If I go with, lets say the OnePlus Type C cord, will I still get the faster data transfer speeds/fast charging as if I were using a straight USB type C cable? It seems as if you use a cable that isn't type C on both ends that you wouldn't be able to take advantage of the faster data transfer speeds. I would assume this also applies to the fast charging but I'm not sure...
Powell730 said:
If I go with, lets say the OnePlus Type C cord, will I still get the faster data transfer speeds/fast charging as if I were using a straight USB type C cable? It seems as if you use a cable that isn't type C on both ends that you wouldn't be able to take advantage of the faster data transfer speeds. I would assume this also applies to the fast charging but I'm not sure...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
USB data speed will be the same because the Nexus uses USB 2.0 transfer. You won't get fast charging with a type C to type A cable. The type A only has the 4 USB 2.0 pins, whereas fast charging utilizes the power bus of the type-c cable (extra pins). So you will need a type c charger to get full charging speed.
Skitals said:
USB data speed will be the same because the Nexus uses USB 2.0 transfer. You won't get fast charging with a type C to type A cable. The type A only has the 4 USB 2.0 pins, whereas fast charging utilizes the power bus of the type-c cable (extra pins). So you will need a type c charger to get full charging speed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
awesome, thanks for the response!
I have been looking for a type C to type C cable, any suggestion?
Powell730 said:
If I go with, lets say the OnePlus Type C cord, will I still get the faster data transfer speeds/fast charging as if I were using a straight USB type C cable? It seems as if you use a cable that isn't type C on both ends that you wouldn't be able to take advantage of the faster data transfer speeds. I would assume this also applies to the fast charging but I'm not sure...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/nexus-6p/general/usb-type-c-vs-usb-3-0-3-1-vs-usb-2-0-t3221676
The best you should get is about 2300-ish mA charging from type A connectors. Chances are you will get less. You will never get 3A from a type A port unless something has gone very wrong. See link for details.
---------- Post added at 11:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:42 PM ----------
Skitals said:
USB data speed will be the same because the Nexus uses USB 2.0 transfer. You won't get fast charging with a type C to type A cable. The type A only has the 4 USB 2.0 pins, whereas fast charging utilizes the power bus of the type-c cable (extra pins). So you will need a type c charger to get full charging speed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is correct. Good post. Thanks
Skitals said:
USB data speed will be the same because the Nexus uses USB 2.0 transfer. You won't get fast charging with a type C to type A cable. The type A only has the 4 USB 2.0 pins, whereas fast charging utilizes the power bus of the type-c cable (extra pins). So you will need a type c charger to get full charging speed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then why is the nexus engineer warning that C to A cables and adapters without the proper resistor will cause the device to attempt to pull 3 amps through the cable and burn up the charger? Seems he is saying pins or no pins it's going to attempt to pull 3 amps.
Using an OEM Samsung fast charger with this cord:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B013187HZS/ref=cm_sw_r_other_awd_eJIpwbAMNJ231
I got these results:
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
Compared to these results with the OEM Nexus 6P charger:
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Powell730 said:
If I go with, lets say the OnePlus Type C cord, will I still get the faster data transfer speeds/fast charging as if I were using a straight USB type C cable? It seems as if you use a cable that isn't type C on both ends that you wouldn't be able to take advantage of the faster data transfer speeds. I would assume this also applies to the fast charging but I'm not sure...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Almost any definite answer you get is wrong because Google has decline to say what the did and full testing has not been completed There are 2 parts to this equation.
1. What is possible to deliver over an A to C connection
2. What the phone will do
As to the first, yes you can get 3A over A to C. The problem has been that there just are not any 5V/3A A port chargers out there. Companies have been making "over charging' chargers for years. I've been able to get 2.6Amp to the phone over an A to C charger limited by the charger capability.
As for part 2, the first thing the phone does when a cable is attached is to determine what type of facing port it is attached to. In this case, it will be a Dedicated Charging Port (DCP). It will check voltage on pin CC and determine it is not a C port and therefore not able to negotiate a power contract in that manner. Type C specs then require it to draw no more than default power (500mA) for USB 2.0. If the device wants more current, it is obligated to monitor voltage on the bus to determine if more current is available. Hence, the device should never over draw the charger.
On the charger side, it will monitor the current draw and limit itself via a maximum current setpoint beyond which it will shut down. If the PD (Portable Device) is designed appropriately, it won't ever hit that because it is monitoring Voltage and the voltage drop will tell the PD to limit the current it is drawing to maintain vREF.
What is really unknown is what is the exact trigger for the "Charging Rapidly" in the lock screen. I get it under 3A.
Recommendation: Use A to C if you need multiple charger ports to support other devices. Don't get bent around the axle over getting all 3A. Use C-C if you only need one port. And in the future, the whole world will be Type C so your investment will last longer. But don't believe that 3A will be widely used. It is a design requirement in the Type C spec, but not a power standard in the USB spec. For example, the Lumia 950XL and Sony Z5 both are Type C and are reported to use Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0. which top out at 2A at 5V (though can do 12V/1.5A).
Good Test - Get a Male Type C to Female Micro B adapter. Put it on the end of the Type C to Micro B cable plugged into the Google supplied Charger and see what you get!
dwswager said:
Almost any definite answer you get is wrong because Google has decline to say what the did and full testing has not been completed There are 2 parts to this equation.
1. What is possible to deliver over an A to C connection
2. What the phone will do
As to the first, yes you can get 3A over A to C. The problem has been that there just are not any 5V/3A A port chargers out there. Companies have been making "over charging' chargers for years. I've been able to get 2.6Amp to the phone over an A to C charger limited by the charger capability.
As for part 2, the first thing the phone does when a cable is attached is to determine what type of facing port it is attached to. In this case, it will be a Dedicated Charging Port (DCP). It will check voltage on pin CC and determine it is not a C port and therefore not able to negotiate a power contract in that manner. Type C specs then require it to draw no more than default power (500mA) for USB 2.0. If the device wants more current, it is obligated to monitor voltage on the bus to determine if more current is available. Hence, the device should never over draw the charger.
On the charger side, it will monitor the current draw and limit itself via a maximum current setpoint beyond which it will shut down. If the PD (Portable Device) is designed appropriately, it won't ever hit that because it is monitoring Voltage and the voltage drop will tell the PD to limit the current it is drawing to maintain vREF.
What is really unknown is what is the exact trigger for the "Charging Rapidly" in the lock screen. I get it under 3A.
Recommendation: Use A to C if you need multiple charger ports to support other devices. Don't get bent around the axle over getting all 3A. Use C-C if you only need one port. And in the future, the whole world will be Type C so your investment will last longer. But don't believe that 3A will be widely used. It is a design requirement in the Type C spec, but not a power standard in the USB spec. For example, the Lumia 950XL and Sony Z5 both are Type C and are reported to use Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0. which top out at 2A at 5V (though can do 12V/1.5A).
Good Test - Get a Male Type C to Female Micro B adapter. Put it on the end of the Type C to Micro B cable plugged into the Google supplied Charger and see what you get!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Google supplied type c to a cable says charging slowly when plugged into a PC which makes sense since type a should only pull 500ma from the port
The orzly cable that Benson tested shows me it says charging rapidly in that same port..
My other cable that I bought from a local electronics store shows "charging" only.. What does that mean? Is that a good sign that it won't damage up my port/charger/phone?
Thanks
All this is so confusing for first gen adopters to these types of cables haha
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
xxsashixx said:
The Google supplied type c to a cable says charging slowly when plugged into a PC which makes sense since type a should only pull 500ma from the port
The orzly cable that Benson tested shows me it says charging rapidly in that same port..
My other cable that I bought from a local electronics store shows "charging" only.. What does that mean? Is that a good sign that it won't damage up my port/charger/phone?
Thanks
All this is so confusing for first gen adopters to these types of cables haha
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What this tells me 1st and foremost is don't go by what the lock screen says.
A USB 2.0 port on a computer motherboard is only going to output 500mA as you found out. A USB 3.0 port on a motherboard can output up to 900mA.
This is what Benson is saying. The Orzly cable is improperly designed such that it signals to the PD that it is 3A so I suspect that is why the 6P is showing Charging Rapidly.
Best way to test what is going on is to use a multimeter to test the current flow, but that means cutting open the wires or using a special plug with terminals. The next best thing is to use a battery app to see what the app says the draw is. This won't be as accurate and you should allow a minute for the device to come to full draw and the app to update.
Personally, I am almost 2 days on a charge where my previous phone required a late afternoon recharge so I am not all that keyed up over fast charging. It is nice, but as long as my phone is usable, not as big a deal because I recharge every night.
dwswager said:
What this tells me 1st and foremost is don't go by what the lock screen says.
A USB 2.0 port on a computer motherboard is only going to output 500mA as you found out. A USB 3.0 port on a motherboard can output up to 900mA.
This is what Benson is saying. The Orzly cable is improperly designed such that it signals to the PD that it is 3A so I suspect that is why the 6P is showing Charging Rapidly.
Best way to test what is going on is to use a multimeter to test the current flow, but that means cutting open the wires or using a special plug with terminals. The next best thing is to use a battery app to see what the app says the draw is. This won't be as accurate and you should allow a minute for the device to come to full draw and the app to update.
Personally, I am almost 2 days on a charge where my previous phone required a late afternoon recharge so I am not all that keyed up over fast charging. It is nice, but as long as my phone is usable, not as big a deal because I recharge every night.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't care about fast charging I just want to make sure the cable doesn't damage my phone from overcharging or what not.
Plus all the good cables are either oos or won't ship to Canada and are overly expensive..
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
xxsashixx said:
I don't care about fast charging I just want to make sure the cable doesn't damage my phone from overcharging or what not.
Plus all the good cables are either oos or won't ship to Canada and are overly expensive..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then no worries. The Google Guy's whole point about the cables was that the phone might try to draw more current than the charger can supply and damage the Upstream Facing Port (read that as the charger). But any decent charger has overcurrent protection so neither the phone, nor the charger are in any danger.
dwswager said:
Then no worries. ... But any decent charger has overcurrent protection so neither the phone, nor the charger are in any danger.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to take exception to this. You keep saying people will be fine, there are protections in place, etc... But I have serious doubts if these protections are meant to be engaged every time a user plugs in. It's like saying it's OK to drive 120mph in a busy 45mph zone, because I'm wearing a seatbelt.
Further, I think you are doing a disservice to the community by posting that it's OK to use products that are clearly out of specification. If pulling more current than a charger could handle wasn't dangerous, they wouldn't be designed with some type of protection measures. As such, saying "neither the phone, nor the charger are in any danger" is patently false.
Elnrik said:
I have to take exception to this. You keep saying people will be fine, there are protections in place, etc... But I have serious doubts if these protections are meant to be engaged every time a user plugs in. It's like saying it's OK to drive 120mph in a busy 45mph zone, because I'm wearing a seatbelt.
Further, I think you are doing a disservice to the community by posting that it's OK to use products that are clearly out of specification. If pulling more current than a charger could handle wasn't dangerous, they wouldn't be designed with some type of protection measures. As such, saying "neither the phone, nor the charger are in any danger" is patently false.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look, I think all devices should be designed in spec and wish the USB Forum would more strictly enforce the specifications. But the 6P is obligated, when it can't negotiate a valid power contract which it can't do with a USB Type A port, to use default power and if it wants more current to monitor the voltage on the bus to determine if more power is available. Hence, if it immediately begins drawing 3A, or it does not reduce current draw when the buss drops below vREF, then the 6P itself is out of spec!
Both sides of the equation, Device and Charger have responsibilities and protections in place. If we were discussing plugging a 10A charger into a 3A device, I would be a little more concerned. But we are discussing plugging a 2A charger into a device capable of using 0-3A.
I also would be a little more concerned if dozens of people weren't already using these cables with less than 3A Type A chargers with no problem. The phones and chargers are doing what they are supposed to do.
That it's perhaps the single most disjointed rebuttal I think I've ever read. It also completely deflects from my point that you are giving bad advice and doing the community a disservice... But hey, I'll play along. Let's break down your reply into intelligible pieces to see if there is any sense to be had.
dwswager said:
Look, I think all devices should be designed in spec and wish the USB Forum would more strictly enforce the specifications.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed.
But the 6P is obligated,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All components using licensed USB technology are obligated to follow specifications.
when it can't negotiate a valid power contract which it can't do with a USB Type A port,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It can negotiate power with Type-A ports just fine using cables which follow specifications. The port and the phone are not at issue here, no matter how much you want them to be.
to use default power and if it wants more current to monitor the voltage on the bus to determine if more power is available
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is monitoring voltage, but it cannot know current ratings of the system it is connected to without a marker or sign post, which is where the out of spec cable is defeating this process.
Hence, if it immediately begins drawing 3A, or it does not reduce current draw when the buss drops below vREF, then the 6P itself is out of spec!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So the 6p is out of spec itself when it is being told, by an out of spec cable, that it is safe to draw 3A?
Both sides of the equation, Device and Charger have responsibilities and protections in place.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Conviently forgetting the cable.
If we were discussing plugging a 10A charger into a 3A device, I would be a little more concerned.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, that would be safe because the 10A device could safely provide 3A.
But we are discussing plugging a 2A charger into a device capable of using 0-3A.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which is unsafe, because MATH. 3 > 2
I also would be a little more concerned if dozens of people weren't already using these cables with less than 3A Type A chargers with no problem. The phones and chargers are doing what they are supposed to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is just something fundamentally wrong with this way of thinking. I'd be a little more concerned if we had any damaged property, fires, or deaths, but since we haven't yet, everything must be OK. That's great.
Elnrik said:
That it's perhaps the single most disjointed rebuttal I think I've ever read. It also completely deflects from my point that you are giving bad advice and doing the community a disservice... But hey, I'll play along. Let's break down your reply into intelligible pieces to see if there is any sense to be had.
Agreed.
All components using licensed USB technology are obligated to follow specifications.
It can negotiate power with Type-A ports just fine using cables which follow specifications. The port and the phone are not at issue here, no matter how much you want them to be.
It is monitoring voltage, but it cannot know current ratings of the system it is connected to without a marker or sign post, which is where the out of spec cable is defeating this process.
So the 6p is out of spec itself when it is being told, by an out of spec cable, that it is safe to draw 3A?
Conviently forgetting the cable.
Well, that would be safe because the 10A device could safely provide 3A.
Which is unsafe, because MATH. 3 > 2
There is just something fundamentally wrong with this way of thinking. I'd be a little more concerned if we had any damaged property, fires, or deaths, but since we haven't yet, everything must be OK. That's great.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The USB Type A port has only 4 pins. VDD (+5V), D- (Data-)-, D+ (Data+) and GND (Ground). No way for a Type C device to use the CC channel to negotiate. It knows it is plugged into a legacy facing port.
The PD knows if more power is available or not by monitoring the voltage of the bus. If the PD trys to draw more power than the charger is capable of delivering, then the bus voltage will deviate from reference specs. As long as the charger is capable of supplying the current requested, it will be able to maintain the voltage within reference specifications. This is why the Tronsmart guy says his 2.4A will deliver 2.7A. It has enough margin capacity to maintain proper voltage over it's rated amperage up to about 2.7A.
I love my 6P and think it is the best Android phone on the market. But there are things that could be improved. I would like 2 fingerprint sensors, one back and one front, but if you are only giving me one on a phone this big, it would be better on the front. And 5V/3A was a mistake. It is a cheaper solution to faster charging. What does it say when the 2 port charger from Google is not 30W and they have no 15Watt (5V/3A) car charger available at all.
dwswager said:
As long as the charger is capable of supplying the current requested, it will be able to maintain the voltage within reference specifications. This is why the Tronsmart guy says his 2.4A will deliver 2.7A. It has enough margin capacity to maintain proper voltage over it's rated amperage up to about 2.7A.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great for Tronsmart. Not so good for users when they use that cable to transfer data or charge on a laptop, USB hub, or other data centric / non-charger type device and the current ramps up to 3A on a generic USB 2.0, 500mA, Type A port and fries something.
You're arguing that the phone should monitor what it could / should be able to pull from the port. I'm arguing that the USB specs are more complicated that that, which are the specs the phone follows, that the legacy ports and charging protocols follow, and is the current real-life facts of the situtation - not wishful thinking or hypothesizing of what it should or could do.
Elnrik said:
Great for Tronsmart. Not so good for users when they use that cable to transfer data or charge on a laptop, USB hub, or other data centric / non-charger type device and the current ramps up to 3A on the USB 2.0 500mA Type A port and fries something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When you get a report of a port getting fried, will you please post it here. The more data we have, the better.
dwswager said:
When you get a report of a port getting fried, will you please post it here. The more data we have, the better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*sigh* People, don't use non-complaint cables, ok?
A Google engineer has publicly stated in several places that it is not safe and has even posted instructions on how to test for it.
PC Magazine even ran an article on it.
Hell... Common sense should tell you messing around with improper charging currents and voltages isn't safe.
Elnrik said:
*sigh* People, don't use non-complaint cables, ok?
A Google engineer has publicly stated in several places that it is not safe and has even posted instructions on how to test for it.
PC Magazine even ran an article on it.
Hell... Common sense should tell you messing around with improper charging currents and voltages isn't safe.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*Sigh* This reminds me of all the negative Nexus 6P case reviews concerning the Laser Auto Focus by people without the phone or the case. They heard something on the internet and parroted it in review after review. Even the PC Magazine online entry is only a news items that repeats Benson's statements. No reporting of incidents, no comment from any company, including Google.
Has Google made an official statement? If this was such a big issue, does it not behoove Google to warn it's users?
I do not support manufacturers making out of spec equipment, including cables. Only that this is a whole lot of concern without a single verified case of incident.
Related
Greetings Devs.
I found this software which promises to charge i products faster. So why not the nook? I know it works with the ipad/iphone/itouch, but not the NC (or anything else for that matter). I was looking in the ini file and managed to match up the class id of each product, and then I found the id for the NC and added this line:
HKLM, System\CurrentControlSet\Control\Class\{3f966bd9-fa04-4ec5-991c-d326973b5128}, LowerFilters, %REG_MULTI_SZ_APPEND%, AiCharger
To both the install and uninstall filter. However, I cannot tell if it pushes extra power to just the ipad, or if it does to all of them.
Ideas? Tried digging around the sys file in hex, but nothing found. I think it would be nice if we could boost output a bit
USB Standard is 500mAh. If you somehow force your port to deliver more power you could fry it.
khaytsus said:
USB Standard is 500mAh. If you somehow force your port to deliver more power you could fry it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well yeah, but no one is at least curious if this could help out at all? Maybe hardware manufactures cap it @ 5V, .5A and they override it? Maybe it provides a steadier draw somehow? Maybe they draw more power from the rails for powered-usb slots?
ace7196 said:
Well yeah, but no one is at least curious if this could help out at all? Maybe hardware manufactures cap it @ 5V, .5A and they override it? Maybe it provides a steadier draw somehow? Maybe they draw more power from the rails for powered-usb slots?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Charging more than 500ma through the USB hardware is bad.
Lithium batteries charge at full amperage over the entire charge cycle, and just turn off the charge when they hit a certain voltage (~3.6v per cell on lipo IIRC?)
I don't think there is anything you can do from the computer side unless it tells the device itself to pull the full 500ma when it would try to pull less (for fear of overloading a USB interface, as there are usually 2 ports per USB port on a computer (IIRC.)
IMO, just use a powered USB hub?
Winmo custom roms had a quick-charge feature built in to a lot of them.
I don't think anyone fried anything.
This thread belongs in QnA though unless the op is actually developing something.
Did any naysayers even bother to look at the link? It is for Asus brand mobos only. And only certain ones are supported. Surely Asus isn't going to release an app that would fry the port...
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
lafester said:
Winmo custom roms had a quick-charge feature built in to a lot of them.
I don't think anyone fried anything.
This thread belongs in QnA though unless the op is actually developing something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thinking of developing the software for it...
Syco54645 said:
Did any naysayers even bother to look at the link? It is for Asus brand mobos only. And only certain ones are supported. Surely Asus isn't going to release an app that would fry the port...
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As pointed out here, this is not JUST simply software. This is the software portion of a hardware feature on Asus motherboards. The boards have a separate controller in them that allows more amperage to specific USB ports for the purpose of charging particular, high amperage items (ipad, iphone) only. As also stated here, the USB standard is a fixed 5V .5A and this isn't something that can simply be modified via software as the controllers themselves would have problems managing higher draws (not really the physical ports).
The only application this would have would be to users with those specific boards IF the software can be hacked to allow that amperage on the Nook. It may also be worth mentioning that the Nook's internal connector is different and the higher power provided by the wall charger is not over the standard USB VCC pins on the connector. I'm not familiar enough with the wiring inside the device to say for certain, but the standard charge connections from USB may be a different path than the wall charger on a charge controller.
Quick Edit: This actually doesn't appear to be the same as their hardware specific version, which most likely makes it even less useful. It looks like this enables charging in multiple standby modes and most likely forces the port to full amperage; which is typically only done after the device negotiates with the system, initial port power is much lower. My device manager shows the Nook pulling it's full 500mA already, so unless you're trying to do a lot of charging while your computer is in standby, this isn't gonna be of much use.
Edit 2: Quick bounce around the internet shows this app as causing a bit of instability and BSODs. May not be everyone, so if you're still testing this let us know if you're stable.
Infraded said:
As pointed out here, this is not JUST simply software. This is the software portion of a hardware feature on Asus motherboards. The boards have a separate controller in them that allows more amperage to specific USB ports for the purpose of charging particular, high amperage items (ipad, iphone) only. As also stated here, the USB standard is a fixed 5V .5A and this isn't something that can simply be modified via software as the controllers themselves would have problems managing higher draws (not really the physical ports).
The only application this would have would be to users with those specific boards IF the software can be hacked to allow that amperage on the Nook. It may also be worth mentioning that the Nook's internal connector is different and the higher power provided by the wall charger is not over the standard USB VCC pins on the connector. I'm not familiar enough with the wiring inside the device to say for certain, but the standard charge connections from USB may be a different path than the wall charger on a charge controller.
Quick Edit: This actually doesn't appear to be the same as their hardware specific version, which most likely makes it even less useful. It looks like this enables charging in multiple standby modes and most likely forces the port to full amperage; which is typically only done after the device negotiates with the system, initial port power is much lower. My device manager shows the Nook pulling it's full 500mA already, so unless you're trying to do a lot of charging while your computer is in standby, this isn't gonna be of much use.
Edit 2: Quick bounce around the internet shows this app as causing a bit of instability and BSODs. May not be everyone, so if you're still testing this let us know if you're stable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have to use the nook's cable to quick charge. I believe it's the same on the USB side but different on the NC side.
Thanks Infraded for the helpful reply. I did a quick search and it seemed it caused more trouble than it's worth (BSOD, etc). I'll dig deeper.
I had the same issues with my iPad. If your motherboard vendor supports it, they have a BIOS update that adjusts the USB ports to charge things like the Nook and iPad.
khaytsus said:
USB Standard is 500mAh. If you somehow force your port to deliver more power you could fry it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some dell laptops (my 5400 has it) have an option in bios for USB Power Share, where they allow USB devices which know if they are connected to to wall chargers or USB plugs to charge as if they were on wall chargers.
Its epic win.
In the NC teardown, didn't they discover that the Nook Color actually uses a custom micro USB connector which is backwards compatible with the standard? It goes on to say that the NC charges only through a pair of 12V pins on the USB cable that is provided with it out of the box, and in fact when you connect your NC to your computer it is *not charging at all* even if your ROM says it is. This is consistent with my experience where the battery only goes down when plugged into my PC.
Needless to say you would need some pretty serious hardware hacks to get your PC pumping 12 volts to the USB cable.
mthe0ry said:
In the NC teardown, didn't they discover that the Nook Color actually uses a custom micro USB connector which is backwards compatible with the standard? It goes on to say that the NC charges only through a pair of 12V pins on the USB cable that is provided with it out of the box, and in fact when you connect your NC to your computer it is *not charging at all* even if your ROM says it is. This is consistent with my experience where the battery only goes down when plugged into my PC.
Needless to say you would need some pretty serious hardware hacks to get your PC pumping 12 volts to the USB cable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Um, no. The wall charger puts out 5 volts @ 1.9 Amps. Take a close look at the bottom of your own charger...specs are right there. Supposedly, the nook will only charge when the amperage is at least 1.9 amps. In practice it will charge as much as can minus the current it is drawing...usually more than a standard port can put out(.5A).
ie standard port = .5A
Nook draw is ~ .45A
total for charging is .05A....barely noticeable or in worst case not even enough to keep up.
Not to mention that many ports shut down entirely if they think they are sending out to much current.
send 12 volts into your nook and you will have found one of the few ways to brick it
edit: what these"hacks" for the usb ports do is raise the limiting on them to higher values..say 5 volts @ 1A or rarely 1.5A
Two of SMSC's family of transceivers supports up to 1.5A from dedicated charger ports.
Furthermore, I'm charging my nook color from my netbook right now with a standard non-OEM usb cable. So I don't think you need the standard one
Some basic info here:
http://www.smsc.com/media/Downloads/Product_Brochures/usb333x_334xfs.pdf
ace7196 said:
Two of SMSC's family of transceivers supports up to 1.5A from dedicated charger ports.
Furthermore, I'm charging my nook color from my netbook right now with a standard non-OEM usb cable. So I don't think you need the standard one
Some basic info here:
http://www.smsc.com/media/Downloads/Product_Brochures/usb333x_334xfs.pdf
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Yeah, I'm thinking that the extra pins in the stock cable are mostly for the led in there. Going back to work monday and ordering a spare for teardown purposes with my first check. I'll let you all know exactly what I find out.
mthe0ry said:
In the NC teardown, didn't they discover that the Nook Color actually uses a custom micro USB connector which is backwards compatible with the standard? It goes on to say that the NC charges only through a pair of 12V pins on the USB cable that is provided with it out of the box, and in fact when you connect your NC to your computer it is *not charging at all* even if your ROM says it is. This is consistent with my experience where the battery only goes down when plugged into my PC.
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Except that it does charge on ANY source. If the NC is running and active it uses MORE CURRENT THAN 500mAh, so it won't charge any, but it's still getting 500mAh of juice.
If you turn off the screen, it'll slowly charge.... Around 10%/hr.
And I suspect that the 1.9A from the stock charger+cable comes from all 3 pairs, the standard pair + the two extra in the B&N cable, but it's possible that the stock cable only charges the extra two pairs. Regardless, it does charge from a standard cable on any USB port. The B&N ROM does not show charging unless it's charging at 1.9A.
ace7196 said:
Two of SMSC's family of transceivers supports up to 1.5A from dedicated charger ports.
Furthermore, I'm charging my nook color from my netbook right now with a standard non-OEM usb cable. So I don't think you need the standard one
Some basic info here:
http://www.smsc.com/media/Downloads/Product_Brochures/usb333x_334xfs.pdf
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Click to collapse
I can also confirm nook will charge off a standard USB (at least while I've got CM7), using the stock BN cable, and definitely faster than 10%/hour. Have been doing so off my work computer for a while now. I recall that this did NOT work while the NC was virgin unrooted, however, although occasionally there'd be this weird "bump" in batt level to 100% when first connecting. Have not seen that effect since going to CM7.
last night as a test I let my nook go to 10% remaining. Then I used my daughters LG Ally cable on the stock charger for 1 hour. It charged to 24%. Then I drained back to 10% and used the stock cable for 1 hour...result?....44%. There IS something special with the stock cable. I don't think there is any magic to the charger other than the amperage.
deadbot1 said:
last night as a test I let my nook go to 10% remaining. Then I used my daughters LG Ally cable on the stock charger for 1 hour. It charged to 24%. Then I drained back to 10% and used the stock cable for 1 hour...result?....44%. There IS something special with the stock cable. I don't think there is any magic to the charger other than the amperage.
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Uh.. Yeah. As said a hundred times, the cable has 4 extra pins for charging on the MicroUSB side.
i bought two extra usb cables from amazon, i can't link to them since i don't have enough posts yet, but they're the "EMPIRE USB Data Cable for Verizon HTC ThunderBolt" from amazon
i intentionally looked for some that said for use with thunderbolt in case there was something different than just a micro-usb cable; however, it does not seem that these cables charge as well as the cable that ships. it takes several hours even when trying to charge with the original AC adapter using one of these cables vs the ~1.5-2 hours with the cable that comes with. When trying to use a computer or a car adapter it just holds the charge steady, if using navigation it actually drops battery while plugged in!
is there something i'm missing here? they should all be the same right? can anyone point me to some that actually work? (preferably from amazon since i have gift cards there)
I've had the same problem.
Make sure you are getting the correct voltage. I think my issues are that USB is a slower charge than outlets and the "extra" charger I had was for my bluetooth which had a lower voltage.
strobieone said:
I've had the same problem.
Make sure you are getting the correct voltage. I think my issues are that USB is a slower charge than outlets and the "extra" charger I had was for my bluetooth which had a lower voltage.
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yeah, i understand that usb from the computer will be a lower voltage, which is what i thought the issue was at first. but then i tried using the original AC adapter with the replacement usb cable and it was slower than the original cable. i don't see why the cable would make a difference, but it definitely appears to.
i downloaded the current widget and can see that just swapping between the OEM cable and the aftermarket cable the charging current is quite different. ~+600ma with the OEM and -100ma to +300ma with the aftermarket (yes at times it was LOSING charge while plugged in using the aftermarket)
roppetty said:
yeah, i understand that usb from the computer will be a lower voltage, which is what i thought the issue was at first. but then i tried using the original AC adapter with the replacement usb cable and it was slower than the original cable. i don't see why the cable would make a difference, but it definitely appears to.
i downloaded the current widget and can see that just swapping between the OEM cable and the aftermarket cable the charging current is quite different. ~+600ma with the OEM and -100ma to +300ma with the aftermarket (yes at times it was LOSING charge while plugged in using the aftermarket)
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You should never use any other cable than the one provided with your Thunderbolt. On the site it may say that it "Works" with the Thunderbolt but that doesn't mean you are going to get the performance you need out of it. I have had that problem plenty of times with older cables and sadly it keeps me buying the slightly overpriced cables from Verizon so I know that I get what I need.
roppetty said:
yeah, i understand that usb from the computer will be a lower voltage, which is what i thought the issue was at first. but then i tried using the original AC adapter with the replacement usb cable and it was slower than the original cable. i don't see why the cable would make a difference, but it definitely appears to.
i downloaded the current widget and can see that just swapping between the OEM cable and the aftermarket cable the charging current is quite different. ~+600ma with the OEM and -100ma to +300ma with the aftermarket (yes at times it was LOSING charge while plugged in using the aftermarket)
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It sounds like a defective cable. Check to see how it's charging (AC or USB). If it says USB when connected to the HTC charger, the cable is bad.
I use micro-USB cables I got from Monoprice, no problems.
mike.s said:
It sounds like a defective cable. Check to see how it's charging (AC or USB). If it says USB when connected to the HTC charger, the cable is bad.
I use micro-USB cables I got from Monoprice, no problems.
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It's not defective, it's just not designed for charging. OP, always make sure it says it is a charger cable, not a data cable, when you buy one.
WeaselWeaz said:
It's not defective, it's just not designed for charging.
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BS. You have no clue what you're talking about. The TB follows the USB charging specification.
The thing about USB (Universal serial bus) cables is that they are UNIVERSAL. It doesn't matter where you get them from, what they say, or what they are branded. They have to meet certain specs (including materials and current capacity) in order to get the USB label.
If you're having a problem, I am 99% sure the cable is not the issue.
Try out monoprice.com. I've used them for years. You can get 3 wall chargers, 5 USB cables and 2 car chargers (all 1A) for like $25, shipped.
Edit: QFT
mike.s said:
BS. You have no clue what you're talking about. The TB follows the USB charging specification.
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necosino said:
The thing about USB (Universal serial bus) cables is that they are UNIVERSAL. It doesn't matter where you get them from, what they say, or what they are branded. They have to meet certain specs (including materials and current capacity) in order to get the USB label.
If you're having a problem, I am 99% sure the cable is not the issue.
Try out monoprice.com. I've used them for years. You can get 3 wall chargers, 5 USB cables and 2 car chargers (all 1A) for like $25, shipped.
Edit: QFT
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yeah, i'm with you, that's why i posed to see if there was something i'm missing and didn't know about. i'm a computer engineer so i know a cable is a cable is a cable, which is why i was like wtf when these didn't work the same.
thanks all, at least i know i didn't miss something and these should work the same.
ive had this problem on every phone. takes forever to charge through usb.
A USB cable is a USB cable is a USB cable is a USB cable.
If you are doing seat of your pants checks on charging, etc, they are never going to be accurate. CPU usage, network usage, etc while the phone is charging will affect how quickly it does charge. The stock charger provides 1000mA to charge the device, if you are using it, or another app is doing something (downloading data, using cpu, etc) it will not charge as quickly because power is being drained as it is being charged.
There is too much that would cause a slower charge state that you can't compensate for by a seat of the pants judgement on charging.
Its all about the mA.
No, thats not a storm. Its just my Thunderbolt layin down this post.
I have the same issue. I have tried four different usb cables with the oem charger and only two charge normally, the oem and one that I had with an old phone that I put a mini to micro adapter on to fit. The other two, one actually micro one mini to micro adapted, charge extremely slow. Yes a cable is a cable, but given I use the oem charger, the only differing things are the cables.
For what it's worth, I hate to burst your bubbles but not all USB cables are equal. And, in fact, not all phones are optimized for USB cables. Just because a cable looks like a USB cable and works as a USB cable doesn't mean that it is ONLY a USB cable. There are quite a few devices out there that can be charged (albeit slowly) with a USB cable but can be charged quickly with a cable that you only think is a USB cable. Take the Nook Color, for instance. The cable that it comes with looks like a USB cable on all accounts, but it's not. I forget which (both are techniques currently used) but either it has extra pins or has a data pin repurposed to provide additional power so it can charge faster. There are quite a few devices out there that are like this, and it seems like the number of these devices just keep growing and growing.
Now these "non-USB" devices still support USB standards, and can be charged via USB standard cables. However, they are optimized for non-USB standards and charge faster with these non-USB cables.
I'm honestly not sure if our Thunderbolts are such a device or not, and if the cables that they come with are such cables. They very well could be, and what the OP claims goes along with that theory. But honestly, I simply do not know.
EDIT:
Oh, and one more example. Go take a look at the custom "USB" cables that Team Blackhat had made that can power Motorola devices in CWM without a battery in the device. This is yet another example of where a USB cable isn't a USB cable.
Having the data pins connected to 5v sources is part of the charger itself; it has nothing to do with the cable.
Every USB cable has 4 pins: two 5v+, a gnd and a 5v- if the second + and - aren't connected to a source in the charger, you will only get a 0.5A charge, and it will go slow. If the charger DOES have them connected, you get the full 1A, and a much faster charge.
If the charger or cable is anything different then it is not USB. End of story. I know some phones have extra pins in the USB location for video out, for example, but those don't interfere with the standard USB pins.
Sent from my ThunderBolt using Tapatalk
necosino said:
Every USB cable has 4 pins: two 5v+, a gnd and a 5v-
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Wrong, kinda. Check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nook_Color#USB_port
The Nook Color uses a modified connector with two depths. The first depth is compatible with micro-usb (5-conductor), while the second depth has 12 conductors. This change was made to increase the amount of power available to charge the larger battery of the Nook Color when using the included cable.
Because of this, the USB cable included with the Nook Color is physically incompatible with other devices employing standard micro-usb connectors. However, the Nook Color itself is physically compatible with standard micro-usb cords.
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Now I realize that calling this a "USB Cable" might be stretching the definition of "USB Cable" (hence the "wrong, kinda" comment) but more than likely, most people have no clue that one cable is different than another, so the end result is that, for all practical purposes, we DO have different types of USB cables.
necosino said:
Every USB cable has 4 pins: two 5v+, a gnd and a 5v- if the second + and - aren't connected to a source in the charger, you will only get a 0.5A charge, and it will go slow. If the charger DOES have them connected, you get the full 1A, and a much faster charge.
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Click to collapse
Close, but not quite.
The pins are +5, Ground, +D and -D. All power is drawn through the +5 and Ground lines. The D lines are used for data transfer.
Per the USB specifications, a device can only draw 100 mA without enumerating (negotiating via USB, implies both ends have "intelligence"). If it can enumerate, it can negotiate for up to 500 mA (e.g. plugged into a PC which has a "driver" which recognizes the phone).
There are also specifications for DCPs (Dedicated Charging Ports). For these, the D+ and D- pins (the center two in a full sized USB connector) on the charger must be connected together with no more than 200 Ohms. These ports must provide at least 500 mA, but can provide more (micro-USB connectors are rated to 1.8 A). That's how the phone knows it can draw more than 100 mA from a "dumb" power adapter.
The TB follows the USB charging spec. Here are some things that can happen.
If it's plugged into a charger which doesn't follow the USB spec (D+ and D- not connected together, these are fairly common), it can only draw 100 mA. It doesn't matter if you bought a "2.5 Amp USB charger," if the charger doesn't follow the spec, a device which does isn't supposed to draw more than 100 mA. That's enough to charge it very slowly when the screen is off and it's idling. If the phone is doing anything, the battery will actually be discharging. This is a problem which seems to be common with many car chargers. A lot of device will ignore the 100 mA spec limit, and draw whatever they can, which is why they will charge from an improper adapter.
It's plugged into a PC with no driver - same thing.
It's plugged into a PC with a driver - it can negotiate and pull 500 mA. This is enough to charge while running in almost all cases (it might be on the edge if streaming video via 4G with GPS on, etc.) It will charge, but not as fast as it could.
For all of the above, a TB will show "USB" as the charging type.
It's plugged into a USB DCP. By spec, these must be able to deliver at least 500 mA. The AC adapter shipped with the TB is marked 1.0 A, and the phone won't draw more than 1.0 A (the most I've seen it use to charge the battery is ~800 mA). This will allows the fastest charging. With a DCP, the TB will show "AC" as the charging type.
Cables can have the same effect - all USB cables are supposed to be basically the same. But, some manufacturer's play loose with the spec. They may have "USB" cables with resistors or other changes inside which signal different things to a device. They may not have proper gauge wiring. It may just be a bad cable. Etc.
I've charged the TB with the stock AC charger using both the stock cable, and one I got from Monoprice. Works fine. I've also got a USB hub I converted to a charging station (follows the spec for USB dedicated charging ports), and that works fine with both the original and the Monoprice cables.
I have run into "flaky" cables, where they only work right if jiggled around a bit. Maybe they've been flexed too much, and have an intermittent connection. Maybe the contacts have gotten dirty. I don't worry about it, I just throw those away, you can get new ones from Monoprice for less than a buck.
Thanks Mike S (Also my initials, lol) That's what I get for posting after staying up a bit too late.
well i just ordered two micro usb cables from monoprice. we'll see if those fare any better.
the only thing i can guess is the power wires are a small gauge in the cables i bought from amazon. monoprice has two different kinds, some use 28awg for both data/power and then they have some that have 24awg for power and 28awg for data. i'm hoping that getting the bigger wire for the power will solve the issue.
also, i've been using juiceplotter and you can visibly see the slope of the charge change when switching just between these cables i bought vs the stock one when using the HTC charger so i'm pretty certain it's the cable.
roppetty said:
i've been using juiceplotter
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Battery Monitor Widget will do that, and more, including telling you whether it's charging AC or USB.
You can also check the charging type from Home Settings/About Phone/Battery/Battery Status.
Can I purchase the same exact cable that comes with N6 somewhere online? I want to be able to have an extra one for my car.
2014 SR5 Premium
Pretty certain its the same turbo charger they sell on Motorola.com, its like 35 bucks.
sfidelisrp said:
Pretty certain its the same turbo charger they sell on Motorola.com, its like 35 bucks.
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I was looking for this, but it's out of stock. Any ideas who has this available.
http://www.motorola.com/us/accessories-batteries-chargers/USB-Data-Cable/usb-data-cable.html
2014 SR5 Premium
Don't know where you'd get that exact one but honestly if all you're looking for is the cable you can find micro USB cables almost anywhere. I bought two in Walgreen's for like 5 bucks a pop that I keep in my vehicles. They work perfect. Nothing special about buying over priced cables when they all do the exact same thing.
---------- Post added at 07:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:13 AM ----------
dinosaur1 said:
I was looking for this, but it's out of stock. Any ideas who has this available.
http://www.motorola.com/us/accessories-batteries-chargers/USB-Data-Cable/usb-data-cable.html
2014 SR5 Premium
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Above
Like the others have said. Any USB to Micro-USB cable would work just as well as another (unless the cable is faulty, which... well.... yea).
Isn't it more in the charger than the cable? Unless of course you're talking USB 3 of course.
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elementaldragon said:
Like the others have said. Any USB to Micro-USB cable would work just as well as another (unless the cable is faulty, which... well.... yea).
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I'm not quite following your ending statement.
2014 SR5 Premium
elementaldragon said:
Like the others have said. Any USB to Micro-USB cable would work just as well as another (unless the cable is faulty, which... well.... yea).
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Not true. Cable does matter. Some don't pass enough current. Some don't stay put.
Monoprice premium cables should be <$3 and quality seems good; no complaints here.
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=103&cp_id=10303&cs_id=1030307&p_id=9965&seq=1&format=2
(black ones seem to be OOS)
daftlush said:
Not true. Cable does matter. Some don't pass enough current. Some don't stay put.
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Click to collapse
dinosaur1 said:
I'm not quite following your ending statement.
2014 SR5 Premium
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Again... if it's a faulty cable. Only time I've ever seen a cable NOT work is if it was bent tightly too many times and split a wire in the casing, or as you said, if the connector itself was somehow flawed. Current supplied is a non-issue, because USB does not require a lot of current for anything. If it did, the wires would need to be thicker.
Just bought this to use with Incipio car turbo charger I bought earlier. I like coiled cables to use in the car: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008DVMRXG/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_75DBub1FSNSV2
This is my new favorite! I charges my N5 from 0% to 50 in 10 minutes! And I love the light on the plug so you can see when you plug it into the phone. I give this 6 out of 5 stars, specially with it being 6 foot long!
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CWM989I/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
and for the car (although can't vouch for speed in the car charger) http://www.amazon.com/Rapid-Dual-Car-Charger-Micro/dp/B00GB8XIZO/ref=pd_bxgy_cps_img_y
What is a good charger that I can use at work?
2014 SR5 Premium
dinosaur1 said:
What is a good charger that I can use at work?
2014 SR5 Premium
Click to expand...
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Look at my post above yours.
dinosaur1 said:
What is a good charger that I can use at work?
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Click to collapse
The kick-ass 1.8A Blackberry Folding Blade Chargers... ~$5-6 each or 2 for ~$10.
Get a "Charge Only" cable. They deliver higher current to phone from charger than than data / charge cables. Amazon has them at reasonable price.
wtherrell said:
Get a "Charge Only" cable. They deliver higher current to phone from charger than than data / charge cables. Amazon has them at reasonable price.
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Link?
2014 SR5 Premium
http://www.verizonwireless.com/acce...er-with-fast-charge-technology-for-micro-usb/
Came across this today. I get 25% off so may be worth it for me.
I thought I'd jump in here and explain why there's so many inconsistent stories regarding cables. Here's the real deal:
Android determines whether a charger is a computer (USB) or a wall charger (AC) by the status of the data pins in the USB connector. In USB, there are 4 pins. The center two pins are data pins. The outer pins supply power and ground. If the central pins are shorted together electrically, then Android devices consider that a wall charger, and will attempt to charge at a higher amperage. If they're not, then the device assumes it's tied to a computer, and charges at 500mA (the power put out by a computer's USB 2.0 port). This is why some 2A chargers will show as "Charging (USB)" on the battery screen, instead of "Charging (AC)," which is what you want. ( I said attempt before, because connecting a cable where the data pins are shorted to a computer won't increase the 500mA that your computer is supplying. Thus, the device will TRY to charge faster, but won't, because it's limited by the computer.)
iOS uses a different method for determining AC/USB, so any charger designed for iOS devices will charge your Android device at 500mA, regardless of the rated power. (That's why some multi-port USB chargers, with a 1A and 2A port will often charge better with the 1A port -- the 2A port tends to be designed for iPads.) Along these lines, there are two types of "Charge Only" cables: Those where the central pins are shorted (Android-compatible), and those where the central pins are missing or disconnected (electrically, that's called "open," which is the opposite of "shorted" -- and these are iOS-Compatible). Thus, using a "Charge Only" cable, can actually be a bad thing. In fact, most "charge only" cables are of the "open" type. So, to say that you should get a "charge only" cable is wrong, more often than not.
Unfortunately, when you're purchasing cables or chargers, they almost never say "Android Compatible." Instead, look at what it DOES say. If it says it's iOS compatible, or that it's designed to charge any iOS device, then it definitely won't charge your Android device at more than 500mA. Stay away! Look for it to say it's designed to charge a specific Android device, like a Samsung S5, or a Droid Maxx, or whatever. Compatibility with ANY Android device, means compatibility with ALL Android devices. (Assuming it's still a micro-USB connector.)
Cables sold by themselves are almost always Data cables. Cables sold with chargers are almost always "charge only" cables, and you need to go by the charger compatibility to determine the cable compatibility. The real test is to find a charger/cable combination that will show up as "Charging (AC)" on the battery screen. The original OEM pair that came with the device is best for this. Once you have that pair of known Android-Compatible components, you can swap out the cable OR charger (ONLY ONE AT A TIME!), and test it to see if it still reads "Charging (AC)," or "Charging (USB)." If it's the latter, then that charger or cable was designed for iOS devices, and won't really be useful with your Android device. If it's the former, then it becomes a known compatible item for further testing.
In summary. The power rating of a charger means absolutely nothing. A 2A charger for iOS will charge much slower than an a 1A charger designed for Android. Don't rely on that. Instead, rely on the device that the charger was designed for. If it says it's designed to charge an Android device (any Android device), then select that over any charger that even so much as mentions an iOS device. Better yet, look for chargers that support the Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0 standard. That's the same as Moto's "Turbo Charger," and since that's an Android thing, it's guaranteed to be Android compatible, and much faster at charging your N6.
jt3 said:
I thought I'd jump in here and explain why there's so many inconsistent stories regarding cables. Here's the real deal:
Android determines whether a charger is a computer (USB) or a wall charger (AC) by the status of the data pins in the USB connector. In USB, there are 4 pins. The center two pins are data pins. The outer pins supply power and ground. If the central pins are shorted together electrically, then Android devices consider that a wall charger, and will attempt to charge at a higher amperage. If they're not, then the device assumes it's tied to a computer, and charges at 500mA (the power put out by a computer's USB 2.0 port). This is why some 2A chargers will show as "Charging (USB)" on the battery screen, instead of "Charging (AC)," which is what you want. ( I said attempt before, because connecting a cable where the data pins are shorted to a computer won't increase the 500mA that your computer is supplying. Thus, the device will TRY to charge faster, but won't, because it's limited by the computer.)
iOS uses a different method for determining AC/USB, so any charger designed for iOS devices will charge your Android device at 500mA, regardless of the rated power. (That's why some multi-port USB chargers, with a 1A and 2A port will often charge better with the 1A port -- the 2A port tends to be designed for iPads.) Along these lines, there are two types of "Charge Only" cables: Those where the central pins are shorted (Android-compatible), and those where the central pins are missing or disconnected (electrically, that's called "open," which is the opposite of "shorted" -- and these are iOS-Compatible). Thus, using a "Charge Only" cable, can actually be a bad thing. In fact, most "charge only" cables are of the "open" type. So, to say that you should get a "charge only" cable is wrong, more often than not.
Unfortunately, when you're purchasing cables or chargers, they almost never say "Android Compatible." Instead, look at what it DOES say. If it says it's iOS compatible, or that it's designed to charge any iOS device, then it definitely won't charge your Android device at more than 500mA. Stay away! Look for it to say it's designed to charge a specific Android device, like a Samsung S5, or a Droid Maxx, or whatever. Compatibility with ANY Android device, means compatibility with ALL Android devices. (Assuming it's still a micro-USB connector.)
Cables sold by themselves are almost always Data cables. Cables sold with chargers are almost always "charge only" cables, and you need to go by the charger compatibility to determine the cable compatibility. The real test is to find a charger/cable combination that will show up as "Charging (AC)" on the battery screen. The original OEM pair that came with the device is best for this. Once you have that pair of known Android-Compatible components, you can swap out the cable OR charger (ONLY ONE AT A TIME!), and test it to see if it still reads "Charging (AC)," or "Charging (USB)." If it's the latter, then that charger or cable was designed for iOS devices, and won't really be useful with your Android device. If it's the former, then it becomes a known compatible item for further testing.
In summary. The power rating of a charger means absolutely nothing. A 2A charger for iOS will charge much slower than an a 1A charger designed for Android. Don't rely on that. Instead, rely on the device that the charger was designed for. If it says it's designed to charge an Android device (any Android device), then select that over any charger that even so much as mentions an iOS device. Better yet, look for chargers that support the Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0 standard. That's the same as Moto's "Turbo Charger," and since that's an Android thing, it's guaranteed to be Android compatible, and much faster at charging your N6.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
FYI. I ordered this and tried it today. Works like a charm in my vehicles built in USB port. Originally the USB by itself wouldn't charge.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00GC4AJOU/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?qid=1416764690&sr=8-3&pi=AC_SY200_QL40
I was going to pick this up which has the fastest charge using a 12v.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00P9UILUM/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1416764884&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SY200_QL40
Does anyone how much slower the USB adapter would charge vs the Powermod?
I just bought two sets of SONICable,The World's Most Advanced Charging Cable, for $49.00. Supposedly, they will increase you charging speed by 2x. It's a crowdfund project, and the cables will supposedly be delivered in March 2015.
I'm not affiliated with the project. I only think it sounds like an exciting product and decided informing the community about it.
Does it work on the same principle as this video for doubling your WiFi speed?
Code:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG5cEik2ABY
Well while surely there are better and worse cables, doesn't charging speed depends on the output of the wall piece and the charging circuitry?
On bad cables i get at most 1 Amp to charge the tablet, but with the original samsung cable i do get around 2 amps which is the designed output of the wall piece.
Maybe it works like the "Fast Charge" mode on custom kernels.
Charging is limited by 3 factors
1. Stock charger 5 Volts, then most importantly is the Amps - 2A for typical Samsung charger so going faster then this is unlikely with the stock charger, and tablets can already charge at 1890mA so probably 90% of its rated current.
2. Cable quality and length most Samsung cables are already high-quality and have copper wires with two bigger wires for the 5v and Ground line and they are short length (3-6ft) so they can easily handle 2A output (probably higher).
3. Probably the most important is the phone / tablet, usually they have several circuitry and software (kernel) protections to limit the charging speed for several reasons since lithium-ion / poly are extremely dangerous if they are overcharged or overheated or otherwise improperly charged (you can see videos of people overcharging lithium battery's then tapping them causing a huge fireball )
So it is very unlikely for a cable to achieve better charging speed, it probably just has the Data + - pins shorted to tell the charger / phone to charge at full speed (though this is unnecessary nowadays since most chargers already do this, but it could be beneficial for older phones / tablets)
arcadia2uk said:
I just bought two sets of SONICable,The World's Most Advanced Charging Cable, for $49.00. Supposedly, they will increase you charging speed by 2x. It's a crowdfund project, and the cables will supposedly be delivered in March 2015.
I'm not affiliated with the project. I only think it sounds like an exciting product and decided informing the community about it.
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You seriously spent $49 on a usb lead
From the link you supplied:
'When the switch is ON: All of the power is focused on charging, sync/data is disabled'
What, like using a mains charger where there is no sync connection (or buying a cheap charging cable where the data pins aren't connected)
Hes either a bot or someone paid to advertise that "product". It did remind me of "double your network speed" video from youtube where dude wraps one ethernet cable with another one and doubles his internet speed.
I saw this post a while back, and it was immediately clear to me that it was a scam. I can't BELIEVE that they actually raised over $400k on this thing. Indiegogo seems like it's becoming a scammer's conduit to gullible/uninformed buyers.
When did commercial posts get so frequent in here?
ssmr2t said:
When did commercial posts get so frequent in here?
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Apparently, there's a difference between buying a sd-card on amazon, or a glass protector on amazon compared with a pair of cables on Indiegogo. Although, I can't really see the difference.
Anyway, if and when I receive the cables I will let you know how it worked out.
Did you get your cables yet? Your OP says they were due in March 2015
Edit: I like this better http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...9QNSmGzx8GP_qMGpQ&sig2=O-5lUKoBFozTFf-A2spM6A
ssmr2t said:
Did you get your cables yet? Your OP says they were due in March 2015
Edit: I like this better http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...9QNSmGzx8GP_qMGpQ&sig2=O-5lUKoBFozTFf-A2spM6A
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No news as of yet, who knows maybe it is as suggested a hoax. But, as I'm enjoying gadgets I'll take the risk.
arcadia2uk said:
No news as of yet, who knows maybe it is as suggested a hoax. But, as I'm enjoying gadgets I'll take the risk.
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Keep us posted! Im interested in the results.
I'll probably buy when the price goes down.
Seems like an interesting concept. I'd like to see the cable in real-world action. Assuming they actually make it to market, i'll buy when the price goes down.
Believe it, or not, but I actually received my cables last week. The charging speed is substantially improved, but definitely not 2x. However, I still haven't tried charging by connecting over the PC, where this might show up. Anyway, as a fan of gadgets I still satisfied with my purchase.
I'm glad your happy with your purchase.
Charging speed is limited by the circuitry in the tablet itself. There's a limit in the amount of amps it can pull from anything (charger/computer or any USB port). I have an extremely powerful charger so I'm sure I hit the max charging rate of my devices. This cable will not improve that. I'm also sure that it's actually charging faster and drawing more power than my original chargers as some devices act a bit weird when charged fast.
The "twice as fast" charging rate will be the exact same charging rate as you get from a "charge only" cable if (and only if) you connect it to a computer or another device that syncs data. In every other scenario you'll get the exact same charging rate.
Note that your computer typically has a USB port for charging that's capable of drawing more power than the standard 500 mA that USB 1 and 2 offer. (USB3 can draw 900 mA, up to 1500 mA if it's a charging port)
Keep in mind that the stock charger output is 5.3 volts.
Lower impedance cable helps.
Samsung stock cable is good enough, and PNY cable also does a good job.
You can have the same thing on eBay for $6 ...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-smart-c...-Apple-Android-With-V-A-display-/141342314642
A charge only cable so you get maximum charge speed starts at only £5
http://www.portablepowersupplies.co.uk/portapow-fast-charge-micro-usb-cable/
An choice of USB Charging adapter, but do you really need these?
http://www.portablepowersupplies.co.uk/portapow-fast-charge-data-block-usb-adaptor/
John.
If you have 5 port 8 amp IQ charger, you can charge T520 faster.
ssmr2t said:
Did you get your cables yet? Your OP says they were due in March 2015
Edit: I like this better http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...9QNSmGzx8GP_qMGpQ&sig2=O-5lUKoBFozTFf-A2spM6A
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Yes I got my cable, and the 2x works if you charge through your computers USB, as what the cable does is cutting off the communication to charge only. I saw a post at XDA that explain how to do this by yourself in about 5-10 min.
Do we know for sure why it is that dash charging only works work the dash cable. Is it a DRM issue or a design element that needs to be licensed.
I'm not too stressed out because I plan to use a standard usb c cable for overnight charging but I am curious what is actually going on inside this charger.
I am quite familiar with OP official response concerning the matter, but given their track record of non answers, I'm assuming this situation is no different.
In other words I am curious what stops a company from releasing a cable that would in fact work. Possibly with the addition of some end user kernel changes. I understand this would be slightly impractical for a large company like Aukey or Anker to release a cable for one phone (that people could not use straight out of the box) however, my curiosity is still there
https://www.androidcentral.com/dash-charge has a good article on this.
---------- Post added at 12:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:47 PM ----------
Also, supposedly it's the same tech as http://www.oppo.com/en/technology/vooc - and anything "VOOC" branded will provide the same "dash charge" speeds.
Dougshell said:
Do we know for sure why it is that dash charging only works work the dash cable. Is it a DRM issue or a design element that needs to be licensed.
I'm not too stressed out because I plan to use a standard usb c cable for overnight charging but I am curious what is actually going on inside this charger.
I am quite familiar with OP official response concerning the matter, but given their track record of non answers, I'm assuming this situation is no different.
In other words I am curious what stops a company from releasing a cable that would in fact work. Possibly with the addition of some end user kernel changes. I understand this would be slightly impractical for a large company like Aukey or Anker to release a cable for one phone (that people could not use straight out of the box) however, my curiosity is still there
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Simple Answer to this is the proprietary high amp usb type c cable which is supplied with the stock 5v 4amp power brick work well hand in hand, it is the way Oneplus has made this..one cannot work without the other so it is packaged deal..take it or leave..unless you are willing to compromise DASH Charge you can use any other type C cable and power brick adaptor
On a standard type-c (USB 3.1) cable connected to my PC, the phone slow charges. My other devices fast charge on this cable.
The other devices slow charge when connected to Dash cable and charger.
It leads me to think some very non-standards conforming USB tech is going on in the Dash gear, enough to make Benson Leung sick to his stomach. This isn't new to OnePlus, see https://plus.google.com/+BensonLeung/posts/JmcU4rA1csh
My advice would be to never use Dash gear with other devices.
Elnrik said:
It leads me to think some very non-standards conforming USB tech is going on in the Dash gear, enough to make Benson Leung sick to his stomach. This isn't new to OnePlus, see https://plus.google.com/+BensonLeung/posts/JmcU4rA1csh
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AFAIK this non-compliance thing has been there only in the first shipped cables and was fixed later on. So today's devices (this is already 2 years ago) should be compatible to USB standards and therefore other devices should load their battery at normal speed (not dash-speed) with the dash cables and dash plugs.
tobby88 said:
AFAIK this non-compliance thing has been there only in the first shipped cables and was fixed later on. So today's devices (this is already 2 years ago) should be compatible to USB standards and therefore other devices should load their battery at normal speed (not dash-speed) with the dash cables and dash plugs.
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Should, but I don't think it is. Q: why would the OP5 not fast charge over a normal type-c connection if it were standards compliant? Answer: it doesn't comply with standards.
Elnrik said:
Should, but I don't think it is. Q: why would the OP5 not fast charge over a normal type-c connection if it were standards compliant? Answer: it doesn't comply with standards.
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Amswer: OP5 doenst support any other quick charge methods (aka. QC 2.0/3.0, Adaptive Charging, Super Charging etc). It only supports normal charge or dash charge (& Vooc as dash is based on Vooc).
Also you should remember that different phones shows differently charging methods. Example Oneplus can maybe show normal 2A slow and Samsung as normal charge. Nexus 6P will show regular 3A charging as fast charging, Oneplus shows it regular charge.
For me if i use other C-cables (non-Dash charge one) it shows just "charging".
Regarding to Benson case... Original OP2 cable was non-standard. It didnt contain regular 56ohm thing. Oneplus fixed it later and dash charge cable is using standard things and also only for 3/3T/5 dash charge properties. For other phone you can use it without problems like use it to charge QC3.0 phones etc.
Sent from my OnePlus5 using XDA Labs
zige said:
Amswer: OP5 doenst support any other quick charge methods (aka. QC 2.0/3.0, Adaptive Charging, Super Charging etc). It only supports normal charge or dash charge (& Vooc as dash is based on Vooc).
Also you should remember that different phones shows differently charging methods. Example Oneplus can maybe show normal 2A slow and Samsung as normal charge. Nexus 6P will show regular 3A charging as fast charging, Oneplus shows it regular charge.
For me if i use other C-cables (non-Dash charge one) it shows just "charging".
Regarding to Benson case... Original OP2 cable was non-standard. It didnt contain regular 56ohm thing. Oneplus fixed it later and dash charge cable is using standard things and also only for 3/3T/5 dash charge properties. For other phone you can use it without problems like use it to charge QC3.0 phones etc.
Sent from my OnePlus5 using XDA Labs
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My point isn't so much about the cable as it is the device itself. It is a USB type-c device that doesn't conform to type-c USB standards.
There will be a plethora of usb-c ports on computers and chargers going forward. They are included on every new model of Apple, PC motherboard, and OEM PC - so type-c adoption is there and real. By ignoring these standards and producing a product with a proprietary design they are ostracizing their devices, and by extension their users, from simple and convenient charging methods. It ensures lots of sales of Dash chargers though.
It's a **** move straight from the Apple playbook. Apple made billions from the 30 pin to lightning connector change, and they will do it again with the lightning to Type-C change.
This Oppo/OP Dash charger isn't something consumers should be championing. It's not something Oppo/OP should be forcing on consumers either.
Elnrik said:
Should, but I don't think it is. Q: why would the OP5 not fast charge over a normal type-c connection if it were standards compliant? Answer: it doesn't comply with standards.
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I don't think your statement is accurate, the newer USB C Power Delivery specs allows voltages up to 20 volts and amperages up to 5 amps, the dash charger specs use 5 volts on 4 amps, well within USB C PD specs. The fact that their technology is proprietary does not mean it's not standards compliant.
There is also the very important difference between voltage and amperage, voltage is pushed to devices so it's always important that what you are using within the voltage required by the device. Amperage on the other hand is pulled by the device so the charger will allow the device to pull as much amperage as it needs as long as it doesn't go over it's own capacity. Think about your standard US outlet, it works at 120 Volts and at either 15 to 20 amps, you can connect as many 120V devices to it as long as you don't exceed its amperage.
That being said, the reason other usb cables don't work on the dash charger block is because the usb A side probably has different resistors, One + cables probably have higher resistors than regular, run of the mill usb C-A cables. That was the issue with the first cables that came out a few years ago, they had pull-up resistors with the wrong Ohm rating.
Here is a link to a PDF file explaining USB C Power Specs, keep in mind though that the eventual idea is to only use USB C-C cables and not the USB C-A cables that are the cause of so much headaches.
HueleSnaiL said:
I don't think your statement is accurate, the newer USB C Power Delivery specs allows voltages up to 20 volts and amperages up to 5 amps, the dash charger specs use 5 volts on 4 amps, well within USB C PD specs. The fact that their technology is proprietary does not mean it's not standards compliant.
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The listed power specs are only half the picture. The negotiation between devices is critical in getting those power numbers. That a OP5 can't draw above 900mA on a fully compliant 3.1 cable from a PD capable Type-C port shows it's not compliant. Its not negotiating power draw the way a standard Type-C device should.
And yes, I've already read all the spec docs. Thanks though.
Elnrik said:
The listed power specs are only half the picture. The negotiation between devices is critical in getting those power numbers. That a OP5 can't draw above 900mA on a fully compliant 3.1 cable from a PD capable Type-C port shows it's not compliant. Its not negotiating power draw the way a standard Type-C device should.
And yes, I've already read all the spec docs. Thanks though.
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The phone itself doesn't have to comply to anything, the chargers and cables do since they are the ones providing the charge. The standards are there to determine thresholds on how much and how little current they can work with. The circuitry on the phone and battery are the ones who tell the charger how much current they need to charge the battery without warming it too much or overcharging it. Different combinations of chargers and cables will give you a lot of different charging speeds but that's because there are so many chargers and cables with different ratings that devices err on the side of caution when they can't recognize the charger that it's being plugged into them. It's kind of a unfortunate thing that companies like Motorola, Huawei, OnePlus and Qualcomm use different charging specs but all of them work within the 15 to 20 watts of power for fast charging, so it's not a really big difference.
The reason for the difference in charging speeds between the dash charger/cable and other chargers is that 1 + charger offloads the current regulation to the charger itself rather than leaving current regulation to the phone, like other fast charging devices, that's why 1 + phones fast charge at cooler temperatures than other fast charging technologies.
Now, why your phone doesn't go above 900mA on a regular cable is beyond me, the first photo I attached is of my phone connected to the dash charger via this cable and the second one is of the same cable connected to this wall outlet.
Elnrik said:
Should, but I don't think it is. Q: why would the OP5 not fast charge over a normal type-c connection if it were standards compliant? Answer: it doesn't comply with standards.
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That's a fallacy. To comply with the standards does not mean, that everything is exactly the same. The USB-standard is a little bit more complex than just "pin 1 of one end has to be connected to pin 1 of the other end". The USB-standard defines what is allowed, so no devices will get damaged and to ensure a "minimum" data and power connectivity of let's say at least USB 2.0.
That's what these cables and chargers offer: They don't violate the USB standards. They allow a data connection with USB 2.0 also for non OP-devices. They also allow "normal power" (5V 500mA). They don't damage other devices. They just "work" as they should. But they offer "additional extras" (dash charging) when all three parts (charger, cable, phone) are compatible.
So they comply with the standards while offering additional features and that means, that other cables/chargers, which also comply with the standards but don't offer the extras, won't be able to dash charge.
Anyone tried to see whether using the oneplus cables on QC devices + QC wall plug supports Quick Charging?
I get 2a off my 3a rated PD c to c cables and 38w PD charger.
The only PD compatible android chipset I know of is made by mediatek at present.