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Im buying the new transformer prime... but about 4 days ago i was heading out the door to buy an ipad 2 before a friend showed me this great device. So far in the last 4 days since i heard of this tablet ive told 20 different people about this and NO ONE knows about it, NO ONE!! not a soul, and who can blame them?
there's no commercials, there's almost no add campaign at all... there's not even a solid release date yet!!
im finding it hard to make an investment in this company.
I won't get into how much money Apple dunks into marketing their products. This all comes down to how much more they will gain by dumping millions on advertising it. Will they make 10x profit compared to the cost? If they can't get a good estimate, then most company chooses to just let online "press" and retailers advertise in their stead. See how it goes and promote it further. Most people learn about products on TV and the Internet, but what makes them want to buy a product is from knowing someone that owns it or have experienced it first hand. There's no reason for a corporation to invest in marketing a product if it is not a 100% sure hit. It has something to do with corporate decisions.
The EeePad Transformer was a pretty good device with AWESOME support. That is what Asus does. I can verify that is what Asus does best; slow at getting customers, but keeps them forever because they stay behind their products. If you ever purchase their video cards, or other hardware, you will find that Asus will treat you like family.
Apple may have good Customer Support but that lasts how long? 90 days without a warranty?
But also, this is a new product as its not just another Tablet. While current Transformer users love the product, it does seem a little unusual. The Transformer line-up will become a pretty big thing in the next few years I'm sure.
I was surprised that in a group of 20 people 2 recognised Asus Transformer for what it was and no one called it iPad. It was in Poland. I don't know if there were advertisements in TV for it or sth. It's in most big shops though, maybe people know it from their ad flyers (I don't know how it's called - ads for big stores that are left on your front door with information about new promotions).
Android tablets suffer from hardware-war. But the thing is that majority of consumers are mainly interested in CONTENT, not the device and its hardware. This is why Amazon Kindle jumped amazingly fast in sales even though their custom skin for Android and hardware of the device are relatively lacklustre.
Android makers mainly battle with their features and hardware. But that's not the way to make an impact.
I understand word of mouth is a great way to sell products, but since no one i know has ever heard of this thing, i got lucky that some random xbl friend happened to know about it. I find it hard to beleave that ASUS is a marketing geniuses that is using a unique marketing trick which is the opposite of what everyone else does.
Apple has everyone brain washed, including me a little while ago, and thats what ASUS should be striving for.. not hide in the shadows and let the fans do the selling.
blaziner18 said:
I understand word of mouth is a great way to sell products, but since no one i know has ever heard of this thing, i got lucky that some random xbl friend happened to know about it. I find it hard to beleave that ASUS is a marketing geniuses that is using a unique marketing trick which is the opposite of what everyone else does.
Apple has everyone brain washed, including me a little while ago, and thats what ASUS should be striving for.. not hide in the shadows and let the fans do the selling.
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Click to collapse
I don't think anyone's trying to argue that Asus is a marketing genius. But they don't have anywhere close to Apple's financial resources. So instead of a billion dollar ad campaign, they spend that money on developing and continuously supporting their products. Apple may have people brainwashed, but Asus doesn't need to resort to that, as their products speak for themselves.
And if you look at the release of the Transformer 1, which sold much faster than it could be produced initially (and it looks like the same might be the case for the TF2), you can see they must be doing something right.
Thank god I won't have to see a billion other people holding the same device as me. I want to throw up when I see everyone on the bus using the same iPhone.
xTRICKYxx said:
Apple may have good Customer Support but that lasts how long? 90 days without a warranty?
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Click to collapse
Just wanted to clarify that Apple products have a 1 year warranty included, and you can just drive to an Apple store to get it serviced, and not having to pay to RMA your products by mailing it and wait...
I've been thinking about this tablet, and it's release date wondering why it's not out yet.
All I can think of is
1) Want to get rid of inventory of TF101's
or
2) Really want to wait to get the ICS out with the tablet. Because it significantly increases the performance of the Tegra 3 quad core tablet. Maybe, if they release with Honeycomb, and the Quad core is slightly better performance than Dual core, they look overpriced, and low benchmarks get circulated around the web.
Both are pure speculation without but there has to be some reason it's not out yet.
farplaner said:
Just wanted to clarify that Apple products have a 1 year warranty included, and you can just drive to an Apple store to get it serviced, and not having to pay to RMA your products by mailing it and wait...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
..and have to deal with an Apple Store Genius. I've seen many smarmy Apple users, but these "Geniuses" take it to a new level... No thanks.
They remind me of the "Santa's helper Elves" in A Christmas Story (yeah, the one with Ralphie).
They re definitly waiting for ICS to launch the Prime. And they are right to do so. don't ship an unfinished product, especialy when hopes and demands are so high about it.
nook-color said:
I've been thinking about this tablet, and it's release date wondering why it's not out yet.
All I can think of is
1) Want to get rid of inventory of TF101's
or
2) Really want to wait to get the ICS out with the tablet. Because it significantly increases the performance of the Tegra 3 quad core tablet. Maybe, if they release with Honeycomb, and the Quad core is slightly better performance than Dual core, they look overpriced, and low benchmarks get circulated around the web.
Both are pure speculation without but there has to be some reason it's not out yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or they want to be sure they have plenty of stock, and that stock it where it's supposed to go, before releasing it. I imagine there's a lot of demand, and more places than ever wanting to sell it. Logistically, it's a lot of work.
Smyc151 said:
Or they want to be sure they have plenty of stock, and that stock it where it's supposed to go, before releasing it. I imagine there's a lot of demand, and more places than ever wanting to sell it. Logistically, it's a lot of work.
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Click to collapse
This is what I'm thinking is the case. The first time around, the TF101 was back-ordered for weeks and the dock didn't launch for a month after the tablet. This is not a fun situation to be in for the company or consumers. I'm sure that not being able to meet demand takes a toll on potential sales.
That said, it is also possible that they are wanting to deliver what had been rumored, since it was within their abilities to do. The tech blogs were making a lot of noise at the end of last month, beginning of this month about the Prime as being the first Tegra 3 and first ICS tablet to market. It does not seem out of the question that Asus would try to live up to the rumors if possible, especially while trying to justify a higher price-point than the original.
well this is making me feel better about ASUS, but my last argument is more of a nuh-uhh then anything else. I still say, even if they lack the resources there should be some small add campaign, a release date, internet adds. I was extremely lucky to find this product.
farplaner said:
Just wanted to clarify that Apple products have a 1 year warranty included, and you can just drive to an Apple store to get it serviced, and not having to pay to RMA your products by mailing it and wait...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be fair, Asus has service centers all over their home country Taiwan that are similar to Apple's genius bars.
I think it's just because Asus is based in Taiwan that we don't see much of their advertising and great service. They seem to focus most of their efforts in their home country. If you go look around there you'll see Asus ads everywhere.
Just because they don't advertise; makes it a bad product. Most people buy IOS devices because they simply aren't geekish and just want a device that works ,(Not counting the ever annoying and ignorant iSheep/iFanboys).
What i love about Asus, is that the products speak for themselves.
I remember when the HTC Evo 4G had been announced but not yet released... and everyone was clamoring and *****ing, wondering why HTC & Sprint didn't bother with any pre-release advertising and hype. And look, it went to become one of the more popular Android offerings in recent history.
Don't sweat it...
Guys here in the US the Prime is 100% sold out on Amazon, has been since 48 hours from being made available. Doesn't matter if it has commercials or not, it's already making money and isn't even on shelves.
kristovaher said:
Android tablets suffer from hardware-war. But the thing is that majority of consumers are mainly interested in CONTENT, not the device and its hardware. This is why Amazon Kindle jumped amazingly fast in sales even though their custom skin for Android and hardware of the device are relatively lacklustre.
Android makers mainly battle with their features and hardware. But that's not the way to make an impact.
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Click to collapse
Tegra 3 is better than the A5 Chip.
The GPU in Tegra 3 is actually better than the SGX543, but its 2 GPU not one which is why its benchmark is higher, if you half the score in GLBenchmark for iPad 2 you see that Tegra 3 is btter. So hardware Android isnt far behind.
http://online.wsj.com/article_email...12043639469540-lMyQjAxMTAyMDIwOTEyNDkyWj.html
good find. I can only see this as being positive for Android. plus Google store will likely be stocked up. some tablets won't be hard to find anymore. I'm sure Google would keep their online supplies stocked up. then this will also tie into Google wallet accounts. purchases made easy on Google online store through Google wallet.
Assuming this comes true, it confirms the obvious, that the laissez faire vendor adoption method has failed. Google needed to be more hands-on. Hopefully it'll be the first step in a process, as by itself, it isn't enough to win market share.
Much as I would like to get a decent $199 tab, selling widgets at a loss (or break-even) is not a winning strategy. Goog will have to cook up some magic jelly beans, then grow a beanstalk and climb out of the low-rent district. Apple the Jolly Giant is waiting at the top.
Exciting times!
dec. esryse
Ya im not disappointed by this
e.mote said:
Much as I would like to get a decent $199 tab, selling widgets at a loss (or break-even) is not a winning strategy. Goog will have to cook up some magic jelly beans, then grow a beanstalk and climb out of the low-rent district. Apple the Jolly Giant is waiting at the top.
Exciting times!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How can you say it's not a winning strategy? Razor blade manufacturers have been doing it for years--sell the razor at a loss, make it back big-time with the razors. Amazon is doing it with the Kindle, and I think Google could benefit significantly from doing it as well. They want to sell ads on mobile devices, and I'm sure they recognize that Apple would like to take this business away from them on iOS devices. And that's not to mention selling content via Google Play.
I think a subsidized tablet could help kick-start the Android tablet market in general. At the very least, it could convince developers that they should be investing in tablet-optimized apps, which is the one thing that's missing from the equation.
While this is good news and all, Google REALLY need to start trying to get developers into making good Android Tablet apps, we are getting close to an even keel on phone apps, but Android Tablet apps lag so far behind iPad it isnt even funny!
e.mote said:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303404704577312043639469540.html
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Google bought Motorola Mobility and would NEVER rely or use Asus to throw it's own name on their tablets. Google knows Asus tablets aren't up to par with quality and could never compete with Apple on quality. I'll buy a Google branded Moto tablet instantly cause it will be of high quality and defect free. I've used 3 ipad3's already and not one had ANY light bleed at all. Strangely every Asus tablet I've touched or used had some kind of light bleed. People do see the inferior products being used.
http://www.engadget.com/2012/03/29/nvidia-ceo-suggests-199-tegra-3-tablets-in-the-summer/
He's been saying that since last year... however, I also find it to be annoying.
Anyways, if Tegra 3 devices do hit $199 price, I can only imagine how crippled other aspects in the system specifications will look like.
Btw, this notion that if more "android tablets" are in the wild.. you will see more 3rd parties developing dedicated tablet apps due to the increased potential in profit/revenue.
However, if you look into smartphone market, it's not exactly true. You certainly see growth compared to when Android Market started, but if you compared to iOS app store... it's nothing to boast about considering that Android Smartphone (as a whole) leads the share in smartphone market over iPhone.
Simply put, Android users do not spend money on apps as much as iOS users. Until this TREND changes... you won't see 3rd parties developing unique tablets apps for Android. Btw, Google's approach with unified "app" between tablet & smartphone doesn't help either.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/android-vs-iphone-economics-apps-160608285.html
>How can you say it's not a winning strategy? Razor blade manufacturers have been doing it for years...Amazon is doing it with the Kindle, and I think Google could benefit significantly from doing it as well. They want to sell ads on mobile devices
It's not a winning strategy because the razor-blade model is not yet proven on tablets. I haven't seen Amazon break out the champagne for the loads of profit from selling things through the Fire. Amazon is in a much better position to monetize from its tablet because a) it has more stuff to sell, not just ads, and b) the Fire is intentionally limited to get all its contents exclusively from Amazon. A Goog tablet won't have the same luxury, not if it were to be "open" as prior Nexus devices.
Fundamentally, it's not a winning strategy because you can't base a platform around the idea of pushing ads/wares into the user's face. Amazon is selling a portable kiosk. Google is trying to sell an entire mobile platform, and the platform has to succeed on its own merit, ie have an intrinsic worth. The rumored $199 tablet can only be a barebone, stripped down unit. It cannot compete with the incumbent iPad, nor with the more functional Win8 tablets when those appear.
I'd agree that it's a necessary stop-gap action. Goog needs to get enough devices out there so devs would develop for it. It's the same as what RIM is doing with Playbook. A $199 tab is also needed not to compete with Amazon, but prevent it from hijacking the Android platform.
The only winning strategy has to be based on the user experience, which in turn depends on the OS. Simply put, HC wasn't good enough. Based on what I've seen here of the Prime's update travails, ICS is still a beta. Fully 5 months after launch, the main improvements in 4.0.4 changelog still have the words "faster" and "more stable" and "fixes" in them. Fine for enthusiasts, not so fine for Joe Blow.
You can make it good, or you can make it cheap. Android failed on the first, so it needed to resort to the second. But the long-term solution is still to make it good.
The more tablets they spew out, the more work it takes for devs to port/update apps for that specific tablet. When the TFP came out a bunch of games didn't work (Dead Space, Gameloft, etc) and they had to take time to port it. How big of the market share do you think the TFP represents 1%? Then tmw some ABCD tablet is gonna come out and they will have to port for that again. I read somewhere that interest for Android tab delopment is actually declining unlike the smartphone market. They better get their stuff together before W8 hits.
^^^
Same thing goes for accessories...
Modded by MBOK
What Google could hopefully do is to subsidize them a bit. While we pay our 400-700€ for a tablet most of the "normal" consumer won't and most people I also won't recommend such an expensive device for the few things they would do with it.
Tablet market in general is still very small and even Apple has just a little tiny piece of it. To get it attractive for the "normal" users they have to be around 200€/$ max and Google hopefully can do that.
MysteriousDiary said:
What Google could hopefully do is to subsidize them a bit. While we pay our 400-700€ for a tablet most of the "normal" consumer won't and most people I also won't recommend such an expensive device for the few things they would do with it.
Tablet market in general is still very small and even Apple has just a little tiny piece of it. To get it attractive for the "normal" users they have to be around 200€/$ max and Google hopefully can do that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont think pricing them cheaper is gonna do a whole lot anymore. You have the iPad 2 setting the upper bar at 400 and the iPad 3 setting the absolute highest at 500 then you have the Fire setting the low bar at 200. All other tablets are stuck in the 300 area or is forced to compete with the iPad head on. And you bet 99% of consumers are gonna ask why they would want to pay more for an Android tab when they can get an iPad for cheaper.
The problem is that they need more devs on Android. How many times do we have to wait for iOS apps to hopefully be ported over. When does it ever happen the other way around?
Well there are great Android Apps who are not available for iOS. I'm always wondering why people look at iOS apps and want the exact same instead of looking what Android has to get the same job done. It's about getting the things done people want to do on their tablet - doesn't matter if the app is called a or b. Especially since ICS more and more Apps also have a native Tablet UI - thanks to the fragments. On the other side iOS still is like a stretched phone OS with it's 4x4(5) grid - even on a big tablet.
The new iPad doesn't sell well too. The sells of it are much worser than Apple seems to have expected and the workers in Foxconn got already "just" 4 day weeks and holiday because of the reduced iPad production. They also switched some production lines to other products because of the less demand in new iPads. Even the chinese sellers in blackmarket are sitting on their new iPads and can barely sell them.
http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?cid=1102&MainCatID&id=20120328000090
And while maybe about 50% of people have a SmartPhone it's maybe less than 10% or 5% for tablets. We're still far away from a bit tablet boom. For most usecases the current ones were just too expensive - those are tablets for us...the geeks. Kindle Fire is just available in the US and not all want a tablet where you barely can see and feel the Android underneath it.
I still believe in a big success of a good 199$ Tablet from Google/ASUS. It's also the perfect price range for birthday gifts.
>http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?cid=1102&MainCatID&id=20120328000090
Good anecdotal piece. It's a bit too soon to determine iPad sales, but there are caution flags out (also anecdote-based).
http://blogs.barrons.com/techtrader...s-avoid-shares-till-fyq2-ipad-sales-play-out/
>I still believe in a big success of a good 199$ Tablet from Google/ASUS.
Assuming a bit better specs than Fire, it should be a best-seller. By itself, it may well jump-start Android tab adoption/development, especially as iPad & Win8 won't be in this price range. Then again, Apple may well release the rumored $300 miniPad in 2H to put a choke hold on Android.
In that same vein, Acer & Co, masters of the cheap netbooks, may want to repeat their fortune with cheap Win8 tabs. The sticking point here is Win8's 1366x768 min res, which would preclude Win8 from cheap 7" units.
Going down the line, I can't imagine Amazon will sit still for Google to eat its lunch. We may well see a $149 Fire yet.
How low can they go?
MysteriousDiary said:
Well there are great Android Apps who are not available for iOS. I'm always wondering why people look at iOS apps and want the exact same instead of looking what Android has to get the same job done. It's about getting the things done people want to do on their tablet - doesn't matter if the app is called a or b. Especially since ICS more and more Apps also have a native Tablet UI - thanks to the fragments. On the other side iOS still is like a stretched phone OS with it's 4x4(5) grid - even on a big tablet.
The new iPad doesn't sell well too. The sells of it are much worser than Apple seems to have expected and the workers in Foxconn got already "just" 4 day weeks and holiday because of the reduced iPad production. They also switched some production lines to other products because of the less demand in new iPads. Even the chinese sellers in blackmarket are sitting on their new iPads and can barely sell them.
http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?cid=1102&MainCatID&id=20120328000090
And while maybe about 50% of people have a SmartPhone it's maybe less than 10% or 5% for tablets. We're still far away from a bit tablet boom. For most usecases the current ones were just too expensive - those are tablets for us...the geeks. Kindle Fire is just available in the US and not all want a tablet where you barely can see and feel the Android underneath it.
I still believe in a big success of a good 199$ Tablet from Google/ASUS. It's also the perfect price range for birthday gifts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the shocking revelation, to me, on current Ipad sales. I love it..lol. seems like all the current issues with it and not really being an upgrade from ipad2 is hurting sales dramatically. Steve is rolling over in his grave over this latest Ipad. I hope this is the beginning of the downfall of apple. All that national
ITS LIKE THEY SAY, WHAT GOES UP, MUST COME DOWN. Apple has no where else to go but down. Seems like people realizing there are more choices in tablets other than Ipad.
MysteriousDiary said:
The new iPad doesn't sell well too. The sells of it are much worser than Apple seems to have expected and the workers in Foxconn got already "just" 4 day weeks and holiday because of the reduced iPad production. They also switched some production lines to other products because of the less demand in new iPads. Even the chinese sellers in blackmarket are sitting on their new iPads and can barely sell them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If the iPad 3 isn't selling well then Android is selling at all. Because Apple sold 25% of the tablets Android ever sold in just 3 days. The lower workload and blackmarket sellers not being able to resell iPads could just be because Apple was better prepared compared to their iPad 2 launch (ie having preorders for the 3). Apple learned unlike ASUS did going from OG TF to the TFP.
You know news sites love to make controversies and because people will read anything related to Apple. Take the heat problem for example, there was all the controversy but then they found out that its not even that much hotter to other tablets.
xGary said:
If the iPad 3 isn't selling well then Android is selling at all. Because Apple sold 25% of the tablets Android ever sold in just 3 days. The lower workload and blackmarket sellers not being able to resell iPads could just be because Apple was better prepared compared to their iPad 2 launch (ie having preorders for the 3). Apple learned unlike ASUS did going from OG TF to the TFP.
You know news sites love to make controversies and because people will read anything related to Apple. Take the heat problem for example, there was all the controversy but then they found out that its not even that much hotter to other tablets.
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Click to collapse
so the tens of thousands of ipads throwing up Shutting down due to overheating is controversy? especially since its well documented on apple forums and ipadforums.net, which is the largest Ipad forums. it wasn't controversies, that's a real issue with the new Ipad which got national television coverage on it in less than a week of its launch. that's one of the main reasons Ipad sales have halted. along with ipad2 users seeing no real benefits into upgrading. everyone totes it not as a real upgrade. more comparable to b.s. iPhone in-between builds. next Ipad to release will be the true upgrade to ipad2. current latest release is more like the ipad2S.
demandarin said:
so the tens of thousands of ipads throwing up Shutting down due to overheating is controversy? especially since its well documented on apple forums and ipadforums.net, which is the largest Ipad forums. it wasn't controversies, that's a real issue with the new Ipad which got national television coverage on it in less than a week of its launch. that's one of the main reasons Ipad sales have halted. along with ipad2 users seeing no real benefits into upgrading. everyone totes it not as a real upgrade. more comparable to b.s. iPhone in-between builds. next Ipad to release will be the true upgrade to ipad2. current latest release is more like the ipad2S.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did not see where tens of thousands of iPads shutting down due to overheating happen. Look on the iPad 3 section on the iPadForums right now. How many threads do you see with people complaining about heat? I looked through 4 pages and the only thread I saw about heat was someone asking if there was indeed a heat problem and people replying that it does get a little warmer but nothing crazy. It is an electronic, it gets warm. My TFP got hot when I played an hour of Dungeon Defender. Does the iPad get hotter? Probably. Do I notice it? No.
And Apple is set to release once a year. It is their schedule that they will stick to. People can't expect Apple to make a major breakthrough like the iPhone and iPad every year. They will make huge breakthroughs but just not every year. A lot of Android devices get crappy upgrades between versions and no one cries about it. Maybe for once there could be a huge breakthrough from Android and Apple will follow that. Why must it always be the other way around?
Interesting article on Why the Google store selling tablets online would succeed.
http://www.extremetech.com/electron...iled&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=pulsenews
Hey Guys, just came across this article and thought it was a good read. Do you think Android will partner with Asus to make their own brand of tablets...will it be better for us as Android buyers in the future if Android had more control by being the hardware as well as software maker. or do you feel like this is turning them into Apple-lite
http://www.androidauthority.com/will-google-abandon-android-71483/
Seems like Android Authority is a bit desperate for clicks. That is all I got from it.
detta123 said:
Seems like Android Authority is a bit desperate for clicks. That is all I got from it.
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Click to collapse
yeah basically..lol.
they taking the whole Asus Manufacturing Google Nexus tablet and spinning it into some crazy apocalyptic Android dying story. Android will be fine. Android growth has really actually just begun. we haven't seen nothing yet. Google needs a nexus tablet to instill confidence and optimism in Androids future. It can almost be guareenteed to attract more developers to android ecosystem. If android was dying, I'd seriously doubt they'd be making a tablet with Asus, restructured Google Play Store, and Making Google store purchases possible to be made online by anyone. All these recent moves Google has made is pointing to something big coming up.
Android for LIFE!
All of my current and future devices will continue to be android.
It is just way too much fun, IOS sucks.
If android goes away, I will go back to laptops.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
I dont even want to read that article Android brings profit and is a huge thing worldwide. Why would you abandon something like this? Of course its not Google's biggest income generator but it has so much potential and it serves as competition to Apple.
Google deciding to do some hardware manufacturing? I really like that. They probably learn from it and be able to improve the software/hardware.
There is one thing though they could do to android imho. I like some of the 3rd party GUI's that come with android devices. For example HTC Sense. They add alot of nice widgets and great looking uniform base apps.
BUT. At the price of getting important updates like ICS half a year later? No... No.
For me there are 2 ways those companies could handle the situation. Make custom UI's optional. Let people use vanilla Android if they want fast upgrades and let them switch to custom UI's once their done. Or just open all the bootloaders and release all kernel source and stuff to XDA so people can make their own roms and updates (which usually are better anyway...).
Apart from that Android is just totally great.
clouds5 said:
For me there are 2 ways those companies could handle the situation. Make custom UI's optional. Let people use vanilla Android if they want fast upgrades and let them switch to custom UI's once their done. Or just open all the bootloaders and release all kernel source and stuff to XDA so people can make their own roms and updates (which usually are better anyway...).
Apart from that Android is just totally great.
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Click to collapse
Actually Google is already consdidering this. read several articles on it. it's a great idea bit one catch, Phone carriers would hate it. those companies add those GUI to devices to differentiate themselves from other similar devices. I'd rather have vanilla android experience and not have bloat ui on top of it. A GUI on top of vanilla android will never be faster out the box than a plain vanilla experience. one suggestion was to make the various companies GUI removable if the user chooses. they could use that companies GUI or go vanilla route or use one of the many launchers available on android. Usually a company GUI will be more integrated and stable than one from marketplace.
Yeah i've read about that too. i dont think custom UIs need to go away. Sometimes they're great. And with tegra3 phones coming out i guess the performance wont be such an issue anymore.
But i'd love to see some change in that situation. I think updates shouldnt be delayed more than 1 month. Not like half a year.
The article is the usual blog filler; title is admittedly clickbait. Then again, most news & blog sites have SEO'ed titles to varying degree. Yellow journalism used to be on the fringe. Now, it's the way to get clicks. That's the cost of "free" content.
Idle gossip aside, Google's strategy for tablet adoption has not worked. It will need to do something, and soon. We should know by Google I/O in June, if not earlier.
IMO, the rumors presently circulating--direct-sale of cheapo tablet & online store--aren't enough. The problems are more fundamental, and are myriad. To me, what's discouraging aren't the obstacles, but that I haven't seen any signal from Google leadership that they recognize the scope of the obstacles.
At any rate, Android won't suffer the fate of WebOS. It's entrenched on phones, and its open-source distribution will allow it to live on as a "hobbyist" OS, if nothing else.
Things move pretty fast in this mobile market, so we won't have long to wait, one way or the other.
Trolling done wrong.
A terrible excuse for either op-ed or journalism. sigh.
Seems this kid who wrote the article didn't get the point of android....
It amplifies all the Google services. It gives Google a extremely huge platform to present their products... it generates Google accounts which can be used for the almost infinite range of Google products. It helps to spread G+ and not to mention Google ad-words..
There is no essential need for a strong Google Phone brand... When you use it the normal way you pretty soon notice that Android is a Google product... you are asked to create a Google account, you have a ton of Google services pre-installed etc. .
Android could be a losing deal and it would still be worth the effort. Just because it spreads Google stuff. The power you have when 50% of the smart-phones world wide run with your is is enormous... Google does not have to worry too much about branding as long as the providers don't remove the Google-Products from it...
I see it like a commenter in the article, Google Tablet to fight the Kindle Fire... because it breaks the Google-branding... not so funny for Google...
>[Android] amplifies all the Google services. It gives Google a extremely huge platform to present their products...There is no essential need for a strong Google Phone brand...Android could be a losing deal and it would still be worth the effort.
These are all true. But IMO it misses the forest for the trees, the forest in this case being the next computing form factor, ie the tablet being a successor rather than adjunct of laptops. That should be the goal, not just an extension to sell more wares.
To be the next "computer," the OS has to do more, akin to the range of functions on desktop OS'es. Android, like iOS, lacks basic underpinnings--things like built-in networking, printing, support for peripheral devices, apps interoperability, etc etc.
The shortcoming doesn't affect Apple, because iOS has achieved critical mass on phones and tablets. Its success engenders 3rd-party support to address any deficit faced.
The other aspect not oft mentioned is that a bona fide OS needs support. One takeaway from a quick scan through these and other (official) Android forums is that OS support is grossly inadequate. As much complaints as there are in this forum, Asus is actually one of the better vendors for support. Users of Acer, Toshiba, and others, have given up on support. And these are enthusiasts. Think of how worse it would be for normal users.
The writing is on the wall: HW vendors don't have the expertise to support the OS. Google needs to do it. But with its current distribution philosophy, ie making AOSP code public and let HW vendors do what they will, Google can't do that. For it to support its OS, Google will need to follow the Microsoft path.
Getting its hands dirty with its own hardware may be a start, assuming Google better supports its product. But customer support has never been in Google's DNA, so I have my doubt that things would improve soon.
Google bought Motorolla, why would they need to partner with ASUS?
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>Google bought Motorolla, why would they need to partner with ASUS?
Because Asus can make cheap tablets, eg the rumored $199 tab, and Moto can't. Secondly, because Google still needs to maintain some degree of impartiality. With declining vendor support (on tablets), it can ill afford to piss off the few remaining.
e.mote said:
>Google bought Motorolla, why would they need to partner with ASUS?
Because Asus can make cheap tablets, eg the rumored $199 tab, and Moto can't. Secondly, because Google still needs to maintain some degree of impartiality. With declining vendor support (on tablets), it can ill afford to piss off the few remaining.
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Click to collapse
Agreed, the Motorola Xoom, great as it was(I owned one), was simply overpriced.
I do believe that in order to be widely accepted as being better than Apple, Google needs to seriously focus on getting better developer support. You can release the best tablet in the world, but if you do not have developer support, people will continue to flock to IOS. Lower the price of tablets while maintaining good quality standards, and gain developer support=win for Android
e.mote said:
>[Android] amplifies all the Google services. It gives Google a extremely huge platform to present their products...There is no essential need for a strong Google Phone brand...Android could be a losing deal and it would still be worth the effort.
These are all true. But IMO it misses the forest for the trees, the forest in this case being the next computing form factor, ie the tablet being a successor rather than adjunct of laptops. That should be the goal, not just an extension to sell more wares.
To be the next "computer," the OS has to do more, akin to the range of functions on desktop OS'es. Android, like iOS, lacks basic underpinnings--things like built-in networking, printing, support for peripheral devices, apps interoperability, etc etc.
The shortcoming doesn't affect Apple, because iOS has achieved critical mass on phones and tablets. Its success engenders 3rd-party support to address any deficit faced.
The other aspect not oft mentioned is that a bona fide OS needs support. One takeaway from a quick scan through these and other (official) Android forums is that OS support is grossly inadequate. As much complaints as there are in this forum, Asus is actually one of the better vendors for support. Users of Acer, Toshiba, and others, have given up on support. And these are enthusiasts. Think of how worse it would be for normal users.
The writing is on the wall: HW vendors don't have the expertise to support the OS. Google needs to do it. But with its current distribution philosophy, ie making AOSP code public and let HW vendors do what they will, Google can't do that. For it to support its OS, Google will need to follow the Microsoft path.
Getting its hands dirty with its own hardware may be a start, assuming Google better supports its product. But customer support has never been in Google's DNA, so I have my doubt that things would improve soon.
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Click to collapse
You make some interesting points, but I disagree that iOS is anywhere near being accepted as a PC replacement. In many important ways, Android is much farther along in this respect--access to the file system alone is one area. And, I think the idea that tablets will replace PCs is way overblown--having tried to use mine (even with the keyboard dock) as a replacement for my Windows notebook, I can testify that although some things are more convenient with tablets (like ebook reading, casual surfing, etc.), NOTHING is as efficient as with a "real" PC.
I could never do my job on any existing tablet, whether it's iOS or Android. I work with complex documents, use Photoshop for more than changing color tones, do some light video editing, etc. None of those are efficient (or even possible) on a tablet. Even the simple things like browsing, Twitter, etc., etc., are more efficient on a notebook or desktop. Again, a tablet is convenient--lightweight, long battery life, etc.--so it has its place alongside a real PC. But thinking it can replace a PC for most people is, I think, entirely unrealistic at this point.
Maybe that'll change in a few years, although I doubt even that. Seriously, who can imagine working EXCLUSIVELY on a 10" screen? And if a tablet becomes something that you plug into external monitors and keyboards and such, well then, ASUS is already mostly there with the Transformer series. And at that point what we'll have is just a more portable PC with external accessories. Once a tablet becomes complex enough in terms of network support, printing, peripheral devices like scanners, etc., then is it really a "tablet" any longer?
..........
demandarin said:
Actually Google is already consdidering this. read several articles on it. it's a great idea bit one catch, Phone carriers would hate it. those companies add those GUI to devices to differentiate themselves from other similar devices. I'd rather have vanilla android experience and not have bloat ui on top of it. A GUI on top of vanilla android will never be faster out the box than a plain vanilla experience. one suggestion was to make the various companies GUI removable if the user chooses. they could use that companies GUI or go vanilla route or use one of the many launchers available on android. Usually a company GUI will be more integrated and stable than one from marketplace.
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Click to collapse
I was hearing at one point that Google was looking to simplify the custom GUI creation (just a custom GUI xml that the manufacturer can push that the vanilla OS will honor) so that even if there are large changes underneath by Google, there is no change needed by the manufacturer prior to release (assuming the manufacturer is only making GUI changes and not anything deeper).
sparkym3 said:
I was hearing at one point that Google was looking to simplify the custom GUI creation (just a custom GUI xml that the manufacturer can push that the vanilla OS will honor) so that even if there are large changes underneath by Google, there is no change needed by the manufacturer prior to release (assuming the manufacturer is only making GUI changes and not anything deeper).
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that was what it was involving. thanks for pointing out those details.
Link doesn't work anymore!
I can't seem to find much on this, so I thought I'd ask the question. I personally use a Samsung Galaxy Nexus and was a previous owner of a Galaxy S1. I also sport an Apple Macbook Pro and I love the computer.
There's been a constant "reminder" from various articles how developing for iOS appeals to the developer more than doing so for Android.
This topic has spawned countless of times, and with the recent intro of Instagram to Android, that topic has been re-written once more to show why iOS is "dominant" among developers compared to Android. Article HERE.
Thing is, with all this talk about developing for iOS being better, I find myself asking "if that were true, then why do developers still develop for Android? If that were true, Instagram wouldn't even bother coming to Android...especially since it's free."
So what would make developers for Instagram want to make an app for Android when according to these articles:
Developing on Android is "harder" because it has to adapt to countless hardwares
Android developers make less than iOS developers
Do you develop for both iOS and Android? What's your take? What actually entices you to want to work on the Android platform?
It would be nice if a developer who works on both platforms can give some insights. Please no fanboy or anti-apple talk here...I am sure many of you Android users like me, would have had your friends who are iPhone users bring up such a topic on how they've read that developing for iOS is better, and you can't explain to them why people still make apps for Android cause there's little material online to covers that topic. I'm genuinely curious to know from a developer's perspective
Developers want to get their program out to as many people as possible so they develop for platforms where the customers are at. The two biggest phone operating systems right now are iOS and Android.
Developers choose iOS first because their is a lot less device diversity with iOS devices so developing an app is probably easier. It has also been shown that there is more money to be made selling iOS apps than Android apps which could be due to the fact that people who are on a tight budget may see an Android device as a better deal or may have a carrier that doesn't even sell the iPhone. Piracy is an issue on both platforms but it could be argued that Android is easier to pirate on since apks can be sideloaded without rooting where as iPhones have to be jailbroken. But sideloading apks is used for legit reasons as well, like testing betas, nightlies and other apps that aren't distributed through App Stores.
Android apps have to account for multiple screen resolutions, ratios, and densities. Most regular apps scale just fine. Games seem to be where there are the most issues and I really wish Google would address the issues. It seems each GPU type needs its own support (PowerVR, Nvidia, Adreno, etc). I really wish Google would implement something like DirectX so games can be played on any GPU with enough power. iOS has the advantage here because only a single GPU type is used, PowerVR I believe, so all games can be optimized for it. Couple that with the fact that iOS tends to bring in more money and this is why the game developers usually favor it over Android.
Thanks for the insight. I figured gaming would be difficult for developers but didn't understand why, I just naturally assumed that "if the app seems more complicated, it naturally equates to more complications making it run on various hardwares".
Am I right to say then that when tech reviewers write about how Developers favor iOS to Android, it's mostly pertaining to gaming?
What about non-gaming apps? Is reaching as many people as possible the only incentive to go Android? Take Whatsapp, or Instagram that recently came out...it's free on Android, it also has to deal with multiple hardwares (though now I'm assuming it's actually not as tough as it sounds to accomplish if the app's fairly simple)...is there an incentive for developers to create an Android App...cause the guys at Instagram or Whatsapp could have gone "Well there's nothing here for me, I'll just stick to iOS"...because from what I see, it looks like opening it to the Android market meant having to stress their servers with a sudden influx of users, which mean spending more money to maintain them so it doesn't slow down too much...it seems like a lose-lose situation from where I'm standing. =\
I guess for some apps, google ads are what keeps them going...like Draw Something. I do wonder though how Whatsapp and Instagram manages its upkeep when it doesnt have ads...and if the answer is that they use the money earned from iOS to manage their expansion, is it really worth it if the goal is just branding purposes.
If there is a market to reach developers will develop. Web developers had to put up with the terrible non standard supporting ie6 for years. It was a real pain to develop for but had a large user base that couldnt just be ignored. Android is the same way, developers go where they can reach the consumer. Luckily android its nowhere near as bad as ie6 was.
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spunker88 said:
If there is a market to reach developers will develop. Web developers had to put up with the terrible non standard supporting ie6 for years. It was a real pain to develop for but had a large user base that couldnt just be ignored. Android is the same way, developers go where they can reach the consumer. Luckily android its nowhere near as bad as ie6 was.
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the input! From your take, it seems like developers make apps for Android not because they want to, but they have to.
Do you or any of the developers reading this, can testify that there are some ups to developing on Android as compared to iOS.
Please use the Q&A Forum for questions &
Read the Forum Rules Ref Posting
Moving to Q&A
lufc said:
Please use the Q&A Forum for questions &
Read the Forum Rules Ref Posting
Moving to Q&A
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Click to collapse
Hi, sorry the topic may be [Q] but it's meant to generate comments and thoughts pertaining to the Android platform as per the sub header for Android General
Could it please be sent back to Android General? The Q&A section seems to be a place for people to post technical questions they need help solving.
Anyway, anyone else able to share their thoughts? Do you develop for both iOS and Android? It seems so far that people prefer to develop for iOS and lesser for Android, but they do it cause they have to as a means of reaching to the masses, but not really because they want to.
Anyone beg to differ? Do you have a reason why you actually prefer developing for Android over iOS?
Hi,
I'm a web developer, and when I decided to try mobile development, I made the choice to develop only for Android, for various reasons, but mainly because I'm not a fan of the Apple ecosystem.
This is not fanboyism here, I'm not bashing Apple, they make great products. But I prefer a fragmented ecosystem, with various companies, various devices, various app markets, etc. because this is a great source of opportunities. I also like the fact that android is open-source, leaving the availability to study the source code and hack around.
As for the difficulty to develop for various devices, I'd say that I'm used to it, being a web developer. Web devs are used to cope with various browsers (some of them being pretty old) and different screen sizes. See for example the mediaqueri.es site (cannot post link since I'm a new user)
thibaultj said:
Hi,
I'm a web developer, and when I decided to try mobile development, I made the choice to develop only for Android, for various reasons, but mainly because I'm not a fan of the Apple ecosystem.
This is not fanboyism here, I'm not bashing Apple, they make great products. But I prefer a fragmented ecosystem, with various companies, various devices, various app markets, etc. because this is a great source of opportunities. I also like the fact that android is open-source, leaving the availability to study the source code and hack around.
As for the difficulty to develop for various devices, I'd say that I'm used to it, being a web developer. Web devs are used to cope with various browsers (some of them being pretty old) and different screen sizes. See for example the mediaqueri.es site (cannot post link since I'm a new user)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your 2 cents! Am I right to assume that in fact, having to deal with different hardwares and screen sizes are actually a norm among developers before iOS came along? In other words, yes, Apple is right to say criticize that other platforms are harder to work with compared to iOS but that's because iOS is the exception among developing platforms where it's system is easier to work with?
spunker88 said:
I really wish Google would implement something like DirectX so games can be played on any GPU with enough power.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But Android and iOS already have something like DirectX - OpenGL ES 1.1 and 2.0.
The_R said:
But Android and iOS already have something like DirectX - OpenGL ES 1.1 and 2.0.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the additional input...if there always is a direct standard like Open GL in both iOS and Android, what's the difficult part about manufacturing games for Android?
iOS required Apple computer to install their development environment. And You must pay 99$ per year for being the official iOS developer..
ayen1234 said:
iOS required Apple computer to install their development environment. And You must pay 99$ per year for being the official iOS developer..
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I'd actually say that it is worth it.
yeahyeahright said:
Thanks for the additional input...if there always is a direct standard like Open GL in both iOS and Android, what's the difficult part about manufacturing games for Android?
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Click to collapse
I think its large number of the types of Android devices. It really isn't as simple as just supporting different screen sizes. Doing that is actually a really simple task using OpenGL.
With my own games I've experienced that what generally works on my test device won't necessarily work the same way on someone else's. For example, some devices support textures of any size while some devices have a constraint of the texture size being a power of 2. On many of my games which need multitouch, I've experienced that it doesn't always work the same on all devices either. On some it is downright broken while on other it just works fine.
There are many such other issues which you'd be aware of only after experiencing them.
The reason for this is the different hardware and the different software implementations that each phone manufacturer brings in. Even if the game "works" on a wide range of devices, there is always a different feel that you get when playing on a different device because of the hardware variations. You might get a good frame rate on a high end phone but have you tried playing it on a low end one? I've seen games from even the big publishers working fine on a high end phone but it just is completely glitchy on a low end one.
Now for a small developer with limited resources it can get really hard to test on and support as many devices as possible. This is one of the main reasons I feel that it can get really hard to develop games on Android. It just requires more effort if the developer wants to guarantee a good experience on a wide range of devices.
The other factor as stated before is that the iOS platform is more uniform. And moreover there are more people who are apparently willing to pay for your game on iOS than on Android. With one of my own games I've experienced that I've made more money in the last 10 days by selling it on the iOS App store than on Android in the last one year with ad revenues.
I actually started developing games on Android initially and one of the really big disappointments for me has been that I am not able to sell my games on the market(now Google Play) because Google checkout for merchants is only available in a few countries. This was the main reason for me to consider moving over to iOS. I think I could sell on a different market like the Amazon App store if I really wanted though.
Inspite of all that I'd say that Android is a great platform.
Wow thanks a lot for the insight! It's great to understand it from a developer's POV, especially one who works on both platforms.
I realise people do comment a lot about Android users less committed to pay for an app, I wonder why...I don't think it's due to their budget, my guess is that their afraid it may not work well on their devices...to that I think Google could really push hard and promote it's 15 minutes refund policy which I think a lot of users are not aware of....I use the 15 minute window a lot and it helps me to decide if something is worth my time buying or not.
I guess the "openness" of Android has allowed phone manufacturers to get really creative with their products (Touchwiz, Sense, Dual Screens, Qwerty Keypads etc) but at the same time, makes it harder for a developer to create stuff, probably even harder than creating stuff on a Windows Desktop.
Do any of you think that having "game settings" like you get on a Windows PC will help change this experience? Either one where the user gets to tweak the graphics (low, med, high) and performance, or perhaps one where the game will adjust graphics to the "recommended setting based on your hardware"? Is this even possible on Android or it's more complicated than you'd get on Windows?
yeahyeahright said:
Do any of you think that having "game settings" like you get on a Windows PC will help change this experience? Either one where the user gets to tweak the graphics (low, med, high) and performance, or perhaps one where the game will adjust graphics to the "recommended setting based on your hardware"? Is this even possible on Android or it's more complicated than you'd get on Windows?
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Click to collapse
Yeah, I have actually seen a few games that do that, and it does help. But it also requires some extra time and effort on the developer's part.
In some of my games too, I've added some simple settings in order to change the control schemes, so that if one of them doesn't work for you, you could choose the other one. Graphically, though, my games are really simple.
yeahyeahright said:
Thanks for your 2 cents! Am I right to assume that in fact, having to deal with different hardwares and screen sizes are actually a norm among developers before iOS came along? In other words, yes, Apple is right to say criticize that other platforms are harder to work with compared to iOS but that's because iOS is the exception among developing platforms where it's system is easier to work with?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Having to deal with different hardwares started to be a thing of the past, with the explosion of web apps. One platform for all, what a dream! Then came smartphones and tablets, and developing for a native platfrom became cool again.
Anyway, building for the web is still the only way to reach anyone with an internet access. The only problem with web apps is that it's harder to monetize. But the web's decentralized architecture is not a bug, it's a feature. That is what guarantees it's freedom and independance. You don't have such guarantees on a centralized market managed by a single company, whose first goal is profit.
Well, this post was slightly off-topic, sorry about that.
Thanks both of you for the really good insight. I guess Android is great as a supposedly "open" phone os, it certainly has a lot of hurdles to clear in order to please and entice developers the way iOS does, I'm not certain it can get there, but I do think they do make an effort, like the just upgraded emulator which shows Google's commitment to better developed apps (talk about timing!).
I'm certainly happy with my Android phone and from what I've read about the negative results developers gain from working on Android than on iOS, I take my hat off to those that stick around on this platform and try to make things happen. *clap*
=)
I choose Android for one reason. It's much cheaper. Only 25$ one time. iOS is 99$ every year
I am a product designer looking to develop new phone case accessories for the Android market. I have been working as part of a small startup for a few months. We have mostly been concentrating on Apple products thus far; mainly because of their popularity and availability of online design guides (schematic drawings provided by Apple).
We are looking to develop more Android phones because we've had a lot of requests to expand our line. My issues is that I cannot find any reliable and accurate schematics or 3D CAD for ANY Android phones that are currently available. :-/
Can anyone point me in the right direction of where to find measurements, drawings, accurate CAD (not for rendering only) models? Where do companies get their information from? Is it worth giving Samsung a phone call or email?
Any help is appreciated! Thanks