Related
Can anyone tell me how the size of the page pool affects
1. Stability
2. Speed
3. Available memory after a soft reset.
With my limited info, I believe it to be the case that with a *higher* page pool, you get more OS stability, more speed, but less available memory for other apps to run. Would that be correct?
it depends
some ppl like Big PP
some ppl do not
Huh? I'm not asking what people like. I just want to know what effect a larger or a smaller page pool has on those 3 things. So, no one knows?
Well i am back at WM5 now. Made a 2MB pagepool rom.
Stable
Fast
Free memory after boot : 36MB
imparator said:
Well i am back at WM5 now. Made a 2MB pagepool rom.
Stable
Fast
Free memory after boot : 36MB
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WOoowwWw thats what i call free ram!
cand you do that on touchv3?
Or you can give us a guide how to do it??
imparator said:
Well i am back at WM5 now. Made a 2MB pagepool rom.
Stable
Fast
Free memory after boot : 36MB
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, you claim that a very low p.p. will increase both stability and speed? Why do we have larger p.p.'s then?
no,large page pool,more speed,small page pool ... guess what ) and dude,wm5 sux...
zeroed said:
no,large page pool,more speed,small page pool ... guess what ) and dude,wm5 sux...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please explain why WM5 sux
in my opinion a big page pool is not really faster.
ok, some apps start faster but the free ram is too low.
with lots of free program memory you can keep running all your important apps and you don't have to close and start them every time.
so with always opened apps your daily usage of your ppc should be much more fluider than with a big page pool and only 1x mb free program memory.
i hope i could explain it with my sucking english
You do make a point, but most people prefer to close their apps all the time.
Its like with windows desktops, some people have 50 windows open in their taskbar and some only 2 or 3.
If you are one of the people that like opened apps your right, I like fresh app starts so I prefer a nice 8mb pool size
Kaoh said:
You do make a point, but most people prefer to close their apps all the time.
Its like with windows desktops, some people have 50 windows open in their taskbar and some only 2 or 3.
If you are one of the people that like opened apps your right, I like fresh app starts so I prefer a nice 8mb pool size
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hehe, i have two LCDs connected to my pc, so that everything fits onto the screen. so i am a 50 windows guy
for more details i refer all of u to this post
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=321912
I tried hard to keep up with wm6, tried hard , all possible tweaks.So finally the other day, I thought of going back to WM5 and really it is much much stable, no soft resets, no hangups.Hard to get used to the wm5 interface as compared to the glossy wm6, but performance is what I desire, and now my apps open in seconds, memory leaks are minimal, audio in BT also goes well.
I really wonder, why WM is not fully compatible with Athena.All other devices it works like a charm, why not in Athena.
I think wm6 is quicker and more stable than wm5. I reset more often in the past.
Which wm6 ROM were you running? What applications were you using? It may be one or two applications giving you the problem.
Not much apps, I like to stick with the given apps.Use Windows Live, builtin Opera, sometimes may b NetFront, I do not play games, Skype, I use.That's it.
If u compare the speed of execution of these programms with other devices running wm6 such as Universal,Hermes, Kaiser, Blue Angel, and if we have the fastest processor 624 Mhz, it shd surpass the programe execution time.
WM6 I hv observed that, initially, it works well, but as the use goes on , it tends to slow down, and even it takes a lot of time to make a phone call, after I press "Talk".
I get 150 calls a day on an average fews Texts, few emails, 24 hrs connected to GPRS or Wi Fi whichever is available.
It is a suprise that Blue Angel reacts faster than athena to similar apps, and execution is very good and fast in devices like Hermes,Kaiser, Universal....all Running WM6, either official or cooked ones.
I really fail to understand, why such a thing with Athena.
Where do you install applications?
What does the sktools performance benchmark tells you about your card and MD.
How did you format your drives?
Do you regularly clear up the cache in opera?
How large is your contact database?
Sorry this seems like a so many questions, but there must be a cause of your problem which is not related to wm6. I say that because I've far far more applications than you, all running okay. I do avoid certain applications. Examples include the latest version of ilauncher.
No problems to me with your questions.Once I had decided to us a Virgin wm6..as it is, no apps, still the problem persists.You won't believe, but I wud have changed 5 Athenas so far..but the problem with the speed persists.
My contatcs data base is quite small, opera cache is by dafault is 2 mb, so it gets cleared whatever is more than 2 MB.
If same I use in the other devices as mentioned, I do not face any problems, so far BA and Univeresal has been the best performances, Hermes and Kaiser follow...and Athena is my primary phone, I do not use any other or second phone.
hdubli said:
No problems to me with your questions.Once I had decided to us a Virgin wm6..as it is, no apps, still the problem persists.You won't believe, but I wud have changed 5 Athenas so far..but the problem with the speed persists.
My contatcs data base is quite small, opera cache is by dafault is 2 mb, so it gets cleared whatever is more than 2 MB.
If same I use in the other devices as mentioned, I do not face any problems, so far BA and Univeresal has been the best performances, Hermes and Kaiser follow...and Athena is my primary phone, I do not use any other or second phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then I guess it must be a question of expectation.
I've just looked up. BA is using WM2003, isn't it? Well, that explains why it is so fast. I have a very old WM2003 device that feels like a speed demon too. That brings us back to the old debate of whether or not microsoft made the right move by going int persistent memory, which if I ask me now, I'd still prefer the old approach.
Your Universal has been soldered with additional memory, has'nt it? Do you think this is the reason why it is so fast?
If you've used so many units of Athena and found speed problem with every one of them, when nothing has been loaded yet, it probably means you're expecting WM2003 speed on a WM5/WM6 machine. I'm doubtful that going back to WM5 will solve your problem, because from my experience, WM6 does seem faster.
Not sure where this leaves you and not sure how else to help though.
Hi,
I know that and understand your motive and respect that.If u check carefully, BA can b updated to wm6 aku 7.7
Also I hv uni with 128 ram, but 64 also runs quite well.
Can u imagine I am replying to this thread from Opera Running WM 5
Crispy and fast enough..and I feel the differrence.
Anyway I will try oncemore and report back
I still havent found a WM6 device that can surpass the BA in raw speed (also with WM6)
uni gets quite close tho!
Midget_1990 said:
I still havent found a WM6 device that can surpass the BA in raw speed (also with WM6)
uni gets quite close tho!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In your expert opinion, why is this so? What is special about BA that makes it fly? Does the faster speed also apply to internet surfing too?
3rd day with WM5
-Only one soft reset
-Memory lowers to 70 Mb from 81 MB,use SK tools and rever it again.
-pmsn works great and fster.Skype is also more responsive.
-I think we all here shd give it a try and also research why this is so.Really WM5 wins as far as Athena is concerned.
Guru Try Dopod
hi GURU try dopod wm6
or try aptouch dual Virgin
Hey guys i think this should be an important challenge to overcome maybe find out where all the ram is going and get it back without reseting our precious moguls. My experience its something that Task manager doesn't show up because when i end task on my DCD 3 1 2 ROM i dont get all of my memory back like right after reset. Also this causes inconvinient problem of starting GPS after few days of RAM going down to 8mb and not having enough to lunch TOMTOM.
Oxios doesn't not regain full mem only one third of it.
Can we some how make a better task manager or maybe purge RAM?
Writing a driver to consider our FLASH cards as constant RAM?
I would gladly sacrifice remove ability of my MicroSD for extra 4 gigs of ram and would let my memory leak on a period of roughly 4 years of constant usage.
Please lets get organized and stop hoping the next ROM upgrade will solve this issue.
This is one of the biggest downfalls of the mogul
I would suggest looking into how RAM works before making this thread.
First off, most of our ram appears to be lost due to memory leaks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_leak
And since, at least in my experience, most of the memory leak comes from Windows 6 (and so much worse in 6.1), you can't exactly end the windows task unless you...
restart the Mogul.
So no, an application, or task manager, wont do you any good. Not until they fix windows 6.1 up to not be lord of memory leaks. That is why new roms are often so desired, because only a rom release with some decent version of 6.1 with hopefully some patched memory leak holes could help our problem.
Second, you can't use a flash drive as ram, at least its not reasonable. You think the Mogul slows down now? Wow, just wait to you see it moving at the blistering pace of a microSD card.
Ram is so small, and so expensive, largely due to its speed. Thats why you can buy a 500GB HD for about the cost of 4GB of RAM on your computer.
Also, running from the MicroSD would be similar to the page file on your home computer. It runs from, in most cases, your C drive, its a fairly large file, getting even larger when you run multiple tasks on a low RAM system.
It is slow as a dog, and is one of the worst causes of system slowdowns. I also believe that MicroSD's have a limited number of read/writes. While not an issue so much for everyday use (taking pictures, running an app from time to time), if it were used as a swap file, it would probably wear out that SD card pretty quick.
So no, short of an amazing, simple amazing, piece of software engineering on Microsoft's part on a new Windows Mobile, someone developing some sweet, easy to install ram upgrade, or the new replacement for the Mogul coming out with more ram than we know what to do with.
You will be restarting your Mogul.
It should be possible to wright a Driver to USE RAM for swap file and some of main drivers but MicroSD card to be used to run all the extra features and programs. Also why our team of coders cant plug the memory leaks or find out the runing programs not seen by Task manager and have option to close them?
PS
Thanks for confirming my worst dream about the limits of our mogul. Also I notice that PPC on palm trios seems not to have these memory leaks.
This is maybe possible if we can build a tool that can reboot the shell without rebooting the actual OS. It can be combined with the command to free the memory when the OS is unloaded. This is my theory, i think that we can recover memory like this
VulnoX said:
I would suggest looking into how RAM works before making this thread.
First off, most of our ram appears to be lost due to memory leaks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_leak
And since, at least in my experience, most of the memory leak comes from Windows 6 (and so much worse in 6.1), you can't exactly end the windows task unless you...
restart the Mogul.
So no, an application, or task manager, wont do you any good. Not until they fix windows 6.1 up to not be lord of memory leaks. That is why new roms are often so desired, because only a rom release with some decent version of 6.1 with hopefully some patched memory leak holes could help our problem.
Second, you can't use a flash drive as ram, at least its not reasonable. You think the Mogul slows down now? Wow, just wait to you see it moving at the blistering pace of a microSD card.
Ram is so small, and so expensive, largely due to its speed. Thats why you can buy a 500GB HD for about the cost of 4GB of RAM on your computer.
Also, running from the MicroSD would be similar to the page file on your home computer. It runs from, in most cases, your C drive, its a fairly large file, getting even larger when you run multiple tasks on a low RAM system.
It is slow as a dog, and is one of the worst causes of system slowdowns. I also believe that MicroSD's have a limited number of read/writes. While not an issue so much for everyday use (taking pictures, running an app from time to time), if it were used as a swap file, it would probably wear out that SD card pretty quick.
So no, short of an amazing, simple amazing, piece of software engineering on Microsoft's part on a new Windows Mobile, someone developing some sweet, easy to install ram upgrade, or the new replacement for the Mogul coming out with more ram than we know what to do with.
You will be restarting your Mogul.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
while every single statement you say is true, your only wrong about how long ti takes to wear out a flash device. According to Toshiba, the inventor of Flash memory and one of the top suppliers of Flash memory chips, the 10,000 cycles of MLC [Multi-Level Cell] NAND is more than sufficient for a wide range of consumer applications, from storing documents to digital photos. For example, if a 256-MB MLC NAND Flash-based card can typically store 250 pictures from a 4-megapixel camera (a conservative estimate), its 10,000 write/erase cycles, combined with wear-leveling algorithms in the controller, will enable the user to store and/or view approximately 2.5 million pictures within the expected useful life of the card.
For USB flash drives, Toshiba calculated that a 10,000 write cycle endurance would enable customers to completely write and erase the entire contents once per day for 27 years, well beyond the life of the hardware.
take into note that is only 10,000 write cycles. 100,000 which is common for most flash drive now a days. so no, he wont even be around to see the day his flash drive even wears out. LOL.
Glad to see this post picking up some steam But lets Try and focus on making A solution rather than discussin known facts
the known facts have already pointed out the problem (memory leaks in the OS) and the only solution we have without the source code (restart the OS by rebooting the phone) so what else is there to discuss?
oh yeah, we can talk about ways to get the source code so we can fix it.
well i posted one idea:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2257436&postcount=4
I loaded DCD 4.1.2 and liked it. I was REALLY excited about the new 6.5 ROM. While I haven't built my own ROMs, My little mogul has been cooked more times than I can think of.
Here are my thoughts on these two ROMs
DCD
Pros:
GREAT memory and management: 26 mgs available at boot:
I can run Audio Manager, Live Search, Netfront browser, and send and receive text....with neither of them closing.
Cons:
See Pros below
Windows 6.5
Pros:
Integrated Touchflow.
IE8 with Flash
It really does seem faster for some things.
Cons:
Terrible memory and management. Even with Manilla NOT loaded, I only have about 19.5 megs at boot up (even with Hibernate). I can only run one program at once (basically).
Conclusion:
I would rather have the memory than IE8.
Thanks for the info. I love DCD roms, but I'm really wondering about this new WM6.5 rom. It would be nice to hear some more comments from others about each. Thanks!
Not so much an opinion as an educated comment...
I think that you are going to find that WM6.5 (and IE8) are just plain designed for devices with more RAM than the Titan's 64MB. It's a hardware limitation that is just going to be difficult to get past. Compare it to running Vista on an older desktop box with only 512MB of RAM... it will work, and look pretty, but it will be very limited. Vista (and WM6.5) were designed around hardware that is unfortunately higher horsepower than older machines like the desktop I used as an example above (in the case of Vista) and the Titan (in the case of WM6.5) have.
It'll be fun to play with (I haven't tried it yet) but expecting it to be a reliable daily driver on the Titan is probably asking a bit much. I found the same thing with Opera 9.5... it is beautiful, and the best mobile browser I have ever seen, but the Titan just can't run it effectively (without the low memory errors).
were getting pretty close on the memory but your right the 6800 got the shaft on the ram dept.
don't know why you have memory issues.. when I build WM6.5 without M2D
I get 25.6MB FREE ram .. without Hibernate..
and even with M2D loaded and 18.8MB free at bootup, I am still able to run
google map, sms\mms and IE plus Activesync running .. with no issues..
also runs my TomTom without any issues.. plus 6.5 runs faster as well overall..
granted as you keep loading more apps if you go to task mng, just by opening
task mng. it close some apps .. if you flip to and from your apps you'll see they
are still running .. well my experience anyways...
I use my phone just like if its a PC .. hell this post if from my phone.. the new IE is damm sweet...
sudermatt said:
I loaded DCD 4.1.2 and liked it. I was REALLY excited about the new 6.5 ROM. While I haven't built my own ROMs, My little mogul has been cooked more times than I can think of.
Here are my thoughts on these two ROMs
DCD
Pros:
GREAT memory and management: 26 mgs available at boot:
I can run Audio Manager, Live Search, Netfront browser, and send and receive text....with neither of them closing.
Cons:
See Pros below
Windows 6.5
Pros:
Integrated Touchflow.
IE8 with Flash
It really does seem faster for some things.
Cons:
Terrible memory and management. Even with Manilla NOT loaded, I only have about 19.5 megs at boot up (even with Hibernate). I can only run one program at once (basically).
Conclusion:
I would rather have the memory than IE8.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It might be better to compare WM 6.5 to Windows 7 instead of Vista.
Running Windows Vista on an old/slow computer is a horribly bad idea. However in beta testing Windows 7 I installed it on a Celeron M laptop with only 1gb of ram and it ran like a dream (without Aero). My boot up and loading times were equal to XP. So if WM 6.5 is designed correctly, it could work just fine on our devices.
The only thing that has me hesitating on 6.5 is that from reading the threads where this was first posted, this a very early release. Since it seems there will be a production version from MSFT floating around within another few weeks, maybe these memory issues will be more manageable, with perhaps some additional features? And no doubt there will be a DCD 6.5 eventually as well, either with this version or a later one.
Serious Props to those that are working hard to get it going now, but I have a feeling there will be better to work with in the near future.
mr-free said:
don't know why you have memory issues.. when I build WM6.5 without M2D I get 25.6MB FREE ram .. without Hibernate..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you mean without hibernate? I guess that might be a noob question sorry. 25.6 would be even better than DCD roms. Wow.
hibernate refers to oxios hibernate which releases memory to help make your phone run faster
sudermatt said:
I loaded DCD 4.1.2 and liked it. I was REALLY excited about the new 6.5 ROM. While I haven't built my own ROMs, My little mogul has been cooked more times than I can think of.
Here are my thoughts on these two ROMs
DCD
Pros:
GREAT memory and management: 26 mgs available at boot:
I can run Audio Manager, Live Search, Netfront browser, and send and receive text....with neither of them closing.
Cons:
See Pros below
Windows 6.5
Pros:
Integrated Touchflow.
IE8 with Flash
It really does seem faster for some things.
Cons:
Terrible memory and management. Even with Manilla NOT loaded, I only have about 19.5 megs at boot up (even with Hibernate). I can only run one program at once (basically).
Conclusion:
I would rather have the memory than IE8.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WM6.5 beta 4 has great memory management. I have been testing it for 17hrs now and am just blown away by its speed. IE8 is awesome. No more WM6.1, I have moved on, you will too, trust me.
ebb said:
The only thing that has me hesitating on 6.5 is that from reading the threads where this was first posted, this a very early release. Since it seems there will be a production version from MSFT floating around within another few weeks, maybe these memory issues will be more manageable, with perhaps some additional features? And no doubt there will be a DCD 6.5 eventually as well, either with this version or a later one.
Serious Props to those that are working hard to get it going now, but I have a feeling there will be better to work with in the near future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the main part of 6.5 is done .. whats left is the interface, the build number
will may go up once the interface is added however there is no memory issues
I know of .. other than the first few beta 1-3 release that has the nueKernel
(a 3rd party programs that cause memory issues .. not the 6.5 kernel !!)
that add was removed from beta-4 and no more issues ..
Also note, after the new interface is added to WM6.5 I believe it will be strip out anyways
at it will be built for VGA or higher PDA's and even if there is a QVGA version
its going to require a ton of memory anyways!! what you will be left with is
whats out now anyways!! thus DCD 6.5 may end up being on this same built!!
vickylife007 said:
WM6.5 beta 4 has great memory management. I have been testing it for 17hrs now and am just blown away by its speed. IE8 is awesome. No more WM6.1, I have moved on, you will too, trust me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
x2 ..
check this thead http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=477525
I've had my suspicions about this since I first got the Droid X2. I think it may be possible for much of the lag many (most/all?) people experience at some time or another.
As a test, I can check free RAM in Advanced Task Killer when I first boot up the phone, and it will hover somewhere 150 megs with all user processes killed.
Then, when I check after 24 hours of constant use (with intermittent charging periods) I will struggle to get 100 megs with all user processes killed.
Finally, if I reboot the phone, I will be able to obtain a decent amount of freed-up RAM again.
Anyone experiencing anything similar?
Now, I must mention, I'm operating under the assumption that the X2 does not cache apps or files in the RAM. I suspect there is too little RAM at such a minimal speed to be able to clear RAM fast enough in the event that something non-cached is called on. I mean, even Microsoft was slow to use this cache method, as they first introduced it in Windows 7. A good example of this in Windows 7 is if you check the Task Manager, you will see that roughly only a quarter of your RAM is ever actually labeled as "free", even if you currently have no programs open or are using minimal amounts of RAM.
And it certainly doesn't feel as if the cache is working as intended if Motorola did infact implement it on our phones.
I have contimplated over this for quite some time and have also came to the same conclusion. But the real question is: What can we do about it?
Most likely nothing.
Not sure of this is actually the case but when V6 is ran for instance it does talk about cached apps and gives an "actual" free ram reading. I would guess that zepplinrox would not have worded it that way if it was not the case but I have no real evidence either way.
Sent from my DROID X2 using xda premium
This did happen to me when I ran Advanced Task Killer on cm7. I'd start with a very good 190 free ram (insane I know) and after a few hours I'd struggle to brake 110
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2
This is the nature of Android and Linux in general. When you start an app (or a process), it will remain in memory until it is cleared by the OS. The problem with task killers and Android 2.3.x and above is this: Android 2.3.x and above RESPAWN the killed task since the OS did not kill it. Plus, there is no way to FORCE to OS to kill an app that is in the background. What Android does is renice the process until it is a positive number, greater than 1, then it kills the process. Android 2.3.x was designed to "auto manage" those tasks. If you run htop from an ADB session and launch apps and use the back button to back out of them, you will notice that the amount of free memory diminishes. Then, after sitting for a time, the amount of free memory slowly begins to increase. When an app that requires a bunch of memory is launched, the Android will kill those background apps to free up more memory. In theory, it is a great way to manage the memory. In this respect, apps that have been launched in that past will start up faster. Personally, I like having control over things. You could possibly write a script that will renice a process to something like +20 and then Android will kill it automatically, but that would be a very risky prospect as it might kill RUNNING foreground apps as well.
Hope this little explanation helps!
Ciao!
DX2 Version History lesion / Android Process Cache
theredvendetta said:
I've had my suspicions about this since I first got the Droid X2. I think it may be possible for much of the lag many (most/all?) people experience at some time or another.
As a test, I can check free RAM in Advanced Task Killer when I first boot up the phone, and it will hover somewhere 150 megs with all user processes killed.
Then, when I check after 24 hours of constant use (with intermittent charging periods) I will struggle to get 100 megs with all user processes killed.
Finally, if I reboot the phone, I will be able to obtain a decent amount of freed-up RAM again.
Anyone experiencing anything similar?
Now, I must mention, I'm operating under the assumption that the X2 does not cache apps or files in the RAM. I suspect there is too little RAM at such a minimal speed to be able to clear RAM fast enough in the event that something non-cached is called on. I mean, even Microsoft was slow to use this cache method, as they first introduced it in Windows 7. A good example of this in Windows 7 is if you check the Task Manager, you will see that roughly only a quarter of your RAM is ever actually labeled as "free", even if you currently have no programs open or are using minimal amounts of RAM.
And it certainly doesn't feel as if the cache is working as intended if Motorola did infact implement it on our phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your question is a bit complex. See back when Droid X2 first was released it had 2.2.3 for most users, and didn't have very good application memory management. This was the start of many applications such as "Advanced Task Killer" that you mentioned. These apps were supposed to help in closing apps that were running all the time.
Things changed a bit with the Gingerbread (2.3.3) release. This initial release made the Droid X2 useable. In my opinion the DX2 prior to Gingerbread was nearly a brick! I had many reboot issues, FC, connection issues, GPS issues, etc. With 2.3.3 many issues were eliminated, while others were reduced enough that they didn't bother me TO bad.
2.3.4 came out to fix battery issues largely...
Now I realize you weren't asking for a history lesion, but it is useful to know these things to know where things were and where things are today. I am currently running 2.3.5/412 and have been for months. I can say from experience, Android DOES cache background processes. I thought it did back in 2.3.4, but i can't remember... I don't think it did back in 2.2.x or at least the OS didnt' inform the users via GUI.
Your question about performance though? Yeah the DX2 is crap! I love the physical layout, but it has MANY issues with performance... some have been reduced by doing build.prop edits, yet I have realized that many who post these edits have posted wrong.... for example, they are increasing the buffer sizes thinking this will help internet speeds. This is super complex, but Google "Buffer Bloat" and you'll see how larger buffers often mean greater throughput, but MUCH greater latency....
simply put... big buffer == faster download of individual files.... smaller buffer == slightly slower download but MUCH more responsive
I'm not sure if that answered your question or not... let me know how I did or if I just rambled perhaps =P