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This might be a stupid question to ask from a this type of community but the Chinese knock-offs or the endgadget term 'KIRF' phones
The sciphone N19
The sciphone N21
Aphone A6
Are these really android?
and if so arnt they upgradable to, for instance Android 2.0
and cant they be flashed with roms from other devices? (I'm kind of new to this and I dont really know what a 'rom' is, yet!)
Their only imitations. Which means the hardware inside is different. So you won't be able to flash a ROM designed for a G1 for example since the imitation and the G1 have different hardware (drivers)....
You might be able to install an updated android system assuming it's not a lookalike system, for example a regular Nokia OS with it's "Face Painted" to look like android lol. Also remember, the hardware inside it probably bare minimum to just run what it came with....
the video
but this looks pretty convincing that its android, isn't it?
kurt.hewett said:
but this looks pretty convincing that its android, isn't it?
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It might actually be android. You probably won't be able to use the custom roms you find here because of hardware differences but it looks like it's running an actual android system. Remember android is Open Source so it's even easier/cheaper for the Chinese to do this, lol...
i wouldnt buy any of these phones...not even for 50€
> i wouldnt buy any of these phones...not even for 50€
From what I've seen, an Android phone intended for the Chinese domestic market...
* Would be "rooted out of the box". They wouldn't even bother to try protecting it.
* Would be electronically compatible with two dozen other Chinese domestic Android phones. They might have different button layouts, screen sizes, batteries, and build quality, but the biggest single thing driving their firmware would be the manufacturer's ability to slap one of Google's reference builds into it more or less verbatim.
* Would put most American and European phones to shame insofar as aesthetics go. Cheap Chinese stuff might have nonexistent build quality, but even the lowest-quality crap to come out of an anonymous factory somewhere in Harbin or Chonggqing is going to look attractive, if not downright cool.
* Almost without a doubt, would be the most feature-packed ghetto-fabulous phone you could pull out of your pocket anywhere in America. Nothing on the phone might work reliably (or for more than 3 months before breaking), but if there's a feature you can pack into a phone... it'll be there.
* If you were fluent in Mandarin or Cantonese, and stumbled across one in China, it would probably be so cheap, you could buy two spares for less than it would cost to insure a PDA phone for a year and pay one replacement deductible for any carrier in the US.
Speaking of which... check out dealextreme.com if you want to see some crazy stuff you can buy directly from China. I've bought about a hundred bucks worth of stuff from them over the past year, and I've grown to be rather fond of them. They have a ton of phones I've never really looked at too closely since none of the phones they sell will ever work on Sprint, but they might have something Android-ready if you're in Europe or can live with EDGE-only in the US (I seriously doubt any phone sold in China today can do 1700/2200 or 850/850 UMTS). I'm still laughing about their "iFhone" models, or the phone running some unknown OS (probably some flavor of LiMo) that looks like A brown European Hero... or the "NOKLA N95"
mrandroid said:
It might actually be android. You probably won't be able to use the custom roms you find here because of hardware differences but it looks like it's running an actual android system. Remember android is Open Source so it's even easier/cheaper for the Chinese to do this, lol...
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They are real Android, period. We can make any kind of WM/Android GSM mobiles under USD$100! Just figure out how much HTC gain on you guys!
miamicanes said:
> i wouldnt buy any of these phones...not even for 50€
From what I've seen, an Android phone intended for the Chinese domestic market...
* Would be "rooted out of the box". They wouldn't even bother to try protecting it.
* Would be electronically compatible with two dozen other Chinese domestic Android phones. They might have different button layouts, screen sizes, batteries, and build quality, but the biggest single thing driving their firmware would be the manufacturer's ability to slap one of Google's reference builds into it more or less verbatim.
* Would put most American and European phones to shame insofar as aesthetics go. Cheap Chinese stuff might have nonexistent build quality, but even the lowest-quality crap to come out of an anonymous factory somewhere in Harbin or Chonggqing is going to look attractive, if not downright cool.
* Almost without a doubt, would be the most feature-packed ghetto-fabulous phone you could pull out of your pocket anywhere in America. Nothing on the phone might work reliably (or for more than 3 months before breaking), but if there's a feature you can pack into a phone... it'll be there.
* If you were fluent in Mandarin or Cantonese, and stumbled across one in China, it would probably be so cheap, you could buy two spares for less than it would cost to insure a PDA phone for a year and pay one replacement deductible for any carrier in the US.
Speaking of which... check out dealextreme.com if you want to see some crazy stuff you can buy directly from China. I've bought about a hundred bucks worth of stuff from them over the past year, and I've grown to be rather fond of them. They have a ton of phones I've never really looked at too closely since none of the phones they sell will ever work on Sprint, but they might have something Android-ready if you're in Europe or can live with EDGE-only in the US (I seriously doubt any phone sold in China today can do 1700/2200 or 850/850 UMTS). I'm still laughing about their "iFhone" models, or the phone running some unknown OS (probably some flavor of LiMo) that looks like A brown European Hero... or the "NOKLA N95"
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Click to collapse
Don't be stupid! I am currently providing one of your "so -call" Cheap craps Android to a French operator! 15k each month. Let me tell u one thing, there is something called CE standard, or FCC in the US; ROSH.....etc. As long as our product passes those test in the lab, we have international standard certificates. I can also answer your doubts on the UTMS question. There is something called electronic IC chipset which send/recieve UTMS signals; furthermore, we do not have to invent it as Americans/Europeans gave it to us because they beg for our RMB. I think Huawei is at least 5 time the size of HTC, right? Moreover, most of the current WCDMA/HSDPA/HSUPA base station equiptment is provied by Huawei worldwide! Android, which google gave Huawei for FREE because google wished Huawei to modify their Hisilicon smartphone(hardware) platform to use it instead of Windows Mobile; and the Hisilicon platform supports both OS on the same PCBA. We are a small firm, and we are current selling more than 250k smartphones per year, let alone those mega size manufactures!
As long as someone has money, products/technology would look for them to buy or invest. Americans, just keep your tunnel vision; that answers why our country is more and more wealthly and yours could only loan to pay-up depts. I am waiting for your bankruptcy!
P.S. I have never done a deal to sell to the U.S. not due to our own quality, just because Americans have no money but big-mouths!
P.S. Your unknown OS is called MTK platform(Mediatek), which partly owned by Foxconn; captures more than 65% of world wide GSM market in 2009! Samsung and LG are both their customers on the dual sim models! MTK will launch their smartphone platform on Android/WM this quarter!
So if China is so wonderful, when are you guys going to invent something original instead of just using your near-slave labor to put out cheap copies of American and European inventions? Something new and original that doesn't "borrow", abuse, or our right steal the intellectual property of the West?
Just curious.
calm down guys. seriously. this isn't the right place for any kind of political debate.
Talking about phones... there are a couple of reasons why chinese phones are cheaper. one of the main reasons: the development costs are much lower. most chinese phones are knock-offs, they don't have to pay any fancy designer and reverse engeneering requires less ressources than actual inventing and developing. in addition to that work simply is much cheaper in china as you probably know.
there is something called CE standard
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c'mon. passing the CE tests is nothing to be proud of. 79cent plastic toys have CE-logos.
fabsn said:
calm down guys. seriously. this isn't the right place for any kind of political debate.
Talking about phones... there are a couple of reasons why chinese phones are cheaper. one of the main reasons: the development costs are much lower. most chinese phones are knock-offs, they don't have to pay any fancy designer and reverse engeneering requires less ressources than actual inventing and developing. in addition to that work simply is much cheaper in china as you probably know.
c'mon. passing the CE tests is nothing to be proud of. 79cent plastic toys have CE-logos.
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CE standards required diffenent tests on each cataglory; u cannont compare toys with mobile. It tests radio performance, like GSM, WIFI, bluetooth; how many working hours can the components last, or testing material whether they are harmful to human body.
Gatecrasher R/T said:
So if China is so wonderful, when are you guys going to invent something original instead of just using your near-slave labor to put out cheap copies of American and European inventions? Something new and original that doesn't "borrow", abuse, or our right steal the intellectual property of the West?
Just curious.
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1 mobile with dual SIM stand-by was invented by Chinese; It captures more than 40% of the current GSM market. Once again, our so-called cheap phones captures more than 65% of the market in 2009! Way more than the combine figures of Nokia, Samsung, SE, LG and Moto. Oh, I forgot.....Moto asked Foxconn and TCL to O.D.M mobile products for them. Is this one kind of the West's own invention?? Invention needs MONEY, that's why the West beg for our RMB and pass the technology to us.
We are now developing dual SIMs Windows Mobile, probably be launched late 2nd Quarter! Did u play with any of these before? Give a try then!
Sciphone N21 is apparently the same as DSTL search here for roms.
Sciphone N19 (the one i got few weeks ago) doesn't seem to be a replica of some other known phone. It runs android 1.5 out of the box, has unusual filesystem structure and I haven't found a way to recover (in case i brick it) with upgrade, therefore I won't be attempting upgrade to 1.6 or 2.0.1. 'official' site doesn't seem to mention existence or intention on publishing upgrades.
Android Market doesn't exist as app, out of the box, but there are some ways around it. (eg get Android Market for SDK -- as per some posts on this forum) then dig out apps to put on Sciphone N19. Once I collect everything required for a 'patch' I'll post.
Resolution on N19 is weird -- QVGA, not the usual HVGA, so a lot of the apps off Android Market that are written poorly for a fixed rez don't scale, and are not usable.
I'm not sure about other phones you were asking about.
What I was waiting for
xulture said:
Sciphone N21 is apparently the same as DSTL search here for roms.
Sciphone N19 (the one i got few weeks ago) doesn't seem to be a replica of some other known phone. It runs android 1.5 out of the box, has unusual filesystem structure and I haven't found a way to recover (in case i brick it) with upgrade, therefore I won't be attempting upgrade to 1.6 or 2.0.1. 'official' site doesn't seem to mention existence or intention on publishing upgrades.
Android Market doesn't exist as app, out of the box, but there are some ways around it. (eg get Android Market for SDK -- as per some posts on this forum) then dig out apps to put on Sciphone N19. Once I collect everything required for a 'patch' I'll post.
Resolution on N19 is weird -- QVGA, not the usual HVGA, so a lot of the apps off Android Market that are written poorly for a fixed rez don't scale, and are not usable.
I'm not sure about other phones you were asking about.
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that was what I was waiting for, (not the debate which phone is better nor which economy )
btw what is the official site you were talking abt?
the box came with www.mysciphone.com written on it.. That site seems to be the most official ;-) I can't seem to register for their forums though. Other models they have for sale are android and iphone look-alikes. I don't know much about iphones. But the N19 and N21 actually come with proper Android.
The N21 does actually take my interest. 0.6ghz? check. 2 SD card slots? check. Android 1.5 Cupcake? Meh, but never mind. 5mp camera? Sweet. Under £100? You bet.
And don't knock the Chinese. Remember, they had their enlightenment while we were still stuck in the dark ages, and if you really think about it, they have been exporting their technologies to us since time immemorial.
Yeah, they're cheap knock offs, but they're aimed at their domestic market. The stuff they do for our market, Google and HTC have commissioned, like the Nexus One for example (and yes, I would bet my last pound that it was manufactured in China).
And I bet there are loads of Chinese Android hackers who, if only we could communicate with them, could show us a thing or two about rooting and modding Androids (and possibly give us the rooting kits to these phones as well).
Phil.
pbrennan42 said:
The N21 does actually take my interest. 0.6ghz? check. 2 SD card slots? check. Android 1.5 Cupcake? Meh, but never mind. 5mp camera? Sweet. Under £100? You bet.
And don't knock the Chinese. Remember, they had their enlightenment while we were still stuck in the dark ages, and if you really think about it, they have been exporting their technologies to us since time immemorial.
Yeah, they're cheap knock offs, but they're aimed at their domestic market. The stuff they do for our market, Google and HTC have commissioned, like the Nexus One for example (and yes, I would bet my last pound that it was manufactured in China).
And I bet there are loads of Chinese Android hackers who, if only we could communicate with them, could show us a thing or two about rooting and modding Androids (and possibly give us the rooting kits to these phones as well).
Phil.
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Click to collapse
i think the product that u r waiting for shares the same solution or PCBA with this: http://www.jetsun.net.cn/ProductShow.asp?ID=116
There is another version that runs on CDMA EVDO(CDMA 1X) network. They should be selling at around USD$180. For the rooting kits, you need to make sure the chipset solution is the same; otherwise it won't work. For example, the tool on Hisilicon platform doesn't work with Marvell even they both runs Andriod 1.5. Even so, still a lot of work needed to be done as u need to migrate the LCD drivers, TP driver, camera driver.....etc.
Once again, Androids or WM6.5 do not need to hack. Google/Microsoft pass their solutions/designs to chipset makers; Androids or WM6.5 then can run on that specific PCBA design. We will get an example and BOM list of that design when we purchase the chipset with RMB or USD. IT IS COMPLETELY LEGAL because this is called "technology transfer". In fact, those chipset makers are pulling all stops to help us to develop our own product. BECAUSE THEY WANT SALES AND $$$! Just that simple!
P.S. I don't know whether you guys have ever heard of Marvell....It is listed on Nasdaq, and bought Intel's Xscale(Mobile CPUs) division back in 2005. Marvell currently supplies : Alcatel、Arima、Asus、Cisco Systems、Compal、D-Link、ECS Elitegroup、Ericsson、Fujitsu、Gateway、Gigabyte Technology、Hewlett Packard、Hitachi、Huawei、Intel、Inventec、LG、Linksys、Lucent Technologies、Motorola、MSI、NEC、NETGEAR、Nokia、Nortel Networks、Panasonic、Sharp、Sony、Quanta Computer、RIM、Samsung、Seagate、Toshiba、VTech、Western Digital。
I just want to clarify something: for the most part, I like, and enthusiastically approve, of most Chinese electronics goods. If you re-read my post, most of it is actually a compliment. One area where Chinese companies have American and European companies beaten badly is aesthetic design. Chinese companies place a very high importance on making things look nice. American companies, by comparison, regard beauty as the first thing to kill when cutting costs.
Just to give a semi-related example, last year I was shopping for new laminate flooring for my house. As anyone who's been to Home Depot or Lowe's knows, American and European laminate flooring generally looks *awful*. You can tell from 20 feet away that it's fake. On the other hand, high end laminate flooring from China (intended mainly for sale in China, but occasionally ends up for sale from small companies in big cities like Miami & New York) will blow you away. You'd literally have to get on your hands & knees, with a flashlight and magnifying glass, to know for sure that it isn't real wood.
Why don't American companies, like Home Depot, sell it? They make higher profit margins selling engineered hardwood. If they sold laminate for half the price that looked 99% as good as the best hardwood, nobody would bother with engineered hardwood. That's why the only place you can buy it in America is from small businesses that literally buy a few shipping containers of it, then sell it straight from their warehouse. The 60c/foot laminate from China is just as awful as the 99c/foot laminate from WilsonArt or Pergo... but the $3-4/foot laminate from China is amazingly good.
As far as my statement that the phones wouldn't be able to work on Sprint or Verizon, and wouldn't be able to use 3G data on GSM, I maintain that it's almost certainly true *right now*. It's not because the Chinese phones are low quality or less advanced. It's due to an unfortunate combination of politics and the business practices of American cell phone carriers.
As far as I know, the United States is the only country on Earth where UMTS operates at 850MHz/850MHz (AT&T) or 1700/2200MHz (T-Mobile). OK, Canada & Mexico might use the same frequencies, but it's still a very small subset of the world market. More importantly, T-Mobile didn't even OWN those frequencies until ~3 years ago, and didn't deploy its first 1700/2200 UMTS cell for customer use until ~2 years ago. In most parts of the country, they're still in the process of deploying it, and WILL be for at least a few more years.
The FCC isn't happy about it, but it WILL tolerate the use of imported cell phones that are approved by some other government agency it respects (including those of Europe, Japan, and Canada). The problem is, THOSE foreign agencies will only certify and approve frequencies relevant to their own countries. Since 1700/2200 are irrelevant to use in their countries, they won't certify it (even if they DO certify the same phone for 1900/2100UMTS). Right now, the FCC is pretty much the only government agency that will certify a phone for 1700/2200 operation, and getting FCC approval costs about $100,000. Because it's so expensive, and because the only market where it matters is the US, NOBODY -- Chinese, Finnish, Korean, or otherwise -- is going to spend the money getting a phone approved by the FCC for 1700/2200UMTS in the US unless they already have a firm order from AT&T or T-Mobile that's contingent upon getting that approval first.
Thus, it's obviously not inconceivable that a phone not officially approved for 1700/2200UMTS might work anyway. HOWEVER, if someone were caught trying to import phones capable of 1700/2200UMTS that weren't approved by *somebody* official, they'd be confiscated and destroyed.
There IS a possible loophole: since most new cell phones have software-defined radios, it would be VERY possible for a Chinese company to export phones to the US that were approved for international UMTS frequencies (1900/2100), and were shipped with radio firmware that did ONLY those frequencies... but ALSO quietly leak the unapproved firmware that would "magically" enable 1700/2200 UMTS radio operation. Now, technically, anyone using a phone like that to do 1700/2200UMTS would be breaking the law... but as a practical matter, the phone would work fine, and nobody would know the difference.
I know this, because there were quite a few discussions about it regarding the TrollTech GreenPhone and OpenMoko. AFAIK, nobody ever managed to hack the firmware to enable 1700/2200UMTS for either phone, but that was mainly because TrollTech and FIC are big companies with a lot to lose if they made the FCC angry. On the OTHER hand, I can definitely see a small(er) Chinese handset manufacturer quietly leaking a copy of firmware capable of 1700/2200UMTS to an American importer for him to test, then order 100,000 phones to sell on eBay once he's verified that the phones can be reflashed and do 1700/2200UMTS on T-Mobile. The phones would be legal to import, because their 'out of the box' capabilities would be exactly what were officially approved... but anyone could then buy them and reflash them to do 1700/2200UMTS on Tmo. As long as the guy selling them didn't *advertise* them as 1700/2200-capable, ship them with the unapproved firmware, or get caught telling customers how to do it, the FCC couldn't touch him. He *might* even be able to get away with a disclaimer in the ad, like "WARNING: This phone is only APPROVED for 1900/2100UMTS, and MUST NOT be reflashed with unauthorized firmware to enable 1700/2200 UMTS." (making it obvious to everyone that it's not only possible, but probably quite easy to do).
As far as CDMA phones go, imported phones aren't likely to be useful in America for quite a while. There's no technical reason why they wouldn't work. The problem is that Sprint maintains a database of the ESN of every phone they officially sell, and they won't allow customers to use phones whose ESN isn't in their holy database. In theory, Verizon WILL allow you to use any unlocked CDMA phone you can get to work... but as a practical matter, this just means you can flash a Sprint phone that's the twin of a Verizon phone with Verizon firmware. Without Verizon-specific firmware, you'll have problems with data (I'm pretty sure EV-DO won't work), text messages will get mangled (Verizon formats them differently than everyone else), and the phone's voicemail indicator won't work properly.
God knows, 4-5 years ago, there were two or three Chinese-made CDMA PalmOS phones I would have *killed* to be able to use on Sprint.
The point I made about Chinese phones being "rooted out of the box" was actually a compliment, meant to illustrate that to users HERE (at XDA-develoeprs), Chinese phones are likely to be more interesting than American & European phones *if* someone can figure out how to get them onto T-Mobile, Sprint, and Verizon "through the back door" (or lobby China's government to twist Obama's arm and get the FCC to *force* Sprint and Verizon to let us have R-UIM cards and use any unlocked CDMA phone we want, in the name of international interoperability). I suspect the 1700/2200 problem will take care of itself in another 2-3 years (eventually, CE and the others WILL start certifying 1700/2200 capabilities, because Europeans will want phones that can officially do 3G UMTS when visiting the US), though 850UMTS is probably a lost cause for economic and technological reasons (getting a software radio that can already do 1900/2100 to also do 1700/2200 is a small change... getting it to do 850 is another matter entirely).
Likewise, the point I made about Chinese phones being very similar hardware-wise, and using nearly identical firmware, was meant to illustrate another reason why they'd likely be of interest to users HERE... if someone can get Android 2.1 to build for ONE Chinese phone, there's a good chance that they'd be able to get it to build for ANY Chinese phone built from the same reference platform and chipset. To a certain extent, that's already the case with HTC phones. In the long run, Chinese companies will be the ones that commoditize Android phones, creating hundreds of handsets that are more or less hardware-compatible as long as you have the right drivers (the way laptops are), but vary in the small details that currently frustrate so many users here. If I could buy a Chinese CDMA Android phone capable of working on Sprint with 800x480 display, 5MP camera, with a REAL gamepad (like the Sidekick has/had), and real hardkeys (I *hate* fake touchscreen buttons), I wouldn't *care* whether HTC and all of Sprint's official phones were button-free iSlabs. In the long run, China's domestic market is so big that if someone can come up with a way to keep those phones compatible with US & European networks, EVERYONE will benefit from increased choice -- especially users whose preferences differ from those of the iPhone-drooling masses. When there are 2-3 billion potential customers (between the US, Europe, and China), you can get away with making niche products that only appeal to a narrower group of buyers, because .01% of 3 billion is STILL 300,000
knock offs of what exactly?
isn't android open source? isnt this what google intended?
some interesting points made in this thread, nice to see comments from a manufacturer
just want to say (as iv have researched a lot on these knocks off type phones) a lot are Beautiful ! well worth the money.. have Good build quality , hardware & software (there smartphones anyway) and last time I checked my htc's etc were not built in US, Canada or tha UK lol
Just to add, http://fastcardtech.com Anyway not only has grate products, desent customerservice (Quick to answer anyway) They allso offer One year warrenty on all products, have grate prices (high shiping costs) They allso have a lot of grate video unboxings & reviews allso by there customers.. So buying a brand new WM or andriod smartphone that comes with warrenty for $100 to $200 is well worth it in my books... even if its just for WiFi surfing & software testing..
hello
I am from syria i got htc sensation i want to use market to download program but it's not working here , i tried to use market enabler but still same i don't know what to do
Hi, do you have accept the ToS of the Market ?
Syria is sanctioned country for any company in the United States. Thus Google is not allowed to do business with anybody in Syria. See: http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Programs/Pages/Programs.aspx
From what I've read you can run Android Market when you use a SIM from another country in your phone (the phone of course needs to be SIM unlocked to do that).
Yea no getting around the government shut down unless ya have an unlocked phone. But even then the service in your country may be locked instead of individual phones and sim cards. So even if you had say a US sim card would it even work, and if it did work once you got on the market would it allow you access outside your countries intranet to use google? Id ask around before spending any earned money lol... Here in America out internet isnt to limited. Going online and typing www.google.com and nothing showing up or getting that this website doesnt exist error would suck!
Just my noob 2 cents!
OPERATION: Make Ourselves Heard (#OPMOSH) 2.0
"Developer Edition"
DISCLAIMER:
We here, in the movement of #OPMOSH do not consider this spam, we do not consider this slandering Moto, we simply use this as a method of having our concerns heard. Motorola Mobility Inc. has been a powerful company that has been around for a very long time, and one we hope to see long in the future as well, before and after the Google buyout (which, might I add, is not completed). That being said...
Prologue:
Motorola Mobility Inc.'s executives and PR team have become famous for lying, having generally poor consumer relations, and amongst all, having a tendency to flat out prove time and time again that it cares very little for its customers after they walk out of that store with their shiny Motorola-branded device. It's definitely not hard to find examples of this - their refusal to upgrade devices that are fully capable of running the latest Android OS, the XOOM 4G upgrade fiasco, re-releasing phones with the same hardware but the most current OS (Defy/Defy+, anyone?), and even locking their bootloaders in the first place. Galaxy Nexus users around the world are laughing in our faces, now. But why is that?
Well, since the early days of Android, post Droid 1, we have (mostly) remained quiet about our locked bootloaders, hoping that one day Motorola would take a second glance at us, and follow other companies leads. The Droid X, the Droid 2, Droid 2 Global, Droid X2, Droid Bionic, and dozens more devices slid by with locked bootloaders, to the dismay of those wanting a long-term device like the Droid 1 was... There came to be a boiling point, though - and many, MANY full-out wars were launched on their social media sites, just a year ago. Sound familiar? Yes, the same thing that worked with HTC's (and now with Asus') bootloader policies.
At the end of the most successful campaign, known as the #UnlockMoto movement (which I extend my deepest gratitude towards everyone involved in), we received a broad, carefully worded announcement, via AusDroid, that unlockable bootloaders were being looked into. Flash forward to late 2011, and we're given another announcement, still quite broad, about the unlockable bootloaders... a "second half of 2011" timing for software releases, via MOTODEV.
...Welcome to Q1 2012, Motorola fans. Not only have they missed their deadline, and rogue-edited their blog post's timeframe for the bootloader unlock software rollout from the "second half of 2011" to "later this year", but they have actually given an official announcement of their plans... to release a completely separate HARDWARE version of the RAZR with an unlockable bootloader. This is unacceptable for those of us who dished out 700 dollars, full retail, to get our brand new Droid RAZR/Droid RAZR MAXX in hopes that they would eventually set free, and even MORE unacceptable for Droid 3, Bionic, and other Motorola users that don't even get an eyelash batted at. DOWNRIGHT UNACCEPTABLE. Basically... Motorola has screwed us over. Again.
But we here at #OPMOSH aren't done. Raise your voices - let's Make OurSelves Heard yet again, to let Moto know that this "Developer Edition" RAZR had better be available either as a trade for our devices, old or new, paying the difference in price, or not at all, since we all bought our devices in hopes that they would keep their word in the first place. Everyone counts!
Moto's Facebook - Moto's Twitter - Petition - FCC Complaints (Against Verizon)
So....What can I do?
Well, at this time, we don't know whether it is Verizon's or Motorola's decision that is causing all of these bootloader-related problems, so there's quite a few general things that you can do to help inch them along. The most important of them all would be to...
FIRST OFF, SIGN THE PETITION:
This is included in the email, so it is crucial that it continues to grow in number.
This petition is specifically worded so that they unlock their EXISTING bootloaders rather than releasing ~Developer's Editions~ of all of their phones. So much for their plans to not saturate the market with 9,000 phones in 2012, right?
Then....
TRY CALLING VERIZON'S EXECUTIVES.
Make sure before calling that you are very informed about the issue and confident in your position, yet can be quite calm. Do not show any disrespect towards Marie H or the person you call. They are merely the (wo)man-in-the-middle, and you simply need to explain to them your position and back it up with facts. Also, do note that all times are EST.
Call Marie H. at (412) 266-7756 on Monday - Fridays, 8 am to 5 pm. OR Michelle at (803) 231-1787 on Monday - Fridays, 7 am to 4 pm. OR Call Verizon customer service at *611 or (800) 922-0204 and get to a rep by mashing 0.
This is something you cannot copy-paste, unfortunately. Here are some guidelines that should help you be successful in your endeavor:
- First off, if you get the voicemail, leave your name, number, and a time you can be contacted in case they wish to follow-up call.
- Mention that many are filing FCC complaints because locking smartphone bootloaders prevents users from installing the software that they want (the OS), and thus violates Block C guidelines. (Do research in case this is brought into question)
- Mention that HTC, Motorola, and Samsung have bootloader-unlockable devices on the network right now, so there's no legitimate reason to be selling a totally new device... (HTC has their 2011 devices, Moto has the Xoom, and Samsung the Galaxy Nexus)
- Mention that the bootloader being unlocked does not allow the device to do anything that a laptop that is using a 4G hotspot cannot do even faster/more efficiently, including hogging network resources.
- Mention that the bootloaders being FORCE locked (as in, not unlockable) does not offer protection from any present viruses or attacks of Android devices.
- Mention also that unlocking the bootloaders could very well use a system like HTC uses - which stores the IMEI of the device and voids its software warranty indefinitely, making Verizon's warranty services not liable for what a user installs on their device.
- Close your talk/voicemail by stating the number of signatures on the petition, currently well over 5,000, and saying that this is a widespread concern of many users, that wish Android to be truly open.
- Say thank you before you hang up, it'll really give off a good impression.
Also, you could...
TRY AN FCC COMPLAINT:
http://esupport.fcc.gov/complaints.htm
Select Wireless Telephone > Billing, Service, Privacy, Number Portability and other issues > Online Form. Fill out your information, scroll down, fill out 1 and 2, skip 3 and 4. Then in 5:
- Tell the FCC that your phone’s bootloader was sold to you locked, preventing the regulatory requirement of BLOCK C Devices (MAKE SURE TO MENTION BLOCK C!!!) that "Consumers should be able to download and utilize any software applications, content, or services they desire" - make sure to cite that.
- Also helpful would be dispelling the "Reasonable network management" exclusion. Tell the FCC that Verizon allows tethering of unauthorized devices to 4G LTE services through their mobile hotspots and their paid phone tethering functionality as-is, ones that are more bandwidth-hungry and also permit installing custom operating systems, and have a potential of doing significantly more damage, such as laptops.
If you don't want to write yours up manually, we will have a pre-made step 5 that you can just copy paste soon, hopefully.
Don't forget to...
TRY EMAILING:
TO: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
To Whom It May Concern,
Motorola, please, we beg of you to hear us out. We bought your devices faithfully, some of us standing in line, some of us saving our hard-earned money for weeks, for months, because we were so excited to get our hands on this shiny new piece of technology, be it the Droid 3, the RAZR, the Droid RAZR, the Bionic, the Atrix 4G... Even the Droid X, Droid 2, Milestone, and other users. We were aching to do the impossible with it - to break records with unparalleled speed, to optimize, to customize. To shun those who didn't believe in you delivering on your promise to unlock the full potential for your well-constructed devices, Motorola. We've been faithfully waiting.
And waiting, and waiting. Until today, when you delivered the announcement of the Motorola RAZR Developer's Edition. And unfortunately, this is not like the XOOM's 4G upgrade, where users could send in their already purchased devices - no. This is a completely new device. There is zero compensation or consideration for those of us who already have Motorola-branded phones in our hands.
Motorola.... We Droid RAZR users... We Atrix 4G users... We Droid Bionic users... Even we Droid RAZR MAXX users that got our phones less than a week ago... What about us, Motorola? You gave us your word. It was a tipping decision for a lot of your buyers that purchased the Droid RAZR, to know that we would be a part of history, having the very first Motorola device with an unlockable bootloader. Why did you alienate us? You saw all of our petitions, and this announcement seems a lot like a one-trick pony, something that will start here, not sell well (because we've already purchased the exact same phone and aren't financially able to purchase another), and never happen again. Will there ever be a consumer device that also doubles as a treat for the enthusiasts, like the Transformer Prime? Or any of HTC's devices? As faithful customers, we've been faithfully waiting.
This is like a slap in the face to every buyer of your high-end phones. We very much do appreciate that you're trying, but this is not the solution you need, or that we need. At least not in its current form. Please put your foot down firmly. If Verizon is causing this, you do have the ability to change it. Nexus devices changed it. HTC changed it.
Honor your core demographic, the Android enthusiasts, and unlock your devices. If not the ones you've already released, then all in the future. 2012 is an important year for all of us. Please.
Sincerely,
One of the over 15,000 people represented by the internet petitions listed below.
http://www.change.org/petitions/motorola-mobility-inc-unlock-all-smartphone-bootloaders-2
http://www.groubal.com/motorola-lockedencrypted-bootloader-policy/
Or...
TRY TWEETING:
Really, @Motorola? I don't see any mention of a "Developer's Edition". http://moto.ly/icsboot #OPMOSH2
Or even...
TRY POSTING ON THEIR FACEBOOK WALL:
I'm fairly sure a "Developer's Edition" of the same phone isn't a "software release", Motorola. Give us a break. http://moto.ly/icsboot
But above all...
MAKE SURE TO SIGN THE PETITION!!
It is the backbone of this movement. We need as many signatures as possible.
We NEED to be heard to get anywhere. Spread the word to your Facebook friends, your Twitter friends, your Google Talk friends, your Google+ friends, your favorite Android news site, local newspaper, lawyers... Spread the word! Bring freedom to the Android ecosystem, like Andy Rubin and Rich Miner intended.
Thank you SO much for your support. This community is amazing and I know our endeavors will come to fruition soon. See you on Moto's Facebook!
Already started! Been spamming facebook for two days...
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
what is the point of this? if it's about the bootloaders try spamming Verizon instead as Motorola has already announced that the bootloaders are locked at the discretion of carrier
con5tant said:
what is the point of this? if it's about the bootloaders try spamming Verizon instead as Motorola has already announced that the bootloaders are locked at the discretion of carrier
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If they don't push for it but rather propose the idea lightly, we're not going to get anywhere. HTC and Samsung (w/ the help of google) did it, so can Moto.
Plus, they promised the second half of 2011, and they haven't started in any market anywhere, internationally or state-side.
And hey, the voice of the people just got Verizon to rethink its $2 convenience fee.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using xda premium
The voice of the people is what got us that announcement in the first place. Go!
The bootloaders will be unlocked with ICS this has been comfirmed by a VZW employee but the release date for ICS is still up in the air
hoag50 said:
The bootloaders will be unlocked with ICS this has been comfirmed by a VZW employee but the release date for ICS is still up in the air
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is this the same employee that told us the nexus would come out on december eighth?
Time for my daily motorola facebook spam.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
seanmcd72 said:
Is this the same employee that told us the nexus would come out on december eighth?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah seriously if it's not an executive it means nothing, and an executive would never just announce something like that casually.
con5tant said:
what is the point of this? if it's about the bootloaders try spamming Verizon instead as Motorola has already announced that the bootloaders are locked at the discretion of carrier
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats already been proven as a BS excuse from Moto. HTC unlocked their bootloaders on VZW's phones.
Just post this over and over on their facebook wall.
“In terms of your question – we completely understand the operator requirement for security to the end user, and as well, want to support the developer communities desire to use these products as a development platform. It is our intention to enable the unlockable/relockable bootloader currently found on Motorola XOOM across our portfolio of devices starting in late 2011, where carriers and operators will allow it.”
HTC was allowed by Verizon Wireless to unlock the HTC Thunderbolt, your excuses are invalid now Moto!
Start a petition at http://www.change.org like the one that just made Verizon change the $2 fee....
mattlgroff said:
Just post this over and over on their facebook wall.
“In terms of your question – we completely understand the operator requirement for security to the end user, and as well, want to support the developer communities desire to use these products as a development platform. It is our intention to enable the unlockable/relockable bootloader currently found on Motorola XOOM across our portfolio of devices starting in late 2011, where carriers and operators will allow it.”
HTC was allowed by Verizon Wireless to unlock the HTC Thunderbolt, your excuses are invalid now Moto!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hmm....late 2011....seems like that has come and gone now.
I'm not entirely sure why people are touting your excuses are now invalid based on HTC unlocking their bootloaders. It's not like Motorola and HTC are going to have identical contracts with Verizon
HTC and Samsung were able to pull it off. I highly highly doubt their contract even brushes against the bootloaders at all, anyway.
What if moto is just hiding behind the carriers to never unlock them. Yes others have done it and to me it doesn't that hard to convince a carrier, unless of course you're not trying too hard. We can all move onto other devices but really what's the ratio of us hardcore users vs those that don't even know what a bootloader is. We can spam their social pages I guess but even there you're getting resistance from regular users who aren't in our hardcore world standing up for moto thinking they are the greatest thing since slice bread. But hey, if we don't try who's going to.
Asus felt the heat, now it's time we step our game up on Moto. Can someone repost this wherever possible (X, X2, Bionic, Xyboard, Atrix 2, Rootz, Droidforums, etc. Forums) and link back to this thread so we stay organized, and we'll launch a full out war against Moto for their lies. Go!
(Also feel free to click Submit this Thread as a News Tip at the top right thanks ok)
If anything, it should be easier for Moto to do this than for HTC or Samsung, since Moto devices carry Verizon's Android experience. Not that the HTC and Sammy phones are bad or worse, but phones like the Droid, Droid X, Droid 2, Droid Bionic, Droid RAZR, etc. are the flagship phones for Verizon. If anything, Verizon has more onus to be harsh with HTC and Samsung over Motorola (Bing as default comes to mind).
They already have the phone-side software there on the newer models, we're just waiting for them to flip the switch on "fastboot oem unlock" to allow. That's literally it. It's stupidly easy. Keep going!
Hello.
I'm living outside US and would like to register my S3 on samsung.com site.
Somehow it seems to be impossible for customers outside US.
Can't find the device (only devices with carrier agreement listed).
Is it somehow possible and I'm missing something out or ...
Hi all,
Im a still a bit green around the edges when it comes to dealing with android os.
I have 2 lgv30 (tmobile) and my goals are.....(this is what i need help with)
1. I want to run everything locally, no cloud, no sync, no backups, no services, nothing. I paid for these phones so i shouldnt have google or tmobile in my grille mining my personal data.
2. I dont care if google apps work or not....like i said im trying to get all my stuff on my phone working from my phone and not shared.
3. I have to use microsoft outlook and the home screen launcher microsoft makes is nice... Not intrusive like the google services stuff.
Im trying to clamp down on this privacy securitu stuff thats run amok with google... Copperhead OS is great and i would use it if my phone would work with it.... I dont login or sync any google accounts but i would really like to strip down and know how to achieve my goal with android 8.0.... The bloat, the privacy invasive crap, etc.... Looks like with 8.0 you can lockdown per app per permission....
Any thoughts or ideas?
Thanks
J
Ratfink11 said:
2. I dont care if google apps work or not....like i said im trying to get all my stuff on my phone working from my phone and not shared.
3. I have to use microsoft outlook and the home screen launcher microsoft makes is nice... Not intrusive like the google services stuff
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL. Do you even imagine why RIM and their BBOS vanished? And Meego too? Because Uncle Sam wants your data, not because Android was somewhat better than they or Win Mobile 6.5. With WinMobile 6.5 you could store all your data locally, but seems that now only option is either to disable all google apps on your phone or better get root and flash some Gapps-free ROM.
You may want to read such topics maybe you'll find there more helpfull advices
Ratfink11 said:
Hi all,
Im a still a bit green around the edges when it comes to dealing with android os.
I have 2 lgv30 (tmobile) and my goals are.....(this is what i need help with)
1. I want to run everything locally, no cloud, no sync, no backups, no services, nothing. I paid for these phones so i shouldnt have google or tmobile in my grille mining my personal data.
2. I dont care if google apps work or not....like i said im trying to get all my stuff on my phone working from my phone and not shared.
3. I have to use microsoft outlook and the home screen launcher microsoft makes is nice... Not intrusive like the google services stuff.
Im trying to clamp down on this privacy securitu stuff thats run amok with google... Copperhead OS is great and i would use it if my phone would work with it.... I dont login or sync any google accounts but i would really like to strip down and know how to achieve my goal with android 8.0.... The bloat, the privacy invasive crap, etc.... Looks like with 8.0 you can lockdown per app per permission....
Any thoughts or ideas?
Thanks
J
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let's hope you don't have a T-Mobile exclusive V30 then, because that one is unrootable, bootloader not unlockable, etc. (the only one out of all V30 that can be customized pretty extensively)
1. k, just flash e.g. lineageOS, RR, AEX, dot os, etc. and leave gapps away (only flash the ROM)
2. You want to minimize Google tracking ? Install AdAway as a basis with its 4 blocking lists to be added to your hosts file, then install Blokada - use the "Mother of All ..." (the XDA extensive blocking list), install firewalls (best opensource based) and block off internet access to apps. With "App Ops"/"Privacy Guard" you can fine-grained tweak which apps run in background, at boot, keep your device awake and other things (e.g. location permissions). There's others but that's it for now
3. See if you can get an app or functionality (via XPosed, etc.) that lets you see if there is more internet communication with Outlook & MS Home Screen Launcher than there should be and block it via firewall or add it to hosts file, the extensive blocking list on Blokada might be too much and prevent Outlook from functioning properly so you might need to go with a less aggressive option
Privacy/Security wise it's not only Google, it's Microsoft, Google, FB, Twitter, etc.
It's all companies together and a pretty wide surveillance net.
In any case use a Browser that supports adblocking, disabling of Javascript and additional features (thinking about tracking cookies, invisible image trackers, etc. etc.)
Yeah, there are more things you can tweak related to permissions with 8.0
The following might be interesting:
https://www.naturalnews.com/2018-08...ation-even-if-you-turn-off-location-data.html
https://apnews.com/828aefab64d4411b...-Google-tracks-your-movements,-like-it-or-not
https://pjmedia.com/vodkapundit/ap-report-google-knows-where-you-are-even-if-you-disable-tracking/
So in that case we might need location spoofers or anything related (if those even work)
Well....?????
I do have the TMobile LG V30.
looks like im going to have to wait a couple months before it can be rooted???? From what im reading its still being worked on? Unfortuneatley i didnt have the option to go with the unlocked versions.
I definately want to move to Lineage...
Any suggestions or further info regarding rooting and unlocking bootloader would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks everyone for your help.
Ratfink11 said:
Well....?????
I do have the TMobile LG V30.
looks like i'm going to have to wait a couple months before it can be rooted???? From what im reading its still being worked on?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Won't ever be done. I'll be glad to be proven wrong, of course. I'm just stating probability. T-mobile H932 was released October 2017. This is now mid-August 2018.
1) RSA encryption on H932 is completely different from other North America variants.
2) Other phones are coming along which gets developers' attention. No one is really working on the H932 specifically, because of point #3...
3) There's no need since every V30/V30+/V30S on the planet -- EXCEPT for the T-mobile H932 has easy bootloader unlock, TWRP, root. Use one of those on T-mobile.
Ratfink11 said:
Unfortunately i didnt have the option to go with the unlocked versions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why not? Somebody held a gun to your head? Lots of T-mobile users are using the unlocked versions on T-mobile. No one forced you to buy the H932 specifically.
The carrier unlocked US998 (or the H931, H933, VS996, AS998, LS998 CONVERTED to US998) runs just fine on T-mobile. Plus, the carrier unlocked V30S.
So, there's SEVEN different North America V30/V30+ variant choices for you to buy to run on T-mobile. Mint LS998 V30+ is $315 on eBay right now, and eBay often gives 10% to 20% flash sales to bring the price even lower. Lots of people in this forum bought for 20% off for Father's Day sale, including me.
I've been on AT&T since 2012 and I've NEVER owned an AT&T branded phone. I always buy carrier unlocked phones.
So are you saying i can install lineage os on my tmobile lg v30?
My company has a contract account with tmobile....similar to goverment accounts. Tmobile supplies the phones we have to use..They wont activate any phone except the ones they provide. However, phones can have custom roms and still be used.
I also have employees that have the need for two or more phones due to seperating phone from tethering needs and new bandwidth coming from tmobile. Tmobile provided ALL the phones at huge discounts, no money up front and low monthly payments.
Not everyone has money to throw around......And im guessing here....perhaps like you can? Maybe your the richest man in the world? It must be nice... If someone did hold a gun to my head at our time of purchase we would all be dead because we dont have trust funds like you might have?Its really wonderful you can purchase 2 lg v30 on ebay or amazon and drop 2k with no issues....my employees cant....
Ratfink11 said:
So are you saying i can install lineage os on my tmobile lg v30?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm saying you can NOT. H932 does not have the fastboot flash commands necessary to install TWRP and root, using the LG Oreo bootloader unlock expoit @TxanMoe found. The other North America variants can be "converted" to US998 for the necessary fastboot flash commands. For some after that, you can even convert back to original model if you wish.
H932 has different RSA encryption than the other North America variants so it's impossible.
Ratfink11 said:
My company has a contract account with tmobile....similar to goverment accounts. Tmobile supplies the phones we have to use..They wont activate any phone except the ones they provide. However, phones can have custom roms and still be used.
I also have employees that have the need for two or more phones due to seperating phone from tethering needs and new bandwidth coming from tmobile. Tmobile provided ALL the phones at huge discounts, no money up front and low monthly payments.
Not everyone has money to throw around......And im guessing here....perhaps like you have. Its really wonderful you can purchase 2 lg v30 on ebay or amazon and drop 2k with no issues....my employees cant....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then you didn't read what I wrote. I suggest you read before replying. How does $252 per phone on eBay = $2,000? I'll post again since you didn't read. I'll even do the math for you:
ChazzMatt said:
Mint LS998 V30+ is $315 on eBay right now, and eBay often gives 10% to 20% flash sales to bring the price even lower. Lots of people in this forum bought for 20% off for Father's Day sale, including me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
$315 - 20% = $252.
Convert that to US998, root, use on T-mobile with custom ROM. Lots of people use them on T-mobile. It's called Bring Your Own Phone. T-mobile allows non-branded phones to be used on T-mobile -- example Google Pixel phones or ANY compatible phone.
If your company's contract prevents that, too bad. Personal accounts do not prevent that.
Can you buy a another V30 phone and put your company T-Mobile SIM card in? Then root?