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dated before January 19th 2003
Subject: XDA Display
From: Kamil
Date: 18 Jan, 2003 22:51:49
I'm thinking of buying a XDA but I have one question I need
answered before I do :
The XDA is very much like other PPC's (iPAQ, Casio, Toshiba).
The main difference (compatibility wise) is the display. The XDA
can only display 4096 colours while other PPC's can display
96000 colours (aprox). Will this difference pose a problem with
applications and games designed for non-XDA PPc's?
Thanks in advance....
Kamil
With the forum's new software my message kind of got lost on the second page. A little boost to bring it to your attention again. Hope you don't mind
Kamil
Screen and keys
The fact that the screen can only do 4096 colors doesn't really matter for anything but photos, IMHO. The problem with using some games is the fact that some of the iPaq keys are missing. Mame, for instance, runs, but you cannot use it because you cannot push the coin button.
I'm sure this can be fixed, but haven't had a chance to really look at it.
The latest version of MameCE has incorporated a hack made by one of the guys over on the PPCThoughts forum to allow button remapping, which is a workaround for the button issue.
However, many games (such as the Capcom releases) don't work, and that is a definite problem, as mentioned above.
To return to the topic, the screen's 12-bit nature is only really noticeable when looking at photos - it's fine for games. And in fact, for everything else, it's one of the nicest screens I've used. ClearType looks amazing. Obviously, it's not transflective, but you can't have everything: 64MB RAM, SDIO, Bluetooth...
You should also be aware that there are only two backlight settings: on and off. Not a problem for me, but it may be for you.
I'll stop rambling now.
I've played Lara Coft Tomb Raider on the xda without it spoiling my pleasure
However, two buttons aren't mapped is a bit of a pain.
I haven't come across any PPC applications where more than 4096 colours are mandatory.
Call me sad if you will, but.
I played a version of strip video poker by cherrysoft.
When you seen a naked woman in few colours (and few clothes) something is lost in the translation!!!
there are sites out there offering a 64mb upgrade thus allowing more colours. Although the $100 plus shipping is putting me off....
That programs deleted now onto the next!
MmF
More colours?
I don't think the 64Mb upgrade will offer more colours. Will it?
No. The 64MB upgrade does not replace the screen.
http://www.geek.com/first-look-qualcomms-new-fairbanks-and-anchorage-mobile-platforms/
The anchorage with its tasty 1ghz processor seems like it might be a easy replacement for the x7500. Who knows when it will arrive and in what shape internally. Some nice xp or linux action on the anchorage might be nice.
I saw that too, and am really interested in getting more info. However, I would still like it to run window mobile, hopefully wm7. XP will be a bad news for me. XP is simply not appropriate as a mobile, from the viewpoint of battery efficiency, software availability, instant on capability, etc. I'll be disappointed if it is Linux, as third party software just isn't good enough.
150% agree with eaglesteve.
I do hope that by the time these devices come out, WM7 will be out AND that it will, finally, fully support VGA and higher resolutions, and provide a truely ergonomical and good-looking user interface without the need for heavy tuning.
That will make the GHz processor more than a marketing argument in my opinion.
Thanks for the heads-up !
HeartOfDarkness said:
150% agree with eaglesteve.
I do hope that by the time these devices come out, WM7 will be out AND that it will, finally, fully support VGA and higher resolutions, and provide a truely ergonomical and good-looking user interface without the need for heavy tuning.
That will make the GHz processor more than a marketing argument in my opinion.
Thanks for the heads-up !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By that time iPhone 2.0 will be out and this will be a moot issue. I say this as a Windows Mobile user since the original TMobile PPC phone. I mean, I really like my Advantage, but it's crazy how much time I have invested in it to get it to work like it should have from the first. The iPhone is not for me right now -- much too limited -- but when I watch my friends use them they actually work! And quickly! When the iPhone goes to the next generation, watch out! Not looking for a fight, just chatting.
wgary said:
By that time iPhone 2.0 will be out and this will be a moot issue. I say this as a Windows Mobile user since the original TMobile PPC phone. I mean, I really like my Advantage, but it's crazy how much time I have invested in it to get it to work like it should have from the first. The iPhone is not for me right now -- much too limited -- but when I watch my friends use them they actually work! And quickly! When the iPhone goes to the next generation, watch out! Not looking for a fight, just chatting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
IMO phone is more for demonstration than actual utility. It is too tightly controlled by Steve Job. There isn't the same openness to foster third party software. Without the richness of third party software and choices, what you bought is what you get. It will always be limited relative to winmo devices. With winmo, each of us is able to change the device to our very individual taste.
I won't underestimate the power of microsoft to bring about a really good hand gestured based OS that works really really well with mobile devices, and that will heap frog the competition. May be wm7 feels like a late start, but I get the feeling that it will be solid.
wgary said:
By that time iPhone 2.0 will be out and this will be a moot issue. I say this as a Windows Mobile user since the original TMobile PPC phone. I mean, I really like my Advantage, but it's crazy how much time I have invested in it to get it to work like it should have from the first. The iPhone is not for me right now -- much too limited -- but when I watch my friends use them they actually work! And quickly! When the iPhone goes to the next generation, watch out! Not looking for a fight, just chatting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let's see what Apple will be coming up with. Looking at their reputation, it will be something unexpected. However, to see is to believe.
yetdy said:
Let's see what Apple will be coming up with. Looking at their reputation, it will be something unexpected. However, to see is to believe.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
a 1ghz processor on a wm6 device is pretty pointless if you balance out barely-noticeable speed upgrade over loss of battery life. I have found the difference between windows mobile machines to be more about individual tweaks than the power of the processor: i certainly wasn't wowed by the Athena's performance after upgrading from a Hermes.
One thing windows needs to get right in the next upgrade is that it needs to LOOK AND FEEL NICE, and be EASY TO USE. This will take the windows mobile platform out of the nerd/office exec market and into the mainstream, something that just cannot be done at the moment despite the valiant tweaks of HTC with the Touch series.
Windows Mobile is fine for me, I'm used to it, but for the novice it's long-winded.
The performance of Windows mobile is abysmal when lined up against Linux and especially Apple machines: look at the smooth menu systems on Iphones, and the way the integrated pinch zoom mechanism fluidly drifts in and out. No programmer on earth could acheive these results around the current windows mobile architecture, this despite the fact that the Iphone has a 620mhz ARM processor comparable to the Athena's.
The Iphone is also capable of rendering web pages more reliably than the Athena - the only drawback in this respect is its meagre Edge connectivity.
Linux on the other hand has lots of potential:With open-source development, and loads of easily-ported software it's interesting to say the least.
Haavard Nord, the CE of a big mobile Linux developer recently said " if you want to build a phone using the Microsoft operating system it is pretty restricted what you can do with the user interface due to the licensing agreement between the customer and Microsoft. Microsoft wants to make sure everyone knows it’s a Windows Mobile phone so it limits what branding you can put on the phone."
This could cause problems for microsoft: the pda market is known to be decreasing, while Symbian continues to develop a huge foothold in the market.
If the capabilities of Symbian and Linux continue to develop then I see a great market loss for Microsoft unless they buck their ideas up and start WORKING with their manufacturers.
Get out of the fricking dark ages Microsoft before you screw up big time.
ONly a few weeks ago, leoni, I would have agreed with you about pretty much everyting but now, I have to say that WinCE (the "heart" of Windows MObile) is FAR from being that bad performance-wise, now that I have had the opportunity to dive deep into it (at work).
It's actually Windows Mobile that sucks, which basically is CE + crappy GUI, not Windows CE, and it's WinCE that you have to compare with LInux and stuff. Because Linux by itself may be cool, but you will not be able to run very heavy GUIs like Enlignhtenment on current mobile devices, however great Linux may be.
MY POINT being: WinCE is an extremely solid, fast and reliable OS. Simply looking at how 90% off all autonomous GPS run under WinCE, and knowing that the fastest of them are equipped with 300 MHz processors should convince you of that.
Look at what HTC, which is NOT a software company by far, managed to do for the Touch line in pretty much the blink of an eye.
It's the Windows Mobile team that needs some extremely heavily applied butt-kicking. Both because they still do not understand that people want simplicity and beauty on their mobile device, but also because they want to stick, absolutly, to this "Windows Desktop-like" GUI.
I *think* Microsoft finally got the message. But as they're also trying to converge all their OSes, the future is quite uncertain...
As to the iPhone 2... It's both way too remote, and way too "locked-down" a system to work for me... If Apple wants to have someone like me interested (and I don't mean they should necessarily, but we're talking about how Apple could please me with the iPhone2), they need to review their content management policies.
i agree with you that CE underpins a great many devices we use everyday. I'm sure it's not ce which is at fault, however it needs to be understood that running a basic satnav or epos system isn't the same as running an effective graphics-heavy mobile device.
Another point i don't entirely agree on is about the touch gui - this has nothing to do with winCE, it is an extension to wm6. They did a good job, but it's no miracle! Like i said, windows mobile in the end ruins it, since as snazzy as touchcube and touchflo look on the face of it you invariably end up back at the unfriendly and stylus-dependant windows gui.
On the whole i think you are right in that it is the windows mobile programmers who are at fault, but eaglesteve's boundless optimism is possibly unfounded as these programmers have had YEARS to make the interface nicer and improve the user experience and have patently failed to do it.
Wm6 is inherently the same as all the rest but for bug fixes and some tweaks, what's to say wm7 will be any better?
I really hope they see sense, but who knows? It could be that they've seen the market lead symbian is getting in the mobile arena and are content to release windows mobile updates only for the hardcore. They might not see themselves as competitors to apple and nokia in this field. I hope i'm wrong...
Fl3.0 has just been embedded into the N95 8gb firmware. This means that N95 8gb users have FULL ACCESS to youtube and other flash sites. Nokia are already ahead of the game, and despite the limitations of a qvga, non-touchscreen device it seems that not only will N95 users have a better video and multimedia playback device than Athena users but also full, uninhibited access to most websites.
I see a microsoft-killing PDA on the horizon.
leoni1980 said:
Fl3.0 has just been embedded into the N95 8gb firmware. This means that N95 8gb users have FULL ACCESS to youtube and other flash sites. Nokia are already ahead of the game, and despite the limitations of a qvga, non-touchscreen device it seems that not only will N95 users have a better video and multimedia playback device than Athena users but also full, uninhibited access to most websites.
I see a microsoft-killing PDA on the horizon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've already seen N95. You would have to hold a gun against my head to make me use it as an internet browsing device. It does not have an acceptable input method. It does not have an acceptable screen. The browser is too slow as compared to Athena's.
It's true that Athana could not access classical youtube without first downloading it, but there is still youtube mobile that you can use.
The Anchorage will be even better than Athena, I'm sure, although I have not have enough info on it. It is at least a device that has GPS, Phone, Camera, PDA, Wifi, Bluetooth all in one, and stays with the mainstream winmo environment, with the widest choice of third party software. That's why this is going to be such a interesting device to watch.
When it is released, I think Leoni you will abandon your N95/N800/Asus eee solution immediately and go for this, despite your negative attitude toward anything microsoft now.
eaglesteve said:
I've already seen N95. You would have to hold a gun against my head to make me use it as an internet browsing device. It does not have an acceptable input method. It does not have an acceptable screen. The browser is too slow as compared to Athena's.
It's true that Athana could not access classical youtube without first downloading it, but there is still youtube mobile that you can use.
The Anchorage will be even better than Athena, I'm sure, although I have not have enough info on it. It is at least a device that has GPS, Phone, Camera, PDA, Wifi, Bluetooth all in one, and stays with the mainstream winmo environment, with the widest choice of third party software. That's why this is going to be such a interesting device to watch.
When it is released, I think Leoni you will abandon your N95/N800/Asus eee solution immediately and go for this, despite your negative attitude toward anything microsoft now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The N95 renders pages just as quick as the Athena - trust me I've owned and burned out every device under the sun! its drawback is - I agree - the screen size and input method, but given that I only use it for short-term browsing and checking information it is more than capable. It allows me flawless access to more web pages than either of the Athena's browsers do too.
the Anchorage is just a mocked-up device. It will never be released, and was simply designed to show off a new chipset from Qualcomm which has lots of snazzy features. The site linked on this page is somewhat misleading.....
The Snapdragon chipsets will obviously hail marked improvements on performance, but they are more than capable of running Linux AND (if rumours are to be believed) full windows OS. With this in mind I fail to see how this has any bearing on my experience of Windows Mobile. For a decent Windows experience we will have to wait for number 7 and I doubt that will be backwards-compatible with older applications since it's going to be a total overhaul.
leoni1980 said:
The N95 renders pages just as quick as the Athena - trust me I've owned and burned out every device under the sun! its drawback is - I agree - the screen size and input method, but given that I only use it for short-term browsing and checking information it is more than capable. It allows me flawless access to more web pages than either of the Athena's browsers do too.
the Anchorage is just a mocked-up device. It will never be released, and was simply designed to show off a new chipset from Qualcomm.
The Snapdragon chipsets will obviously hail marked improvements on performance, but they are more than capable of running Linux AND (if rumours are to be believed) full windows OS. With this in mind I fail to see how this has any bearing on my experience of Windows Mobile. For a decent Windows experience we will have to wait for number 7 and I doubt that will be backwards-compatible with older applications since it's going to be a total overhaul.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I suppose we just have to disagree over the N95 versus Athena's ability to deliver good internet browsing experience.
You said the Anchorage will never be released (not may never be released). What makes you so certain?
I have no qualm with using Linux if it has the same array of quality software. I heard that the GPS software on N810 is a piece of crap, for example. I have never come across any website that indicates I can get third party software at this moment. It may be true that more software will be available in the future, but that does not help because I need it right now. For GPS, I only want iGO, or one that does warn me if I exceed the legal speed limit; is iGO available on linux? Can I get Cash Organiser on linux? What about creating and editing Word and Excel documents, can that be done on linux yet? What about MobileGolfScorer, which is the best golfing software that I know of? Does it run on linux? If not, is that anything as good? The list goes on and on.
It may be true that with WM7 some software may not run. We know that from the wm2003se to wm5 upgrade experience. However, almost all the software vendors quickly adapted with the newer version, so I'm not worried. I've watched a video interview with the WM7 development team, and know that they do try their best to minimise migration difficulties.
One of the attractions of Qualcomm's SnapDragon platform is its low battery consumption. It consumes between 250 to 500 miliwatt of battery. In contrast, the A110 and A100 chip from Intel consumes about 3 watts, which is 6 to 12 times more power hungry. The Intel's Silverthorne consumes power between 0.6 and 2.0 watts.
The chipset apparently allows even full OS to run on it. This may be the start of a more useable UMPC running full OS??
HTC is currently testing SnapDragon. Let's hope that they adopt it and come up with a battery efficient mobile device.
eaglesteve said:
It's true that Athana could not access classical youtube without first downloading it, but there is still youtube mobile that you can use.
QUOTE]
Or, of course, vTap
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Confucious said:
eaglesteve said:
It's true that Athana could not access classical youtube without first downloading it, but there is still youtube mobile that you can use.
QUOTE]
Or, of course, vTap
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Youtube is only sited as a prime example of a flash-based site. Vtap, and other solutions do not allow access to all Flash 9 based sites.
On the subject of the Anchorage - it is definitely not being released, which is no surprise since its primary function was to demonstrate the Snapdragon Chipset - the device wasn't even fully functional and was only running WM5. HOWEVER HTC wil be adopting the Snapdragon Chipset, this is a certainity.
HTC are demostrably not concentrating soley on Windows Mobile anymore so it's a good bet that these new chipsets will herald more full windows/linux devices - I'll be happy with that!
Maps software on the N800 is not crap - Maemo mapper integrates loads of mapping applications - including google maps and is very responsive. It also informs you of your current speed limit.
And it's free.
Nokia Maps (wayfinder) also works fine. To be honest though I don't really need GPS as I don't drive.
I don't know if any Word apps are available for os2008 as I would never wish to edit word docs, or even view them on such a small screen. The keyboard is so crap on the Athena that I never edited word docs anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
leoni1980 said:
Confucious said:
HOWEVER HTC wil be adopting the Snapdragon Chipset, this is a certainity.
Maps software on the N800 is not crap - Maemo mapper integrates loads of mapping applications - including google maps and is very responsive. It also informs you of your current speed limit.
I don't know if any Word apps are available for os2008 as I would never wish to edit word docs, or even view them on such a small screen. The keyboard is so crap on the Athena that I never edited word docs anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good to confirm that HTC is coming up with a Snapdragon Chipset. As long as it is a convergent device like Athena, hopefully running WM7, they would have my money.
I think most GPS software inform you of your current speed. However, very few compares it against the road's legal speed limit and gives an audio warning when one exceeds it. I sometime forget to look at the speed sign and unintentionally exceed speed. Fine is hefty and its easy to be slapped with license suspension. I use iGO even if I'm already familiar with the direction, for the purpose of giving just that speed warning.
I do have lots of words and excel documents created on Athena and shared on the desktop.
Creating words document is extremely productive if you use Tengo soft keyboard. Tengo would not be availalable on Linux again, I believe.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
eaglesteve said:
leoni1980 said:
Good to confirm that HTC is coming up with a Snapdragon Chipset. As long as it is a convergent device like Athena, hopefully running WM7, they would have my money.
I think most GPS software inform you of your current speed. However, very few compares it against the road's legal speed limit and gives an audio warning when one exceeds it. I sometime forget to look at the speed sign and unintentionally exceed speed. Fine is hefty and its easy to be slapped with license suspension. I use iGO even if I'm already familiar with the direction, for the purpose of giving just that speed warning.
I do have lots of words and excel documents created on Athena and shared on the desktop.
Creating words document is extremely productive if you use Tengo soft keyboard. Tengo would not be availalable on Linux again, I believe.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You've got a long wait for WM7 so don't hold your breath, there's life in wm6 yet as far as MS is concerned.
Not so bothered about on screen keyboards on N800 - there's a stylus kboard and a thumb kboard which are both fine. I don't do extensive typing anyway, mostly listening to bbc onine or fm radio with the plugins and browsing the net. I do pretty much all my major typing on the EEE. I can't imagine a long period of typing with onscreen input but I take my hat off to you for managing it. I don't imagine you can type many words per minute though!
Igo sounds good i'll give you that, but I don't drive and even if I did I wouldn't necessarily rely on the speed limits given by a satnav. It's a great-sounding feature though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
leoni1980 said:
You've got a long wait for WM7 so don't hold your breath, there's life in wm6 yet as far as MS is concerned.
I don't imagine you can type many words per minute though!
Igo sounds good i'll give you that, but I don't drive and even if I did I wouldn't necessarily rely on the speed limits given by a satnav. It's a great-sounding feature though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One year passes very fast. By then I would have already got 2 year use and would pass on Athena to one of my sons who frequently fight over the use of Athena with me now.
As to the typing speed, watch the speed demo on this website:
http://www.tengo.net/
You'll then understand why Tengo is so different and unique as compared to the normal softscreen keyboard.
The speed limit is accurate for most of the roads. On some roads the speed limit has not been entered into the database. I understand that in one of the Tom Tom versions, users are able to manually update a particular road's speed limit as well as to add/change/delete road. I don't rely on it to the extend of not watching the speed sign and speedometer, since some road's speed are not there. I use it just to mimimise the chance of speeding when I day dream away, or got distracted.
So, there are GPS software and there are GPS software. They are'nt created equal. What I like about my existing winmo platform is that I have already sourced the best of bread in almost all areas. Finding applications which are as good on Linux platform may be a challenge.
leoni1980 said:
i agree with you that CE underpins a great many devices we use everyday. I'm sure it's not ce which is at fault, however it needs to be understood that running a basic satnav or epos system isn't the same as running an effective graphics-heavy mobile device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, you hugely underestimate what a "basic" satnav application does, I believe. TomTom, or others in kind, probably are the most power-hundgry applications running on our devices, especially so since they are, on top of CPU hungry, usually greedy on graphic resources. Yet most of the WinCE devices that run dedicated satnav solutions are 200, at most 300 MHz.
leoni1980 said:
Another point i don't entirely agree on is about the touch gui - this has nothing to do with winCE, it is an extension to wm6.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I said in my previous post, it has everything to do with WinCE. Of course, the Touch GUI is, basically, a Windows Mobile application. But, Windows CE is, just the same, underlying all this. And it's WinCE that allows for easy, fast and efficient application development and allowed HTC to produce the Touch application that fast.
leoni1980 said:
They did a good job, but it's no miracle! Like i said, windows mobile in the end ruins it, since as snazzy as touchcube and touchflo look on the face of it you invariably end up back at the unfriendly and stylus-dependant windows gui.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right. But do not forget that the GUI of the Nokia and iPhone you mention end, too, at the nice-looking GUI. The difference, and advantage, we have on these devices is that however flawed the ergonomy of the rest of the interface is, it is at our disposal, while it does not even exist on those other devices.
leoni1980 said:
On the whole i think you are right in that it is the windows mobile programmers who are at fault, but eaglesteve's boundless optimism is possibly unfounded as these programmers have had YEARS to make the interface nicer and improve the user experience and have patently failed to do it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They didn't do it for multiple reasons: they didn't need to (the WinCE platform was self-sustaining, competition faded to nothingness...), and they were even required to make an interface that even vaguely ressembled the desktop versions of Windows...
leoni1980 said:
Wm6 is inherently the same as all the rest but for bug fixes and some tweaks, what's to say wm7 will be any better?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mainly the fact that, in they roadmap, they said from the start that:
- WM6 would be a "consolidation" of WM5;
- WM7 would provide a significant overhaul, in particular with the GUI and the general user experience.
leoni1980 said:
I really hope they see sense, but who knows? It could be that they've seen the market lead symbian is getting in the mobile arena and are content to release windows mobile updates only for the hardcore. They might not see themselves as competitors to apple and nokia in this field. I hope i'm wrong...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nokia is, for now, the leader in mobile devices. Whichever OS they use is, therefore, the most distributed OS. But that's valid for "regular" phones, NOT PDA phones. In the PDA, and PDA phones market, Windows Mobile is quite simply the undisputed leader.
leoni1980 said:
Fl3.0 has just been embedded into the N95 8gb firmware. This means that N95 8gb users have FULL ACCESS to youtube and other flash sites. Nokia are already ahead of the game, and despite the limitations of a qvga, non-touchscreen device it seems that not only will N95 users have a better video and multimedia playback device than Athena users but also full, uninhibited access to most websites.
I see a microsoft-killing PDA on the horizon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't agree more that PocketIE should be much better. In fact, much more than the "Windows-like" GUI, I find it infuriating to have such a basic 'HTML experience" on such a state of the art device, in 2007/2008. If the iPhone has any impact on our WinMo machines, I hope it is to show that integrating functionnalities such as Youtube, weather forecast, etc. is a minimum requirement for integrated functionnalities.
If you like to chat - it's a perfect place for you!
Respect each other and have a lot of fun :laugh:
OK, i'll be the first in this thread
i wonder if WP 8 will be installable on current lumia 1st gen.
i read some thread who's talkin about but well if hardware are missing for WP 8 feature we can run WP 8 without using those feature... like NFC and others
So why it can't really be possible, due to bootloader restriction ? kernel ?
I'm not programmer that's why my question seems like "newbie"
I'm forgine me about my english ..
isma33 said:
OK, i'll be the first in this thread
i wonder if WP 8 will be installable on current lumia 1st gen.
i read some thread who's talkin about but well if hardware are missing for WP 8 feature we can run WP 8 without using those feature... like NFC and others
So why it can't really be possible, due to bootloader restriction ? kernel ?
I'm not programmer that's why my question seems like "newbie"
I'm forgine me about my english ..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First: I'm not an IT expert so there might be some mistakes in the following Explanation.
The first thing we have to consider is the architecture. As you may know there are different processors out there. There are the "old-fashioned" computer x84 (32bit) processors and the now well spread 64bit processors. For mobiles there are ARM processors. When a program is compiled it gets translated into certain codes that are executed by the processor (and other hardware like the graphics processor). So every OS has to be programmed, optimized and tested on a range of processor types. There are even differences in different generations of these processors with different capabilities. I don't really think that matters to the WP8 portability, as far as I know only the performance would be different.
However WP8 also has a different kernel. Windows Phone 7 is based on WinCE and Windows Phone 8 will have the same "foundation" as the Windows 8 products. This presents us with the first problem. Every phone has "custom" peripherals by the OEM: the camera, the speakers and microphone, WLAN chips, BT hardware, etc.. This hardware is different for every device series. A HTC Mozart has a different camera than a HTC Titan, and our Lumias have even another version ( I think you get the point). The Windows Phone operating system doesn't really know how to access all the variations of different peripherals directly. A HTC camera is controlled in a different way than a Lumia camera. This is why the OEMs (Nokia, HTC, Samsung, etc.) have to write drivers and integrate them into their phone software. A driver provides a way for the System to communicate with the hardware. The driver defines a fixed set of functions. For a camera some of the functions could be: "Give me your current status", "What do you currently see", "Set the ISO value to X". So Windows Phone doesn't know how to do the operations directly on the hardware, instead it knows that there is a driver that has the functions to do the desired task. The phone communicates through the driver with the hardware. The way of communication is like a predefined contract and every manufacturer has to implement this contract. However Windows Phone 8 changes some things how drivers are handled (the contract has changed) so the OEMs would have to rewrite their drivers. This is tied to lots of work, ressources, time and money.
(At this point you might ask why the HD2 can run Windows Phone 7. This is because the HD2 hardware is very very similar to the HD7 hardware. So the HD2 can use drivers of the HD7. Also Windows Mobile is based on WinCE as well.)
Another thing is that Windows Phone 8 is speculated to bring a number of security related improvements. These come with restrictions as well. It is possible that some hardware is required to encrypt and decrypt certain stuff. (Now a very speculative part) Windows Phone 8 might also require UEFI. When you turn on your PC the OS has to be loaded somehow. This is most commonly done by the BIOS. The BIOS is saved on a chip on your motherboard and this chip is (more or less) a read only memory [when you open your computer you might see a chip with a shiny PHOENIX or AWARD sticker on it]. It is not always easy to update the BIOS and manipulating it can cause your PC to become unbootable. UEFI is a successor to the BIOS. It (UEFI) implements a wide array of features. For instance it can check signatures and verify the OS integrity to see if someone has manipulated the OS.
These are just my two cents, you can find more (possible) reasons by digging through the various WP7&8 sections here on XDA. Also feel free to ask if something is unclear. It's hard to tell the hardware related reasons that prevent porting because I didn't stumble upon a "Windows Phone 8 hardware requirements"-sheet yet. But I guess security related hardware is the main thing that prevents WP8 from being ported to current generation hardware. On the bootloader/BIOS/UEFI thing, a person with more knowledge about Emmbeded Systems could explain more I guess.
Regards
Chris
off top
ok hello im really angry about lumia 800 and it's unlock possibilities (dev unl only) i got mine since last year ,how long
should we wait for someone to talk about that problem , heath ,jax and others twitter pages seems to lack of that info
so what the heck? why nobody talk about it and solve our problem ? tell me
cdbase said:
ok hello im really angry about lumia 800 and it's unlock possibilities (dev unl only) i got mine since last year ,how long
should we wait for someone to talk about that problem , heath ,jax and others twitter pages seems to lack of that info
so what the heck? why nobody talk about it and solve our problem ? tell me
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
posts like that are really gonna motivate them in to working on the lumia 800 :laugh:
I guess its the end of lumia 800, its been 6 months for my 800 and i could just carry on with dev unlock..
And trying to run hombrews which dont need root, not that im sad with the phone, but looking at most other WP phones open to other greater ROMs get me hyped.
Root is something a high end phone like this needs!!
And im sure WP8 cant be ported to the 800, WP7.8 is enough, since there is a lot of changes that we see over the web, including a new lockscreen for WP8 and not wp 7.8.
well right now dllimport project has given us yet another app BluePhoto Beta done by navisluni, so i dont know if any of the devs would like to sit and have a Nth thought of an unlock for 800.
The main problme is the lumia has fallen in hands of youngsters since its a NOKIA phone, young people tend to buy this phone and they have knowledge enough to say that a root is needed to customize this OS a bit, or else its a beauty!
Till now only 710 is the great one, and 800,900 and 610 are left behind.
I just hope there is a universal way to root the device types, because checking some stuff over the web, WP7.8 doesnt implement secure boot in any way...so we still have a free open OS, but to its current restrictions.
All the best to anyone trying for an unlock in anyway..
Lumia 920
See this,
http://www.nokia.com/global/products/phone/lumia920/specifications
Greets,
I don''t know where to post this but has any of you been having issues downloading apps from the marketplace?
I noticed that I cannot download any application that are more than 15mb - once it reaches 50% it says "Attention required. Tap Here.". I can download large podcasts just fine but its another story for apps.
Also, I noticed that you can login using a single Windows Live account on two phones (I have a Dell Venue Pro and a Nokia Lumia 800), could this be interfering with the downloads? (BTW I'm trying to download games that are already installed on my Dell to my Lumia - then again I was able to install the apps that have a relatively small file size).
KimWinter said:
I don''t know where to post this but has any of you been having issues downloading apps from the marketplace?
I noticed that I cannot download any application that are more than 15mb - once it reaches 50% it says "Attention required. Tap Here.". I can download large podcasts just fine but its another story for apps.
Also, I noticed that you can login using a single Windows Live account on two phones (I have a Dell Venue Pro and a Nokia Lumia 800), could this be interfering with the downloads? (BTW I'm trying to download games that are already installed on my Dell to my Lumia - then again I was able to install the apps that have a relatively small file size).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
try the free zune more personal space micro sim, like personal space you have to fill your stuff already, sorry for my English.
lumia noise
Hi
I got a new lumia 800 about a week ago and I've noticed it makes interference sounds (the same noise one would hear coming from a radio speaker while a mobile getting a call or msg near by) while speaking on the phone or even when just browsing or playing with it. Also when i'm recieving a call or email. It seems strange to me as my old phone never made these sounds. Has anyone experienced this on their lumia?
I wonder if there is something wrong with mine.
lumia 800 case
Hello ! today i bought a phone case with 15$ , it has a few scratches but I'm undecided between paint it yellow or leave it like that
Does exist sim unlocking method?
Thx for reply.
Anyone has a news about change bootloader from Dload to Qualcoom?
For the 800 or 710?
710 guide here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=26697553&postcount=117
Anybody have any experience replacing the glass of the Lumia 710? I just bought my phone off eBay for $100, and although the seller said it was in "like new condition", the screen is pretty scratched up. Normally I'd complain and return it, but I think $100 is still a pretty good deal. I was thinking of buying a new screen + digitizer for like $25, but I'm a little worried about removing mine. Specifically about the part where you have to heat up the LCD screen to remove it from the glass because it's stuck with double-sided tape.
Otherwise, the phone is still in warranty, so would Nokia replace the glass under warranty? or at least at a discounted price from the out of warranty price?
Unlocked my 710.
What roms would you guys recommend? I tried rataplan, but there's no 4g, which I want..
RainbowMod rom . for 710 .:victory:
I want to buy a Nokia charger because I'm currently using a Samsung charger(galaxySL). Is AC-10E good? I'm really confused about which charger should I buy.
Thank !
nonblk said:
Hello ! today i bought a phone case with 15$ , it has a few scratches but I'm undecided between paint it yellow or leave it like that
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this blue one is a case? Yellow would be like L920 but I'm of a different opinion.
Why wear case and make phone fatter, enjoy as he is without it.
Producer of the phone wasn't thinking what case will match but how to make the phone tough enough to not using cases
Wow
I think I just found the most desolate place on the whole board!
Yo hello guys. I have a very good idea on how to make apple's 3d touch come to life on any android phone with just software. They way it should work is to see the point of touch in the screen. When you press harder , the point is getting bigger. So the program should detect if the point is getting bigger so it will give the 3d touch menu. All this sound great to me , but unfortunately I am not a developer yet. I hope a developer can make this happen . If you know any , give them this link
Hmmm. To get it working system-wide would probably require changing some low-level View hierarchy code that I don't like to think about... But to add such a thing to your own app? I think even I could whip up a demo. The next problem would be in getting accurate readings from the pressure sensor.
3D Touch is only supported on the newer Apple devices because they already have the necessary hardware in place. Older iPhones aren't getting it officially (even though there's at least one Jailbreak tweak for that under development). I'm not sure all phones even have a pressure sensor, let alone one that works well. For now, I think I'd rather stick to long-clicks.
Hi All,
After much deliberation, I have bought the Mediapad M5 8.4 (wifi only) to replace a Nexus 7 2013 32G model (which i broke the screen while trying to fix usb port...)
WTF !!! this is NOT a TABLET !!!!! it seems it thinks its a oversized smartphone...
it might not be a big deal to some, but it gets annoying....
I will try to live with it for a bit, hopefully getting used to it...
BUT....
is there a way to make it a "tablet" (i know people sugessted other launchers, but these do not do the trick....)
Help me get this tablet back to being a tablet....or is it a pad...hmmm...... Huawei.... i bought a tablet...not a 8.4 inch phone that cannot even make calls !!!!
Thanks,
George
There's definitely some odd design choices. Specifically the odd button placement and the lack of the USB C video output.
But the caveat is who else is attempting premium level Android tablets in 2018?
Samsung and Huawei.
Potentially Xiaomi.
Maybe Asus and that's highly questionable (given their choices of internals).
The fact is that Android tablets are a dying breed. Even Apple's sales have dipped slightly year after year.
-----
But aside from Launchers (Nova, Apex, etc) and the ROMs section of this forum, there's not much else that can be done to circumvent an OEM's design choices.
My advice; if you're unhappy, return the product and look at something like a Galaxy Tab S2/S3 or Xiaomi MiPad 4.
Hmm, I bought this tablet in part because it was an oversized smartphone. Why have a separate phone, tablet, and laptop when I can basically combine them into one pocketable device? Huawei seems to be the only company really rallying around this mold of late, which I appreciate.
What exactly makes a smartphone vs a tablet? You can change DPI via Developer Options. One of the Open Kirin roms might help as well.
I also bought M5 8 LTE because it is a oversized phone, I used M2 8 LTE for 2 years and couldn't bee more pleased with the device, and made the upgrade to M5 8 so I get a faster and newer software, I just love this form factor and a big bonus with this is that I can make phone calls. All I one device for me
My guess is because they won't have to make changes uptading firmware, which is in my book better to have software support than getting few Android tablet features. This is the least of it's problems.
o_giorkos said:
is there a way to make it a "tablet" (i know people sugessted other launchers, but these do not do the trick....)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not the tablet's fault, rather it's the apps - or the app developers, to be precise.
When you build an Android App, you design and define layouts based on attributes of the device on which the app is running - or, as the case with many Android app developers these days, you don't! Therefore, without appropriate layouts defined for the resolution and ratio of the M5, you get what you see in a lot of apps: the M5 acts like a big fat phone.
However, you can find apps that work well: Crashlands is a game that gives you visibility of a large area of the map when played on the M5. Netflix looks brilliant, using the ratio and resolution of the display.
If there are particular apps that don't look good, contact the developers. Given the limited use of Andoird tablets these days, in relation to the number of phones, don't be suprised if the dev simply can't be arsed to build in layout support for what's effectively a "niche" device category.
mroshaw said:
It's not the tablet's fault, rather it's the apps - or the app developers, to be precise.
When you build an Android App, you design and define layouts based on attributes of the device on which the app is running - or, as the case with many Android app developers these days, you don't! Therefore, without appropriate layouts defined for the resolution and ratio of the M5, you get what you see in a lot of apps: the M5 acts like a big fat phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi,
if I undestand what you say, then my previous nexus 7 2013 , was 1920 x1200 = 1.6 Aspect Ratios
the mediapad me 8.4 is 2560x1600 = 1.6 aspect Ratio again...
also, re resolution on the mediapad is higher (which someone might guess its a bigger screen - ok..not necessarily ) !!!
then again...my moto g5 is 1920x1080 is still 'high' res, but a smartphone nevetheless... and it acts like a phone..like it should...
yet again...my lenovo tab a2 10 is 1920x1080 ..same res and aspec as my moto g5, but acts like a 'tablet' as it should
so...I don;t really see that this is the reason why is acting as a phone (I am saying this without any android app development knowledge as you do...so i might be completely wrong !!))
for example...chrome on nexus 7 has tabs and 'new' tab tabbi thing like a desktop version does...on media pad is like my motorola phone...no visible tabs... (i installed firefox but does not render pages as 'accurately' as chrome)....
gmail the same...i know its not a huge problem....but a problem nevertheless....oh boy do i miss my nexus 7 nice soft feel.... (im actually plannign on buying a used one ...again....)
anyways...thanks for the info !
Geoge
o_giorkos said:
Hi All,
After much deliberation, I have bought the Mediapad M5 8.4 (wifi only) to replace a Nexus 7 2013 32G model (which i broke the screen while trying to fix usb port...)
WTF !!! this is NOT a TABLET !!!!! it seems it thinks its a oversized smartphone...
it might not be a big deal to some, but it gets annoying....
I will try to live with it for a bit, hopefully getting used to it...
BUT....
is there a way to make it a "tablet" (i know people sugessted other launchers, but these do not do the trick....)
Help me get this tablet back to being a tablet....or is it a pad...hmmm...... Huawei.... i bought a tablet...not a 8.4 inch phone that cannot even make calls !!!!
Thanks,
George
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. Since mine is not even 1 week old, I had not tried it with much apps yet, but at the moment, I am getting funny render from the Facebook app. It draws correctly in landscape mode but squeeze the person's profile done to the left while having full size normal suggested people on the right while in portrait mode. Not sure if it even knows if it is a phone or a tablet itself as:
a. things display correctly on my K1 Shield with FHD display
b. things display correctly on my Axon 7 with QHD display
---------- Post added at 04:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:20 PM ----------
mroshaw said:
It's not the tablet's fault, rather it's the apps - or the app developers, to be precise.
When you build an Android App, you design and define layouts based on attributes of the device on which the app is running - or, as the case with many Android app developers these days, you don't! Therefore, without appropriate layouts defined for the resolution and ratio of the M5, you get what you see in a lot of apps: the M5 acts like a big fat phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure about who's fault is it but the same app (Facebook) "draws" correctly on my Axon 7 which has QHD display like the M5.
Some interesting reading on the Android Dev pages:
https://developer.android.com/training/multiscreen/screensizes
I've developed a couple of apps in the past and dealing with multiple devices, resolutions, DPI and ratios is an absolute nightmare! It's one of the reasons building for Apple devices is that much easier.
Writing this from the MediaPad itself. Heheheh
Things are getting bit better.... I can swear I tried this before but I didn't notice any difference... I was playing bit more with it tonight....
I have set display settings, view mode to small.....
And presto.... My chrome can show multiple tabs side by side now, Gmail behaviour like tablet.....
So go ahead guys and try it... It might solve some of your issues....
At least I can now give this "tablet" a second chance.....
George....
P. S still don't like the "premium" feel as people describe it.... Too shiny and slippy.... Where is my nexus rubbery surface??????
mroshaw said:
Some interesting reading on the Android Dev pages:
https://developer.android.com/training/multiscreen/screensizes
I've developed a couple of apps in the past and dealing with multiple devices, resolutions, DPI and ratios is an absolute nightmare! It's one of the reasons building for Apple devices is that much easier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand what u say... Even though I use android devices, I can see the mix and match problems they have.
But nevertheless, I tried to post this before but don't know why it doesn't show so I'm pasting it here... I have some better news
Writing this from the MediaPad itself. Heheheh
Things are getting bit better.... I can swear I tried this before but I didn't notice any difference... I was playing bit more with it tonight....
I have set display settings, view mode to small.....
And presto.... My chrome can show multiple tabs side by side now, Gmail behaviour like tablet.....
So go ahead guys and try it... It might solve some of your issues....
At least I can now give this "tablet" a second chance.....
George....
P. S still don't like the "premium" feel as people describe it.... Too shiny and slippy.... Where is my nexus rubbery surface??????
o_giorkos said:
Writing this from the MediaPad itself. Heheheh
Things are getting bit better.... I can swear I tried this before but I didn't notice any difference... I was playing bit more with it tonight....
I have set display settings, view mode to small.....
And presto.... My chrome can show multiple tabs side by side now, Gmail behaviour like tablet.....
So go ahead guys and try it... It might solve some of your issues....
At least I can now give this "tablet" a second chance.....
George....
P. S still don't like the "premium" feel as people describe it.... Too shiny and slippy.... Where is my nexus rubbery surface??????
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK changing view mode works but made text kind of too small. Need to change text size upwards to large.
I just got the Huawei M5 8.4 (replacing Nvidia Shield Tablet) and didn't notice anything different about the Huawei M5 8.4 until I used the YouTube app which looks more like it does on my Xperia Z5 Premium the it did on the shield tablet. Specifically minimized videos looks absolutely bizarre, no matter whether if you're in landscape or portrait mode: they don't shrink correctly.
You can change the DPI in development settings and your apps will go into tablet mode. Oddly the back and task manager button are gone and once you reboot it will go back to the original DPI. I tried to get a bootloader unlock code from FunkyHuawei to install a treble ROM but they could not unlock it and gave me a refund after 14 days. All this and the lack of Bluetooth codecs made me return the tablet. For now I will stick with my 2015 Tab S2.