I think about getting this deviced but I am not sure yet becouse of following things. First, how is the performence? No one really knows anything about that NovaThor Chip, is it comparable to ?Tegra2? ?Snapdragon s3? ?Exynos? and the Mali 400, is it the same as in SGS2 or has it less cores? How does it handle Games like MC3, Dungeon Defenders, Shadowgun and other high grafics Games? Would nice if someone could provide a Nenamark2 score.
Then what about flowting touch? Is it usefull? Do any third party apps support it?
Do you think the community will grow? Will there be stuff like CM9, AOKP, MIUI v4? Has FreeXperia said anything about support for other Xperia12 devices than the S?
And last but not least would you sugest this device?
IE-coRe said:
I think about getting this deviced but I am not sure yet becouse of following things. First, how is the performence? No one really knows anything about that NovaThor Chip, is it comparable to ?Tegra2? ?Snapdragon s3? ?Exynos? and the Mali 400, is it the same as in SGS2 or has it less cores? How does it handle Games like MC3, Dungeon Defenders, Shadowgun and other high grafics Games? Would nice if someone could provide a Nenamark2 score.
Then what about flowting touch? Is it usefull? Do any third party apps support it?
Do you think the community will grow? Will there be stuff like CM9, AOKP, MIUI v4? Has FreeXperia said anything about support for other Xperia12 devices than the S?
And last but not least would you sugest this device?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, as SONY says, Novathor is a smart battery-efficient chip in which it manages processes that the phone is doing smartly like if there are many processes that's active, the chip passes other processes to the other core for it to be processed there so there won't be much burden on the other core and they've said it's the reason why it's saving battery.
About the mali 400, yes it has a single core but it still performs at it's best.
I think floating touch is currently working on web pages only but again, sony said they will let developers to integrate it to other apps.
And once SONY releases source codes, SURELY, development will finally start, just give it some time.
Finally, it depends on how you will use the phone. It lacks front-facing camera, the battery cannot be removed, camera shutter is hard to press. Those are the disadvantages of this phone to say the least. But beside that it's a pretty decent phone for it's price range, and hey it's from SONY.
Hope you already got all the answers to your questions .. It's really up to you now if you're gonna choose it.
Thank you that was very helpfull but i still dont know enough about the grafic performence. How does it run HD games? Can you make a Nenamark2 test for me? Sorry but this is very importend for me and google does not know much about it. =)
Gesendet von meinem R800i mit Tapatalk 2
the only thing i can say is that its really smooth. I didn´t tried many games, because the screen isn´t that big compared to Xperia S ^^ ... but I tried gba emulator and you see no difference between S and sola here.
Btw. it has a dual core cpu...
Floating touch is almost useless for me, but thats only my oppinion.
The Battery life is way better than on Xperia S!
I believe you're looking for this?
Nenamark 2: 29.4fps
http_//img822.imageshack.us/img822/4748/screenshot201205261005.png
Exacly, thanks. Seems to be better than tegra2 in everything. This makes the device very atractive for me. =)
Gesendet von meinem R800i mit Tapatalk 2
Any online retailer already selling it? ?
I'd like to put my hands on this little gizmo
Can anyone link or quote Sony's plans for floating touch? I've been googling it and can't find anything. The official Sony forum has a few threads but NO info on this. I'd love to see more floating touch e.g. music controls, lock screen, other browsers, menus etc. It could be so much more than one little (but expensive) gimmick...:good:
SharpnShiny said:
Can anyone link or quote Sony's plans for floating touch? I've been googling it and can't find anything. The official Sony forum has a few threads but NO info on this. I'd love to see more floating touch e.g. music controls, lock screen, other browsers, menus etc. It could be so much more than one little (but expensive) gimmick...:good:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think floating touch only for stock browser
Okay i got my xperia sola today, you can count me in guys
Sent from my MT27i using xda app-developers app
Related
Hello to all members,
I am totally new to this forum and I love it from the very first impression.
I am noob and I know nothing much about android, however I have started to read a lot on this forum. Thanks to all those nice helping guys around.
I am about to buy an android mobile, And, in my budged Sony Xperia X8 and LG Optimus One fits best. I am in great confusion about which phone i should buy.
What i think is X8 is definitely not going to get 2.2 update. But I liked it`s music quality. And in some review, i read that internet browsing his smoother on it than O1. Is that really true?
I want to use lot of internet and music. Please can someone help me out with this?
I done much googling on this, and finally created this thread.
So, in short i wanted to ask you guys to please help about following-
1)can I use those android mobiles as modem, i run windows XP
2)Is it better than symbian s60 ? I am using nokia n72 from past 4 years. Should I switch myself to android?
3)considering internet experiance, which mobile is better?
are there any good browsers available there for more better experiance?
4)according to your experiance, which one should i really buy?
I am waiting eagerly for your responses as I had lot of panic in deciding between these two mobiles. Also, if you know any mobile within same price range let me know.
1)can I use those android mobiles as modem, i run windows XP
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wireless/USB Tethering, i guess. Most new Android phones come with this Though I'm not sure if this applies to Eclair (2.1)
2)Is it better than symbian s60 ? I am using nokia n72 from past 4 years. Should I switch myself to android?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would say yes. Android is much more open and customizable than Symbian. However, Symbian devices require much less CPU and RAM. And in case you ask me, I'd go for Android.
3)considering internet experiance, which mobile is better?
are there any good browsers available there for more better experiance?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Both of them have a 320x480 resolution, so as screen readability is concerned, I think they're the same. Both don't have flash. There are many browsers are there designed for different kinds of goals. Skyfire, for instance, aims to be able to play those flash videos, even though the phone doesn't have flash player.
By the way, I think the X8 doesn't have multitouch, so no pinch zoom. Pinch zoom is important for me O1 scores here.
according to your experiance, which one should i really buy?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
O1, since we're going to get (hopefully) Gingerbread soon enough. + multitouch (though buggy), it's newer, bigger RAM and internal memory, etc.
It pretty much answers itself when you post the question in optimus one forum lol, personally I was also considering x8, but since I'm a techie, one look at the ram on x8 (I believe its 128mb) compared to 512mb on optimus one, it was a clear decision.
Thanks!
AzNxJoHnNy said:
It pretty much answers itself when you post the question in optimus one forum lol, personally I was also considering x8, but since I'm a techie, one look at the ram on x8 (I believe its 128mb) compared to 512mb on optimus one, it was a clear decision.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks so much for your reply AzNxJoHnNy. Yeah, As you said, I am almost about to buy O1. I think I will come to know more once I got my own hands on it.
Thank you so much!
kpbotbot said:
Wireless/USB Tethering, i guess. Most new Android phones come with this Though I'm not sure if this applies to Eclair (2.1)
I would say yes. Android is much more open and customizable than Symbian. However, Symbian devices require much less CPU and RAM. And in case you ask me, I'd go for Android.
Both of them have a 320x480 resolution, so as screen readability is concerned, I think they're the same. Both don't have flash. There are many browsers are there designed for different kinds of goals. Skyfire, for instance, aims to be able to play those flash videos, even though the phone doesn't have flash player.
By the way, I think the X8 doesn't have multitouch, so no pinch zoom. Pinch zoom is important for me O1 scores here.
O1, since we're going to get (hopefully) Gingerbread soon enough. + multitouch (though buggy), it's newer, bigger RAM and internal memory, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey kpbotbot, Thank you so much for your efforts and a VERY quick reply. I think I should go for O1 now. Are there any more mobiles you can suggest? just asking.
Nokia 1100
Google it.
mmost said:
Hey kpbotbot, Thank you so much for your efforts and a VERY quick reply. I think I should go for O1 now. Are there any more mobiles you can suggest? just asking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No problem. That's the power of being stuck at home lol. Anyway, here are other phones I considered in the same price range:
1. HTC Wildfire - didn't choose because of screen resolution (240x 320, too low).
2. Samsung Galaxy Spica - I thought there was no multitouch, is old (yeah, for me), no official Gingerbread (considering the fact that the decision was made last december 2010)
3. Galaxy 3/5 - Screen resolution, no Gingerbread.
4. Optimus Chic - I couldn't wait for the release. It was a good decision on choosing the O1 though, since there is no Chic subforum here in xda afaik.
5. Maybe I forgot some other phones. These were my best choices last December
Motorola defy is the next step forward from these phones. Google for it's specs.
The only + X8 has over O1 is headphone audio quality. O1 is pain for ears, even with good headphones.
There appears to be a big lack of development for this phone. Just wondering if anyone expects things to pickup? I just come from a galaxy nexus and while I know that that it's one of the most favored phones from the developers side, I'm currently disappointed by the lack of options wet currently have. There is like only 3 ICS Roms and 3 ICS kernels (1 only has OC ability) to choose from.
Love this phone though.
ej_424
Sent from my LT26i using xda app-developers app
When developers are going to buy this phone development would be better.
Sent from my LT22i using xda app-developers app
Development is still in progress! When freexperia team releases source, then we will get aokp ROM. Miui is aviable also cm 9 and cm 10 is aviable.
Gesendet von meinem Xperia S mit Tapatalk 2
It would be a dream if Huexx had a Sony Xperia S to develop a great rom like Zeus ROM for Optimus Black (i have one, trying to sell it). An incredible and organized work, with a great presence in the comunity, organized changelogs and constant updates! He also developed a nice kernel for CM9 (that original kernel from Cyanogen guys is bugged and crappy) that turned CM9 almost a usable ROM (not for me, since i really like listening music and podcasts with my phone). He did a really incredible work with Zeus! Should we ask him if he have interest in a Xperia S and donate one to him? XD haha! But really guys! Give a look at his work!
Yea...i two u man on dis...!!
Sent from my LT26i using xda premium
mainly because the people have got this phone on a contract there for the bootloader cant be unlocked as of this moment until setool or some other software manage to enable fastboot via testpoint. (exactly the reason i cant develop for this phone atm)
Soon many Arc/Arc S devs will come and support this phone.
Once we get CM9 and CM10 going you should see more development.
Oscar-Mark said:
Soon many Arc/Arc S devs will come and support this phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hehehe on the arc a lot of dev,s are gone to htc/s3.
A few teenagers are left there.
I'll try some serving during the summer, we'll see.. that's why I'm switching ROMs and making all these changes all the time, I'm learning about the phone's limits...
Sent from my Xperia S using xda app-developers app
this is what concers me too.. i started with galaxy s then galaxy s2.. but after that i switched to moto xoom, then galaxy tab 10.1 and then temprorarly galaxy ace.. i used samsung most of the time because of the unlocked bootloaders but i could never get used to the build quality and never got away from the screen burns of the amoled screen..
so my next preference was htc sensation XE.. this was the perfect phone for me definetely.. i had gread develeopment (since it was backed up by original sensation days), great sound quality and somehow quallcomm CPU and GPU was better than the arm based ones... i know the benchmarks say the opposite but i was using my sensation XE at 1.2 Ghz by setcpu and it was still fast enough and it never refused to play any game i thrown at.. but dust got under the screen after a few months and i sold it..
so my next was htc one x and it was a disaster with the greatest screen i have ever seen.. it was a joy to play with it but the problems were unsolveable for daily usage.. and no matter how much i love playing with my phone, messing things most of the time i need it as a ready and steady phone for daily usage.. with that heat, lack of S-off and other problems i sold it too..
so novadays i was looking at the galaxy note or s3 but then i decided to be realistic.. i love playing my games on the consoles and my computer.. so gamewise any phone would handle me because my expectations are low.. what i want is smooth web browsing, very good audio quality to listen lossless music and a good camera to shoot good photos and HD videos (not like a pro camera but at least sharp enough to make the moment freeze forever to remember later).. so i decided to go for nexus.. but then in a store i realised every galaxy phone had screen burns.. i know there are lots of ways to prevent it but still this time i made a promis and have to live with my next phone 1.5 year at least and i dont want to watch my leds die slowly and seperately in front of my eyes everyday..
so i decided to go back to sensation XE.. the most problem-free experience for me.. i care so much about graphic performance.. i think any CPU can handle anything novadays but GPU makes the difference.. so the adreno 220 in sensation XE was more than enough with the help of low-res screen and it was also OCable.. but then i saw a friends xperia s.. that changed everything.. until then i did not even look at any sony device.. not even accidentely..
now i really can not decide.. i have never been into any sony topics before so i am trying to learn but i guess on the development side xperia S is no match for sensation / XE..
so i am kind of scared about the high resolution of the screen.. XE is getting old and has only 768 mb of RAM but it has S-off and lots of developers will keep it as a legacy device.. besides i do not have to worry about warranty since there is S-off...
on the other hand soy seems to be promising with this brand new device and it seems like they use the hardware better than HTC.. it gives 37.5 FPS on the nenamark2 even with that 720p screen.. but is there any chance that i keep the warranty even after i unlock the bootloader... and what about the sound quality? i know sensation XE was not the best but at leats the sound is clear and there is beats audio.. and "most importantly" will there be any more development? i dont want to buy a device that will be forgotten after 3-4 months...
i know i wrote very long but i decided to ask.. because i have been reading for 3 weeks non-stop and i am more cunfused than i started.. its like android world's nature.. every device has their adventages and disadvanteges on each other.. like a perfect balance and it is really hard to choose sometimes..
^ you can re-locked the bootloader. and here in Indonesia, they (Sony's Service) dont even bother checking the bootloader f it's hardware problems (yellow tints). so i guess it's not an issue, but different country, different policy.
and for development.. SXS has, modded stock roms (2), cm9 and cm10 in development (bug fixing, etc), and official miui. what's more do you want? i prefer this than many development which only modified stock roms, modified miui, modified cm. it's just me though..
actually i prefer one good custom (or stock) rom than lots of roms.. but for example sensation and one x has a camera mod which let them shoot videos with 20Mbps (or 40) and take photos with 0 compression.. and i can tell; lowering the compression value looks like a must for xperia S too.
or you can OC the GPU to get more performance on 3d apps or games.. these are more important than having lots of custom roms in my opinion.. because since ICS came out every custom rom is similar to each other.
what i want to do is generally about unleashing the potential of the hardware.. like in the camera mod example.. i mean, the camera lens is still there but the software uses it much better with a little touch of a good developer..
_delice_doluca_ said:
this is what concers me too.. i started with galaxy s then galaxy s2.. but after that i switched to moto xoom, then galaxy tab 10.1 and then temprorarly galaxy ace.. i used samsung most of the time because of the unlocked bootloaders but i could never get used to the build quality and never got away from the screen burns of the amoled screen..
so my next preference was htc sensation XE.. this was the perfect phone for me definetely.. i had gread develeopment (since it was backed up by original sensation days), great sound quality and somehow quallcomm CPU and GPU was better than the arm based ones... i know the benchmarks say the opposite but i was using my sensation XE at 1.2 Ghz by setcpu and it was still fast enough and it never refused to play any game i thrown at.. but dust got under the screen after a few months and i sold it..
so my next was htc one x and it was a disaster with the greatest screen i have ever seen.. it was a joy to play with it but the problems were unsolveable for daily usage.. and no matter how much i love playing with my phone, messing things most of the time i need it as a ready and steady phone for daily usage.. with that heat, lack of S-off and other problems i sold it too..
so novadays i was looking at the galaxy note or s3 but then i decided to be realistic.. i love playing my games on the consoles and my computer.. so gamewise any phone would handle me because my expectations are low.. what i want is smooth web browsing, very good audio quality to listen lossless music and a good camera to shoot good photos and HD videos (not like a pro camera but at least sharp enough to make the moment freeze forever to remember later).. so i decided to go for nexus.. but then in a store i realised every galaxy phone had screen burns.. i know there are lots of ways to prevent it but still this time i made a promis and have to live with my next phone 1.5 year at least and i dont want to watch my leds die slowly and seperately in front of my eyes everyday..
so i decided to go back to sensation XE.. the most problem-free experience for me.. i care so much about graphic performance.. i think any CPU can handle anything novadays but GPU makes the difference.. so the adreno 220 in sensation XE was more than enough with the help of low-res screen and it was also OCable.. but then i saw a friends xperia s.. that changed everything.. until then i did not even look at any sony device.. not even accidentely..
now i really can not decide.. i have never been into any sony topics before so i am trying to learn but i guess on the development side xperia S is no match for sensation / XE..
so i am kind of scared about the high resolution of the screen.. XE is getting old and has only 768 mb of RAM but it has S-off and lots of developers will keep it as a legacy device.. besides i do not have to worry about warranty since there is S-off...
on the other hand soy seems to be promising with this brand new device and it seems like they use the hardware better than HTC.. it gives 37.5 FPS on the nenamark2 even with that 720p screen.. but is there any chance that i keep the warranty even after i unlock the bootloader... and what about the sound quality? i know sensation XE was not the best but at leats the sound is clear and there is beats audio.. and "most importantly" will there be any more development? i dont want to buy a device that will be forgotten after 3-4 months...
i know i wrote very long but i decided to ask.. because i have been reading for 3 weeks non-stop and i am more cunfused than i started.. its like android world's nature.. every device has their adventages and disadvanteges on each other.. like a perfect balance and it is really hard to choose sometimes..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Go for xperia s ...its actually quiet good
Sent from my LT26i using xda premium
I'm thinking of buying the Xperia U but I have a few questions.
How is the call sound quality, headphone quality and loudspeaker quality like?
How is the screen quality like and how are the graphics like on high end HD games?
Is the browsing very fast on this phone? Does zooming in and out on desktop websites lag a lot?
Has anyone's screen stopped working or has their been any hardware failures that have happened to a lot of xperia u's?
Finally, how long do you think it will be before the phone becomes out of date? I want to use it for maybe 3 years after purchase so I need to know if it is future proof.
Sorry for asking so many questions but I want to be entirely sure the phone is ideal for me. Thanks if you bothered to read this far and double thanks if you answered any of my questions.
In order.
Brilliant,
Brilliant but storage is an issue
Good
Nope
1 year at most.
Press thanks if it helps!
Sent from my Xperia U using Tapatalk 2
Xperia u is worthy buying it...
Now it has jellybean...
Browsing is good/till u dont open too many apps...
U rrquire to clean sum bloatware n ur done...
Its life is good..
As its gpu is mali 400single so dont expect every high end game to work...
Asphlat 7, nfs mw , real racing 3, iron man..
they r working good...
but for 3years dont expext all games to work...
if its ur first android its worty buying it...
becoz 1st android is to discover....
Sent from my ST25i using xda premium
I would recommend you to increase the budget a bit and buy Xperia P instead Xperia U.
Cause 1GB RAM will give you better smoothness than XU's 512 MB RAM.
Also SONY is still keeping XP in their mind while releasing Official updates like JB. [XU have Unofficial JB Port]
No offense to the XU users. It's just what i think that while buying android handset, it's better to go for a better hardware spec. Off course if u plan to increase your budget.
Guy above is right, i still regret buying xperia sola, when i could pay 30 more euros and buy xperia p... It is MUCH better and worth the money... I also think that its developing community is more active than xperia u... No offense of course
Also, u should know that a device like mine it is said that because sony reached the target of sales for this device, now they dont give a damn about it.... We all rely on xda to get jelly bean while xperia P DOES HAVE official jelly bean from sony...
Finally, technology is evolving SO FAST that u need to buy an expensive device so that it can compete with future device... (my opinion)
Does the extra 512MB RAM make a big difference from xperia u to xperia p? The processor and GPU are the same but stuff like screen and camera is better on the xperia p
Trust me, xperia sola with 512 mb of ram barely gives 150mb available, logically xperia p should give u at LEAST 300 mb of free ram...
As far as i know, true gaming devices must have at least 1gb of ram...
Any other comments on the Xperia u? What do you use it for on a daily basis?
If u dont play heavy games then it will do the job BUT IF U:
1) Are sure that 4 gb of storage is not enough (like me). Remember xperia u cannot take sd card...
2) Want to play heavy games, i am pretty sure that xperia p will do better
If u meet either the first or second condition then i urge u to buy xperia p but if u dont then feel free to buy xperia p... My sola is the same as xperia u but i can use an sd card and i must say that since i am not a hard core gamer it does the job pretty damn well
Does the xperia p have a slightly yellow tinted screen? In some videos I have seen the the white looks slightly yellow. Can anyone with an xperia P confirm whether the white is pure white or tinted yellow? Also, after upgrading the firmware to jellybean on Xperia P, do you get various problems with apps such as gallery app not working and does the phone lag or does it get faster? Sorry for all the questions. I just want to be sure before I purchase it
MicroGeek said:
Does the xperia p have a slightly yellow tinted screen? In some videos I have seen the the white looks slightly yellow. Can anyone with an xperia P confirm whether the white is pure white or tinted yellow? Also, after upgrading the firmware to jellybean on Xperia P, do you get various problems with apps such as gallery app not working and does the phone lag or does it get faster? Sorry for all the questions. I just want to be sure before I purchase it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually there is no device exists which is completely error free. You just have to make it right by your self. The situation is quite same for Android Update also. Check the General Section, you will find a thread there named as - Xperia P JB Review.
Many users posted there JB experience there. That should be useful for you. And as for the Yellow Tint, Sony took care of that issue, after first few shipments of all of their models.
Hey guys ! I'm Running rooted and S-off HTC Incredible S. Its okay but outdated now. We are fully up to date in software, but the hardware is behind. Looking for a new phone is so difficult right now..
I have a budget of $300-$400 Aus. Samsung SIII is a little old now, N4 has no storage.. I wandering is Sony a good option? Would you recomend any Sony device in that price range?
Thanks
Sent from my Incredible S using xda premium
MicroGeek said:
I'm thinking of buying the Xperia U but I have a few questions.
How is the call sound quality, headphone quality and loudspeaker quality like?
How is the screen quality like and how are the graphics like on high end HD games?
Is the browsing very fast on this phone? Does zooming in and out on desktop websites lag a lot?
Has anyone's screen stopped working or has their been any hardware failures that have happened to a lot of xperia u's?
Finally, how long do you think it will be before the phone becomes out of date? I want to use it for maybe 3 years after purchase so I need to know if it is future proof.
Sorry for asking so many questions but I want to be entirely sure the phone is ideal for me. Thanks if you bothered to read this far and double thanks if you answered any of my questions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Call sound quality-good
Headphone quality-sounds good , the default headphones aren't good enough u'll surely need to buy a new 1
Loudspeaker-Totally disappointed by the loudspeaker
screen quality-Display is just awesome with 280ppi
Browsing used to lagg when I had too many apps installed..otherwise it works good
No hardware faults as such
Hahahaha there is nothing called as future-proof..U is already outdated,maybe you should go for P instead.
Hello guys,
I recently got enough money for buying a new phone so I looked on the web and I founded the Xperia SP and the S3 and I might think that they should be good for my needness. Well the only thing I personally don't know is which device to choose... I don't know if I should go for more community and bugfree CM11 and a camera but with the "laggy" Touchwiz UI (or at least, many people are saying that) and a slower CPU and GPU or should I go for more speed, more premium materials but for the snappy but ugly Xperias Timescape and a little bit buggy CM11... Well I hope You guys can help me which to decide
The most thing I only do is playing Clash Of Clans, listening to music, use social networks and sometime play Asphalt 8 and ofc, experiment with ROMs
Thanks to everyone
Anyone? Thanks
Why SP? If you go for Xperia ZR, which is almost the same but with 2GB RAM, the choice is almost certainly Xperia ZR, the bugs are rare, and KitKat is officially released to the device. If you don't mind sacrificing the amount of internal storage, that is.
Hello guys,
I recently got enough money for buying a new phone so I looked on the web and I founded the Xperia SP and the S3 and I might think that they should be good for my needness. Well the only thing I personally don't know is which device to choose... I don't know if I should go for more community and bugfree CM11 and a camera but with the "laggy" Touchwiz UI (or at least, many people are saying that) and a slower CPU and GPU or should I go for more speed, more premium materials but for the snappy but ugly Xperias Timescape and a little bit buggy CM11... Well I hope You guys can help me which to decide
The most thing I only do is playing Clash Of Clans, listening to music, use social networks and sometime play Asphalt 8 and ofc, experiment with ROMs
Thanks to everyone
Anyone?
Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk
david19au said:
Anyone?
Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I own both the devices and Xperia SP beats S3 anytime anyday.
Xperia's UI is finesse but the things I like the most about this devices are the Walkman App, urm the ligh bands at the bottom, the way coc runs (Like butter).
The Things i like about S3, AMOLED screen, rest of it, poop!