POP Email using 2gig in 20 days - T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S 5

My wife is using the touchwiz email app with a pop server and ssl enabled. Data usage has been through the roof. Under Settings it shows that she's used 2gig in the last 20 days for email alone.
I called T-Mobile and they tried to convince me this was normal and tried to put me on an unlimited plan. Wouldn't acknowledge that 2gig + per month is excessive for email.
Anyone have any idea what might be going on?

ppgregory said:
My wife is using the touchwiz email app with a pop server and ssl enabled. Data usage has been through the roof. Under Settings it shows that she's used 2gig in the last 20 days for email alone.
I called T-Mobile and they tried to convince me this was normal and tried to put me on an unlimited plan. Wouldn't acknowledge that 2gig + per month is excessive for email.
Anyone have any idea what might be going on?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did she download big attachments? Also, maybe think about turning the retrieval interval down. My email. NEVER uses anything close to that.
Sent from my SM-G900T using XDA Free mobile app

jjlean said:
Did she download big attachments? Also, maybe think about turning the retrieval interval down. My email. NEVER uses anything close to that.
Sent from my SM-G900T using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No big attachments. Its been consistently around 100mb give or take 20mb daily. She upgraded from the S3. I still have the phone and saw that she would use 65mb or so a month for email. Email settings on both are the same. Both set to check for email every 30minutes.
I just deleted the account and reinstalled to see if it makes a difference.

ppgregory said:
No big attachments. Its been consistently around 100mb give or take 20mb daily. She upgraded from the S3. I still have the phone and saw that she would use 65mb or so a month for email. Email settings on both are the same. Both set to check for email every 30minutes.
I just deleted the account and reinstalled to see if it makes a difference.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That should fix it.
What usually causes the problem is something gets stuck sending a message and will eat through data very fast.

Related

Stock messenger issue

Since updating to 2.1 I've had a few issues with the stock messenger.....a few times I've had send failed messages, then the recipient got the same text several times (lol) and lately I haven't been getting any notification of new texts until I actually open the messenger.
Is there something I can do to resolve this???
btw, I've looked for the stock 2.1 messenger apk around here, but I can't find it....can someone please provide me with a link
lightyear420 said:
Since updating to 2.1 I've had a few issues with the stock messenger.....a few times I've had send failed messages, then the recipient got the same text several times (lol) and lately I haven't been getting any notification of new texts until I actually open the messenger.
Is there something I can do to resolve this???
btw, I've looked for the stock 2.1 messenger apk around here, but I can't find it....can someone please provide me with a link
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You will find it here.
Thank you!!!!
lightyear420 said:
Since updating to 2.1 I've had a few issues with the stock messenger.....a few times I've had send failed messages, then the recipient got the same text several times (lol) and lately I haven't been getting any notification of new texts until I actually open the messenger.
Is there something I can do to resolve this???
btw, I've looked for the stock 2.1 messenger apk around here, but I can't find it....can someone please provide me with a link
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you AT&T? If so, I had the same problem, especially with long text and MMS sending pics. I believe it was a problem within the APN. I don't know exactly how, but now I have 2 APN'S and the problem seems to be solved. I have MEdia Net and MEdia Net MMS, which is the AT&T brand name for their browser/network. I have tested the every APN setting posted in the forums, and they are the only ones that deliver large pics and 4page texts consistantly. If you need the settings, post here.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
yeah, I am using AT&T....that is actually part of my issue, and the other part is that the notification doesn't show up sometimes until I actually open the messenger.
I've downloaded handcent, and re-installed conversations.apk (the 2.1 messenger) just in case, and so far so good, but I haven't tried a really long text or large pic yet...I'll do that and see what happens
lightyear420 said:
yeah, I am using AT&T....that is actually part of my issue, and the other part is that the notification doesn't show up sometimes until I actually open the messenger.
I've downloaded handcent, and re-installed conversations.apk (the 2.1 messenger) just in case, and so far so good, but I haven't tried a really long text or large pic yet...I'll do that and see what happens
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I found the notification problem was in my task killer. Set messaging to ignore fixed it for me.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
agentJBM said:
I found the notification problem was in my task killer. Set messaging to ignore fixed it for me.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We have discussed the task killer apps extensively here. And the consensus seems to be that they actually cause more harm than good.
batman_112 said:
We have discussed the task killer apps extensively here. And the consensus seems to be that they actually cause more harm than good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed if you just installed and use default settings, but if you take the time to hand set it up, it is a really useful app. Especially kill when screen off saves battery and data. I find I still have 30% battery on day 2 without charging. Without it my battery last 1 day max. If task killer effects an app/phone performance, then set it to ignore. No reason not to use it at all. Without it most apps with permissions would run continuously.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
Hmmmm.....interesting read!! I'll give uninstalling ATK, startup manager, etc. a shot for a few days and see what happens. Thanks for the info!!
agentJBM said:
Agreed if you just installed and use default settings, but if you take the time to hand set it up, it is a really useful app. Especially kill when screen off saves battery and data. I find I still have 30% battery on day 2 without charging. Without it my battery last 1 day max. If task killer effects an app/phone performance, then set it to ignore. No reason not to use it at all. Without it most apps with permissions would run continuously.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My battery is at 62% after more than 48 hours since unplugging it. I am an average user as I browse, text, calls...etc very frequently. I do not use ATK or juice defender anymore as I did not find any difference.
batman_112 said:
My battery is at 62% after more than 48 hours since unplugging it. I am an average user as I browse, text, calls...etc very frequently. I do not use ATK or juice defender anymore as I did not find any difference.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I probably use my phone a lot more than the average person. I run my own business with my phone when I am out of the office, not to mention my new addiction to the xda app.
I check my ATK frequently because every day is a balancing act of battery vs usage. After using my browser for 30 minutes, I can't believe how many of my installed apps are running for no reason...the list is 2 screens long sometimes.
Without ATK I wouldn't have any way to free up my system?? Are you saying apps running in background or when screen off is better than using ATK?? Hard for me to believe, but you haven't mislead me yet, Batman. I'll give it a try and report back.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
agentJBM said:
I probably use my phone a lot more than the average person. I run my own business with my phone when I am out of the office, not to mention my new addiction to the xda app.
I check my ATK frequently because every day is a balancing act of battery vs usage. After using my browser for 30 minutes, I can't believe how many of my installed apps are running for no reason...the list is 2 screens long sometimes.
Without ATK I wouldn't have any way to free up my system?? Are you saying apps running in background or when screen off is better than using ATK?? Hard for me to believe, but you haven't mislead me yet, Batman. I'll give it a try and report back.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even if you see a long list of apps, sometimes it is not the whole app that is running but only part of it for a while to do a certain task. Android then terminates them when they are idle for a period of time. I also have my brightness set on the lowest setting and only switch on WiFi/3G when I use them. You can download toggle widgets (e.g. APNdroid) from the market to make it easier to toggle these settings.
Also, if you have weak 3G coverage in your area, then that also drains the battery as the phone is constantly searching for the 3G network. Therefore, sometimes I switch my network mode to only 2G (or GSM only) networks rather than GSM/WCDMA preferred.
In conclusion, there are many factors that contribute to how fast your battery is drained, and apps running in the background is certainly one of them but, definitely not the only reason.
Let us know how it goes
Bruce Wayne
Just went about 5 hours with ATK disabled and had my first random reboot ever. Hmmmm.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
uninstalled atk & enabled jit with xrecovery last night.....so far so good Phone is running really smooth....will report battery level after work today (I usually kill my battery every single day )
agentJBM said:
Just went about 5 hours with ATK disabled and had my first random reboot ever. Hmmmm.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Random is the key word here
lightyear420 said:
uninstalled atk & enabled jit with xrecovery last night.....so far so good Phone is running really smooth....will report battery level after work today (I usually kill my battery every single day )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Back in topic.. did you resolve your messaging problems? If so, what was your solution? I'm interested in hearing if you tried pics or long messages yet too?
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
My solution is handcent It's much better for me than the stock app. The stock app is working, though. I tried mms & sms....both are fine. I found the custom vibrate feature in handcent and now I can actually feel it vibrate when I get a text because it stays on for a full second!!!
Did you uninstall stock app? I'm still trying to figure out why I seem to be the only one who has 2 APNs? It reverts back even if I change it, but it works.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
agentJBM said:
Did you uninstall stock app? I'm still trying to figure out why I seem to be the only one who has 2 APNs? It reverts back even if I change it, but it works.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe you have a plan with At&t, correct me if I am wrong. One of the APN is for the data and the second one is for MMS.
Nope....I just reinstalled the app directly over the old install
agentJBM said:
I'm still trying to figure out why I seem to be the only one who has 2 APNs?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have 2 apn's with AT&T as well....media net and media net mms

[Q] Wi-Fi networks screen pop-up

Anyone know how to get rid of the "Select a Wi-Fi network if you would prefer to run the app over Wi-Fi" screen?
I have to press "Do not use Wi-Fi every time and it's pretty annoying.
The only way I know how to get rid of it right now is to completely disable Wi-Fi.
johnnysyeah said:
Anyone know how to get rid of the "Select a Wi-Fi network if you would prefer to run the app over Wi-Fi" screen?
I have to press "Do not use Wi-Fi every time and it's pretty annoying.
The only way I know how to get rid of it right now is to completely disable Wi-Fi.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then disable wifi. Not sure why you'd have it going in the background eating power if you're not actually using it for something.
loonatik78 said:
Then disable wifi. Not sure why you'd have it going in the background eating power if you're not actually using it for something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. But I was asking if there was a way to get rid of that dialog.
I know I could disable Wi-Fi, I even mentioned it in my first post.
But driving to the local Subway by my work place for my lunch break, I don't want to have to disable it and re-enable it for an hour.
If there is no way to do it, then a "No, there isn't a way" would've sufficed.
johnnysyeah said:
Thanks. But I was asking if there was a way to get rid of that dialog.
I know I could disable Wi-Fi, I even mentioned it in my first post.
But driving to the local Subway by my work place for my lunch break, I don't want to have to disable it and re-enable it for an hour.
If there is no way to do it, then a "No, there isn't a way" would've sufficed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm going to assume you're either on uberBAMF or a Gingeritis ROM. I believe Chingy and TeamBAMF have attempted to address that issue, but to what success I'm not sure. Might check out themikmik.com threads for an answer or tool to fix it. That's the best I can tell ya. I never use public wifi because it's always slower than LTE.
loonatik78 said:
I'm going to assume you're either on uberBAMF or a Gingeritis ROM. I believe Chingy and TeamBAMF have attempted to address that issue, but to what success I'm not sure. Might check out themikmik.com threads for an answer or tool to fix it. That's the best I can tell ya. I never use public wifi because it's always slower than LTE.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, I'll check it out.
I tend to use Wi-Fi at my work place to help from burning my battery too quick.
I'm not even on the phone while at work anyway, so sitting idly there with wifi on is a bit better than sitting idly with 4G.
Although I will be installing in a juice defender type app to do some battery testings later.
Hopefully it will help.
johnnysyeah said:
Thanks, I'll check it out.
I tend to use Wi-Fi at my work place to help from burning my battery too quick.
I'm not even on the phone while at work anyway, so sitting idly there with wifi on is a bit better than sitting idly with 4G.
Although I will be installing in a juice defender type app to do some battery testings later.
Hopefully it will help.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not a big fan of task and feature killers. I consistently see a projection of over 40 hours standby on LTE with mine using none of that stuff. Additionally, they tend to hurt performance. I'd be more prone to just dropping a wifi widget someplace. Just my thoughts...
loonatik78 said:
I'm not a big fan of task and feature killers. I consistently see a projection of over 40 hours standby on LTE with mine using none of that stuff. Additionally, they tend to hurt performance. I'd be more prone to just dropping a wifi widget someplace. Just my thoughts...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I'm just doing some testings to see if it helps any.
Logically, I would think it does help, since while my screen is off, the data is disabled.
But who knows, there might be something within the app itself that's draining the battery life even more.
Thanks for your feedbacks!
johnnysyeah said:
Yeah, I'm just doing some testings to see if it helps any.
Logically, I would think it does help, since while my screen is off, the data is disabled.
But who knows, there might be something within the app itself that's draining the battery life even more.
Thanks for your feedbacks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just from experience, some chat clients are simply abusive when it comes to data use. Yahoo was one of them for me. I also try to very rigidly control when certain things sync or update. Seldom used email accounts update once, maybe twice, a day. Weather only every 6 hours instead of EVERY time the widget is viewed which is the default setting. A lot of the sync setting are WAY more frequent than I think they need to be... the information just doesn't change that much. And it's largely stuff you'll never notice it not doing. Also, I underclock my bottem end CPU speeds and undervolt them to the limit. My phone spends the VAST majority of it's time at or below 245MHz, sipping .8volts or less.
I use IM+ Pro and FriendCaster for Facebook.
I do not let FriendCaster ever do any syncing, however, since I don't even check that thing too much and when I do, I can manually sync it myself.
Other than those two, I use Gmail which is on autosync and Moxier Mail for my corporate email which is on direct push mode.
Since we're on the subject, would you know if direct push burns battery unnecessarily also?
I'm not certain how push works, but do not want to put it on auto polling every 3 hours or something.
johnnysyeah said:
I use IM+ Pro and FriendCaster for Facebook.
I do not let FriendCaster ever do any syncing, however, since I don't even check that thing too much and when I do, I can manually sync it myself.
Other than those two, I use Gmail which is on autosync and Moxier Mail for my corporate email which is on direct push mode.
Since we're on the subject, would you know if direct push burns battery unnecessarily also?
I'm not certain how push works, but do not want to put it on auto polling every 3 hours or something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Real push email service shouldn't need polling at all. The entire idea behind push email service, as basically invented by RIM, is that a remote server serves as a proxy user to your account and allows you remote access through that service. As a result, nothing is sent to your device until the remote service has something to send. I'm not familiar with your email app or setup through the corporate account, but if it's actually real push email, it's the best possible setup to preserve battery life. Real push email service is one of the few sports BlackBerry can still say they own the game. Everything else is just pretending REAL hard, but the harder it pretends, the harder it tends to be on your battery too.
loonatik78 said:
Real push email service shouldn't need polling at all. The entire idea behind push email service, as basically invented by RIM, is that a remote server serves as a proxy user to your account and allows you remote access through that service. As a result, nothing is sent to your device until the remote service has something to send. I'm not familiar with your email app or setup through the corporate account, but if it's actually real push email, it's the best possible setup to preserve battery life. Real push email service is one of the few sports BlackBerry can still say they own the game. Everything else is just pretending REAL hard, but the harder it pretends, the harder it tends to be on your battery too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess I did right by setting my Moxier Mail to direct push only then, instead of polling during weekends and such.
Thanks!

[Q] Upload Mb's. are say higher than Download Mb's

I have my Gtab connected to the internet wirelessly via Connectify-me to my laptop that is connected using Virgin Broadband2go 3g Unlimited plan, you get throttled to half speed when you reach 2.5GB (this is why I am concerned about my usage).I was checking my usage history and saw that my Upload Mbs were way higher than my Download Mbs! I have not uploaded anything. I know that when I use my desktop at home there is some data uploaded when I first log on but no where this much. Does it have anything to do with Google apps ie; maps latitudes,Gmail, etc. If so can I turn them off or remove temporarily? If anyone has more suggestions, I'm listeng. Thanks
Almost everything you install app-wise communicates home or to an ad-server. Use Droidwall to block apps from using 3g without permission.
Sent from my Droid using XDA App
tenet420 said:
Almost everything you install app-wise communicates home or to an ad-server. Use Droidwall to block apps from using 3g without permission.
Sent from my Droid using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the best money saving tip I have received in a long time. I wish I knew about this 600Mbs' ago. Thank you very much,
lartomar2002 said:
I was checking my usage history and saw that my Upload Mbs were way higher than my Download Mbs! I have not uploaded anything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Since almost all traffic over the Internet is asymmetric (more downloads than uploads) in nature, most likely you have uploaded something if the usage is higher. Check if you have,
1. Any peer-to-peer programs like BitTorrent/Gnutella/Tor running. This is the most common reason for upload usage being > download usage.
2. Uploaded lots of videos, photos, files to Youtube/Flickr/Rapidshare/...
3. Unknowingly been hosting a spambot. These will also cause more uploads than downloads.
Thank you

Enhanced Email

Are any of you using this app successfully? I'm thinking this awesome app may be what's causing my phone to lock up and randomly reboot.
I've been using it for a couple months but I'm no power user of the app. I get maybe 1 e-mail a day that I either move to a folder or delete.
edit: I'm using Jokers rev 2/test3 rom
I use the app and so does my wife. We are for sure power users averaging 75-200 emails a day across 2-4 accounts. I couldn't handle how the built in app didn't visually differentiate visually what account each email is from (for us it makes a huge difference).
That said my phone does reboot more often than I like. I don't have lockups but I did have instances where I couldn't type or make calls without a reboot, but my wife never has this. I tracked it down to SwiftKey X Keyboard. I have since moved to another keyboard (Flex T9, and ICS Keyboard) and I have eliminated the typing issues.
sjamie said:
Are any of you using this app successfully? I'm thinking this awesome app may be what's causing my phone to lock up and randomly reboot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not the app, once again...you have a broken photon lol =/. Good news is, you arent missing much with enhanced email, gmail app gets emails 5-10 minutes faster than enhanced email. I've tried it on two phones, and a tab, all same results. It's a nice idea to have all accounts merged, but with this app, that's all it is, an idea.
xketch said:
It's not the app, once again...you have a broken photon lol =/. Good news is, you arent missing much with enhanced email, gmail app gets emails 5-10 minutes faster than enhanced email. I've tried it on two phones, and a tab, all same results. It's a nice idea to have all accounts merged, but with this app, that's all it is, an idea.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think all three replacement phones are broken with the same exact issues. My phone has now been running for four days w/ no issues (the longest yet) after doing a factory reset and installing no apps. This leads me to believe my problems are software related. Now, I'm trying to smoke out the problematic app(s).
Yeah, I've been wondering the same thing, as my Enhanced E-Mail seems to be quite laggy sometimes, and it's almost always the first thing to show the annoying keyboard lock-up, no-dialing issue. However, I use it ALL the time so that may just be an obvious consequence ... at any rate, I'd hate to take it off the phone unless we knew for sure!
sjamie said:
I don't think all three replacement phones are broken with the same exact issues. My phone has now been running for four days w/ no issues (the longest yet) after doing a factory reset and installing no apps. This leads me to believe my problems are software related. Now, I'm trying to smoke out the problematic app(s).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I want to agree with you but I've never had a random restart or lockup or any type of lag.
Yes I do and yes my phone reboots randomly as well as my keyboard becoming non responsive.
I've removed it as of yesterday.
Using gmail aPP and stock email, if only I could figure out how to switch accounts on the stock email app
Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk
I use it
Sent from my MB855 using xda premium
onree said:
Yeah, I've been wondering the same thing, as my Enhanced E-Mail seems to be quite laggy sometimes, and it's almost always the first thing to show the annoying keyboard lock-up, no-dialing issue. However, I use it ALL the time so that may just be an obvious consequence ... at any rate, I'd hate to take it off the phone unless we knew for sure!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm glad I am not the only one who gets the keyboard lock-up, no-dialing, random reboot issue. Since I stopped using EE, I have not experienced any of these issues in over a week. In a few more days, I am going to reinstall it to see if the problems return. If they do, then EE is officially the problem in my book! The app is so awesome that I hope it is a different app causing the problems. For me, the other problem app could have been Smart Keyboard Pro. I've since switched to the A.I.Type keyboard which I like better. If no problems return after I reinstall EE then the problems would have been caused by Smart Keyboard Pro on my phone.
A new version of EE (v.1.31.2) was released today! I am going to try it and see if the random reboots return. Since uninstalling EE a few weeks ago, my phone has been running FLAWLESSLY with no reboots! Let's hope that continues after installation. (crossing fingers)
Anyone currently using EE successfully with zero random reboots?
I've been using Kaiten mail for a week, it's perfect in my eyes. Give it a try.
xketch said:
I've been using Kaiten mail for a week, it's perfect in my eyes. Give it a try.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately K-9 Mail has weak support for exchange, I connect to two different servers (or it did a few years ago, it still has only WebDAV support) and neither worked with K-9.
On a different note, do you have any reboots with Kaiten?
xketch said:
I've been using Kaiten mail for a week, it's perfect in my eyes. Give it a try.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I used to use Kaiten and K-9. Here are the *main* problems I had with them:
Can't change font color
Can't change font type
Let's say I have 100 emails in my inbox, I scroll down to see email #59, I switch to different app for something, when I return to K-9/Kaiten, the app reloads all of my emails; thus LOSING MY PLACE in the message list. Completely unacceptable!!!
Have these issues been addressed in the latest versions?
I've been interested in using a 3rd party email app (EE, kaiten, k9, maildroid, etc) for multiple Gmail accounts. My only question is if the 3rd party app gets push email just like the stock Gmail app.
honestly, im happy with stock e-mail as I don't type full page novels, but honestly, I have hears nothing but negative on EE!
Sent from Photon 4G code name "Neo" using XDA Premium!
gollyzila said:
I've been interested in using a 3rd party email app (EE, kaiten, k9, maildroid, etc) for multiple Gmail accounts. My only question is if the 3rd party app gets push email just like the stock Gmail app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most of the ones you mentioned offer push email if you use IMAP or Exchange configurations.
sjamie said:
Most of the ones you mentioned offer push email if you use IMAP or Exchange configurations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. I'll start using EE then.
gollyzila said:
Thanks. I'll start using EE then.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great! Please let us know if your phone starts experiencing random reboots after installing EE if you don't already experience them.
I haven't had any random reboots but my first gripe about EE is no threaded emails. Am I not seeing a setting in EE for threaded emails?
What other 3rd party email apps have you guys used that have threaded emails?

[Q] Getting the 50g free dropbox

So I just got my phone from Best Buy but the guy skipped through the screen for dropbox during setup. Do I need to get back to that screen to get the 50 free gigs or can I just use the regular app.
log in via dropbox app, you'll then receive an email congratulating you on your new galaxy s III etc etc.
Has a link you click do a few stupid things and its yours.
Magic Oreo said:
log in via dropbox app, you'll then receive an email congratulating you on your new galaxy s III etc etc.
Has a link you click do a few stupid things and its yours.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Weird, I didn't get an email. I just signed in, pushed the options to check my storage, and it was updated to reflect the additional 50gb to my 15gb already.
You just have to do 5 out of the 7 or 8 things on their "Get Started Guide" in order to activate the extra 48GB space.
Cool thanks guys
Not bad
Sent from my SPH-L710 using XDA
teh roxxorz said:
Weird, I didn't get an email. I just signed in, pushed the options to check my storage, and it was updated to reflect the additional 50gb to my 15gb already.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you must of already completed 5 tasks.
getting the extra 50G
Similar situation for me.
I am a free user who is up to 5.8G based on referrals.
From what I am seeing from other user, seems I just jump through a few hoops signing on my new SIII and end up with 55Gigs. And when the two years is over, I drop back to wherever I was with referrals?
Thoughts?

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