the screen than capacitative ones. Last, but not least, they don't stop working
Regarding the HTC One M8, if you look at teardowns pictures, you will see that the "extra" bezel was needed to fit the components inside the phone. There's so much tech inside such a small body. It's not easy to put all of that inside that. If they were to reduce the bezel, they would need a ticker device. The Xperia Z2 has a quite big bezel compared to other devices, but like the M8, there's so much tech inside that body, that they need to sacrifice on something to compensate on others. Part is also due the OmniBalance design, that demands some harmony, symmetry.
Lastly, part of the answer to the 4 button vs 3 dots is based on what I said earlier, regarding accidental touches, etc. But, most importantly, is so that the user KNOWS there's another menu there, that they can access. With my old X10 MP, I took 1 to 2 months to really understand the use of that third button on the device. When I pressed it and saw a menu pop, I was like "Ohhh, so there's more stuff here!". That was the main idea, at least from what I know.
Btw, sorry for the huge post...
Also, some manufacturers are taking advantage of on-screen buttons to make really small bezels. Check out the LG G2 and the Moto X. Their bezels are small enough that putting physical buttons there would be extremely awkward, so you end up with a smaller device/larger screen (however you want to look at it) thanks to on-screen buttons. I have a feeling phone designs will increasingly move in that direction.
when the screen gets big, having a dedicated home button will be really awkward to press when you are holding the phone near the middle. i thought i will never able to escape from the home button from the galaxy line, but after using nexus 4, i could never go back to using the damn home button...
theclueless said:
when the screen gets big, having a dedicated home button will be really awkward to press when you are holding the phone near the middle. i thought i will never able to escape from the home button from the galaxy line, but after using nexus 4, i could never go back to using the damn home button...
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Thanks for your comments- looks people do have views on this but many of you are fine with it - can anyone confirms how these software navigation keys will behave in games and movies ? Do they ever disappear ? How do you get them back if so?
Thanks - I'm feeling a bit better about trying it out ...
nickbarbs said:
can anyone confirms how these software navigation keys will behave in games and movies ? Do they ever disappear ? How do you get them back if so?
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Almost all movie apps will cause them to disappear. This has been a feature of Android for quite a while now. You just tap the screen and they come back.
A few games/apps also cause them to disappear. This is a new feature of Android as of KitKat (4.4) known as "immersive mode," so there are limited games/apps that support it. You get the controls back by swiping from the top or bottom of the screen, but simply tapping or swiping elsewhere on the screen will not bring them back, so you can continue using the app/game in full-screen.
So, I have the HTC Desire 610 and i have had it for around 5 months now. I use a body glove case that sometimes comes off in my pocket. However, on the actual phone there is a "dead spot" which is a vertical line about a finger width in width going down the right side of my screen. it does not respond to touch, but acts like i am pressing both sides simultaneously on either side of the column. Also, the rest of the screen is becoming less responsive, requireing multiple taps to select something. Why? How do i fix this?
This is a common problem a lot of people have and the simply don't know why. Under the screen is something called a digitizer, which maps where you fingers are and sends the data to your phone, telling it what to do when you touch it. If it gets damaged, you get things like unresponsive spots on the screen and sometimes the screen will go crazy, and go all over the place. A new digitizer is needed, although there hard to put in and time consuming, so I recommend getting a new screen entirely.