Related
Hey guys i think this should be an important challenge to overcome maybe find out where all the ram is going and get it back without reseting our precious moguls. My experience its something that Task manager doesn't show up because when i end task on my DCD 3 1 2 ROM i dont get all of my memory back like right after reset. Also this causes inconvinient problem of starting GPS after few days of RAM going down to 8mb and not having enough to lunch TOMTOM.
Oxios doesn't not regain full mem only one third of it.
Can we some how make a better task manager or maybe purge RAM?
Writing a driver to consider our FLASH cards as constant RAM?
I would gladly sacrifice remove ability of my MicroSD for extra 4 gigs of ram and would let my memory leak on a period of roughly 4 years of constant usage.
Please lets get organized and stop hoping the next ROM upgrade will solve this issue.
This is one of the biggest downfalls of the mogul
I would suggest looking into how RAM works before making this thread.
First off, most of our ram appears to be lost due to memory leaks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_leak
And since, at least in my experience, most of the memory leak comes from Windows 6 (and so much worse in 6.1), you can't exactly end the windows task unless you...
restart the Mogul.
So no, an application, or task manager, wont do you any good. Not until they fix windows 6.1 up to not be lord of memory leaks. That is why new roms are often so desired, because only a rom release with some decent version of 6.1 with hopefully some patched memory leak holes could help our problem.
Second, you can't use a flash drive as ram, at least its not reasonable. You think the Mogul slows down now? Wow, just wait to you see it moving at the blistering pace of a microSD card.
Ram is so small, and so expensive, largely due to its speed. Thats why you can buy a 500GB HD for about the cost of 4GB of RAM on your computer.
Also, running from the MicroSD would be similar to the page file on your home computer. It runs from, in most cases, your C drive, its a fairly large file, getting even larger when you run multiple tasks on a low RAM system.
It is slow as a dog, and is one of the worst causes of system slowdowns. I also believe that MicroSD's have a limited number of read/writes. While not an issue so much for everyday use (taking pictures, running an app from time to time), if it were used as a swap file, it would probably wear out that SD card pretty quick.
So no, short of an amazing, simple amazing, piece of software engineering on Microsoft's part on a new Windows Mobile, someone developing some sweet, easy to install ram upgrade, or the new replacement for the Mogul coming out with more ram than we know what to do with.
You will be restarting your Mogul.
It should be possible to wright a Driver to USE RAM for swap file and some of main drivers but MicroSD card to be used to run all the extra features and programs. Also why our team of coders cant plug the memory leaks or find out the runing programs not seen by Task manager and have option to close them?
PS
Thanks for confirming my worst dream about the limits of our mogul. Also I notice that PPC on palm trios seems not to have these memory leaks.
This is maybe possible if we can build a tool that can reboot the shell without rebooting the actual OS. It can be combined with the command to free the memory when the OS is unloaded. This is my theory, i think that we can recover memory like this
VulnoX said:
I would suggest looking into how RAM works before making this thread.
First off, most of our ram appears to be lost due to memory leaks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_leak
And since, at least in my experience, most of the memory leak comes from Windows 6 (and so much worse in 6.1), you can't exactly end the windows task unless you...
restart the Mogul.
So no, an application, or task manager, wont do you any good. Not until they fix windows 6.1 up to not be lord of memory leaks. That is why new roms are often so desired, because only a rom release with some decent version of 6.1 with hopefully some patched memory leak holes could help our problem.
Second, you can't use a flash drive as ram, at least its not reasonable. You think the Mogul slows down now? Wow, just wait to you see it moving at the blistering pace of a microSD card.
Ram is so small, and so expensive, largely due to its speed. Thats why you can buy a 500GB HD for about the cost of 4GB of RAM on your computer.
Also, running from the MicroSD would be similar to the page file on your home computer. It runs from, in most cases, your C drive, its a fairly large file, getting even larger when you run multiple tasks on a low RAM system.
It is slow as a dog, and is one of the worst causes of system slowdowns. I also believe that MicroSD's have a limited number of read/writes. While not an issue so much for everyday use (taking pictures, running an app from time to time), if it were used as a swap file, it would probably wear out that SD card pretty quick.
So no, short of an amazing, simple amazing, piece of software engineering on Microsoft's part on a new Windows Mobile, someone developing some sweet, easy to install ram upgrade, or the new replacement for the Mogul coming out with more ram than we know what to do with.
You will be restarting your Mogul.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
while every single statement you say is true, your only wrong about how long ti takes to wear out a flash device. According to Toshiba, the inventor of Flash memory and one of the top suppliers of Flash memory chips, the 10,000 cycles of MLC [Multi-Level Cell] NAND is more than sufficient for a wide range of consumer applications, from storing documents to digital photos. For example, if a 256-MB MLC NAND Flash-based card can typically store 250 pictures from a 4-megapixel camera (a conservative estimate), its 10,000 write/erase cycles, combined with wear-leveling algorithms in the controller, will enable the user to store and/or view approximately 2.5 million pictures within the expected useful life of the card.
For USB flash drives, Toshiba calculated that a 10,000 write cycle endurance would enable customers to completely write and erase the entire contents once per day for 27 years, well beyond the life of the hardware.
take into note that is only 10,000 write cycles. 100,000 which is common for most flash drive now a days. so no, he wont even be around to see the day his flash drive even wears out. LOL.
Glad to see this post picking up some steam But lets Try and focus on making A solution rather than discussin known facts
the known facts have already pointed out the problem (memory leaks in the OS) and the only solution we have without the source code (restart the OS by rebooting the phone) so what else is there to discuss?
oh yeah, we can talk about ways to get the source code so we can fix it.
well i posted one idea:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2257436&postcount=4
I've had my suspicions about this since I first got the Droid X2. I think it may be possible for much of the lag many (most/all?) people experience at some time or another.
As a test, I can check free RAM in Advanced Task Killer when I first boot up the phone, and it will hover somewhere 150 megs with all user processes killed.
Then, when I check after 24 hours of constant use (with intermittent charging periods) I will struggle to get 100 megs with all user processes killed.
Finally, if I reboot the phone, I will be able to obtain a decent amount of freed-up RAM again.
Anyone experiencing anything similar?
Now, I must mention, I'm operating under the assumption that the X2 does not cache apps or files in the RAM. I suspect there is too little RAM at such a minimal speed to be able to clear RAM fast enough in the event that something non-cached is called on. I mean, even Microsoft was slow to use this cache method, as they first introduced it in Windows 7. A good example of this in Windows 7 is if you check the Task Manager, you will see that roughly only a quarter of your RAM is ever actually labeled as "free", even if you currently have no programs open or are using minimal amounts of RAM.
And it certainly doesn't feel as if the cache is working as intended if Motorola did infact implement it on our phones.
I have contimplated over this for quite some time and have also came to the same conclusion. But the real question is: What can we do about it?
Most likely nothing.
Not sure of this is actually the case but when V6 is ran for instance it does talk about cached apps and gives an "actual" free ram reading. I would guess that zepplinrox would not have worded it that way if it was not the case but I have no real evidence either way.
Sent from my DROID X2 using xda premium
This did happen to me when I ran Advanced Task Killer on cm7. I'd start with a very good 190 free ram (insane I know) and after a few hours I'd struggle to brake 110
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2
This is the nature of Android and Linux in general. When you start an app (or a process), it will remain in memory until it is cleared by the OS. The problem with task killers and Android 2.3.x and above is this: Android 2.3.x and above RESPAWN the killed task since the OS did not kill it. Plus, there is no way to FORCE to OS to kill an app that is in the background. What Android does is renice the process until it is a positive number, greater than 1, then it kills the process. Android 2.3.x was designed to "auto manage" those tasks. If you run htop from an ADB session and launch apps and use the back button to back out of them, you will notice that the amount of free memory diminishes. Then, after sitting for a time, the amount of free memory slowly begins to increase. When an app that requires a bunch of memory is launched, the Android will kill those background apps to free up more memory. In theory, it is a great way to manage the memory. In this respect, apps that have been launched in that past will start up faster. Personally, I like having control over things. You could possibly write a script that will renice a process to something like +20 and then Android will kill it automatically, but that would be a very risky prospect as it might kill RUNNING foreground apps as well.
Hope this little explanation helps!
Ciao!
DX2 Version History lesion / Android Process Cache
theredvendetta said:
I've had my suspicions about this since I first got the Droid X2. I think it may be possible for much of the lag many (most/all?) people experience at some time or another.
As a test, I can check free RAM in Advanced Task Killer when I first boot up the phone, and it will hover somewhere 150 megs with all user processes killed.
Then, when I check after 24 hours of constant use (with intermittent charging periods) I will struggle to get 100 megs with all user processes killed.
Finally, if I reboot the phone, I will be able to obtain a decent amount of freed-up RAM again.
Anyone experiencing anything similar?
Now, I must mention, I'm operating under the assumption that the X2 does not cache apps or files in the RAM. I suspect there is too little RAM at such a minimal speed to be able to clear RAM fast enough in the event that something non-cached is called on. I mean, even Microsoft was slow to use this cache method, as they first introduced it in Windows 7. A good example of this in Windows 7 is if you check the Task Manager, you will see that roughly only a quarter of your RAM is ever actually labeled as "free", even if you currently have no programs open or are using minimal amounts of RAM.
And it certainly doesn't feel as if the cache is working as intended if Motorola did infact implement it on our phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your question is a bit complex. See back when Droid X2 first was released it had 2.2.3 for most users, and didn't have very good application memory management. This was the start of many applications such as "Advanced Task Killer" that you mentioned. These apps were supposed to help in closing apps that were running all the time.
Things changed a bit with the Gingerbread (2.3.3) release. This initial release made the Droid X2 useable. In my opinion the DX2 prior to Gingerbread was nearly a brick! I had many reboot issues, FC, connection issues, GPS issues, etc. With 2.3.3 many issues were eliminated, while others were reduced enough that they didn't bother me TO bad.
2.3.4 came out to fix battery issues largely...
Now I realize you weren't asking for a history lesion, but it is useful to know these things to know where things were and where things are today. I am currently running 2.3.5/412 and have been for months. I can say from experience, Android DOES cache background processes. I thought it did back in 2.3.4, but i can't remember... I don't think it did back in 2.2.x or at least the OS didnt' inform the users via GUI.
Your question about performance though? Yeah the DX2 is crap! I love the physical layout, but it has MANY issues with performance... some have been reduced by doing build.prop edits, yet I have realized that many who post these edits have posted wrong.... for example, they are increasing the buffer sizes thinking this will help internet speeds. This is super complex, but Google "Buffer Bloat" and you'll see how larger buffers often mean greater throughput, but MUCH greater latency....
simply put... big buffer == faster download of individual files.... smaller buffer == slightly slower download but MUCH more responsive
I'm not sure if that answered your question or not... let me know how I did or if I just rambled perhaps =P
I've been quietly lurking on this site for about 2 weeks since I got a nook tablet (16GB) with an N2A card (which was horrible). I came to this site looking for a way to mod my device and ended up learning a lot more than I intended. I have sampled quite a few ROMs on here and am astonished at the amount of work that has gone into these ports. I have a device that is so much more functional it's not even funny. Already I've reclaimed the space that BN had partitioned from users. I still have a lot to learn but I wanted to express my thanks to all the developers who work hard on these. I am very appreciative that a device which is technically 'obsolete' can be revitalized and turned into something very usable. I am still trying out various ROMs to try to see which is giving me the best stability and RAM use. So far the one I am using I unfortunately forgot the name of. Any way of finding out which ROM you might have flashed? What I like about it is most of the ROMs use so much RAM I am left with around 200MB of RAM without anything running. One particular ROM I'm using consistently gives me around 400-450 MB of free RAM even with some background apps running. A HUGE improvement. A couple ROMS literally left me with less than 100MB. Anyway if anyone has any advice or happens to know how to determine which ROM I might be using I'd be very happy. Mainly I wanted to introduce myself and thank the developers. GREAT STUFF!
Some info that most Android users are not aware of, as its a bit non-intuitive:
Having less memory (RAM) available is actually a good thing. Apps can be "running" in the background without actually using the processor or other resources. They are cached via the RAM in order to allow you to relaunch them quickly. Android's memory management is quite good, albeit different from say Windows.
This is why Task Killers are generally a bad idea. I used to use them as a means to kill apps when they froze or whatever, but now, with the roms I have on my devices, I have set long-press of the back button to kill the current app, should I need to do this.
Read this article for a bit more info.
tl;dr less memory available is not necessarily a bad thing on Android.
Sorry for delayed reply
Forgive my tardy response. Our internet was out for 2 days. I understand what you are saying but what I was noticing was a huge number of active programs that were not in use, nor are commonly in use enough to justify their being cached. One particular ROM was leaving me with less than 200 MB of RAM with the same processes referred to above being inactive as well. A 200MB difference with the same stuff running. The particular one I'm on now keeps a number of things running in the background and still leaves me with well over 300MB with 4-5 programs going at the same time. So while I agree with you that some might be doing more cache than others, my experience is telling me the build with the most RAM (ie whichever one I am using...I unfortunately forgot which I installed...a CM10 but not sure if it was the cherry pick or chris'.) is the one that is managing the memory the best. I can figure out no other explanation for the same number of programs using an extra 200 MB of memory over another rom and thinking that is a good thing. For example, the ones I am thinking of are running stuff in the background I don't even use. Power Amp is a huge offender for whatever reason. I see no reason to have it running 24/7 but it does!
I've enjoyed my XT910 for a couple of years, but quit using it about 3-4 years ago. Now I want to use it with a secondary SIM, perhaps as a WiFi hotspot while roaming, but I find the speed appalling. Every operation takes seconds to show a result. Even unlocking to an SMS notification takes ~4 seconds.
Using MoKee 5.1 on a secondary ROM slot, I think. It's always on charge (as battery is slowly dying) and the only active app is PushBullet, used to see check my SMSs on other devices.
Does it make sense to invest in a new battery and keep this phone as my secondary? Or should I just get a cheap Chinese one, like Ulefone U007?
I don't expect miracles, just maybe using it as a light travel phone, mobile hotspot, speedcam notifier and occasional (once every two months) browsing. Should I maybe switch to a stock-based ROM that lives on the main slot? Get rid of slots altogether?
The phone lived some nice times, travelled around the world, edited and uploaded DSLR pictures with OTG, provided navigation to rickshaw drivers, was a portable desktop for a while, then a retro-gaming machine. Maybe it just wants to be retired...
Motomizer can help overclock it so it doesn't seem as slow. I haven't maxed mine out, just ramped it up about midway.
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
I've bought a new battery and installed Mokee 5.1, upgraded later to 6.0. Battery life is ok-ish, but not much of a difference. I've measured the old battery to still have 1400-1500Ah, the new one is ~1700mAh. I suspect the poor battery life was due to some hanging processes.
Anyway, with Mookee 6.0, the phone is unbearably slow. I have whatsapp, viber, google maps and nothing else. LMK has been set to very aggressive.
When I receive an SMS, it takes 5-15 seconds for it to load, if it doesn't FC. When I unlock the phone (after it sat for a while) it takes at least 10s to come to life.
My suspicion is that there is high memory usage (Android reports 30-70MB remaining) which causes everything to be evicted from RAM. Not sure what can be done, except install an older android version. I thought the newer ones had better memory and battery management.
Android OS - 285MB
Android System - 99MB
Google Play services - 75MB
System UI - 54MB
Phone - 36MB
Viber - 35MB
Messaging service - 35MB
Whatsapp - 33MB
.......
Free memory 28MB
Not sure what I should do: switch to an older Android version? if so, which ROM would be more responsive but still frugal? Do not update apps as newer ones eat more memory? Give up?
I've already half-given up and ordered a cheap Blackview A7, but I really liked the Moto as a travel/backup phone.
You're busy and don't have time to wait, which is why you need to stop reading this thread and get back to organizing your Pogs. Rate this thread to express how the Xiaomi Mi A1 performs when multitasking. A higher rating indicates that the Xiaomi Mi A1 keeps many apps in memory so that they don't need to reload, and that when moving between apps, transitions are smooth and performance is excellent.
Then, drop a comment if you have anything to add!
When I run Google play store in background, other apps in foreground starts not responding.
3.5 gigs of RAM are excellent (~0.5 gigs are left for the GPU). What I don't understand is that why this device employs a 512MB swap partition which causes wear and tear of its internal storage. I'm sure as hell this swap partition cannot be disabled without rooting which I'd love to avoid.
Actually it is very smooth in terms of multi-tasking
is it just me or anyone else experienced the same thing? my recent apps keep restarting even when i got about just 4 or 5 apps opened. i checked the ram usage but it seems normal, it uses about 60-70% of ram. does anyone know whats going on here?
What i have observed is, android OS and system, and few other Google apps take up 1.5+ Gigs of RAM. I am not quite satisfied with that...
However the performance and multitasking is very good though.
Eshwar123 said:
What i have observed is, android OS and system, and few other Google apps take up 1.5+ Gigs of RAM. I am not quite satisfied with that...
However the performance and multitasking is very good though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That means that 2,5 gb of ram is unused and wasted.
Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk
Can any one help in my problem.. when I leave a app for multitasking that app get automatically closed and not even shows in recent apps what is wrong with i m unable to understand this..
Sk.asifkhan said:
Can any one help in my problem.. when I leave a app for multitasking that app get automatically closed and not even shows in recent apps what is wrong with i m unable to understand this..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Restart your phone. Happens to me a lot on stock.
ability to use split screen for 2 apps is really nice.
Pretty much mid-range performance, as per expectation
My MiA1 since September 2017, Stock/OTA Android 8.1.0, November 2018, no further updates (Rejected all Android 9/P updates so far, latest November 2019).
Not Rooted.
Usage (Average) Statistics:
RAM: 4 GB, ~39% Free.
Int Storage: 64 GB, 55% Available.
Ext Storage: 32 GB, 13% Available.
Total number of Apps installed: 293 (true!)
Self-installed Apps: 275 (!!!)
System Apps: 18
Maintenance Apps: Greenify, AccuBattery, AntiVirus, Button Mapper, Android Assistance, ...
No crunchy Video Games, Flight Simulators etc.
Performance: Average without lags, Multitasking, split screen or with flipscreen.
Crashed twice in two years.
Currently Android is up for last 21 days no drags.
(I, usually, Shutdown in 10 days, as cleanup)
Phone goes in deep sleep (>80% of time) when inactive and screen off.
LiPo battery BN31 with ~2800mAh (90% of original) after 2+1/4 yrs
I charge 10-80% at 1.95A or 0.67C
30-40hrs use between charging.
Screen on Time 4-5hrs (~12% of use).
My Multitasking rating 3.5 / 5.
Pretty disappointing
Memory management is horrible in this phone..I have to restart the phone every 2 days.. otherwise the OS will keep killing background apps..even if u left any application to check a message or something, Android will instantly kill that app and you'll have to wait for it to reload again.. anything u were doing in that app is just gone ..I rooted my phone using magisk and uninstalled many bloatware like ant Hal services etc,..I use SD maid pro to clear caches, force closed every other app,tried to tweak the settings of the low memory killer, increased the size of the swap file even overclocked the phone to stay running at the max CPU ratio but nothing worked ..apps keeps getting closed the exact second u leave them despite having more than 2 gigs of free RAM
A1 just works fine for me