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The Cingular forums are now shutting down discussion re the new ROMS ... nice ... just trying to keep us from helping each other out (you would think it would be to their benefit, so folks don't bug their non-existent customer service)
see here for all the gory details.
This is getting more and more ridiculus by the day
Hallllllo M$ and providers. when we buy a device we ALREDY get a licenced WM, what's your problem???????????????????????????????????????
weinson said:
The Cingular forums are now shutting down discussion re the new ROMS ... nice ... just trying to keep us from helping each other out (you would think it would be to their benefit, so folks don't bug their non-existent customer service)
see here for all the gory details.
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Click to collapse
the thread has been resurrected for the time being...no idea how long that will last though.
This is just like Cingular, I have been told that this update would be out since Dec. by Cingular sales and it never has. We cannot help it if Cingular is so slow on getting updated services out. If they would put more effort in service and less on what they are going to call them selfs maybe they could supply better service. I have 19 cingular accounts and may move all of them if they don't get there act together.
Steven -
Do what my wife did, she is part of the State of FL gov contract on Cingular and she has a fair bit of power in moving accounts so she basically said if you can't support your gear with updated ROMs maybe she would move accounts somewhere else.
I doubt they care but who knows...
so many dumb-ass flashed their phones w/o reading the instructions, bricked their phones and start to call Cingular/ATT for help/repair/replacement. Next thing we know, MS is trying to remove all ROMs, ATT removing thread about new ROMs....
That's y we should make this community go underground, ban the suckers who don't read, link ROMs to rapidshare or other similar sites instead of this site's FTP server.
It's sad to see we have to remove the ROMs but I wouldn't blame MS or ATT for asking XDA-developers to do so.
Oh, btw, if you guys care go sign the petition, show us some supports even if we dont get what we want.
peace.
It's the War on Common Sense. And since all of us are a minority here, ignorance and misinformation prevail.
The main reason Big Business does this is because the executives are a much older generation that is scared and terribly confused by the Internet. So to them, we're all looking to ruin their business by making their phones work in ways they didn't intend for them to be used. What they don't know is, our solutions are much better than the ones they provide (hence the void we're filling by being here, supporting, and working out their phones for free) and if they were to release even just half of the ROMs the XDA community cooked up, they'd have a much happier customer base.
steven814 said:
This is just like Cingular, I have been told that this update would be out since Dec. by Cingular sales and it never has. We cannot help it if Cingular is so slow on getting updated services out. If they would put more effort in service and less on what they are going to call them selfs maybe they could supply better service. I have 19 cingular accounts and may move all of them if they don't get there act together.
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Cingular/AT&T is pretty much the only carrier with even a _leaked_ rom... so how are you going to say that they're slow? They're actually ahead of the curve, in my opinion.
The 8525 came out in November. I'm pretty sure that there must have been some miscommunication if you recall someone in December told you the Rom would be out tomorrow (or any specific immediate timeframe). "Soon" is not necessarily "one month" or less. I think sometimes we hear and preceive what we WANT to be the truth based on what we actually _did_ hear. I mean, as far as I can tell, HTC just released the 3.3 rom to carriers a matter of weeks ago. Cingular has been working on things other carriers aren't doing, too (PTT, Cingular Video, etc.) So they're putting more into the rom than most of our European counterparts need to (with the exception of video calling... yet.)
I guess what I'm saying is that we, as enthusiasts, expect more than the average customer. And as for Cingular / AT&T, of course they don't want to be providing support for an unofficial and likely unfinished rom. Honestly, having inexperienced and impatient Cingular customers reading about this leaked rom and trying to put it on their devices prematurely would certainly cause a terrible amount of problems. Again... it's _leaked_ and _unofficial_, so they should not feel like they have to support it.
Just my 2/3 of a nickel.
GliTCH82 said:
It's the War on Common Sense. And since all of us are a minority here, ignorance and misinformation prevail.
The main reason Big Business does this is because the executives are a much older generation that is scared and terribly confused by the Internet. So to them, we're all looking to ruin their business by making their phones work in ways they didn't intend for them to be used. What they don't know is, our solutions are much better than the ones they provide (hence the void we're filling by being here, supporting, and working out their phones for free) and if they were to release even just half of the ROMs the XDA community cooked up, they'd have a much happier customer base.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I disagree. I believe the truth is if they released half the roms on here, they're customers WOULD be confused, scared, and lost because they have no idea what rom they should be running. They'd have no idea why something doesn't work perfectly on one rom and better on another. Or why one radio may or may not be better. Think about how many people on here aren't reading everything they need to and bricking or nearly bricking their devices. And these are the ones SEEKING the information. The average 8525 user on Cingular's network isn't quite as interested in this stuff as we are here.
Knowledge is power, but unstable power is chaos.
Think about it.
Xda-Developers is a great source for those seeking to know more about their devices than just its typical uses. But anyone who really wants the knowledge will seek it out and find it (just as we all did). Throwing an incomplete rom at the average lawyer who needs Microsoft Direct Push and not much more is likely to cause more problems than it's worth for AT&Tingular as well as for us (because we'll be the ones trying to clean up the mess).
I think I should sign off on this before I infuriate some of those out there who just want to vent their frustration. And we all know the company with the dollars is always a great target to do that.
Does't surprise me in the slightest.
I am sure many OEMs and phone companies are sick of people bricking their phones and claiming warranties (of course they never admit to using cooked ROMs or even trying to upgrade them - 'Just woke up one morning and it wouldn't boot up').
I enjoy this forum too but don't tell me it doesn't encourage people to do things they shouldn't, and are not willing to take responsiblity for.
esseff said:
I enjoy this forum too but don't tell me it doesn't encourage people to do things they shouldn't, and are not willing to take responsiblity for.
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I have to disagree with that statement... I wasnt aware that giving warnings to the users that flashing their phone could brick it and that they need to read and make sure they fully understand what they are doing before they do it was encouragement... I know that when i came to this board and saw the warnings about flashing cooked roms it freaked me out.. i was registered for several months before i ever made a post, spent countless hours reading all the threads to make sure i fully understood my device before i did anything to it.. its the people that dont read and brick their phone that want to come back and blame us for their mistake.. This is a developers board and quite frankly alot of us go out of the way of development to help people in need... we especially go above and beyond any kind of help that you would recieve from your provider
My 2c
I have to agree with shogunmark. I know I made very sure I read every last thread and wiki before I attempted anything as rash as upgrading a Radio stack. This was because of my fear of bricking the unit, because so many people warned it could. I was even willing to endure the mass "RTFM" and "RTFW" flaming if i wanted to make sure I understood everything correctly before risking my device.
I believe the largest part of this community are users that gather here in the spirit of sharing the knowledge about the device to encourage greater growth of the community- the more people, the more mods & hacks & cracks and experiences will become part of the knowledge base.
yet im still trying to figure out how "MAY BRICK YOUR DEVICE" warnings are encouraging...
Come on guys!
Sure there are countless warinings but simply the enthusiasm and excitement amongst the experienced crew, when a new possibliity appears (GPS, WM6, AKU this, AKU that) causes less experience people to get caught up in it.
I'm not for one minute discouraging XDA developing, just TAKE RESPONSIBLILITY IF YOU BRICK YOUR DEVICE AND DON'T GO CRYING TO THE OEM OR TELCO FOR WARANTY. Pay for your mistake and buy another.
I have seen, on this forum people advising others to go back to their supplier with bricked devices and try to get a warranty. It is hard for the supplier to argue with someone who says their device 'Just stopped working', when infact they bricked it, and in the spirit of good customer relations they often replace it. Why wouldn't suppliers be negative toward forums like these when they are placed in this situation.
Sigh... I've been told that HTC's single greatest returned device is the Wizard followed closely by the Hermes. Reason: bricked.
We post the warnings, but plenty of people don't take the time to fully understand then brick their devices anyway (hermes is especially bad in this respect). Then they try to return them.
In many ways, this is the manufacturer fault b/c they are trying to thwart users who try to upgrade or change their devices. Hermes development feels like spy vs. spy sometimes as we crack something and then the next bootloader/radio bootloader comes out. Consequently pre sspl hermes flashing was damn near rocket science. Problems were rampant. Heck, I even saw one poster try to flash the original signed_nbh into the OS area with the 1.01MFG bootloader
They're all gonna try it. There's no minimum IQ required to be a member here.
Ideally, we need to find a way to bring any HTC device back to life from brick status. It's only corrupted memory after all. If the correct bytes are written, the software works. When I did SE phone hacking, there were such devices. Because of this, users with bricked phones could take them to their nearest SE phone center and they would re-flash and un-brick (for a price of course).
This ridiculous swapping of bricked devices is what needs to change. Posters need to take financial responsibility for phones they brick. HTC needs to make their hardware flashing system available to Operators at phone centers.
Unfortunately, this won't be the case. Instead, they'll go after us because they can see an ROI impact in terms of bricks. What they can't see is the intangible increase in sales that we stimulate or the intangible loss of future revenue that shutting us down represents.
Sign the petition. Get your friends to sign it. Get it posted on other forums. Get it into the news. Operators and M$ need to be able to see this intangible.
on the other hand with the hermes and returns... we just got to a point to where we could brick them less than a month ago... most of the returns before then was by manufacturer fault, i know this because i was one of them, i had a ton of bad blocks in the wrong spot....
its to bad we dont have an easy rom kitchen for these.. something that would make it damn near impossible for the person who cant read to brick their device.. i dont know.. im tired and going back to bad, my post isnt making much sense to me right now
but i do agree with you sleuth!
Wow... check out the attitude here...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=294365
Kinda proves my point.
Add a success story here - mainly because I am competent enough to read and ask the right questions when there was vague information.
I am not new to flashing/modding, but the Hermes definately takes it to a new level.
The difference with me, should I ever brick my device - I would just deal with it. I came here with the understanding that the tools available to us come with an increased risk should you not actually understand what you are doing. You need to be aware that you should own up to the possible mistakes and not try to send a bricked device back for warranty....
Two individuals who make this place so great - Pof and Sleuth. Pof has done such a great job with the wiki and his tools - all you need to do is take a few days to read about the device and the steps you need to make. Sleuth brings a different element (and his programs) to the forums and has the patience to point questions to the right areas of the wiki.
My advice - if you plan on unlocking/upgrading take at least a week and read the wiki. Make sure you have all the pieces needed to complete what you want to do. Sync your device and backup all your info - be prepared to hard reset and start from scratch - twice in some cases.
Set aside plenty of time that your phone will be down during this process.
This site is by far the best there is - it's a shame that people rush into things some times.
Sleuth255 said:
Ideally, we need to find a way to bring any HTC device back to life from brick status. It's only corrupted memory after all.
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Click to collapse
HTC should put JTAG out in its new models
Seriously, it's a big flaw that every official ROM image overwrites th bootloader, even with the same version. The whole firmware history teaches that the bootloader should not be touched by end user.
So, the solution is to make custom ROMs flashable by parts, w/o affecting the bootloader. This should prevent bricking... does not revive existing bricks though...
But your overall point is good: manufacturers get angry because of a lot of returns, and care shell be taken to calm them down.
on another note about the cingular boards... i got banned there was a thread about the lack of good moderation in the HTC board over there, i spoke my piece and got banned... it wasnt even bad, just offered some suggestions.. so much for contructive criticism and free speech..
Well I was just reading a thread about someone buying a Vibrant from someone who "found" it and this person was looking for a way to bypass WaveSecure.
We all know that with a little know how that it is possible with Recovery Mode.
The question I have is there a way to prevent even a Recovery Mode reflash? To absolutely stop someone from touching the ROM at all?
I know the Security Apps out right now can track you from GPS, wipe the phone remotely, etc... But can it stop someone from reflashing a ROM?
If there is a app out there like that please let me know, but if not, what would it take to create such a app.
What are YOUR thoughts??
What if this happens and then you brick for some reason need to reflash and it's locked. I would just bank on the fact that most people think that it's a "Droid" phone and don't know ****.
I was hoping for a question like that.
Either there is a security measure which at some point of using Recovery that it asks for a password or pin. Something that will allow you to access it securely and nobody else.
Yes, it is a droid, very true, but how many droids are out there now, are going to be out there, and with the new laws that allow you to unlock your device and pretty much do anything with it, more and more people are going to start playing around. Not only that, there is always somebody who knows someone, you know.
Personally myself, I would feel secure with having an implementation like this, everything else is pointless.
It's sort of like having a anti virus on your computer but not scanning for rootkits, only viruses.
The idea of that app sounds nice and all that but I seriously doubt that the average Android user would know about flashing ROMs and all that. But if it does get into the hands of somebody that does know how to do it then it can be a problem.
jzero88 said:
Yes, it is a droid, very true, but how many droids...
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First of all these are android devices / android phones. I was mocking the people who call these phones "droid" phones.
Now on topic: All it takes to break this security is for one person to say, "I forgot my password on for the ==sUPERlOCKER== what do I do to get access?" Then all your worry is for nothing again.
What has been done can always be undone.
Sure, unlike me, I never forget my passwords. Especially for something this serious.
Second, of course something can be undo, but to what extent, after hearing your lack of concern makes me think you don't even have a lock on your phone
Again, would you rather have a password like "1234" that is easily guessed, or would you rather have something like "00LowJK54889$3%#". It's really a matter of personal security.
You sound like one of those people who would have Security Cameras, but never has the DVR on to record anything.
I'm saying your idea is bad. I have illustrated why. You have no counterpoint other than that I am 'relaxed' about my phone security.
How about this, keep your phone in your pocket or hand? 100% security.
This should be in general and not development
Sent from my Vibrant using xda app
This has been discussed a few times, you could compile your own recovery image and program in a password while at it, or you can accept that 90% of theives(or people who would find your phone) cannot get to recovery. If I found a phone then yeah I would go straight to recovery but I'm not your average user.
Sent from my T-Mobile myTouch 3G Slide using XDA App
I'm saying your idea is bad. I have illustrated why. You have no counterpoint other than that I am 'relaxed' about my phone security.
How about this, keep your phone in your pocket or hand? 100% security.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First, my idea is not bad, give it time, you will see.
Second, I do not have a counterpoint because my main point is stated in the first post. Read again.
Third, I don't care if you are relaxed about your security or not. This post obviously is not for you, another negative person who stunts development if they do not see a logical use for themselves.
I wish you the best and hope that you do not need to ever use such a tool or measure. Take it easy.
This has been discussed a few times, you could compile your own recovery image and program in a password while at it, or you can accept that 90% of theives(or people who would find your phone) cannot get to recovery. If I found a phone then yeah I would go straight to recovery but I'm not your average user.
Sent from my T-Mobile myTouch 3G Slide using XDA App
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On the Vibrant forums? Haven't seen anything yet.
Also, I am not betting on a thief or someone who found the phone to be able to get to recovery, I'm worried about who these people might know. It's surprising to see how many people out here think that they are the only person in a 20 mile radius who knows how to do such mods... Maybe it's just the people I know but I know quite a few people who can easily google and find a way, easily.
I can bet that 90% of people here do not know anything except following directions, no pun intended to those who do. I definitely do not know half of what I should know, but again, is it really that hard?
Your own logic defeats what you are saying here. Don't you understand OP?
If there is a security measure, there will be a work around it? So why have more than ONE thing for the uneducated masses and stop there?
If the person who steals your phone knows someone who could get around WaveSecure, or any other security application. Then that same person can get around ANY AND ALL other types and forms of theft deterrent. If not, they will know someone, ask on forums, etc. UNTIL they gain access.
zaduma
Then why have any security on anything at all?
You my friend make no sense, good day!
jzero88 said:
Then why have any security on anything at all?
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Click to collapse
Ok, I will lay it out as simply as I can man. I do not want to argue, but you are missing why this is impossible to accomplish.
The existing security layers can be compromised by lets say... 10% of the population, seeing as most people who are thieves do not talk about it, most people dislike thieves.
So effectively 90% of people will be stopped dead in their tracks by having WaveSecure, etc.
The 10% who are not stopped however, can not be stopped by any means. None. They are the people who read these forums, have technical ability, etc.
Therefore having one layer of security means 90% of people are stopped from using your device. But it has ridiculously diminishing returns. With two layers, say stopping access to recovery, 10% are now stopped. Just boot into download mode and flash with odin. Stop download mode? First of all how? Second of all, there has to be a workaround for people who forget their passwords and stuff. And guess what, those 10% will know about that as well.
So please, address these issues and resolve them somehow, and your idea has merit. Without doing so you are wasting your time.
Also, much to your liking I will assume, I will no longer be posting in this thread due to your constant elevation of flaming.
Any security pro will tell you, if you have physical access to a computer, you can make it usable for you. The only real security you can hope for its to prevent access to your data by the thief. That's what full disk encryption and such is about. For our phones, we could achieve this much with a custom kernel perhaps, but how would you enter the password? No keyboard at that level.
The cellular providers can prevent the stolen phone from getting on their networks, and some do, but that's about as far as it goes.
Its like having a lock on your front door.. Its only going to keep out the honest people... Thats what they are made for, honest people, because dishonest people will just kick the door in.. And the good thieves can pick a dead bolt...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I'm starting to think this request/question is for the wrong crowd, truly it is...
If you build it they will hack it... Hands down... Look at the droid x, the unhackable phone, it took 5 weeks..
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I agree, never did I not. This thread wasn't to debate whether a security measure could be hacked or not, the thread was created to see what we could do to implement such a measure.
I am totally aware of that. I know that if there is a will there is a way.
PERSONALLY, that is something I wouldn't mind having. Though some of you disagree and have a right to your own opinion, that is beyond the point. I am trying to see if a) is it possible. and b) what it would take to do so, and possibly c) if anyone was interested in trying or helping out.
So feel free to express your opinion. Mine is that you can never have enough protection cuz I would never bring a knife to a gun fight. But that's just me...
BTW, those who hacked the unhackable phone I would consider being part of the .01%.
jzero88 said:
I'm starting to think this request/question is for the wrong crowd, truly it is...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you mean people that know how things work, I suppose. It's the same problem as drm. When you understand why that's not possible, you will understand this. Read up on jtag as well, you can't protect against that. 90% is about as good as it gets.
Hey all,
I've been a lurker for a while, been looking for a way to encourage the now Google-owned Motorola Mobility to unlock their bootloaders much like HTC has wisely done, but it's becoming more and more obvious to me that they don't care about the "minority" of us that actually feels as though we are entitled to full admin rights on our phones that we either paid a ton of cash for, or signed a lengthy contract to obtain. Verizon is the one blocking it? HTC found a way, and so can Motorola Mobility...that is cop-out.
My proposal is that there be an effort to unlocked the bootloader, I am not some expert programmer, and I am open to whatever will help the cause. I know there was a bounty on it, but to me this isn't about money, I'll donate time, money, information ripped from my phone if it, in some way, contributes to unlocked that bootloader. Even if you need my unused CPU cycles to calculate things, I don't care, just tell me what I can to do help, because I am sick of not being able to use my phone to it's fully potential.
Maybe I am being naive, but I believe if we all worked together we could accomplish this goal. If you agree, please, let's organize and figure this out!
-Joshua
I love optimism
I'm down with the movement...
This phone does have mad potential to be so limited compared to other phones.
I just can't believe that we are running an unofficial, incomplete version of CM7 and it runs smoother than stock Blur.
Is that telling you something about Motorola?
Do you guys think Google will make that decision for Motorola or will Moto stay the same?
Sent from my Android
Worth a try...
Re: Google changing Moto policy
I don't know so much about Google changing Motorola's stance on the locked bootloader, we've tried petitioning the company themselves, but have we tried petitioning Google? Or maybe it's too soon, maybe they are working on it right now? Hard to tell, and I don't want to put pressure on Google too soon especially if they are trying diligently right now to do the right thing.
But the above poster is right, cracking it ourselves is definitely worth a try. I have contacts (unfortunately know inside Motorola), I know people with lots of knowledge on encryption, I'll be honest one of my friends does have a knack for the impossible, but this would be too much for one lone person. I also have a few computers in the house, to donate computing power. None above 5 GB of RAM unfortunately, but my friend with all of that know-how does also have a synchronous 20/mbit up/down connection to the net, if that helps, and I have another friend that is the linux admin at a an unnamed private university in Durham that might could lend a hand in some way.
We have the resources, we just need to pool them.
Someone with the realistic technical know-how, just tell us where to begin, and the shortest path to getting to our goal and we'll do all we can to contribute!
Thanks for understanding and not just writing this off as a pipe-dream...because I know if we work together we can accomplish almost anything.
-Joshua
spyda256 said:
I don't know so much about Google changing Motorola's stance on the locked bootloader, we've tried petitioning the company themselves, but have we tried petitioning Google? Or maybe it's too soon, maybe they are working on it right now? Hard to tell, and I don't want to put pressure on Google too soon especially if they are trying diligently right now to do the right thing.
But the above poster is right, cracking it ourselves is definitely worth a try. I have contacts (unfortunately know inside Motorola), I know people with lots of knowledge on encryption, I'll be honest one of my friends does have a knack for the impossible, but this would be too much for one lone person. I also have a few computers in the house, to donate computing power. None above 5 GB of RAM unfortunately, but my friend with all of that know-how does also have a synchronous 20/mbit up/down connection to the net, if that helps, and I have another friend that is the linux admin at a an unnamed private university in Durham that might could lend a hand in some way.
We have the resources, we just need to pool them.
Someone with the realistic technical know-how, just tell us where to begin, and the shortest path to getting to our goal and we'll do all we can to contribute!
Thanks for understanding and not just writing this off as a pipe-dream...because I know if we work together we can accomplish almost anything.
-Joshua
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i love your optimism i have some old pms that may help with the effort
SHA-1 brute force can be cracked for around $2 of Amazon cloud computing service.
http://www.geek.com/articles/news/r...for-2-10-with-amazons-cloud-service-20101122/
Isn't boot loader use SHA-1 encryption?
(of course, the key may be much longer, but it may not be impossible for cheap. I say try to pool together like $100 and try Amazon cloud computing a try?)
Re: Amazon
hpark21:
I like the way you're thinking, does anyone else think this might be a good call? I know there was a bounty of around ~$800 somewhere, so I doubt if all of us who rightfully were promised and unlocked bootloader wouldn't mind pooling a bit of money for the computing power, hell I myself would give $50 to the effort if we knew it was a viable solution.
Other thoughts?
Also, ztotherad, if you could send me those PMs maybe we can sift through those and see if there are some other avenues, nothing is off the table at this point.
thanks again for coming together on this, that is the true meaning of community.
spyda256 said:
hpark21:
I like the way you're thinking, does anyone else think this might be a good call? I know there was a bounty of around ~$800 somewhere, so I doubt if all of us who rightfully were promised and unlocked bootloader wouldn't mind pooling a bit of money for the computing power, hell I myself would give $50 to the effort if we knew it was a viable solution.
Other thoughts?
Also, ztotherad, if you could send me those PMs maybe we can sift through those and see if there are some other avenues, nothing is off the table at this point.
thanks again for coming together on this, that is the true meaning of community.
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Click to collapse
i can def send you them, idk how much help theyll be
Uh, I think it's already been established that brute forcing it is impossible.
Stuckinabox said:
Uh, I think it's already been established that brute forcing it is impossible.
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In one of the many threads concerning bootloader unlocks, I believe the chances of us finding it were determined to be 1mill:1. It would take us over a decade to manually come up with the key. I don't want to kill confidence, but I'd like to keep things relatively rational.
Sent from my MB870 using xda premium
Stuckinabox said:
Uh, I think it's already been established that brute forcing it is impossible.
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Click to collapse
it's been established that brute forcing is nearly impossible, not completely impossible
it is something that would take an insane amount of resources to accomplish , and/or time ,
it would really come down to "how lucky are we?" really, as in::: how lucky are we that we stumble across or know a genius that can crack it, stumble across needed files, etc...
good luck to all who try, I wish I could do anything to get us there, but I don't know the first thing when it comes to this stuff, don't give up the dream!
Basically, what it comes down to is:
Find out what their hash key is. (encrypted password)
Then, try to go through all valid characters and see whether the input matches the output hash.
If one is lucky and they used short enough password, then it will be quick to find.
If unlucky and they used really long password, then the answer is that we won't be able to find it in REASONABLE time. (I would say 1-2 months to be reasonable - at $2/hr, it would cost $48/ day).
Only issue is when do we stop?
hpark21 said:
Basically, what it comes down to is:
Find out what their hash key is. (encrypted password)
Then, try to go through all valid characters and see whether the input matches the output hash.
If one is lucky and they used short enough password, then it will be quick to find.
If unlucky and they used really long password, then the answer is that we won't be able to find it in REASONABLE time. (I would say 1-2 months to be reasonable - at $2/hr, it would cost $48/ day).
Only issue is when do we stop?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There was some kind of crazy algorithm applied to each character to generate the correct item for each number of the key, correct? We would have to come up with that too?
Sent from my MB870 using xda premium
THANK YOU! Finally ... a revived movement. I pledged $100 on another thread and I'm good for putting it toward an unlocked bootloader again!
To learn from one of the most influential groups of our generation ... anonymous utilizes botnets to pool computing resources ... if we get a tool that could function similarly, could we not pool 1000s of computers together to crack it faster? It would make what is not feasible for a small set of computers to do... feasible. If all most users have to do is download a tool that gives us access to processing power and bandwidth ... users will download the hell out of it.
Count me in.
[ sent from _base2 ]
Hope
I understand doubters, and odds are likely against us, but that's ok, no one person can do it, and maybe not just one method, but somehow we WILL get to our goal. Whether Motorola capitulates or we find a method to crack it, we will not have this awesome hardware go to waste.
I am not generally a "black hat" kind of person, but in this case we are in the right so far as I am concerned (please don't quote DMCA BS to me, lol) because they made a promise to their customers, and it will be kept, whether they like it or not.
So, I am with the above poster that mention he didn't know quite where to start, or where we have already made progress, but if someone can help us out, explain the process, we figure out how to move forward. (Please forgive the run-on sentence).
I've minimal experience programming, only VB.net, C++, and a bit of Java from college, and I do tier 2 desktop support for a bank these days, but on my off time I'd love to spend it on something worthwhile, all of you deserve this, and we'll make it happen.
Maybe it's the troubleshooter in me that sees the problem and says "oh no, there's a way, we just need to find it". I have a colleague, the one I spoke of before, he has a knack for doing incredible things, so once we have a breakdown of what we need to do, perhaps he can be of help.
So my friends, where do we go from here?
spyda256 said:
I understand doubters, and odds are likely against us, but that's ok, no one person can do it, and maybe not just one method, but somehow we WILL get to our goal. Whether Motorola capitulates or we find a method to crack it, we will not have this awesome hardware go to waste.
I am not generally a "black hat" kind of person, but in this case we are in the right so far as I am concerned (please don't quote DMCA BS to me, lol) because they made a promise to their customers, and it will be kept, whether they like it or not.
So, I am with the above poster that mention he didn't know quite where to start, or where we have already made progress, but if someone can help us out, explain the process, we figure out how to move forward. (Please forgive the run-on sentence).
I've minimal experience programming, only VB.net, C++, and a bit of Java from college, and I do tier 2 desktop support for a bank these days, but on my off time I'd love to spend it on something worthwhile, all of you deserve this, and we'll make it happen.
Maybe it's the troubleshooter in me that sees the problem and says "oh no, there's a way, we just need to find it". I have a colleague, the one I spoke of before, he has a knack for doing incredible things, so once we have a breakdown of what we need to do, perhaps he can be of help.
So my friends, where do we go from here?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sir, did you get my pms?
Re: PMs
Nope, just saw them, thanks for that!
This is a new concept to me. There are no PCs that "just don't like Windows". With the same hardware, a PC will run the same software at the same speed with the same stability. All SGS II i777's have the same hardware, don't they?
There are of course variations in the quality (=bin) of some components, but that just sets voltage boundaries for a given clockspeed (or in extreme cases, makes a phone defective), but this shouldn't affect how a ROM runs.
What am I missing?
Why do some problems persist on what seems to be a clean install on some phones, and don't manifest on others? Do some ROMs run better because of different recoveries? What's left after a full wipe?
Obviously, installed apps and settings will make a phone perform differently, but that aside, shouldn't all SGS II run the same?
Eckyx said:
This is a new concept to me. There are no PCs that "just don't like Windows". With the same hardware, a PC will run the same software at the same speed with the same stability. All SGS II i777's have the same hardware, don't they?
There are of course variations in the quality (=bin) of some components, but that just sets voltage boundaries for a given clockspeed (or in extreme cases, makes a phone defective), but this shouldn't affect how a ROM runs.
What am I missing?
Why do some problems persist on what seems to be a clean install on some phones, and don't manifest on others? Do some ROMs run better because of different recoveries? What's left after a full wipe?
Obviously, installed apps and settings will make a phone perform differently, but that aside, shouldn't all SGS II run the same?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Simple answer is no not all devices are made the same. You see this with mass produced hardware. As for your PC ref. My brother and I have the same laptop while mine loves my set up, my brother has nothing but problems with it on his system. It comes alot down to personal set up and device. This has always been the case with mobile devices and custom roms. Stock roms are set to run on all devices the same. This is not so with custom roms.
Eckyx said:
This is a new concept to me. There are no PCs that "just don't like Windows". With the same hardware, a PC will run the same software at the same speed with the same stability. All SGS II i777's have the same hardware, don't they?
There are of course variations in the quality (=bin) of some components, but that just sets voltage boundaries for a given clockspeed (or in extreme cases, makes a phone defective), but this shouldn't affect how a ROM runs.
What am I missing?
Why do some problems persist on what seems to be a clean install on some phones, and don't manifest on others? Do some ROMs run better because of different recoveries? What's left after a full wipe?
Obviously, installed apps and settings will make a phone perform differently, but that aside, shouldn't all SGS II run the same?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Zel pretty neatly answered this, but I will also add that modern consumer electronics interact with the immediate environment far more than our pcs do. Light sensors, 3g radios, barometers, etc. are far less deterministic than our classic closed-loop pcs. Part of this perception of flux is based on this real flux, for example one of the core features people will discuss is call/modem quality, but driver tweaking vs. actual signal strength is a pretty fuzzy battle for anyone but an electrical/firmware engineer. And just like in the pc world, when you're talking under volting and over clocking your mileage will vary.
If you are methodical and read all the materials, your phone will operate tip top. It seems to me a lot (not all) of the variances often do boil down to the users configuration.
Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner
I have fixed a lot of computers and have been flashing custom roms for a year and ill tell you, in my personal opinion, problems are 90% user error. If people would all install properly and wipe everything completely and follow everything they're told to do and read all possible material on what they're flashing they can, a huge portion of the problems would dissapear. But is that gonna happen? I hope so
Heck I make mistakes too. None of us are immune to screwing up right? Good luck all, happy flashing.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2
Eckyx said:
Obviously, installed apps and settings will make a phone perform differently, but that aside, shouldn't all SGS II run the same?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, they should and they do, absolutely with every ROM, stock or custom.
If they're purely, properly installed, they're all the same.
By "purely", I meant completely, virgin-like ROM without any add-on.
If you choose to install somethings else, to customize your needs or set it up the way you want, then it's a whole different ball game.
zelendel said:
Simple answer is no not all devices are made the same. You see this with mass produced hardware. As for your PC ref. My brother and I have the same laptop while mine loves my set up, my brother has nothing but problems with it on his system. It comes alot down to personal set up and device. This has always been the case with mobile devices and custom roms. Stock roms are set to run on all devices the same. This is not so with custom roms.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just to chime in on the Windows thing - we buy a standard build HP computer at work for all developers. But if you put the same Windows disk in two of them and boot and install accepting all the defaults, there will always be slight variations in the way it configures itself between the two. It's probably the hardware detection that does it, but I swear you could get two of the same build lot and you'd STILL get something that didn't set up the same way. Sunspots? Power surge during the process? I dunno, but it does vary
You cant change the disk. Your network adapter has a MAC adress on it... windows will know something has changed. motherboard also has one.
A PC component are not the same at all.
You can buy a good I7 2600k or a bad I7 2600k. There are revisions of the very same model of CPU, memory, everything and its really hard to make 1 equal another.
Another thing is that one smartphone is a lot more delicate piece of hardware and the most important, has limited power to it components.
That makes harder to change anything on it. A small change could lead you to a failure.
just blame it on the ghosts in the machine and be done with it
votinh said:
Yes, they should and they do, absolutely with every ROM, stock or custom.
If they're purely, properly installed, they're all the same.
By "purely", I meant completely, virgin-like ROM without any add-on.
If you choose to install somethings else, to customize your needs or set it up the way you want, then it's a whole different ball game.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is not the case. I have tested with two different EVO 4Gs and two different SGS IIs - of the same hardware revision, even.
I performed the same steps to root and ROM both of the sets of phones, and put the same ROM on them. There were no other apps installed, nor themes/addons. I then used each as my phone for a week, making sure that I installed identical apps and even synced app data.
Both performed differently. My i777 is the faster of the two, but my EVO 4G was the slower and more bug-prone.
Yes, this is anecdotal evidence, but I at least am convinced. Take it as you will.
Also the phones are made with lower quality checks than desktop. ie I can oc my sgs 1 up to 1.6GHz but uv of -25, the phone well restart. But other people can't go more than 1.2 and cab apply a uv of -150 on the same step.
This is a fact. Think if every phone it's done with high quality checks the price of the device will raise pretty high.
Once of the frustrating things is that the people responding on the forums, (ROM devs and regular users) often try to have it both ways.
If you're experiencing something they aren't, it's obviously your fault because it doesn't happen on their one phone so it can't possibly be anything but your own fault. Go wipe 50 times and do other things that will take 3+ hours each time and don't come back until you do.
Oh... you've done all that already and still having the issue? Oh well, all phones are different... tough luck, bro. I'm not going to spend any time on anything my one phone doesn't do.
(Never mind that a dozen other people have reported the exact same issue, and another several dozen are experiencing it but are too scared to post about it because they see how everyone else is being flamed, castrated or even banned for daring to suggest a bug.)
One way or another, it seems a convenient way to blow off users having legit issues.
While I suppose there might be slight deviations in components once in a blue moon, I think the "all phones are different" excuse is more often than not used as a way to easily dismiss people and issues without helping. It's been repeated over and over for so long now, the majority take it as "fact" without really putting much thought into how it could possibly be as widespread and dramatic as they're pretending it is.
I don't buy it.
Even just with modems... everyone's like, "Oh well all phones are different... some modems work better on some phones, or in different areas". What kind of BS is that? How on earth could any phone manufacturer then create a mass-market phone that worked across the country without hacking? I'm sorry, but you can't chastise and criticize the manufacturers for not producing the universal "uber-phone" that works great anywhere while at the same time admitting that "all phones are different" and therefore require hacking for your specific flavor or region. It's hypocritical.
I think it's very, very rare that actual hardware differences between the exact same model phone account for issues people experience, and is more often than not either user or dev (as much as they try to paint themselves as infallible gods) error that they don't want to bother with. "All phones are different" = "F-off, I don't want to deal with this"
sremick said:
Once of the frustrating things is that the people responding on the forums, (ROM devs and regular users) often try to have it both ways.
If you're experiencing something they aren't, it's obviously your fault because it doesn't happen on their one phone so it can't possibly be anything but your own fault. Go wipe 50 times and do other things that will take 3+ hours each time and don't come back until you do.
Oh... you've done all that already and still having the issue? Oh well, all phones are different... tough luck, bro. I'm not going to spend any time on anything my one phone doesn't do.
(Never mind that a dozen other people have reported the exact same issue, and another several dozen are experiencing it but are too scared to post about it because they see how everyone else is being flamed, castrated or even banned for daring to suggest a bug.)
One way or another, it seems a convenient way to blow off users having legit issues.
While I suppose there might be slight deviations in components once in a blue moon, I think the "all phones are different" excuse is more often than not used as a way to easily dismiss people and issues without helping. It's been repeated over and over for so long now, the majority take it as "fact" without really putting much thought into how it could possibly be as widespread and dramatic as they're pretending it is.
I don't buy it.
Even just with modems... everyone's like, "Oh well all phones are different... some modems work better on some phones, or in different areas". What kind of BS is that? How on earth could any phone manufacturer then create a mass-market phone that worked across the country without hacking? I'm sorry, but you can't chastise and criticize the manufacturers for not producing the universal "uber-phone" that works great anywhere while at the same time admitting that "all phones are different" and therefore require hacking for your specific flavor or region. It's hypocritical.
I think it's very, very rare that actual hardware differences between the exact same model phone account for issues people experience, and is more often than not either user or dev (as much as they try to paint themselves as infallible gods) error that they don't want to bother with. "All phones are different" = "F-off, I don't want to deal with this"
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Click to collapse
Great so what you're saying is everyone that says this (especially devs) are a bunch of dicks. Nice.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2
Nick281051 said:
Great so what you're saying is everyone that says this (especially devs) are a bunch of dicks. Nice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's actually not what I said at all, but I know it's a lot easier to summarize my post into one sentence that makes me look like an ass, than actually look at the points that I made.
sremick said:
That's actually not what I said at all, but I know it's a lot easier to summarize my post into one sentence that makes me look like an ass, than actually look at the points that I made.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I read the whole thing and that's exactly what it says.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2
Nick281051 said:
I read the whole thing and that's exactly what it says.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope. But let me simplify it for you:
1) There can't be the level of hardware variation that people claim. It's not seen in other electronics, and it's not been seen before the recent generation of smartphones. The assumption of its existence is a recent phenomenon however if it were real we'd see it everywhere, on other electronics other than phones.
2) If it were to really exist, people would lose the ability to legitimately blame the phone manufacturers for 90% of what they currently give them crap about, especially in regards to making a quality stock ROM. What are they expected to do, create thousands of variations of stock ROMs, one for ever county in the USA to compensate for this accepted "all phones are different" theology?
3) Due to it being repeated over and over and simply assumed to be true without any actual evidence to the fact, it's become a convenient way to dismiss user issues... even in the face of mounting evidence to the contrary on a specific issue. This unfortunate trend causes lots of friction between users and devs. Even if it were true, it's now become an over-used dismissal without allowing for the chance that the user might be right.
People can't have it both ways, but right now there's a lot of hypocrisy. If it's true, there's been no evidence actually shown... just anecdotal experiences that could be chalked up to any number of other things. And whether it's true or its not, either way a massive amount of thinking and behavior would then have to then change... but right now, people behave like it's true and not true at the same time, which is nonsensical and frustrating.
The simple answer is, there is no answer. Its the nature of the process.
I've had one click roms fail the 1st attempt only to succeed the 2nd without even closing the Odin just reconnect the phone.
Either you accept that and have fun with it. Or stick to stock and move on.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using xda premium
sremick said:
Nope. But let me simplify it for you:
1) There can't be the level of hardware variation that people claim. It's not seen in other electronics, and it's not been seen before the recent generation of smartphones. The assumption of its existence is a recent phenomenon however if it were real we'd see it everywhere, on other electronics other than phones.
2) If it were to really exist, people would lose the ability to legitimately blame the phone manufacturers for 90% of what they currently give them crap about, especially in regards to making a quality stock ROM. What are they expected to do, create thousands of variations of stock ROMs, one for ever county in the USA to compensate for this accepted "all phones are different" theology?
3) Due to it being repeated over and over and simply assumed to be true without any actual evidence to the fact, it's become a convenient way to dismiss user issues... even in the face of mounting evidence to the contrary on a specific issue. This unfortunate trend causes lots of friction between users and devs. Even if it were true, it's now become an over-used dismissal without allowing for the chance that the user might be right.
People can't have it both ways, but right now there's a lot of hypocrisy. If it's true, there's been no evidence actually shown... just anecdotal experiences that could be chalked up to any number of other things. And whether it's true or its not, either way a massive amount of thinking and behavior would then have to then change... but right now, people behave like it's true and not true at the same time, which is nonsensical and frustrating.
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Click to collapse
No you're actually wrong because sometimes things CAN go wrong with flashing stuff. And modems in fact do work better in some places than others even though they try to make them universal it is very difficult to do that. Also, if a dev doesn't see a problem, how is he supposed to fix it? Riddle me that one. Also, restoring should take at most an hour with something like titanium backup. So 3+ hours is bull.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2
Nick281051 said:
if a dev doesn't see a problem, how is he supposed to fix it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He can start by not flaming the several people experiencing it (which scares away others also experiencing it, self-validating him and making him think the problem is less-common than it really is)
There's a difference between a problem being simply difficult for a dev to pin down and solve, and just attacking any user who dares bring up an issue that the dev himself isn't experiencing. Therein lies the hypocrisy, though: if "all phones are different", then a dev has to accept that a problem a user is experiencing might not be the result of stupidity on the user's part, and might actually be something in the ROM that simply didn't surface on the dev's phone, but is still something that needs to be addressed at the ROM level.
I totally accept that an issue the dev can't reproduce on his own phone is harder to resolve. But there are several devs who even make ROMs for phones they don't own anymore, and still manage to work with users to resolve issues. App devs do the same thing to resolve incompatibility bugs/issues with specific phone models the app dev don't own.
Also, restoring should take at most an hour with something like titanium backup. So 3+ hours is bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not quite. Just the backup alone takes 45+ mins on my phone. The restore is the same amount, so you've got 1.5 hours right there without taking into account everything else that TB doesn't handle that needs to be reconfigured by hand, or the actual flashing, and tracking down other surprises. And because I apparently am one of the few people who care about their data, I also back up my internal SD... just in-case something goes wrong. I know the wipe shouldn't touch it... but "**** happens" and if something goes wrong during a flash and I didn't have a backup, it'd be my own fault and I'd be subsequently flamed for that. So I play it safe.
Once again, a case of users for whom its quick trying to tell everyone else they're full of BS. I accept that for some users, whether it's the # of apps, amount of data, or whatever, it goes fast for them. Lucky them. Why can't they accept the fact that it's not "10 mins" for everyone like they spread around and flame others for suggesting otherwise?
Ok Here is the thing. I have personally been flashing and making custom roms for phones as far back as the Motorola razor v3. I have multiple phone running the exact same firmware, set up the exact same way and the have run totally differently. If all phone were made equal then there would be no returns due to issues the phone had as they would have all run the same and acted the same as the units that the OEM quality control tested. Lets take the Black Jack 2 as an example. The BJII was a WM phone that would self corrupt the system/media folder. This prevented any ringtones from working and the OS had to be reflashed. All this running on Stock firmware. This didnt happen to all of them, but became a well known glitch to anyone that did cell phone troubleshooting and repair. Did you ever stop to think why OEM and carriers dont use the roms from places like XDA? This is because things here are always under development. There will always be bugs. In the end the developers are making things for their phones and are nice enough to share it for others to use. Some do keep making roms for phones they dont have as this is overly not hard to do. They do this just to be nice. Except for the hardware drivers most of the under lying OS is all the same.
If a dev cant reproduce it then there is no way for them to fix it with the way people tend to report bugs. (The wrong way without the proper info)
Now lets jump to the present. I have 4 phones sitting on my desk. 2 are the HTC Inspire and 2 are the Samsung Captivate. Both running the exact same rom and apps, but guess what. They run very differently. On 1 Inspire and 1 captivate, I can OC to almost double, while the other 2 cant handle more then 1.2 over clock.
One of them also doesnt like the AOSP based software while the others are fine.
As for your backing up and restoring. It can take a long time if you have a TON of apps. Flashing custom roms are not for everyone. If you dont have the time or the want to learn something then you are doing it for the wrong reasons.
sremick said:
He can start by not flaming the several people experiencing it (which scares away others also experiencing it, self-validating him and making him think the problem is less-common than it really is)
There's a difference between a problem being simply difficult for a dev to pin down and solve, and just attacking any user who dares bring up an issue that the dev himself isn't experiencing. Therein lies the hypocrisy, though: if "all phones are different", then a dev has to accept that a problem a user is experiencing might not be the result of stupidity on the user's part, and might actually be something in the ROM that simply didn't surface on the dev's phone, but is still something that needs to be addressed at the ROM level.
I totally accept that an issue the dev can't reproduce on his own phone is harder to resolve. But there are several devs who even make ROMs for phones they don't own anymore, and still manage to work with users to resolve issues. App devs do the same thing to resolve incompatibility bugs/issues with specific phone models the app dev don't own.
Not quite. Just the backup alone takes 45+ mins on my phone. The restore is the same amount, so you've got 1.5 hours right there without taking into account everything else that TB doesn't handle that needs to be reconfigured by hand, or the actual flashing, and tracking down other surprises. And because I apparently am one of the few people who care about their data, I also back up my internal SD... just in-case something goes wrong. I know the wipe shouldn't touch it... but "**** happens" and if something goes wrong during a flash and I didn't have a backup, it'd be my own fault and I'd be subsequently flamed for that. So I play it safe.
Once again, a case of users for whom its quick trying to tell everyone else they're full of BS. I accept that for some users, whether it's the # of apps, amount of data, or whatever, it goes fast for them. Lucky them. Why can't they accept the fact that it's not "10 mins" for everyone like they spread around and flame others for suggesting otherwise?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with your point about the dev/user relationship. It can get pretty hostile sometimes which is completely unnecessary. Recently, I've been trying to emphasize the respect rule, regardless of who you are. Patience and cooperation can go a long way. And as zelendel said, sometimes people do report stuff the wrong way, but there's no need to be rude about it. Again, patience goes a long way.
Back to the main thing though, I'm not entirely sure how 2 fresh-out-of-the-box phones would work with the same settings and ROMs, but as others said, environmental and external factors can stress the phone and stuff just goes wrong. My phone, for example, would not operate the same as a fresh-out-of-the-box SGS2, even if you put the exact same stuff on it. Stuff just starts freaking out, and I'm pretty sure my phone is having hardware issues :[
Ok so I have lurked for a long time on the forums, commented here and there. I felt compelled to write this today because lately I have seen a lot of posts complaining that we don't have any working ROM's and several issues that are making people turn away from this great device. Let me start by saying that I work in the IT industry and tinkering with things that are not 100% functional in order to make them into something reliable comes second nature, it gives me a sense of satisfaction to know that I took something that was almost functional and turned it into something Amazing. I don't like to ask, I prefer to search on my own. The reason being that once I do fix it I have a better understanding of what needs to be done in order to make things work and makes the phone that much more enjoyable. The Dev's that work on this phone obviously have better things to do than work on a phone all day, and they are kind enough to provide us with something of a canvas which we than can turn into an expression of ourselves (cheesy I know) no they will not be perfect but they are damn close for me. Is this phone flawed, yes it is, would I like to own the latest and greatest piece of hardware out there (SGS3) of course. But at the moment with my wife in school and a 3 year old I am lucky to have the Amaze so believe me I will do anything to make it work, but it takes effort from the end user. Once you root your device it's an uphill battle every day a different Rom, kernel, permission that need to be set apps that need to be pushed, features that need to be added, themes that need to be flashed. But this is the beauty of Android that you can make it what you want and you can go as far as you are willing with it. Either way glad I could get this off my chest, have fun and flash away.
yespinosa said:
Ok so I have lurked for a long time on the forums, commented here and there. I felt compelled to write this today because lately I have seen a lot of posts complaining that we don't have any working ROM's and several issues that are making people turn away from this great device. Let me start by saying that I work in the IT industry and tinkering with things that are not 100% functional in order to make them into something reliable comes second nature, it gives me a sense of satisfaction to know that I took something that was almost functional and turned it into something Amazing. I don't like to ask, I prefer to search on my own. The reason being that once I do fix it I have a better understanding of what needs to be done in order to make things work and makes the phone that much more enjoyable. The Dev's that work on this phone obviously have better things to do than work on a phone all day, and they are kind enough to provide us with something of a canvas which we than can turn into an expression of ourselves (cheesy I know) no they will not be perfect but they are damn close for me. Is this phone flawed, yes it is, would I like to own the latest and greatest piece of hardware out there (SGS3) of course. But at the moment with my wife in school and a 3 year old I am lucky to have the Amaze so believe me I will do anything to make it work, but it takes effort from the end user. Once you root your device it's an uphill battle every day a different Rom, kernel, permission that need to be set apps that need to be pushed, features that need to be added, themes that need to be flashed. But this is the beauty of Android that you can make it what you want and you can go as far as you are willing with it. Either way glad I could get this off my chest, have fun and flash away.[/QUOT
Amen!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yespinosa said:
Ok so I have lurked for a long time on the forums, commented here and there. I felt compelled to write this today because lately I have seen a lot of posts complaining that we don't have any working ROM's and several issues that are making people turn away from this great device. Let me start by saying that I work in the IT industry and tinkering with things that are not 100% functional in order to make them into something reliable comes second nature, it gives me a sense of satisfaction to know that I took something that was almost functional and turned it into something Amazing. I don't like to ask, I prefer to search on my own. The reason being that once I do fix it I have a better understanding of what needs to be done in order to make things work and makes the phone that much more enjoyable. The Dev's that work on this phone obviously have better things to do than work on a phone all day, and they are kind enough to provide us with something of a canvas which we than can turn into an expression of ourselves (cheesy I know) no they will not be perfect but they are damn close for me. Is this phone flawed, yes it is, would I like to own the latest and greatest piece of hardware out there (SGS3) of course. But at the moment with my wife in school and a 3 year old I am lucky to have the Amaze so believe me I will do anything to make it work, but it takes effort from the end user. Once you root your device it's an uphill battle every day a different Rom, kernel, permission that need to be set apps that need to be pushed, features that need to be added, themes that need to be flashed. But this is the beauty of Android that you can make it what you want and you can go as far as you are willing with it. Either way glad I could get this off my chest, have fun and flash away.
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Click to collapse
Well stated.:thumbup:
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Didn't we go to different schools together?...Coffee Bean!
Sent from my HTC One X, using XDA Premium.
BRAVO...someone who get's it!!! I hate getting emails that always have the following in response to a suscribed thread...
"Does data work yet, how long does it take to boot, how do I install this, why did GlacierGuy get rid of his Amaze "