Hi all,
I'm really not sure where to file bug reports, but this is p***ing me off.
I bought this phone because it fast charged (and other reasons), it's known that the fast charging was broken in the last OTA, but I heard that the Cyanogenmod stable build supported it.
(I followed the directions here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/ele...m-21-07-cyanogenmod-13-0-android-6-0-t3423518 to install, and it went perfectly, thanks Deepflex and the rest!)
But when I plug it into my bench PSU the behaviour is exactly the same as with the previous OTA update which broke PE+ charging.
I can see everything turned on in the kernel source here:
https://github.com/Deepflex/android...q=CONFIG_MTK_PUMP_EXPRESS_PLUS_SUPPORT&utf8=✓
Where should I make this bug report?
How can I fix this?
Cheers,
R
Try the darksense kernel. That is what I use..BTW the elephone USB cables don't have the correct resistors or meet the usb c standard
Pro4TLZZ said:
BTW the elephone USB cables don't have the correct resistors or meet the usb c standard
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This breach of the standard is necessary for a USB-A - USB-C fast charging cable - otherwise fast charging would not be possible (or it should be a USB C - C cable for fast charging, which would not be very practical for home use).
viktorhu said:
This breach of the standard is necessary for a USB-A - USB-C fast charging cable - otherwise fast charging would not be possible (or it should be a USB C - C cable for fast charging, which would not be very practical for home use).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I won't pretend to know much about the different USB standards as I don't but I am curious.
If this is the case, why do we have manufacturers such as Anker touting about their cables having the correct resistors and Google engineers naming and shaming manufacturers who don't have the correct resistors etc?
Jonny said:
I won't pretend to know much about the different USB standards as I don't but I am curious.
If this is the case, why do we have manufacturers such as Anker touting about their cables having the correct resistors and Google engineers naming and shaming manufacturers who don't have the correct resistors etc?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because of the risk. Imagine this:
- USB C is theoretically capable of charging at 3A.
- USB A in the computers is theoretically designed for up to 0.5A.
- You plug in your phone to your computer, it will draw 3A from a 0.5A socket, leave it there for charging, your computer is grilled.
So the USB C - A cables have to signal that they are USB C - A so that the device only draws 0.5A. Your computer is safe, your charging is practically gone. Only USB C - C cables are supposed to be capable of charging at a higher rate to make sure you don't plug them into a computer (unless the computer has a USB C port but then it should be ready for show).
If you want to keep compatibility with your existing chargers, AND be able to charge at your usual 2 amps, you have to break the standard. Risk is limited, because reality is rarely that extreme (your Elephone is not going to draw 3A and your computer is ready to share a little more than 0.5) - probably not much different from many USB B - A ports and cables that can draw 2A and have not been known to cause actual trouble before.
But the warning goes - don't charge your phone with non-standard USB-C cables connected to a computer, only use them with wall chargers.
viktorhu said:
This breach of the standard is necessary for a USB-A - USB-C fast charging cable - otherwise fast charging would not be possible (or it should be a USB C - C cable for fast charging, which would not be very practical for home use).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is only necessary for the PC. With the 56k resistor the wall charger can be fine
Pro4TLZZ said:
Try the darksense kernel. That is what I use..BTW the elephone USB cables don't have the correct resistors or meet the usb c standard
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The darksense kernel doesn't do it either. I tried it the other night with Leskal on the line and made a vid about it, the only thing that does PE+ quick charging properly is an old OTA.
robot-army said:
The darksense kernel doesn't do it either. I tried it the other night with Leskal on the line and made a vid about it, the only thing that does PE+ quick charging properly is an old OTA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think the problem with the current kernels is that they do not detect the amp pulses correctly. I have seen people say that fast charging works for them on the latest roms, but it seems every update it gets slower
Pro4TLZZ said:
i think the problem with the current kernels is that they do not detect the amp pulses correctly. I have seen people say that fast charging works for them on the latest roms, but it seems every update it gets slower
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
PE+ does not work on my phone with the OTA I have (20160810), or any others, except for the one in my vid.
The phone GENERATES the current('amp') pulses, but you're right, they are not being generated, hence no PE+.
'Fast charging' might work, as in, their phone charges rather quickly, but it's difficult to detect PE+ behaviour without measuring the voltage and current on the USB supply side, and it'll only work with a compatible charger which are not plentiful atm.
robot-army said:
PE+ does not work on my phone with the OTA I have (20160810), or any others, except for the one in my vid.
The phone GENERATES the current('amp') pulses, but you're right, they are not being generated, hence no PE+.
'Fast charging' might work, as in, their phone charges rather quickly, but it's difficult to detect PE+ behaviour without measuring the voltage and current on the USB supply side, and it'll only work with a compatible charger which are not plentiful atm.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As for other charge behaviours changing, definitely it's possible for the charge profile to be changed in the firmware.
The battery definitely got over 45 degrees C during PE+ charging. I've got a feeling someone got nervous about this and instead of doing proper temperature controlled charging they effectively current limited the system by disabling PE+ in the firmware....maybe...who knows, just an idea.
robot-army said:
As for other charge behaviours changing, definitely it's possible for the charge profile to be changed in the firmware.
The battery definitely got over 45 degrees C during PE+ charging. I've got a feeling someone got nervous about this and instead of doing proper temperature controlled charging they effectively current limited the system by disabling PE+ in the firmware....maybe...who knows, just an idea.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hopefully someone is able to decode the old kernels so we can transfer the drivers. but i think on some roms deepflex already improved the thermal efficiency and charging temps so hopefully factory use his fix and bring it back next month.
Pro4TLZZ said:
hopefully someone is able to decode the old kernels so we can transfer the drivers. but i think on some roms deepflex already improved the thermal efficiency and charging temps so hopefully factory use his fix and bring it back next month.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We can't as I've previously stated. A Linux kernel is not something you can reverse engineer.
We don't have source code for older kernel versions so can't diff or swap out the drivers.
Jonny said:
We can't as I've previously stated. A Linux kernel is not something you can reverse engineer.
We don't have source code for older kernel versions so can't diff or swap out the drivers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, from what I understand it's up to Elephone to release source to fix this, which is annoying.
Related
Greetings Devs.
I found this software which promises to charge i products faster. So why not the nook? I know it works with the ipad/iphone/itouch, but not the NC (or anything else for that matter). I was looking in the ini file and managed to match up the class id of each product, and then I found the id for the NC and added this line:
HKLM, System\CurrentControlSet\Control\Class\{3f966bd9-fa04-4ec5-991c-d326973b5128}, LowerFilters, %REG_MULTI_SZ_APPEND%, AiCharger
To both the install and uninstall filter. However, I cannot tell if it pushes extra power to just the ipad, or if it does to all of them.
Ideas? Tried digging around the sys file in hex, but nothing found. I think it would be nice if we could boost output a bit
USB Standard is 500mAh. If you somehow force your port to deliver more power you could fry it.
khaytsus said:
USB Standard is 500mAh. If you somehow force your port to deliver more power you could fry it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well yeah, but no one is at least curious if this could help out at all? Maybe hardware manufactures cap it @ 5V, .5A and they override it? Maybe it provides a steadier draw somehow? Maybe they draw more power from the rails for powered-usb slots?
ace7196 said:
Well yeah, but no one is at least curious if this could help out at all? Maybe hardware manufactures cap it @ 5V, .5A and they override it? Maybe it provides a steadier draw somehow? Maybe they draw more power from the rails for powered-usb slots?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Charging more than 500ma through the USB hardware is bad.
Lithium batteries charge at full amperage over the entire charge cycle, and just turn off the charge when they hit a certain voltage (~3.6v per cell on lipo IIRC?)
I don't think there is anything you can do from the computer side unless it tells the device itself to pull the full 500ma when it would try to pull less (for fear of overloading a USB interface, as there are usually 2 ports per USB port on a computer (IIRC.)
IMO, just use a powered USB hub?
Winmo custom roms had a quick-charge feature built in to a lot of them.
I don't think anyone fried anything.
This thread belongs in QnA though unless the op is actually developing something.
Did any naysayers even bother to look at the link? It is for Asus brand mobos only. And only certain ones are supported. Surely Asus isn't going to release an app that would fry the port...
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
lafester said:
Winmo custom roms had a quick-charge feature built in to a lot of them.
I don't think anyone fried anything.
This thread belongs in QnA though unless the op is actually developing something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thinking of developing the software for it...
Syco54645 said:
Did any naysayers even bother to look at the link? It is for Asus brand mobos only. And only certain ones are supported. Surely Asus isn't going to release an app that would fry the port...
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As pointed out here, this is not JUST simply software. This is the software portion of a hardware feature on Asus motherboards. The boards have a separate controller in them that allows more amperage to specific USB ports for the purpose of charging particular, high amperage items (ipad, iphone) only. As also stated here, the USB standard is a fixed 5V .5A and this isn't something that can simply be modified via software as the controllers themselves would have problems managing higher draws (not really the physical ports).
The only application this would have would be to users with those specific boards IF the software can be hacked to allow that amperage on the Nook. It may also be worth mentioning that the Nook's internal connector is different and the higher power provided by the wall charger is not over the standard USB VCC pins on the connector. I'm not familiar enough with the wiring inside the device to say for certain, but the standard charge connections from USB may be a different path than the wall charger on a charge controller.
Quick Edit: This actually doesn't appear to be the same as their hardware specific version, which most likely makes it even less useful. It looks like this enables charging in multiple standby modes and most likely forces the port to full amperage; which is typically only done after the device negotiates with the system, initial port power is much lower. My device manager shows the Nook pulling it's full 500mA already, so unless you're trying to do a lot of charging while your computer is in standby, this isn't gonna be of much use.
Edit 2: Quick bounce around the internet shows this app as causing a bit of instability and BSODs. May not be everyone, so if you're still testing this let us know if you're stable.
Infraded said:
As pointed out here, this is not JUST simply software. This is the software portion of a hardware feature on Asus motherboards. The boards have a separate controller in them that allows more amperage to specific USB ports for the purpose of charging particular, high amperage items (ipad, iphone) only. As also stated here, the USB standard is a fixed 5V .5A and this isn't something that can simply be modified via software as the controllers themselves would have problems managing higher draws (not really the physical ports).
The only application this would have would be to users with those specific boards IF the software can be hacked to allow that amperage on the Nook. It may also be worth mentioning that the Nook's internal connector is different and the higher power provided by the wall charger is not over the standard USB VCC pins on the connector. I'm not familiar enough with the wiring inside the device to say for certain, but the standard charge connections from USB may be a different path than the wall charger on a charge controller.
Quick Edit: This actually doesn't appear to be the same as their hardware specific version, which most likely makes it even less useful. It looks like this enables charging in multiple standby modes and most likely forces the port to full amperage; which is typically only done after the device negotiates with the system, initial port power is much lower. My device manager shows the Nook pulling it's full 500mA already, so unless you're trying to do a lot of charging while your computer is in standby, this isn't gonna be of much use.
Edit 2: Quick bounce around the internet shows this app as causing a bit of instability and BSODs. May not be everyone, so if you're still testing this let us know if you're stable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have to use the nook's cable to quick charge. I believe it's the same on the USB side but different on the NC side.
Thanks Infraded for the helpful reply. I did a quick search and it seemed it caused more trouble than it's worth (BSOD, etc). I'll dig deeper.
I had the same issues with my iPad. If your motherboard vendor supports it, they have a BIOS update that adjusts the USB ports to charge things like the Nook and iPad.
khaytsus said:
USB Standard is 500mAh. If you somehow force your port to deliver more power you could fry it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some dell laptops (my 5400 has it) have an option in bios for USB Power Share, where they allow USB devices which know if they are connected to to wall chargers or USB plugs to charge as if they were on wall chargers.
Its epic win.
In the NC teardown, didn't they discover that the Nook Color actually uses a custom micro USB connector which is backwards compatible with the standard? It goes on to say that the NC charges only through a pair of 12V pins on the USB cable that is provided with it out of the box, and in fact when you connect your NC to your computer it is *not charging at all* even if your ROM says it is. This is consistent with my experience where the battery only goes down when plugged into my PC.
Needless to say you would need some pretty serious hardware hacks to get your PC pumping 12 volts to the USB cable.
mthe0ry said:
In the NC teardown, didn't they discover that the Nook Color actually uses a custom micro USB connector which is backwards compatible with the standard? It goes on to say that the NC charges only through a pair of 12V pins on the USB cable that is provided with it out of the box, and in fact when you connect your NC to your computer it is *not charging at all* even if your ROM says it is. This is consistent with my experience where the battery only goes down when plugged into my PC.
Needless to say you would need some pretty serious hardware hacks to get your PC pumping 12 volts to the USB cable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Um, no. The wall charger puts out 5 volts @ 1.9 Amps. Take a close look at the bottom of your own charger...specs are right there. Supposedly, the nook will only charge when the amperage is at least 1.9 amps. In practice it will charge as much as can minus the current it is drawing...usually more than a standard port can put out(.5A).
ie standard port = .5A
Nook draw is ~ .45A
total for charging is .05A....barely noticeable or in worst case not even enough to keep up.
Not to mention that many ports shut down entirely if they think they are sending out to much current.
send 12 volts into your nook and you will have found one of the few ways to brick it
edit: what these"hacks" for the usb ports do is raise the limiting on them to higher values..say 5 volts @ 1A or rarely 1.5A
Two of SMSC's family of transceivers supports up to 1.5A from dedicated charger ports.
Furthermore, I'm charging my nook color from my netbook right now with a standard non-OEM usb cable. So I don't think you need the standard one
Some basic info here:
http://www.smsc.com/media/Downloads/Product_Brochures/usb333x_334xfs.pdf
ace7196 said:
Two of SMSC's family of transceivers supports up to 1.5A from dedicated charger ports.
Furthermore, I'm charging my nook color from my netbook right now with a standard non-OEM usb cable. So I don't think you need the standard one
Some basic info here:
http://www.smsc.com/media/Downloads/Product_Brochures/usb333x_334xfs.pdf
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I'm thinking that the extra pins in the stock cable are mostly for the led in there. Going back to work monday and ordering a spare for teardown purposes with my first check. I'll let you all know exactly what I find out.
mthe0ry said:
In the NC teardown, didn't they discover that the Nook Color actually uses a custom micro USB connector which is backwards compatible with the standard? It goes on to say that the NC charges only through a pair of 12V pins on the USB cable that is provided with it out of the box, and in fact when you connect your NC to your computer it is *not charging at all* even if your ROM says it is. This is consistent with my experience where the battery only goes down when plugged into my PC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Except that it does charge on ANY source. If the NC is running and active it uses MORE CURRENT THAN 500mAh, so it won't charge any, but it's still getting 500mAh of juice.
If you turn off the screen, it'll slowly charge.... Around 10%/hr.
And I suspect that the 1.9A from the stock charger+cable comes from all 3 pairs, the standard pair + the two extra in the B&N cable, but it's possible that the stock cable only charges the extra two pairs. Regardless, it does charge from a standard cable on any USB port. The B&N ROM does not show charging unless it's charging at 1.9A.
ace7196 said:
Two of SMSC's family of transceivers supports up to 1.5A from dedicated charger ports.
Furthermore, I'm charging my nook color from my netbook right now with a standard non-OEM usb cable. So I don't think you need the standard one
Some basic info here:
http://www.smsc.com/media/Downloads/Product_Brochures/usb333x_334xfs.pdf
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can also confirm nook will charge off a standard USB (at least while I've got CM7), using the stock BN cable, and definitely faster than 10%/hour. Have been doing so off my work computer for a while now. I recall that this did NOT work while the NC was virgin unrooted, however, although occasionally there'd be this weird "bump" in batt level to 100% when first connecting. Have not seen that effect since going to CM7.
last night as a test I let my nook go to 10% remaining. Then I used my daughters LG Ally cable on the stock charger for 1 hour. It charged to 24%. Then I drained back to 10% and used the stock cable for 1 hour...result?....44%. There IS something special with the stock cable. I don't think there is any magic to the charger other than the amperage.
deadbot1 said:
last night as a test I let my nook go to 10% remaining. Then I used my daughters LG Ally cable on the stock charger for 1 hour. It charged to 24%. Then I drained back to 10% and used the stock cable for 1 hour...result?....44%. There IS something special with the stock cable. I don't think there is any magic to the charger other than the amperage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uh.. Yeah. As said a hundred times, the cable has 4 extra pins for charging on the MicroUSB side.
Have an SGSII running 2.3.4
When in car and Bluetooth is on, to provide hookup to car kit, all OK ... runs all day no problem. (connects to Parrot in-car kit) ... screen is off unless call is active.
However when I enable Satnav (buit-in Navigation app) even though phone is plugged into car 12V supply the battery drain exceeds its charge rate .... slowly discharges, after about an Hr you get 'battery Low' warning ....
Presumably the display being permanently on is drawing so much current that the USB charge lead cannot keep upl
The phone confirms that plug is active and charging ... but the drain obviously exceeds charge rate.
This is a significant issue ... anybody know a fix for this, can you change the rate of charge ?
need to change your charger, i had this using a 500ma charger, i have a 1000ma one now and dont suffer this problem now
kinjo is right. You may experience this as well when charging off a laptop. Not all chargers are created equal
Ah ... OK I had assumed that there would be not power limit from the DC outlet as they can produce 5A.
I'll have to go loook for a 1A ver
The SGS2 charging rate is limited to a max of 650mA and any current from a charger higher that this will be limited.
Default AC 650mA
USB 450mA
If rooted, there are apps and scripts that can increase the rate of charge through the USB to 650, but you're likely to damage your PC port or encounter other problems if you do this. I would think, but not 100% sure it would be OK from a car USB port, you'd have to check the specs.
Voltage Control
Although the app and scripts have scope to select a higher charge rate than 650mA, any higher setting than that would be purely placebo.
An accurate charge rate will not be shown by most SGS2 kernels. Exception is siyahkernel, where changes have been made to shown accurate charging current with app such as Battery Monitor Widget and Current Widget
For further reading, from Siyahkernel v2.6.9 Changelog;
"added Entropy512′s changes to sec_battery driver to show battery charging current and changed it a little bit to map the adc readings to real charging current miliamps (mapping is done in an unscientific way but it works). you will be able to see how fast your device is being charged and also why those 100%s are not the same. (thanks to Entropy512). since I don’t know how to read discharge current (maybe there is no way to read it) you will only read that data when your device is in charging state"
Your phone will take care of how much current it drains from the USB port or charger. To do this it needs to differentiate between a USB data port and a charger. This is normally done by checking the impedance between the USB data lines D+ and D-. USB data ports will have more or less high impedance since these lines are used to transfer data . Chargers however should have a short between D+ and D-. This is how your phone can tell if it is connected to a charger or USB data port.
It then adjusts its power consumption from USB (less when connected to a USB data port, more when connected to a 'good' charger).
A very simple test to check for a sleazy charger is this: connect the charger to your phone and wait for a moment. If the phone reports a USB device (besides charging ), then change the sleazy charger.
With a 'good' charger your phone should always charge, no matter what Apps your running.
fxrb said:
Your phone will take care of how much current it drains from the USB port or charger. To do this it needs to differentiate between a USB data port and a charger. This is normally done by checking the impedance between the USB data lines D+ and D-. USB data ports will have more or less high impedance since these lines are used to transfer data . Chargers however should have a short between D+ and D-. This is how your phone can tell if it is connected to a charger or USB data port.
It then adjusts its power consumption from USB (less when connected to a USB data port, more when connected to a 'good' charger).
A very simple test to check for a sleazy charger is this: connect the charger to your phone and wait for a moment. If the phone reports a USB device (besides charging ), then change the sleazy charger.
With a 'good' charger your phone should always charge, no matter what Apps your running.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll give that a try.
Sargan said:
I'll give that a try.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It wont make any difference.
The answer of fxrb is controversive. If the charger is physically - by the way - disconnected from D+ & D- (no use) and has a high impedance due to missing connection, it makes no sense to determine if the charger is "done" or not on the phone, because you cant find out this way.
Important is that if your charger has a max. load of 0,7 A (700mA) for example, and you are using it inside your car, it may get hot during exposure to sunlight & loading to the max.
Depending on internal circuitry of the charger it will decrease the output current if the charger gets too hot (thermal protection). The internal transistor will have considerable more losses @ these temperatures (~+80°C) and higher switching times, creating more losses in general.
Usually the cheap chargers have a 34063 (or 33063 for lower temps -40°) Step-Down buck switching controller, which reaches its economical end @ this current - giving all it's got with little room for environment changes.
What will help:
You can try a charger with a higher output current capability (around 1A +) which should compensate with the high temperatures and your current requirement. On the other hand, your phone could limit the current before the accumulator reaches unsafe temperature levels due to sunlight,heavy loading and charging @ the same time. assuming you also have a black sgs II.
Your phone charging current is also not linear, in this case higher @ start and low voltages, and will decrease with charged value.
Furthermore, your phone will automatically limit the charging current in correspondence to the accu charge value. Li-Ion charging is more complicated than an ordinary NICd or NIMH, your "charger" only provides a -as most cheap & stable as possible - current for the actual charging cuircuitry, which is located on the phone bottom.
So it wont adjust to anything except knowing if 650 or 450 is allowed, the rest is managed internally and (important) excluded from the firmware.
I hope i could help. gl
Tskusie said:
It wont make any difference.
>>>
So it wont adjust to anything except knowing if 650 or 450 is allowed, the rest is managed internally and (important) excluded from the firmware.
I hope i could help. gl
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have purchased a 3A charger ... and verified that it can give well over 2 A
This is with correct lead as Phone sees this as AC charging not USB.
It still cannot keep up with the discharge rate ..
Phone + GPS + BT means more drain that it replace by charger ............ this seems a significant design flaw.
Phone is being supplied with apps that it can't run without going flat ..
I have purchased a 3A charger ... and verified that it can give well over 2 A
This is with correct lead as Phone sees this as AC charging not USB.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, and correct, it is recognized as AC because of missing data leads. I must say it actually works for a lot of people with chargers with an output of 700mA - 1A (5 Volts USB-b) navigating and using standard apps.
this seems a significant design flaw.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont think there is that design error, honestly. Also, personally never encountered that problem.. It seems that your accumulator if faulty or it gets too hot. How old is your phone? Depending on usage, temperature and charging times it may have reached its end. But this is the last call i think...
Have you:
- Checked the accumulator temperature when performing (with an app like "spare parts" [free] or some code *#0000# or *#0# - battery stats)
it should'nt exceed temperatures above (approx) 54°C or >60°C is critical (for the accu), where the OS should shut down automatically.
- Tried to turn off one or two main things and checked if it is charging?
- Cleaned the contacts from possible metallic objects in between from chewing gum packaging for example (blow a few times)
- Tried to use any power saving mode
--- If you have a rooted kernel (CM9, Fluxi, Siyah etc...)
- Wiped battery stats in CWM & (maybe) clear cache.
- Undervolt the CPU (minor change) & or GPU
-Generally tried another MODEM, LQ5, LPS (depending on your geographic location) http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1131950
or KERNEL http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1255790 (fluxxi is not in the thread, which is also a good kernel & tweakable http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1644648)
Please let me know if it helped you. I know it is an annoying problem. If you have an easy access to try out another accumulator, give it a shot, otherwise i would consider it as last option.
If nothing helped, please let me know which system (firmware) you are using with which kernel and modem in your next post (settings--about phone--). gl
It's about 6 months old.
Sargan said:
It's about 6 months old.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you read the rest? It is hard to help you if you don't provide information.
Like i said, i think you may have a faulty accumulator. Assuming the circuitry of the car can provide the necessary power, everything should be ok.
Which version of android are you using?
Which modem?
Which kernel?
Custom rom?
Have you tried to stress your phone to the max with the normal AC charger? If yes, results the same?
Android ver 4.0.3
GT-I9100
Kernel -3.0.15
Not tried stress test on AC
So you're on the latest stock ROM?
You should try the AC test, turn on everything, stress it for at least 20 min or longer while charging. If you encounter the same issues it is likely that you have a faulty power source. Clean the contacts before testing.
Let me know when you tried it out.. :highfive:
Tskusie said:
It wont make any difference.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It will make a difference if the phone fails to detect the charger as such.
Tskusie said:
The answer of fxrb is controversive. If the charger is physically - by the way - disconnected from D+ & D- (no use) and has a high impedance due to missing connection, it makes no sense to determine if the charger is "done" or not on the phone, because you cant find out this way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was referring to how a PD (portable device or phone here) detects a dedicated charger. To put it simple: if the PD fails to detect a dedicated charger it will normally limit the charging current at a lower level.
For further information you might want read the Battery Charging v1.2 Spec and Adopters Agreement. Just two quotes from there:
In order for a PD to determine how much current it is allowed to draw from an upstream USB port, there need to be mechanisms that allow the PD to distinguish between a Standard Downstream Port and a Charging Port
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and
1.4.7 Dedicated Charging Port
A Dedicated Charging Port (DCP) is a downstream port on a device that outputs power through a USB connector, but is not capable of numerating a downstream device. A DCP shall source I DCP at an average voltage of V CHG .
A DCP shall short the D+ line to the D- line.
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Furthermore there are many devices dedicated to detecting what charging device is connected to a PD. Here are just two examples:
The STUSBCD01B from STMicroelectronics
The FAN3989 from Fairchild Semiconductor
Tskusie said:
Ok, and correct, it is recognized as AC because of missing data leads. I must say it actually works for a lot of people with chargers with an output of 700mA - 1A (5 Volts USB-b) navigating and using standard apps.
>>
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I use standard SGSII, no custom ROM
Kernel is 3.0.15-1I9100XWLP7-CL3400913
Baseband ver I9100XXLPS
I will try and watch temp on next car test ... one thing I can be sure of it was NOT related to over temp via solar gain in the, as at the time I first noticed this it was snowing.
fxrb said:
It will make a difference if the phone fails to detect the charger as such.
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The only thing it detects if the connected power source is AC or Hub. For AC it just measures the Impedance (with a current) between D+ and D- which should be <200 Ohm. (doesn't matter if they are connected with low impedance on the AC, because they are not needed for charging).
To detect a hub it will recognize a VDAT_SCR (Data voltage source) on D-, and will start the above detection, or for standard hubs through their pull down resistors on D+/-. If it fails (between D+ and D- >>200), it is a hub charger.
I know what you meant. SOO if the charger itself is limiting the current, which can be possible depending on used charger, it will be detected as dedicated charger but the phone can adjust to everything it likes, it wont make any difference, thats what i meant. The maximum current will be limited to 650mA, and if the charger itself has a current limiting ability and for example only gives 500 because of any reason, how will you be able to destinguish that?
I am not familiar with the detection methods through USB itself, which determines if it is a downstream or charging port. Are you sure that the SGSII supports that? The USB port, doesnt matter which, follow standards, and if there is a device which consumes more than the 500 (HDD's for example) will just have another connector (without data) for parallel switching, (just to double the current sink capability) All of that wont help Sargan either
fxrb said:
For further information you might want read the Battery Charging v1.2 Spec and Adopters Agreement.
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Thanks, i will have a look into it.:good:
fxrb said:
1.4.7 Dedicated Charging Port
A Dedicated Charging Port (DCP) is a downstream port on a device that outputs power through a USB connector, but is not capable of numerating a downstream device. A DCP shall source I DCP at an average voltage of V CHG .
A DCP shall short the D+ line to the D- line.
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They are not really shorted, but yes low impedance -- <200 Ohm... . Arent these hybrid ports?
an average voltage of VCHG @ which current?
Yeah, there are a lot of IC's for that, idk what's in his charger. I've seen the DC-DC Converter 34063 in cheap ones...
Sargan said:
I use standard SGSII, no custom ROM
Kernel is 3.0.15-1I9100XWLP7-CL3400913
Baseband ver I9100XXLPS
I will try and watch temp on next car test ... one thing I can be sure of it was NOT related to over temp via solar gain in the, as at the time I first noticed this it was snowing.
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OK, and you say you have your phone for 6 months? So you must have experienced that at the very beginning already???
Please do the AC test and let us know.
Tskusie said:
Thanks, i will have a look into it.:good:
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Good idea...
are there any script to increase the usb charging current? I'm using BIFTOR V7.2 with jeeboo V2.1 kernel
A little bit off topic. .
How long does it take to charge ur S2 with a charger doing nothing but leaving it for charging. ?.. It took me 3 hrs to charge mine frm 2% to 100% using a 700mah charger. .
Is this normal or does it take less ? Plz share your opinion. .
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
FWIW, I think I may have traced my recent charging problems to a Belkin USB charger at my office. On this power source, the battery indicates charging from USB, and apparently there's not enough current to keep up with the demand of the device. It discharges continuously with the screen on, and only keeps even with the screen off. The only way to charge with the Belkin is to turn the phone off.
With the included HTC adapter at my home, however (and with a Motorola adapter left over from a previous phone), the Rezound will charge with screen off, and perhaps even a little with the screen on. Allowed to charge overnight, I do not have to turn the device off when using the HTC charger. On this charger, the phone indicates AC power.
Of course, none of this was an issue before I took the ICS leak. Even though I've gone back to GB, I still have the ICS firmware, and I suspect something different in there is affecting charging.
In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if HTC simply lowered charging rates as part of a campaign to deal with widespread heat issues. If you were trying to cool the phone, that's definitely something you would consider tweaking.
For sure, it's a known issue, some chargers give the full 1A ( the phone indicates AC charging) and some only give 400ma or less (USB Charging).
Search around for chargers and there's good discussion on AC adapters that work well, and even how to modify a USB wall/car charger to give a full AC amount.
Both my gigabyte and msi motherboards are able to deliver up to 1.5A via the USB ports, and are even able to charge my phone (or tablet) when the computer is OFF.
a.mcdear said:
Both my gigabyte and msi motherboards are able to deliver up to 1.5A via the USB ports, and are even able to charge my phone (or tablet) when the computer is OFF.
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for sure, but i bet your phone is only commanding 500ma from it since the phone is usb 2.0 spec... I too have a power port on my laptop to charge things when the laptop is off but it doesn't get over usb 2.0 spec because of the phone :x
I've tried everything, short of trying to make, or looking for, customized drivers to overload it.
thatsricci said:
for sure, but i bet your phone is only commanding 500ma from it since the phone is usb 2.0 spec... I too have a power port on my laptop to charge things when the laptop is off but it doesn't get over usb 2.0 spec because of the phone :x
I've tried everything, short of trying to make, or looking for, customized drivers to overload it.
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You might be right when it comes to the Rezound, but I know for a fact that it is capable of supplying more than 500mA to some devices for charging. It charges my TF101 even with the screen on, which every other computer with ordinary USB ports seems incapable of doing. If I plug my TF101 into any other computer with a standard USB 2.0 port, it will still slowly discharge if the screen is on and I'm using it.
Either way, I notice absolutely no difference between charging via USB on my computer or via the actual charger, so I'm relatively sure the USB port IS outputting at least the full 1A that the actual charger is rated at, and I am NOT using a kernel with the "fast charge" mod..
I haven't really spent much time noticing how slowly the Rezound would charge on a regular USB 2.0 port. Maybe I'll give it a shot on my laptop tonight just to test it out.
Or, a simple ammeter would probably put the issue to rest definitely.. I wonder if I know anybody with one I could use.....
a.mcdear said:
You might be right when it comes to the Rezound, but I know for a fact that it is capable of supplying more than 500mA to some devices for charging. It charges my TF101 even with the screen on, which every other computer with ordinary USB ports seems incapable of doing. If I plug my TF101 into any other computer with a standard USB 2.0 port, it will still slowly discharge if the screen is on and I'm using it.
Either way, I notice absolutely no difference between charging via USB on my computer or via the actual charger, so I'm relatively sure the USB port IS outputting at least the full 1A that the actual charger is rated at, and I am NOT using a kernel with the "fast charge" mod..
I haven't really spent much time noticing how slowly the Rezound would charge on a regular USB 2.0 port. Maybe I'll give it a shot on my laptop tonight just to test it out.
Or, a simple ammeter would probably put the issue to rest definitely.. I wonder if I know anybody with one I could use.....
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Or you could use a battery charging app to verify what rate it is charging at.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using XDA
nosympathy said:
Or you could use a battery charging app to verify what rate it is charging at.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using XDA
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Which app do you use?
thatsricci said:
for sure, but i bet your phone is only commanding 500ma from it since the phone is usb 2.0 spec... I too have a power port on my laptop to charge things when the laptop is off but it doesn't get over usb 2.0 spec because of the phone :x
I've tried everything, short of trying to make, or looking for, customized drivers to overload it.
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Use a charging only cable, i.e. Naztech Micro USB Charging Cable (sorry, don't remember who initially pointed to this), and the phone will see the source as an outlet and not a usb port.
plcline said:
Use a charging only cable, i.e. Naztech Micro USB Charging Cable (sorry, don't remember who initially pointed to this), and the phone will see the source as an outlet and not a usb port.
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Well that makes sense, any USB cord without data points can only provide power and therefore the phone wouldn't be able to determine whether its a computers USB port or a charger. When the data pins are present, the phone must request a high-power mode from the computer in order to obtain the full 500mA on standard ports, or 1.5A in the case of some newer boards as I mentioned earlier.
Although my S3 detects being plugged in to my car USB adaptor and my PC, the charge rate is ridiculously slow. If using the device as a sat-nav, the battery still declines quite rapidly.
My understanding is this is usually caused by weak output, but the charger I'm using purports to put out 2A!
Can anyone recommend a car charger for the S3 that actually works? Thanks!
The charger doesn't "tell" your phone that it can drain more than 0.5Amp.
While it's possible to go to higher speeds, the S3 prevents it unless it's sure to have a high-speed charger since most motherboard manufacturers only use crappy cheap components without power limiter.
The detection is done by a resistor between the data pins on the USB connector, so that one is either missing or the wrong value.
SiyahKernel allows you to manually force the phone to go up to 1Amp, however I wouldn't recommend it; forget to set it back and you potentially fry your computer's motherboard and/or other chargers you connect it to.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/TomTom-Univ...sr_1_sc_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1342436003&sr=8-3-spell
Both ports charge as AC
Jezza0 said:
Although my S3 detects being plugged in to my car USB adaptor and my PC, the charge rate is ridiculously slow. If using the device as a sat-nav, the battery still declines quite rapidly.
My understanding is this is usually caused by weak output, but the charger I'm using purports to put out 2A!
Can anyone recommend a car charger for the S3 that actually works? Thanks!
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I purchased the carphone warehouse in car charger, that works fine, but was aroudn £12.
d4fseeker said:
The charger doesn't "tell" your phone that it can drain more than 0.5Amp.
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Thanks - that was what I suspected, although I wasn't sure why my old devices could (apparently) negotiate a higher current, unless the S3 needs significantly more to charge.
If I've understood wikipedia correctly, the S3 should be able to draw 900mA from a USB 3.0 certified port, but only 500mA from <= USB 2.0. So a PC with the later standard would charge the S3 quite nicely.
Northern-Loop said:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/TomTom-Univ...sr_1_sc_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1342436003&sr=8-3-spell
Both ports charge as AC
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Thanks for your recommendation. 1-click ordered... you should get commission!
Guess I'll just leave a scathing review on the one I ordered. I should have known a <£3 charger was never going to work!
@daz_2000 - thanks for your comment, but I went for the TomTom brand... being able to charge 2 devices is a good thing.
Learn from my fail
OK. The issue was not my chargers, but the fact that I cheaped out on my micro-USB cables. When I use my OEM cable, it charges at the expected rate.
Two new genuine Sammy cables ordered.
OK. The issue was not my chargers, but the fact that I cheaped out on my micro-USB cables.
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If the cables are very cheap they have the wrong resistance which causes your phone not to recognize the charger.
I should have known a <£3 charger was never going to work!
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They always worked for me =) Although one went literally up in smoke, capacitor blew and caused the converter to overheat within seconds.
No damage done to the device... luckily. Or at least the device (old iPod 30G) didn't care about it, they were nearly indestructable, similar to the old Nokia phones.
I wasn't sure why my old devices could (apparently) negotiate a higher current, unless the S3 needs significantly more to charge.
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It potentially didn't. (Even if you now know that your cable is the issue). The S3 has a far larger battery so that it charges slower.
Do we know for sure why it is that dash charging only works work the dash cable. Is it a DRM issue or a design element that needs to be licensed.
I'm not too stressed out because I plan to use a standard usb c cable for overnight charging but I am curious what is actually going on inside this charger.
I am quite familiar with OP official response concerning the matter, but given their track record of non answers, I'm assuming this situation is no different.
In other words I am curious what stops a company from releasing a cable that would in fact work. Possibly with the addition of some end user kernel changes. I understand this would be slightly impractical for a large company like Aukey or Anker to release a cable for one phone (that people could not use straight out of the box) however, my curiosity is still there
https://www.androidcentral.com/dash-charge has a good article on this.
---------- Post added at 12:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:47 PM ----------
Also, supposedly it's the same tech as http://www.oppo.com/en/technology/vooc - and anything "VOOC" branded will provide the same "dash charge" speeds.
Dougshell said:
Do we know for sure why it is that dash charging only works work the dash cable. Is it a DRM issue or a design element that needs to be licensed.
I'm not too stressed out because I plan to use a standard usb c cable for overnight charging but I am curious what is actually going on inside this charger.
I am quite familiar with OP official response concerning the matter, but given their track record of non answers, I'm assuming this situation is no different.
In other words I am curious what stops a company from releasing a cable that would in fact work. Possibly with the addition of some end user kernel changes. I understand this would be slightly impractical for a large company like Aukey or Anker to release a cable for one phone (that people could not use straight out of the box) however, my curiosity is still there
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Simple Answer to this is the proprietary high amp usb type c cable which is supplied with the stock 5v 4amp power brick work well hand in hand, it is the way Oneplus has made this..one cannot work without the other so it is packaged deal..take it or leave..unless you are willing to compromise DASH Charge you can use any other type C cable and power brick adaptor
On a standard type-c (USB 3.1) cable connected to my PC, the phone slow charges. My other devices fast charge on this cable.
The other devices slow charge when connected to Dash cable and charger.
It leads me to think some very non-standards conforming USB tech is going on in the Dash gear, enough to make Benson Leung sick to his stomach. This isn't new to OnePlus, see https://plus.google.com/+BensonLeung/posts/JmcU4rA1csh
My advice would be to never use Dash gear with other devices.
Elnrik said:
It leads me to think some very non-standards conforming USB tech is going on in the Dash gear, enough to make Benson Leung sick to his stomach. This isn't new to OnePlus, see https://plus.google.com/+BensonLeung/posts/JmcU4rA1csh
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AFAIK this non-compliance thing has been there only in the first shipped cables and was fixed later on. So today's devices (this is already 2 years ago) should be compatible to USB standards and therefore other devices should load their battery at normal speed (not dash-speed) with the dash cables and dash plugs.
tobby88 said:
AFAIK this non-compliance thing has been there only in the first shipped cables and was fixed later on. So today's devices (this is already 2 years ago) should be compatible to USB standards and therefore other devices should load their battery at normal speed (not dash-speed) with the dash cables and dash plugs.
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Should, but I don't think it is. Q: why would the OP5 not fast charge over a normal type-c connection if it were standards compliant? Answer: it doesn't comply with standards.
Elnrik said:
Should, but I don't think it is. Q: why would the OP5 not fast charge over a normal type-c connection if it were standards compliant? Answer: it doesn't comply with standards.
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Amswer: OP5 doenst support any other quick charge methods (aka. QC 2.0/3.0, Adaptive Charging, Super Charging etc). It only supports normal charge or dash charge (& Vooc as dash is based on Vooc).
Also you should remember that different phones shows differently charging methods. Example Oneplus can maybe show normal 2A slow and Samsung as normal charge. Nexus 6P will show regular 3A charging as fast charging, Oneplus shows it regular charge.
For me if i use other C-cables (non-Dash charge one) it shows just "charging".
Regarding to Benson case... Original OP2 cable was non-standard. It didnt contain regular 56ohm thing. Oneplus fixed it later and dash charge cable is using standard things and also only for 3/3T/5 dash charge properties. For other phone you can use it without problems like use it to charge QC3.0 phones etc.
Sent from my OnePlus5 using XDA Labs
zige said:
Amswer: OP5 doenst support any other quick charge methods (aka. QC 2.0/3.0, Adaptive Charging, Super Charging etc). It only supports normal charge or dash charge (& Vooc as dash is based on Vooc).
Also you should remember that different phones shows differently charging methods. Example Oneplus can maybe show normal 2A slow and Samsung as normal charge. Nexus 6P will show regular 3A charging as fast charging, Oneplus shows it regular charge.
For me if i use other C-cables (non-Dash charge one) it shows just "charging".
Regarding to Benson case... Original OP2 cable was non-standard. It didnt contain regular 56ohm thing. Oneplus fixed it later and dash charge cable is using standard things and also only for 3/3T/5 dash charge properties. For other phone you can use it without problems like use it to charge QC3.0 phones etc.
Sent from my OnePlus5 using XDA Labs
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My point isn't so much about the cable as it is the device itself. It is a USB type-c device that doesn't conform to type-c USB standards.
There will be a plethora of usb-c ports on computers and chargers going forward. They are included on every new model of Apple, PC motherboard, and OEM PC - so type-c adoption is there and real. By ignoring these standards and producing a product with a proprietary design they are ostracizing their devices, and by extension their users, from simple and convenient charging methods. It ensures lots of sales of Dash chargers though.
It's a **** move straight from the Apple playbook. Apple made billions from the 30 pin to lightning connector change, and they will do it again with the lightning to Type-C change.
This Oppo/OP Dash charger isn't something consumers should be championing. It's not something Oppo/OP should be forcing on consumers either.
Elnrik said:
Should, but I don't think it is. Q: why would the OP5 not fast charge over a normal type-c connection if it were standards compliant? Answer: it doesn't comply with standards.
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I don't think your statement is accurate, the newer USB C Power Delivery specs allows voltages up to 20 volts and amperages up to 5 amps, the dash charger specs use 5 volts on 4 amps, well within USB C PD specs. The fact that their technology is proprietary does not mean it's not standards compliant.
There is also the very important difference between voltage and amperage, voltage is pushed to devices so it's always important that what you are using within the voltage required by the device. Amperage on the other hand is pulled by the device so the charger will allow the device to pull as much amperage as it needs as long as it doesn't go over it's own capacity. Think about your standard US outlet, it works at 120 Volts and at either 15 to 20 amps, you can connect as many 120V devices to it as long as you don't exceed its amperage.
That being said, the reason other usb cables don't work on the dash charger block is because the usb A side probably has different resistors, One + cables probably have higher resistors than regular, run of the mill usb C-A cables. That was the issue with the first cables that came out a few years ago, they had pull-up resistors with the wrong Ohm rating.
Here is a link to a PDF file explaining USB C Power Specs, keep in mind though that the eventual idea is to only use USB C-C cables and not the USB C-A cables that are the cause of so much headaches.
HueleSnaiL said:
I don't think your statement is accurate, the newer USB C Power Delivery specs allows voltages up to 20 volts and amperages up to 5 amps, the dash charger specs use 5 volts on 4 amps, well within USB C PD specs. The fact that their technology is proprietary does not mean it's not standards compliant.
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The listed power specs are only half the picture. The negotiation between devices is critical in getting those power numbers. That a OP5 can't draw above 900mA on a fully compliant 3.1 cable from a PD capable Type-C port shows it's not compliant. Its not negotiating power draw the way a standard Type-C device should.
And yes, I've already read all the spec docs. Thanks though.
Elnrik said:
The listed power specs are only half the picture. The negotiation between devices is critical in getting those power numbers. That a OP5 can't draw above 900mA on a fully compliant 3.1 cable from a PD capable Type-C port shows it's not compliant. Its not negotiating power draw the way a standard Type-C device should.
And yes, I've already read all the spec docs. Thanks though.
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The phone itself doesn't have to comply to anything, the chargers and cables do since they are the ones providing the charge. The standards are there to determine thresholds on how much and how little current they can work with. The circuitry on the phone and battery are the ones who tell the charger how much current they need to charge the battery without warming it too much or overcharging it. Different combinations of chargers and cables will give you a lot of different charging speeds but that's because there are so many chargers and cables with different ratings that devices err on the side of caution when they can't recognize the charger that it's being plugged into them. It's kind of a unfortunate thing that companies like Motorola, Huawei, OnePlus and Qualcomm use different charging specs but all of them work within the 15 to 20 watts of power for fast charging, so it's not a really big difference.
The reason for the difference in charging speeds between the dash charger/cable and other chargers is that 1 + charger offloads the current regulation to the charger itself rather than leaving current regulation to the phone, like other fast charging devices, that's why 1 + phones fast charge at cooler temperatures than other fast charging technologies.
Now, why your phone doesn't go above 900mA on a regular cable is beyond me, the first photo I attached is of my phone connected to the dash charger via this cable and the second one is of the same cable connected to this wall outlet.
Elnrik said:
Should, but I don't think it is. Q: why would the OP5 not fast charge over a normal type-c connection if it were standards compliant? Answer: it doesn't comply with standards.
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That's a fallacy. To comply with the standards does not mean, that everything is exactly the same. The USB-standard is a little bit more complex than just "pin 1 of one end has to be connected to pin 1 of the other end". The USB-standard defines what is allowed, so no devices will get damaged and to ensure a "minimum" data and power connectivity of let's say at least USB 2.0.
That's what these cables and chargers offer: They don't violate the USB standards. They allow a data connection with USB 2.0 also for non OP-devices. They also allow "normal power" (5V 500mA). They don't damage other devices. They just "work" as they should. But they offer "additional extras" (dash charging) when all three parts (charger, cable, phone) are compatible.
So they comply with the standards while offering additional features and that means, that other cables/chargers, which also comply with the standards but don't offer the extras, won't be able to dash charge.
Anyone tried to see whether using the oneplus cables on QC devices + QC wall plug supports Quick Charging?
I get 2a off my 3a rated PD c to c cables and 38w PD charger.
The only PD compatible android chipset I know of is made by mediatek at present.