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I was just thinking about something. Is it really a fair comparison between an asynchronous dual core and a conventional dual core such as the Tegra or the OMAP4? We all know how everyone loves to compare benchmarks on phones. Also, we all know that the 3d does horrible on Quadrant scores. Is this because of the type of cpu we have? If it is... Is it really fair to even try to compare them?
My thinking is that, if both of our cores ran at the same speed all of the time, our cpu would dominate everything on benchmarks. Am I wrong in thinking that? Is there any way we would truly know?
Ps. Hope this isn't dumb thinking. If it is, please just state why and move on. I am NOT trying to start any flame war or troll thread. This is a 100% completely sincere question.
Thanks in advance!
Sent by my supercharged dual core from the 3rd dimension.
Benchmark scores mean **** anyways. I don't know why people insist on using them. If the phone runs well, it runs well
Tad slower mostly because its based on a similar ARM cortex A8 design. Those other ones, like galaxy s2 or other SOC's are based on the newer cortex A9 designs. Been analyzed several times over anandtech or other sites. Besides those benchmarks are not dual core at all. So we are apples to apples. Difference is in designs. If you compare two cpus clocked at same speeds (snapdragon/A8 vs A9) A9 will come ahead.
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I understand that benchmarks don't mean anything. I just want to know if the fact that our cpu is asynchronous had anything to do with the exceptionally low scores compared to other devices.
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I'd chalk it up to the fact that the most recent OMAP and Exynos are based on A9 while our scorpion cores are heavily modified A8 designs by qualcomm.
Ours are in between A8 and A9.
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I briefly und understand the difference between A9 and A8 based chips but I personally think the current snapdragon in the shooter (msm8660?) is a much superior chip then the tegra 2. I got tiered of my og evo so I bought the shooter off contract from a buddy for cheap and plan to get the nexus prime which I belive will land at sprint before January (contract up). The rumors are that will use OMAP 4660 clocked at 1.5. Just rumors I know. But how will that compare to the snapdragon in terms of speed and battery?
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ROM synergy 318 OC 1.8 (2.3.3 base) literally SMOKED the sgs2, was hitting 4000+ with quadrant advanced, but yeah, scores mean nothing. We should have OC again soon, and get nice shiny scores again.
From what I have been reading, A8, A9, v6, v7 or whatever there is now doesn't really equate to any performance gains. The companies license from ARM or they can create their own SoC based on ARM, so its kind of like saying there's an Intel Core 2 Duo and then a AMD Athlon X2, but they are both based on x86 architecture. There's a lot of confusion regarding the whole A8 A9 terminology, so honestly, I don't think it matters much what ARM revision or whatever our SoC is using in the Evo 3D.
What I would really like to know is if the Asynchronous part of it is making a difference in the scores. Does anyone know this? That is the biggest question I have.
Hard to really say which processor is more powerful; but at this stage in smartphones all the dual cores seem to be powerful enough to where it doesn't matter. Asynchronous vs the other guys may be a different story though. Asynchronous cores means each core can be at a different clock speed, so when we get the next version to android (in October or November) and we get to take full advantage of dual core support we may have significantly better battery life than them.
So to elaborate on what you want i guess: Asynchronous cores has nothing to do with the benchmarks because these benchmarks are only running one core anyway (i'm pretty sure).
sprinttouch666 said:
Hard to really say which processor is more powerful; but at this stage in smartphones all the dual cores seem to be powerful enough to where it doesn't matter. Asynchronous vs the other guys may be a different story though. Asynchronous cores means each core can be at a different clock speed, so when we get the next version to android (in October or November) and we get to take full advantage of dual core support we may have significantly better battery life than them.
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Ok. Now, what about performance wise? Will we be at an advantage or disadvantage?
lyon21 said:
Ok. Now, what about performance wise? Will we be at an advantage or disadvantage?
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Check this out if you are worried about performance. I think this pretty much sums up how powerful the new snapdragon chipset
http://www.qualcomm.com/blog/2011/04/27/next-gen-snapdragon-dual-core-mdp
lyon21 said:
What I would really like to know is if the Asynchronous part of it is making a difference in the scores. Does anyone know this? That is the biggest question I have.
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Depends... If you are benchmarking with a non multithreaded app like quadrant, it doesn't matter as you're running on a single core on both. A9 will be faster. And if you're running a multithreaded benchmark that fully uses both cores then the "asynchronous" thing goes out of play as you're using both cores on both devices.
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il Duce said:
ROM synergy 318 OC 1.8 (2.3.3 base) literally SMOKED the sgs2, was hitting 4000+ with quadrant advanced, but yeah, scores mean nothing. We should have OC again soon, and get nice shiny scores again.
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Well, then if you overclock an A9 to 1.8 ghz you're back to square one and A9 is still faster. I think Qualcomm has already announced their roadmap and a A9 killer is on its way. I think its a quad core with adreno 3xx (will also have dual core with updated architecture to beat A9, but then ARM is coming up with the A15 Hahaha, the never ending race)
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sn0b0ard said:
From what I have been reading, A8, A9, v6, v7 or whatever there is now doesn't really equate to any performance gains. The companies license from ARM or they can create their own SoC based on ARM, so its kind of like saying there's an Intel Core 2 Duo and then a AMD Athlon X2, but they are both based on x86 architecture. There's a lot of confusion regarding the whole A8 A9 terminology, so honestly, I don't think it matters much what ARM revision or whatever our SoC is using in the Evo 3D.
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Yes it matters, like your comparison, each chip has new sets of instructions, pipelines and optimization. Clock for clock, and like other guy said our snapdragons are between an A8 and A9 and the A9 is simply faster. Ours is an older architecture. By no means a slouch, but its the truth.
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jamexman said:
Yes it matters, like your comparison, each chip has new sets of instructions, pipelines and optimization. Clock for clock, and like other guy said our snapdragons are between an A8 and A9 and the A9 is simply faster. Ours is an older architecture. By no means a slouch, but its the truth.
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See, here's the thing. Qualcomm doesn't just go stock ARM architecture. They licensed the technology and made their own snapdragon chipset. Is the snapdragon chipset family old? Yes, it has been around for a while. Is the chipset that is in the Evo 3D old? Not really. It was just developed by Qualcomm relatively recently and expands on their existing, proven QSD chipset. This is like comparing apples to oranges, they are just two different SoCs. If you were to take an absolutely stock ARMv9 and put it against an absolutely stock ARMv7/8, then yes, the ARMv9 obviously is going to win, but these companies try and market that their CPUs are one version higher than others, when in all reality, they modify the hell out of the ARM architecture to make their chipsets.
sn0b0ard said:
Check this out if you are worried about performance. I think this pretty much sums up how powerful the new snapdragon chipset
http://www.qualcomm.com/blog/2011/04/27/next-gen-snapdragon-dual-core-mdp
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Totally off topic Sorrrry!!!
Just followed the link above and WOW!! how can we con Qualcom into giving us a copy of that home launcher they use with the live wallpaper as well..HMMMMM
jamexman said:
Well, then if you overclock an A9 to 1.8 ghz you're back to square one and A9 is still faster. I think Qualcomm has already announced their roadmap and a A9 killer is on its way. I think its a quad core with adreno 3xx (will also have dual core with updated architecture to beat A9, but then ARM is coming up with the A15 Hahaha, the never ending race)
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It is much harder to push a A9 based SOC to 1.8 Ghz compared to the A8 based MSM8660. Clock per clock, A9 will be faster. The A9 has greater IPC and a shorter pipeline, but this also prevents the A9 from running at as high frequencies as an A8 based SOC. How many 1.8 Ghz Exynos chips do you see? In some regards the MSM8660 clearly beats some A9 based SOCs like the Tegra 2 which even lacks hardware support for NEON instructions. Snapdragons have also always traditionally had high floating point performance too.
Also there is no competition between Qualcomm and ARM. Qualcomm simply licenses designs from ARM and then customizes them for its own needs.
I picked up my Galaxy SII after seeing the disappointing specs on the iPhone 4S. But today I read preliminary benchmarks and it smokes the SII.
Sorry, unable to post a link yet.
How can a 800 mhz cpu beat the SII's 1.2 ghz processor?
I am confused. Am I missing something?
026TB4U said:
I picked up my Galaxy SII after seeing the disappointing specs on the iPhone 4S. But today I read preliminary benchmarks and it smokes the SII.
Sorry, unable to post a link yet.
How can a 800 mhz cpu beat the SII's 1.2 ghz processor?
I am confused. Am I missing something?
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Because benchmarks don't mean jack ****.
Look at how Quadrant scores are all over the damned place with no correspondence to actual usability.
its all about the software. I expect some good gains when moving over to ICS.
Edit, corrected iPhone processor family name.
Trying to benchmark across different operating systems and hardware is not easy to accomplish, but I can tell you that an (Apple A5) A9 800 mhz duel core Samsung processor is not faster than (Exynos) A9 1.2 ghz duel core Samsung processor.
Yes both phones processors are made by Samsung
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Entropy512 said:
Because benchmarks don't mean jack ****.
Look at how Quadrant scores are all over the damned place with no correspondence to actual usability.
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+1 10 char
dayv said:
Trying to benchmark across different operating systems and hardware is not easy to accomplish, but I can tell you that an A5 800 mhz duel core Samsung processor is not faster than A9 1.2 ghz duel core Samsung processor.
Yes both phones processors are made by Samsung
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This is true but your wording is a bit confusing. An "Apple A5" processor is a dual core a9 processor with a powervr 543mp2 gpu. An A5 processor is an Arm core made for ultra low power. Basically both the apple a5 and the exynos processor have have the same processor architecture but there are many other factors that can influence performance like the GPU, memory, cache, decoders, ect. In this case i think the main discrepancy will be the software thats so different between the two.
footballrunner800 said:
This is true but your wording is a bit confusing. An "Apple A5" processor is a dual core a9 processor with a powervr 543mp2 gpu. An A5 processor is an Arm core made for ultra low power. Basically both the apple a5 and the exynos processor have have the same processor architecture but there are many other factors that can influence performance like the GPU, memory, cache, decoders, ect. In this case i think the main discrepancy will be the software thats so different between the two.
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I did not doubt that both processors were of the same type and architecture, but I did not realize that apple A5 was just an apple brand and that both processors were A9. Both are still Samsung family processor one clocked at 800 mhz one clocked at 1.2 GHz
Thank you for the correction
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The iPhone is probably utilizing the processor to it's full extent, while Gingerbread (and Android in general) does a terrible job of utilizing the power of the hardware.
ICS should see a nice performance increase on dual cores.
OP is probably refering to the benchmark for gaming. It's not the processor that lacks on GS2. If iPhone 4S does come with the same A5 as iPad2, its GPU will smoke Mali400 in GS2 in almost every benchmark test (in most benchmarks, it is twice as fast as Mali400). Just checkout the review of Internationl GS2 by Anandtech.com with benchmark comparison of GS2 vs iPad2 and other smartphones. It is not the Quadrant or Linkpack benchmark but rather the professional benchmarks measuring fill rates and triangle thoughputs etc.
Processor performance wise, it is probably a wash because both are based on the same ARM design.
Although I do agree that benchmarks are just benchmarks, I am still surprised.
Is it true that Gingerbread only utilizes one cpu? And will Ice Cream Sandwich utilize both?
And BTW, I am by no means an Apple fanboy. I had been waiting for this phone to come out to replace my dinosaur BB 9000, so I wouldn't have to get an iPhone and deal with iTunes.
iOS5 > gingerbread. Sad but true.
Hope ICS comes out soon. It seems to be on par from what I hear.
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I think I saw the benchmark in question - it was a GPU-heavy benchmark for a workload that most users won't experience 99% of the time. (It was a GPU-bound OpenGL benchmark. The GPU of the iPhone 4S IS faster than ours for 3D work - but unless you do lots of 3D gaming, it's wasted. Also, 3D is kind of a waste on a 3.5" screen.)
Apple has an extremely long history of misleading the public with selective benchmarking. Back in the Pentium II or III days, they claimed one of their machines was twice as fast as an Intel machine clocked at least 50% higher. While I agree that MHz isn't everything, there's a limit to that. In that case, on a single Photoshop benchmark that was optimized for PowerPC by using AltiVec and running non-optimized on the Intel chip (despite an optimized MMX or SSE implementation being available), the Apple did better - and Apple used that to try and make users believe the machine was twice as fast for all workloads.
026TB4U said:
Is it true that Gingerbread only utilizes one cpu? And will Ice Cream Sandwich utilize both?
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It is true.
I guess the benchmarking was for the javascript using safari browser. So it's apple vs oranges. Also completely 2 different OS. Let's run quadrant if it's available for iOS the see how it handles. In the mean time enjoy the best and fastest smartphone currently in the market no matter what other says.
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It could be ten times faster than a GII, but it still has a 3.5" screen, and I-jail. My wife and kids have Iphone 4's and there is no way I would trade no matter how fast this new one is.
aintwaven said:
It could be ten times faster than a GII, but it still has a 3.5" screen, and I-jail. My wife and kids have Iphone 4's and there is no way I would trade no matter how fast this new one is.
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Except for the wife and kids part(I have neither) this. Very much this.
Just ran the SunSpider Javascript on CM7.1. Results seem to be quite a bit better than the ones I see posted on AnandTech. Obviously they were running the GS2 stock but I was surprised to see my numbers so low. Also did the GLBenchmark and while the Egypt was slower, the Pro was faster on CM7.1. Coin flip to me it seems...
Those are just plain synthetic benchmark, what does it mean for RL usage? not a damn thing.
You think all the fashionnista who's buying iphone 4s gonna care how fast their CPU are?
footballrunner800 said:
its all about the software. I expect some good gains when moving over to ICS.
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That's the problem with android; it is always wait for the next version of software, it'll be better then. How about making a good version now?
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arctia said:
iOS5 > gingerbread. Sad but true.
Hope ICS comes out soon. It seems to be on par from what I hear.
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Are you high and drunk?? As far as I'm aware, iOS5 is just playing catch up to Android. There isn't one feature that they implemented that hasn't already been introduced in Android since the Froyo days.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUEG7kQegSA&feature=share
Quick question. I was reading an article about the HTC One X. It supposedly will come with a tegra 3 quad core processor but not in the US. We will get a Snapdragon S4 dual core so it can have LTE.
Does this mean we are stuck with dual core Snapdragon's in the future? Why can't they add LTE to the Tegra 3? It seems like a pretty big difference in processors. If I were planning on getting the One X I would be pretty disappointed knowing there is a more powerful phone out there. Why do we get gypped compared to overseas??
I guess I'm just saying that there are a ton of different chips out there and I don't wanna be stuck with Snapdragon's forever just to have LTE.
SkizzMcNizz said:
Quick question. I was reading an article about the HTC One X. It supposedly will come with a tegra 3 quad core processor but not in the US. We will get a Snapdragon S4 dual core so it can have LTE.
Does this mean we are stuck with dual core Snapdragon's in the future? Why can't they add LTE to the Tegra 3? It seems like a pretty big difference in processors. If I were planning on getting the One X I would be pretty disappointed knowing there is a more powerful phone out there. Why do we get gypped compared to overseas??
I guess I'm just saying that there are a ton of different chips out there and I don't wanna be stuck with Snapdragon's forever just to have LTE.
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The S4 smokes the Tegra3 in just about every conceivable test. More cores ≠ better performance.
tekhna said:
The S4 smokes the Tegra3 in just about every conceivable test. More cores ≠ better performance.
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This. People have this notion that just because a CPU has more cores that it is going to perform better. That isn't always the case. It has to do with architecture.
tekhna said:
The S4 smokes the Tegra3 in just about every conceivable test. More cores ≠ better performance.
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Cores do help in more simultaneous tasks taking place though, no? So if you're running multiple tasks, the Tegra can handle more of a load than the S4 would be able to?
engsoccerfan said:
Cores do help in more simultaneous tasks taking place though, no? So if you're running multiple tasks, the Tegra can handle more of a load than the S4 would be able to?
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Sure, but as anandtech said:
"Qualcomm's strengths are clearly single/lightly threaded CPU performance as Krait is able to offer some significant steps forward in that department. Tegra 3 can hold onto an advantage in heavily threaded apps, but I'm not entirely convinced that in phones we'll see a lot of that."
Basically, sure, yeah, there's a theoretical advantage, but what are you doing on your phone that necessitates four cores? And even then, the S4 doesn't perform significantly better or worse on multithreaded tests than the Tegra3.
By the time you need a new phone, there'll be quad-core Qualcomm processors. I wouldn't worry, at all.
Sent from my bad**s mofo HTC Rezound
tekhna said:
Sure, but as anandtech said:
"Qualcomm's strengths are clearly single/lightly threaded CPU performance as Krait is able to offer some significant steps forward in that department. Tegra 3 can hold onto an advantage in heavily threaded apps, but I'm not entirely convinced that in phones we'll see a lot of that."
Basically, sure, yeah, there's a theoretical advantage, but what are you doing on your phone that necessitates four cores? And even then, the S4 doesn't perform significantly better or worse on multithreaded tests than the Tegra3.
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+1
It's like putting two engines in your car. It has the *potential* to go really fast, but unless your car is built to use two engines, it's not going to make any difference. Not the best example, I know. But it's simple.
As per the OP, we just don't have compatible LTE/Tegra3 combinations yet. Very bluntly, our LTE stuff sucks. (Which is why Apple passed on it with the 4S) Eventually, there will be an LTE modem that works with a quad-core chip, it's just not there right now. Like everyone else has said, in real world performance, you won't notice it anyway.
Nvidia is working on a Tegra 3 chipset with LTE built in I think I read.
Regardless, S4 is still a beast of a chip.
im glad the htc one isn't coming to verizon. it's stuff like this that makes our rezound outdated way before it's time. no one really "needs" a quad in a cell phone and im glad there isn't alot of quad core devices coming this year. both ces & mobile world congress were a big disappointment as far as im concerned.
IMO, the S4 dual core is an awesome chip. I am very skeptical about quad core battery performance. Due to technical advancements maybe they are superior. We will see soon enough.
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still no good with limited. if you're not doing heavy multithreaded work you won't see much difference plus 4 cores means more battery consumption vs dual
Tegra = fail. The market is doing a good job with over hyping dual core and quad core. Some people think it's almost necessary to have dual/quad socs , when other platforms like w7 run just fine on a single core.
isn't the second core on resound usually asleep a lot of the time unless needed? now you can have 3 cores taking a nap
lol.
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most dual core phones only use the second core as a back-up or for HDMI only
thus making it pointless to have quad-core phones at the moment i ran everything just fine on my Thunderbolt which was single core and it out performed my stock rezound.. and yes quad core i presume would be a battery drainer cuz dual cores don't really even have that good of battery life and single cores r the same
and snapdragon has quadcores already and they r in the midst of working on 8core chipsets but that wont be out till late 2013 early mid 2014 so stick with what u have
all good things take time
)
Comparing The Tegra 3 and the Snapdragon S4 is like comparing the AMD Bulldozer chips with the current Intel chips. They put more cores on a die and call it "The Fastest" but when the benchmarks start showing up it falls short of a lower end, more efficient chips. In theory more cores = more power, but in reality architectural is everything. All the hype from people being like "MOAR COREZ OMG FASTER" is a bunch of bull...
mighty_markus12 said:
im glad the htc one isn't coming to verizon. it's stuff like this that makes our rezound outdated way before it's time. no one really "needs" a quad in a cell phone and im glad there isn't alot of quad core devices coming this year. both ces & mobile world congress were a big disappointment as far as im concerned.
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CES and MWC are just teasers anyways. Did you see the Rezound, Nexus, Razr, Razr Maxx, Transformer Prime, Galaxy Note, etc at those events last year? Nope, you saw the Bionic which 7 months later was a disastrophy, lol.
Did veruzon say they weren't getting the one x? I know there is a new verizon htc phone on the road map.
I'm curious about the snapdragon s4 just because it has lte integrated.
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Well the One X has the same processor as my laptop 1.5 gh quad core. The only thing I think my computer really needs the quad cores for is intense games especially my wii emulator, which probably could run on One X since it has the same processor as my computer.
Ndaoud360 said:
Well the One X has the same processor as my laptop 1.5 gh quad core. The only thing I think my computer really needs the quad cores for is intense games especially my wii emulator, which probably could run on One X since it has the same processor as my computer.
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It's also pretty dependent on the GPU. Not sure what kind of graphics card your laptop has, but that has a pretty substantial effect on gaming.
The One X has a great dedicated GPU, but it's still a phone. Not sure if it can really match up to an actual computer's graphics card, but I've been wrong before.
Hi, newb here very confused about the (cpu) specs on this phone. I checked every where and am finding different results.
On the s3 main topic page, it clearly states "quad-core Exynos 4412 processor 1.40ghz". When I went to the store, and checked sprint's page, it says this phone has a 1.5ghz DUAL CORE processor. Either way, cant complain with a 1.5ghz dual core, considering its prob the fastest thing at the moment,
My (sprint) upgrade has been up since last year this time, and I have been waiting on something that will be future proof for the next 2 years, and I finally acted on it today. Lte, which I dont understand whether its way faster than 4g, but I know lte is prob the route to take.
1280p screen, can deal with that. Now, the quad core processor, which I know will prob have some major drain on the battery, til the Gods here make some really nice uv adjustments, disabling maybe 2 or 3 cores while phone is sleeping, and too much nothing that a bigger batt wont help, worse case scenario.
Now, im assuming games and apps will start being made to handle 4 cores, in the near future, maybe a year from now, so thats why a quad core would be extra handy, for future proofing.
So, my spidey senses tells me that different carriers have different specs? So, whats the true spec for the sprint version?
All the US models are dual core 1.5 GHz S4. The international model is quad core exynos 1.4 GHz. This forum is for international model I9300... There is a separate forum for US models
Thank God for pointing that out, im for certain, that wouldve been a guaranteed brick if I hadve start flashing things from this forum. Dude, I O U!!
I have only used dumb-phones until now and plan to get a smartphone.
I did a little surfing and found Adreno 320 is better than Mali 400 GPU and Qualcomm Snapdragons are better than Samsung Exynos, right?
But in real world they say Note 2 is considered better phone than Nexus 4. I don't understand this.
Different phones top in different benchmarks, and still some things like display quality are not considered in benchmarks i guess, right?
Now I haven't used any smartphone before, and the I would be using it for gaming or watching videos/movies only most of the time as I'm a student.
Which of these phones that I mentioned (all in 23-29,000 INR range) are better than others in reality?
Those who have used these phones or are techsavy might be able to guide me in making the right choice
Just found S3 in India has different specs than in US, Canada etc.
India: 1.4 Ghz Quad-core Exynos 4412,Mali-400,1GB
US: 1.5 Ghz Dual-core Snapdragon, Adreno 225,2GB
Which S3 is better?
sher_dil said:
I have only used dumb-phones until now and plan to get a smartphone.
I did a little surfing and found Adreno 320 is better than Mali 400 GPU and Qualcomm Snapdragons are better than Samsung Exynos, right?
But in real world they say Note 2 is considered better phone than Nexus 4. I don't understand this.
Different phones top in different benchmarks, and still some things like display quality are not considered in benchmarks i guess, right?
Now I haven't used any smartphone before, and the I would be using it for gaming or watching videos/movies only most of the time as I'm a student.
Which of these phones that I mentioned (all in 23-29,000 INR range) are better than others in reality?
Those who have used these phones or are techsavy might be able to guide me in making the right choice
Just found S3 in India has different specs than in US, Canada etc.
India: 1.4 Ghz Quad-core Exynos 4412,Mali-400,1GB
US: 1.5 Ghz Dual-core Snapdragon, Adreno 225,2GB
Which S3 is better?
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The US version is btr in this case. Based on wat is ur requirements. U dun multi task much so u dun nid tat much cores. And more ram is btr.
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