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Hello everyone,
Getting my G2 tomorrow ad was wondering what's best to do for the initial charge ?
What did you all do and how do you find your battery because of it ?
Cheers James
hi there mate
I did a 3-4 hour charge until the battery was fully charged...the orange led charge thing goes green and its fine then
right now im managing to get a day with heavy use, which is good
Thanks immya
Any other advice please ?
I atcually do the same. But i repeat the process of fully charge and discharge the phone completly about 2-3 times. So the battery gets well trained. I repeat ist about every 2 months. I know it should not be relevant with those new batteries, but i found out it is, and the battery last longer.
jut my 2 cents
Cheers,
Chaos42
it's 2009, just charge it and use it.
when i got mine the battery was ~1/3 full, i charged it till ~2/3, then had to leave and completed the initial charge like two hours later, all works fine, getting somewhat between 4 hours and 3 days of usage.
chaos42 said:
I atcually do the same. But i repeat the process of fully charge and discharge the phone completly about 2-3 times. So the battery gets well trained. I repeat ist about every 2 months. I know it should not be relevant with those new batteries, but i found out it is, and the battery last longer.
jut my 2 cents
Cheers,
Chaos42
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Hey chaos42
What do you mean should not be relevent with the new batteries ?
Is there some sort of new batteries with the newer phones ?
Thanks
James
no, what i meant was what immya just said. that with the modern Li-Ion batteries you should not worry to much about how and when to charge. I just wanted to add that even it is 2009 i observed a far better battery lifecycle and stamina when you try to take care of your batterie. and charge it as decribed. that's my experience. at least for the initial 2-3 charges.
cheers,
chaos42
not that i am trying to discredit you here (in fact i would be very interested in such numbers myself), but did you do any tests or comparable setups to check the difference? because if we are talking about "a feeling" that you have this is IMHO not really relevant data. i would like to see two identical phones in a (at least) similar environment, performing the same tasks the same amount of time a day, and with that getting different runtimes on the battery for a period of a few weeks. these two phones don't need to be heros necessarily, as long as they have the same type of battery and can produce comparable results, but as long as this doesn't happen i myself rely on the tone on li-ion batterys in general. which is (and i am not able to quote or prove this): they are robust in terms of regular charging, and worrying about wearing the batterys in or training them isn't worth the effort. again no discredit here, but as long as no comparison has taken place there is effectively no data to analyze... just too much variables.
jameslfc5 said:
Hey chaos42
What do you mean should not be relevent with the new batteries ?
Is there some sort of new batteries with the newer phones ?
Thanks
James
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NiCad batteries work best when fully discharged before re-charging otherwise you get what is called the memory effect. If you are in the habit of topping up before being fully discharged the better 'remembers' how much you let it drain before charging it and then get's the idea somehow that this is what its capacity is and goes flat at the point that it 'expects' to be recharged.
NiMH batteries are much less prone to memory effect. They are the ones that need the 16 hour first charge then subsequent charges are shorter.
Li-Ion - lithium to its friends - are not supposed to suffer any memory effect at all. You are supposed to be able to top up as and when you want without any detrimental effects.
None of the above batteries will last forever and will need replacing after 2 or 3 years of daily use.
TheBrit said:
NiCad batteries work best when fully discharged before re-charging otherwise you get what is called the memory effect. If you are in the habit of topping up before being fully discharged the better 'remembers' how much you let it drain before charging it and then get's the idea somehow that this is what its capacity is and goes flat at the point that it 'expects' to be recharged.
NiMH batteries are much less prone to memory effect. They are the ones that need the 16 hour first charge then subsequent charges are shorter.
Li-Ion - lithium to its friends - are not supposed to suffer any memory effect at all. You are supposed to be able to top up as and when you want without any detrimental effects.
None of the above batteries will last forever and will need replacing after 2 or 3 years of daily use.
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Absolutely spot on!
These days batteries do not require dishcharging fully before recharging. Even if the person in the phone shop says "ensure you charge it for 12-14 hours before you use it", this doesn't matter - once the battery is fully charged, it stops charging itself anyway - even if you leave it plugged into a charger!
Same as what's being said already.
To add, it's even better to keep your lithium battery topped. Fully discharging them is actually bad for a lithium battery. Full discharge and heat is what's bad for a lithium battery.
For a nice reference, check this: http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/lithium-ion-battery.htm
(the life and death part is what might interest you)
On a more interesting note. A long long time ago I got a MDA Compact aka Qtek s100. And there was a lot of debate here on the forums about the initial charge. In the manual it was stated that you should charge it for like 12 hours or something the first time. Then people obviously also said that was bull, because it had a lithium battery.
But! As for WM2003 it didn't save it's whole registry etc on the ROM but in the RAM. Once the battery was dead, bang! hard reset right there.
So they included a little NiMH battery in the s100 that would keep the RAM 'alive'. And that was the reason it needed such a long first charge, for the NiMH cell.
And for some reason a lot of manufacturers take an 'old' manual text for the first charge of a battery. Although that doesn't happen that often anymore. Especially in the beginning a lot of instructions of how to use a lithium battery were just plain wrong. And they put NiMH or even NiCad instruction in there!
Edit, some instructions as found here (http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm). Talks about laptops, but it's the same nonetheless.
Avoid frequent full discharges because this puts additional strain on the battery. Several partial discharges with frequent recharges are better for lithium-ion than one deep one. Recharging a partially charged lithium-ion does not cause harm because there is no memory. (In this respect, lithium-ion differs from nickel-based batteries.) Short battery life in a laptop is mainly cause by heat rather than charge / discharge patterns.
Batteries with fuel gauge (laptops) should be calibrated by applying a deliberate full discharge once every 30 charges. Running the pack down in the equipment does this. If ignored, the fuel gauge will become increasingly less accurate and in some cases cut off the device prematurely.
Keep the lithium-ion battery cool. Avoid a hot car. For prolonged storage, keep the battery at a 40% charge level.
Consider removing the battery from a laptop when running on fixed power. (Some laptop manufacturers are concerned about dust and moisture accumulating inside the battery casing.)
Avoid purchasing spare lithium-ion batteries for later use. Observe manufacturing dates. Do not buy old stock, even if sold at clearance prices.
If you have a spare lithium-ion battery, use one to the fullest and keep the other cool by placing it in the refrigerator. Do not freeze the battery. For best results, store the battery at 40% state-of-charge.
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So I have had mine sitting here all packaged up since tuesday.
And im looking to now actually open it and play with it,
Do you recommend I charge to full when off, or on? Perhaps run it dry and then charge it up?
You used to be told, Charge it for 8 hours before you use it...
That surely can't be true of todays rechargeable battery technology?
[Q] charging and battery damage
If I leave my touchpad on the touchstone charger for long periods and the touchpad is switched on will this damage the battery?
I know I have had laptops and always ran them of the mains and the battery has stopped holding a charge.
Cheers.
I assume that the touchpad has a charging circuit that stops it charging when the battery is full, but batteries will always fail after a while regardless. Lithium batteries are best charged often and not let run down too much in between.
Also, dson't let a lithium battery run down completely, you can significantly shorten its life doing that.
Troute said:
Also, dson't let a lithium battery run down completely, you can significantly shorten its life doing that.
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source? I thought lithium battery had no memory.
It's not a memory issue, running a lithium battery flat (deep discharging) has a physical effect on it where it will lose it's ability to recharge to as high a level as the previous charge. Each time this happens the battery loses more of it's ability to reach an effective voltage.
Don't take my word for it, do your own research, there's plenty of information out there it internet land.
alexhayuk said:
If I leave my touchpad on the touchstone charger for long periods and the touchpad is switched on will this damage the battery?
I know I have had laptops and always ran them of the mains and the battery has stopped holding a charge.
Cheers.
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The dev for Dr.battery's has a thread that states that leaving your Touchpad on the touchstone for long periods of time should not impact the battery. Due to it switching to powering the unit after its charged. Though he is doing some testing on that. Also his app should be updated soon for the Touchpad (available through preware). I am still going to contact HP to discuss this as well. I would hate to damage a non replaceable battery. Will update if I have any new info.
Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using xda premium
Troute said:
It's not a memory issue, running a lithium battery flat (deep discharging) has a physical effect on it where it will lose it's ability to recharge to as high a level as the previous charge. Each time this happens the battery loses more of it's ability to reach an effective voltage.
Don't take my word for it, do your own research, there's plenty of information out there it internet land.
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I have done my own research. That's why i don't think this is accurate.
If you have some proof please share.
Besides common aging, a Li-ion battery can also fail because of undercharge. This occurs if a Li-ion pack is stored in a discharged condition. Self-discharge gradually lowers the voltage of the already discharged battery and the protection circuit cuts off between 2.20 and 2.90V/cell.
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http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Basically through normal use you can probably expect around 250-300 full charge cycles (partial charges only count as partial and add up with other partial charges to be a full cycle) in an average battery pack before it has degraded to 80% of it's original capacity. I don't see anything that point to full discharges being damaging. However storing it for longer periods of time fully discharged can affect life.
ambivalent-one I think the figure of 250-300 charge cycles you've pulled from that page refer to deep discharge cycle tests done by them, personally I'd be very unhappy with that kind of lifespan in a battery in regular usage. The same page you've posted http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries shows a chart of charge cycles versus depth of discharge.
Table 2: Cycle life and depth of discharge
A partial discharge reduces stress and prolongs battery life. Elevated temperature and high currents also affect cycle life.
Charges - Depth of Discharge
500 - 100% DoD
1500 - 50% DoD
2500 - 25% DoD
4700 - 10% DoD
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As you can see a L-ion battery can be made to last nearly ten times longer by keeping the charge level up near max.
Quote from http://www.batterieswholesale.com/damaging_batteries.htm
The Li-Ion cell should never be allowed to drop below about 2.4V, or an internal chemical reaction will occur where one of the battery electrodes can oxidize (corrode) through a process which can not be reversed by recharging. If this occurs, battery capacity will be lost (and the cell may be completely destroyed)
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karan1203 if you reckon the information about deep discharge not accurate, can you provide the results of your own research that shows this?
Just let it die the first time, then charge when under 5%.
karan1203 said:
I have done my own research. That's why i don't think this is accurate.
If you have some proof please share.
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Your research must've been incredibly basic in that case. The 2nd result I get when Googling "lithium batteries" gives me the wikipedia page which has a small amount of into on it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery
Look at the "Safety requirements" section for a start.
Also Google "lithium batteries discharge" returns some useful links.
There seems to be a debate on this topic as to whether you should do a FULL drain on your battery and I wanted to know what people's thoughts were on this in this forum.
I've used my phone twice now to the point where it has auto powered down on it's own. I will then hit the 'Power' button to ensure that battery is truly at 0% (the capacitative buttons blink for a second to confirm that I've hit the power button but there is no more juice left to turn the phone on).
I will plug into the wall charger and allow it to charge for 4 hours (usually around 4 hours, I'll check back to see and hit the power button and the onscreen battery display will show 100% charged).
I will unplug my phone, power on and keep using until the phone fully drains and powers off on it's own again before repeating this cycle.
However, others have stated that this is NOT necessary for Lithium Ion battery and can actually damage the circuitry of the battery? I've always been under the impression that you need to do a complete & full battery drain for lithium ion batteries at least 3 -5 full cycles/times before the battery has been conditioned/optimized for capacity.
Maybe I'm wrong...after all I'm coming from a G1 and this practice helped my atrocious battery life on that dinosaur!
If this is wrong, when should I be plugging my phone back in to charge? When it gives me the first warning to charge in (battery level turns orange - I assume this about 20% battery left) or on the "critical" battery warning when the battery icon in the notification panel turns red (assuming this is about 10% battery left)?
from what I've read in the past, letting your phone drain completely down until it shuts itself off is not good for the battery. I could be wrong but thats what I've read
nyydynasty said:
from what I've read in the past, letting your phone drain completely down until it shuts itself off is not good for the battery. I could be wrong but thats what I've read
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Yeah, I've heard both sides and I've conditioned my battery for the G1 because it seemed to drain faster if I plugged it into charge when there was 30% or so still left.
Well, I've done two complete cycles so I guess I'll just try recharging when it hits the red mark next time.
When you plug in to charge? Orange, red or whenever to top off?
i plug my phone in when i go to bed. I dont care what the battery is at. I also charge it while i'm at work so when I leave, its around 90-100%. My battery rarely reaches red.
nyydynasty said:
i plug my phone in when i go to bed. I dont care what the battery is at. I also charge it while i'm at work so when I leave, its around 90-100%. My battery rarely reaches red.
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LOL - that would prematurely killed my battery capacity on the G1! I went thru two batteries before I started draining all the way down. Made a difference between 4-6 hours and 6-10 hours.
Seems like this phone doesn't need to do that tho.
But what're you getting on average for battery life and display on time then?
nyydynasty said:
i plug my phone in when i go to bed. I dont care what the battery is at. I also charge it while i'm at work so when I leave, its around 90-100%. My battery rarely reaches red.
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I do the exact same thing. First with my Captivate and now with the SGS2 and the battery life on my captivate held pretty much exactly the same charge for the entire 15 months I used it. The battery on this SGS2 seems to last about 150-175% of the Captivate battery under the same conditions. I just came back from a week on the road where I spent 9-12 hours a day away from a charger and was using my phone constantly all day long and would get back to the hotel room with 30-40% battery left. Considering I was listening to music, playing plants vs zombies and sending and reading push email constantly throughout the day I am very satisfied with the battery life on this phone. I've never done any kind of conditioning or special battery maintenance.
DefTaker said:
LOL - that would prematurely killed my battery capacity on the G1! I went thru two batteries before I started draining all the way down. Made a difference between 4-6 hours and 6-10 hours.
Seems like this phone doesn't need to do that tho.
But what're you getting on average for battery life and display on time then?
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i stopped looking at my battery stats a long time ago. I'll peak in there once in a while but I dont really care what the stats show because I'm always around a charger. As long as I get through 12 hours or so without charging, i'm happy.
Some devices need a full drain cycle to properly calibrate the fuel gauge - ours does NOT.
Lithium ion batteries don't like deep discharging - in fact discharging them too much will permanently damage them (fortunately, all batteries sold to end users have built-in protection chips to prevent overdischarge - but do you REALLY want to rely on that chip?)
Similarly, they don't like charge being forced into them - so don't "bump charge". (Bump charging is removing and immediately reinserting the charger when the phone says charging is complete.)
For long-term storage, store them at around 50% capacity if not being used. LiIons that are stored at 100% charge lose capacity MUCH faster than ones stored at 50%.
A Li-Ion that has been sitting for a long time (months...) will develop a passivation layer that can be detrimental to performance - a few charge/discharge cycles will fix this. You don't need to do a full discharge/recharge - probably even from 90 to 70 and back up a few times should be fine.
Entropy512 said:
Some devices need a full drain cycle to properly calibrate the fuel gauge - ours does NOT.
Lithium ion batteries don't like deep discharging - in fact discharging them too much will permanently damage them (fortunately, all batteries sold to end users have built-in protection chips to prevent overdischarge - but do you REALLY want to rely on that chip?)
Similarly, they don't like charge being forced into them - so don't "bump charge". (Bump charging is removing and immediately reinserting the charger when the phone says charging is complete.)
For long-term storage, store them at around 50% capacity if not being used. LiIons that are stored at 100% charge lose capacity MUCH faster than ones stored at 50%.
A Li-Ion that has been sitting for a long time (months...) will develop a passivation layer that can be detrimental to performance - a few charge/discharge cycles will fix this. You don't need to do a full discharge/recharge - probably even from 90 to 70 and back up a few times should be fine.
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what about short charging during the course of the day? For instance, while I'm at work, I like to plug it in for a bit and then use it off the charger. Then before I leave, I charge it again for a bit. Do you think thats okay to charge the phone for short ~1 hour bursts?
No, the battery itself doesn't do well with deep discharges, but every device with one has circuitry to manage this and keep it from happening. The phone will shut off before the battery reaches a critically low discharge state. Just as it will cease charging before it blows up. Just because the phone shuts off does not mean that the battery is too low.
Assuming the phone has the proper cutoffs, it's not really any different to do two discharges to 50% or one to 100%. There have been studies that say leaving it on a charger is bad, doing two 50% cycles is worse than one 100%, etc. I've always just trusted that the phone manufacturers design the battery monitor and control circuits correctly and not worry much about it. And I've never had to replace a battery yet and always get acceptable life.
It's lithium ion, not nickel cadmium.
Full drains are bad for lithium ion.
Sent from my SGS II
nyydynasty said:
what about short charging during the course of the day? For instance, while I'm at work, I like to plug it in for a bit and then use it off the charger. Then before I leave, I charge it again for a bit. Do you think thats okay to charge the phone for short ~1 hour bursts?
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That's the best way to charge it.
Sent from my SGS II
MikeyMike01 said:
That's the best way to charge it.
Sent from my SGS II
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that makes me even more glad that its what I've been doing forever - lol
thanks
lithium ion batteries dont like being under 30%. and they also dont do well if they are kept at 80 percent or above all the time. for longest battery life don't just let it sit on the charger all day after it fully charges.
I agree with Mikey here.
Also, batteries take charging current better (less wear) at lower states of charge. That's why I put a variable-current charging algorithm into my Infuse kernels (charginghacks branch on github)
800 mA at low voltages (200 above stock), dropping to 550 near the end (50 below stock).
Unfortunately, charginghacks is likely not going to be possible with our hardware. One of the differences between the I9100 and I777 is a different battery charger circuit - ours is far less flexible.
Entropy512 said:
I agree with Mikey here.
Also, batteries take charging current better (less wear) at lower states of charge. That's why I put a variable-current charging algorithm into my Infuse kernels (charginghacks branch on github)
800 mA at low voltages (200 above stock), dropping to 550 near the end (50 below stock).
Unfortunately, charginghacks is likely not going to be possible with our hardware. One of the differences between the I9100 and I777 is a different battery charger circuit - ours is far less flexible.
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This phone actually charges with the screen on though, so it's not like the Infuse where the battery would drain with the screen on and the phone charging.
MikeyMike01 said:
This phone actually charges with the screen on though, so it's not like the Infuse where the battery would drain with the screen on and the phone charging.
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Infuse would charge with the screen on - but not if the screen was on AND the CPU was cranking.
(worst-case was navigation at full brightness - and I've seen reports that the I9100 also has the same problem.)
Entropy512 said:
Infuse would charge with the screen on - but not if the screen was on AND the CPU was cranking.
(worst-case was navigation at full brightness - and I've seen reports that the I9100 also has the same problem.)
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When web browsing, playing a game, or other general use late at night I'd plug the Infuse into the charger. It would still drain. Doing the same on the SGS II and it at the very least maintains it's battery level, so it's a drastic improvement over the Infuse.
Is it better to charge them separately?
From what I heard, the dock charges the Tablet. So if I charged with the two connected, the dock would charge, and it would in turn charge the Tablet...sounds kind of inefficient to me, and maybe even bad?
I usually charge my TF101 tablet from it's dock and have done so since September, perfectly fine and no negative impact on the battery. Just don't make a habbit of burning the batteries too low, like 1% before you charge.
My dock does drain a little faster after having gone through a bunch of heavy discharges but that's why I usually charge before I get to like 3% .
Spidey01 said:
I usually charge my TF101 tablet from it's dock and have done so since September, perfectly fine and no negative impact on the battery. Just don't make a habbit of burning the batteries too low, like 1% before you charge.
My dock does drain a little faster after having gone through a bunch of heavy discharges but that's why I usually charge before I get to like 3% .
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That's odd since it is recommended that you run the batteries down before charging them instead of putting it on the charger before it gets below 10%. Charging them without running the power down has a negative effect on the amount of charge it can hold.
That is not required anymore.The ideal charge level for these batteries is about 40%.
Charge cycles aren't a problem either so discharge is required once a month or even more.
These devices use LiPo and Co batteries.
For these, it is recommended NOT to fully let the battery discharge (unlike older batteries with memory effect).
It is however recommended to fully charge then fully discharge your battery ONCE when you first use it on order to calibrate the battery (ie: let the software learn what level means full and what level means empty)
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
eraursls1984 said:
That's odd since it is recommended that you run the batteries down before charging them instead of putting it on the charger before it gets below 10%. Charging them without running the power down has a negative effect on the amount of charge it can hold.
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You can check the link in my Sig. there is some info on recent batteries and calibration.
Yup, running it till it shuts off is mainly to calibrate the battery gauge. Most Lion batteries have auto shutoffs built into them to prevent discharging past the point of no return (which is why ebay batteries are so cheap, usually they lack this and other features, like temp sensors to kill the device before it melts)
As to charging both devices, i dont see how charging each together would harm anything aside from running more power through the dock might eventually wear it out? Honestly i dont think you have anything to worry about XD
But I can see the dock being discharged to zero so often. So far it has happened 4 times without me even knowing it since its often connected to the tablet. I wish there was a way to use the dock and disable the charging to the tablet.
Its better to have a few full discharge n full charge cycle for any new battery operated product to maximize the new battery capacity after a few cycles it will reach its peak capacity.
iceman127 said:
Its better to have a few full discharge n full charge cycle for any new battery operated product to maximize the new battery capacity after a few cycles it will reach its peak capacity.
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But I'm sure on many occasions just by the usage and nature of the dock that it will end up being drained to 0% quite often. I don't think my dock battery will survive too long -.-
OK, first of all, we all know that the S6 has NEVER been known for being a battery life champion. BUT, here's the problem .....
Battery reports relatively consistent decline in charge over time, until it gets down to 1%. At that point, the device still has sufficient charge to run for about one hour with the display on and set at full brightness.
Same on Stock Nougat, L.O.S 14 and L.O.S. 16. Same after full factory re-sets on all three. Same on pull and re-connect battery, which is a factory-new Samsung replacement for the original (not the 7 edge mod)
OBVIOUSLY, there is something not quite right about battery capacity reporting here.
Suggestions?
nezlek said:
OBVIOUSLY, there is something not quite right about battery capacity reporting here.
Suggestions?
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Ion Lithium batteries do not like to be completely discharged, to my knowledge ideally they should always be operated between 20% and 80% of their capacity.
Some laptop's do shut-down them selves when battery reaches 5% to safe guard the battery health.
So, yes, 1% reported by the battery does not actually include the "reserve" charge to prevent damages and, unless you really have to, do not use you phone with battery below 10% and charge it !
Under normal circumstances
enryfox said:
Ion Lithium batteries do not like to be completely discharged, to my knowledge ideally they should always be operated between 20% and 80% of their capacity.
Some laptop's do shut-down them selves when battery reaches 5% to safe guard the battery health.
So, yes, 1% reported by the battery does not actually include the "reserve" charge to prevent damages and, unless you really have to, do not use you phone with battery below 10% and charge it !
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Under normal circumstances, yes, definitely, keeping it between 30% and 80% is ideal, but when the goal is to accurately calibrate the battery / charging monitor circuitry, more accurate results are to be obtained by running the device to the point of battery exhaustion, at which point the reserve capacity designed into all lithium batteries still remains. But this is NOT something to think about doing on a daily basis. An S6 or S6 edge first run to the point of shutdown will actually re-boot but shut down just about immediately thereafter - iterations are not advised. You want it to have just enough left to get it to re-boot and stay running while charging, at which point you can monitor the recharge . Check out the data from Battery University or the support pages for Accu Battery for more details. Trying to use up the built-in safety margin is a fool's errand, and if you've ever seen a mishandled lithium cell turn a vivid red while the device in question melts around it, it should give you a healthy respect (if for some reason you did not have it in the first place) for not messing with or even attempting to mess with the reserve. The problem here is that the "1%" remaining on the charge meter (which is above, beyond, and independent of the untouchable reserve) actually appears to represent about 15% of the rated capacity of the battery, or in this case, over an hour of screen-on run time, and by never running that out, a current-flow-based app like Accu Battery will invariably under-report capacity going forward as a result. Such apps measure how much current is drawn to get from 'x' percent to 'y' percent being reported, but when the amount of current draw to get from 1% to zero is a range of around 300 mAh, for a battery nominally rated at 2,550 (for an S6) or 2,600 (for a S6 edge) as the total capacity, the problem of how accurate the "1%" figure is should be kind of self-evident. I am not willing to see how low a "0%" capacity report can be pushed down. Sanity has to rear its ugly little head at some point, after all.
Many alternative kernels, etc.. claim to address this problem, but I have yet to find one that actually does the job. It is rumored that Samsung service facilities can do a complete reset of the capacity reporting capability, but who knows? Maybe the luck of the draw gave me a dud battery from Samsung as the replacement. :crying: