Related
Hello everyone. This is my first post on XDA. I've been lurking for a month or two, and have decided that XDA is the place to be!
I've had my Bolt since April, and like many others I am very frustrated with it. The OTA back in May/June, the one that caused all the random resets, made me start exploring and discovering this thing called 'rooting'. Back then I felt that rooting was a risk I didn't want to take, yet. It reminded me a lot of my Dish Network days, where keeping up with ECM's was an ongoing hell, and I just didn't want to go back there. The OTA after that fixed the resets, and bought some time while I researched rooting.
For the most part, it seems like most of the problems are software related, and the hardware is just being held hostage by crappy coding. BUT, it also seems like most every TBolt owner is on their third device because of hardware issues. I don't want to trade up for a less-than-new device. I did go through an authorized reseller, and bought a year-long, no questions asked warranty, so I can play that card if needed.
My dilemma is that I am ready to root, but if I have bad hardware, I want to return an un-screwed with device. I know that I can unroot, but it would be my luck that it wouldn't go well. And believe me that I considered modding it just to see if it is the hardware or not.
ISSUES: I have various quirky things going on that are obvious software problems, like texts going to the wrong people, butt-dialing (once), CPU lock-ups, erratic scrolling (browsers mostly), software lags, etc.. I think the touch screen, though hardware, is controlled through SenseUI, which has really contributed to my wanting to go with AOSP. The biggest issue I have is with the data connection. I've read a lot of threads on this that have ended in numerous solutions. The most common culprits seem to be the SIM card and the battery cover (idiot design btw). Regardless of whether I am in a good coverage area or not, I have the classic ... 3G..1X..3G..nothing..1X..1X..1X..nothing..3G..nothing..1X..etc. This was really terrible before one of the OTA's, after which it seemed to settle down. I've also experimented with the modem settings, and also the radio settings. CDMA auto PRL works best. Still unsure about the modem settings. Currently I have CDMA only for preferred mode, Enable for Rev A., and Disabled for 1X diversity. I still experiment with these settings, but don't really see much difference. A detailed guide to those settings would be really kick-ass. One day, my phone wouldn't let me make or receive voice calls. Somehow, a setting changed that set it for EVDO only, really strange.
I use Easy-Tether, and have recently been using a Wilson dual-band repeater/amp. I have also found a most excellent app called RF Signal Tracker, which gives me separate RF meters for voice and data, and also shows the state of the SIM card when toggling Airplane mode. I live a little bit out of the city, so I know that serving towers might be causing some headache. With the Wilson, both meters are around -72dbm, which is decent. In town, without the Wilson, it's a little better, around -66dbm. I will stare at this this thing and watch the EVDO meter bottom out at -120dbm and then bounce back. Sometimes it will stay on 1X (for hours probably if I let it), requiring a reboot (or airplane toggle, it varies). Sometimes, while using ET, the signal strength will be awesome, but I get connection errors like it's not even hooked up, or I'll be typing a lengthy post and when submitting I'll get a Connection_Reset error. Sometimes the throughput will blaze (even while streaming), sometimes I'm reaching for a hammer. I have also found that "It works...if i use it," meaning that a data session might start out crappy, but will stabilize. There are times when the data connection is crappy, and rebooting the phone will fix it. And of course, there are many days with no issues at all.
With a hundred different combinations, I can find no rhyme or reason why this handset cannot maintain a data connection with consistency. I'm leaning toward software, but I still can't tell. Others with this problem had their SIM card replaced, which worked, but maybe it was just the battery cover. Is there a fool-proof test I can do that will troubleshoot this? Another possibility might be Big Red Brother compelling me to buy a Nexus.
And: 2.2.1
BB: 1.39.00.0627r
K: 2.6.32.21-g0606a3a
Build: 1.70.605.0
Pete said:
Hello everyone. This is my first post on XDA. I've been lurking for a month or two, and have decided that XDA is the place to be!
I've had my Bolt since April, and like many others I am very frustrated with it. The OTA back in May/June, the one that caused all the random resets, made me start exploring and discovering this thing called 'rooting'. Back then I felt that rooting was a risk I didn't want to take, yet. It reminded me a lot of my Dish Network days, where keeping up with ECM's was an ongoing hell, and I just didn't want to go back there. The OTA after that fixed the resets, and bought some time while I researched rooting.
For the most part, it seems like most of the problems are software related, and the hardware is just being held hostage by crappy coding. BUT, it also seems like most every TBolt owner is on their third device because of hardware issues. I don't want to trade up for a less-than-new device. I did go through an authorized reseller, and bought a year-long, no questions asked warranty, so I can play that card if needed.
My dilemma is that I am ready to root, but if I have bad hardware, I want to return an un-screwed with device. I know that I can unroot, but it would be my luck that it wouldn't go well. And believe me that I considered modding it just to see if it is the hardware or not.
ISSUES: I have various quirky things going on that are obvious software problems, like texts going to the wrong people, butt-dialing (once), CPU lock-ups, erratic scrolling (browsers mostly), software lags, etc.. I think the touch screen, though hardware, is controlled through SenseUI, which has really contributed to my wanting to go with AOSP. The biggest issue I have is with the data connection. I've read a lot of threads on this that have ended in numerous solutions. The most common culprits seem to be the SIM card and the battery cover (idiot design btw). Regardless of whether I am in a good coverage area or not, I have the classic ... 3G..1X..3G..nothing..1X..1X..1X..nothing..3G..nothing..1X..etc. This was really terrible before one of the OTA's, after which it seemed to settle down. I've also experimented with the modem settings, and also the radio settings. CDMA auto PRL works best. Still unsure about the modem settings. Currently I have CDMA only for preferred mode, Enable for Rev A., and Disabled for 1X diversity. I still experiment with these settings, but don't really see much difference. A detailed guide to those settings would be really kick-ass. One day, my phone wouldn't let me make or receive voice calls. Somehow, a setting changed that set it for EVDO only, really strange.
I use Easy-Tether, and have recently been using a Wilson dual-band repeater/amp. I have also found a most excellent app called RF Signal Tracker, which gives me separate RF meters for voice and data, and also shows the state of the SIM card when toggling Airplane mode. I live a little bit out of the city, so I know that serving towers might be causing some headache. With the Wilson, both meters are around -72dbm, which is decent. In town, without the Wilson, it's a little better, around -66dbm. I will stare at this this thing and watch the EVDO meter bottom out at -120dbm and then bounce back. Sometimes it will stay on 1X (for hours probably if I let it), requiring a reboot (or airplane toggle, it varies). Sometimes, while using ET, the signal strength will be awesome, but I get connection errors like it's not even hooked up, or I'll be typing a lengthy post and when submitting I'll get a Connection_Reset error. Sometimes the throughput will blaze (even while streaming), sometimes I'm reaching for a hammer. I have also found that "It works...if i use it," meaning that a data session might start out crappy, but will stabilize. There are times when the data connection is crappy, and rebooting the phone will fix it. And of course, there are many days with no issues at all.
With a hundred different combinations, I can find no rhyme or reason why this handset cannot maintain a data connection with consistency. I'm leaning toward software, but I still can't tell. Others with this problem had their SIM card replaced, which worked, but maybe it was just the battery cover. Is there a fool-proof test I can do that will troubleshoot this? Another possibility might be Big Red Brother compelling me to buy a Nexus.
And: 2.2.1
BB: 1.39.00.0627r
K: 2.6.32.21-g0606a3a
Build: 1.70.605.0
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You need to research cellular technology. All the signal amps in the world aren't going to make for a stable lte signal unless they're smart enough to unpack the packets and lie about transmission data. That said, pretty much all your issues sound software related. Some of what you call hardware problems cannot be randomly duplicated by hardware failure or even accurately diagnosed without some knowledge and experience. Restoring to stock is easy and quite reliable. Some do it once or twice a week. I have guides in my thread.
Thank you for the response. I confirmed that it was software. I took it to the reseller and found out that even though I took two OTAs this year, the radio never updated, and was still on the original from the release. I'm at 2.3.4 now, with a stable radio. Feeling like I'll take that plunge, now that I know the hardware is good.
BB: 1.48.00.0906w_1, 0.01.78.0906w_2
K: 2.6.35.10
Build: 2.11.605.5
I travel a lot, and I'm a minimalist. In other words, I'll travel for a week and take a paper lunch bag as my carry-on with hopes that I can get by with wearing the same outfit the entire week. I don't like carrying a full Navigation system and use my phone. This isn't an 'iPhone lovefest' because honestly, I hate everything about Apple, but I never had problems like this on my iPhone.
My problem though is the GPS. I'm on my third phone because of the GPS. The first phone would never get a lock on GPS. I could be sitting outside with a GPS satellite dedicated to me directly above me, and it would still say "Searching for Satellite". That phone went back and I took on another one.
Second phone had a problem where every now and then it would work, then stop working and never start working again until I rebooted the phone and even then it was questionable if it would start working again.
I just got my third phone a couple days ago. I did a stock root w/ no bootloaders, used Entropy's 11/13 Kernel, then threw on UnNamed ROM. This morning, I started up my car to drive somewhere and decided to test the GPS/Navigation. It took it a couple minutes to find the Satellite, then all seemed to be working ok. Then 20 minutes later it dropped the Satellite and it spent the next 40 minutes of my drive into the office saying "Searching for Satellite" no matter what I did.
This is really important to me as is the ability to tether when I want to (hence the reason I want a phone I can Root). So what can I do. At the moment, I've (In my head, so I could be wrong) narrowed it down to a couple things that could be wrong.
1. It's the ROM that's the problem. Though unlikely, it is a factor and it's me messing with the way the phone was designed and distributed.
2. It's the GPS in general. Seems like 95% of the people on here aren't having problems at all. There does seem to be 5% that seem to be having the same problems I am.
3. My region has crappy Satellite Coverage. Doubtful since my iPhone worked fine, and unless Apple did something amazing like put in an entire dedicated Satellite network to work with Jailbroke iPhones then this kinds of negates this though.
4. My cars are interferring. While this is entirely a possibility (I never do think to test this out in the open not in a car, so i can't say for sure) if it is the problem, then the device goes back as it's much cheaper to get a new device than to replace 2 cars. Again, though, my iPhone never had a problem doing this in these cars.
I love the phone, the speed, the Android OS etc... I don't want to go back to an iPhone because I"ll shoot myself. I just want to be able to have GPS work on this as it's the only hold up on the device. Any help anyone can do?
Take it back then. Honestly you say you have tried 3 different phones and all 3 are broken. I call bull****.
Never had a problem with it.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using XDA App
You didn't mention if you've tried in ANY of the three (3) phones if the GPS worked before rooting?? I'm not saying it's the rooting that's causing the problem, but I'm still running stock on my SGSII and have had no issues with GPS? Not saying it's not possible but three phones is kinda stretching it a bit to all have the same issue.
Yes, I know you took it back to STOCK rom with #3 but who knows if the STOCK ROM is really *STOCK*, you should try a new phone #4 stock without ROOT for at least a day or two to determine if it is a DESIGN/HARDWARE issue rule that out first and then try from there... If this still happens with STOCK phone, you may have to switch to another phone (iphone or otherwise)...
Good Luck!
I just took it back to stock and was going to go outside to see if it had problems finding service. Though as mentioned in many other threads on here, it's not so much it finding you when you're standing still. It's when you're driving the streets of Atlanta that things get crazy.
stalked_r/t said:
I just took it back to stock and was going to go outside to see if it had problems finding service. Though as mentioned in many other threads on here, it's not so much it finding you when you're standing still. It's when you're driving the streets of Atlanta that things get crazy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Stalk,
Keep in STOCK mode and drive around with it and see if this is still an issue then... Also if you have an aluminum case, this has been a known issue where the TARGUS (SP?) korean made BEAUTIFUL/GORGEOUS case affected the GPS antennae. Try it stock no case on the dash away from DIRECT sunslight and begin troubleshooting there...
UNFORTUNATELY it may boil down to Stock and working GPS or ROOT with Tethering... You ***MIGHT*** not be able to do both...
Good Luck...
If you JUST root, it shouldn't affect GPS - but test without rooting first.
And I agree - if you've got a metal case, DITCH IT.
So far, my experience is that the GPS chipset is almost as good as any standalone GPS chipset I've used - Sirf StarIII, MTKv2, STM Cartesio (the latter being the chipset in my Garmin Oregon, the former being chipsets in various Bluetooth dataloggers I've used for hiking). Actually, the GPS in this phone beats the StarIII and is around on par with the Cartesio. So far nothing I've ever used can touch an MTKv2 though.
I'm used to phones having crappy awful GPS chipsets - this is the first device I would ever consider using for geocaching on its own.
Thanks for the replies. I did test just now on the way to and from lunch with stock everything. I do have a case that's part aluminum (Case-Mate). I didn't try it without the case. didn't even think it could affect this.
Running a stock setup, I attempted to get navigation to my lunch location The drive was about 6 miles each way. When I left the office, I started Navigation. It never found a satellite enroute to the restaurant. I never stopped it during lunch from looking, though I was in a building, so i didn't expect it to find anything. On the way home, same status. Searching for satellites. I'm torn. I want this phone bad, love the Dev support, and there's nothing coming from AT&T that makes me want to use an old Blackberry to wait for. I also don't know what I can do to test this further.
On the way home, I'm going to do something very simple. I'm going to wipe the phone. I'm going to skip all steps of the initial setup, just have service and that's it. I'll start navigation and have it direct me home. If it doesn't work, I'll look at my options. If it works, then I know it's an app that's causing the problem.
Unless someone else can think of something for me to try. I wish this just worked like I know it can.
Ok. So an update. Wiped phone, not even associated with Google, Removed my 32 gig SD card for the heck of it, removed the case. Started nav and INSANTLY inside a building it had me pinpointed and was directing me to the next turn point to get home.
Here's the case I have: http://www.case-mate.com/Samsung-Ga...rsion-Barely-There-Brushed-Aluminum-Cases.asp
In one of the reviews, this is said:
As much as I wanted to love this case, I couldn't. I've used many Case Mate products before and I am just disappointed in them for the lack of quality of this case. There is a noticeable issue with the case fitting the bezel on the top right corner of the phone. The lip of the case fails to properly wrap around the front bezel. There is also the connectivity problems that come with this case. GPS has especially weakened with this case on. Other than that, I like the quality material that this case is built out of and feels very sturdy. Unfortunately though as of this writing, this is really the only choice for a decent case for this phone on the market. Time will tell if better choices come about.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm going to keep this setup through tomorrow, then root the phone if there's no difference in performance and all is well. If that works fine for 2 days, I'll throw the Kernel on and throw UnNamed on. If that works, I'll throw the case on and see what happens. I now feel like this could be the problem. Thanks for the thoughts guys. I'll continue my abuse of the "THANKS" button and thank you all.
ride home was flawless. If ride to work tomorrow is flawless, I'll root and flash.
Entropy512 said:
If you JUST root, it shouldn't affect GPS - but test without rooting first.
And I agree - if you've got a metal case, DITCH IT.
So far, my experience is that the GPS chipset is almost as good as any standalone GPS chipset I've used - Sirf StarIII, MTKv2, STM Cartesio (the latter being the chipset in my Garmin Oregon, the former being chipsets in various Bluetooth dataloggers I've used for hiking). Actually, the GPS in this phone beats the StarIII and is around on par with the Cartesio. So far nothing I've ever used can touch an MTKv2 though.
I'm used to phones having crappy awful GPS chipsets - this is the first device I would ever consider using for geocaching on its own.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't gotten enough free time to log the NMEA output, but I don't think our "SirfSTAR IV" chipset is actually even using DGPS/WAAS. Which makes the accuracy it get's even more impressive. The chip definitely supports WAAS, but who knows exactly how the implementation is done between Android & Samsung...
I've also owned a SirfStar III based Bluetooth GPS, a MTK-based GPS (also the best I've found), and several phones with dedicated and integrated GPS chipsets. Have to agree our GS2 is one of the best. I can't exactly wander around the house and have it track my every movement like my Bluetooth pucks can (also having a large ceramic patch antenna helps a bit no doubt), but my GS2 locks fast, and stays locked. What else can you want from a GPS?
Might be worth it to look into WAAS either way though. On any standalone GPS unit, WAAS is the difference between 15-30 meter accuracy, and 3-5 meter (or better) accuracy. That is unless you have a military GPS unit, and the appropriate keys to receive the high accuracy P(Y)/M signals...
If you want to get a good idea of how the GPS is doing, this app will show you the strength of your GPS lock:
https://market.android.com/details?id=com.eclipsim.gpsstatus2
Also, upon further research, the NMEA output is reporting that WAAS/DGPS is not in use.
Example: "$GPGGA,222520.000,4218.460926,N,07111.901869,W,1,06,1.2,77.1,M,-33.8,M,,*53"
Where the bold "1" should be 2, and the null field right before the checksum "*53" should be the age of the DGPS/WAAS info if it were in use.
The chipset in our phones (http://www.csr.com/products/35/sirfstariv-gsd4e) clearly states that it supports WAAS. And since the choice of DGPS or not is solely in the hands of the chip and software (wiring/antenna connection/configuration is irrelevant) perhaps there is a way to enable the DGPS mode? If so, I'm sure we would all see MUCH better position and accuracy information.
WAAS probably requires modifications to the host processing binary (SIRFHost)
BTW, our chip is a GSD4t, not 4e.
I was having problems with my gps losing its lock for the longest time, i got a replacement phone and it started doing it again AFTER root. Im thinking some app might be causing the issue. I read somewhere that ROM Manager can cause issues. I deleted it and so far my gps has been working. I am really baffled on to what can be causing it.
stalked_r/t said:
ride home was flawless. If ride to work tomorrow is flawless, I'll root and flash.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its the case man. Great looking case, but kills the cell signal and terrible GPS. Mine went back after 3 days.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using XDA App
Yep. Ride into work today lost signal once. After letting it sit for a couple minutes, I rebooted. After reboot it worked flawlessly. Definitely the case at this point. Putting Root/Kernel/ROM on it today and seeing how the drive home is. If it's good, then the case can be tossed and I'll find a different one.
Entropy512 said:
WAAS probably requires modifications to the host processing binary (SIRFHost)
BTW, our chip is a GSD4t, not 4e.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good catch. Interesting. Haven't checked out the sources, but I'm assuming all the GPS binaries are blobs? And source is not available?
Always wondered why mobile phones never have WAAS support... course then again, if the hardware was developed in Korea, that would make a little bit of sense. Seeing as there isn't WAAS coverage there, although I do believe there is an alternate DGPS solution for Asia.
i never had a galaxy S so now idea how bad that really was, but it does kinda suck when you need gps and have to have data on to get a lock in a shortish manner (mainly on holiday where i have no data allowance).
any chance that process tech (nodes etc) will have matured to the point where we can have a dedicated gps received in our phones of the quality of what you can get in a tom tom or whatever? no data needed at all to work?
i ask since i use gps on holidays via jogtracker to track where i've been and the train/bus/plane journies from A to B. very cool to look at after the fact - zoom in - and see what you were passing at the time
Well, you could go tell the US government to go modify their satellite so they transfer GPS almanac faster to your device.
Otherwise no, you'll need to get the info from somewhere, either from data network or the satellites themselves.
what? it's nothing to do with the satellites. get a tom tom and they lock on within 30 secs. get an sgs2 without data and it will lock on within 30 seconds, upto 5+ minutes, same with my old desire.
the "get the info from somewhere" line? it comes from the gps sats.
Well it was a joke, but looks like you didn't it. So to simplify the answer:
NO
The answer keeps being NO, but I'm gonna explain a bit further:
First time you boot a Tom Tom, it can stay anything from 5 to 10 minutes out in the sun to catch the goddamn GPS signal. Which is the average time for any GPS to get proper signal the standard manner. What happens the next time? Well, your tom has already the GPS data cached, so unless you move very far from the last point you connected the GPS, it will catch it rather fast (because it's asuming it stays in the same location).
With Android the results are rather mixed. I believe the caching part is done per app basis, which means maybe an app will get a fast lock provided you used it recently, and some other apps may really take the 5 minutes to get the proper location without any aid.
I think an standarized cache in android for any app using the GPS could be a good idea.
But that's my thought.
AGPS is also used as a signal booster in areas of low GPS signal .
Phone GPS does not need AGPS to work .
jje
Also, smartphones generally have weaker GPS antennas than dedicated navigation devices -- a good GPS antenna requires space, something that's at a premium in a smartphone. There are probably also RF issues to contend with.
So a smartphone is more likely to have a poor GPS signal and thus require help from other technologies like AGPS.
than you to the last 3 posters for providing useful responses
As reference, my SGS1 had terrible GPS. If I had no data and I wasn't using wireless networks to help pinpoint my location, the GPS sat would never find me.
In comparison, my SGS2 can usually get a lock on me within 30 seconds without data/wifi on and no assitance from wireless networks.
It may not be as fast or as reliable as a dedicated GPS unit, but it gets the job done when I need to know where the flip i am.
I'd like to keep my Flyer out in my truck as a perm GPS kinda thing. It gets kinda cold up in NY, so I'm concerned on how cold weather tolerant this thing is. The general rule is not to keep electronics outside when its cold, but come on... have you seen newer cars!! I left my Garmin outside 365/year without issue too.
I'd like to know fact from fiction on this. Maybe Myth Busters did something on it, lol.
If the worst thing to happen to my Flyer is a sluggish screen until it warms up, I'd like to keep it in the truck/car most of the time.
i literally never take my first gen ipod video from 2005 out of my trucks glovebox...in NJ, it gets as cold as single digits in the winter, and hits triple in the summer, and it's always in there, and somehow STILL works..and that's a moving hard drive too lol..i'd think as long as it doesn't move from cold to hot temps really quickly, no condensation should form or anything
Lion batteries tolerate cold better than heat but, I would imagine that there is still a potential for damage to occur.
I doubt the other components would be affected much.. but, just keep in mind there is a chance it will be on life support to actually run the rest of it's life.
If I may also go ahead and point this out.. You can get a Garmin with lifetime updates for about 250$ that doesn't require a cellular data connection and would be more reliable for what your buying it for..
Snow_fox said:
Lion batteries tolerate cold better than heat but, I would imagine that there is still a potential for damage to occur.
I doubt the other components would be affected much.. but, just keep in mind there is a chance it will be on life support to actually run the rest of it's life.
If I may also go ahead and point this out.. You can get a Garmin with lifetime updates for about 250$ that doesn't require a cellular data connection and would be more reliable for what your buying it for..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I got the Flyer at BestBuy for $99 a few months ago when they messed up the price. I dont have a need for it in the house because I have a GT10.1. I was close to CraigsListing it for $175, but decided to buy the Flyer car dock and use it as device to leave in the truck for GPS and such.
I dont really want another Garmin if the Flyer can work (w/tethering).
While Li ion batteries tolerate cold temperatures better than some other types, they still drain much more quickly in freezing temperatures. If you are leaving your Flyer in screen-off mode (and not powering it down), then you should be careful its not draining until shutoff in cold temps. Full power cycles are not good for Li ion batteries long term. Its also possible that draining the battery until the device shuts off, will render the battery unable to take a charge. (doesn't happen often, but does happen with Android devices).
That said, I completely understand your feeling about wanting to use an Android device instead of a Garmin for car navigation. I haven't used the "latest" Garmins. But the one I have (couple years old) has a crappy unresponsive touch screen, low resolution, and search function is nothing compared to Google.
The only advantage to a Garmin, is that you don't need a data connection. But of course, there are ways around that with Android also, either downloading Google Map sections, or with 3rd party software.
This doesn't answer your question, but I'll just throw this out there:
I've had the Flyer since it's release date at Best Buy. I bought it with full intentions of leaving it in my truck as a GPS/Media Player/Browser.
I built a console for it that goes between my jump seat and dash (the unit basically sits right under my stereo) and I have left it there plugged into a usb charger and line in on my stereo since the day I bought it (I can easily remove it and have on occasion for a few hours at a time.
I live in West Virginia so it probably doesn't get quite as cold as it does in NY but it can get down below zero at night. We have had a pretty mild winter here but that being said - I have never had a single problem out of it. Neither heat nor cold has seemed to have any affect on it whatsoever.
This is not to say that it couldn't and I've wondered the same as you many times... but just as someone who is doing exactly what you plan to do... I have never had a problem with it.
Hope this helps.
Just an FYI regarding the need for a cellular or wifi signal to use the Flyer or View as a dedicated GPS. With the use of a standalone navigation app such as CoPilot Live (no affiliation) or similar, which include built-in maps, your GPS-enabled unit uses only the internal GPS antenna to set a fix, and the on-board maps to get you around. No data connection is required to constantly update maps, as is the case with Google Maps, which is an 'assisted GPS' (aGPS) program.
Once your nav app is loaded, conserve batt power by activating 'airplane mode,' then under 'Location' enable the 'use GPS satellites' function. Make sure your Flyer is securely mounted on windshield or dashboard with a reasonable view of the sky (that's where the satellites are). You'll have no problems getting around in remote areas not served by Sprint et al. Over the past few years we have used my Evo 4g, Evo 3D and Evo View to get around in Europe in just this manner (no phone calls though, these are not international phones).
Regarding cold temperatures, I would remove the device from your vehicle if sub-zero F readings are expected.
procerum said:
No data connection is required to constantly update maps, as is the case with Google Maps, which is an 'assisted GPS' (aGPS) program.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is not what assisted GPS (aGPS) means. aGPS uses cell tower triangulation to speed up GPS location. Virtually any usage of the phone's GPS involves aGPS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GPS
Also, as I've mentioned previously, Google Maps has the ability to download maps so you can use Maps and Navigation online. You just have to download the maps one area at a time.
I think we're saying the same thing. The Flyer/View will perform GPS (vs. aGPS) duties just fine without tower triangulation (in airplane mode) if your program has built-in maps. No tethering required.
The map caching is in Google Labs, right? I played with that while waiting at an appointment. I tried a Nav to home with it and Nav just spun. I only tried once though. I didn't get a "data connection required" so i know it knew the cached data was there.
I will think about Copilot if GNav doesn't cut it.
I like this thread, lots of good comments!
procerum said:
I think we're saying the same thing. The Flyer/View will perform GPS (vs. aGPS) duties just fine without tower triangulation (in airplane mode) if your program has built-in maps. No tethering required.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, we are not saying the same thing at all. You were saying that Google Maps can't be used without a data connection, since its an "aGPS program", and you seemed to be stating that aGPS had something to do with updating the maps (which it does not). Google Maps is fully functional without a data connection as I stated above.
Also, pretty much any current Android device is going to use aGPS when possible to shorten GPS lock time, regardless of what navigation app you are using (I hate when people call nav software "GPS", as GPS just determines lat/long and elevation and nothing more).
And now you are mis-using the term "tethering". A data connection is not tethering. Tethering is when you share a cell data connection with another device. For instance, tethering a phone to a laptop, means your laptop can use the data connection on your phone.
You really need to get your terms right.
---------- Post added at 08:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:13 PM ----------
kenyu73 said:
The map caching is in Google Labs, right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, that's right. I haven't played around with the feature much myself. But a buddy of mine recently used it during a trip to Europe, so he can navigate the cities on foot without pricey data roaming fees. He said it worked wonderfully.
redpoint73 said:
And now you are mis-using the term "tethering". A data connection is not tethering. Tethering is when you share a cell data connection with another device. For instance, tethering a phone to a laptop, means your laptop can use the data connection on your phone.
You really need to get your terms right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the suggestion, Captain. I am attempting to help the OP, who used the term 'tethering,' which is unecessary, as is a data connection, if you have maps on your device:
kenyu73 said:
I dont really want another Garmin if the Flyer can work (w/tethering).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My comments/methodologies are based upon actual travel experiences with these devices, which I'm sharing with the OP. Why do you feel the need to challenge me? Is this an initiation ritual for a new poster?
procerum said:
Thanks for the suggestion, Captain. I am attempting to help the OP, who used the term 'tethering,' which is unecessary, as is a data connection, if you have maps on your device:
My comments/methodologies are based upon actual travel experiences with these devices, which I'm sharing with the OP. Why do you feel the need to challenge me? Is this an initiation ritual for a new poster?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its all good gents. I just wanted to know if the Flyer was ok out in the cold.
Whether or not I'll use GNav or purchase something like Copilot is another story. I appreciated the comments from everyone.
procerum said:
kenyu73 said:
I dont really want another Garmin if the Flyer can work (w/tethering).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My comments/methodologies are based upon actual travel experiences with these devices, which I'm sharing with the OP. Why do you feel the need to challenge me? Is this an initiation ritual for a new poster?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The person your last response is directed at, and the OP are the same person.
No, I'm not trying to pick on you. But if you post something that is incorrect, people here are going to call it out. Or people here may just want to offer up a different opinion. Which brings me to the following.
I completely sympathize with the OP's desire to not want another Garmin navigation unit. I've found them to be crap. Overpriced for what they can do, not well made, and completely unreliable. I paid $399 for a flagship Nuvi unit, and it broke down a year after I bought it. Luckily, it was still on warranty, and they fixed it. But then the power cable failed soon after (out of warranty). Good thing I found a replacement on eBay for less than $10, because Garmin wants to charge you $30 (for something that will probably fail again in a year or so anyway). Both failures happened while I was traveling, and luckily I had my smartphone and Google Maps as backup.
Meanwhile, I have 3 HTC smartphones, and one tablet, from as far back as 4 years, still running fine as the day they were bought (aside from a few cosmetic blemishes from normal wear and tear). As far as I'm concerned, you are better off using a smartphone or tablet as navigation, with a 3rd party nav app with pre-loaded apps, if losing data connection is a concern.
Having a dedicated nav unit is probably a dying business model. Aside from providing software for smartphones, I don't see much of Garmin's business being around in a few years.
This is true, the last one I purchased was in 2003; it's unlikely that I'll ever purchase a dedicated unit again. The Flyer/View's 7-inch screen and robust build make for an excellent navigation device.
Many jiayu users complain about bad or even unusable GPS, even worse than on other Mediatek devices. We all hope, it's a software issue and can be improved.
Let's collect information here. Please help by summarizing statements from other threads here and include links to the sources. Please stay on topic
General discussion about this device is here
Read a trojan warning here
Maybe I will update this first posting with the most useful information from time to time...
Software issue
I have the very strong and positive feeling, it is a software issue:
When I got my device with the 20140410 ROM, the GPS was really bad. Time to first fix was sometimes fast, sometimes it took more than 5 minutes, and accuracy was really bad most of the time. And as I could see on the map, it was much worse than reported - accuracy as can be seen i.e. in the GPS Test app was many times quite ok, like 4-7 meters, but the position on the map was 50m off, or more. Many times, the GPS continued to advance in the original direction after I stopped or changed direction. Sometimes there was some fixed offset, which stayed the same for 15 minutes.
Or I had a usable fix for a while, then I paused GPS just for a minute, and next try again took very, very long, even with a fresh AGPS download.
And all those problems under clear sky!
I tried many suggestions I found, but nothing really helped.
Then I upgraded to the 20140609-211642 ROM and first didn't notice a difference for some days (but didn't make methodic tests, and didn't use GPS much) and tried some of the suggested fixes again.
I also read about a hardware fix with some photos. I opened my back cover, just to see if my GPS antenna looked the same. I pressed the antenna down with my finger.
Then I noticed my GPS became really good! For a week I really enjoyed usable GPS and was very happy.
I thought it could be bad electric connection of the antenna to the mainboard, which was improved by pressing it down. But now I think it is not related:
After that week I got aware of the trojans in that ROM and restored a backup from before. Back to the April ROM, my GPS was immediately as bad as before! - pressing down the antenna didn't help again.
This unusable GPS annoyed me a lot last weeks and yesterday I decided to try the BORX ROM, but before I started a short test by restoring the 0609 backup where it all worked so well. I didn't have the time to really test (and I'm afraid of enabling internet - of course the 2 trojans are removed, but who knows what else is in there?). But it really looks like it is much better again! (First fix took really long without AGPS, of course, but then it was accurate, and also next tries, hours later, were fast.)
The problem is, I don't know exactly what I did, and don't have much time for experiments. So I don't know if it's just the newer ROM, or other changes. Can someone tell me what config or other files to compare between the 2 backups? I can also post them here.
Alex
My points and observations (I've tried 3-4 different 4.2.2 ROMs and 2-3 different 4.4.2 ROMs).
- GPS for me was about the same regarding its accuracy
- fix time also about the same, a few seconds up to a minute on the clear sky, a few minutes up to "give up" in the woods/buildings
- every ROM had a 1 hour difference bug between GPS reported time and the actual local time
- almost every time accuracy reported by GPS Test is very good (~4-10m)... the real one is much worse, I can confirm what Alex1a noticed. Also, what is really strange, my wife's Galaxy S4 Mini GPS Test accuracy (Snapdragon with Glonass) is significantly worse, yet there is no navigation and positioning issues
- some apps (Google Maps as example) have an arrow pointing your movement direction... this is usualy different than the real direction. Even the map is not rotated well.
I've sent a few emails to the Jiayu people I've found on some official website... but there was no response at all. I know that there is quite a strong community in Spain (Jiayu.es) and in Russia (4pda.ru). I'd also appreciate if anyone native tries to speak to these people regarding our GPS issues.
The good word is, that the GPS works I've done ~1000km over the last weekend and G4S led me to the places I needed. I've used Sygic, that in my opinion has better algorithms handling bad GPS signal. It also shows a nice line to the planned road, when the GPS signal puts you in the adjacent forrest The problem for me is, that the navigation can become frustrating, nervous and annoying. Especially when you have a lot of small and close roads/turns or you need to use it very quickly from the time you start the app.
I am trying to play ingress (a gps game) and half of the time it is unplayable. Ingress also often just quits/crashes without notice, and I think it is because it detects my gps as a fake gps for cheating
When that happened, I restart ingress immediately and sometimes it took more than 5 minutes to get a fix again, even though it worked seconds before.
With 0609 this was much better during that week.
I'm still on 20140609-211642 and GPS is really usable - much better compared to 0410, even inside a building, where 0410 could run hours without getting a fix! Please tell me what to compare between the two backups, to find out what setting makes this difference!
I am not sure, but I think I used MT GPS and faster GPS on both ROMs. Let's find out.
In the EngineeMode I saw some automated tests, and I am willing to do them with both ROMs - if someone exactly tells me how. I am too busy to find out myself...
Alex1a, could you quantify "really usable" when on 20140609-211642 ROM? How long does first fix last (in the streets), and do you have accuracy problems where GPS puts you on a nearby road by mistake?
I'm sorry I can't help more at the moment, I'm still holding off from buying this phone, but GPS is the only real issue I have with it, if I knew it would work correctly I'd get it right away, but everywhere I read problem is the same and since this is one of 2 reasons why I'm changing my current phone it's really important to me that it works fine
[EDIT 2014-Aug-06]
Here is one feedback, anyone else?
srkonus said:
Yesterday i tested GPS with the TeamForce v2 ROM and had no problems. Accurancy of 11 feet - 10 minutes later i wanted to navigate and the phone got no fix.
Navigon and GPS-Test shows nothing and it was not possible to get a fix. So i installed the TeamForce Android L ROM and for now everything seems to be okay again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LuxZg said:
Alex1a, could you quantify "really usable" when on 20140609-211642 ROM? How long does first fix last (in the streets), and do you have accuracy problems where GPS puts you on a nearby road by mistake?
I'm sorry I can't help more at the moment, I'm still holding off from buying this phone, but GPS is the only real issue I have with it, if I knew it would work correctly I'd get it right away, but everywhere I read problem is the same and since this is one of 2 reasons why I'm changing my current phone it's really important to me that it works fine
[EDIT 2014-Aug-06]
Here is one feedback, anyone else?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried the GPS today again under heavy enviroment (inside a building, many metal around) and i got a fix on the window. In use was the TeamForce Kitkat Android L style without any changed (GPS location/time server is spain, i am sitting in germany). I have the feeling that i had only problems if i change it to germany.
The GPS on my old Samsung Galaxy S is more better but the G4S is enough for my use (tracking of running, car navigiation).
srkonus said:
I tried the GPS today again under heavy enviroment (inside a building, many metal around) and i got a fix on the window. In use was the TeamForce Kitkat Android L style without any changed (GPS location/time server is spain, i am sitting in germany). I have the feeling that i had only problems if i change it to germany.
The GPS on my old Samsung Galaxy S is more better but the G4S is enough for my use (tracking of running, car navigiation).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your feedback, looks like this is it.. If you get a chance to test it on road (car navigation or tracking), just to see if you get any issues with "signal lost" or being put on the wrong road / in the fields beside roads and similar that would be great as well, but I'm thankfull for this much as well as it sounds as good news for all owners (and future owners )
LuxZg said:
Alex1a, could you quantify "really usable" when on 20140609-211642 ROM? How long does first fix last (in the streets), and do you have accuracy problems where GPS puts you on a nearby road by mistake?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hard to quantify - I was really happy most of the time in the last weeks. First fix after long time of no use felt a bit long, something like 1-2 minutes, but then "real" accuracy was good and especially getting a new fix after some minutes of standby, was 5-10 seconds, I would say. With the older ROM, it sometimes took 5-10 minutes, even after only seconds of stopped gps.
BUT! yesterday, still on the same rom, I did a bicycle trip. first fix took more than 5 minutes, that was annoying. Then I recorded a track for about an hour. The track was quite accurate and looked good. Then I stopped the tracking and GPS. Only 20 minutes later, under free sky, I didn't get a new fix, no matter what I tried. Some time later, after some reboots it worked again, but was very inaccurate...
srkonus said:
I tried the GPS today again under heavy enviroment (inside a building, many metal around) and i got a fix on the window. In use was the TeamForce Kitkat Android L style without any changed (GPS location/time server is spain, i am sitting in germany). I have the feeling that i had only problems if i change it to germany.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You mean the time server set by "faster GPS" app? I tried that and rebooted, but no positive effect. I'm in germany, too.
Just ordered the phone, when it arrives I'll do as many tests as I can.
In the meantime - I'm assuming you did all this because I've seen this (and similar) solutions all over the forums and YouTube, but let me propose it just the same:
Code:
What you need is Mobileuncle mtk tools,root explorer,gps test download them from play store.
THIS SHOULD BE DONE OUTDOORS.
1. Turn GPS off on your phone.
2. Open Root Explorer and find the mtkgps.dat file in /data or /data/misc
3. Delete mtkgps.dat
4. Reboot phone
5. Open Mobileuncle Tools
6. Tap on 'Engineer Mode'
7. Tap on 'Engineer Mode (MTK)'
8. Scroll across to 'Location'
9. Tap on 'Location Based Service'
10. Tap on 'AGPS' and then make sure 'A-GPS On/Off' is checked
11. Tap on 'EPO' and then make sure 'Enable EPO' is checked
12. Swipe down (notification bar) and turn GPS on
13. Hit back and then tap 'YGPS'
14. Wait until you get position lock (mine took about 6 seconds).
15. This process should create a new mtkgps.dat file.
16. Hit home button and open GPS Test.
17. You should get a position lock reasonably quickly.
Also setting /etc/gps.conf (with any root-supporting text editor) manually to settings such as these:
Code:
NTP_SERVER=europe.pool.ntp.org
XTRA_SERVER_1=http://xtra1.gpsonextra.net/xtra.bin
XTRA_SERVER_2=http://xtra2.gpsonextra.net/xtra.bin
XTRA_SERVER_3=http://xtra3.gpsonextra.net/xtra.bin
INTERMEDIATE_POS=1
ACCURACY_THRES=5000
SUPL_HOST=supl.google.com
SUPL_PORT=7275
SUPL_TLS_HOST=supl.google.com
SUPL_TLS_CERT=/etc/SuplRootCert
PHONE_TYPE=UMTS
(instead of europe in first line you can modify according to lists on this website: http://www.pool.ntp.org/zone/@ )
EDIT: On my old (current) phone, I also have these issues with GPS, and doing above helped a lot, but it seems that I need to repeat some of the steps from time to time. Interesting thing is the delete of mtkgps.dat, sometimes it's enough to turn GPS off, delete it, and turn it back on and go to YGPS to renew the positions, and it works in <10 seconds. We'll see if Jiayu has same or better/worse track record.
Rom: G4SW 20140609-150354
I've installed a new ROM yesterday. Well it's not new, but I haven't met it before.
It is a stock ROM but modified by Jiayu Poland. So it is official one, but nicely cleaned from Chinese apps, keyboard is normal, no troyans... a nice worldwide multi language official ROM that you can use "out of the box".
But what impress' me the most is the GPS. It's the best one I've ever met on Jiayu G4S! This one really works for me! At least at the moment I don't know if it is because it's a fresh installation or the GPS is set for my part of the world. The facts is that the GPS fixes within seconds without 3G and I can get a fix even inside the building. What is more it is the first ROM that the arrow directing my position is aligned properly and it moves exactly as I turn around with the phone.
I've made a simple point to point navigation today morning. A few times it still put me on the adjacent road... but it is still WAY better experience than before. My cursor used to stop when I stopped... that did not happen before, it was always living it's own life
So please give it a try yourself and let me know if I'm dreaming or this one actually works. This is 4.2.2 for Jiayu G4S 2GB/16GB:
http://jiayupolska.pl/download/rom/G4S_20140609-150354_[jiayupolska_PL].zip
Thanks for the info, I just got a new G4S and will try this soon, as GPS is important to me, and I sure don't need trojans and chinese apps
Could you just tell me one thing, does this ROM still have Caller ID bug or is that one fixed as well?
Hmm... hard to tell as I've never experienced that problem. An easy way (step by step) to check that?
Do you get SMS threads for contacts separated because of numebers (not) starting with country code, does your phone show who's calling correctly, etc? But we'll be offtopic here, perhaps just edit your post in the "main" G4S thread
EDIT: Just came back home, downloading it, and erasing original system to factory settings.. will be there soon myself to check GPS, but I won't have SIM in it for a day or so..
EDIT2: installed, got GPS fix in 10 seconds from window, which is good, but I had WiFi running. I'll install iGO soon, and check on the road next day or two
Jiayu's GPS.
In many roms that problem is now fixed. MTK chips normally do not usually behave very well with their gps. But Jiayu suffers a lot from this lack. That is solved by changing a line system / etc / agps_profiles_conf.xml roaming on the file.
roaming = "yes"
And the application of Google Play "FasterGPS" help position quite quickly.
Only then the terminal has no problem to download the epo file and position well satellites.
Greetings.
Sorry, but that's just theory. In practice people claim that GPS is fixed in thier ROM but it did not work for me. GPS I mean not only the fix time but also accuracy.
Apart of the ROMs I've tried a few additional apps and fixes... with not much improvement.
The ROM quoted by me it's the first one that GPS works out of the box, without any additional fixes and apps and on GPS antenna only (no AGPS at all).
If anyone do some GPS navigation tests please try both with mobile network assistance (AGPS) and without it.
I'm not sure if I'm right, but I have a feeling that with a ROM from post #11 the navigation apps work better without that assistance, with the GPS antenna only.
A few days now and I'm still amazed with that ROM regarding the GPS usage. Anyone unsure I recommend to give it a try
Doman said:
I've installed a new ROM yesterday. Well it's not new, but I haven't met it before.
It is a stock ROM but modified by Jiayu Poland. So it is official one, but nicely cleaned from Chinese apps, keyboard is normal, no troyans... a nice worldwide multi language official ROM that you can use "out of the box".
But what impress' me the most is the GPS. It's the best one I've ever met on Jiayu G4S! This one really works for me! At least at the moment I don't know if it is because it's a fresh installation or the GPS is set for my part of the world. The facts is that the GPS fixes within seconds without 3G and I can get a fix even inside the building. What is more it is the first ROM that the arrow directing my position is aligned properly and it moves exactly as I turn around with the phone.
I've made a simple point to point navigation today morning. A few times it still put me on the adjacent road... but it is still WAY better experience than before. My cursor used to stop when I stopped... that did not happen before, it was always living it's own life
So please give it a try yourself and let me know if I'm dreaming or this one actually works. This is 4.2.2 for Jiayu G4S 2GB/16GB:
http://jiayupolska.pl/download/rom/G4S_20140609-150354_[jiayupolska_PL].zip
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello,
Good News.
Can you install Xposed and gravitybox in this ROM?
Roms with GPS fixed.
Hello everyone! Apart from the many roms (and very good all) that ye can download, there is a website where there for our G4S and the G3S. androidteamforce.es
I say this because there all roms have fixed the gps well and are very stable. And even more so those in kitchen. If you want to try, you know (are also in needrom). While development is Spanish, the website is translated into English as well.We recommend them! I'm using the AOSP v2 with fixes memory and root, and I'm doing everything works perfectly, even Titanium. The GPS usually takes me ten radars detected, seven or eight. A marvel.
A greeting.
Doman said:
If anyone do some GPS navigation tests please try both with mobile network assistance (AGPS) and without it.
I'm not sure if I'm right, but I have a feeling that with a ROM from post #11 the navigation apps work better without that assistance, with the GPS antenna only.
A few days now and I'm still amazed with that ROM regarding the GPS usage. Anyone unsure I recommend to give it a try
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm... now I'm not sure if I'm seeing things either, but you could be right. It took me few days to transfer 100% to new phone so I was testing it on and off. Always with WIFI/3G turned on. While I got fix quickly, precision was a bit off, well.. up to 40-50 meters sometimes, enough to cause problems.
Today on my way from work I've turned on tracking, was still for a minute or so, and than started ride on a bike. Than minute or so later I remembered your advice, and turned off all data (Wi-Fi/3G) and continued. Now I'm looking at a chart, and first part of the ride looks terrible, like I was a crazy bug flying all over the place (with speeds up to 80km/h), and than suddenly I'm straight on course, with normal data being recorded and all the way to the finish line. From the tracking side, first 3,5 minutes I was off by soooo much, but from then on I had a positional error of margin of about 5 meters, no more (other side of the road etc.), and kept on going like that for 14 more minutes.
Since I'm biking a lot, well, when it's not raining, I'll do some more tracking, and I'll track test routes with car as well. I'll try not to use WIFI/3G at all during tracking, and we'll see if data will be consistent. I know that GPS on this ROM isn't perfect, as can be seen from todays 80km/h data and some extra 2km while I was mostly standing, but let's see if indeed data is being a culprit for GPS errors. Who knows, maybe the same way as Bluetooth interferes with Wi-Fi / Wi-Fi Display, maybe Wi-Fi and/or 3G causes malfunctions in GPS data, or somehow chip uses Wi-Fi positioning in addition to GPS causing it to add wider errors. We'll see, so far this is just a theoretic thing, I'm waiting for at least 4-5 good rides till I'm satisfied