Hello All,
As you all know I've been part of Xda and assiting in a positive resolution from HTC in requests from Bootloaders to source codes. Well seeing we have a great device that seemed to be given EOL to early in its game.. in my opinion due to lack of marketing skills. Well I will be posting in HTC FB to get our voice out to them for the Source Code release for our device.
Please comment "Like" and comment to request this so we can continue development for the Flyer.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151213297764443&set=o.165420456859572&type=1&ref=nf
And Here:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151213304969443&set=o.101063233083&type=1&relevant_count=1
Um, source code of what? They release sources of Honeycomb, and there are no sources of ICS or Jelly Bean, so what's the whole point?
Source code for drivers which can be ported to ICS and JB. Anyway it helps coders make their own drivers for Camera/Front camera and for video
kayoma said:
Source code for drivers which can be ported to ICS and JB. Anyway it helps coders make their own drivers for Camera/Front camera and for video
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then we would need not just the drivers, but the whole 3.x kernel. I believe it's much harder to adapt ICS/JB drivers to GB/HC kernels
kayoma said:
Source code for drivers which can be ported to ICS and JB. Anyway it helps coders make their own drivers for Camera/Front camera and for video
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then we're asking the wrong ppl, it's not HTC. to understand this first you need to understand what makes up a ROM.
There is the kernel which is low level device specific, the kernel is mostly based on open source linux code, htc adds some board and device specific configuration on top of that.
Then there is the aosp which is also open source, an operating system provided by google that makes up most part of any ROM.
Then you have your aosp derivative like CM or AOKP, which provides board specific fixes and some customization. HTC's ROM is also based on aosp, but they add their own sense look and feel to it.
And finally and most importantly you have your close source proprietary drivers provided by chip manufactures like Qualcomm and TI. They control cameras, wifi, BT...etc. So in reality there is very little HTC could do as they don't have the rights to release these code. And that's is where most ppl run into issues.
So to create a ROM is not hard at all, anybody can download the source code and compile it to generate a ROM as most of the source code are all open source. What will be helpful is if Qualcomm releases the source code for their drivers, which I doubt they will ever do, otherwise they wouldn't be close source in the first place. The only thing we could do is try to reverse engineer the device base on logs and understanding of how each component should work and make educated guesses.
Due to HTC lack of effort on this device (No ICS - HC was slow joke) I will never buy another HTC product again, same goes for sony, though they did eventually update xperia x10i it was only due to huge pressure not because they wanted to.
I want to buy an electronic product that potentially remains relevant at least a year later otherwise forget it.
so i sent this letter to HTC
after reading this page where HTC discusses 4.1 upgrades i decided to drop them a line "
DIRECTLY FROM YOUR WEBSITE:
When will additional devices receive Android 4.1?
In addition to the HTC One X and HTC One S, we are actively reviewing our product portfolio to identify candidates to receive Jelly Bean. Our goal is to prioritize review for devices launched in 2012 with our numerous carrier partners across multiple regions and then consider our ability to provide updates to products from 2011.
What devices will not get Android 4.1?
We work hard to ensure each of our products has the optimal user experience and therefore some products will remain at their current version of Android. In general, devices with 512MB RAM or less will not be upgraded to Android 4.1. At present, these devices include the HTC One V and the HTC Desire C. As we identify other devices that will not be upgraded, we'll provide updated information.
What about a development version of Android 4.1?
For our developer community, we plan to make generic development ROMs of Jelly Bean available for both the HTC One X and HTC One S. As soon as the ROMs are ready, they will be posted to our HTCdev site (www.htcdev.com). We strongly recommend customers take the time to understand the limitations of the development software along with the terms and conditions on the site before downloading to their device.
REALLY!? have you listened to what your customers have asked/said about the HTC flyer at all?! where is OUR 4.1 DEVELOPMENT ROM! wtf! where are you for us!? I can tell you where... you are giving us 3.2 HC that takes away two very important features i bought the device for #1 GPS! completely broken by your newest update to HC. #2. Hardware Keys.... WHY?! i understand that HC introduced soft keys. so you say you "We work hard to ensure each of our products has the optimal user experience" BULL! you clearly weren't thinking about the end user when you pushed out that HC update for the flyer. Would have been smarter for you to leave us on working GB and go straight to ICS or JB when it was ready! this is lunacy! who ever is making decisions in your company needs fired. you are bleeding money from everywhere. why don't you bring it back to the old school HTC that CARED! ABOUT! IT'S CUSTOMERS! listen to what we are saying! hear our voice! we have signed petitions. we have pleaded on multiple forums. WE have poured over your FB and twitter pages asking for you to throw us a freaking bone here.... when is it gonna happen? ever?!
I still have my flyer and i love it dearly. but without updates it's falling behind the pack. I recently bought a 10.1 galaxy note. while i'm happy with it's speed and what not. it's not the form factor i want. which is what the flyer is for me. perfect. PLEASE DON'T GIVE UP ON US OR THIS DEVICE! PLEASE RELEASE A DEVELOPER ROM FOR OUR FLYER! "
this was their reply (you will want to read it for sure)
Dear Matt,
Thanks for contacting HTC!
We completely understand your concern and I thank you for your patience and am deeply sorry if this issue has caused you any dissatisfaction with HTC or its phones. I hope that it will not detract from your overall perspective of the device or the company. You are the most important part of the HTC Family.
We listen to our community and feedbacks like yours are the ones that make us revise our decisions, and try to find the correct balance between the device’s performance and usability. We cannot announce or say anything about the Flyer right now but what I can tell you is that we are, indeed, paying attention to the community´s feedback and opinions.
Should you require further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us through http://www.htc.com/us/support/email-support or call us at +1-866-449-8358 from 6AM to 1AM EST, 7 days a week.
Have a great day!
Let me know if I have successfully answered your question, please click here to complete this.
To send a reply to this message, please click here.
Sincerely,
Carlos
HTC
I appreciate the passion here, but HTC left this device for dead along with the Jetstream and View shortly after releasing it. We received what would amounted to a Beta of Honeycomb then they closed up shop. You live and learn, and although I still use my Flyer and enjoy it I will not buy another HTC device
I completely agree with you .. HTC should give us ICS or JB for our Flyer as a good faith. We must keep GB because honeycomb is a joke..
I use my Flyer and i try as much as possible with the optimized news on GB .. and share with you.
Hoping for a good action on their part for JB!!
Fatal1ty_18_RUS said:
Then we would need not just the drivers, but the whole 3.x kernel. I believe it's much harder to adapt ICS/JB drivers to GB/HC kernels
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so the kernel source for HC 3.2 that's in HTCDev,,that is NOT the entire kernel sourcecode?
i know it's an old thread but i am wondering...
gersto said:
so the kernel source for HC 3.2 that's in HTCDev,,that is NOT the entire kernel sourcecode?
i know it's an old thread but i am wondering...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that the honeycomb kernel .
doesn't do you much good for ICS or JB
yncconsulting said:
Then we're asking the wrong ppl, it's not HTC. to understand this first you need to understand what makes up a ROM.
.
.
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You didn't understand I think. The drivers are part of the kernel. May they be compiled into the kernel itself or in form of modules. Drivers can be binary objects to be linked (already compiled) or source code which will be compiled when the kernel is built.
If you have the drivers source code there is a fairly good chance to get them running in newer kernels with some minor changes.
So from my point of view you will have a good chance to even get 4.2 up and running as long as you have the drivers source code.
Sent from my GT-I9100G using xda app-developers app
ktp1976 said:
You didn't understand I think. The drivers are part of the kernel. May they be compiled into the kernel itself or in form of modules. Drivers can be binary objects to be linked (already compiled) or source code which will be compiled when the kernel is built.
If you have the drivers source code there is a fairly good chance to get them running in newer kernels with some minor changes.
So from my point of view you will have a good chance to even get 4.2 up and running as long as you have the drivers source code.
Sent from my GT-I9100G using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah, so my point is HTC publishes kernel source code, not drivers, they don't even own some of the drivers .,so you will never get that. You get a HC kernel ,that works with a HC blob set and you cannot build a working 4.xx kernel because you don;t have a 4.xxx blob set and HTC won't give you one because they have never written one and never will
DigitalMD said:
that the honeycomb kernel .
doesn't do you much good for ICS or JB
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well they must be of some good since we have ICS/JB ROMs out there that are "mostly" complete, slick and usable, although slightly buggy, so obviously yeah i get that it doesn't solve all the issues we have, since some drivers are missing: as evident by the non-working FC, no hardware decoding for video, and semi-working BT
DigitalMD said:
yeah, so my point is HTC publishes kernel source code, not drivers, they don't even own some of the drivers .,so you will never get that. You get a HC kernel ,that works with a HC blob set and you cannot build a working 4.xx kernel because you don;t have a 4.xxx blob set and HTC won't give you one because they have never written one and never will
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not exactly. The kernel is also part of AOSP. And even if HTC does not supply the driver sources there is a slight chance to use old driver binaries or to have them reverse engineered by some genius dev. Hope is the last to die
Sent from my GT-I9100G using xda app-developers app
ktp1976 said:
Not exactly. The kernel is also part of AOSP. And even if HTC does not supply the driver sources there is a slight chance to use old driver binaries or to have them reverse engineered by some genius dev. Hope is the last to die
Sent from my GT-I9100G using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Keep dreaming. Some of the best around have tried that path.
No the device kernel is not in AOSP, the base linux (ANdorid) kernel source resides there, but if you look at the build, it calls in device , vendor, OS verson and board specific components to make a complete build. All that hooks into the blobs (drivers and libs) to make up the device specific environment that allows Android version X.XX to run
DigitalMD said:
Keep dreaming. Some of the best around have tried that path.
No the device kernel is not in AOSP, the base linux (ANdorid) kernel source resides there, but if you look at the build, it calls in device , vendor, OS verson and board specific components to make a complete build. All that hooks into the blobs (drivers and libs) to make up the device specific environment that allows Android version X.XX to run
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for clarification. So I was not wrong about the drivers, which are the device and vendor specific components. In other words if you can get the vendor to release their sources or make their chip/board manufacturers to release their sources is the only way to go. Seems a bit unrealistic though but who knows...
Sent from my GT-I9100G using xda app-developers app
All should email the HTCDev
Use this link http://www.htcdev.com/contact
They themselves posted on that link
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151213304969443&set=o.101063233083&type=1&relevant_count=1
Takes just f**kin 5 seconds
May be they will listen some day
freworld said:
All should email the HTCDev
Use this link http://www.htcdev.com/contact
They themselves posted on that link
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151213304969443&set=o.101063233083&type=1&relevant_count=1
Takes just f**kin 5 seconds
May be they will listen some day
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
Related
I am wondering given that this device just got honeycomb.. is there any chance of it getting ICS?
Part of the reason I'm wondering is because I am getting my flyer sometime between the 10th and the 17th coming up according to the "estimated delivery date" when I hit buy.
I have had ICS on my captivate before I ever even got to play with Honeycomb.. my mom got the transformer yesterday.. and there are a few minor quirks with honeycomb that I really don't like.. major example being if you pull up the task manager in ICS you can remove windows and close out the programs.. Honeycomb will pull up windows that aren't open.. and it gets cluttered fast if your done with something and seeing 5 or more windows you don't want open, but can't get rid of..
no sign of ICS anytime soon but maybe if kernel source is released and CM9 development someone will port it here. In regards to the task management, yes it can get cluttered but it is better than not having it at all like gingerbread
I'm hoping they'll have the decency to update us or at least release the source code required...
IANAL, but I believe HTC legally has to release the kernel source for anything it releases. If they never release ICS, we may never get a kernel for ICS.
Honeycomb kernel might work, but I'm not sure if HTC is legally required to release honeycomb kernel source.
As far as I am aware, they did/may have use some proprietary software which would screw up our porting efforts.
So it becomes an issue of "will they" and that is what I am wondering.
Personally I don't think we will ever see ICS on the Flyer. Here are my reasons:
1. Not a lot of Flyers were sold so there is not a large user base. Thus, there is not much developer interest.
2. Sense - From what I understand from what developers have said, the kernels that HTC makes are made to work with Sense and will not work with an AOSP build.
These two things combine to make bringing ICS to the Flyer difficult and there is no one around who appears willing to do it.
I really hope that I am wrong about this but I don't think that I am.
Someone want to educate a noob?
How is it that several other devices (including HTC ones, like the Sensation) are getting ICS ports, but the Flyer/View can't? I mean, it seems unlikely that HTC released AOSP kernel sources for other devices, and even if they did, they're certainly not ICS kernels. Why is it so important for us to have an AOSP kernel (and an ICS one, at that) from HTC in order to get CM on the Flyer/View?
Oh, and then there's devices that didn't even have Android like the TouchPad, and devices that don't have their source code released, like the Kindle Fire.
I'm definitely not a developer, so I'm sure there's something I'm missing...I'm just trying to figure out what it is.
I'm repeating what developers told me or wrote here. I don't know if it is right or wrong.
I think the bottom line is that it is easier to have an AOSP kernel.
I think you can build your own kernel but that is much more work and maybe a hard thing to do.
All of the custom ROMs that we have seen for the Flyer are just modified HTC ROMs that come with certain software preinstalled or other kinds of enhancements.
More popular devices have much more developer interest. I would imagine that some less popular device owners get lucky because some developer also owns the device and is willing to spend the time.
So far, one developer said he would try to bring ICS to Flyer. He tried but gave up because of kernel issues. I don't get the impression that he did too much but at least he gave it a go. No other developer has said anything one way or the other.
I'm not holding my breath..
but, I definitely won't give up hope just yet..
The most likely path would be a port of another HTC device that uses the same processor or very similar. SO when some of the other HTC devices are released with ICS around March or so, we might see some goodness, depends on how close the hardware is and if HTC releases some source code.
DigitalMD said:
The most likely path would be a port of another HTC device that uses the same processor or very similar. SO when some of the other HTC devices are released with ICS around March or so, we might see some goodness, depends on how close the hardware is and if HTC releases some source code.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Makes sense to me.
Shame this device hasn't received more attention.
DigitalMD said:
The most likely path would be a port of another HTC device that uses the same processor or very similar. SO when some of the other HTC devices are released with ICS around March or so, we might see some goodness, depends on how close the hardware is and if HTC releases some source code.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is correct and likely the only way we see ICS in a timely manner.
Sent from my HTC_Flyer_P512_NA using Tapatalk
https://plus.google.com/105502178297258827378/posts/PxQ6cVjVdUd
dingnecros said:
https://plus.google.com/105502178297258827378/posts/PxQ6cVjVdUd
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He's been debunked several times.
Sent from my HTC_Flyer_P512_NA using Tapatalk
So I guess the big question as far as an official update goes.. is how much effort would HTC have to put out in order to do the upgrade...
And will it be worth it for them to do so..
I guess the pen is the biggest issue prevent the ICS update
Since it only works in Sense ROM, so even we have a perfect CM9, the pen function is wasted
ytwytw said:
I guess the pen is the biggest issue prevent the ICS update
Since it only works in Sense ROM, so even we have a perfect CM9, the pen function is wasted
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Would it be possible to take the pen code from honeycomb and implement it in CM9?
ytwytw said:
I guess the pen is the biggest issue prevent the ICS update
Since it only works in Sense ROM, so even we have a perfect CM9, the pen function is wasted
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd be content with an AOSP rom now, with the pen worked in later.
Sent from my HTC Flyer P510e using Tapatalk
We will see... if any devs are willing, I am sure as heck willing to help and take a crack at it myself..
You can't do AOSP without HTC's help for the kernel and drivers and since HTC only does sense kernels I'm thinking that's not going to happen. I still think a port of an HTC ICS ROM from another device is the most likely path, unless HTC is feeling exceptionally benevolent toward the Flyer. Perhaps the Jetstream tablet will get ICS and that can be ported...
Hi all,
I am noob at XDA. (About myself: I am a software engineer aged 30. I have been hacking computers since I was 10.)
I am here because I am planning to buy a new Android device soon. (And unless something really revolutionary happens, I don't plan to upgrade it in the next 2 years or so, so it's a long-term decision.)
My short-list is:
- HTC One S
- Sony Xperia S
or, if everything else fails:
- Samsung Galaxy Nexus
The hardware of the One S and the Xperia S is obviously more powerful than the Galaxy Nexus; my only concern is the software side of things.
The thing is, I really don't like the customization the hardware vendors do with the software, so I want to run raw vanilla AOSP, or something very close to it.
(CM definitely qualifies.)
Also, I am sick of waiting for ages for new android versions to be ported to my device.
Obviously, Galaxy Nexus is guaranteed to be get Android upgrades first, so that's a safe choice in this respect, but since I like the hardware of Xperia S (and One S) so much, I would like to gain a better understanding the software situation of them, so I can make an informed decision about my purchase.
I am aware of the fact that Sony is actively supporting the Free Xperia Team, which is bringing CM9 to Nozomi (among other devices), but I have no information about the details of the project, or it's limitations.
So, my questions are the following:
1. What is the exact nature of the support Sony is providing to the FXP team? (HW? HW docs? Binary drivers? Driver source? Consultation?) Has this changed in any way, now that Sony Ericsson has become Sony? Was this a one-time action, or have they made any commitment about the future?
2. What does one need to build a vanilla android ROM for the S, using the AOSP sources? (Let's forget Cyanogenmod for now.) What is the status of the required device drivers?
3. What are the current obstacles, hindering the release of CM9 (or any other derivative of AOSP) for this device? As far as I know, Nozomi was released in 2012.02, ~4 months ago. ICS was released in 2011.10, ~8 months ago. Official ICS (Sony's version, with Timescape) is rolling out about now; CM9 is not yet released. I wonder what is taking so long?
(Please understand that I really, literally wonder: I am not demanding anything, and I am not trying to offend or accuse anyone; I am totally aware that I don't understand the process; I would like to have more information to understand what needs to be done. And since I am software engineer, and I am not afraid of getting my hand dirty, so eventually, I might end up helping with it...)
4. Do we have any information about Sony's plan for this device beyond ICS? Jelly Bean is coming up soon. Regardless of Sony's decision, when JB is released, I would like to run it on my device, as soon as possible. What are our prospects for porting JB to Nozomi? Is Sony going to help with porting the device drivers to the new kernel, is something like that would come up?
* * *
Thank you for explaining this:
Csillag
1) No one knows for sure, but I'm pretty sure that it's not game changing, judging by the progress me and Doomlord made on AOKP without any help from Sony (obviously).
2) You can try building Gingerbread, but no one cares, right? For ICS, see the next answer.
3) The most important problem is that we don't have the drivers/kernel sources, and there's not much motivation for building it from scratch considering the soon(ish) ICS release. There are leaks with files for so called 'brown' or developer devices, but they also don't give much because of different low-level software. So the state of things is that almost everything but wireless is working, but wireless doesn't work at all. That means data, calls and WiFi.
4) JellyBean will likely be a minor upgrade (4.1 that is) and there's nothing stopping Sony from releasing anything on the 4.x branch. When 5.0 comes, it will depend on the hardware requirements but I'd guess we're getting it too.
K900 said:
1) No one knows for sure,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How is that possible?
The FXP guys (bin4ry, jerpelea, etc) are here on these forums...
... did they have to swear secrecy, even about the circumstances?
but I'm pretty sure that it's not game changing, judging by the progress me and Doomlord made on AOKP without any help from Sony (obviously).
2) You can try building Gingerbread, but no one cares, right? For ICS, see the next answer.
3) The most important problem is that we don't have the drivers/kernel sources,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You mean we don't have the kernel sources for ICS, right? Because for GB, we do have something, in this thread... I guess I should ask this in the relevant thread, but has anybody determined the exact differences between this source and the stock ( 2.6.35 ? ) kernel this is based on? How many non-standard drivers are there? Do they come from Sony directly, or do they come from 3rd parties? I will need to look into this...
and there's not much motivation for building it from scratch considering the soon(ish) ICS release.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And according to past experience, how long does it take Sony to release the kernel for ICS, after the imminent official ICS release?
There are leaks with files for so called 'brown' or developer devices, but they also don't give much because of different low-level software. So the state of things is that almost everything but wireless is working, but wireless doesn't work at all. That means data, calls and WiFi.
4) JellyBean will likely be a minor upgrade (4.1 that is) and there's nothing stopping Sony from releasing anything on the 4.x branch. When 5.0 comes, it will depend on the hardware requirements but I'd guess we're getting it too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, that part sound good.
* * *
Thank you for explaining:
Csillag
csillag said:
How is that possible?
The FXP guys (bin4ry, jerpelea, etc) are here on these forums...
... did they have to swear secrecy, even about the circumstances?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't seen them tell anyone, and I've never seen them do anything that's not available for everyone else (thankfully).
csillag said:
You mean we don't have the kernel sources for ICS, right? Because for GB, we do have something, in this thread... I guess I should ask this in the relevant thread, but has anybody determined the exact differences between this source and the stock ( 2.6.35 ? ) kernel this is based on? How many non-standard drivers are there? Do they come from Sony directly, or do they come from 3rd parties? I will need to look into this...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are kernel sources for GB, the same ones from which the stock kernel was built. If you mean the upstream Linux kernel, it'll be a huge diff that's not so easy to port without datasheets (which we don't have) and actual understanding of how the hardware works. Speaking of drivers, I'm pretty sure you misunderstand the way Linux / Android 'drivers' work. Kernel-space drivers (modules) and userspace drivers (libraries and daemons) are two different things. They have to open source their kernels because Linus's tree ('official' Linux) is GPL, but the userspace parts are proprietary. ICS also brought many ABI changes, so just taking old libs and placing them in a new ROM often doesn't suffice.
csillag said:
And according to past experience, how long does it take Sony to release the kernel for ICS, after the imminent official ICS release?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It takes time, can't say how long really, but it shouldn't take too long because they know we want those sources.
K900 said:
I haven't seen them tell anyone, and I've never seen them do anything that's not available for everyone else (thankfully).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you seen them being explicitly asked about this?
(Because not saying anything because not being asked is completely different that refusing to reveal this info....)
There are kernel sources for GB, the same ones from which the stock kernel was built. If you mean the upstream Linux kernel,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, that was what I have meant when I wrote "stock". Now I see that it was ambiguous wording...
it'll be a huge diff
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's sad.
I was hoping for finding only some added drivers, plus some small configuration changes elsewhere.
that's not so easy to port without datasheets
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
obviously
(which we don't have)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We don't have it, but the "official" FreeXperia team might, or they might be able to ask for it. This is exactly the kind of information I am trying to find about their collaboration with Sony...
and actual understanding of how the hardware works. Speaking of drivers, I'm pretty sure you misunderstand the way Linux / Android 'drivers' work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, actually I get that part. (I am exclusively using Linux for about 13 years now, and I have also done some kernel hacks earlier.) But maybe my wording was ambiguous again...
Kernel-space drivers (modules) and userspace drivers (libraries and daemons) are two different things. They have to open source their kernels because Linus's tree ('official' Linux) is GPL,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, that does not stop some vendors (like NVidia) to ship binary kernel modules, so I would not be too surprised to find even binary kernel modules bundled with the code. But if they are open source, that that's great.
but the userspace parts are proprietary.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did not know the devices require userspace parts. I was assuming that the kernel modules implement standard linux device interfaces; for example cameras are simply accessible via v4l[2], the modem is a character device, etc...
...so you say this is not the situation, and besides the kernel modules, they require custom user-space parts for operation, right?
ICS also brought many ABI changes, so just taking old libs and placing them in a new ROM often doesn't suffice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, that part is clean.
It takes time, can't say how long really, but it shouldn't take too long because they know we want those sources.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, you say that it's a totally possible situation that we need to wait for several further months until we can get access to the kernel sources, and build proper CM9, right?
Unfortunately, this is exactly what I would like to avoid.
Maybe I should just stick to Galaxy Nexus, in spite of the older hardware...
Thank you for explaining:
Csillag
csillag said:
Have you seen them being explicitly asked about this?
(Because not saying anything because not being asked is completely different that refusing to reveal this info....)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They tend to ignore such questions. PM me if you want my personal opinion, I'll try to stick to the facts here.
csillag said:
Yes, that was what I have meant when I wrote "stock". Now I see that it was ambiguous wording...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nevermind.
csillag said:
That's sad.
I was hoping for finding only some added drivers, plus some small configuration changes elsewhere.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They add some stuff, but they also change stuff internally. Tweaks and patches and many different things to get the best performance on this specific board. CAF has a generic msm-3.0 kernel, but that's not as customized. And we're not really waiting for the kernelspace here.
csillag said:
We don't have it, but the "official" FreeXperia team might, or they might be able to ask for it. This is exactly the kind of information I am trying to find about their collaboration with Sony...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Such things are very, very strongly NDA protected. That's Qualcomm's secret sauce, and it wouldn't be secret any more if they gave datasheets to the community.
csillag said:
No, actually I get that part. (I am exclusively using Linux for about 13 years now, and I have also done some kernel hacks earlier.) But maybe my wording was ambiguous again...
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Nevermind
csillag said:
Well, that does not stop some vendors (like NVidia) to ship binary kernel modules, so I would not be too surprised to find even binary kernel modules bundled with the code. But if they are open source, that that's great.
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Actually what NVIDIA does is ship a GPL'ed kernel module whose only function is to set up an interface through which the userspace (libGL) can talk to the hardware. So their kernel module is open source, but all the magic happens in the proprietary userspace.
csillag said:
I did not know the devices require userspace parts. I was assuming that the kernel modules implement standard linux device interfaces; for example cameras are simply accessible via v4l[2], the modem is a character device, etc...
...so you say this is not the situation, and besides the kernel modules, they require custom user-space parts for operation, right?
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Android has a HAL of its own, so mostly it's about HAL modules, libGL and libril (Radio Interface Layer) to talk to the modem. And here is where many hardware vendors pull an NVIDIA.
csillag said:
So, you say that it's a totally possible situation that we need to wait for several further months until we can get access to the kernel sources, and build proper CM9, right?
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No, the kernel isn't that much of a problem. If we have to wait for too long, we'll just take CodeAurora msm-3.0 and port it which shouldn't be too hard cause it's as generic as possible.
csillag said:
Maybe I should just stick to Galaxy Nexus, in spite of the older hardware...
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If you want AOSP now, you should go with the GNex. But the XPS is a nice phone, and the prospects with AOSP are good. Also would be nice to have someone more experienced with Linux (I'm just a student here) on the team/forums. If you get the XPS, PM me or Doomlord and I hope you'll help get AOKP running
Note, I'm a noob when it comes to android development, but I fail to give up on this phone.
We have cyanogenmod 7 up and running, with HWA, camcorder, lapdock, usb host capabilities. The drivers for this are open source (I assume, because it is officially supported by the CM devs up to v7, and if not, motorola has release the sources up to GB). Other phones have had the same type of deal, but they have had drivers developed for them.
ICS was leaked for the GSM Atrix 4G and everything was functional (with a few freezes and force quits in between). What's stopping us from using what they have?
I remember Cybik stating he had the ICS leak running on the Photon with some special sauce but was not allowed to speak of it or release it. I'd say the info is out there to run ICS & JB on our devices but everyone is afraid to release it as I think its code from Motorola and don't want to be sued. I believe our drivers are more complicated and it really helps to have source code to start with to help out. Who knows maybe we have an unknown/known Dev that will crack the code someday. By the sound of it probably not
KillerKellerjr said:
I remember Cybik stating he had the ICS leak running on the Photon with some special sauce but was not allowed to speak of it or release it. I'd say the info is out there to run ICS & JB on our devices but everyone is afraid to release it as I think its code from Motorola and don't want to be sued. I believe our drivers are more complicated and it really helps to have source code to start with to help out. Who knows maybe we have an unknown/known Dev that will crack the code someday. By the sound of it probably not
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Thanks for the heads up! Have any ideas of how to contact him?
Good news guys.
The 3.4 kernel sources are avaliable: http://www.htcdev.com/devcenter/downloads
The petition;:
Hello everybody!
As some of you know, I already started to work on CM10.1, but i stuck while HTC don't share the 3.4.0 JB kernel sources.
The kernel licensed under GNU GPL, but HTC violate this license. 3.4.0 JB kernel released about 2 months ago, but they didn't share the sources yet. I tried to talk with them, but they didn't help me. Now i would like to ask you for help. I hope, if you help me, and we fight together, we will get the sources and I can make a fine CyanogenMod 10.1.
Please help us with these steps:
1. step:
Sign and share this petition: http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/htc-desire-x-protou-kernel-source.html
2. step:
Send this letter for HTC here: http://www.htc.com/us/contact/email/
Please select the United States as your country, because in some country they can't help us.
So the letter: (Thanks for @ekulnitsua)
Dear HTC,
We appreciate the good quality, look and feel and the design of HTC smartphone products. That’s why our developers have created many ROMs for the phone with the Ice Cream Sandwich (4.0) Kernel source code, but currently our developers are left unable to continue further.
An official HTC Desire X (codenamed proto) Jelly Bean (4.1.1) OTA (Over-The-Air) update was released almost two months ago on the 27th of March, 2013, and subsequently updated and rolled out throughout the Desire X userbase. The htcdev.com website, however, has still not been updated with the matching kernel source.
As we are sure you are aware, Android is an open-platform and is based on the GNU/Linux Kernel. The Linux kernel is licensed under GNU General Public License v2 or GPL (http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-2.0.html), which, as such, means that you are legally obliged to release the source code for any derivative work within a reasonable time frame.
This, however, is not just a legal obligation; developers are working hard to bring new ROMs and continue support to your devices, which many of your customers are eager to use. By releasing the kernel source code you can improve our experiences with the device and with HTC as a company. The very openness of Android is intended to draw many people and by withholding kernel source code you are ultimately alienating your customers who may move on to purchase devices made by a different company (e.g. a Google Nexus device with pure and newest Android).
We appreciate that you have made a commitment to aid us in the development of firmware by allowing for the unlocking of the bootloader, but without the Kernel sources such gestures remain severely hampered. Similarly, we are grateful that you are continuing to support the Desire X and it’s community, but we would all be happier if your continued support was not only directed at your customers, but also in the spirit of Linux and as required by copyright law.
Our petition: gopetition.com/petitions/htc-desire-x-protou-kernel-source/signatures.html
XDA-Developers link: forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2288883
Contact e-mail: [email protected] (Attila Tóth "atis112" XDA-Developers Recognized Developer)
Yours Sincerely,
The xda-developers community.
This letter was written and is signed by the xda-developers community.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
3. step
Wait
Thank you.
atis112
I appreciate everything thing you've done so far and everything you will do, and I'll be very happy to help.
These kind of letters are my speciality. I'll draft something now so we can all send them across...
How about something like this (VERY heavily based on the Desire S letter):
Dear HTC,
We appreciate the good quality, look and feel and the design of HTC smartphone products. That’s why our developers have created many ROMs for the phone with the Ice Cream Sandwich (4.0) Kernel source code, but currently our developers are left unable to continue further.
An official HTC Desire X (codenamed proto) Jelly Bean (4.1.1) OTA (Over-The-Air) update was released almost two months ago on the 27th of March, 2013, and subsequently updated and rolled out throughout the Desire X userbase. The htcdev.com website, however, has still not been updated with the matching kernel source.
As we are sure you are aware, Android is an open-platform and is based on the GNU/Linux Kernel. The Linux kernel is licensed under GNU General Public License v2 or GPL (http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-2.0.html), which, as such, means that you are legally obliged to release the source code for any derivative work within a reasonable time frame.
This, however, is not just a legal obligation; developers are working hard to bring new ROMs and continue support to your devices, which many of your customers are eager to use. By releasing the kernel source code you can improve our experiences with the device and with HTC as a company. The very openness of Android is intended to draw many people and by withholding kernel source code you are ultimately alienating your customers who may move on to purchase devices made by a different company (e.g. a Google Nexus device with pure and newest Android).
We appreciate that you have made a commitment to aid us in the development of firmware by allowing for the unlocking of the bootloader, but without the Kernel sources such gestures remain severely hampered. Similarly, we are grateful that you are continuing to support the Desire X and it’s community, but we would all be happier if your continued support was not only directed at your customers, but also in the spirit of Linux and as required by copyright law.
Yours Sincerely,
The xda-developers community.
This letter was written and is signed by the xda-developers community.
(ok, I've finished tweaking now, that should be it)
Well written ekulnitsua, I hope that it will make them worry about this problem. I would wait for a reply and then (if they won't share kernel sources) report to GNU.
They haven't even released JB rom worldwide so dont expect kernel sources to come so fast.. They will release it when JB has reached to all the parts of the world.
Renowned companies like HTC usually comply with the licenses. They have a good image. Just wait for some time...
@deathnotice01 we need ur skill here
Just sharing my Idea Peace
Dear HTC,
First of all Good Day! I have used HTC Devices since 2011 and I have liked the way you guys made HTC Sense and all the components that make your devices run better than others. Starting from Froyo to Jelly Bean I have an HTC Device. A few weeks ago my friend received an OTA (Over the Air Update) for JellyBean (Android 4.1.1) and HTC Sense 4+ this update was great! it made the device smoother and cleaner and more battery efficient, even though there were some "minor" bugs this update stood out and made me more proud of my HTC Desire X, obviously this was better than Ice Cream Sandwich which came stock on the Desire X, I wrote this letter to ask you guys to please update the Kernel Sources for Jelly Bean which came with the new 3.4 kernel if Iam not mistaken.
I'am sure that you guys are aware, Android is an an open source operating system (OS) based on the GNU/Linux Kernel. he Linux kernel is licensed under GNU General Public License v2 or GPL (http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-2.0.html), which, as such, means that you are legally obliged to release the source code for any derivative work within a reasonable time frame.
This however is only a request. Developers are working hard to make new ROMs for the HTC Desire X and continue support to your wonderful device. By releasing the kernel source code you can improve user experience to your device and help developers in the process.
We appreciate the things that you have done for your devices and maintaining them by series of updates and making them better everytime.
But without the Kernel sources such gestures remain severely hampered. Similarly, we are grateful that you are continuing to support the Desire X and it’s community, but we would all be happier if your continued support was not only directed at your customers, but also in the spirit of Linux and as required by copyright law.
Yours Sincerely,
The xda-developers community.
This letter was written and is signed by the xda-developers community.
Just sharing though, I was supposed to send this but I should post it here first I have re-written some sentences from the 2nd post so please don't be mad and sorry for my crappy English if HTC would not release these sources Zombies will eat them alive XD
prototype-U said:
They haven't even released JB rom worldwide so dont expect kernel sources to come so fast.. They will release it when JB has reached to all the parts of the world.
Renowned companies like HTC usually comply with the licenses. They have a good image. Just wait for some time...
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Thumbs Down
Been waiting for too long man. 45 days was the promise, and its been near 60 days. And there isnt even a SUPPORTIVE ANNOUNCEMENT that it will come. Why cant they even make an OFFICIAL STATEMENT, just to calm our nerves. Thats very bad image they are making in eyes of good developers like atis112 and others.
neXus PRIME said:
Thumbs Down
Been waiting for too long man. 45 days was the promise, and its been near 60 days. And there isnt even a SUPPORTIVE ANNOUNCEMENT that it will come. Why cant they even make an OFFICIAL STATEMENT, just to calm our nerves. Thats very bad image they are making in eyes of good developers like atis112 and others.
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Click to collapse
I am really patient.. We will definitely get it in future.
neXus PRIME said:
Thumbs Down
Been waiting for too long man. 45 days was the promise, and its been near 60 days. And there isnt even a SUPPORTIVE ANNOUNCEMENT that it will come. Why cant they even make an OFFICIAL STATEMENT, just to calm our nerves. Thats very bad image they are making in eyes of good developers like atis112 and others.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
I think so too. Why should they share their sources now if we don't complain? We should decide. Either make only one letter for the whole community, or as many letters as possible so that they'll have enough to read.
Sent from my HTC Desire X using xda premium
dansou901 said:
+1
I think so too. Why should they share their sources now if we don't complain? We should decide. Either make only one letter for the whole community, or as many letters as possible so that they'll have enough to read.
Sent from my HTC Desire X using xda premium
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Well personally HTC would not care for our letters anyway because look at this OTA? NeXus PRIME is right 45 days is promised to spread the update world wide its been 60 days and still nothing I have also done the same thing for the Desire C users ( I was supposed to buy that if i never knew HTC has a stock of DXs ) and they never responded But those kernel sources would be awesome
But its worth a shot
Peace dont flame me XD
And what should I put in the letter its asking for my full name should I put XDA-Developers? Or my name? thanks
Well ... released in all countries or not , it's still released out there and it's licensed under GPL . The product is officially out there but the sources are not . It's not like it's in a beta test or anything , at least not officially . A release has been made , regardless of its bugs , and the kernel sources should have been provided as well . At least that's the way I see it
Also , we should first wait for a response from hTC before reporting them to GNU . Maybe hTC still have some arguments & reasons for not releasing it . Maybe the cleaning lady didn't go through all the code xD
I'm really disappointed to see how such a promissing device as the DX has so little ROM-wise development . It's wierd because hTC seems to be quite the developer-friendly company , unlike Samsung for example .
This was my first hTC and even though I'm really liking the overall look , feel & performance of the device , I really , really don't like Sense xD
There's really no point mincing words and playing nice: don't think they wouldn't come down on your heads if you used some propriety HTC code / design - Beautiful widgets are a case in point.
The whole idea of Android is that it's open source, anti-copyright, a stark contrast to the world of apple & microsoft and withholding sources is completely contrary to this philosophy.
Agreed though, I think we send this letter (or variations of it, if you're not happy about the strength of the language) wait a reasonable amount of time and then report it if nothing has happened / no reasonable reply is received.
ekulnitsua said:
There's really no point mincing words and playing nice: don't think they wouldn't come down on your heads if you used some propriety HTC code / design - Beautiful widgets are a case in point.
The whole idea of Android is that it's open source, anti-copyright, a stark contrast to the world of apple & microsoft and withholding sources is completely contrary to this philosophy.
Agreed though, I think we send this letter (or variations of it, if you're not happy about the strength of the language) wait a reasonable amount of time and then report it if nothing has happened / no reasonable reply is received.
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I am really happy with the strength of the language. We have to show them what we want and that they are doing something wrong, so...
I think someone who has a higher position should write the letter. As a "normal" person we won't succeed.
Sent from my LT28h using xda app-developers app
Rebekka_Sun said:
I think someone who has a higher position should write the letter. As a "normal" person we won't succeed.
Sent from my LT28h using xda app-developers app
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If we act as a big community, it should work too... But if someone of us would know someone working there, this could help...
This is what we sgy users did..
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1869565
The xda-developers must have a founder! Why don't we ask this person? I mean the developer of this site will get more "reaction" than some "members". Or why don't we act on Twitter, facebook, instagramm, ... There are so much people even on Facebook. We'll have a chance.
Sent from my LT28h using xda app-developers app
Rebekka_Sun said:
The xda-developers must have a founder! Why don't we ask this person? I mean the developer of this site will get more "reaction" than some "members". Or why don't we act on Twitter, facebook, instagramm, ... There are so much people even on Facebook. We'll have a chance.
Sent from my LT28h using xda app-developers app
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You are high.
Sent from my HTC Desire X using xda app-developers app
prototype-U said:
You are high.
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My thoughts exactly...
Sent from my HTC Desire X using xda app-developers app
prototype-U said:
This is what we sgy users did..
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1869565
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Click to collapse
Samsung is more developer friendly than HTC + they release their kernel source immidiately without people asking them
Thank you @ekulnitsua and @The Android Manual and everybody who support us. I already made an online petition too, I hope we will got a lot of sign, and we can write enough letter for HTC, and they will take it seriously. I will update the OP soon. I will add the link to the petition in the message, the link to this thread and if it isn't problem for you I add my email too, and so they can contact with me if they want, and i will share their message with you.
Thank you
atis112
Why is there such alot more development and forum activity on for example the Xiaomi Redmi phones than on this one? The p9000 got excellent hardware for a great price but the community is really small somehow and the software is still buggy? How come? Do you think its still worth to wait for more activity and responses from developers for this phone or is it a "dead cow" already and better to swap to another brand to get support from developers on for example CM or RR?
furchtlos76 said:
Why is there such alot more development and forum activity on for example the Xiaomi Redmi phones than on this one? The p9000 got excellent hardware for a great price but the community is really small somehow and the software is still buggy? How come? Do you think its still worth to wait for more activity and responses from developers for this phone or is it a "dead cow" already and better to swap to another brand to get support from developers on for example CM or RR?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Development for this device is far from dead, we have a stable device tree for building custom ROM's, CM and RR ROM's already released, a fully source built TWRP and work on custom kernels is just beginning. That's a lot more development already than an awful lot of devices see in their entire lifetime.
I would rather say it has just begun. Development for this MTK chip is not a matter of course and the outcome so far is pretty exciting. This opens the way for other devs who work on other devices with the same chipset. It's just that many devs simply prefer Snapdragon which leads to higher dev count on those devices, faster bug fixing etc. I am pretty excited what the future brings not only for our P9000 but MTK devices in general as far as flashing and development goes.
Development is dead? What gave you that impression? For starter this phone already has a working twrp recovery. That is more then some Chinese phones get in their whole lifetime. Kernels is the area of development next and elephone has been kind to release the source code for the phone. Again more then most developers even bother with.
well, it got twrp,root and xposed working. More than some name brand phones that stop official updates after a year.
But i admit it is easier to update my old nexus 4 with cm downloader. Just click the update notification and latest cm gets installed.
It is also getting nougat in November hopefully
mangoman said:
well, it got twrp,root and xposed working. More than some name brand phones that stop official updates after a year.
But i admit it is easier to update my old nexus 4 with cm downloader. Just click the update notification and latest cm gets installed.
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That's because Nexus 4 is an officially supported device by CM.
It's very difficult for MTK devices in general to get official CM support because we have to patch some things in the framework to make camera, RIL (mobile data) etc working.
The official stance is that these things should be done in device tree as no proprietary code is allowed in CM framework.
Initially when our patches were submitted to CM Gerrit they were rejected because of this, Leskal is working on minimising the patch work needed and getting more of the generic MTK code accepted on Gerrit.
Not helped by the fact that MTK themselves aren't helpful or willing to support developers as it doesn't suit their replace and force upgrade business model. Technically how they operate and their refusal to release official development tools or code is a violation of the open sources nature of Android. But google has yet to do anything serious about it. As far as I know, any code we have is from reverse engineering and leaks.
Android-UK said:
Not helped by the fact that MTK themselves aren't helpful or willing to support developers as it doesn't suit their replace and force upgrade business model. Technically how they operate and their refusal to release official development tools or code is a violation of the open sources nature of Android. But google has yet to do anything serious about it. As far as I know, any code we have is from reverse engineering and leaks.
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Not true, I've met up with MTK engineers at DevCon and they do actually encourage development, they just seem to lately be wanting to protect their HAL's and drivers which as pointed out on the XDA portal article about this is sort of ridiculous. But then again it's proprietary code and not under the GPL so whilst we can say it's stupid we can't really contest it, it's their choice.
The code we have is completely official and not gotten from reverse engineering.
Jonny said:
Not true, I've met up with MTK engineers at DevCon and they do actually encourage development, they just seem to lately be wanting to protect their HAL's and drivers which as pointed out on the XDA portal article about this is sort of ridiculous. But then again it's proprietary code and not under the GPL so whilst we can say it's stupid we can't really contest ot, it's their choice.
The code we have is completely official and not gotten from reverse engineering.
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I have seen many a leak before. But OK they support developing but at the same time they don't help provide any decent tools for troubleshooting or development.
Android-UK said:
I have seen many a leak before. But OK they support developing but at the same time they don't help provide any decent tools for troubleshooting or development.
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Click to collapse
Why do they need to? There's already great tools around for that, I know Qualcomm certainly used to provide a package for debugging the lower system levels but it wasn't widely available as the lower levels of the device booting process are not needed to be modified outside of OEM labs and manufacturing.
The lowest level we need is kernel debugging and the kernel already provides that via last_kmsg and desmsg etc, all other tools are already available as part of ADB, logcat etc. There are also a plethora of other tools readily available.
I would call it pretty dead now Well, if not dead then dying.
Let's hope for a Christmas special