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Hello,
I want to compile Android from source. I want to just build a fully default Gingerbread that would run nice on my phone. I got the Android source, kernel source (kernel-2.6.32-U8800-Froyo) and now I don't know what to do next. I compiled the generic one already (lunch full-eng) and it ran fine on the emulator.
My most important question is, if I make it otapackage and flash it, would it start? If it doesn't, can I recover? What folders/files are essential if I make my own device for example in "device/huawei/u8800"
Also, where can I find a GOOD porting guide? I have found some that are old and not used anymore.
Some links
Start by going through source.android.com for the general basics if you havent already.
Also, even though Google removed the PDK (Platform Developer's Kit) from the site, it has been mirrored on kandroid here: http://www.kandroid.org/online-pdk/guide/index.html
The stuff in the the PDK, although inadequate, is still very important and explains how to create the necessary makefiles to add to the build, configuring for a new market, etc. etc.
Also,
watch these two videos over here. These were very helpful in my ROM development:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_H4AlQaNa0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFqELLB1Kk8
Learn to use github. It is helpful for you to keep track of your changes as well as incorporate others works into your own.
http://help.github.com/
Finally, Cyanogenmod repos are your BEST friend. Almost all major AOSP ROM devs owe some sort of thanks to those guys who have done so much. If you want to check out some of the code changes and patches that you want to incorporate look here on their gerrit:
review.cyanogenmod.com
If you want to look at the other changes that are actually in the cyanogenmod builds, best to look at their git repos here:
https://github.com/CyanogenMod
I am still learning right now while I create my ROM but your welcome to PM me if you have any questions
Glad someone helped. Now that ICS is available, I will build that instead. Now, I will follow the kandroid tutorial and add hardware_msm7x30 from cyanogenmod's repos. Then I'll make my own makefiles in the huawei/u8800 and I'll see if that works.
Also, some things I am not still clear. If I am not adding any recovery files, it shouldn't replace it, right? I want to make sure I can recover. However, my phone has a bootloader mode, which should still work, even if other's messed up. And the kernel, if I already have a compiled kernel for android 2.2, should it work for newer versions?
Thanks
Well AOSP as far as I know adds the stock recovery into the build so if you have a stock ROM, then you will lose your recovery (unless you change the source to skip the adding of recovery to otapackage).
Your bootloader should be fine. so you will theoretically be able to re-flash a custom recovery with fastboot as long as your bootloader is unlocked (assuming your phone is already rooted and has a custom rom, then it should be unlocked)
If you are using CM7 as base, then you dont have to worry about it as it is configured to NOT replace the recovery during the building and creating the otapackage.
The kernel should not be compatible as there were significant changes from Froyo and you should not use it. By the way, for now, work on the ROM first. Creating a custom kernel from scratch is hard work and should be left as the last task to do (assuming you know linux kernel development). Just use the stock pre-built kernel that comes with the source.
Also, according to Google:
Starting with IceCreamSandwich, the Android Open-Source Project can't be used from pure source code only, and requires additional hardware-related proprietary libraries to run, specifically for hardware graphics acceleration.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This means you need to find the correct hardware drivers first. Where to find that is beyond me. Check CM repos. It would be easy if everyone had a Nexus S/ Galaxy Nexus as the drivers are immediately available on source.android.com. Ah...well....
Personally, I am going to wait a few weeks before dabbling into ICS ROMs. Wait till CM7 comes out with a nightly for my nexus one and then rip the drivers from their ROM and use it for mine
I got ICS source and made the necessary Android.mk, AndroidProducts.mk, BoardConfig.mk and u8800(my device).mk, also vendorsetup.sh . Now, when I am trying to build it doesn't give me an error, more of a suggestion. It says to include "LOCAL_MODULE_TAGS := optional" in the hardware/msm7k/liblights/Android.mk. I added that, and tried again. Got that message again, but with other type /libril/Android.mk
About fastboot, I am not sure if my device has that. It can be turned on with volume up and down + power, but it boots to so called "pink screen". When I mount phone using usb to my pc, I can browse the recovery.img and other related stuff. If I have the otapackage, can I just take the recovery out from there or what should I modify in source? Add something to the makefiles?
Yeah I am pretty sure you should add the LOCAL_MODULE_TAGS to all of the relevant pre-built files. maybe they made the compiler less harsh in ICS when compared to the one for gingerbread. In gingerbread, it outright crashed the compile and asked you to add the tags.
According to Google engineers, here is the reason why they use these tags:
Short answer: lack of time.
The urgent concern was to prevent new modules from using a user tag
(implicitly or explicitly), and we took care of that. We haven't had
time to deal with the existing modules, there are over 1000 of those.
JBQ
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By the way, I hope you have git setup and the changes you have made are being staged and commited to your repo in github. If you ever make a mistake that hardcore crashes your compile and you dont know what you did, git will be there for you to rollback the changes as well as keep track of everything you have done from commit to commit
As far as I know, CM repos dont have everything complete for a full build of ICS but I could be wrong.
So you are working with AOSP correct?
As for the fastboot every android phone should have a fastboot by default but I believe each phone has a slightly different version. I will post how my fastboot looks like in a bit.
As for the removal of recovery, there should be somewhere in either source, makefiles or argument for the otapackage command that should leave out the recovery when making update.zip. You could just remove the recovery from the update.zip, change the updater-script and repackage it but its not a clean solution and those changes should be done in a uniform manner so you dont repeat this step every time you do a new build.
Where exactly is it, I have yet to know. Still learning much of this myself.
I now completely understand what modes of turning on my phone has... First one is normal, second is recovery, third is update-bootloader(I can access all files with it too) and four being the fastboot. The custom recovery I have on has an issue that it wants to boot to charging mode when I type "adb reboot bootloader". I can get to fastboot with the custom ROM I have on right now though. I think I am safe if I have issues.
I edited msm7k Android.mk to remove libaudio and libgralloc (errors with those), and it compiles to the step where it says it has no rule to make kernel requied by boot.img. I have put into BoardConfig.mk the line TARGET_PREBUILT_KERNEL with my kernel. I don't understand, what's wrong now...
My goal is to simply get it booting up. I'll look into libraries and other later.
-e-
Got the kernel thing sorted out. Copied device.mk from tuna device and edited to fit my device. Also modified full_u8800.mk and made the call to inherit from device.mk. Compiling now and I think I got past that.
-e2-
Got it built successfully. Fastboot won't let it install, because it has no mount points. Added mount points and let's see...
Nice to see you are making progress.
Got it built, but the fastboot is kinda buggy in my device, maybe custom rom issue. I can't make otapackage, it says "no rule to make target otapackage". I have a possible fix, trying that later.
Otherwise, I read its possible to flash system.img from recovery via advanced restore, update.zip package or advanced flash_image, but I don't know. Will post results.
Sent from my u8800
-e-
Tried make otapackage again. It still says "make: *** No rule to make target `otapackage'. Stop.". Maybe some things are still missing, I don't know. adb flash_image command will always post -1 to me, update.zip didn't work, advanced restore is not for this. I have a compiled image and I can't wait to test it, but I can't flash it...
If nothing works I'll revert to stock ROM and try again.
Blefish said:
Got it built, but the fastboot is kinda buggy in my device, maybe custom rom issue. I can't make otapackage, it says "no rule to make target otapackage". I have a possible fix, trying that later.
Otherwise, I read its possible to flash system.img from recovery via advanced restore, update.zip package or advanced flash_image, but I don't know. Will post results.
Sent from my u8800
-e-
Tried make otapackage again. It still says "make: *** No rule to make target `otapackage'. Stop.". Maybe some things are still missing, I don't know. adb flash_image command will always post -1 to me, update.zip didn't work, advanced restore is not for this. I have a compiled image and I can't wait to test it, but I can't flash it...
If nothing works I'll revert to stock ROM and try again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you successfully compiled, take the boot.img and system.img and package them into a zip and use dsixda's kitchen to make it flashable
Blefish, is it possible for you to share your device/vendor structures somewhere? I just finished setting up a build machine for ICS (using Cyanogenmod's repos in my case), and made a working full-eng image that seems to boot just fine in the emulator, so I'm seemingly all ready to hack around our device's specifics. But I would rather not do duplicate work, so I decided to ask
I'm also grabbing Huawei's new 2.6.35-based package to get the new kernel config, can't wait for them to release the actual sources for the update.
I'll share them on GitHib once I get a working build. I haven't got much time, and I changed to CM9 alpha now (repo branch ics). Since we got a 2.3 update, my first task is to port the latest clockworkmod recovery and then the ICS.
Compiling Android is long task and I'll do it in weekends, but the recovery should be available sometime, it shouldn't be hard to port that.
Oh yeah, look up stockwell's, dzo's and genokolar's github, they have done the device configuration. You can get much help from there. This weekend I'll propably test the build, I got otapackage command working now (it needed some things I can't write on mobile).
Sent from my U8800 using Tapatalk
Dear Community,
Please read the following before starting on reading on.After lots of requests I decided its time to provide every oncoming developer with a short guide on how to start developing for our beloved Mimmi (most stuff applies also for Robyn or other Android devices).
I'd also like to get a few words passed on what actually in most cases developing is, so let's start with the basics:
There is different ways of developing there is people like Cyanogen Mod which provide you with a bunch of changes to the original Android source code which enables new features, adds hardware support or make things easier for specific device developers. However these people at Cyanogen are often not fully recognized so please make sure to thank these people as well. Besides that there are ports of similiar devices which will not be explained in this tutorial but also these developers usually put a lot of effort into their roms however since the source is already compiled changes are usually of a cosmetic nature. In this tutorial however you will find the basics on how to compile kernel or android from source in order to build your own changes into your own rom, which btw would have never been possible without the developers porting xrecovery or cwm to our devices so please give these people a big thumbs up as well after reading on.
What do I need/Environment set up
Most people have issues on setting up a the heart of your Developer Carreer, the Environment. What I strongly advise is to have at least a bit knowledge of the main usuage of Linux Distributions and also programming languages. Without these you will most likely fail at one stage or another to make a successful build.
So lets evaluate what you need :
Linux Distro (i.e. any Ubuntu should do well)
a VM or native Linux
quite a bit of Linux skills and programing skills
Time and a high tolerance of frustration
Sufficent RAM (at least 4 GB, more is advised otherwise use native Linux)
If you know how to install a native Linux Distribution you can probably skip this part, I will explain how to use a VM to fill the basic needs and keep your development area seperated from you most likely otherwise needed productive platform.
The following Steps are just keywords, if you want to develop you will need to inform yourself how to achieve all this yourself, there's lots of tutorials out there.
Step 1: Download a VM and a Linux Distro
Step 2: Install VM Software (i.e. VirtualBox or VMWare Server)
Step 3: Install the Linux Distro in VM (you'll need at least 6 GB Swap and 50 GB or More HD space to have enough room for experiments/seperate syncs/etc...)
Step 4: Figure out if you installed 32 Bit or 64 Bit (you'll need this later)
Step 5: Boot your new VM based Linux Distro
Step 6: Set up a Share Mount between your host and your VM
Step 7: download the Android Source/Cyanogen Source of your desire (i.e. : repo http://**** -b gingerbread) into a folder for you desire (the folder should represent your ROM's/Kernel name)
Building a Kernel
Building a Kernel is one of the easier parts considering the full source code is available for download. Sony Erricson Open Source Dev Website is providing fully funtional Kernel sources usually in the tar.gz format. Download the source code and extract it, or if you use a git based repository clone or checkout the project into a folder of your desire.
The next step, is not mandatory but advised to sync the entire Android repo/CyanogenRepo as the repo also provides the Cross Compiler toolchain which is needed to compile for your device.
Once everything is finished downloading you should check the following path in the Android repo : platform/linux-x86(orx64)/prebuilt/toolchain/arm-eabi-4.4.3/bin/ this is the cross compiler we will use to build the kernel itself, its vital to have the compiler present, the version number maybe different though.
Lets start with the building process itself:
Code:
cd kernelfolder
cp arch/arm/configs/semc_mimmi_defconfig .config (the command maybe change to copy another default config file, it creates a file in the root of the kernel folder called ".config"
ARCH=arm make menuconfig (this will bring up the kernel configuration menu for arm devices)
In the Menu Config you can change/add features to the Kernel once you are done safe the kernel config. Now your Kernel is ready to be compiled:
Code:
ARCH=arm CROSS_COMPILE=/pathtoandroid_source/platform/linux-x86(x64)/prebuilt/toolchain/arm-eabi-4.4.3/bin/arm-eabi- make -j4
This will start a compile with 4 Jobs using the Architecture ARM and the Cross Compiler arm-eabi from the Android Source Repo. Once finished you'll find your Image in your kernel folder under arch/arm/boot/Image. Now you'll need to build your own ramdisk this is covered here at xda as well azuzu has also build a tool available to download.
Follow the instructions to create the kernel.sin which now can be flashed with Flashtool. Changes to Kernel source will now be available to your compiled Kernel. How to change the Kernel source is beyond this tutorial but programmers in C will have fun there.
Building Android from Source
Now lets get started with the more advanced part and the most frustrating part in the beginning. The easiest way to build for the mimmi would be to sync the Cyanogen Gingerbread source code. Which can be checked out using the repo binary (see tutorials on googles website also which packages for which architecture (x86 or x64) are addionally needed also the correct java version is important)
Now lets cut to the chase.
Code:
repo sync -u http://github.com/CyanogenMod/... -b gingerbread (or froyo or another branch you would like to check out)
once your repo is synced (you could also add "-j8" to enhance the speed of the repo command, it will take quite a while) you are almost ready to start. If you synced an AOSP source you will have the get your device and hardware libraries ready first. This means you will have to port i.e. the device project and hardware project (mimmi and msm7227-common folders from CM and also hardware folder from CM) to the AOSP source. It makes sense to port these to your AOSP source since they are the most complete so far. For Camera libraries you can sync from doixanhs repo the libcamera-5mp.
Now lets get a short overview over the Android source, it contains of various folders:
frameworks
device
vendor
hardware
platform
external
These are the most interesting, frameworks folder holds a bunch of android libraries and files which provide the functionality however often you will need to change a few things here and there since the mimmi is unique in its hardware. Everything you change will need to be approved with the following command:
Code:
make update-api
This will add all the functions, variables or anything else to the current-api.xml and ensure its available at build time.
The device folder holds device specific files, build-configs and so on. Lets look at some of the important files:
Code:
device/semc/mimmi/overlay/frameworks/base/res/res/values/config.xml/power.xml
The two xmls hold configurations of the build process which are device specific either LightSensorWarmupTime and so on the full list is in the root folder of frameworks/base/res/res/values/config.xml <-- any part you feel you need to change copy the lines from there and change in you device specific config.xml.
Now to another file:
Code:
device/semc/msm7227-common/BoardConfig.mk
This files olds the device sepecific configurations for the ARM, WLAN, etc.
Look at all the files in mimmi and msm7227-common and figure out what they do, google of course will guide you on that.
Also take a look in the:
Code:
vendor/cyanogen/products/
folder and find the mimmi config and get familiar with this as well. Nobody will be able to help unless you face specific issues. Developing is learning by doing and a lot of self teaching and the will to understand all of this yourself. We can't teach but you can learn. Specific questions however are usually proudly answered by most devs if they have already figured it out.
Lets start building now, first you'll need to get your lunch command to know which devices have makefiles (I always do it to be sure)
Code:
source build/envsetup.sh
This will now add all the known devices to your lunchcombo (the devices are usually definied in the vendorsetup.sh pointing to the makefiles)
Code:
lunch
Will get you the list of available devices and will wait for user input to select the device you want to build, choose the mimmi.
Code:
make -j4
This will start the building process with 4 jobs.
Now its time to get a coffee. Usually you will have a bunch of different issues on this part but the CM source is pretty good and you might be lucky there.
Now lets look at typicial errors:
Code:
symbol not found : means a variable in used in the code has not been defined, before its use this one is a tricky one
try to locate the source file and find the line the compiler is complaining about. Now check in the framework usually in
res/res/values or layout look for the type of the erros (String or array) and look in the corresponding xml if the variable
is present. Now look in vendor/cyanogen/overlay if your variable is also declared there and so on.
Code:
function not found/function of incompatible types : also a tricky one, you might sync a repo and made local changes to
a file and suddenly your functions another file calls are not present or have changed, find the differences between them and
think about how it has changed, maybe add the function again or maybe another function does the job now. you will need
to locate the changes compare them and you should be fine again
Code:
No Rule to make target: this one is usually due to a missing/incomplete Makefile you might need to add manually or
if you don't need it anyway the easiest would be to delete the not building folder
Once your source has finished compiling you will find you system image in:
Code:
out/products/mimmi/system/
As of now unfortunately its still missing a few files here and there. Compare ROMs and Compare what might needs to be added. However I advise not switch libraries around its best to use your own libraries. However sometimes you will face issues when doing this so start with the files created there and just add the recovery and ramdisk to your rom. Now observe via adb if everything is running. This will take time and add one missing lib after another one and reboot, after each (like grallocs or librils or fm libs and so). This is basically a debugging part of the job.
You will now add one by one more functionality, but keep in mind to use logcat to see what goes wrong, maybe some stuff can be changed in the source rather then randomly adding stuff.
also this one just in case.
Hey there c: As always, you come surprising everyone with your stuff haha Good job on this one, I think it is always good to have some tutorials from the people who build specifically for our Mimmi's
Before reading this, I wanted to get started on developing and I went to Android's official developers site, I did some steps, now I have the complete source of Android here (I use Ubuntu 10.04, the LTS version... Dunno if telling you that it is LTS ver. really matters, but just in case) andthe whole environment ready to build. Now, reading at this, I realize I don't have 4Gb of RAM on this "old" (2007..) notebook. Anyways, the thing is: I followed the steps listed here, but when I wrote this command-
Code:
$ make -j4
-the terminal started to execute files, or something... I'll add a screenshot at the end about this. It has been 3 days since that, and the terminal is still doing the same. I know developing requires a lot of patience, but... 3 days? Is this normal?? I have looked through the Internet for problems with this command, but no one seems to have talked about it.
Thanks for your time, work and effort for the community, we really appreciate it c: Bye!
Link to the Screenshot:
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh313/link_4ever/Screenshot.png
The 'make -j4' uses 4 threads to compile everything, if your notebook does not have at least an hyperthreading-technology enabled CPU, well, that's to expect when building an entire OS, plus you don't have sufficient RAM, I do have 2GB and a DualCore CPU and it takes at least 1 hour to compile an average desktop kernel with that same command. I have not tried to compile android, but I think that it will take at least 4 hours to compile everything. Just my thought.
RozenTensai said:
The 'make -j4' uses 4 threads to compile everything, if your notebook does not have at least an hyperthreading-technology enabled CPU, well, that's to expect when building an entire OS, plus you don't have sufficient RAM, I do have 2GB and a DualCore CPU and it takes at least 1 hour to compile an average desktop kernel with that same command. I have not tried to compile android, but I think that it will take at least 4 hours to compile everything. Just my thought.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your answer! Just ten minutes ago, the 'make' command finished ! And about my notebook, it is just like yours: 2Gb RAM and Dual-Core CPU, I'm not sure but I think it runs at 2,8 GHz. And also, like I said earlier, I know developing takes time. I know how slow processes can be, in fact, there were commands previously that took 1 hour or more to finish their tasks. 1 hour, 4 hours, it's ok but... 3 days? Isn't it a bit too much xd?? Now I'm afraid to turn off the computer because I don't want to compile that thing again hahaha
the "-j" option depends on the number of (virtual) cores you have.
get the number:
Code:
grep processor /proc/cpuinfo | wc -l
if you have native linux and like to work on the machine I recommend do lower the number at least -1 otherwise get a coffee and keep hands off the build process
b
make -j4, lol. Many people do not have. 4 cores on the processor
paul-xxx said:
make -j4, lol. Many people do not have. 4 cores on the processor
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This parameter refers to threads instead of hardware cores
Sp4rrow said:
This parameter refers to threads instead of hardware cores
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok. probably a mistake. but still. I always use 2. it brought to me the best results
I use j6
And also j refers to jobs everybody may change to what they want. For kernel i build with j12.
If you know better like it seems you always do write it down.
Sent from my U20i using xda premium
I can't find any 2.1.1.A.0.6 Sources. Link to the sources you use slade?
http://developer.sonyericsson.com/cws/devworld/search-downloads/opensource?cc=gb&lc=en
should be:
x10_x10mini_X10minipro_x8_eclair_2.1.A.0.435.tar.gz
Stock Kernel with only CWM5 installed...
Slade i want some help from you. how can i embed CWM5 in the stock kernel without any other changes to it??
i want a stock kernel with nothing changed in it only CWM5 installed in it. how this can be done???
i forgot to say the most important thing!: Thank you very much for your work and effort Slade
I just came to the configuration menu of the kernel. i see there are options predefined for the mimmi, but how can i optimize it more, there are soooo many options, and to tell the truth i don't have a clue what they do
Hey Guys,
i don't know, if someone other than me have had this error in the past. I searched on Google and on XDA, but I didn't found something compairing to my Error.
I'm new to kernel compiling, so I don't have some information...please don't hit me that I'm doind something like this as my first time ! I want to learn how a kernel is going to be compiled. And as extra kick, it would be great if i can make my custom kernel for just my needs on my SE 2010 X10 Mini Pro
I read slade_87's Thread http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1382917
I did all, setting up the Environment. Because of my slow Internet Connection, iI don't want to download the whole Android source, so I'm using this Toolchain https://sourcery.mentor.com/sgpp/lite/arm/portal/subscription3053. I'm doind all in a virtual Ubuntu 10.04 LTS 32bit in Vmware player 3.1.4 build-385536.
I copied the standart config from /arch/arm/configs/semc_mimmi/defconfig to .config, like in the Turtorial. I also made "ARCH=arm make menuconfig", no Problem. I didn't change anythine, because I thought I could make a mistake in the config, i just wanted to build the original source, to see if I can get this to work for some Experiments.
The Problem is when I'm executing the compile-command itself. When I'm entering "ARCH=arm CROSS_COMPILE=/home/android/kernel/arm-cc/bin/arm-none-eabi- make". After some lines....2-5 seconds or so.... i keep getting the error on the last few line in my attachment. I tried the cyanogenmod-kernel source, diffrent kernel source file from SE but i keep getting the same error, not on the same line, but always in linux/include/pagemap.h
I'm not so good in C, I'm some kind of BASIC junkie so i'm having quite a horror with C. But i thought, the Devs here, slade_87/doxian/D4rKn3sSyS/paul-xxx, don't have such simple errors, or they do know a way, how to get through this.
Could someone look at this ? Do you know a way of direction, where the error is coming ? I think, because it's always the same with different kernel source files, the errors on my side... but i can't think of any....
Thanks in Advance,
Lost Prophet
Hey XDA, no time no speak,
After writing a story about it, I went and purchased the HiSense Sero 7 Pro (I recommend you go buy one), and I decided to do a source build of CM10.1 on it. There is a problem though, the manufacturer is not responding to my request of releasing the kernel source (even though I know that GPL requires it), so an issue there obviously.
Moving on though, I decided to go ahead and sync the repo. The only problem is, I am at the part where I need to make the local_manifest.xml (which I have), but because I don't have kernel source, my directories on github (located here) are empty.
I think it's worth noting that I am on an OS X system (only got 500GB, gave 75 of it to a windows partition and its already slow, couldn't imagine fighting with a Ubuntu partition), and I read the CM wiki top to bottom, spent hours upon hours googling, and no luck. Another issue I have is that when running this command:
$ ./build/tools/device/mkvendor.sh samsung i9300 ~/Desktop/i9300boot.img
I get errors with it questioning whether or not my environment is correctly set up. I also try saw that it said "Create extract-files.sh and setup-makefiles.sh scripts" but I cant run the scripts because they arent available for mac! Sooo im in a rock and a hard place man, any assistance??
Im very much welcome to giving any additional information that you may need Thanks in advance for help
Hi, I'm trying to build CM13 for my phone, using UBUNTU.
The last thing I modified was kernel header files, and after modifying some of them, I tried to build full(make bacon or brunch) rom sources. But, it looks like it does not work, but there comes out no error. Just stuck in reading makefiles.
Accroding to make bacon -d command, it is stuck at build/core/cleanspec.mk.
I left this for about 10 mins, but nothing has changed.. I know that if it is normal, this should not be this long.
Google searched already but didn't find any helpful threads for me, so I'm asking here for some help. I already did make clean or make clobber whatever things that erases old files, and also tried for rm -rf ~/.ccache but does not work. Also tried to change toolchain but doesn't work.
ANY HELPFUL THREADS OR ANSWERS WOULD BE REALLY APPRECIATED!