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Hey,
Just thinking, anyone please correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know both the tablet and the dock have a Lithium-ion battery
From my knowledge, to keep lithium ion batteries in the best state you have to keep them between 20% and 80%, and not under/over charge them. The dock kinda seems to contradict this, because its constantly overcharging the tablet. This is extremely bad for the battery and greatly reduces the life span and capacity. Think of it as a laptop that you have in the socket 24/7, if you do this for half a year, the battery wont last for more then 30 mins. This, in a way, is resulting in the same problem.
Maybe this has been discussed before, but I couldn't find it, but isn't this a major design flaw? The dock should have some on/off charge switch.
It's not that simple. The Transformer, like every cell phone, laptop, and tablet using LiIon cells uses a charge controller chip that monitors charging current, pack voltage, pack temperature, discharge rate, and charge history to optimally control the power being fed to the battery from the charging input. The charge controller has a programmed hysteresis that keeps the battery from constantly charging (trickle charge) once it reaches its max capacity. Without a charge controller, the pack would eventually overheat and catch fire.
It is true that fully charged LiIon batteries will degrade in capacity over months to years. It's more damaging to the battery though to run it through a complete cycle (completely discharge). The best thing you can do for your battery without shelving the TF is to charge it every night to keep from unnecessarily running the battery down the next day.
In short, the Transformer can look after itself.
Also, this.
Thanks for your reply.
I might have used the wrong wording, I understand they have charge controllers to prevent the batteries from overcharging and exploding or catching fire. What I ment by overcharging was, charging it while the battery is already full, and undercharging - not charging it enough by letting it go into a deep discharge too often.
As stated in your link, "partial-discharge cycles can greatly increase cycle life, and charging to less than 100% capacity can increase battery life even further"
The dock keeps pushing it to 100%, and keeps it at 100% - reducing its battery life. Also, because you can not disable the dock charge, assuming you are constantly want to use the keyboard which I do, it will go into a deep discharge, also reducing the battery life of the dock. As often said, the best state for LiIon batteries is between 40% and 80%, this is hard to archive for both the dock and tablet due to it constant charging the tablet to full.
In order to preserve the best battery life, you must un-dock the tablet around 90% - and charge the dock whenever it reaches below 40% or so. Meeting both these requirements, while wanting to use the dock constantly seems like a burden. Not doing this, will rapidly decrease the capacity from my understanding.
Please correct me if I'm wrong though.
I don't see why people worry so much about this. It takes a few years for there to be any noticeable loss in battery life on lithium ion batteries, and even longer for it to become a significant burden.
It took me five years of daily usage of my old Toshiba laptop to wear down the battery to about half its original capacity, and it's still usable with only 2.5 hours of battery life. If we assume similar rules would apply to the Transformer, after 4-5 years you could still achieve a maximum of 8 hours on a single charge. If anything, by that time you'd be more concerned about how sluggish the device feels when compared to the newest tech, especially when browsing the web.
There seems to be a debate on this topic as to whether you should do a FULL drain on your battery and I wanted to know what people's thoughts were on this in this forum.
I've used my phone twice now to the point where it has auto powered down on it's own. I will then hit the 'Power' button to ensure that battery is truly at 0% (the capacitative buttons blink for a second to confirm that I've hit the power button but there is no more juice left to turn the phone on).
I will plug into the wall charger and allow it to charge for 4 hours (usually around 4 hours, I'll check back to see and hit the power button and the onscreen battery display will show 100% charged).
I will unplug my phone, power on and keep using until the phone fully drains and powers off on it's own again before repeating this cycle.
However, others have stated that this is NOT necessary for Lithium Ion battery and can actually damage the circuitry of the battery? I've always been under the impression that you need to do a complete & full battery drain for lithium ion batteries at least 3 -5 full cycles/times before the battery has been conditioned/optimized for capacity.
Maybe I'm wrong...after all I'm coming from a G1 and this practice helped my atrocious battery life on that dinosaur!
If this is wrong, when should I be plugging my phone back in to charge? When it gives me the first warning to charge in (battery level turns orange - I assume this about 20% battery left) or on the "critical" battery warning when the battery icon in the notification panel turns red (assuming this is about 10% battery left)?
from what I've read in the past, letting your phone drain completely down until it shuts itself off is not good for the battery. I could be wrong but thats what I've read
nyydynasty said:
from what I've read in the past, letting your phone drain completely down until it shuts itself off is not good for the battery. I could be wrong but thats what I've read
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Click to collapse
Yeah, I've heard both sides and I've conditioned my battery for the G1 because it seemed to drain faster if I plugged it into charge when there was 30% or so still left.
Well, I've done two complete cycles so I guess I'll just try recharging when it hits the red mark next time.
When you plug in to charge? Orange, red or whenever to top off?
i plug my phone in when i go to bed. I dont care what the battery is at. I also charge it while i'm at work so when I leave, its around 90-100%. My battery rarely reaches red.
nyydynasty said:
i plug my phone in when i go to bed. I dont care what the battery is at. I also charge it while i'm at work so when I leave, its around 90-100%. My battery rarely reaches red.
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LOL - that would prematurely killed my battery capacity on the G1! I went thru two batteries before I started draining all the way down. Made a difference between 4-6 hours and 6-10 hours.
Seems like this phone doesn't need to do that tho.
But what're you getting on average for battery life and display on time then?
nyydynasty said:
i plug my phone in when i go to bed. I dont care what the battery is at. I also charge it while i'm at work so when I leave, its around 90-100%. My battery rarely reaches red.
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Click to collapse
I do the exact same thing. First with my Captivate and now with the SGS2 and the battery life on my captivate held pretty much exactly the same charge for the entire 15 months I used it. The battery on this SGS2 seems to last about 150-175% of the Captivate battery under the same conditions. I just came back from a week on the road where I spent 9-12 hours a day away from a charger and was using my phone constantly all day long and would get back to the hotel room with 30-40% battery left. Considering I was listening to music, playing plants vs zombies and sending and reading push email constantly throughout the day I am very satisfied with the battery life on this phone. I've never done any kind of conditioning or special battery maintenance.
DefTaker said:
LOL - that would prematurely killed my battery capacity on the G1! I went thru two batteries before I started draining all the way down. Made a difference between 4-6 hours and 6-10 hours.
Seems like this phone doesn't need to do that tho.
But what're you getting on average for battery life and display on time then?
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Click to collapse
i stopped looking at my battery stats a long time ago. I'll peak in there once in a while but I dont really care what the stats show because I'm always around a charger. As long as I get through 12 hours or so without charging, i'm happy.
Some devices need a full drain cycle to properly calibrate the fuel gauge - ours does NOT.
Lithium ion batteries don't like deep discharging - in fact discharging them too much will permanently damage them (fortunately, all batteries sold to end users have built-in protection chips to prevent overdischarge - but do you REALLY want to rely on that chip?)
Similarly, they don't like charge being forced into them - so don't "bump charge". (Bump charging is removing and immediately reinserting the charger when the phone says charging is complete.)
For long-term storage, store them at around 50% capacity if not being used. LiIons that are stored at 100% charge lose capacity MUCH faster than ones stored at 50%.
A Li-Ion that has been sitting for a long time (months...) will develop a passivation layer that can be detrimental to performance - a few charge/discharge cycles will fix this. You don't need to do a full discharge/recharge - probably even from 90 to 70 and back up a few times should be fine.
Entropy512 said:
Some devices need a full drain cycle to properly calibrate the fuel gauge - ours does NOT.
Lithium ion batteries don't like deep discharging - in fact discharging them too much will permanently damage them (fortunately, all batteries sold to end users have built-in protection chips to prevent overdischarge - but do you REALLY want to rely on that chip?)
Similarly, they don't like charge being forced into them - so don't "bump charge". (Bump charging is removing and immediately reinserting the charger when the phone says charging is complete.)
For long-term storage, store them at around 50% capacity if not being used. LiIons that are stored at 100% charge lose capacity MUCH faster than ones stored at 50%.
A Li-Ion that has been sitting for a long time (months...) will develop a passivation layer that can be detrimental to performance - a few charge/discharge cycles will fix this. You don't need to do a full discharge/recharge - probably even from 90 to 70 and back up a few times should be fine.
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Click to collapse
what about short charging during the course of the day? For instance, while I'm at work, I like to plug it in for a bit and then use it off the charger. Then before I leave, I charge it again for a bit. Do you think thats okay to charge the phone for short ~1 hour bursts?
No, the battery itself doesn't do well with deep discharges, but every device with one has circuitry to manage this and keep it from happening. The phone will shut off before the battery reaches a critically low discharge state. Just as it will cease charging before it blows up. Just because the phone shuts off does not mean that the battery is too low.
Assuming the phone has the proper cutoffs, it's not really any different to do two discharges to 50% or one to 100%. There have been studies that say leaving it on a charger is bad, doing two 50% cycles is worse than one 100%, etc. I've always just trusted that the phone manufacturers design the battery monitor and control circuits correctly and not worry much about it. And I've never had to replace a battery yet and always get acceptable life.
It's lithium ion, not nickel cadmium.
Full drains are bad for lithium ion.
Sent from my SGS II
nyydynasty said:
what about short charging during the course of the day? For instance, while I'm at work, I like to plug it in for a bit and then use it off the charger. Then before I leave, I charge it again for a bit. Do you think thats okay to charge the phone for short ~1 hour bursts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the best way to charge it.
Sent from my SGS II
MikeyMike01 said:
That's the best way to charge it.
Sent from my SGS II
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Click to collapse
that makes me even more glad that its what I've been doing forever - lol
thanks
lithium ion batteries dont like being under 30%. and they also dont do well if they are kept at 80 percent or above all the time. for longest battery life don't just let it sit on the charger all day after it fully charges.
I agree with Mikey here.
Also, batteries take charging current better (less wear) at lower states of charge. That's why I put a variable-current charging algorithm into my Infuse kernels (charginghacks branch on github)
800 mA at low voltages (200 above stock), dropping to 550 near the end (50 below stock).
Unfortunately, charginghacks is likely not going to be possible with our hardware. One of the differences between the I9100 and I777 is a different battery charger circuit - ours is far less flexible.
Entropy512 said:
I agree with Mikey here.
Also, batteries take charging current better (less wear) at lower states of charge. That's why I put a variable-current charging algorithm into my Infuse kernels (charginghacks branch on github)
800 mA at low voltages (200 above stock), dropping to 550 near the end (50 below stock).
Unfortunately, charginghacks is likely not going to be possible with our hardware. One of the differences between the I9100 and I777 is a different battery charger circuit - ours is far less flexible.
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Click to collapse
This phone actually charges with the screen on though, so it's not like the Infuse where the battery would drain with the screen on and the phone charging.
MikeyMike01 said:
This phone actually charges with the screen on though, so it's not like the Infuse where the battery would drain with the screen on and the phone charging.
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Infuse would charge with the screen on - but not if the screen was on AND the CPU was cranking.
(worst-case was navigation at full brightness - and I've seen reports that the I9100 also has the same problem.)
Entropy512 said:
Infuse would charge with the screen on - but not if the screen was on AND the CPU was cranking.
(worst-case was navigation at full brightness - and I've seen reports that the I9100 also has the same problem.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When web browsing, playing a game, or other general use late at night I'd plug the Infuse into the charger. It would still drain. Doing the same on the SGS II and it at the very least maintains it's battery level, so it's a drastic improvement over the Infuse.
To get the best battery life, when should I charge my phone? When the phone almost runs out of juice, or whenever I can (below 80%) ? Please help!
Deep discharges are bad, but so is spending lots of time at maximum charge.
I'd consider charging around when you hit 80% if it's convenient, but if you're expecting to be on battery for a while soon, top off whenever you want.
Discharging to 5-15% is bad for your battery longterm.
So to get the best battery, I should charge when it is $80 right?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using XDA App
kvl19 said:
So to get the best battery, I should charge when it is $80 right?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's no hard fast rule about 'exactly' when you should recharge it. Simply try and keep the phone from running < 20% a lot and never keep it always charged at 100%. If you get in the habit of charging in the 30-80% range, that would be best.
Basically throw out the old mentality of always using it as much as possible before recharging as lithium batteries simply don't work like the old nicad batteries from years past.
This phone uses a Li-Ion battery, and these batteries do NOT have any kind of "memory." Charge it whenever you want to. However, it's not really good to always keep it "topped off." (Deep discharges are also not good.)
If you are going to store the battery, drop it to 75%-50% charged first.
There are some things to consider, however:
If the phone's power circuit bypasses the battery when the battery is fully charge (instead of constantly pulling power from the battery while the battery is recharging), then leaving the phone plugged in is better than constant charge/discharge cycles. Based on the fact that this phone will work properly with NO battery attached when plugged in, this is probably a true statement (but I can't know for sure.)
Second, the phone itself might like to see the battery charged/discharged once in a while to calibrate the battery monitoring circuitry. (You never calibrate a li-ion battery - only the circuitry that monitors the battery.)
Here's a link with some interesting information:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Take care
Gary
Got it. Thanks for all your information
A small note to add why you shouldn't 'keep' it above 80% (constant top offs and being left on the charger). In general when above 80% it's been found that lithium ion batteries have a 'higher state of activity'.
What that does to the battery is what it sounds like. Higher state of activity means higher wear and overall shorter lifespan.
That wear is easily seen in laptops. Many people have the habit of leaving them always plugged in while using and through the night, so they're always 'ready to go'. People who consistently do this to their laptops usually find after 1 year the battery life is noticeably shorter, 1 1/2 years 50% or so of 'new' capacity, and after 2 years looking at replacing the battery.
And I usually find a cheap deal on eBay for them, plus $50-75 for me. At least phone batteries are a bit cheaper.
Sent from my páhhōniē
I'm running Liquid Smooth 3.2 with Imoseyon Lean 6.2.1 kernel. I also tried to activate the speed tweaks included (?) but it didn't work so I downloaded speed tweaks 7.1 from Imoseyon's website and flashed it.
This is my problem.. I understand that with this kernel USB fast charging works unless the battery temp gets too high, then it shuts off and I assume goes back to standard charging. I've been using the kernel for about six hours and the battery temp has been in the low to mid thirties mostly, so that's great.. But my voltage has gotten up slightly over 4200 a couple of times and that has driven the battery temp up, but not much. I use a battery monitor widget that sounds an alarm if the temp or voltage get outside of my defined ranges.
What I would like to know whether there is a way to keep the voltage in a safer range when the phone is fast charging? I think if the fast charge could be stopped when the voltage is above 4200 or below 3000 like it is when the battery temp gets too high would be a great feature, and it would ease my mind that the voltage won't spike to 4300 or 4400 and blow up while I'm sleeping at night (if I happen to not hear battery monitor alarm).
If that's just the way it is with the voltage spikes, does anyone maybe know of a kernel/rom combo that safely allows fast charging by keeping the battery temp and voltage in recommended ranges or by shutting fast charge off if the temp/voltage suddenly spike while on the charger?
Thanks for reading/considering my question.
I'm not 100% sure but isn't the reason fast changing works is because it bumps up he voltage. Wouldn't lowering it make it not charge as fast.
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
Not sure
I looked at my battery history and I think you're right. The voltage has spiked quickly and then steadily climbed past 4200, but the charge in that time frame is like 60+ percent so it's worth it I guess. Figure I'm hurting the battery, but for now it's worth it. I I may get an iphone 5 if the features are right.
I guess I'll just have to find a toggle so I can leave it on the charger at night and not have to worry about it catching fire. Just out of curiosity, does anyone know about how long a lithium battery can charge above 4200 or below 3000 before it blows up?
Also, this is my first phone with a 4.3 inch screen.. Do all big display phones suffer from terrible battery life? I keep my brightness down to about 20% indoors, but I generally keep 4g on because 3g tends to drop the signal and I play Pokerist a lot at work. Don't like getting kicked off and having to sign back in when I'm all in in a hand. I guess it also could be that the game is taxing the processor and in combination with 4g wrecking my battery life.. Mainly though, and on a custom rom without a fast usb charging feature, I couldn't play and charge at the same time, the phone would just barely stay at the percentage it was at. My last question is, does anyone know of a phone with a large display and 4g that doesn't drain the battery as quickly as Thunderbolt, or that at least charges fairly fast while using phone without having to flash a fast usb charging kernel?
edit: I can't find an app or widget that will allow me to toggle between normal charging and fast usb charging.. Anyone know of one for Thunderbolt?
Most of the new 4G phones with the 4.3 inch screen suffer from batter drain. The razr maxx is the best stock phone for battery right now but the phones just aren't built well. I think the newer phones are getting better so I would wait a little while longer and see what is coming out soon. The battery issue won't be a problem forever and neither will the crappy data drops.
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
The spike in voltage and temperature is a NORMAL behavior of this type of battery and the charging technology it uses. As a Li-on battery discharges, it's voltage drops very little for it's corresponding level of charge (Very useful in small electronics that require excellent power consistency.). As the battery nears fully discharged, the voltage begins to drop sharply as does the resistance of the battery. Shortly after that, the internal temperature rises. You are now damaging your battery to further discharge it. You're phone won't let you do this. Likewise, it won't allow you to overcharge it. A Li-on battery is determined to be fully charged when the voltage output begins to rise sharply over the nominal charge rate. The internal resistance of the battery will rise sharply as well. The you'll notice temperature rise. Depending upon other conditions, a significant rise in cell temperature doesn't necessarily indicate a charged battery. If the resistance and voltage are consistent, the battery isn't fully charged but rather exhibiting the normal rise in temperature as resistance rises. You'd be pretty shocked how hot it really has to get before the phone will simply shut itself off and refuse to power up for half an hour or more to avoid actually damaging the battery due to thermal stress. Think hot, dark stone sitting in the hot sun all day long. And that cut-off, as far as I know, is below what the battery is actually rated for.
You're HTC device uses neither voltage, resistance, nor temperature independently to determine a charged or discharged state. That is calculated through compiled statistics based upon load, voltage output, resistance, and temperature. Li-on is a very well understood technology. The ONLY way to obtain the life and performance from these batteries that they do is to have fairly advanced charging and monitoring technology. It's really pretty hard to destroy a phone or it's battery strictly through heat generated by charging (assuming all parts meet spec.). In fact, it's hard to even if the phone is sitting on a heating vent or under the hot sunlight.
Unless you're device is some brutally overclocked, customized to the gills monster of a device, narrowly switching transistors at ridiculous speeds with precious few electrons to spare, you're pretty hard pressed to damage your battery or your phone. The stuff that manages the battery is beyond what kernels and ROMs do. You can definitely do some meaningful damage to a battery messing with charge characteristics, however catastrophic failure is practically impossible.
Anybody have tips on the subject? I was reading around and read multiple articles on this. Many said do not keep it on the charger after it has reached 100%. This poses a problem, because the G2 will charge from 0-100 in nearly 1 hour and 30 minutes, and i like to keep it on the charger while i sleep. Does the G2 have software to prevent this? It does say to please remove charger to conserve energy when its full.
Any replies are much appreciated
Sent from my LG-D800 using xda app-developers app
Well i read also that you shouldnt charge it to 100% frequently
2. You shouldnt let the battery charge drop under 20 frequently Before recharging
3. You shouldnt let the battery run out of charge frequently because our battery will get damaged if u do that quite often
so beware of this point
And they said it's not best to let the phone charge over night frequently
Sent from my LG-D802 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
I am no expert in this area - but this is what i do and i seem to get great battery life. i just looked, my device has been on battery for 3.5 hours and i'm still at 100% with usage in the following areas...
Google serviced - 29%
Android system - 22%
Screen - 17%
this is with wifi on, approx 5 min worth of voice calling, and several text messages, couple min of facebook and G+. i am not rooted, running stock launcher with most recent tmobile software update (unlocked and using it on Bell).
I hard reset my device once a month (minimum) - not sure if this does anything, but i am a little OCD when it come to my devices.
Before hard reset...
1. charge device to 100%
2. keep device plugged in for ~15 min after fully charged. The unplug.
3. hard reset device
4. once booted, plug device in a proceed to setup and install programs
5. unplug device once complete
During the day...
I always keep it charged up...i dont usually let it get below 75% (if possible). I'm always around a charger/plug at my work.
During the night...
1. charge device to 100% before going to bed
2. before you go to sleep, unplug device and put it in airplane mode
3. when you get up - turn off airplane mode and plug in for ~15 min or so
Again - im no expert, but this is working for me so imma stick to it!
It is not recommended to keep your phone plugged in after it has reached 100%. Only do it when you need an extra battery boost for the day (and that's hopefully not every day).
The general rule is to charge it from 40%-80% and that partial charges are better than full charges.
I really wish people would stop with the "don't keep it on the charger" nonsense which then makes people think they need to micromanage the charge cycle.
Charge early and often. Don't intentionally drain it down to some low percent, just charge nightly and you should be fine. If you're heavily using the phone, try to avoid dropping below 30%. Heavier discharges cause faster ageing.
And avoid keeping it in a hot environment, north of 30C. If it's your car GPS, keep a vent blowing cool air on it, especially in the summer. During the winter make sure a vent isn't blowing hot air on it.
Heat is probably the primary variable in battery life, followed by heavy discharge cycles.
Do whatever you want regarding keeping it charging after it's full. But disagreeing doesn't make your statement correct. I do agree with your statements about heat, however.
Sent from my LG-D802 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
just charge the thing and use it, I have a Samsung Galaxy S2 2-3 years ago the battery still going strong, most of you dont even own a phone past a year.
I usually make my phone go as long as it can. My previous phone, an iPhone 4, lasted almost three years.
Sent from my LG-D802 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
vPro97 said:
I usually make my phone go as long as it can. My previous phone, an iPhone 4, lasted almost three years.
Sent from my LG-D802 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the battery will last 3 years, its lithium battery, some people still own old phones like Iphone 4 and the battery still good.
battery is battery, just dont let it over heat and it'll be fine. stop trying to squeeze every second out of the battery and enjoy the phone...
I always thought it stopped charging at 100 but when it looses a little bit on the charger it charges it back. I thought that's why it said to conserve energy....as in energy from your house.
Sent from my VS980 4G using xda app-developers app
It's an established fact that keeping the phone at charged state between 40%-80% is most optimal (causes least stress) for the battery.
But of course, don't let that get in the way of your daily usage routine and cause you incovenience.
Battery is, afterall, consumable and is meant to be replaced.
I'm afraid there are lots of ill-informed people who insist that their batteries do not deteriorate. Congrats to them, they just find the solution that solves the global energy crisis.
How Often Should I Charge My Gadget's Battery to Prolong Its Lifespan?
http://lifehacker.com/5875162/how-often-should-i-charge-my-gadgets-battery-to-prolong-its-lifespan
If you like to get more technical, there's good information from the Pros.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Here's my notes from a few years ago.
--------------------------------------------------------
Li-Ion Battery
(From Wiki) During discharge, lithium ions Li+ carry the current from the negative to the positive electrode, through the non-aqueous electrolyte
and separator diaphragm.[7]
During charging, an external electrical power source (the charging circuit) applies a higher voltage (but of the same polarity) than that
produced by the battery, forcing the current to pass in the reverse direction. The lithium ions then migrate from the positive to the
negative electrode, where they become embedded in the porous electrode material in a process known as intercalation.
Prolonging battery pack life (from wiki)
+ Avoid deep discharge and instead charge more often between uses, the smaller the depth of discharge, the longer the battery will last.
+ Avoid storing the battery in full discharged state.
+ Li-ion batteries should be kept cool; they may be stored in a refrigerator.
+ The rate of degradation of Li-ion batteries is strongly temperature-dependent; they degrade much faster if stored or used at higher temperatures.
+ Li-ion has no memory effect.
+ Li-ion does not need to be fully charged.
+ In fact, it is better NOT to fully charge, because high voltages stresses the battery.
+ Li-ion cannot absorb overcharge, and when fully charged the charge current must be cut off =>
+ To minimize stress, keep the lithium-ion battery at the 4.20V/cell peak voltage as short a time as possible. (meaning do NOT overcharge)
+ Some portable devices sit in a charge cradle in the on position. The current drawn through the device is called the parasitic load and
can distort the charge cycle. Battery manufacturers advise against parasitic load because it induces mini-cycles.
What does that mean to us? Don't use when it's plugged in?
+ A portable device must be turned off during charge. This allows the battery to reach the set threshold voltage unhindered, and enables terminating charge on low current.
+ Li-ion should never be discharged too low.
+ Do not recharge lithium-ion if a cell has stayed at or below 1.5V for more than a week.
Simple Guidelines for Charging Lithium-based Batteries (from batteryuniversity.com)
+ A portable device should be turned off while charging. This allows the battery to reach
the threshold voltage unhindered and reflects the correct saturation current responsible to
terminate the charge. A parasitic load confuses the charger.
+ Charge at a moderate temperature. Do not charge below freezing.
+ Lithium-ion does not need to be fully charged; a partial charge is better.
+ Chargers use different methods for “ready” indication. The light signal may not always indicate a full charge.
+ Discontinue using charger and/or battery if the battery gets excessively warm.
+ Before prolonged storage, apply some charge to bring the pack to about half charge.
+ Over-discharged batteries can be “boosted” to life again. Discard pack if the voltage does not rise to a normal level within a minute while on boost.
Conclusion:
+ A portable device should be turned off while charging.
+ Avoid deep discharge and instead charge more often between uses.
+ Lithium-ion does not need to be fully charged; a partial charge is better.
G1_enthusiast said:
just charge the thing and use it, I have a Samsung Galaxy S2 2-3 years ago the battery still going strong, most of you dont even own a phone past a year.
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Click to collapse
I've had (and still have) the Samsung Galaxy S2 for over 2 years, and I had to replace the battery a little over half a year ago due to the dreaded battery bulge (I could spin my battery on the table). So yes, batteries do go bad and they can go bad in a short period of time. And yes, if this happens to the G2 with its non-removeable battery, that really sucks.
beezar said:
I've had (and still have) the Samsung Galaxy S2 for over 2 years, and I had to replace the battery a little over half a year ago due to the dreaded battery bulge (I could spin my battery on the table). So yes, batteries do go bad and they can go bad in a short period of time. And yes, if this happens to the G2 with its non-removeable battery, that really sucks.
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Click to collapse
did you leave it in 150 degrees heat?
I almost always turn off my phone if I know its gonna be 100+ outside and 150 in my car. its commonsense.
votinh said:
Here's my notes from a few years ago.
--------------------------------------------------------
Li-Ion Battery
(From Wiki) During discharge, lithium ions Li+ carry the current from the negative to the positive electrode, through the non-aqueous electrolyte
and separator diaphragm.[7]
During charging, an external electrical power source (the charging circuit) applies a higher voltage (but of the same polarity) than that
produced by the battery, forcing the current to pass in the reverse direction. The lithium ions then migrate from the positive to the
negative electrode, where they become embedded in the porous electrode material in a process known as intercalation.
Prolonging battery pack life (from wiki)
+ Avoid deep discharge and instead charge more often between uses, the smaller the depth of discharge, the longer the battery will last.
+ Avoid storing the battery in full discharged state.
+ Li-ion batteries should be kept cool; they may be stored in a refrigerator.
+ The rate of degradation of Li-ion batteries is strongly temperature-dependent; they degrade much faster if stored or used at higher temperatures.
+ Li-ion has no memory effect.
+ Li-ion does not need to be fully charged.
+ In fact, it is better NOT to fully charge, because high voltages stresses the battery.
+ Li-ion cannot absorb overcharge, and when fully charged the charge current must be cut off =>
+ To minimize stress, keep the lithium-ion battery at the 4.20V/cell peak voltage as short a time as possible. (meaning do NOT overcharge)
+ Some portable devices sit in a charge cradle in the on position. The current drawn through the device is called the parasitic load and
can distort the charge cycle. Battery manufacturers advise against parasitic load because it induces mini-cycles.
What does that mean to us? Don't use when it's plugged in?
+ A portable device must be turned off during charge. This allows the battery to reach the set threshold voltage unhindered, and enables terminating charge on low current.
+ Li-ion should never be discharged too low.
+ Do not recharge lithium-ion if a cell has stayed at or below 1.5V for more than a week.
Simple Guidelines for Charging Lithium-based Batteries (from batteryuniversity.com)
+ A portable device should be turned off while charging. This allows the battery to reach
the threshold voltage unhindered and reflects the correct saturation current responsible to
terminate the charge. A parasitic load confuses the charger.
+ Charge at a moderate temperature. Do not charge below freezing.
+ Lithium-ion does not need to be fully charged; a partial charge is better.
+ Chargers use different methods for “ready” indication. The light signal may not always indicate a full charge.
+ Discontinue using charger and/or battery if the battery gets excessively warm.
+ Before prolonged storage, apply some charge to bring the pack to about half charge.
+ Over-discharged batteries can be “boosted” to life again. Discard pack if the voltage does not rise to a normal level within a minute while on boost.
Conclusion:
+ A portable device should be turned off while charging.
+ Avoid deep discharge and instead charge more often between uses.
+ Lithium-ion does not need to be fully charged; a partial charge is better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just because it is on a wiki does not mean it is correct. Anyone that purports that current flows from negative to positive, is clearly not an engineer, and thus not a subject matter expert (I stopped reading right there so excuse if I'm repeating).
Heat, be it from charging, discharging, or environment, and over discharge, or improper charging are the primary reasons batteries lose capacity. Lithium polymer batteries will lose some of its initial capacity after a thousand or so charge-discharge cycles, but this is very much dependent on the charging rate used to charge the battery. If the charge rate is 0.5C or less, there is much less capacity loss (if any) over time. Charge rates of 1C and over, generate significant heat that deteriorates the cell chemistry over time, reducing capacity.
If I can ever kill my battery enough, I'll throw this phone on my charge profiler at work to see what charge rate it uses.
BTW, my two year old GSII is on its original battery and lasts all day with 40% left at the end of the day. I charge over night with no ill effects, but I never expose the phone to excessive heat.
T
Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk 2
I slow charge my phone using a 500mA iPhone Cube brick and microUSB cable for overnight charging. Charging this way takes hours. I use quick charge in my car and office if needed.
A good charger should trickle charge once its 100% just to keep it up.
Sent from my VS980 4G using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
So our phones do not come with a good charger?
Sent from my VS980 4G using xda app-developers app
tedkunich said:
Just because it is on a wiki does not mean it is correct. Anyone that purports that current flows from negative to positive, is clearly not an engineer, and thus not a subject matter expert (I stopped reading right there so excuse if I'm repeating).
Heat, be it from charging, discharging, or environment, and over discharge, or improper charging are the primary reasons batteries lose capacity. Lithium polymer batteries will lose some of its initial capacity after a thousand or so charge-discharge cycles, but this is very much dependent on the charging rate used to charge the battery. If the charge rate is 0.5C or less, there is much less capacity loss (if any) over time. Charge rates of 1C and over, generate significant heat that deteriorates the cell chemistry over time, reducing capacity.
If I can ever kill my battery enough, I'll throw this phone on my charge profiler at work to see what charge rate it uses.
BTW, my two year old GSII is on its original battery and lasts all day with 40% left at the end of the day. I charge over night with no ill effects, but I never expose the phone to excessive heat.
T
Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You quoted my post to say that info on Wiki and Battery University is wrong? and giving an example of charging your SGS2 overnite with no ill effects to prove them wrong?
votinh said:
You quoted my post to say that info on Wiki and Battery University is wrong? and giving an example of charging your SGS2 overnite with no ill effects to prove them wrong?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like I said, I stopped reading the moment they stated the incorrect definition of current flow - if they got that basic tenant wrong, wasn't going to read further. Was not my intent to offend by quoting your post. My comment on the charging overnight was a general response to a prior post that leaving the device on the charger overnight was detrimental to the battery - probably should have quoted that post. In general, leaving an advanced device like a cellphone plugged into a charger will not overcharge a battery - a cheap toy will probably not have a proper charger and CAN damage a cell if left on for prolonged periods.
BTW, I'm an EE and design in Li-po batteries and chargers in my designs and I'm always dealing with non-technical marketing and sales folks to explain these types of details, so I tend to jump in when I hear wrong information (not saying the links contained false information) being discussed.
T
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
votinh said:
Here's my notes from a few years ago.
--------------------------------------------------------
Li-Ion Battery
(From Wiki) During discharge, lithium ions Li+ carry the current from the negative to the positive electrode, through the non-aqueous electrolyte
and separator diaphragm.[7]
During charging, an external electrical power source (the charging circuit) applies a higher voltage (but of the same polarity) than that
produced by the battery, forcing the current to pass in the reverse direction. The lithium ions then migrate from the positive to the
negative electrode, where they become embedded in the porous electrode material in a process known as intercalation.
Prolonging battery pack life (from wiki)
+ Avoid deep discharge and instead charge more often between uses, the smaller the depth of discharge, the longer the battery will last.
+ Avoid storing the battery in full discharged state.
+ Li-ion batteries should be kept cool; they may be stored in a refrigerator.
+ The rate of degradation of Li-ion batteries is strongly temperature-dependent; they degrade much faster if stored or used at higher temperatures.
+ Li-ion has no memory effect.
+ Li-ion does not need to be fully charged.
+ In fact, it is better NOT to fully charge, because high voltages stresses the battery.
+ Li-ion cannot absorb overcharge, and when fully charged the charge current must be cut off =>
+ To minimize stress, keep the lithium-ion battery at the 4.20V/cell peak voltage as short a time as possible. (meaning do NOT overcharge)
+ Some portable devices sit in a charge cradle in the on position. The current drawn through the device is called the parasitic load and
can distort the charge cycle. Battery manufacturers advise against parasitic load because it induces mini-cycles.
What does that mean to us? Don't use when it's plugged in?
+ A portable device must be turned off during charge. This allows the battery to reach the set threshold voltage unhindered, and enables terminating charge on low current.
+ Li-ion should never be discharged too low.
+ Do not recharge lithium-ion if a cell has stayed at or below 1.5V for more than a week.
Simple Guidelines for Charging Lithium-based Batteries (from batteryuniversity.com)
+ A portable device should be turned off while charging. This allows the battery to reach
the threshold voltage unhindered and reflects the correct saturation current responsible to
terminate the charge. A parasitic load confuses the charger.
+ Charge at a moderate temperature. Do not charge below freezing.
+ Lithium-ion does not need to be fully charged; a partial charge is better.
+ Chargers use different methods for “ready” indication. The light signal may not always indicate a full charge.
+ Discontinue using charger and/or battery if the battery gets excessively warm.
+ Before prolonged storage, apply some charge to bring the pack to about half charge.
+ Over-discharged batteries can be “boosted” to life again. Discard pack if the voltage does not rise to a normal level within a minute while on boost.
Conclusion:
+ A portable device should be turned off while charging.
+ Avoid deep discharge and instead charge more often between uses.
+ Lithium-ion does not need to be fully charged; a partial charge is better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does this wall of text pertain to lithium polymer as well? Consdering that is the type of battery in the phone not ion
Sent from my LG-VS980