My wife bought an S7+ from Amazon and it's been fine for a couple of months. She had a popup today which warned that the device would be locked because it was part of a trade in scheme and there was some sort of problem. I assumed some sort of malware but I was working so I didn't do much with it but now the device appears to have locked into a sort of "kiosk mode" where we just get 2 screens:
https://imgur.com/a/Z4N9TLy
All the blurb is plastered with "Samsung Electronics UK" but the domain the email is going to is "tradeinresponse.co.uk" which after some Googling seems to have been linked with some scam stuff in the past.
I've tried safe mode with the same locked screen, plugging the tablet into a PC results in it locking to the first screen.
I can get into recovery and I wanted to try a wipe, but the wife has some drawings on there she's done in Sketchbook that she would like to keep.
I'm a software developer by profession but I work with Windows/.NET and SaaS stuff so I've not got much experience with droid devices (a bit of java here and there in the past, but not so much XP with the OS itself)
So my questions are:
Does anyone know if this is any sort of official thing or is this malware/scam stuff as I suspect?
Is a factory reset likely to resolve the issue?
If I want to factory reset, can I pull files off the devices internal SD via ADB or some other tool before I do it?
Do I have any other options?
Kind of a wind up - I'd just have factory reset it by now to find out but like I said, I don't want to lose any of the wife's data if possible. If she gets anything back I'm going to make sure she sticks it in the cloud.
Any help would be appreciated and thanks in advance!
Always backup critical data redundantly to at least 2 hdds that are physically and electronically isolated from each other and the PC.
Or you will lose data eventually.
Factory reset but you will lose all data. If the drive is encrypted, you likely already have.
Sounds like ransomware. Contact Samsung and do some Google searches. See what you got and if there are any work arounds.
You may need to reload the OS completely if it's a rootkit and running on Android 8 or below.
This could be a nasty little bugger...
If it wasn't present on the device when purchased, your wife either downloaded or installed it. She needs to be more careful!!!
Maybe this will impress that onto her...
Thanks for the advice but I've already googled as much as I can. The domain doesn't go anywhere except a holding page though through reverse lookup it seems there are also other domains on the same host including some legitimate businesses that appear to do Samsung second life schemes for devices.
I've googled the actual lock message but no-one on the net seems to have seen it before.
The wife hasn't installed anything, she got the device a few weeks ago (from Amazon, supposedly new) and did a transfer from her old s6 (that has gone to my daughter) to the s7 using Smart Switch. Since then she's not installed any other applications.
It's not "critical data", per se, it's just drawings she'd like to keep, plus copying stuff onto physically disparate hard drives seems a bit overkill given she can just drop the files into a cloud storage account and have way more redundancy than you/I could ever reproduce by doing manual backups.
I'm posting in an s7 forum about an s7 so it's going to be running Android 10 at the minimum (given that's what the device ships with). Not sure why the comments about Android 8.
Anything she could have installed would have been from the Play store (and I don't believe she installed anything other than what automatically installed from what was on her old s6), plus her apps are from a reputable vendors (Autodesk etc). My son has a tablet and he installs all sorts of crap and hasn't had this issue because the OS prevents stuff like this from happening unless you allow side loading.
Is it possible to install a rootkit from the play store? I didn't think so ..?
So, either it was on there when we got it, it's legit or it's a vulnerability that exists in the OS and we are some of the first people to see it...
You can do what you want but any backup database that requires a password can be lost.
I have close to a dozen backup hdds, there's no way to I can lose my entire database.
At least use 2 OTG flashsticks to completely backup the data but hdds are still preferable.
NEVER encrypt data drives... and verify the backups are complete and readable.
As to how it happened you're going to have to sort that out or suffer the same fate possibly again in the future.
A factory reset seems inevitable at this point.
Afterwards change all passwords.
Malware has always existed on Playstore albeit not much or for long. She may have imported from your daughter's phone.
You got some potentially gigantic problems now.
Personally I would have already gone full nuke by now. It's simply not worth the risks.
In the future hawk the download folder daily for files you didn't authorize. Delete any unknowns without opening. Scrutinize all downloads and installs carefully, always. Scan as needed with Malwarebytes. Online Virustotal can be used to scan smaller files and apks.
There are also maliciously scripted jpegs too that can cause damage to any files in the same folder when opened. Be aware of any changes or strange behavior in the download folder. Vet all downloads before moving into your database.
Use a good brower like Brave and be careful what links you click, in the browser, emails and texts.
I can't even begin to estimate how many websites I backed out of, closed that tab or wiped the browser data over in the last year alone. Better safe than sorry. Zero malware infections in over 1.5 years and that's running on outdated Pie.
Almost all malware, rootkits etc are loaded by the user. Some will self install if the device's security isn't configured correctly or if not spotted on a timely basis. Androids, even ones with out of date OSs are generally very secure unless the user does something stupid... learn or get burned.
blackhawk said:
You can do what you want but any backup database that requires a password can be lost.
I have close to a dozen backup hdds, there's no way to I can lose my entire database.
At least use 2 OTG flashsticks to completely backup the data but hdds are still preferable.
NEVER encrypt data drives... and verify the backups are complete and readable.
As to how it happened you're going to have to sort that out or suffer the same fate possibly again in the future.
A factory reset seems inevitable at this point.
Afterwards change all passwords.
Malware has always existed on Playstore albeit not much or for long. She may have imported from your daughter's phone.
You got some potentially gigantic problems now.
Personally I would have already gone full nuke by now. It's simply not worth the risks.
In the future hawk the download folder daily for files you didn't authorize. Delete any unknowns without opening. Scrutinize all downloads and installs carefully, always. Scan as needed with Malwarebytes. Online Virustotal can be used to scan smaller files and apks.
There are also maliciously scripted jpegs too that can cause damage to any files in the same folder when opened. Be aware of any changes or strange behavior in the download folder. Vet all downloads before moving into your database.
Use a good brower like Brave and be careful what links you click, in the browser, emails and texts.
I can't even begin to estimate how many websites I backed out of, closed that tab or wiped the browser data over in the last year alone. Better safe than sorry. Zero malware infections in over 1.5 years and that's running on outdated Pie.
Almost all malware, rootkits etc are loaded by the user. Some will self install if the device's security isn't configured correctly or if not spotted on a timely basis. Androids, even ones with out of date OSs are generally very secure unless the user does something stupid... learn or get burned.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With all due respect we aren't getting anywhere here, I don't want backup advice or malware advice, I want to know the answers to the few small questions I asked about whether this is legit and if I can access the device files or not.
You seem to be convinced it's malware, you also seem to be skim reading my posts which is fine - but I don't think your input is helping me.
I'm not going to use a different "paranoid" browser - chrome is fine, the tablet doesn't have a "security configuration" that is any different from the hundreds of thousands of other S7+ devices out there since it's a tablet and out the box it's ready to go. I'm not checking the downloads folder daily just in case some random malware has somehow "installed itself" onto my device, I'm also not keeping random flash sticks and hard drives lying about - I'll just use that geo redundant pretty solid cloud storage like most of the populace.
Yes you can put malicious content in a JPEG or a JPEG header, but it requires that there's an exploit in the OS or the app opening it (for example hiding a javascript eval in the file metadata); I don't think that's an attack vector on a tablet as far as I know given that she only browses, watches Netflix and draws using her S-pen on the device.
She's not imported "malware" from someone else's phone because if you read my post properly you'd understand that it was HER device that she transferred her data from - one that she's since given to the daughter (who has no issues). If you know how Smart Switch works you'd know that it's an unlikely vector (it just transfers data from application storage and then reinstalls the apps from the play store), plus the fact the original device doesn't have the issue...
Stop telling me to "learn or get burned". This is not a "misuse" problem. The wife is on Android 10, it's a relatively new and secure O/S and she didn't install anything she shouldn't have (she didn't actually install anything at all - it was the stock samsung application and the play store that installed the apps she ALREADY HAD on her previous device). It's not a "learn" scenario. Nothing she did should have caused this - if it is/was an OS exploit or some sort of security issue what could she have done to prevent it? Nothing.
What I have done is:
* Contacted the vendor of the device (we can still send it back if they've sent us a refurbed device instead of new as advertised)
* Sent an email to the address advertised to see what response I get (if they demand money then clearly a scam)
I've checked and the domain in the above shares a host with a company called MTR which happens to be a DCC Group company (one of the groups of companies I actually consult for) so worst case I'll speak to someone from DCC Group and see if they can shed any light.
Seems like it might be legit and quite possibly a mix up.
Do what you will... if you understand the origin of that phrase.
Anything that can't be IDed is considered malware until proven innocent
The fact that you're now completely locked out speaks volumes.
Good practices and backup are your only defenses. They apply to the future not the past... so much for flavors
Personally I think it's already too late for that device's OS load and data.
Of course I could be mistaken.
If you really want the data, take it to a data recovery specialist. They may be able to recover it.
When your at the beginning you can determine how potential data lose will end. When at the end, the outcome has already been predetermined by your actions or lack of.
You are now at the end... likely a dead end.
Been there, done that... actions have consequences.
@Charleh: if I were you, I would back up all important data and do a clean firmware flash with Odin. And a factory reset on top of that, just to be sure. Definitely sounds like you got hit by a scammer.
AnonVendetta said:
@Charleh: if I were you, I would back up all important data and do a clean firmware flash with Odin. And a factory reset on top of that, just to be sure. Definitely sounds like you got hit by a scammer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like I said there's not really any important data on there, just some drawings the wife would like to keep. Also, I can't backup anything since I can't access the device.
I'll probably just speak to DCC group and see if this company is one of theirs.
If the data is lost we are just talking some drawings the wife has done, there's nothing important on there, she just loses the layers (they are stored as multi page tiffs and sketchbook uses those as layers). She has all the images as flat renders on her cloud storage drive and on Instagram.
Think we just need to invest in some extra cloud storage as the free 15gb that Google give you isn't enough to store what she wants at the moment as the images are tens of megabytes each.
Worst case scenario I factory reset and flash it, best case I get someone at DCC telling me what's what.
The bit that gets me is that there are no ransom demands at this point so I can't be sure what's what. Usually by now with crypto ransom malware you are already being given demands...
We will see.
blackhawk said:
Do what you will... if you understand the origin of that phrase.
Anything that can't be IDed is considered malware until proven innocent
The fact that you're now completely locked out speaks volumes.
Good practices and backup are your only defenses. They apply to the future not the past... so much for flavors
Personally I think it's already too late for that device's OS load and data.
Of course I could be mistaken.
If you really want the data, take it to a data recovery specialist. They may be able to recover it.
When your at the beginning you can determine how potential data lose will end. When at the end, the outcome has already been predetermined by your actions or lack of.
You are now at the end... likely a dead end.
Been there, done that... actions have consequences.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not a big deal mate.
Stop flogging a dead horse, the most annoying thing is just that the device is unusable, regardless of me making backups or signing a pact with the devil or putting candlewax on my nips, it wouldn't have prevented this from happening..
The only reason I haven't tried a factory reset up to now is because if there's a chance I can get the drawings off the device I'd like to try it first before I nuke it.
Stop talking about my lack of actions, it's getting really boring. There's nothing I could do to forsee this happening and not my fault the wife didn't put the drawings on her cloud storage.
Go bother someone else with your multiple flash disk tinfoil hat backup routines (I bet you've got a tape drive in that routine somewhere too), stop trying to be helpful by saying "told you so" after the fact, instead try answering the questions I asked.
@Charleh: The way I see it is this:
The device's data partition/internal storage (where the drawings are stored) are encrypted by default, by Samsung. So, unless you can manage to use a MTP USB connection or ADB to make copies of them, then you're locked out and there's nothing you can do to recover them. Since they're located in an encrypted area, I highly doubt that even a professional data recovery business would be able to get them back. There are certain encryptions out there that even the US govt (NSA/CIA/FBI) can't break.
I'm assuming that you're not a l33t hax0r with uber skills, so unless you can successfully boot into Android again, your recovery chances are almost zero.
Or, maybe this company can help you out. It's worth a shot. But if I were a gambling man, I'd wager a lot of money that you will end up having to clean flash/reset, without being able to recover anything.
In the future, think about making copies of this stuff before bad things occur. As the saying goes, anything that can go wrong, will go wrong, sooner or later. I rarely lose access to my data because I'm frequently backing it up.
Good luck!
AnonVendetta said:
@Charleh: The way I see it is this:
The device's data partition/internal storage (where the drawings are stored) are encrypted by default, by Samsung. So, unless you can manage to use a MTP USB connection or ADB to make copies of them, then you're locked out and there's nothing you can do to recover them. Since they're located in an encrypted area, I highly doubt that even a professional data recovery business would be able to get them back. There are certain encryptions out there that even the US govt (NSA/CIA/FBI) can't break.
I'm assuming that you're not a l33t hax0r with uber skills, so unless you can successfully boot into Android again, your recovery chances are almost zero.
Or, maybe this company can help you out. It's worth a shot. But if I were a gambling man, I'd wager a lot of money that you will end up having to clean flash/reset, without being able to recover anything.
In the future, think about making copies of this stuff before bad things occur. As the saying goes, anything that can go wrong, will go wrong, sooner or later. I rarely lose access to my data because I'm frequently backing it up.
Good luck!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks - that was a helpful answer. I suspected that droid encrypted the data - I was looking at making an ADB connection using Android tools. Might as well give it a try before I nuke.
I can't use MTP as the device auto locks when I plug in a USB cable.
Like I've said a few times it's not a massive issue if I lose the data - I work in IT, I know the importance of backing up important data. I've seen a client lose months worth of data to crypto-ransomware (they cancelled their backup solution a few months before saying they were moving to Azure soon so they didn't need it).
I've explained though, it's not my device and it's up to the wife to put her stuff on her cloud storage if she wants to keep it. She uses Google Drive for her docs etc.
Worst case scenario I complain to Amazon, wife is saying she doesn't remember the screen having a protector/film on it when she opened it and we still have time to return/exchange it since I have a Prime account.
@Charleh: AFAIK, Amazon has a 30 day no questions asked return policy for almost everything. If you're still within that return window, then I guess you just have to decide whether the loss of drawings is worth returning it, assuming all recovery efforts fail. I bought my Tab S7+ new direct from Samsung, I haven't encountered like what you describe. And your edge case is the first one I've seen.
I think it's possible that you bought a refurbished device that was preowned but sold as new. The original buyer didn't finish paying it off, returned it, it's sold to you, you get this message. It's either legitimately locked, or someone has remotely locked it and intends to scam you. Contact that company ASAP.
Another option is to find a local techie/shop that can remove this lock for a fee, preferably without data loss. They make want to see proof of purchase, if they're legit. This would at least give you the ability to use the device again. People used to bring me locked phones/tabs all the time, this is pretty much what I did for side cash. As long as they didn't outright admit they were stolen, I didn't care.
Ok speaking to Samsung support and it's legit - what's happened is that someone's returned the device to the supplier after doing a trade in with it and receiving a new device from Samsung Trade In.
Supplier has refunded us and told us to keep the device until the issue is resolved with Samsung.
Now fighting with Samsung themselves about it. Absolute pisstake.
Basically I have a brick and although Samsung have the capability to unlock the device through Knox they won't do it until a resolution is found with the supplier.
Fun-times. Sent a complaint email to Samsung as they are essentially holding the wife's artwork to ransom because of an issue they have created with the rules of their trade-in program.
I've already received the refund too - sounds like the Amazon reseller is trying to wash their hands of it.
@Charleh: So, they refunded you AND they're going to let you keep the tablet? I'd be quite happy with that.
AnonVendetta said:
@Charleh: So, they refunded you AND they're going to let you keep the tablet? I'd be quite happy with that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Depends if the tablet is ever going to be functional again...
Fingers crossed!
Time to reflash, ODIN or do whatever and see if you can and up with his + hers new(sort of) tablets.
Hello, some solution?
Charleh said:
Depends if the tablet is ever going to be functional again...
Fingers crossed!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How did this end?
corb06 said:
How did this end?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
still ongoing - Amazon is trying to get hold of the original supplier but they've gone dark; I complained to Samsung and they are looking into it, just waiting for a reply.
They took almost a month to get back to me - only did so when I started complaining publicly on all social media platforms (Twitter, Instagram etc) - they don't like it when you do that.
Will update when I know more.
Charleh said:
still ongoing - Amazon is trying to get hold of the original supplier but they've gone dark; I complained to Samsung and they are looking into it, just waiting for a reply.
They took almost a month to get back to me - only did so when I started complaining publicly on all social media platforms (Twitter, Instagram etc) - they don't like it when you do that.
Will update when I know more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry to hear it's taking so long. I'd be super pissed. Next time, buy direct from Samsung, you wouldnt have to deal with this ****. Because they wouldnt sell you a used/refurbished device unless it's clearly marked as such, and i'm pretty sure they only sell new devices anyway.
Can you post a link to the seller's Amazon page? They could be a fly-by-night op.
If you cant get your money back or an exchange, just contact your bank/card issuer and do a chargeback. This is a last resort ootion, if nothing else works. Explain the whole situation to them. Chances are, they would force the seller or someone else responsible, to give your money back. The only caveat is that if you wait too long, it might not work. i've inititated chargebacks against sellers who dont respond to support requests, it usually worked in my favor.
Edit: If you go the chargeback route and Amazon is forced to refund your money, they may retaliate by banning your account. it recently happened to a friend. Just so you know.....
Related
I believe this information should be out there for all Android users and i dont recall seeing it anywhere but i hang out here right now and thought i would share what i discovered on accident.
i reference a RAZR M here but INSERT any Android phone as far as i can tell.
***please Devs and such i am not one so ignore my possible misuse of how exactly it operates but i just wanted to share the point of this not how the Android OS operates
i had a RAZR M with ROOT and installed Avast Mobile Security (i believe many others would do this as well) and since i was root i installed it as a /System app. this as some of you may not know makes it kinda part of the OS now. this means that a Factory Reset does not remove it but instead installs it again. i will explain how i discovered this:
- had a RAZR M as mentioned and i installed Avast as /System
- you can rename the app itself to whatever you want like "fletch33" and so anyone who finds your phone wouldnt know it was a security app and try to uninstall it. this is a great feature so i renamed it.
- this will do the standard stuff like locate your device, wipe it, make it beep, etc....
- i decided to give the phone to someone else and they wouldnt want root items or anything so i did a factory reset forgetting i had installed Avast as /System so they would have a clean start with the M
- since Avast was /System it became part of the Factory Reset process and so a what i thought was a clean fresh phone actually still had Avast on it but now since it was fresh and clean there were no signs like an app to remind me i had installed it as root. i honestly forgot it was on there.
- i had selected to get notifications of where the phone is if it traveled a distance but could see it whenever i wanted with a browser login to website and although i had reset it that STILL WORKS! i am getting emails when it moves and can login and see it.
- there are no visible signs that this is on the M (insert any phone)
- in my knowledge the only way the tracking etc... would stop is if i were to ODIN or SBF or whatever the equivalent is on that particular device or i would have to re-install Avast and it would then allow me to put in my passcode and then i could uninstall it.
the moral of the story is that any used phone could have had this done and if not by accident like mine but on purpose for whatever reason.
fortunately i gave the M to a family member and i will fix it for him but it really made me think what it could be used for ....
if this has been mentioned or i am incorrect i apologize in advance but when i started getting emails about where the phone i gave away was located all the time from Avast after a Factory Reset i decided i should share this so that others might take precautions with their second hand Android device.
1. I always Odin my phone and procedure to rooting with in a few short hours of owning device.
And if not, I'm pretty sure unlocking the device will erase everything. (in a lot of my previous cases)
2. And I see nothing wrong with the previous owner being able to track me picking up his wife and taking her back to the white house to make her my First lady
Yep, first thing I would do is wipe the phone properly.
"Factory reset" is a really bad name for the process...it does nothing of the sort.
Um, makes complete sense that you can still track the device. I assumed that before you even posted it. Same way you can track devices through android device manager, moto software, etc etc.
You're forgetting a huge oversight here.......it doesn't really do much good if stealing someones phone, then wiping it, would get rid of all tracking options. Kinda defeats the purpose. Otherwise people would steal someone's phone, factory reset, then go about their merry way and you're SOL...
TechSavvy2 said:
Um, makes complete sense that you can still track the device. I assumed that before you even posted it. Same way you can track devices through android device manager, moto software, etc etc.
You're forgetting a huge oversight here.......it doesn't really do much good if stealing someones phone, then wiping it, would get rid of all tracking options. Kinda defeats the purpose. Otherwise people would steal someone's phone, factory reset, then go about their merry way and you're SOL...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sure but since most Android phones dont offer a iPhone like recovery and most users dont even know what root it then to me its those people that should have concern.
i always ODIN or SBF etc.. myself if i pick up a used phone but most people woudnt even know about that.
Manufacturers should release iPhone like recovery system so that an average person can clean their phone without tech knowledge and downloading a file somewhere.
I feel super awkward and a bit embarrassed to ask this question, but I'm asking for help from this community (see last 2 or paragraphs for ask if you want to skip the boring details) and I think I need to explain briefly why to define my ultimate goal and why I even have to ask rather than sift through searches and assemble the steps/versions I need, etc.
My 22 year old daughter died recently (unexpectedly). I obviously want to preserve everything I can of hers, but I'm not firing on all cylinders mentally. I was able take her ThinkPad and virtualize it to my ESX system and also yank and clone the physical drive for safe keeping. But even doing that took me a while (which it shouldn't, that's kind of what I do for a living - I should be able to do that in my sleep, but it took 3 days and a lot of screaming). I was able to access her google accounts, facebook accounts, etc. and preserve a ton of stuff from there.
Ultimately while I would want to do with her phone the same thing I did to her notebook - preserve it virtually so I could examine it without fear of changing/modifying anything, but I don't think the product exists that allows me to virtualize an existing Android phone with apps and everything intact into a PC environment. I think I could install a whole new Android emulator in Windows, but that's not probably what I want.
I had just given her a Samsung S5 SM-G900T running on Ting for her birthday about 2 weeks before she died. It was unlocked but unrooted, it's rare that I would do nothing to the phone prior to giving it to her - but I pretty much just turned it on and handed it over with no custom ROM or anything - mostly because I was pressed for time the day of her party and it was shipped late.
When I got it back from the police a few say ago (they held it for 2 months) and charged it and turned it on 2 days ago, it upgraded from Lollipop to Marshmallow 6.0.1 (baseband is PE1), which was apparently pending. I don't know if that complicates things. It pissed me off, though. I have copied off local photos off and videos and already took control of her Google and Facebook accounts as I mentioned.
My slightly confused brain tells me normally I might install TWRP or CWM and make a NAND backup and copy it off someplace and at least have a restorable copy of her phone. I haven't done much of this sort of thing with phones for a year or two, I don't know what's changed in the latest OS versions and beides, plus I sort of "lose it" a bit, especially going through her personal things.
I'm not an idiot, I'm just not all here, yet. I'm asking if someone can please give me steps to safely preserve an image of her phone (IE, install TWRP or CWM using specific version xxx, etc., using Odin version xxx, etc.) - If I can virtualize it, too, I'd love to know what product does that, but again, I don't think I can.
I don't know why I feel the need to do these things, I just do.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Bump. Somebody please help this fellow. This is too important for me to try advising him, I don't know enough.
So even though half my brain is addled, I did some more research and found out a few interesting things, should anyone care to try this. I found there are a couple of open source tools built for android forensics:
Open Source Android Forensics Toolkit
https://sourceforge.net/projects/osaftoolkit/
Santoku
https://santoku-linux.com/about-santoku/
And there are commercial products, , like NowSecureForensics, some (if not most) built on the toolkits I just mentioned. Another is the painfully ironically named (for me, anyway) Autopsy.
This interesting website verified (to me anyway) that rooting the phone and changing access is still fundamentally sound forensically:
http://freeandroidforensics.blogspot.com
And it confirmed there is no way (yet) to truly "virtualize" the phone entirely (unless you are the manufacturer and you have some proprietary software).
For a "live" example virtually, the best you can do is install an Android emulator and restore an ADB backup of an app. This obviously may or may not work if the app is very hardware dependent. But for a simple program it might work fine.
So in addition to rooting my daughter's S5, installing TWRP, and backing it up, I also got my daughter's HTC One M7 to finally power up, and I rooted it and installed TWRP for backup purposes as well. Many of the forensic tools I mentioned will then report from the standard TWRP backups, with no risk to changing the phone. Some want to look at the phone themselves, even offering to root them, which I find more risky.
I haven't found any one tool to fully provide what I need, you need a Windows PC, a Linux PC (or VM), one or more toolsets (each comprised of other toolsets) and then a lot of time/will to really piece together things. I haven't completed the examinations - even typing is harder now for some reason, but should anyone else need this sort of thing (hopefully for different reasons than mine), the above info is a good start.
Hey guys, i got a scareware pop up last night and rebooted my phone.
Then it popped p again so I googled I should disable my ad preferences. but While I was looking through my google stuff I found a ton of these "modules"
I don't remember them being there before. Between the Chimera Virus and the Chimera tool floating around out there, and not being able to find good information on it..., , it makes me pretty paranoid.
I noticed in settings that I have these Chimera Modules in the bottom part of my google services info.
Does anyone know what those are and why they are there?
First of all, this would be better suited for the Q&A forum.
To somewhat answer your question, if I were to take a guess, something you installed, probably in the hopes of gaining root or unlocking your device, was either malware or a scam. There is a site for this tool which looks really shady. I've never heard of it, so I could be completely wrong. If I were you, I would uninstall your most recently installed apps and see if it goes away. Otherwise, I would do a factory reset to protect myself.
Would second the factory reset - if you're rooted I'd also take a scorched earth approach and wipe as much as I can within recovery just to make sure.
I found similar modules on my phone in Google Setting "[internal] section. But from what I can see inside it lists only packages from Google Services and after a bit of searching Google Services contains package with "chimera" in its name namely: "com.google.android.chimera.container.*". Therefore I think it don't have to be connected with any adware/spyware etc. you might have accidentally installed on your phone. Maybe it showed up lately on many phones with some update or it was there already for sometime? Waiting to hear about it from other users.
how can you make your ph delete what is added because ive got stuff on my ph & dont know what all has been added since i bought ph had 1 yr my furst i know nothing about them
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comprohacked said:
I have Chimera Modules "Listeners", "Stagefright" Virus, c.betrad.com, GPS Locations popping up in Las Vegas (The exact same time I'm sitting on my bed in El Cajon, CA) on a LINUX using Chrome 44.something, which is very strange, being as I only have smartphones to use that keep getting hacked and/or being destroyed by being rendered completely useless. There are files I didn't put on my device (s) and I can't access them, I've been completely locked out of email accounts I've had since my children were going into Junior High School. Countlesd, irreplaceable photos, cherished momentz and video are all gone!!! Our Precious Memories that only I took the time to capture, are not expected to ever be seen, again!! I just found out my Router has also been hijacked, I'm learning terminology I was never before interested in learning (and, really...I still am not...I am and app chick...I love trying and using new apps)! My calls, posts, texts,, emails have been intercepted and, responses have been returned as though I were compiling the messages in whatever form, now, none of my old friends will speak to me....so, I have no social life, anymore. I'm constantly being redirected elsewhere on the web, I passed background and DMV checks for both Uber and Lyft, but, I can't drive for them when even their Driver apps are badly compromised, that I cannot even get to the part of the app where I log on, I just keep being redirected!!! Since this all started about a year ago, I may spoken to an actual employee of my Service Provider....MAYbe 4 times...it took me a long while before I realized my outgoing calls were intercepted and I was speaking to an imposter!!! Oh and ALL of the so-called Antivirus apps are completely bogus and easily disarmed (while returning false results that your "device (or, apps or, files or, system, etc) are safe and virus-free"....and you are LOOKING AT THE VIRUS WORK ON THE APP AND YOU SEE ALL THESE REALLY MESSED UP COMMANDS IN THE LOGS AND URL STRING AND, PFOGRAMS, BUT your device is SAFE!!! UNfrkgbeLIEVABLE!!! This stuff is so REAL AND UNFRKGREAL!!! WTH???? You'll never catch these supervillain superbeings with their superintelligence who are on a supermission....I'm one of them. I had a lot of stuff here in this box, but I didn't copy like I usually do and now a huge chunk of it is gone. Nevermind, I'm not in the mood, anymore. Carry on with making me supermiserable in your superdon'tgivdadamn way. I'm just going to go to bed, watch YouTube, if you let me and, chill in a superchill way. Carry on, Carry on. By the way, Kaspersky didn't last e minutes of the first layer of attack by cyberthemfkngangsta...I'm telling you it Kaspersky was disarmed and effectively rendered disabled and wholly ineffective. Better come deep and loaded on brain grains...feeling much more powerful than your websites. Simple as that. Good luck.
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Hi comprohacked .. Its nice to know in not the only one .. I am a network engineer with a bachelors in computer science, so I'm much more familiar with the things I have seen. Fighting it has only proven to render my devices unusable, but it has been extremely educational for me. I can tell you some of the things vie learned so far: first of all they use UPnP and a vulnerability in Adobe to gain access. They even moved my Adobe from the programs list to my windows update list. They are very stealthy as my system event codes show them errorig out hundreds of times until they get a success, then continue, what they were doing was elevating their access beginning with default then user, up to admin, and continue until the have system access .. Basically as far as programs or anything else, its windows itself making requests. Then they use what's called a root kit, they actually flash your bios and create a second bios that can not see or access. They map your I/Os and reserve memory space on your periphials ad flash the ROMs of your video, audio, network card, USB ports and really everything else .. And while they take complete root control and ownership of all the hardware, they use network discovery to find every device, cell phones, playstations, Xbox,notebooks, routers, modems, anything connected and do the same thing to all of these, then set up a raid, meaning fault tolerance, or lets just call it a backup of each system on other systems on the network, that way even if you get passed the b
Mbr rootkit somehow, and somehow able to regain control of your PC or phone and reset it, they just put it back as soon as it boots up again. They basically sandbox you as a child environment, while they have a parent profile that overlays whatever they want you to see. They Grey out buttons for setting that can potential trip them up, proxy your web traffic .. They configure servers for your dns and the list goes on. You see on captures that your dns traffic is going out to your loopback address of 127. The will have small portion of your hard drive where they keep whats called metadata, lets just say they have backups of their backups .. Ive experienced everything you listed and more .. They use legitimate software from windows or google but hide the rest,and since they control the OS they tell the programs whrrr they can and canyon look.
These are nit kids doing it, it is far too advanced fir that, and with the language packages I would say nit just America, but several other countries . They eveN have bk
You described to a t exactly what I have on all of my devices. Can you share about what to do about it?
I'd like to drop some information about what your describing Phil, and some of the people/organisations connected with developing it, and how it has been used in the finance and trading sector. Can you or anyone suggest links to places on the web or ways I could do that? Effectively, so that the information spreads quickly.
Have u found a soultion
My husband and I are currently dealing with the same issue down to a t. Any more info on any of it so far?
Same thing
It started about 2 months ago. First i use comcast internet. Comcast was out front on the pole doing something idk cause i dont have neighbors an my internet was fine. Then a week later a public utilities truck was across the street on a pole that didnt have a transformer on it. They installed a box at the top. Proware technologies. I walked over to them and they hurriedly got down and left. I thought strange. So i went to my desktop and looked at my network and even wierder is i had a some pc connected by ethernet to my comcast modem that was sitting in front of me. I only have 1 computer hooked up by ethernet that i know of and can see only one cable to my pc. So i hurriedly copied all the info from mac address etc of the mysterious connected pc. After about an hour they had chsnged my name of hetwork and had hidden there pc. Theres a lot more that i wont blab on about but i think its the FBI. The box came down last weekend in the middle of the night- but i still cant get any internet company they all tell me they dont service my area when ive had them in the past. Im connected to sum modem i have no idea where cause its not the one i should be connected to. Its crazy. I feel crazy. Drives me crazy! Friends cell phones get all screwed up wen they come over. Its aweful. What can i do?
My wife and I have also had this same NOBUS level hack done to us and after 9 months I realized a few tricks that have shut them down several times but they always seem to figure some new hack to thwart my efforts until I finally took a screwdriver and shorted out my MOBO out of shear frustration. That seemed to work! Lol well now I do everything on my cell that I had to root to eliminate their emulated files and restore a custom ROM. As for the PC that is a harder nut to crack...
Thank God, I thought I was losing my mind,3 laptops, 2 cable companys and 3 different phones, and now these modules, my daughter thinks I'm nuts but I know what I see and I know what I have done, factory resets don't work, I keep changing my password info my wifi info even my numbers, if I'm not using my phone or wifi I keep it disconnected this is crazy, what's the purpose.
OK I've done some extensive research on this google play services chimera. It's not a bug or virus or . It's google play services latest secret weapon to control our devices. It's a container full of different modules. I've blocked some through amplify. They start as an alarm. Then turn to wakelocks. One is a system update server that runs continually while our phones try and sleep. Killing our batteries. I'm running Oreo Android 8.0 and have just recently started seeing this said activity. It's no wonder normal people that don't root their devices have no idea what these are. Being slipped in on updates. They know what we know and it's their efforts to go around that and try different things to regain control of anything computerized. Take for instance. Was talking in conversation the other day. Mentioned New Nike shoes. Low and behold next day it's in my damn Facebook feed. Uninstalled fb, that's just way to much for me. Hope this might help. But definitely not a virus
Oh my god i am so glad i found this i am crying. I literally thought i might be insane. Been dealing with this for over 2 years but has lately gotten worse by a mile. For now I'm just relieved I have company. I do not believe it is Google. There is a "real" Google out there and everytime I interacted with them they were helpful. Currently though I'm connecting to some imposter "Google" in India. I also have comcast but the router in my basement is NOT the one I am connecting to. Everyone thinks i am a lunatic when i tell them any of this. I kept seeing the term Firefly come up and it feels important
Same same
Comprohacked and ppl below. Exact same thing has been happening to me for months. No one will help not even family. No one speaks to me. I knew nothing at all at first. Ive been scammed etc. Phone after phone. About 30 this yr. I dont know if this will work because everytime i type something om a forum it never sends or theres always an issue with it redirecting etc. I dont even log onto google anymore om a new phone but theres still a hidden account connected and **** downloading itself. Photos get deleted. I have a daughter now and ive lost everything. Im embarrassed for her to see how lonely i am when she grows up. Its all government related. I do know that and how corrupt this world is. How google are allowed to do whateber they want. Im on medication now. I dunno if anyone has had any luck on how to claim there lives back but im just about done for good. Just thanks to everyone coz i know im not alone.
What the hell is going on in here? I feel like I'm scrolling through a conspiracy post on reddit or something. I need more info!
HackedInAz said:
My wife and I have also had this same NOBUS level hack done to us and after 9 months I realized a few tricks that have shut them down several times but they always seem to figure some new hack to thwart my efforts until I finally took a screwdriver and shorted out my MOBO out of shear frustration. That seemed to work! Lol well now I do everything on my cell that I had to root to eliminate their emulated files and restore a custom ROM. As for the PC that is a harder nut to crack...
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It's funny you say that. Not considering the other ways described previously in this post, I just knew my modem was the source of my issues, thinking I had eliminated all other possibilities. Ironically a screwdriver through the Ethernet device (not sure of exact terminology here) took a screwdriver through the center of it. Worked well for turning it into trash lol.
Targeted
You people who have been locked out of your own devices and online accounts...google "Targeted Individual."
Aight so I have this Samsung Galaxy J7 Max that I've been trying to unlock for more than 2 years now. I of course, don't want to lose the super important data it holds. It got locked out randomly and hasn't been able to take up the pattern I had put on it till date. I'm absolutely sure no one changed its lock screen pattern and its the phone that is unable to recognize the exact same password it had before this happening. I got hold of it today and yet again, started looking for solutions on YouTube and the internet itself. After all of my research, one thing is clear. There is only one way that the pattern lock can be removed in such a condition; by deleting this system folder called gesture.key that lies within the phone itself. I am by no means a nerdy software dev or something but I do have very little knowledge about these workarounds. I used an ADB via a cmd terminal to contact my phone. But it turns out that due to my usb debugging setting not being turned on in my phone, the adb didn't have the required authorization to make any changes to the target. I then got my phone into stock recovery mode and chose the Install through ADB option there. Now when I input the command adb devices, the prompt showed me my device ID, but instead of the "unauthorized" indicator beside it, it now had the indicator "sideload". I had no idea of what had to be done when such happens, so I tried the adb shell > cd data/system > su > rm *.key [taken from an XDA forums thread] commands again. But right on the second step it displayed error this time. I have tried using a key eraser via sd card too, but it just doesn't happen, the sd card folder in the stock mode does not display the contents of the folder.
Now the phone isn't being an obstacle in my life right now, but I really hope there's a way to fix it. Early help would be appreciated. Thank You.
If the data is super important why isn't it redundantly backed up?
Having a set lock screen and storing data on the OS is a sure fire way to lose data, eventually.
Maybe you'll get lucky... is that drive encrypted?
If not it may still be corrupted and unusable.
Don't put yourself in this position again... been there, done that
@blackhawk As I said, this was an absolutely random incident, had never even thought this could've been the case someday. Its not like the phone crashed and then this happened, I turned off my phone's display and the next time I woke it up, the pattern wasn't working anymore. Furthermore, the timed attempts that happen after 5 incorrect tries wasn't existing anymore. Now it could be that someone did get the timed attempts wrong as well [it isn't my own phone]. But I really don't see any other reason to that occurrence.
About the backups, I mean cmon, I was 15 back then, a medico student even more so. I never got my hands around backing up anything. But yes, have been backing up every single bit of data within these two years.
The storage drive shouldn't be encrypted. It was a regular phone bought online that had pdfs, images, recordings and videos stored. The google account was not that of the owner either! It was my uncle's account that was being used ever since he bought it. And since there was never a problem having used his account for quite a while, we never cared to change it to a new google account. Now my uncle's google account itself handles another device, his own phone, exact same model, Galaxy J7 Max. I have tried using his account at the Google Find My Device app to locate and unlock the phone that way [I hope you know it has the three options Ring, Secure and Erase Data]. But it happens so that the Secure phone with password option only for devices that have been lost and don't have a security lock already setup, which wasn't, unfortunately, my case. So that option was greyed out.
For the data corruption, you might be correct. But that phone still does receive SMS texts, calls, whatsapp texts and other notifications. They just don't show up on the lock screen anymore. I honestly had the "Screw the data, I'll erase it anyway" thought yesterday, but during my latest tries, I found the XDA forums website to be quite helpful. Had not it been the damn USB debugging, the solution I approached from this forum would've got the job done in a couple minutes. Again, if the data might've gone corrupted, I will erase the data [I mean I would have to]. But this little glimmer of hope that I experienced yesterday is what is preventing me from doing that. I really hope there is a fix to my situation.
@Chinmay47
a phone can get booted into these modes
Normal ( AKA Android OS )
Recovery
Fastboot
Sideload
EDL
Sideload mode is used to flash OTAs and/or ROMs.
Recovery mode allows you to perform some ADB actions as e.g. pull userdata, but this reqires ADB ( read: USB debug ) got enabled.
So my guess is you can't recover phone's userdata at your own, this would have to be done by an external service who can pull out phone's internal SD-card and has the forensic tools to read it.
@jwoegerbauer Surprisingly the idea of taking the phone to a forensic service struck me yesternight too. As you mentioned, since I can't recover the phone's data myself, all tips and tweaks on the web should now be struck off of my list of solutions. I'll leave the data to some forensic services then. Let's hope the recovery is worth the hassle. The thread is still open to more suggestions though. Thanks for the replies everyone. Really appreciate it!
Chinmay47 said:
@jwoegerbauer Surprisingly the idea of taking the phone to a forensic service struck me yesternight too. As you mentioned, since I can't recover the phone's data myself, all tips and tweaks on the web should now be struck off of my list of solutions. I'll leave the data to some forensic services then. Let's hope the recovery is worth the hassle. The thread is still open to more suggestions though. Thanks for the replies everyone. Really appreciate it!
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It not a card they can pull. More than likely it's on a BGA chipset, the hardest kind there is to work with.
If they can't access the data on/with the mobo they will have to unsolder the chipset without damaging it then put it into a test jig or another mobo (after pulling that mobo's matching chipset).
If they can access the data on the mobo, not so bad. Otherwise not so good.
Let us know how this plays out for you.
Here's one I found showing you this complex procedure: https://flashfixers.com/recover-data-dead-phone-chip-off-data-recovery/
They may be able to help you, but I have no personal knowledge of this company.
blackhawk said:
If they can't access the data on/with the mobo they will have to unsolder the chipset without damaging it then put it into a test jig or another mobo (after pulling that mobo's matching chipset).
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Actually thought of this idea right after a couple days from the beginning of the problem. Yes its gonna take loads of precision and patience but it does sound doable. Maybe that's what is gonna be the last option for the forensic service too in case, god forbid, they aren't able to do it the "simple" way. Can't say yet, but I'm gonna keep this thread updated with all the developments that take place.
Chinmay47 said:
Actually thought of this idea right after a couple days from the beginning of the problem. Yes its gonna take loads of precision and patience but it does sound doable. Maybe that's what is gonna be the last option for the forensic service too in case, god forbid, they aren't able to do it the "simple" way. Can't say yet, but I'm gonna keep this thread updated with all the developments that take place.
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If they need to remove the chipset the chances of failure increase. Flash memory retension is generally good for 10+ years but it may be damaged in the removal process if so, snake eyes.
Get price quotes up front for the whole process.
Once they got the phone, they got you by the balls. Not saying they aren't trustworthy but feel them out. If it's a couple hundred and you get the data back, you did good.
No idea of the cost though, my guess is $400-1000+ especially if they need to pull the chipset.
That's high risk even if they do it by the book.
If their policy is no data, no charge... expect higher rates to cover their loses.
@blackhawk All of that sounds kinda terrifying if you ask me. Well I mean, there is always a first option that can be tried without any mentions of pull-aparts. Yet I will surely judge the person well before I hand my device in his hands. I would try my level best to not take it to the critical stage, but if it needs be and there is a really high chance of losing my data, I can factory reset my data at home by myself too can't I? Future shall tell I suppose.
If you factory reset it all data will be lost.
It will not be recoverable!
If you want the data you will need to use a service like I showed you. They will need physical access to the phone to recovery the data.
The phone may be scrape afterwards
@blackhawk Sure does look like it would be! But paying to get your phone reset for you is way to harsher than doing it yourself. It is only in case the data is nearly impossible to recover that I'll reset the phone myself.
Chinmay47 said:
@blackhawk Sure does look like it would be! But paying to get your phone reset for you is way to harsher than doing it yourself. It is only in case the data is nearly impossible to recover that I'll reset the phone myself.
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Reset? Most likely destroyed.
Do you really want the data?
blackhawk said:
Reset? Most likely destroyed.
Do you really want the data?
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I actually do though. But well, if it ain't coming back then why wish for it. Yeah the data was really important.
Chinmay47 said:
I actually do though. But well, if it ain't coming back then why wish for it. Yeah the data was really important.
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Call them up and see what they say.
Since it's not physically damaged they may be able to access it none invasively.
blackhawk said:
Call them up and see what they say.
Since it's not physically damaged they may be able to access it none invasively.
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I'll do that and report back ASAP. Thanks for the help sire!
I have a A52 5g and a tab S7+ wifi, that are both remotely controled and monitored, and serve as gateway to my home network and basicaly every device connected to it. I noticed it at first and mew NOTHING related to this, didnt even know what open source was. Since then i have come to understand that, somehow, my phone seems to run a custom version of android, my guess is, built from AOSP and designed to disguise itself as oem samsung ui, but in background enables remote access and total takeover of every function. I have discovered, using total commander, that storage has been partitioned in 2 separate locations, and that one folder in there is called root system file, and filled with data/apk/installkits/etc.. this has me asking for help in 2 specific questions:
Am i holding a rooted device or is there another possibility that creates this situation? I was convinced its rooted untill i read here that root prevents from using samsung pass, secure folder etc.. and those seem to work on mine(or is it a version of those apps?) If its indeed rooted, will it wype everything if i flash it with the stock rom? And should i trust a small cell repair store to do that or learn how to do it myself?
2: i have bought 3 brand new phones since august, and made sure not to use my usual accounts, no use backups, not even set it up near my home wifi, and it almost instantly started self installing harmful software in background. I see no other way for it to link itself to be owned by me at initial setup, but for the sim card, new of course, but with my usual phone number and service transfered to it. Is that enough to make a breach and compromise a new device? If so, what would be different after fpashing the stock rom, if everything reinstalls itself? Do i need to change my number? Change cellular service provider even? I know its an unusual request but im a fast learner, i have compiled lots of technical info on specific apps, ip's, servers, build id numbers etc.. that i know would make more sense to anyone more qualified than me, and i am about ready to try and wype/flash the thing myself, i just would feel better with a little help since i have gone this far pretty much alone, since no service provider or manifacturer actualy feels like this is their problem to solve....
Here you can download firmware for your phone and flash with Odin, which you can also download at the bottom of the page, there are instructions on how to do it also.
Make sure to download correct firmware for exact device you have. There are few different A52 5G models.. SM-A526B, SM-A526U, SM-A5260, SM-A526U1, SM-A526W.
You will lose all data after flashing new firmware. After this your phone will be like brand new from Samsung..
If your device is rooted then that means your warranty is void and manufacturers and carriers are under no obligation to help you.
I'm trying to understand your situation but its so conflicting I don't know where to begin.
For example, you say your device runs a custom AOSP with a Samsung UI. Thats exactly how it actually works. Samsung take the AOSP, customise it with their own functionality, then overlay their own skin as the UI. Theres absolutely nothing unusual about that.
I'm conflicted as to whether your rooted or not. If the manufacturer or carrier has physically seen the device and won't repair it then that would suggest your definitely rooted. If you spoke to them virtually and told them your rooted then they will use it as an excuse whether you're truly rooted or not. The partitions you mention could be the internal storage and an sd card which can be seen non-rooted. I dont know what you mean when you mention a "root system file". Is it an actual folder called "root" or is the app you're using just telling you that you've reached the "root" of the filesystem? I can't quite work out what you mean. You also say Knox-powered apps still work which just adds to the confusion.
You stated you have had 3 new devices and they all self-installed harmful software. To get one device compromised is possible. To get three compromised means your either a high profile government target (which I doubt because they wouldn't be so sloppy as this) or your doing something to compromise your own devices such as continuously visiting dodgy websites.
Flashing will fix things but so would having a new device. The only common denominator is you so either you're doing something wrong or you truly are a government target in which case I wish you good luck!
First let me appologise for the long silence, i cut off most online activity for a while and just read your answers. To clarify, i have not solved my prolem yet. But ill try to explain better what you ask about my situation:
About de os version arobase40 got it right. I Asked google play help reps. And a stock samsung version of android would not trigger googles warning about running a custom version of android. So that point to a modified after-the-fact more than to the fact samsung has their propierary version installed.
About beeing rooted or not, ylwhat you are asking is what im not totaly certajn of, also. I know partition can happen without rooting, its seems to have created a "virtual sd card" since its named as such when sd card slot is actualy empty. About the root files folder, i cant say for sure, all i can say is that its holding a large amount of Gigs that dont get taken into account when looking at storage capacity and usage, and accessing that folder gives me a message that root files cant be access from this device. Does it mean my device had root acess privileges revoked to prevent viewing files that hide what is given control of the software remotely, so i dont find out or have the capacity to remove or alter those files?
What is absolutely sure is that if it is rooted, it wasnt done by me. As for the chance the devices were not factory brand new, 1 of them was not, got it opend box from amazon, a saudi arabia version, but my prkblems had started months before getting it, did not keep it more than 2 months, and all others before and since are 100% pure factory new, some directly from my cellular service provider, as financed device came with 2 year agreement of service,(actualy 2 of them i got this way) and the last one is my tab s7+ i got online directly from samsung canada website, on preorder, delivered on release day.
And lastly the fact i cant seem to shake those persistent leeches, is not from having reckless habbits online, but from having careless and uneducated habbits before that all started, usual older lazy dude stuff, like not changing my wifi password after a ruff breakup with bipolar psycho ex gf, or having only a few passwords reused on most my accounts. I have stopped doing those things long ago now that i know better, but i suspect that i could have been unaware something gettnng installed and staying dormant for a while, maybe? The ex had way more opportunities than needed to do something like this and is more than psycho enough to realy do it also. For having the skills to do it, lets say she has "assets" that can easily get her guys willing to help about that. It may also be coming from somwhere else, but as you say im not a super spy or a high ranking gov. Official. Im not even that interesting, and have absolutely no usable id for fraud or anything, my credit history would raise more red flags then there is in all china. So after so long struggling with this still very active, i cant even think of a rational reason to do so much effort into this, theres nothing to gain, i only can imagine that maybe a twisted mind seeking revege, or with a sick way of amusing themselves could see the point to all that, but i dont realy care. I only want to get rid of it.
As for the way it manages to be so much persistent, i can only see one option left i didnt remove from the process, and its through my phone number/account on the sim card, even a new sim on a new phone, still is linked to my cell service. I did initial setup with only that new sim card, accounts freshely created during setup, with no info or anythink linkable to my previous accounts, and even did it sitting outside, far from any building that could get me in range of a wifi network. And it still was no more effective at staying secure.
Thats why i did not yet try to flash a stock rom myself on my device, because it would, at best, become exactly like it was when brand new, and i know that this is not enough to keep it secure, and that means theres still something im missing in the whole picture.