I almost posted this to the discussion thread, but I truly think this deserves an exclusive topic!
Yes, guys, Samsung did it again. Just like Note 5, we now have a crappie RAM management that simply reloads every app and websites again after alternating recent apps/games. Just take a look at this first speed test side by side comparison to the iPhone 6S, made by this YouTube channel. Extremely disappointing! This is absolutely unacceptable for a so expensive device like this! Even worse, but being able to correct manage 4 GB of RAM is ridiculous!
I already ordered a Spigen Wallet S cover and I'm just waiting for Brazilian pre-order to start, but now I need to confess that I'm a bit desperate due to this performance, mainly because this simply doesn't occur when using my Galaxy Note 3!
Anyway, here it goes:
Edit: Another video added! Now against OP3.
viniciusrsouza said:
I almost posted this to the discussion thread, but I truly think this deserves an exclusive topic!
Yes, guys, Samsung did it again. Just like Note 5, we now have a crappie RAM management that simply reloads every app and websites again after alternating recent apps/games. Just take a look at this first speed test side by side comparison to the iPhone 6S, made by this YouTube channel. Extremely disappointing! This is absolutely unacceptable for a so expensive device like this! Even worse, but being able to correct manage 4 GB of RAM is ridiculous!
I already ordered a Spigen Wallet S cover and I'm just waiting for Brazilian pre-order to start, but now I need to confess that I'm a bit desperate due to this performance, mainly because this simply doesn't occur when using my Galaxy Note 3!
Anyway, here it goes:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, as soon as I saw this video, I considered canceling my order. I'm holding out hope that the Snapdragon model doesn't have this issue, but if it does, I'll simply return it. I don't care how much of a fanboy you are, there is simply NO EXCUSE for this on a $900 flagship device with 4gb of RAM.
I understand some frustration, but so people really treat their phones this way in real life? How much app switching do you do? 1 second versus 0.8 seconds really isn't a big deal for most people. Canceling an order over this seems a bit... Hasty.
Sent from my SM-N920V using XDA-Developers mobile app
That is pretty crappy. I hope they fix it.
PsiPhiDan said:
I understand some frustration, but so people really treat their phones this way in real life? How much app switching do you do? 1 second versus 0.8 seconds really isn't a big deal for most people. Canceling an order over this seems a bit... Hasty.
Sent from my SM-N920V using XDA-Developers mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Shows Samsung have not engineered the device properly. Even OnePlus got this right.
Sent from my LG-H850 using XDA-Developers mobile app
PsiPhiDan said:
I understand some frustration, but so people really treat their phones this way in real life? How much app switching do you do? 1 second versus 0.8 seconds really isn't a big deal for most people. Canceling an order over this seems a bit... Hasty.
Sent from my SM-N920V using XDA-Developers mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I truly don't bother about milliseconds delay when opening apps or even seconds more to open games (nowadays it's even pretty rare to me playing games, to be honest), as we saw in the video. The real deal is this frustrating, disappointing and, mainly, irritating "reload everything issue" that was so much discussed when Note 5 was released and recently was so criticized also about the latest 1+ device.
We expect low end devices to throw a cold water bucket on our heads while reloading everything we pick under recent apps, but this is unacceptable for the most expensive phone in the world! This is so basic.
And this is not something about not being real life. This is something about the same issue that Note 5 (don't know if S7 also) faced. You don't need to open multiple games. Just alternate between some light apps and this will be sufficient to TouchWiz kill them at background.
Also, this is ridiculous for a phone that claims itself to be a multitasking monster and it's even able to open multiple apps at once at the same time, splitting screen and/or through those bubbles S Pen feature.
For example, I'm writing all of this using my Note 3 and already alterned between weather app, Google app, Inbox and even Google Translator to help me writing this. Just imagine now if I was using Note 7 and this f* Samsung TouchWiz killing background apps thing just reloaded all my 4 Chrome tabs when I returned to it! I would have lost EVERYTHING I typed!
This is not something we can deal of we can handle/accept. No way!
jah said:
Shows Samsung have not engineered the device properly. Even OnePlus got this right.
Sent from my LG-H850 using XDA-Developers mobile app
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Click to collapse
Yeah, but it got an update to correct this issue. Originally it wasn't right. I remember watching some videos on YouTube about it. So I really have hope Samsung will fix this pretty soon also!
There should be an update for sure Even S7E have a better RAM management. I understand killing games but Youtube and browser or other light apps? Cmon Samsung that's plain stupid.
viniciusrsouza said:
I truly don't bother about milliseconds delay when opening apps or even seconds more to open games (nowadays it's even pretty rare to me playing games, to be honest), as we saw in the video. The real deal is this frustrating, disappointing and, mainly, irritating "reload everything issue" that was so much discussed when Note 5 was released and recently was so criticized also about the latest 1+ device.
We expect low end devices to throw a cold water bucket on our heads while reloading everything we pick under recent apps, but this is unacceptable for the most expensive phone in the world! This is so basic.
And this is not something about not being real life. This is something about the same issue that Note 5 (don't know if S7 also) faced. You don't need to open multiple games. Just alternate between some light apps and this will be sufficient to TouchWiz kill them at background.
Also, this is ridiculous for a phone that claims itself to be a multitasking monster and it's even able to open multiple apps at once at the same time, splitting screen and/or through those bubbles S Pen feature.
For example, I'm writing all of this using my Note 3 and already alterned between weather app, Google app, Inbox and even Google Translator to help me writing this. Just imagine now if I was using Note 7 and this f* Samsung TouchWiz killing background apps thing just reloaded all my 4 Chrome tabs when I returned to it! I would have lost EVERYTHING I typed!
This is not something we can deal of we can handle/accept. No way!
Yeah, but it got an update to correct this issue. Originally it wasn't right. I remember watching some videos on YouTube about it. So I really have hope Samsung will fix this pretty soon also!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My point is that Oneplus is a tiny company compared to Samsung. Samsung should get it right when their product is double the price of the Oneplus 3.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using XDA-Developers mobile app
PsiPhiDan said:
I understand some frustration, but so people really treat their phones this way in real life? How much app switching do you do? 1 second versus 0.8 seconds really isn't a big deal for most people. Canceling an order over this seems a bit... Hasty.
Sent from my SM-N920V using XDA-Developers mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, you're telling me you're okay with paying $900 for a device that has 4gb of RAM yet can't even keep two apps running in the background with said RAM? Because that's sad. I feel like people who downplay this have no idea how a smartphone is supposed to work. If you need an example, see the Galaxy S7 an S7 Edge, both made by Samsung, both of which handle RAM management very well. There is literally no excuse for Samsung to set the app cache settings so low on this phone.
People try to defend them by saying "battery life", but that just speaks to a severe ignorance in how RAM is utilized. Sure, if you have a badly coded app running in the background, it will take some extra battery, but for the most part, it takes MORE battery to reload the apps over and over because that's taxing the processor. It's also inexcusable on a device that is supposed to be a multitasking powerhouse for power users.
Hasty? Practical. I fell for Samsung's crap last year with the Note 5 and didn't return it in time. It took them months and an entire new version of Android to rectify the bad RAM management in that device and mine sat in a drawer because I couldn't stand to use it in its crippled state. I'm not going through that again. Not when there are devices for half the price that actually perform like they should.
I have the note 5 and my background apps rarely reload when I switch back and forth.
Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk
durandetto said:
I have the note 5 and my background apps rarely reload when I switch back and forth.
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Click to collapse
I can't believe this video has been posted in three different threads in this and the T-Mobile Note7 forum. Comparing any Android phone to an iPhone is like comparing a diesel car to a gasoline powered one. The two OS's are totally different in their approach to performance. The iPhone 6 with 1GB of RAM out benchmarked Android and the 6s only has 2MB of RAM. There are threads here where people are up in arms the Note7 only has 4GB.
As for memory management there's a balance between keeping multiple apps alive in the background for convenience and keeping too many open which impacts battery life. This is what caused all the recent drama with the OnePlus 3 and its 6GB of RAM keeping fewer apps open than the S7-series. Here's a quote from the OnePlus founder.
After a comparison video earlier this week showed us that the OnePlus 3’s 6GB of RAM might not give it the insane multitasking capabilities we all hoped, OnePlus CEO Carl Pei has responded with a few clarifications surrounding RAM management on the OnePlus 3. On paper, 6GB of RAM would lead most users to believe that they could easily have several apps open at a time without anything reloading, however upon getting devices, many users have found that the phone can only hold 3 or 4 apps in memory before removing them. Why is that the case? Pei [the OnePlus founder] quite simply responded by saying that OnePlus has a “different strategy for RAM management that benefits battery”. While battery is definitely a valid concern with the OnePlus 3 considering the smaller 3,000 mAh capacity, it’s definitely a bit disappointing to see performance given up in exchange. That said however, there is a way to get around this. Carl Pei explained in another tweet that the RAM management can be adjusted in third-party ROMs. So with other ROMs that should be released pretty soon, developers could easily change the RAM management to a far less aggressive setting. A potential fix using the first party ROM is currently floating around on XDA, but Pei reminds us that RAM management is handled by more than just the build.prop, so don’t put too much faith in that “fix”.
http://9to5google.com/2016/06/17/on...-surrounding-ram-management-on-the-oneplus-3/
Samsung took huge flack on the S6 because it only kept 3-4 background apps alive. It improved on the Note5 to 5-7 which is what I've experienced over the past year. I'd expect similar performance in the Note7. With all the unique strengths and features the Note7 has if the number of background apps open is a top priority maybe folks should reconsider their purchase decision.
BarryH_GEG said:
Comparing any Android phone to an iPhone is like comparing a diesel car to a gasoline powered one.
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Click to collapse
What's wrong with doing that ? If you see that the gasoline powered one is much faster, that might then be a reason to buy that one. Even more so if it's cheaper (like the iphone is nowadays).
As for memory management there's a balance between keeping multiple apps alive in the background for convenience and keeping too many open which impacts battery life. This is what caused all the recent drama with the OnePlus 3 and its 6GB of RAM keeping fewer apps open than the S7-series. Here's a quote from the OnePlus founder.
After a comparison video earlier this week showed us that the OnePlus 3’s 6GB of RAM might not give it the insane multitasking capabilities we all hoped, OnePlus CEO Carl Pei has responded with a few clarifications surrounding RAM management on the OnePlus 3. On paper, 6GB of RAM would lead most users to believe that they could easily have several apps open at a time without anything reloading, however upon getting devices, many users have found that the phone can only hold 3 or 4 apps in memory before removing them. Why is that the case? Pei [the OnePlus founder] quite simply responded by saying that OnePlus has a “different strategy for RAM management that benefits battery”. While battery is definitely a valid concern with the OnePlus 3 considering the smaller 3,000 mAh capacity, it’s definitely a bit disappointing to see performance given up in exchange. That said however, there is a way to get around this. Carl Pei explained in another tweet that the RAM management can be adjusted in third-party ROMs. So with other ROMs that should be released pretty soon, developers could easily change the RAM management to a far less aggressive setting. A potential fix using the first party ROM is currently floating around on XDA, but Pei reminds us that RAM management is handled by more than just the build.prop, so don’t put too much faith in that “fix”.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ram usage itself has absolutely nothing to do with battery usage. Unused ram cells don't consume less battery. What this guy is saying though is that background processes can use CPU cycles: when accumulated CPU cycles cause the CPU to boost its speed, then it will have an impact on battery life. But that's more due to badly written apps, why would a game that the user is not playing want to stress the CPU ? It's like facebook, that's a perfect example of a horrible written app. Regardless off how many apps you are running, that app will drain battery due to doing tons of stuff in the background and keeping your phone awake. So it's not a matter of how many apps you are running simultaneously, it's a matter of which apps you are running.
Entitlement runs amok. Nobody has a gun to your head and is forcing you to buy it. The other 99% of people who would buy this phone won't care.
GeoFX said:
Entitlement runs amok. Nobody has a gun to your head and is forcing you to buy it. The other 99% of people who would buy this phone won't care.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Man it's just frustration. We all want to buy this phone because it looks so sleak, has this nice catchy iris scanner etc. But then again, it means you'll have to deal with Touchwiz and all of its problems and Samsung's horrible update policy again. The alternative is buying the HTC Nexus next month but that device doesn't nearly look as cool, let alone have new features like an iris scanner. If Samsung would make the Nexus, now that would be a device to look forward to
gekkehenkie11 said:
Man it's just frustration. We all want to buy this phone because it looks so sleak, has this nice catchy iris scanner etc. But then again, it means you'll have to deal with Touchwiz and all of its problems and Samsung's horrible update policy again. The alternative is buying the HTC Nexus next month but that device doesn't nearly look as cool, let alone have new features like an iris scanner. If Samsung would make the Nexus, now that would be a device to look forward to
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can't have it both ways nor can you expect Samsung to listen to bunch of people on xda to devote time and resources to fix things. The limitations of Touchwiz can be 80% mitigated by spending $2 on Nova Prime if you truly hate it.
People need to seriously prioritize what they expect in the phone. Again, nobody is forcing you to buy the phone and if RAM managment or an unlocked bootloader is really that necessary, get a HTC, OnePlus, or the upcoming Nexus. I expect people who can afford a $850 phone to have other more important priorities in their purchasing decisions.
BarryH_GEG said:
Comparing any Android phone to an iPhone is like comparing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It was also compared to the Note 5 which had the same issue until it was eventually fixed. This information was available in the OP had you read instead of skimmed.
And it doesn't matter what OS is running: Android, IOS, Mac, Windows, Linux, etc., no app should completely reload after it has already been started.
durandetto said:
I have the note 5 and my background apps rarely reload when I switch back and forth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you had read the post above yours, you would have noticed that the issue had been subsequently fixed in a later patch on the Note 5.
Come on, people: read, don't skim.
GeoFX said:
The limitations of Touchwiz can be 80% mitigated by spending $2 on Nova Prime if you truly hate it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's nonsense. A launcher itself wont change anything regarding the deeper/core android processes like the ram management.
I expect people who can afford a $850 phone to have other more important priorities in their purchasing decisions.
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Click to collapse
I dont know. What I do know is that a lot of Iphone users buy the phone, partly, because they love the smoothness of the interface. In fact I recently spoke to a friend of mine who is a really smart university grad in IT, I found out he was on Iphone which surprised me a bit. When I asked him why he said he couldnt stand Android's interface. I said "You mean Touchwiz". He said "what" ? Lol. What I'm saying is, most people dont even know what Touchwiz is, but they do see that a Samsung phone is just not running as smooth as an iphone and I'm 100% confident that that DOES cause people to buy an iphone over a Galaxy.
GeoFX said:
I expect people who can afford a $850 phone to have other more important priorities in their purchasing decisions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you're paying for the most expensive device available, you will want to do with it whatever you want (unlocked bootloader, ROM it, etc.). It should operate near-flawlessly. Or quickly be patched to. You should demand the absolute best.
Telling people to just accept whatever they get when spending that much money for a device is just unacceptable. Like the old adage goes:
"You get what you pay for."
There's a reason why there are cheaper vehicles, boats, homes, etc. The cheaper they are, the less you're going to get out of them.
Multi-tasking is non-existent when apps reload after they've already been loaded. This is a deal-breaker. I won't be purchasing this device now until it's been fixed. There's zero excuses for a the most expensive flagship device available to have such a glaring and easily-fixable flaw.
gekkehenkie11 said:
That's nonsense. A launcher itself wont change anything regarding the deeper android processes like the ram management.
I dont know. What I do know is that a lot of Iphone users buy the phone, partly, because they love the smoothness of the interface. In fact I recently spoke to a friend of mine who is a really smart university grad in IT, I found out he was on Iphone which surprised me a bit. When I asked him why he said he couldnt stand Android's interface. I said "You mean Touchwiz". He said "what" ? Lol. What I'm saying is, most people dont even know what Touchwiz is, but they do see that a Samsung phone is just not running as smooth as an iphone and I'm 100% confident that that DOES cause people to buy an iphone over a Galaxy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was responding directly to the Touchwiz comment and it's limitations. The RAM management issues go beyond Touchwiz and is probably kernel related.
So who cares about why people by an Iphone vs. a Samsung? It's not like Samsung is losing sleep over the perceived crappy RAM management of their phones affecting sales. I still state that people who can afford a flagship Samsung phone vs. other android phones have other priorities than worrying about this stuff when making their purchase. Things like design, a S-pen, smaller form factors for a given screen size, wireless charging, etc. would be better justifications. Again, if you need the other stuff for dev work or "full" control, get another phone. Samsung won't change anything for people here on XDA so it's pointless having angst over this stuff.
---------- Post added at 10:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:50 AM ----------
-BoneZ- said:
If you're paying for the most expensive device available, you will want to do with it whatever you want (unlocked bootloader, ROM it, etc.). It should operate near-flawlessly. Or quickly be patched to. You should demand the absolute best.
Telling people to just accept whatever they get when spending that much money for a device is just unacceptable. Like the old adage goes:
"You get what you pay for."
There's a reason why there are cheaper vehicles, boats, homes, etc. The cheaper they are, the less you're going to get out of them.
Multi-tasking is non-existent when apps reload after they've already been loaded. This is a deal-breaker. I won't be purchasing this device now until it's been fixed. There's zero excuses for a the most expensive flagship device available to have such a glaring and easily-fixable flaw.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe for you but for the 99% of the people purchasing this phone who cares? People don't refuse to buy BMWs anymore because they took away the dipstick to check oil (which they have for close to the past 10 years). Don't think for a minute that you're important enough for Samsung to care that you won't buy the phone because of perceived flaws. I find it hilarious when people ***** about not having root or an unlocked bootloader on a phone and when they finally do get that they cry about not being able to use Samsung Pay. Duh...that's the reason why these phones are locked to begin with.
GeoFX said:
I was responding directly to the Touchwiz comment and it's limitations. The RAM management issues go beyond Touchwiz and is probably kernel related.
So who cares about why people by an Iphone vs. a Samsung? It's not like Samsung is losing sleep over the perceived crappy RAM management of their phones affecting sales. I still state that people who can afford a flagship Samsung phone vs. other android phones have other priorities than worrying about this stuff when making their purchase. Things like design, a S-pen, smaller form factors for a given screen size, wireless charging, etc. would be better justifications. Again, if you need the other stuff for dev work or "full" control, get another phone. Samsung won't change anything for people here on XDA so it's pointless having angst over this stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think Samsung could have pushed Iphone out of the market by now if they had delivered phones that would beat the iphone in every aspect. Samsung's hardware is usually better but their software department is horrible and extremely slow in pushing out updates. The whole reason Iphone still exists is that Samsung is just not delivering what a lot of users want. In fact, if I didnt hate Itunes that much I'd probably kiss Android goodbye and buy an iphone (it works the other way around too, apple could have killed Samsung too, at least in the flagship department, if they listened a bit better to what people want, or did you actually meet someone who likes Itunes ?)
Related
Hi, I am looking for a highen tablet and the two that are considered the "best" are the Google Nexus 10 and the Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1. 60% of the time that I will be using this tablet is going to be for android app development and quick reference, ie googling a question. The other 40% is mostly going to be used for school and sometimes games . Any ideas which one I should get? Thanks.
RandomAwesomeGuy said:
Hi, I am looking for a highen tablet and the two that are considered the "best" are the Google Nexus 10 and the Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1. 60% of the time that I will be using this tablet is going to be for android app development and quick reference, ie googling a question. The other 40% is mostly going to be used for school and sometimes games . Any ideas which one I should get? Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unless you really need the wacom tablet features, for you I'd say the Nexus 10 without any hesitation. The Nexus line has developers as a target audience, and it'll be faster to get Android updates. As far as 10" tablets go, there simply is no better option for development. The higher resolution screen and A15 processor also make it more future proof than the Note 10.1.
RandomAwesomeGuy said:
Hi, I am looking for a highen tablet and the two that are considered the "best" are the Google Nexus 10 and the Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1. 60% of the time that I will be using this tablet is going to be for android app development and quick reference, ie googling a question. The other 40% is mostly going to be used for school and sometimes games . Any ideas which one I should get? Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nexus 10
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
As long as you posted it in the n10 forum all the comments will say buy n10 because they already prefered it over other devices, same will happen when you post in the note forum , so the best way to know is to try both by yourself and decide, both are the best in market btw so don't go for anything other than them
Sent from my GT-N8000 using xda app-developers app
I can't really tell you which is better because both are "good" tablets. Neither is great in my opinion, though for me, I preferred the nexus 10 over the note 10.1 (and I own a note phone).
Reasons: Nexus 10 resolution is fantastic but the contrast compared to a superAMOLED screen is pittiful. Nexus 10 displays blacks like greys. Still, the resolution makes up for it because even with my eyeball one inch from the screen, I cannot see a pixel.
Another negative that nexus is probably not so good for developing is 4.2.1. At least half my apps crash on the nexus, or are simply not optimized for the crazy high resolution. While developing for 4.2.1 would be smart, keep in mind that most devices are still on ICS or gingerbread still. When I go to an app in the market half of the 1 star reviews are from people saying it crashes on xxx device running 4.0/2.3 android.
So pick you poison. Luckily the note 10.1 can be found on "deals" for less than the $500+ nexus 10.
LxMxFxD said:
I can't really tell you which is better because both are "good" tablets. Neither is great in my opinion, though for me, I preferred the nexus 10 over the note 10.1 (and I own a note phone).
Reasons: Nexus 10 resolution is fantastic but the contrast compared to a superAMOLED screen is pittiful. Nexus 10 displays blacks like greys. Still, the resolution makes up for it because even with my eyeball one inch from the screen, I cannot see a pixel.
Another negative that nexus is probably not so good for developing is 4.2.1. At least half my apps crash on the nexus, or are simply not optimized for the crazy high resolution. While developing for 4.2.1 would be smart, keep in mind that most devices are still on ICS or gingerbread still. When I go to an app in the market half of the 1 star reviews are from people saying it crashes on xxx device running 4.0/2.3 android.
So pick you poison. Luckily the note 10.1 can be found on "deals" for less than the $500+ nexus 10.
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Click to collapse
I pretty agree with this, but my apps don't crash on 4.2.1, none, and nexus 10 costs 400$ and 500$, not only 500$.
I would go for the nexus 10. Better screen, better support, fast updates, and no stupid Samsung UI. Oh and the nexus has one of the newest exynos processors.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using xda app-developers app
specter491 said:
no stupid Samsung UI.
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Click to collapse
The "pure Google" thing is getting funny. What could possibly be better about having less features rather than more? Back in the days of 512K of RAM when SoCs were slow and overlays crude, poor performance drove people to AOSP/AOKP and de-bloated custom ROMs. That's not really the case anymore. The h/w is now more capable than the UI and apps running on it.
I played with a friend’s N10 over the holidays and, feature wise, it was a barren wasteland compared to the Note. The phone UI on a 10" tablet is bizarre. Similarly he was amazed at what the Note could do that his N10 couldn't. The N10 has a faster SoC than the Note but when you factor in the PPI it's pushing and that memory bandwidth is hard-partitioned to support the display it's certainly not any faster. And with app incompatibility because of the resolution some apps behave poorly or don’t work at all.
The Note has IO accessories available to match the N10's ports, takes up to a 64GB exFAT SD card for expansion, has an IR port, larger speakers than the N10, and gets significantly better battery life and charges 1/3 faster. It also doesn't have light bleed. Without question the N10 will get updates ten times faster than the Note. But so what, it'll still do 1/3 of the things the Note can do right now. It'll just be Google's barren OS with updates. I've disabled Google Now because I don't use any of their native apps that it depends on to harvest data and for some reason it thinks I work at a McDonalds because I stop at one frequently. As a value-priced consumption device with a great display the N10's a solid choice. For people interested in creating and managing content the Note's a better choice. Its 147PPI display is fine for pics and videos and doesn't require upscaling like the N10's display does. It's obviously not as good for text and computer generated content like the UI and that's a compromise you have to make to get the additional features. So for people looking for something beyond consumption I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the Note. It's already sold 5MM units and I'd be surprised based on its limited distribution if the N10's sold 1MM.
OP, if the things in this video mean anything to you consider the Note. If all you care about is consumption and the display the N10's a better choice.
BarryH_GEG said:
The "pure Google" thing is getting funny. What could possibly be better about having less features rather than more? Back in the days of 512K of RAM when SoCs were slow and overlays crude, poor performance drove people to AOSP/AOKP and de-bloated custom ROMs. That's not really the case anymore. The h/w is now more capable than the UI and apps running on it.
I played with a friend’s N10 over the holidays and, feature wise, it was a barren wasteland compared to the Note. The phone UI on a 10" tablet is bizarre. Similarly he was amazed at what the Note could do that his N10 couldn't. The N10 has a faster SoC than the Note but when you factor in the PPI it's pushing and that memory bandwidth is hard-partitioned to support the display it's certainly not any faster. And with app incompatibility because of the resolution some apps behave poorly or don’t work at all.
The Note has IO accessories available to match the N10's ports, takes up to a 64GB exFAT SD card for expansion, has an IR port, larger speakers than the N10, and gets significantly better battery life and charges 1/3 faster. It also doesn't have light bleed. Without question the N10 will get updates ten times faster than the Note. But so what, it'll still do 1/3 of the things the Note can do right now. It'll just be Google's barren OS with updates. I've disabled Google Now because I don't use any of their native apps that it depends on to harvest data and for some reason it thinks I work at a McDonalds because I stop at one frequently. As a value-priced consumption device with a great display the N10's a solid choice. For people interested in creating and managing content the Note's a better choice. Its 147PPI display is fine for pics and videos and doesn't require upscaling like the N10's display does. It's obviously not as good for text and computer generated content like the UI and that's a compromise you have to make to get the additional features. So for people looking for something beyond consumption I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the Note. It's already sold 5MM units and I'd be surprised based on its limited distribution if the N10's sold 1MM.
OP, if the things in this video mean anything to you consider the Note. If all you care about is consumption and the display the N10's a better choice.
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Click to collapse
Just like stock doesnt work for you, Touchwiz simply doesnt work for others. Some dont like it because its ugly, some dont like it because it introduces compatibility problems with apps (a really big concern for this post considering OP is a dev), some dont like them because they slow down the device (more so with Motorola's skins). The only advantage I see with Touchwiz over stock is the multiwindow stuff, and then its nothing that others, be it Google themselves or devs here, couldn't replicate.
Jotokun said:
Just like stock doesnt work for you, Touchwiz simply doesnt work for others. Some dont like it because its ugly, some dont like it because it introduces compatibility problems with apps (a really big concern for this post considering OP is a dev), some dont like them because they slow down the device (more so with Motorola's skins). The only advantage I see with Touchwiz over stock is the multiwindow stuff, and then its nothing that others, be it Google themselves or devs here, couldn't replicate.
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Click to collapse
It also has S-Pen features, but as you said, it really goes both ways.
Also, it's not a question of "can" they do it. It's more of a question of "will" they do it. Just because Google or some dev "can" replicate it, doesn't mean it'll come to the N10.
I'm not siding with either one here, but they both have their merits and faults.
As for app development, I'd think the N10 is a better choice for you mainly because it'll be up to date software-wise for a long long while and you can continue to develop apps.
Jotokun said:
Just like stock doesnt work for you, Touchwiz simply doesnt work for others. Some dont like it because its ugly, some dont like it because it introduces compatibility problems with apps (a really big concern for this post considering OP is a dev), some dont like them because they slow down the device (more so with Motorola's skins). The only advantage I see with Touchwiz over stock is the multiwindow stuff, and then its nothing that others, be it Google themselves or devs here, couldn't replicate.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're absolutely right - it's a matter of individual choice. With h/w having reached the state it has performance increases are measured in milliseconds. For people that are more interested in benchmarks and picking up 1/10 of a second in screen transitions than actually getting stuff done a Nexus device is an excellent choice. By the time you add (if they exist) non-integrated third party apps from developers ranging from excellent to sketchy to replicate the Note's features you have as much (if not more) bloat on it and the apps don't work as well together. Can you wireless transmit content from your N10 to any HDMI-equipped output device? By the time Miracast reaches critical mass the N10 III will be out. Someone above mentioned Nexus as a developers platform. Those days are gone too. With value-based starting prices for the N4/N7/N10 of $299/$199/$399 respectively and a decidedly lower focus on build quality Nexus is now a mainstream consumer product with its lead feature being price/value. The GN which was a revered device on XDA only sold 750K copies. That sort of says something about what's really important to making a device commercially successful and being “pure” and getting “fast updates” doesn’t seem to be it.
BarryH_GEG said:
The GN which was a revered device on XDA only sold 750K copies. That sort of says something about what's really important to making a device commercially successful and being “pure” and getting “fast updates” doesn’t seem to be it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The GN was banned at least once in the US from my knowledge, and given the short lifespan of smartphones, it's only natural that the GN was already superseded by the imminent S3.
lKBZl said:
I pretty agree with this, but my apps don't crash on 4.2.1, none, and nexus 10 costs 400$ and 500$, not only 500$.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nexus 10 16GB is $444 with shipping & tax, Nexus 10 32GB is $553 with shipping and tax.
I got mine on a "deal" from staples because I had a $10 off coupon and shipping was free. After tax it was still $533. Google charges tax to every state in USA as far as I know, except the states without a sales tax. New Hampshire?
As for apps crashing... HDhomerun 2 crashes constantly, chrome has completely locked up my device, and other apps just randomly force close. I've only had the device for 2 days and its running completely stock. I know that over time things will crash less so i'm not complaining a whole lot. But its quite annoying.
404 ERROR said:
The GN was banned at least once in the US from my knowledge.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It was banned very late in its lifecycle when sales were already down to a trickle because better spec'd devices had been out for a while. The point that I was making is that the GN was available at subsidized prices similar to other phones with overlays from the U.S. carriers. Its "pureness" and "fast updates" didn't sway mainstream consumers for it to have sold so poorly during its peak selling period. Outside of XDA, people like overlays because they make devices easier to use which is why the OEMs offer them.
Here's an article talking about it...
Google just can't catch a break with its Nexus phones. While the "pure Google" experience of the company's Nexus phones tends to generate fanatical loyalty from extreme Android frothers, it seems to appeal to almost no one else. In a federal court today, a Samsung lawyer said the sales of its latest Galaxy Nexus phone were "so miniscule" that it isn't a threat to anyone. Samsung's lawyers said the company took in about $250 million from the Galaxy Nexus during the first two quarters [where revenue is in the billions] it was on sale. That isn't nothing, but it's far short of a hit. Available on Verizon, Sprint, and in an unlocked model for T-Mobile and AT&T, the Nexus managed to sell at about the level of T-Mobile's Galaxy S 4G when it had its two best quarters. It fell far short of a hit like Sprint's Epic 4G or Verizon's Fascinate, according to court documents from Samsung's big California patent case against Apple.
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2408712,00.asp
BarryH_GEG said:
It was banned very late in its lifecycle when sales were already down to a trickle because better spec'd devices had been out for a while. The point that I was making is that the GN was available at subsidized prices similar to other phones with overlays from the U.S. carriers. Its "pureness" and "fast updates" didn't sway mainstream consumers for it to have sold so poorly during its peak selling period. Outside of XDA, people like overlays because they make devices easier to use which is why the OEMs offer them.
Here's an article talking about it...
Google just can't catch a break with its Nexus phones. While the "pure Google" experience of the company's Nexus phones tends to generate fanatical loyalty from extreme Android frothers, it seems to appeal to almost no one else. In a federal court today, a Samsung lawyer said the sales of its latest Galaxy Nexus phone were "so miniscule" that it isn't a threat to anyone. Samsung's lawyers said the company took in about $250 million from the Galaxy Nexus during the first two quarters [where revenue is in the billions] it was on sale. That isn't nothing, but it's far short of a hit. Available on Verizon, Sprint, and in an unlocked model for T-Mobile and AT&T, the Nexus managed to sell at about the level of T-Mobile's Galaxy S 4G when it had its two best quarters. It fell far short of a hit like Sprint's Epic 4G or Verizon's Fascinate, according to court documents from Samsung's big California patent case against Apple.
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2408712,00.asp
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought it was much earlier, but regardless, you're right in that fast updates and pureness don't sell. But I sincerely doubt that hardware itself is also what makes sales soar. Yeah, the S3 sale is simply outstanding, but I'm sure the majority of S3 owners only bought the S3 because it's something new (among the iPhones) and because they "heard" from nearly everywhere that it's a smartphone that can compete well against the iPhone. And yes, the hardware helps with that definitely, but the majority don't care if it has an Exynons 4412 SoC inside clocked at 1.4 gHz.
What I consider as the best reason for poor Nexus sales is that Google just sucks at advertising. I never saw once in my life a billboard or a TV commercial about the Galaxy Nexus on it. I only knew about it because I like tech and try to keep up with what's new. I see Google doing a better job with the recent Nexus line though, but now that Samsung has gained so much popularity with its own flagship line, people are going to keep their eyes on any new pure Samsung products (the S4 and Note III).
So how does this relate to the OP - it really doesn't .
I will have to agree that anything in the Nexus line is a better developer platform. Yes, it's commercialized as an average consumer product, but the long support from Google will give it the advantage in development because you can continue to develop apps without having to worry about breaking compatibility in newer devices. Also, you won't have to deal with ROM ports that may work but also may also not work completely.
Google Nexus 10 or Note 10
I think that is one hard question to ask? I think Galaxy Note 10 is really awesome phablet, i mean, tablet if you really like writing or drawing stuff on the go, but the size can be the problem if you want to carry it to public area.
So maybe you should pick up Note 5.5-inch instead.
Google Nexus 10 is also one great device, especially with its eye-pleasing screen and fast performance. I also like when Google Earth is run on this device.
Yeah, it's hard question.
Hi all, thank you for your responses. My next question is: I been going to stores looking for the tablets on display, but no luck for finding a Nexus 10. Does it feel cheap? Also from going to the stores, I really like the feature on the Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 that has the navigation controls on the bottom left and the toggles/notifications menu on the right, but the nexus has only the navigation controls in the center. Is it bothersome or does it feel normal to use. Note: I have been using an iPhone and iPad for regular use/programming, and I only had contact with an android device at the stores and using the strictly developer use only android tablets at school, they are all 7-inch tablets, and you get in a lot of trouble if you play with them. Thank you, again.
First thing you'll notice is the screen on the N10 is miles better than the Note 10.1. When the Note gets a SAMOLED I'm getting one. Until then the N10 is the better machine. Plus the faster CPU, and they're both Samsung, why would anybody choose a Note 10.1 instead? Only the stylus. So make that your pivot question. Do you need a stylus or not.
RandomAwesomeGuy said:
Hi all, thank you for your responses. My next question is: I been going to stores looking for the tablets on display, but no luck for finding a Nexus 10. Does it feel cheap? Also from going to the stores, I really like the feature on the Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 that has the navigation controls on the bottom left and the toggles/notifications menu on the right, but the nexus has only the navigation controls in the center. Is it bothersome or does it feel normal to use. Note: I have been using an iPhone and iPad for regular use/programming, and I only had contact with an android device at the stores and using the strictly developer use only android tablets at school, they are all 7-inch tablets, and you get in a lot of trouble if you play with them. Thank you, again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Nexus certainly does not feel cheap. The plastic has an almost rubbery feel, not at all cold like metallic tablets and not rigid or creaky like most other Android tablets. IMO its one of the best feeling tablets out there.
The buttons on left, notifications on right are how things were done on Android tablets from 3.0 through 4.1. The new layout doesn't quite feel as natural in landscape, but it was done in the name of consistency with phones and probably is the right move for the future. While Samsung might stick with the traditional layout, there's also a very good chance that in a future firmware update the Note 10.1 could adopt the N10's button layout. I wouldn't say its bad, far from it. The old layout is just a little more comfortable, since if you're holding your tablet with both hands you dont have to let go on one to do something (home/back/etc.).
Jotokun said:
The Nexus certainly does not feel cheap. The plastic has an almost rubbery feel, not at all cold like metallic tablets and not rigid or creaky like most other Android tablets. IMO its one of the best feeling tablets out there.
The buttons on left, notifications on right are how things were done on Android tablets from 3.0 through 4.1. The new layout doesn't quite feel as natural in landscape, but it was done in the name of consistency with phones and probably is the right move for the future. While Samsung might stick with the traditional layout, there's also a very good chance that in a future firmware update the Note 10.1 could adopt the N10's button layout. I wouldn't say its bad, far from it. The old layout is just a little more comfortable, since if you're holding your tablet with both hands you dont have to let go on one to do something (home/back/etc.).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, from my knowledge, the Nexus 10 has two pull down menus from the top, is this correct? And what is each one? Also, Does any one know if there is a rom/mod that enables the old layout? Thanks, again.
So, I've owned only Android devices since I began buying smartphones and tablets, but I really feel like very little has changed with regards to Android's performance ever since the Snapdragon 800 in 2013. Even the addition of more RAM and higher-spec processors hasn't really changed much about the AOSP experience, and my old (GPE-converted) Galaxy S4 still feels like I could throw most anything at it.
With the Nexus 6P finally bringing the last few things I really wanted in a mobile phone (the fingerprint sensor, metal, 1440p AMOLED, pure Android without compromising the camera, USB-C), I'm really thinking that this may be my last Android phone for a long while. I feel like, while equally unnecessary, the N6P will offer the pinnacle of stock Android, while rounding out the feature set of all I look for. I was debating whether to cheap out and buy a N5X for dev and general mucking about, but I think I will instead commit to getting the 6P for the above reasons.
My last upgrade to the G3 was almost unnecessary, even though I love the phone. I only upgraded, since my S4's power button broke and headphone jack got a bit wonky. Had that not happened, I think I'd be still using it today as my DD. I didn't even feel the itch to upgrade to any of this year's devices (except the Nexus phones and the buzz around the fp sensor and camera), and I've already had the device for more than a year.
While it may be an unpopular opinion around these parts, I think I may switch to an iPhone (probably the 7+) when my contract is up just to see how that platform improves over the next couple of years. A second GB of RAM totally changed that phone, which shows just how behind they are in some aspects, and where potential lies. I just don't see Android making any earth-shattering changes, mostly because it doesn't need to anymore. OEMs drive their own crap update cycle by bogging down their updates and the like, a problem which never existed on my GPE-converted S4, and won't exist on the Nexus.
Don't really know why I felt like making this post, but I did. :silly:
I agree with you on certain points.
But remember,
my old (GPE-converted) Galaxy S4 still feels like I could throw most anything at it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You did something to your phone in order to be fast / smooth / etc. While we as a community continue to do this and find ways to improve everything.. Android (stock) has come a long way.
I'm really thinking that this may be my last Android phone for a long while.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You reasoning for this is there is nothing really new on Android and Android phones haven't really evolved much but the same goes for iOS. This coming from someone who keeps going back and forth from Android to iOS. iOS is much more polished and needs less specs to run smooth, but you also have to remember they only have to worry about support their own hardware. And while yes, there has been phone upgrades from Apple (bigger screen, etc.), this is stuff Android has been doing for a long time.
It's kind of hard honestly.. after a certain point.. development / upgrades happen slower.. when jumping from phone to phone now, things don't seem like much of an upgrade. I think that's because we upgrade phones so often now, we don't notice the differences as much. But say you had to keep your S4 for another year without the ability to root / install a custom ROM, I'm sure you'd be all over the N6P.
While XDA has made Android development much bigger and contributed in a positive way, it has also kind of spoiled us and made us think the way you are.
For me the big things that keep me on android are customization and the ability to do what I want with the phone (not what Apple or anyone else wants me to do). I would love to say this would be my last phone for a while but 2 things will prevent that....
1. I'm a tech junkie
2. Android support is 2 years
Well, the LG G3 isnt the best phone... you'll probably like the Nexus 6P a LOT!
I said that with the Nexus 6. I might still keep the Nexus 6 but I'm at least going to give the 6P a shot.
Sent from my Nexus 6 using XDA Free mobile app
I'm not far behind but not because Android vs Apple but because my life centers around MS products. I work in IT, exclusively with MS products. Why is my mobile device on a different ecosystem?
I'm excited for what MS has in store for their APIs that allow ios and Android apps to behave as if they're in their natural environment. I think this approach is going to flatten the playing field and OS will no longer matter.
Now if they could just make tech without built in obsolescion the market will start filling with devices that have purpose instead of purely consumerism. There WILL be a threshold of device waste that will force our hand.
Excel made some good points. And I too felt the same about not seeing much improvement from my phone but the continuous development thru ROMs makes it seems like the progress is small but it not....if you tally up the progress over the 1 year iPhone life cycle it is a lot of progress.
Google has too many things going on and unfortunately doesn't take the time to perfect their products except their search engine. They rather create a new product versus refining an existing one.
Imagine if google only had drive, no gmail, no G+, a tablet, one PC, and Android that ran on a single phone from one manufacturer....say LG. And Kept that same phone and just improved the hardware each year and the software as well....and diverted all other efforts towards perfecting that single device. That phone would be light years ahead of apple. Instead google has close to 200 products and services they wear themselves thin with. And tackling the immense task of attempting to make android run seemless and smooth on
Almost 19,000 devices instead of on just a handful of devices plus one phone is the difference between google and apple.
With that said and even with google continuing to expand like they do....I still think Google's android os running on top tier android devices will surpass IPhones in all aspects in couple years.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Free mobile app
Exel said:
You did something to your phone in order to be fast / smooth / etc. While we as a community continue to do this and find ways to improve everything.. Android (stock) has come a long way.
You reasoning for this is there is nothing really new on Android and Android phones haven't really evolved much but the same goes for iOS. This coming from someone who keeps going back and forth from Android to iOS. iOS is much more polished and needs less specs to run smooth, but you also have to remember they only have to worry about support their own hardware. And while yes, there has been phone upgrades from Apple (bigger screen, etc.), this is stuff Android has been doing for a long time
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Partially correct on the first point. It is fundamentally still "stock" (no kernel mods/custom features) on GPE firmware, but yes, I haven't tried stock since the original shipping firmware. I haven't rooted my phones since putting GPE on the S4. My Nexus 9, the G3, and the S4 all run unrooted, the former two of which are on stock firmware. The biggest pain about Android is debloating carrier crapware, a problem nonexistent on Nexus devices.
I feel like Android has matured to the point that there is little left to give. As far as supporting their own stuff, that's why I feel like the N6P would be the ultimate.
WoodroweBones said:
For me the big things that keep me on android are customization and the ability to do what I want with the phone (not what Apple or anyone else wants me to do). I would love to say this would be my last phone for a while but 2 things will prevent that....
1. I'm a tech junkie
2. Android support is 2 years
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, but customisation is so easy to do on Android without mods or root. The only other phone I was considering was the S6 edge +, which is also comparably restrictive. I just haven't felt the need to root since the S4.
An iPhone, on the other hand, I would be keen to jailbreak instantly. Quite a lot of interesting tweaks come out of Apple's "crack R&D team" (like swipeselection....), and jailbreaking is the only way to stay on that edge and get appropriate customisation.
I would also be using pretty much solely Google apps there anyway, since the default apps are kinda terrible.
bsg411 said:
Google has too many things going on and unfortunately doesn't take the time to perfect their products except their search engine. They rather create a new product versus refining an existing one.
Imagine if google only had drive, no gmail, no G+, a tablet, one PC, and Android that ran on a single phone from one manufacturer....That phone would be light years ahead of apple. Instead google has close to 200 products and services they wear themselves thin with.
With that said and even with google continuing to expand like they do....I still think Google's android os running on top tier android devices will surpass IPhones in all aspects in couple years.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But the diversity is the beauty of Google. The fact that they move the ecosystem forward and have a constant stream of novelty across their business is what helps them succeed. Android itself doesn't really need more improvement, is my argument. It's already there, and their job is to create new services to drive the platform.
Android as an OS already far exceeds that of iOS IMO, especially with Google Now. What I want to see is how Apple catches , since their platform seems to still be in flux (as far as performance and service delivery goes).
You'll change your mind when they release the Nexus 14z, which will project it's 16k display directly to your brain, and be able to read your thoughts instead of having to speak "OK Google".
I'm serious, because Google will have perfected mind control by then and we'll all be drones.
All hail Masters Page and Brin, our merciful overlords!
---------- Post added at 09:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:31 PM ----------
Seriously though, I admire your pragmatic upgrade preferences on smartphones.
TemporaryTester said:
But the diversity is the beauty of Google. The fact that they move the ecosystem forward and have a constant stream of novelty across their business is what helps them succeed. Android itself doesn't really need more improvement, is my argument. It's already there, and their job is to create new services to drive the platform.
Android as an OS already far exceeds that of iOS IMO, especially with Google Now. What I want to see is how Apple catches , since their platform seems to still be in flux (as far as performance and service delivery goes).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you the software is better but implementing all the services via the OS on a multitude of devices is a difficult task. However starting with this 6P nexus devices I think are on par with iPhone (hardware and software) and I bet will surpass the iPhone 7 next year.
I just wish they worked with one manufacturer to help perfect the hardware and built on a good hardware design instead of going back and forth with with hardware features and designs .....kinda like the 5x with 6P features.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Free mobile app
If the 6P lives up to the hype, the improvements left are physics stuff: battery life, moar camera, lighter/thinner/stronger, waterproof, sapphire display.
That said, iPhones have been such a bitter disappointment since the Gingerbread days. I'm on Apple for the most part (MBr, iMac 5k) and would consider switching to iOS but the differentiators that custom Androids offer simply aren't there, or even possible. The current crop of crippled hardware is missing too much. When Apple makes a real retina display (eg AMOLED 2k) and loses the oversized HTC-ish bezels it'll be worth another look. Assuming Apple gives out widgets, call recording & MinMinGuard too.
WoodroweBones said:
2. Android support is 2 years
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For a Nexus device the support window is 3 years. N5 is 2 years old and just recieved Android 6.0. It will continue to get updates for atleast another full year. Unfortunately that is likely to end when android N comes next fall.
Interesting that this phone has everything you ever wanted. Did you know you wanted a 1440p phone with a fingerprint scanner 2 years ago? Probably not. I'm sure innovation will continue, though maybe slowly. I'd like to see better battery tech.
This is how the technology cycle is. You cant have the same level of developments every year throughout the products/os cycle.
I believe many of the features we see added are already developed. They just hold back so they can have a balance of Big n small changes each year & also market couple of features as exclusives for the latest version.
It is the same with iOs as well. You will not see a lot of big changes. Many of them will be hardware based. As os's get more refined hardware dependency will reduce. Today you can get excellent performance from a mid range android device. Tomorrow it will spread to lower end devices aswell. In principal its a good thing.
Right now the top most focus for any R&D of software or hardware company is battery life. The company that cracks it will play a major role.
CrashTestDroid said:
If the 6P lives up to the hype, the improvements left are physics stuff: battery life, moar camera, lighter/thinner/stronger, waterproof, sapphire display.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? People are still hung up on sapphire? Sapphire is brittle. I want foldable screens. I still believe Nokia's concept of a phone that trifolds and then bends to fit as a watch is the future. No more carrying a giant brick in my pocket.
Spaderess said:
For a Nexus device the support window is 3 years. N5 is 2 years old and just recieved Android 6.0. It will continue to get updates for atleast another full year. Unfortunately that is likely to end when android N comes next fall.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True... I guess for me I mean 2 years of getting a new android version but yeah technically 3 years support I suppose.
warplane95 said:
Well, the LG G3 isnt the best phone... you'll probably like the Nexus 6P a LOT!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A G3 running BlissPop ROM is truly a thing of beauty! It's incredibly compact and lightweight for a 5.5" phone, and it flies without the LG software on it. It has a great camera (a step behind the current best, but I've had very few pictures I wasn't very happy with), and the screen as much better than it's reputation indicates it should be ... mostly, I think, because the default brightness is quite low. And the battery life is quite good ... I end most days with 50% after about 1.5 hours of SOT.
I'm mostly upgrading to the 6P because I usually buy a new phone every 6-9 months, but it's been 14 months and I need a new shiny object to fondle. I'm honestly not expecting it to be a whole lot better than the G3 for me ... better screen, better speakers (I hope) and a fingerprint reader may or may not be enough to compensate for the substantial increase in bulk. I had a Note 5 for a week, and it just didn't feel like much of an improvement so I sent it back, which I have never done before.
And my G3 has a replaceable battery, and I could probably be happy with it for 5 more years, if I wasn't such a gadget whore.
Of course I certainly don't think an iPhone is the answer .... that's just ridiculous!
Whoops double post
Here's an idea...try to find a friend with an iPhone who would be willing to trade with you for a week or something. Wipe the phones, trade your SIMs and see how the other side lives.
Sent from my LG-V410 using Tapatalk
Though it had it's issues, the Nexus 6 strong enough in all the categories that I stuck with it for a full year. The only thing strong enough to pull me away now is the 6P. I fully expect it to keep me locked in for the next year as well. However, it could be good enough that I don't feel the need to upgrade to next year's nexus. Only time will tell.
Hello,
I'm thinking of buying a small phone, since I find it uncomfortable those that exceed 5 inches.
I was watching and analyzing those who have good battery, camera and features and I think the best that there are currently on the market are these 2: the Iphone SE and the Sony X Compact.
I'm not going to use it for games of any kind. What I most look for is that it has good battery life, a good rear camera (selfies do not bag) and, if possible, you can hear well with the headphones on.
Obvious that it is 2 different operating systems and, leaving aside that, since I like to use IOS or Android, from their own experience, comments or whatever: with which would they stay?
From now, thank you for you help!!
salocin82 said:
Hello,
I'm thinking of buying a small phone, since I find it uncomfortable those that exceed 5 inches.
I was watching and analyzing those who have good battery, camera and features and I think the best that there are currently on the market are these 2: the Iphone SE and the Sony X Compact.
I'm not going to use it for games of any kind. What I most look for is that it has good battery life, a good rear camera (selfies do not bag) and, if possible, you can hear well with the headphones on.
Obvious that it is 2 different operating systems and, leaving aside that, since I like to use IOS or Android, from their own experience, comments or whatever: with which would they stay?
From now, thank you for you help!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't ever owned an SE so I can't really comment on it vs the compact. However I do know that the compact has more picture storage potential due to the SD Card slot (SE doesn't have one). The SE uses a 12 megapixel shooter vs the Compact using a 23. I am note a huge taking pictures kinda guy so no complaints from me on the camera but I guess that's not saying much. Anyway below is a link to a video comparing the two. It's a little outdated as it has the compact running marshmallow (it has Nougat now) but does a decent job of comparing the two. https://youtu.be/U5g7LTCJqaY
Sony. Water resistance, SDcard. That's about it lol.
The SE may perform smoother as it is powered by the 6S internals.
Sent from my SM-G930T using XDA-Developers Legacy app
If you're not bothered about customizing then buy an iPhone, if you want customization then buy any Android.
iphone fails
- missing notification led
- no customizing and no jailbreak in sight, closed source system
- no slight to unlock (stupid doubble press home button to unlock since apple removed slide to unlock)
- less ram, no sd card, memory not expandable
- 1600 mAh vs 2700 mAh and no quick charge
- smaller display hurts your eyes,
- ligning connector incompatible (how many cables do we need ?)
- easy scratches on alu frame,
- banana bending,
- design from 2012
- steve jobs is dead
etc
-
How is the dev community for this phone though?
There doesn't seem to be any official Lineago OS builds and only one AOSP ROM ...
I would buy this phone in a heartbeat with Lineage OS support but without it seems like one would be dependent on one single developer for ROMs on this phone.
andTab said:
How is the dev community for this phone though?
There doesn't seem to be any official Lineago OS builds and only one AOSP ROM ...
I would buy this phone in a heartbeat with Lineage OS support but without it seems like one would be dependent on one single developer for ROMs on this phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are welcome to join the dev community and help to bring LineageOS to this device. Otherwise buy yourself a Nexus...
ondrejvaroscak said:
You are welcome to join the dev community and help to bring LineageOS to this device. Otherwise buy yourself a Nexus...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nexus phones have ****ty hardware, so no thank you. Then I will get an iPhone.
Don't need a phone with a manufacturing defect that has thousands of phones failing and Google telling you that you are sadly 21 days out of warranty.
Problem solved
I have owned both of them and I found the iPhone SE to be the absolute perfect size for 1 hand use. The X Compact is good but there are still times where the opposite corner can be hard to reach. The SE also feels great in hand and is built with high quality materials. I inevitably returned mine and got a X Compact instead. They are both great phones and if OS doesn't matter to you, I would go with the SE, but I personally prefer Android and it's customization so I returned it.
switcher said:
iphone fails
- less ram, no sd card, memory not expandable-
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well you're comparing two different Systems, iOS doesn't require as much RAM as Android.
Aviad1928 said:
Well you're comparing two different Systems, iOS doesn't require as much RAM as Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
maybe in the old days, but have you seen IOS 10.3 on the SE today ? Compared to the SE the XC performs much better
and the iphone 7+ is shipped with 3gb for a good reason
switcher said:
maybe in the old days, but have you seen IOS 10.3 on the SE today ? Compared to the SE the XC performs much better
and the iphone 7+ is shipped with 3gb for a good reason
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haha honestly I haven't seen an iPhone since 2012, maybe you're right
I own both, they both have positives and negatives. I actively swap between the two because of that! The iPhone is smooth and beautiful, great quality hardware, but iOS feels much more restricted and the screen is very small (even for a small phone fan like myself). Camera is awesome; super quality and quick in all conditions, although selfie camera is only 1.2mp. Not that big a deal though since the pics still look good. X compact on the other hand has a much more vibrant screen which is bigger (but not too big!), very snappy and excellent performance compared to other androids, the system is overall much more customizable, great camera too with wider lens and better selfies. But overall the phone feels cheaper in hand (plastic body), and like all android phones it doesn't have the super polished behaviour, look and feel of apple. As I said, positives and negatives for both! For me I use Google Apps for everything, which is more restricted on iphone obviously, and I like being able to read news clearly on my commute on the larger brighter screen, so I use the x compact more. But sometimes I go back to the iPhone se just because of the smooth shiny experience
Hello, I really wanted a powerful and fast phone with clean interface, so I bought an iPhone 7 as the first non-Android phone in 7 years, so I'm very experienced with Android. I just wasn't impressed with with the Pixel for it's price. I also have a SE. I need some functionality in Android that's missing on the 7 and looking for a companion small phone that I can alternate with if needed, so I'm looking to get rid of my SE to fund for the Compact.
What I do learn from using iOS is that it's more primitive than I thought, despite the clean smooth experience. Somethings are just a joke on it I don't know how they get away with it when millions people are paying for it. But it has it's benefits as well, I do enjoy the A10 chip performance and not spending many hours to setup my phone. And some things just work better, like the Fine my iPhone. On the Honor 8, I could just bypass that lost phone screen . I see too many bugs on Android with skinned devices, and giant devices, which made me really tired of dealing with them. The Pixel just doesn't do it for me in term of pricing, all the issues I'm hearing about, the availability. I would say the Android market abandoned me, not the other way around, and this pushed me to iPhone.
My last Sony phone was the Xperia Play. I'm hoping the current Sony's OS is not too far away from stock Android.
I bought the X Compact for my wife as a Christmas gift - the other phone I was looking at was the iPhone SE.
After she tried out a loaner iPhone for about three weeks she decided she preferred Android, chiefly due to more free apps being available/costing less than the iOS version.
From everything I gathered from the numerous reviews, it essentially comes down to which platform you prefer. The iPhone SE has a slightly better camera in low light (night), but that looked like the only hardware advantage. If you go with the x-compact, try to wait until B&H photo has it on sale for $270. It's done that 3 times in the last five months.
switcher said:
iphone fails
- no customizing and no jailbreak in sight, closed source system
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I was also seriously considering the SE, but that is the big reason I got the X compact. The Sony open devices program is a major plus for me. I look forward to actually owning my own device and have freedom of messing around with it, maybe even trying out Jolla's SailfishOS when it's available.
The only thing that concerns me about Android is there seems to be vulnerabilities exposed on the net or viruses (adware that calls back to someone's server in the background and monitors SMS messages) through legitimate apps.. seems there's a security flaw announced once a week. How is development for security patches on it, given the frequency of malware?
Not sure about ios but I kinda like having open source android., So long as devs are on top of things and not just adding feature fluff.
volcolm said:
The only thing that concerns me about Android is there seems to be vulnerabilities exposed on the net or viruses (adware that calls back to someone's server in the background and monitors SMS messages) through legitimate apps.. seems there's a security flaw announced once a week. How is development for security patches on it, given the frequency of malware?
Not sure about ios but I kinda like having open source android., So long as devs are on top of things and not just adding feature fluff.
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Android now have built in permission management so you can deny that app from accessing your personal info. It would be nice to have a built in feature to block internet access outright, but generally only MIUI based roms have that. I don't see it as an issue aside from people who download dubious apps or sideloading from questionable sources.
If you are that concerned you should get a phone that is promised monthly security updates, which is a Google Pixel. https://source.android.com/security/bulletin/ I was surprised the X Compact (international version) have timely monthly security updates.
I would say the closed source nature of iOS potentially makes it more insecure, with open source at least you have much more developers looking at it and alerting the issues.
eksasol said:
Android now have built in permission management so you can deny that app from accessing your personal info. It would be nice to have a built in feature to block internet access outright, but generally only MIUI based roms have that. I don't see it as an issue aside from people who download dubious apps or sideloading from questionable sources.
If you are that concerned you should get a phone that is promised monthly security updates, which is a Google Pixel. https://source.android.com/security/bulletin/ I was surprised the X Compact (international version) have timely monthly security updates.
I would say the closed source nature of iOS potentially makes it more insecure, with open source at least you have much more developers looking at it and alerting the issues.
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It'd have been easier to state that the XC already gets monthly (security) updates as the GP, but I digress. This is good, probably better than most manufacturers in that regard. My last phone was a buy once, throwaway after a couple months because Huawei decides "Want latest Android, your phone is obsolete -- buy a new Mate instead". Before folks say "Wait, they update their Mate line now!" - watch a "beta" ROM come online from Huawei after a year of not releasing any updates for months (once new phones are around the corner), the poof, scrapped ROM/patch (and now your phone is obsolete/vulnerable) because hey go buy new shiny phone to get the latest "update". It's infuriating, a phone should be "supported" for at least 3 years. Usually the good XDA developers make a phone last much longer than that!
I wrote this on someone's YouTube video on problems that are coming on pixl3, xl.
I'm really considering canceling my order of the XL.
From what I've seen and read so far on pixel 3, it's scary. This is coming from note7 user who kept the phone for years. I love note 9 but I don't want it, or any other Sammy, or lg or another phone. I want Google, seams like a perfect fit, and something new. I've been with Samsung for a long time. Apple is way too expensive and after these pixel issues I'd love to own XS but I'm just not an ios guy.
These Google problems are scary because I did place an order of $1275 cnd. I was ok with notch and 4gb ram but now seeing all this crap, do I really want to deal with all that? I feel Ike google did not give a sh.. One of those students instead of studying for an exam they just said fcuk it, I'll go with what I know...
Sucks, truly sucks. I wanted the phone so bad.
Anyone else in the same boat? Thinking of canceling or worried about buying an expensive phone and then regretting it.
Own31 said:
I wrote this on someone's YouTube video on problems that are coming on pixl3, xl.
I'm really considering canceling my order of the XL.
From what I've seen and read so far on pixel 3, it's scary. This is coming from note7 user who kept the phone for years. I love note 9 but I don't want it, or any other Sammy, or lg or another phone. I want Google, seams like a perfect fit, and something new. I've been with Samsung for a long time. Apple is way too expensive and after these pixel issues I'd love to own XS but I'm just not an ios guy.
These Google problems are scary because I did place an order of $1275 cnd. I was ok with notch and 4gb ram but now seeing all this crap, do I really want to deal with all that? I feel Ike google did not give a sh.. One of those students instead of studying for an exam they just said fcuk it, I'll go with what I know...
Sucks, truly sucks. I wanted the phone so bad.
Anyone else in the same boat? Thinking of canceling or worried about buying an expensive phone and then regretting it.
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I was a bit worried about regretting it after spending a lot. Considered cancelling my order a few times. Went with the Pixel 3 after 3 years of a Nexus 5X. I know this isn't the experience everyone has had but I love it. I haven't had any of the issues people have been talking about or noticed any kind of lag or hiccup yet. I honestly think that in a few months all the negative comments and concerns will blow over and it will be regarded as one of the best phones available but maybe I'm wrong.
Own31 said:
I wrote this on someone's YouTube video on problems that are coming on pixl3, xl.
I'm really considering canceling my order of the XL.
From what I've seen and read so far on pixel 3, it's scary. This is coming from note7 user who kept the phone for years. I love note 9 but I don't want it, or any other Sammy, or lg or another phone. I want Google, seams like a perfect fit, and something new. I've been with Samsung for a long time. Apple is way too expensive and after these pixel issues I'd love to own XS but I'm just not an ios guy.
These Google problems are scary because I did place an order of $1275 cnd. I was ok with notch and 4gb ram but now seeing all this crap, do I really want to deal with all that? I feel Ike google did not give a sh.. One of those students instead of studying for an exam they just said fcuk it, I'll go with what I know...
Sucks, truly sucks. I wanted the phone so bad.
Anyone else in the same boat? Thinking of canceling or worried about buying an expensive phone and then regretting it.
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You're brought up two issues:
1. If you're wanting to know if you'll be happy using a Pixel after using Samsung for so long, the answer depends on how much you value all the extra software features that are built into Samsung devices. If you love them and use them all the time, the Pixel will disappoint because it is bare bones Android. If you don't care about those features and just want a simple UI with fast updates, then you'll love the Pixel.
2. If you're wanting to know if these early "issues" are deal breakers, then it really comes down to hardware vs software. If the issues you are concerned about are hardware related, then there's nothing that can be done and you would be better served by a different device. If the issues you are concerned about are software related, then buy the phone with confidence. You may never see these issues because they don't affect everyone, and if you do, they will likely be fixed in the updates that Google pushes every month. So you won't even have to wait long.
Either way, life is too short to regret a phone purchase.
Thank you both for your input. Make me feel better.
My biggest and I mean the biggest concern with any phone is phone lag.
Pixel fits my bill.
I love s8 s9, etc but I'm okay with not having the best display, curve screen, no notch. I'm even okay rocking p3Xl even when if baseless s10 with In display finger print and camera comes out. I'll be okay. Because smooth experience is above it all. Ofc I'm basing my desision on p3, with wireless charging, water proving etc.. Stuff which phone already has. Took Google apple a while but they got there.
It's hard to pay $1275 for a phone and hear speakers sound different, speakers make vibration, lines on display but could be replacement, worranty work etc.
More importantly is software.
Apps getting shut down, glitches, ram management fiasco.
I started to think, well if p3 xl shuts down all apps to save ram and I find a way around it to keep apps running in the background and that will cause the phone to glitch or think more than that really takes me away from smooth Android experience. Ofc apps automatically closing and me have to restart Netflix or YouTube isn't a smooth experience either.
I don't care bout battery life, or memory space. I also don't play games. I'm worried bout basic options of use now being compromised.
May be I'm paranoid...
Own31 said:
I started to think, well if p3 xl shuts down all apps to save ram
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P3 is killing apps because Google sloppy optimization /buggy software not because of lack of RAM. P1 and P2 don't have these issues and all have 4GB.
The strongest recommendation I can think of is wait until Google gets it together. Google has a dubtious track of fixing bugs even on Pixel.
Yea, even I'm having thoughts of regretting to pre-order Pixel 3 64GB Clearly White, haven't received it yet tho. Indian users will get it after Oct 31st(official release date).
My concerns are that will it be worth it to spend Rs. 66k (approx 900 USD) for a phone when I can get OnePlus 6T for around Rs. 38k-40k (approx 530 USD) with better specs like 8GB RAM and 3700 mAh battery. Though I really like the way Pixel looks and it's software is also great with AI. And the camera is the best part.
BTW I'm jumping from a 5yr old Moto G to this so any new phone would feel great to me. Currently I get the option to cancel my Pixel 3 order. So I'll wait and see the 6T, then decide to cancel the order or not.
OkayGK said:
Thank you both for your input. Make me feel better.
My biggest and I mean the biggest concern with any phone is phone lag.
Pixel fits my bill.
I love s8 s9, etc but I'm okay with not having the best display, curve screen, no notch. I'm even okay rocking p3Xl even when if baseless s10 with In display finger print and camera comes out. I'll be okay. Because smooth experience is above it all. Ofc I'm basing my desision on p3, with wireless charging, water proving etc.. Stuff which phone already has. Took Google apple a while but they got there.
It's hard to pay $1275 for a phone and hear speakers sound different, speakers make vibration, lines on display but could be replacement, worranty work etc.
More importantly is software.
Apps getting shut down, glitches, ram management fiasco.
I started to think, well if p3 xl shuts down all apps to save ram and I find a way around it to keep apps running in the background and that will cause the phone to glitch or think more than that really takes me away from smooth Android experience. Ofc apps automatically closing and me have to restart Netflix or YouTube isn't a smooth experience either.
I don't care bout battery life, or memory space. I also don't play games. I'm worried bout basic options of use now being compromised.
May be I'm paranoid...
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This is the pixel 3 forum for the smaller version. If you want feedback about the 3XL, please check the 3XL forum.
I did not realize there were two separate forums for the phone.
I canceled. It's still the phone I want, but approaching the end of 2018 this is not an $800 phone. It'll probably be priced correctly come Thanksgiving.
Been using mine since the 18th. I too, was a bit worried, however I've not experienced any of the issues.. I'm surprised really.
After using the P1 & P2, I know that they'll squash these issues in coming updates, by December's update all of these little bugs will probably be worked out. Just like with the P2.
I'm sticking with it. I love it. I didn't think it would be a big upgrade over the P2, but it really is IMO.
-Michael_ said:
Been using mine since the 18th. I too, was a bit worried, however I've not experienced any of the issues.. I'm surprised really.
After using the P1 & P2, I know that they'll squash these issues in coming updates, by December's update all of these little bugs will probably be worked out. Just like with the P2.
I'm sticking with it. I love it. I didn't think it would be a big upgrade over the P2, but it really is IMO.
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Great to hear. So far I haven't cancelled
Just another data point - I got the Pixel 3, came over from Samsung and LG phones (S7 and V30), and I'm happier with this phone than any phone I've previously owned (maybe a bit of hyperbole, but I am very impressed with the phone!). I haven't had any of the problems others have mentioned, and the UI and smoothness of operation are wonderful. I've only snapped a handful of photos so far, but the results are amazing to me. Battery life hasn't been as great as the V30, but it still gets me through a full day and evening, so I'm cool with that.
I was constantly frustrated with waiting for Samsung or LG to release updates, so I'm eager to see how rapidly Google iterates.
I definitely wouldn't cancel.
I've had mine for a week, been back and forth a dozen times a day, got an rma, packed it up, unpacked, packed, unpacked, used for the weekend. Right this minute I'm thinking it goes back tomorrow, but the camera is almost worth keeping it.
My biggest thought is that any camera would blow me away coming from a oneplus 3, and the camera on the 6t might be plenty good enough.
The $50 pre-order credit helps, and it sounds like the 6t won't have wireless charging. My op3 port is almost worn out, have to hold it just right, so I'm wary of another phone without wireless.
I have a camping trip with my daughter in a couple weeks, so if I return, I'm not getting anything new in time for that,with the back orders on the pixel and the shipping time on the 6t, unless tmo has them on the shelf within a week of launch.
So now I'm thinking I'll keep it.
Another positive review for the Pixel 3. Coming from the Samsung S7, the Pixel is a big step up. Really like the minimalist, elegant look, smaller bezels, lightning responsiveness, feel in the hand, unbloated Android, great camera, first in line for updates, and Project Fi. I've had a couple of quirks with some features, but none of the issues getting so much attention. Battery life has significantly improved over the last week (adaptive power management?), and is much better than the S7 even with AOD and bluetooth on all the time. Easily the best phone I've owned by a wide margin. Understand people have different priorities and usage patterns, but I'd advise not bailing without trying it.
I have always had Sony Phones.
The last few phones have been Huawei but since they lost Google services I switched to Honor Magic 4 pro, a big mistake on my part. Several big bugs make the phone useless, primarily the phone rings but the answer key doesn't show, at times can't be heard by other party.
Main question is this worth considering as a flagship device, I know 1 1V is out but can't find at reasonable price.
As long as it gets good SOT it looks pretty good. Great audio, solid cams, expandable storage and 12gb of ram. I take this over the S23U any day.
The display/bezel ratio could be better. I'm still hooked on the Note 10+ but transitioning to One UI and other Samsung eccentricities probably be a real learning curve for you.
Sony may be my choice years from now though. Samsung has been shooting blanks since the N10+... in my opinion.
Well, I honestly can't see a reason not to use as a flagship device but first make sure it was released in you're area. As having VOLTE and WIFI calling is a pretty big deal breaker for a lot of people now days. Personally my 1III has been going strong. My partner has my old 1II and it's still going strong too.
I don't understand these kinds of questions.
I buy a phone because of the specifications it offers.
I bought it because it had a side fingerprint scanner, no notch, wireless charging, a jack, OLED, >=120Hz and a premium SoC.
You won't find that combination in any other phone, so it had to be this one or compromises had to be made.
I couldn't be arsed about picture quality or cameras in general, whether it was a Sony device and if the screen had this stupidly high resolution which just drains your battery faster. Or VoLTE or Wifi calling since that's been mentioned as well.
I'd just do the same. Look at the requirements you have, see if this phone satisfies your needs and ensure that the price is what you're willing to pay for (and reasonable market price!).
UsernameNotRecognized said:
I don't understand these kinds of questions.
I buy a phone because of the specifications it offers.
I bought it because it had a side fingerprint scanner, no notch, wireless charging, a jack and a premium SoC.
You won't find that combination in any other phone, so it had to be this one or compromises had to be made.
I'd just do the same. Look at the requirements you have, see if this phone satisfies your needs and ensure that the price is what you're willing to pay for (and reasonable market price!).
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Think Sony's UI needs some work but the hardware's all there. It also has expandable storage and that's a huge plus... a 1+tb dual drive power house is what's it's all about. Cloud sucks.
12gb of ram means it should be a running machine for years.
blackhawk said:
Think Sony's UI needs some work but the hardware's all there. It also has expandable storage and that's a huge plus... a 1+tb dual drive power house is what's it's all about. Cloud sucks.
12gb of ram means it should be a running machine for years.
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Needs more work as in? Afaik it's about as close to stock as it gets with some very minor saucing primarily in added stuff (apps) and changes images/sounds. If they change this too much you're going to get people complaining about Sony trying too hard to be different.
I think they strike a good balance but should add some minor ricing options.
I'm more pissed off about a flagship phone having so much bloatware. Samsung is very upfront about this because the design is so different, but Sony was a not-so-nice suprise.
UsernameNotRecognized said:
Needs more work as in? Afaik it's about as close to stock as it gets with some very minor saucing primarily in added stuff (apps) and changes images/sounds. If they change this too much you're going to get people complaining about Sony trying too hard to be different.
I think they strike a good balance but should add some minor ricing options.
I'm more pissed off about a flagship phone having so much bloatware. Samsung is very upfront about this because the design is so different, but Sony was a not-so-nice suprise.
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Samsung customization is great. A stock Android is well... a plain Jane. Samsung unfortunately has gone off the rails though sharing Google's lame vision of what everyone must use. Like a big sister they insist. Both forget who pays their bills... or use to.
I simple use Package Disabler to kill the bloatware I don't want. Joke em if they can't take a f...
What do you value? I value roughly in order:
SD Cad slot
Headphone jack
good performance, I don't need great
Rootable
AMOLED screen with 400DPI or more
Battery life
Good camera
This phone is one of very few that has all of that, even more so than the 1 IV which is harder to root from what I gathered, I was looking at the 5 III whcih actually fits my needs more due to having a worse but still amazing screen and thus better battery life, but managed to get a really good deal on the 1 on ebay. So are your values like mine? If yes then it is definitely worth it, I am very satisfied. Do you not care about the card slot or headphone jack? Then probably not.