I seem to get reduced maximum capacity even after fresh battery replacements.
Most recently I purchased a new replacement battery from iFixit. With this new battery, just like the previous one I bought a year ago from Amazon, my phone charges the battery to a what seems to be around 80% of its capacity. The maximum voltage when reported charge reaches 100%, as reported by the phone, is 4.225V (according to multiple apps). Capacity as measured by AccuBattery is around 80% or 2800 mAh.
I've tried many things, such as the battery calibration multiple times (both method 1 with USSC codes, and something like method 3 which iFixit recommends), without any major apparent improvement.
Things I am wondering:
Should the battery voltage when at 100% charge be closer to its rated 4.4V than the maximum 4.225V my phone is seemingly able to reach?
Can I expect to see improvements if I keep going through a few cycles of battery calibration and full charge/discharge?
Is there any other way to reset the phone's perception of battery capacity or wear than the battery calibration options?
I found another thread with a similar description to my own experience here.
In 3 years I have replaced battery 4 times, now something odd is happening.
I'll make a note to dig out my old USB tester and check how much total juice is pushed into the phone with a charge from <5% to 100%.
More details of my battery history for more background and for anyone interested:
I used the original battery from purchase in late 2018. My charge pattern for the first 2 years was typically charging to 100% every night, and topping up during the day as necessary.
During winter 2020 it performed terrible in the cold (not any extreme cold, only around 0 C), and once drained from around 80% to 35% in less than an hour of continuous use (photos, filming) and then died. After this I changed my charging pattern to where I was keeping the phone from exceeding the 70-40% range as much as possible.
In December 2021 I purchased a replacement battery from Amazon (supposedly original). The original battery was reportedly at 80% capacity says AccuBattery. How reliable that measurement is I don't know (it is all data reported by the phone itself as far as I understand), but the capacity had gradually decreased over the three years of use. I can't recall the voltage readings though, and I don't seem to have any screenshots saved from that view.
The new battery didn't ever seem to be able to exceed the capacity of the 3-year-old original battery (which had gone through over 1,100 charge/discharge cycles as tracked by AccuBattery) that it replaced. It's more stable (especially in cold conditions) but has not brought any increase in usage time compared with the battery it replaced.
With the now 10-months-old Amazon battery, having gone through less than 400 charge/discharge cycles according to AccuBattery (which is relative to the max capacity of approximately 2800 mAh or 80%), my phone in the past month gave me the pop-up notice indicating a poor battery. The capacity reported hasn't changed much over these 10 months of use.
Update with USB tester and comparison with a Samsung Galaxy S5 Neo.
TL;DR: 2800 mWh is the new 3500 mWh
First, S5 Neo.
I have an old S5 Neo, last of its era of Samsung phones with easily replaceable battery. I purchased a new battery for this phone from iFixit in the same order as the S9+ replacement battery.
S5 Neo's battery is rated at 4.4 V (3.85 V nominal) with a 2800 mAh capacity, or 10780 mWh. Depleting the battery and making sure the phone would no longer switch on with the power button, I charged it from 0% to 100%.
After slowly charging for 3 hours at just below 4.8 V and 750 mA for most of the time, the USB tester showed 10780 mWh, and the phone showed 92% charge. At the 3h 30min mark, shortly after reaching 100% (I didn't catch it perfectly), USB tester showed current had dropped to 350 mA and total charge delivered was just over 12000 mWh. After another 10-15 minutes the charge current dropped to zero and total power delivered showed 12326 mWh.
The S5 Neo phone, using the app GSam Battery Monitor while the phone is otherwise idle, it shows an internal battery voltage reading of 4.38 V when fully charged, still plugged in and trickle charging. Once it's saturated (charging icon disappears) the voltage drops to 4.33 V.
Going by the USB tester results and progress shown by the phone, and with the assumption that the battery is able to be charged to its full rated capacity with this old phone, the battery charged to capacity with an efficiency between 87.5% and 92%.
I also captured a few mid-way readings. Here is the complete list of my captured readings including comparison to rated capacity assuming perfect efficiency (with extrapolated total charge for levels below 100%):
100% (charging current at 0.0 A)12326 mWh~114% of rated capacity100% (still charging)12062 mWh~112% of rated capacity92%10780 mWh11717, ~109% of rated capacity81%9291 mWh11470, ~106% of rated capacity62%6440 mWh10387, ~96% of rated capacity33%3160 mWh9575, ~89% of rated capacity19%1868 mWh9831, ~91% of rated capacity
The extrapolated charge to reach max rated capacity is increasing as charge level goes up, which I think is kind of expected. Conversely, the efficiency is a little lower than I would have expected. Still, the total power required to reach 100% exceeds the rated capacity by a fair margin. Better still, the phone itself reports a battery voltage near the battery's rated 4.4 V.
Second, S9+.
As mentioned in the original post, the internal battery voltage max reading is 4.22 V, and the capacity seems to not reach the expected level. Checking the Battery status option of Diagnostics in the Samsung Members app to check the battery, it shows it is in "weak" condition. Resetting all the battery related readings using USSC codes (see battery calibration) doesn't seem to change anything.
The battery is rated at 4.4 V (3.85 V nominal) with a 3500 mA capacity, or 13475 mWh. With fast charging disabled, and after draining the phone until it powered off and would no longer power back on, I started charging via the USB tester. I'm using a Samsung travel charger this time, which delivers a little more current than when I charged the S5 Neo.
Charging starts out at just below 5 V and 1.5 A. Current quickly drops to 1.172 A, and somewhere between 33% and 50% it drops to 1.072 A. This current is stable until beyond 81% and then starts to gradually decrease throughput the rest of the charging cycle. (Actual charging current is slightly lower with screen off vs screen showing current charge level.) This I believe is indicative of the battery capacity (or perhaps rather the phone's perception or expectation of the battery capacity) is below its typical levels. It could also be a difference in how the S9+ charges compared with the S5 Neo, or perhaps less likely a difference between the chargers used, I can't really know for sure with only my two samples. In comparison, the S5 Neo kept charging at essentially the same current level between 0% and 92%.
Again, here are a few mid-way readings, as well as the extrapolated capacity assuming perfect efficiency:
N/A13475 mWhnever reached100% (charge current at 0.0 A)12341 mWh~92% of rated capacity100% (first reached)11982 mWh~89% of rated capacity92%11398 mWh12389, ~92% of rated capacity81%10053 mWh12411, ~92% of rated capacity62%7646 mWh12332, ~92% of rated capacity50%6174 mWh12348, ~92% of rated capacity33%4100 mWh12424, ~92% of rated capacity
Oddly consistent, this ratio between charged power and percentage charge, at around 92% of rated capacity throughout almost all of the charge cycle.
The total power required to reach 100% is very disappointing. Even assuming perfect efficiency, it is well below the battery's rated capacity. Assuming similar efficiency as the S5 Neo at around 90% translates to roughly 80% capacity at full charge. This mimics closely the estimates from AccuBattery, which shows 78% capacity after 12 "full" cycles.
To reach a "saturated" 100% requires equally much power for the S5 Neo as for the S9+, even though the S9+ should have a battery with 25% more capacity.
Now that I have externally validated that my 4-year-old S9+ is only ever able to charge my fresh newly replaced battery to 80% of its rated capacity, I suppose the optimistic view is that it's now a forced charge limit for substantially increased battery longevity. While this is functionality I do want, it is something I'd prefer to have the option to use, and with the ability to top up to 100% when necessary.
If I have the opportunity, I may drop by a Samsung service center and ask if there's anything I can do to reset the battery status, or retrain the phone's perception of battery capacity.
Thank you for coming to my TED talk, and have a great day.
Related
Hi,
Last night I purchased my S2 and am in the process of priming my battery. Could anyone tell me what is the standard (in the box) battery capacity that is achieved after the going through a few cycles of charge/discharge I should expect?
Coming from a HTC Desire HD, I am so far impressed with the S2, way better in every respect.
Thanks for your input
Didn't know the battery capacity could be variable in a battery... are you talking about battery duration?
Talking about the value reported in apps, the like of Quick System Info PRO, where one can see the state of the battery. For example, when my DHD arrived, batter was only at 3500mV. After a week of "training", a.k.a. priming of the battery, I reached full capacity of 4204mV when charged at 100%.
I am simply trying to establish where my battery is at today + how many cycles of charge and discharge it needs to span full capacity. Talking about this for example
Breaking In New Batteries - New batteries come in a discharged condition and must be fully charged before use. It is recommended that you fully charge and discharge your new battery two to four times to allow it to reach its maximum rated capacity.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
from here: ebatts(dot)com/batterytips.aspx
Anybody have tips on the subject? I was reading around and read multiple articles on this. Many said do not keep it on the charger after it has reached 100%. This poses a problem, because the G2 will charge from 0-100 in nearly 1 hour and 30 minutes, and i like to keep it on the charger while i sleep. Does the G2 have software to prevent this? It does say to please remove charger to conserve energy when its full.
Any replies are much appreciated
Sent from my LG-D800 using xda app-developers app
Well i read also that you shouldnt charge it to 100% frequently
2. You shouldnt let the battery charge drop under 20 frequently Before recharging
3. You shouldnt let the battery run out of charge frequently because our battery will get damaged if u do that quite often
so beware of this point
And they said it's not best to let the phone charge over night frequently
Sent from my LG-D802 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
I am no expert in this area - but this is what i do and i seem to get great battery life. i just looked, my device has been on battery for 3.5 hours and i'm still at 100% with usage in the following areas...
Google serviced - 29%
Android system - 22%
Screen - 17%
this is with wifi on, approx 5 min worth of voice calling, and several text messages, couple min of facebook and G+. i am not rooted, running stock launcher with most recent tmobile software update (unlocked and using it on Bell).
I hard reset my device once a month (minimum) - not sure if this does anything, but i am a little OCD when it come to my devices.
Before hard reset...
1. charge device to 100%
2. keep device plugged in for ~15 min after fully charged. The unplug.
3. hard reset device
4. once booted, plug device in a proceed to setup and install programs
5. unplug device once complete
During the day...
I always keep it charged up...i dont usually let it get below 75% (if possible). I'm always around a charger/plug at my work.
During the night...
1. charge device to 100% before going to bed
2. before you go to sleep, unplug device and put it in airplane mode
3. when you get up - turn off airplane mode and plug in for ~15 min or so
Again - im no expert, but this is working for me so imma stick to it!
It is not recommended to keep your phone plugged in after it has reached 100%. Only do it when you need an extra battery boost for the day (and that's hopefully not every day).
The general rule is to charge it from 40%-80% and that partial charges are better than full charges.
I really wish people would stop with the "don't keep it on the charger" nonsense which then makes people think they need to micromanage the charge cycle.
Charge early and often. Don't intentionally drain it down to some low percent, just charge nightly and you should be fine. If you're heavily using the phone, try to avoid dropping below 30%. Heavier discharges cause faster ageing.
And avoid keeping it in a hot environment, north of 30C. If it's your car GPS, keep a vent blowing cool air on it, especially in the summer. During the winter make sure a vent isn't blowing hot air on it.
Heat is probably the primary variable in battery life, followed by heavy discharge cycles.
Do whatever you want regarding keeping it charging after it's full. But disagreeing doesn't make your statement correct. I do agree with your statements about heat, however.
Sent from my LG-D802 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
just charge the thing and use it, I have a Samsung Galaxy S2 2-3 years ago the battery still going strong, most of you dont even own a phone past a year.
I usually make my phone go as long as it can. My previous phone, an iPhone 4, lasted almost three years.
Sent from my LG-D802 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
vPro97 said:
I usually make my phone go as long as it can. My previous phone, an iPhone 4, lasted almost three years.
Sent from my LG-D802 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the battery will last 3 years, its lithium battery, some people still own old phones like Iphone 4 and the battery still good.
battery is battery, just dont let it over heat and it'll be fine. stop trying to squeeze every second out of the battery and enjoy the phone...
I always thought it stopped charging at 100 but when it looses a little bit on the charger it charges it back. I thought that's why it said to conserve energy....as in energy from your house.
Sent from my VS980 4G using xda app-developers app
It's an established fact that keeping the phone at charged state between 40%-80% is most optimal (causes least stress) for the battery.
But of course, don't let that get in the way of your daily usage routine and cause you incovenience.
Battery is, afterall, consumable and is meant to be replaced.
I'm afraid there are lots of ill-informed people who insist that their batteries do not deteriorate. Congrats to them, they just find the solution that solves the global energy crisis.
How Often Should I Charge My Gadget's Battery to Prolong Its Lifespan?
http://lifehacker.com/5875162/how-often-should-i-charge-my-gadgets-battery-to-prolong-its-lifespan
If you like to get more technical, there's good information from the Pros.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Here's my notes from a few years ago.
--------------------------------------------------------
Li-Ion Battery
(From Wiki) During discharge, lithium ions Li+ carry the current from the negative to the positive electrode, through the non-aqueous electrolyte
and separator diaphragm.[7]
During charging, an external electrical power source (the charging circuit) applies a higher voltage (but of the same polarity) than that
produced by the battery, forcing the current to pass in the reverse direction. The lithium ions then migrate from the positive to the
negative electrode, where they become embedded in the porous electrode material in a process known as intercalation.
Prolonging battery pack life (from wiki)
+ Avoid deep discharge and instead charge more often between uses, the smaller the depth of discharge, the longer the battery will last.
+ Avoid storing the battery in full discharged state.
+ Li-ion batteries should be kept cool; they may be stored in a refrigerator.
+ The rate of degradation of Li-ion batteries is strongly temperature-dependent; they degrade much faster if stored or used at higher temperatures.
+ Li-ion has no memory effect.
+ Li-ion does not need to be fully charged.
+ In fact, it is better NOT to fully charge, because high voltages stresses the battery.
+ Li-ion cannot absorb overcharge, and when fully charged the charge current must be cut off =>
+ To minimize stress, keep the lithium-ion battery at the 4.20V/cell peak voltage as short a time as possible. (meaning do NOT overcharge)
+ Some portable devices sit in a charge cradle in the on position. The current drawn through the device is called the parasitic load and
can distort the charge cycle. Battery manufacturers advise against parasitic load because it induces mini-cycles.
What does that mean to us? Don't use when it's plugged in?
+ A portable device must be turned off during charge. This allows the battery to reach the set threshold voltage unhindered, and enables terminating charge on low current.
+ Li-ion should never be discharged too low.
+ Do not recharge lithium-ion if a cell has stayed at or below 1.5V for more than a week.
Simple Guidelines for Charging Lithium-based Batteries (from batteryuniversity.com)
+ A portable device should be turned off while charging. This allows the battery to reach
the threshold voltage unhindered and reflects the correct saturation current responsible to
terminate the charge. A parasitic load confuses the charger.
+ Charge at a moderate temperature. Do not charge below freezing.
+ Lithium-ion does not need to be fully charged; a partial charge is better.
+ Chargers use different methods for “ready” indication. The light signal may not always indicate a full charge.
+ Discontinue using charger and/or battery if the battery gets excessively warm.
+ Before prolonged storage, apply some charge to bring the pack to about half charge.
+ Over-discharged batteries can be “boosted” to life again. Discard pack if the voltage does not rise to a normal level within a minute while on boost.
Conclusion:
+ A portable device should be turned off while charging.
+ Avoid deep discharge and instead charge more often between uses.
+ Lithium-ion does not need to be fully charged; a partial charge is better.
G1_enthusiast said:
just charge the thing and use it, I have a Samsung Galaxy S2 2-3 years ago the battery still going strong, most of you dont even own a phone past a year.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've had (and still have) the Samsung Galaxy S2 for over 2 years, and I had to replace the battery a little over half a year ago due to the dreaded battery bulge (I could spin my battery on the table). So yes, batteries do go bad and they can go bad in a short period of time. And yes, if this happens to the G2 with its non-removeable battery, that really sucks.
beezar said:
I've had (and still have) the Samsung Galaxy S2 for over 2 years, and I had to replace the battery a little over half a year ago due to the dreaded battery bulge (I could spin my battery on the table). So yes, batteries do go bad and they can go bad in a short period of time. And yes, if this happens to the G2 with its non-removeable battery, that really sucks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
did you leave it in 150 degrees heat?
I almost always turn off my phone if I know its gonna be 100+ outside and 150 in my car. its commonsense.
votinh said:
Here's my notes from a few years ago.
--------------------------------------------------------
Li-Ion Battery
(From Wiki) During discharge, lithium ions Li+ carry the current from the negative to the positive electrode, through the non-aqueous electrolyte
and separator diaphragm.[7]
During charging, an external electrical power source (the charging circuit) applies a higher voltage (but of the same polarity) than that
produced by the battery, forcing the current to pass in the reverse direction. The lithium ions then migrate from the positive to the
negative electrode, where they become embedded in the porous electrode material in a process known as intercalation.
Prolonging battery pack life (from wiki)
+ Avoid deep discharge and instead charge more often between uses, the smaller the depth of discharge, the longer the battery will last.
+ Avoid storing the battery in full discharged state.
+ Li-ion batteries should be kept cool; they may be stored in a refrigerator.
+ The rate of degradation of Li-ion batteries is strongly temperature-dependent; they degrade much faster if stored or used at higher temperatures.
+ Li-ion has no memory effect.
+ Li-ion does not need to be fully charged.
+ In fact, it is better NOT to fully charge, because high voltages stresses the battery.
+ Li-ion cannot absorb overcharge, and when fully charged the charge current must be cut off =>
+ To minimize stress, keep the lithium-ion battery at the 4.20V/cell peak voltage as short a time as possible. (meaning do NOT overcharge)
+ Some portable devices sit in a charge cradle in the on position. The current drawn through the device is called the parasitic load and
can distort the charge cycle. Battery manufacturers advise against parasitic load because it induces mini-cycles.
What does that mean to us? Don't use when it's plugged in?
+ A portable device must be turned off during charge. This allows the battery to reach the set threshold voltage unhindered, and enables terminating charge on low current.
+ Li-ion should never be discharged too low.
+ Do not recharge lithium-ion if a cell has stayed at or below 1.5V for more than a week.
Simple Guidelines for Charging Lithium-based Batteries (from batteryuniversity.com)
+ A portable device should be turned off while charging. This allows the battery to reach
the threshold voltage unhindered and reflects the correct saturation current responsible to
terminate the charge. A parasitic load confuses the charger.
+ Charge at a moderate temperature. Do not charge below freezing.
+ Lithium-ion does not need to be fully charged; a partial charge is better.
+ Chargers use different methods for “ready” indication. The light signal may not always indicate a full charge.
+ Discontinue using charger and/or battery if the battery gets excessively warm.
+ Before prolonged storage, apply some charge to bring the pack to about half charge.
+ Over-discharged batteries can be “boosted” to life again. Discard pack if the voltage does not rise to a normal level within a minute while on boost.
Conclusion:
+ A portable device should be turned off while charging.
+ Avoid deep discharge and instead charge more often between uses.
+ Lithium-ion does not need to be fully charged; a partial charge is better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just because it is on a wiki does not mean it is correct. Anyone that purports that current flows from negative to positive, is clearly not an engineer, and thus not a subject matter expert (I stopped reading right there so excuse if I'm repeating).
Heat, be it from charging, discharging, or environment, and over discharge, or improper charging are the primary reasons batteries lose capacity. Lithium polymer batteries will lose some of its initial capacity after a thousand or so charge-discharge cycles, but this is very much dependent on the charging rate used to charge the battery. If the charge rate is 0.5C or less, there is much less capacity loss (if any) over time. Charge rates of 1C and over, generate significant heat that deteriorates the cell chemistry over time, reducing capacity.
If I can ever kill my battery enough, I'll throw this phone on my charge profiler at work to see what charge rate it uses.
BTW, my two year old GSII is on its original battery and lasts all day with 40% left at the end of the day. I charge over night with no ill effects, but I never expose the phone to excessive heat.
T
Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk 2
I slow charge my phone using a 500mA iPhone Cube brick and microUSB cable for overnight charging. Charging this way takes hours. I use quick charge in my car and office if needed.
A good charger should trickle charge once its 100% just to keep it up.
Sent from my VS980 4G using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
So our phones do not come with a good charger?
Sent from my VS980 4G using xda app-developers app
tedkunich said:
Just because it is on a wiki does not mean it is correct. Anyone that purports that current flows from negative to positive, is clearly not an engineer, and thus not a subject matter expert (I stopped reading right there so excuse if I'm repeating).
Heat, be it from charging, discharging, or environment, and over discharge, or improper charging are the primary reasons batteries lose capacity. Lithium polymer batteries will lose some of its initial capacity after a thousand or so charge-discharge cycles, but this is very much dependent on the charging rate used to charge the battery. If the charge rate is 0.5C or less, there is much less capacity loss (if any) over time. Charge rates of 1C and over, generate significant heat that deteriorates the cell chemistry over time, reducing capacity.
If I can ever kill my battery enough, I'll throw this phone on my charge profiler at work to see what charge rate it uses.
BTW, my two year old GSII is on its original battery and lasts all day with 40% left at the end of the day. I charge over night with no ill effects, but I never expose the phone to excessive heat.
T
Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You quoted my post to say that info on Wiki and Battery University is wrong? and giving an example of charging your SGS2 overnite with no ill effects to prove them wrong?
votinh said:
You quoted my post to say that info on Wiki and Battery University is wrong? and giving an example of charging your SGS2 overnite with no ill effects to prove them wrong?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like I said, I stopped reading the moment they stated the incorrect definition of current flow - if they got that basic tenant wrong, wasn't going to read further. Was not my intent to offend by quoting your post. My comment on the charging overnight was a general response to a prior post that leaving the device on the charger overnight was detrimental to the battery - probably should have quoted that post. In general, leaving an advanced device like a cellphone plugged into a charger will not overcharge a battery - a cheap toy will probably not have a proper charger and CAN damage a cell if left on for prolonged periods.
BTW, I'm an EE and design in Li-po batteries and chargers in my designs and I'm always dealing with non-technical marketing and sales folks to explain these types of details, so I tend to jump in when I hear wrong information (not saying the links contained false information) being discussed.
T
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
votinh said:
Here's my notes from a few years ago.
--------------------------------------------------------
Li-Ion Battery
(From Wiki) During discharge, lithium ions Li+ carry the current from the negative to the positive electrode, through the non-aqueous electrolyte
and separator diaphragm.[7]
During charging, an external electrical power source (the charging circuit) applies a higher voltage (but of the same polarity) than that
produced by the battery, forcing the current to pass in the reverse direction. The lithium ions then migrate from the positive to the
negative electrode, where they become embedded in the porous electrode material in a process known as intercalation.
Prolonging battery pack life (from wiki)
+ Avoid deep discharge and instead charge more often between uses, the smaller the depth of discharge, the longer the battery will last.
+ Avoid storing the battery in full discharged state.
+ Li-ion batteries should be kept cool; they may be stored in a refrigerator.
+ The rate of degradation of Li-ion batteries is strongly temperature-dependent; they degrade much faster if stored or used at higher temperatures.
+ Li-ion has no memory effect.
+ Li-ion does not need to be fully charged.
+ In fact, it is better NOT to fully charge, because high voltages stresses the battery.
+ Li-ion cannot absorb overcharge, and when fully charged the charge current must be cut off =>
+ To minimize stress, keep the lithium-ion battery at the 4.20V/cell peak voltage as short a time as possible. (meaning do NOT overcharge)
+ Some portable devices sit in a charge cradle in the on position. The current drawn through the device is called the parasitic load and
can distort the charge cycle. Battery manufacturers advise against parasitic load because it induces mini-cycles.
What does that mean to us? Don't use when it's plugged in?
+ A portable device must be turned off during charge. This allows the battery to reach the set threshold voltage unhindered, and enables terminating charge on low current.
+ Li-ion should never be discharged too low.
+ Do not recharge lithium-ion if a cell has stayed at or below 1.5V for more than a week.
Simple Guidelines for Charging Lithium-based Batteries (from batteryuniversity.com)
+ A portable device should be turned off while charging. This allows the battery to reach
the threshold voltage unhindered and reflects the correct saturation current responsible to
terminate the charge. A parasitic load confuses the charger.
+ Charge at a moderate temperature. Do not charge below freezing.
+ Lithium-ion does not need to be fully charged; a partial charge is better.
+ Chargers use different methods for “ready” indication. The light signal may not always indicate a full charge.
+ Discontinue using charger and/or battery if the battery gets excessively warm.
+ Before prolonged storage, apply some charge to bring the pack to about half charge.
+ Over-discharged batteries can be “boosted” to life again. Discard pack if the voltage does not rise to a normal level within a minute while on boost.
Conclusion:
+ A portable device should be turned off while charging.
+ Avoid deep discharge and instead charge more often between uses.
+ Lithium-ion does not need to be fully charged; a partial charge is better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does this wall of text pertain to lithium polymer as well? Consdering that is the type of battery in the phone not ion
Sent from my LG-VS980
I have been reading these days that some of you are starting to replace the battery of the Axon 7 after 1.5-2 years. This is something we all have experienced with phones, laptops, wireless devices, etc. About 2 years ago I researched on batteries and finally discovered how to avoid the degradation in Lithium-Ion batteries. I have applied it to my Dell XPS 13 Laptop and my Axon 7 with excellent results. Due to the recent proliferation of battery replacement I think this guide can be useful to extend the useful life of your battery.
Battery wear is something that can be reduced to almost nothing with proper charging habits. But there are some urban legends out there completely false. Lets review all them:
Do NEVER charge it over 90%: TRUE. The battery wears a lot when charging the last 10%. actually charging up to 90% takes about 10% of a degradation cycle while the last 10% takes 90% of the degradation cycle. Charging to 90%, only this trick, can reduce the wear of your battery to 1/10 or even more if you stop at 80%. I use to stop at 84%.
Do NEVER drain your battery completely: TRUE. The high current required to pull the energy stored in the battery when the level is so low requires more time per energy unit and that initial 10% wears the battery excessively. So taking care of that will save your battery too. I use to set low battery mode at 15% but I always avoid being so low. Please note that leaving the battery drained for too long can make it impossible to charge. IMPORTANT: If you are not going to use a device for some time, leave battery between 40-70%, not more, not less. If you do not do that, you can have an ugly surprise in case you need it again.
Quick Charge is bad for batteries: FALSE. It is actually the opposite. QC is a lot healthier since the battery is not heated for a long time. Heat is a problem too for the battery. So, try to avoid old charging units as possible and use only QC 3.0 chargers for car and home as much as possible.
Short charging sessions damage the battery: FALSE. A number of small charging sessions in the healthy region between 20-80% battery level is healthier than a long session for several reasons, the most important is that the battery temperature never rises that much.
I have been doing this in my devices and my Axon 7 retains the same energy storage as new after 18 months of healthy charging habits. These advises are also applicable to laptops and any other device using a Li-ion battery. As you can see, leaving your phone plugged at night will kill your battery very quickly the same way a laptop battery wears quickly when left plugged. I am lucky my Dell XPS 13 has a battery control software/firmware that allows charging to stop at a desired value automatically so I can have it plugged without actually charging. I was looking for a similar solution for the Axon 7 and I found it some time ago.
It was very annoying being on top of the device taking care of the battery level when charging. There are some apps out there that monitors the battery level while charging and signal an alarm when the desired maximum charge level is reached. But we are lucky!!!! The latest Custom Oreo Kernels for the Axon 7 support the charging_enable switch and we can use now Battery Charge Limit App to modify the max battery value. Two main values can be set, the max allowed charge and the recharge level. The first one is the most interesting since the charging will stop at that level. I have 84% set here but any value between 80%-90% is safe and healthy for your battery. The second value tells the system to avoid starting a charging session if the value is still above the second threshold. It is designed to avoid rapid charge/discharge sessions. Usually a value between 4-8% under the max value is safe and healthy. I have this second value set to 79%.
With this daemon your battery will never reach 100% and with it you will avoid excessive battery degradation. It worked for me so I hope you could benefit of it too. On the other side, just avoid drain your battery too much and do not fear short charging sessions during your car commuting time or while in the shower, etc... These little tricks sum and you will save the money and damages in your unit replacing a battery you probably could have avoided with proper battery care.
Cheers!!!!
Some are not false urban legends at all. On the contrary I see lots of false claims with no source evidence.
Limiting by percentage still allows the battery voltage to reach higher shorter lifespan voltage. See that limit apps thread for discussion on limiting by voltage through Tasker instead. Further do you know what voltage that percentage idles at? It varies by device implementation setup.
Here's some information on voltage level health.
"Additionally, when the cathode voltage rises past 4.2 V, the electrolyte begins to oxidize (and ultimately decompose). This effectively limits present-day lithium-ion batteries to a maximum voltage of 4.35 V with the understanding that the “bad stuff” begins to occur past 4.0 V, and becomes unsafe past 4.35 V."
https://qnovo.com/why-battery-vendors-are-hitting-the-wall
Got a reliable source for quick charge not harming battery life? I've only seen marketing material and such claims repeated but not any research or scientific sources.
Sent from my ZTE Axon 7 using XDA Labs
Infy_AsiX said:
Some are not false urban legends at all. On the contrary I see lots of false claims with no source evidence.
Limiting by percentage still allows the battery voltage to reach higher shorter lifespan voltage. See that limit apps thread for discussion on limiting by voltage through Tasker instead. Further do you know what voltage that percentage idles at? It varies by device implementation setup.
Here's some information on voltage level health.
"Additionally, when the cathode voltage rises past 4.2 V, the electrolyte begins to oxidize (and ultimately decompose). This effectively limits present-day lithium-ion batteries to a maximum voltage of 4.35 V with the understanding that the “bad stuff” begins to occur past 4.0 V, and becomes unsafe past 4.35 V."
https://qnovo.com/why-battery-vendors-are-hitting-the-wall
Got a reliable source for quick charge not harming battery life? I've only seen marketing material and such claims repeated but not any research or scientific sources.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the info. However it is not easy to control the voltage of the cathode and the OP guide tries to use the available tools.
If you never fully charge how would you know if it's capacity is still near maximum?
I've kind of followed this idea for a while now ..
I always charge to a full 100% but never let the battery go completely flat ...
My Moto G is still running the same battery from new ...
My Axon 7 running Oreo is getting 4 days before it needs to be charged at normal usage..(recharge @ 15%) at the end of day 4
I get 6 days in standby
Oki said:
Quick Charge is bad for batteries: FALSE
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I switched to old weaker chargers (0.5 - 1.0 amp) as there's almost no noticeable heat at all while charging, and I've found this extends the battery life as well. If any/all heat is bad, then aren't short bursts of high heat (3.0 amp QC) worse than long periods of little/no heat (0.5 - 1.0 amp) ?
Sure...
Most all of those "tips" are hogwash.
Modern day charging is handled by the phone. If there's something that hacked that algorithm in my phone, then so be it. :fingers-crossed:
Few years ago I did some research on Lithium-Ion batteries (which behave differently from other kind of batteries, such as lead acid ones for example) and I second all the conclusions by OP. If you are interested on the matter and to understand how batteries work, check this site: https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/ the explanations are crystal clear.
Disclaimer: I have no whatsoever association with the website.
Has anyone checked the ROG phone "Battery health" on AccuBattery Pro? Mine is showing Estimated Capacity as 3,548 mAh, Design Capacity 4,000 mAh. I completely discharged then charged to 100% as calibration. Brand new phone.
Mine is showing 3,531mAh after around a week of usage.
Someone should report this on the Asus forums
mine also show 3500mah after 2.5 weeks of use
I have posted this issue on ASUS's Forum
https://www.asus.com/zentalk/thread-249329-1-1.html
Please feel free to add your battery capacity screenshots on their forum so we have a reference for the future
Mine's at 3462 after a little over a month. With a health of 87%
OK, then. We shouldn't be concerned. The proper way to measure battery is more complicated than what AccuBattery does (the proper way involves measuring battery discharge at a controlled rate). Since many of us are getting similar readings on AccuBattery, it's probably that AccuBattery's method isn't accurate.
MichaelCaditz said:
OK, then. We shouldn't be concerned. The proper way to measure battery is more complicated than what AccuBattery does (the proper way involves measuring battery discharge at a controlled rate). Since many of us are getting similar readings on AccuBattery, it's probably that AccuBattery's method isn't accurate.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same here: 3536 mAh 88% health with Accubattery first charge out of the box after discharging to 15% following first power up.
Either Accubattery has a problem with our phone, or Asus is ripping us off.
If the batteries were bad, we'd all have different readings.
I am guessing the AI charging might affect the measurement from AccuBattery. However I also don't think the battery capacity is full 4000 mAh. My last phone from Motorola has a 3000 mAh battery on the spec chart, but the battery itself prints 2810 / 3000 mAh (min/typ). From the ROG phone tear down videos, this battery isn't marked though.
From the asus zen forum the only solution the person provided was to bring the device to a service center to get it tested
I maybe wrong however with batteries these days it only ever uses a percentage so that there is redundancy for failure and to preserve the battery life.
iStasis said:
I maybe wrong however with batteries these days it only ever uses a percentage so that there is redundancy for failure and to preserve the battery life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Samsung does that. Note 9 is 4000mah but Accubattery says 3800mah on new phones. Every one of them.
Power reserve to not kill the battery early.
Anyway, 3500 mAh seems like one heck of a left over reserve.
Our batteries should last 5 years at least
Same "problem" here, but maybe it is because program has small amount of gathered data about battery usage. I did full discharge and full recharge yesterday, and goz about 3567mAh, but ill try to calibrate battery and use measuring app for longer time to get more accurate results.
Ps: I am using only slow charger to avoid overheating to eliminate battery damaging when recharging
I have not checked my ROG Phone in any 3rd party apps as I have not had a reason to question the 4,000 MAH
It is not a problem, lithium ion battery deteriorate faster if kept fully charge all the time or when discharged to low. Since most people have the bad habit to plug their phone all the time and keep them full for a prolonged period of time, oem have to be creative to fight this. Some will show your battery is charged at 100% while in reality its only charged at 90% .That is what your program most likely reading.
lithium ion should only be charged at 100% before you leave the house, i tend to keep mine between 50 and 90 usually . With quick charge there is no reason to keep a phone plug overnight, 10-20 min before leaving the house is plenty.
I have turned on AI for battery charging and as soon as my Battery reaches 100 it stops charging which is good enough for me to have faith in the charging technology in the phone and battery capacity.
I do leave mine plugged in over night however with the right equipment to check its hard to get a good understanding of whats happening. Theres inbuilt battery health tools so i would always advise using these and going through the features of this over 3rd party jank applications and trust them. Its the only tools Asus are going to support in any diagnostic troubleshooting.
Hi guys, I am returning after some time of usage and charging. After some charging cycles I have to admit my battery capacity is "increasing" - well better say, it is getting used to be charged properly. Now I passed 7 full charging cycles, but after 3rd one every next charge had more mA. I started at 3479mAh with full battery, now I ended with 3711mAh - hope it gets even better (I'll be glad for at least 3800, but who knows?). Everytime I tried to charge only when I was below 3%.
I have to say I am using slow charger with 5V and 400mA current. Battery checker from mobile manager was not detecting any issue with this way of charging nor AccuBattery Pro. I also know, that batteries shall be charged only about 80% of its capacity, but I am still sceptical about that rest 20% so I am charging to max everytime.
Hope I helped...
...another time passed and I am back with another results. After a lot chrging cycles I am stuck at between 3500-3700mAh of total capacity. I was searching around whole internet and found out, that phone manufacturers are "decreasing" battery capacity with SW at 90% of total capacity to prolong battery life and avoid battery wear, because everytime you charge the phone, you think you are charging to 100%, but in real you are charging to 90% only - rest of 10% is "hidden" to save your battery life - due to my calculations and testing it might be true. Anybody else had something different, so we can compare it?
I've just started cycling with accubattery will post when I get some solid data but seems battery has lost some capacity already only had it since November 5
Hellindros said:
I've just started cycling with accubattery will post when I get some solid data but seems battery has lost some capacity already only had it since November 5
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Heres mine so far only a few cycle's in but I've lost quite a bit capacity
Bought my S9+ in March 2018, changed battery 4 times
Installed battery#1 in Dec 2018 (Battery made in 2018 Feb) it was then charging up to 3300 mAh according to Accubattery
Installed battery#2 in Dec 2019 (Battery made in 2018 Feb), again I was able to acheive around 3300 mAh at full charge
Installed battery#3 in Jan 2021 (Battery made in 2018 Feb), battery could only charge up to 2700 mAh, suspect it was a faulty battery, so bought battery#4 which was made in mid 2020.
Currently Accubattery is suggesting battery#4 can only hold around 2600 mAh.
Which of these following scenario is most likely?
1. Samsung security patches are preventing the phone to charge the battery fully, even though it displays 100% at the top.
2. I was unlucky that both battery #3 and #4 are faulty/ not new as suggested
3. Other hardware inside the phone is perventing the battery to charge fully
Many thanks in advnace for your opinion.
Did it ever occur to you, that what you leave on will cause your battery to drain so fast. Using these apps to monitor battery is imop a waste of tme and probably one of which is actually using a lot of you battery... My battery has been in my phone since it was made back in 2018. My battery last all day long.. At night I turn off wifi, data, location when I'm sleeping.. When I get up in the morning I have a 100 percent charge.. It can stay this way most of the day, until I start using it. But While I work most time it is never used. In the day only turn crap on that i'm going to use, then right back off when done.. Also how many apps do you leave running in the back ground.
vinylpimp_UK said:
Bought my S9+ in March 2018, changed battery 4 times
Installed battery#1 in Dec 2018 (Battery made in 2018 Feb) it was then charging up to 3300 mAh according to Accubattery
Installed battery#2 in Dec 2019 (Battery made in 2018 Feb), again I was able to acheive around 3300 mAh at full charge
Installed battery#3 in Jan 2021 (Battery made in 2018 Feb), battery could only charge up to 2700 mAh, suspect it was a faulty battery, so bought battery#4 which was made in mid 2020.
Currently Accubattery is suggesting battery#4 can only hold around 2600 mAh.
Which of these following scenario is most likely?
1. Samsung security patches are preventing the phone to charge the battery fully, even though it displays 100% at the top.
2. I was unlucky that both battery #3 and #4 are faulty/ not new as suggested
3. Other hardware inside the phone is perventing the battery to charge fully
Many thanks in advnace for your opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you charge the battery to its actual peak capacity then there's a much greater chance that you will over charge it and reduce its lifespan so software can stop charging it when it's close to 100% to make the battery last longer.
You are using the phone while it's charging and using apps to measure the battery stats do use more battery power and these apps can also give you a false reading sometimes. You also have other things in the background and probably have other things enabled and this uses power as well so you're wasting your time by monitoring the battery.
I never changed the battery in my phone and I get nearly identical battery life now compared to 3 years ago. Still lasts me a whole day.
Accubattery doesn't use much power* but Galaxy Labs Battery Tracker is better to track app battery usage. Accubattery has useful info including real time milliamp usage. It's history let's you easily see when you're exceeding what is your normally hourly usage.
You can't overcharge an LI on these phones. However as you increase the voltage of the cells, it causes exponentially more wear.
Best to limit the top charge to 65-80% and a discharge cut off of 30-40% to reduce the battery strain if possible.
Li love frequent midrange charge/discharge cycles. It can extend their lifespan over 100 fold.
Cold charging should be avoided; it can cause Li plating which will permanently degrade the battery. Charging is an electrochemical reaction that needs heat.
Battery should be at 72°F preferably 82-90°F at start of charge cycle. Never attempt to charge if at or below freezing.
Charging (100F), discharging(90F) and storing Li (40-70F) at high temperatures increases wear.
For long term storage a charge level of 50-80% is best to reduce wear. Allow 3%@month for self discharge and do not allow them to fully discharge.
After the phone does a low voltage auto shutdown you have about 1-3 weeks to charge the battery before its internal controller shuts it down permanently.
Typically there's 5% left before the critical cutoff voltage.
Could be less; charge asap.
*best to firewall block it after setup. I use Karma Firewall.