10. You will be flamed if you post a question that could have been solved with a little effort searching.
9.1 Most questions can be answered with a little effort searching
9. Unlocking your phone will void your warranty for software issue claims and maybe hardware issues as well. (Nobody knows for sure--which means anything you do is at your own risk.)
8. It is easy to unlock the bootloader. Go to Htc.dev to do so.
7. There are not too many DEVS right now but those who are here rock it for free and they don't have time to answer stupid posts like, how do you flash a kernal or is this going to void my warranty.
6. DEVS and Moderators are no longer spoonfeeding us answers.
5. Using fastboot is easy. Read. Reread. Then reread again. I was convinced that I was right and spent 18 hours repeating the same stupid mistake. Turns out I can read and write an appellate court brief but I can't read three lines of a post.
4. I am more than double the age of one of the most active developers....and I'm still a young man at 37.
3. Of all the time I spend searching for answers half of it is wasted sifting through duplicate posts from people asking the same question another noob had just finished asking.
2. My wife hates my phone.
1. There is no S-OFF so F-OFF if you post a question about it.
And you also double counted 9
Ha, and I felt old compared to some of the people in these forums(I'm 30)..
Question about number 5 - what makes you say using fastboot is easy? Outside using the flashboot command for a few things, that was one of the things I found the least info about..
And yea, I agree with number 3. The worst part is the answer is usually "use the search button".. if even once in a while they just answered the damn question, me using the search wouldn't take so (#*%ing long! Considering I will find 30 different posts asking the question before I ever find the answer.. sigh.
Oh, and number 2 made me laugh. I have no wife, but pretty sure my roommate is starting to hate it
Post of the day for me!
It's nice to see some other non-nooby noobs around.
Hey dude, nice move, that post of yours!
Really surprised about number 2 tho- thought I'm the only one with a wife that has a problematic attitude towards my addiction...
Sent from my TBD Runny 3.1
Silentbtdeadly said:
And yea, I agree with number 3. The worst part is the answer is usually "use the search button".. if even once in a while they just answered the damn question, me using the search wouldn't take so (#*%ing long! Considering I will find 30 different posts asking the question before I ever find the answer.. sigh.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If the second person who had the same question as someone else used search instead of just asking it, he would have an answer. And the third, and the fourth, and the 5th, and the 30th, etc.
Sent from my HTC Amaze 4G using xda premium
hasoon2000 said:
And you also double counted 9
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's why I made it 9.1.
Sent from my HTC Amaze 4G using XDA App
I LMAO at #4 I'm 65, rooted my Motorola Cliq 2yrs ago, didn't even know these kind of places existed lol. And I agree with read,read,read,reread and read again. Thanks for a nice article
More truths...
alrosal said:
10. You will be flamed if you post a question that could have been solved with a little effort searching.
9.1 Most questions can be answered with a little effort searching
9. Unlocking your phone will void your warranty for software issue claims and maybe hardware issues as well. (Nobody knows for sure--which means anything you do is at your own risk.)
8. It is easy to unlock the bootloader. Go to Htc.dev to do so.
7. There are not too many DEVS right now but those who are here rock it for free and they don't have time to answer stupid posts like, how do you flash a kernal or is this going to void my warranty.
6. DEVS and Moderators are no longer spoonfeeding us answers.
5. Using fastboot is easy. Read. Reread. Then reread again. I was convinced that I was right and spent 18 hours repeating the same stupid mistake. Turns out I can read and write an appellate court brief but I can't read three lines of a post.
4. I am more than double the age of one of the most active developers....and I'm still a young man at 37.
3. Of all the time I spend searching for answers half of it is wasted sifting through duplicate posts from people asking the same question another noob had just finished asking.
2. My wife hates my phone.
1. There is no S-OFF so F-OFF if you post a question about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I commend you for being so brave uncovering the 'truth'. However, there are still some more truths hidden beneath the XDA dungeon. What I am about to disclose must be kept here for the obvious safety reasons...
0.0. The 'Search' button is NOT as effective as those so called 'experts' want you to believe. In fact, when they say 'use the search button', they are essentially telling you (i.e. 'noobs') to 'just give up and try something else'.
0.1. The 'Search' button works perfectly if you KNOW what you're looking for. If you have no clue what the answer (for what you're looking for) might be, the search will only give you a list of some random threads which you go through for a while and eventually give up. When an expert says, "Here, I searched for you," he probably already knew the answer and used that 'key word' to get the right post, in order to make you look stupid.
0.2. There is an 'advanced' option in 'Search', which may or may not work well for noobs (hint: a sward with double edge).
0.3. Searching is a form of art. You'll need some intelligence to appreciate its effectiveness, which most noobs have not acquired. If they do have such level of intelligence, then they are no longer called 'noobs' by definition.
0.4. Most experts were noobs once when they started, but they earned the honoray title by not asking the same question that the noob next to him asked 10 minutes ago.
0.5. Noobs asking hundreds of 'stupid questions' are called Senior Members.
0.6. Reading (and reading (and reading (and reading))), after all, is the only effective medicine for noobs.
0.7. Seriously, we should require all OP's to indicate [Solved] in front of thread titles when they got an answer to their question. How often do you re-read old threads when people add a new comment to a 'beaten-up' question? Binary??
0.8. 'Search' functions in forums have not advanced in the last few decades. I'm 51 with 30 years of IT background, and, still, I am finding this subject interesting enough to post my own version. Someone, please stop me before I get banned for uncovering the secrets.
0.9 Maybe it's time to develop a good wiki page for the Amaze... though there's no guaranty that people who need it the most would ever visit such place.
Questions??
ringochan said:
I commend you for being so brave uncovering the 'truth'. However, there are still some more truths hidden beneath the XDA dungeon. What I am about to disclose must be kept here for the obvious safety reasons...
0.0. The 'Search' button is NOT as effective as those so called 'experts' want you to believe. In fact, when they say 'use the search button', they are essentially telling you (i.e. 'noobs') to 'just give up and try something else'.
0.1. The 'Search' button works perfectly if you KNOW what you're looking for. If you have no clue what the answer (for what you're looking for) might be, the search will only give you a list of some random threads which you go through for a while and eventually give up. When an expert says, "Here, I searched for you," he probably already knew the answer and used that 'key word' to get the right post, in order to make you look stupid.
0.2. There is an 'advanced' option in 'Search', which may or may not work well for noobs (hint: a sward with double edge).
0.3. Searching is a form of art. You'll need some intelligence to appreciate its effectiveness, which most noobs have not acquired. If they do have such level of intelligence, then they are no longer called 'noobs' by definition.
0.4. Most experts were noobs once when they started, but they earned the honoray title by not asking the same question that the noob next to him asked 10 minutes ago.
0.5. Noobs asking hundreds of 'stupid questions' are called Senior Members.
0.6. Reading (and reading (and reading (and reading))), after all, is the only effective medicine for noobs.
0.7. Seriously, we should require all OP's to indicate [Solved] in front of thread titles when they got an answer to their question. How often do you re-read old threads when people add a new comment to a 'beaten-up' question? Binary??
0.8. 'Search' functions in forums have not advanced in the last few decades. I'm 51 with 30 years of IT background, and, still, I am finding this subject interesting enough to post my own version. Someone, please stop me before I get banned for uncovering the secrets.
0.9 Maybe it's time to develop a good wiki page for the Amaze... though there's no guaranty that people who need it the most would ever visit such place.
Questions??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I almost laughed myself out of my chair with 0.5
I know a lot of "senior members" that give out bad information and it only makes things worse. But don't think they get away with it for long! As a "senior member" I hold them to a much higher standard. Many members are post addicts just for that title though. We moderators call them "post pumpers." They tend to post a lot of off-topic stuff and ask really stupid questions. Then they give inaccurate information and I have to come in and save the day. Then of course when I see this type of activity I will demote the senior member down to junior member by removing all irrelevant and inaccurate posts. This is a quick way to piss off a post pumper.
In regards to the search feature. The feature is really active if the developers and OP's tag their posts with keywords. Example. Some good keywords for this thread would be 'NOOB' 'GUIDE' 'HELP ME' etc. There are a lot of theads without tags.
ringochan said:
I commend you for being so brave uncovering the 'truth'. However, there are still some more truths hidden beneath the XDA dungeon. What I am about to disclose must be kept here for the obvious safety reasons...
0.0. The 'Search' button is NOT as effective as those so called 'experts' want you to believe. In fact, when they say 'use the search button', they are essentially telling you (i.e. 'noobs') to 'just give up and try something else'.
0.1. The 'Search' button works perfectly if you KNOW what you're looking for. If you have no clue what the answer (for what you're looking for) might be, the search will only give you a list of some random threads which you go through for a while and eventually give up. When an expert says, "Here, I searched for you," he probably already knew the answer and used that 'key word' to get the right post, in order to make you look stupid.
0.2. There is an 'advanced' option in 'Search', which may or may not work well for noobs (hint: a sward with double edge).
0.3. Searching is a form of art. You'll need some intelligence to appreciate its effectiveness, which most noobs have not acquired. If they do have such level of intelligence, then they are no longer called 'noobs' by definition.
0.4. Most experts were noobs once when they started, but they earned the honoray title by not asking the same question that the noob next to him asked 10 minutes ago.
0.5. Noobs asking hundreds of 'stupid questions' are called Senior Members.
0.6. Reading (and reading (and reading (and reading))), after all, is the only effective medicine for noobs.
0.7. Seriously, we should require all OP's to indicate [Solved] in front of thread titles when they got an answer to their question. How often do you re-read old threads when people add a new comment to a 'beaten-up' question? Binary??
0.8. 'Search' functions in forums have not advanced in the last few decades. I'm 51 with 30 years of IT background, and, still, I am finding this subject interesting enough to post my own version. Someone, please stop me before I get banned for uncovering the secrets.
0.9 Maybe it's time to develop a good wiki page for the Amaze... though there's no guaranty that people who need it the most would ever visit such place.
Questions??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You do not earn not to be a noob by asking 100's of questions, in fact, if you look at my posts before I started helping out this forum I pretty much had everything down, by reading, I was using my N1 for 2 years and I had to read read read read and read more everywhere not just xda to learn what everything was and how to do things.
With S-On things are a little different but, if you start reading and researching on your own, you'll learn a lot...see how many posts I have in october and november of 2010 when I rooted my Nexus one!! First time I ever rooted an android. all my posts just say thanks and I really don't ask questions; I had approximately 10 posts. In july I had some hardware questions and obscure questions regarding galaxy tab 10.1 since it was so new and could not find info online. !! by then I was familiar enough to root my galaxy tab 10.1 and very familiar with almost everything...still learning today!!! If you look at before november when I got my phone and started helping out the forum, I barely have any questions. sure, I might have had a stupid one here or there, but I did not ask 1000's of questions to not become a noob. I still don't consider myself to be a pro like binary and some others here!!!
seansk said:
You do not earn not to be a noob by asking 100's of questions, in fact, if you look at my posts before I started helping out this forum I pretty much had everything down, by reading, I was using my N1 for 2 years and I had to read read read read and read more everywhere not just xda to learn what everything was and how to do things.
With S-On things are a little different but, if you start reading and researching on your own, you'll learn a lot...see how many posts I have in october and november of 2010 when I rooted my Nexus one!! First time I ever rooted an android. all my posts just say thanks and I really don't ask questions; I had approximately 10 posts. In july I had some hardware questions and obscure questions regarding galaxy tab 10.1 since it was so new and could not find info online. !! by then I was familiar enough to root my galaxy tab 10.1 and very familiar with almost everything...still learning today!!! If you look at before november when I got my phone and started helping out the forum, I barely have any questions. sure, I might have had a stupid one here or there, but I did not ask 1000's of questions to not become a noob. I still don't consider myself to be a pro like binary and some others here!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't call myself a pro by any means. However I take time to read something that I don't understand. That taught me that in grade school. But lemme ask you this. How would I look if I was to wander into another forum with my several thousand posts and 500+ "thanks" and ask what they would consider a stupid noob question? Instant bad reputation!
I wonder if I can get admin privledges to rename some titles from Senior Member to Senior Noob. In fact it should go like this. Junior Noob (10-25 stupid questions), Noob (25-50 stupid questions), Senior Noob (50-100 stupid questions), Noob Forever (100+) and the questions being asked can be voted on by other members. That way even a Senior Member (like myself) can still be elected as a noob if I was to ask at least 10 stupid questions. So if you see someone with 5,000+ posts and is rated as a Senior Noob... maybe keep looking.
Binary100100 said:
I don't call myself a pro by any means. However I take time to read something that I don't understand. That taught me that in grade school. But lemme ask you this. How would I look if I was to wander into another forum with my several thousand posts and 500+ "thanks" and ask what they would consider a stupid noob question? Instant bad reputation!
I wonder if I can get admin privledges to rename some titles from Senior Member to Senior Noob. In fact it should go like this. Junior Noob (10-25 stupid questions), Noob (25-50 stupid questions), Senior Noob (50-100 stupid questions), Noob Forever (100+) and the questions being asked can be voted on by other members. That way even a Senior Member (like myself) can still be elected as a noob if I was to ask at least 10 stupid questions. So if you see someone with 5,000+ posts and is rated as a Senior Noob... maybe keep looking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This thread is funny, entertaining, true and slightly wonderful. I don't want noob forever!
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using XDA App
jjlean said:
This thread is funny, entertaining, true and slightly wonderful. I don't want noob forever!
I'm just happy that we are all having a good conversation. A lot of bad attitudes in some of the other threads.
I agree that the search feature is not great but it did force me to learn. Perhaps we should have a thread where noobs can post questions and feel safe. Hell, I'll start it. Nothing too technical but if only noobs read it we can help each other. Might give mods a break. Call it "Yo fellow noob- ask your stupid question here first before you post in another thread. It will become a filter of sorts."
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my HTC Amaze 4G using XDA App
alrosal said:
Sent from my HTC Amaze 4G using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay so I proved that I'm a noob forever by somehow quoting my own post.
Sent from my HTC Amaze 4G using XDA App
I could call the thread "hey! Are you looking at my noobs."
Sent from my HTC Amaze 4G using XDA App
Improving XDA's Search function
Binary100100 said:
I almost laughed myself out of my chair with 0.5
I know a lot of "senior members" that give out bad information and it only makes things worse. But don't think they get away with it for long! As a "senior member" I hold them to a much higher standard. Many members are post addicts just for that title though. We moderators call them "post pumpers." They tend to post a lot of off-topic stuff and ask really stupid questions. Then they give inaccurate information and I have to come in and save the day. Then of course when I see this type of activity I will demote the senior member down to junior member by removing all irrelevant and inaccurate posts. This is a quick way to piss off a post pumper.
In regards to the search feature. The feature is really active if the developers and OP's tag their posts with keywords. Example. Some good keywords for this thread would be 'NOOB' 'GUIDE' 'HELP ME' etc. There are a lot of theads without tags.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, I'm glad you had a good laugh with my post. I read somewhere else that you had a bad day, so it's a good sign you still hadn't lost the sense of humor.
Actually, though, my intention for posting was more serious than to make people laugh. As you mentioned, for the search feature to work well, we need discipline. The system is just not smart enough yet to become noob-proof. You need to add tags, name thread title properly, consolidate and delete duplicates and inaccuracies (by mods like you), etc.etc.
BTW, I just found out that any one CAN add tags to threads opened by someone else. I just added 'noob' and 'guide' to this thread. 'help me' was rejected because the word 'help' was too common, it said.
Now, if we can request some new features to the XDA management, here's my take...
Question Thread Status: 'Actively Waiting for Answer', 'Answered but Needs More Info', 'Solved', 'Abandoned', etc.
Answer Post Rating: 'Best Answer', 'Additional Question', 'Additional info', etc.
Smart Post Tracking: 'Info in this post is Current/Obsolete', 'Supersedes/Superseded-by Post #999', etc.
Sub-Threads: Questions related or refers to certain threads can be nested so that they appear grouped together. It's similar to the 'Threaded Mode' but at the thread level.
Enhanced 'Threaded (Display) Mode': The current implementation of the 'Threaded Mode' is not useful, IMO. I want to see the entire page nested instead of just the post titles in a small window.
I don't think I need to explain but if someone up there is interested, I will for sure.
Binary100100 said:
I don't call myself a pro by any means. However I take time to read something that I don't understand. That taught me that in grade school. But lemme ask you this. How would I look if I was to wander into another forum with my several thousand posts and 500+ "thanks" and ask what they would consider a stupid noob question? Instant bad reputation!
I wonder if I can get admin privledges to rename some titles from Senior Member to Senior Noob. In fact it should go like this. Junior Noob (10-25 stupid questions), Noob (25-50 stupid questions), Senior Noob (50-100 stupid questions), Noob Forever (100+) and the questions being asked can be voted on by other members. That way even a Senior Member (like myself) can still be elected as a noob if I was to ask at least 10 stupid questions. So if you see someone with 5,000+ posts and is rated as a Senior Noob... maybe keep looking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Reputation certainly is a motivation for SOME people, not for EVERYONE (sigh...). The 'Noob meter/status' is a good one. But how we (the commoners) can vote/rate someone else's questions without causing confrontations?
alrosal said:
Okay so I proved that I'm a noob forever by somehow quoting my own post.
Sent from my HTC Amaze 4G using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fortunately, you didn't ask a stupid question to qualify for the noob status. Make all your mistakes before they actually implement the 'Noob Meter'!!!
seansk said:
You do not earn not to be a noob by asking 100's of questions, in fact, if you look at my posts before I started helping out this forum I pretty much had everything down, by reading,
.....
...still learning today!!! If you look at before november when I got my phone and started helping out the forum, I barely have any questions. sure, I might have had a stupid one here or there, but I did not ask 1000's of questions to not become a noob. I still don't consider myself to be a pro like binary and some others here!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My point exactly. I want the forum search function to be better so that people like you can learn and help others much more easily than it is now. History has proved many times that 'noobs who don't read' will stay 'noobs forever' even if you give them the best tool available on the planet.
jjlean said:
This thread is funny, entertaining, true and slightly wonderful. I don't want noob forever!
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I said above, you can only be 'noob forever' by not reading. As soon as you read through the thread and felt 'funny', you proved yourself to be a non-noob. And when you thought it to be true, you proved yourself to be a pro!! Hehe.
alrosal said:
I could call the thread "hey! Are you looking at my noobs."
Sent from my HTC Amaze 4G using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If I were you, I would change the OP title to 'Unveiling the Secrets of Searching' because that's exactly what you started with this thread (at least with some bullet points).
I'm glad that Binary is with us on these discussions. Some mods would object to these, I know. At least, we are being heard by a non-noob!
ringochan said:
snip snip snip
...I'm glad that Binary is with us on these discussions. Some mods would object to these, I know. At least, we are being heard by a non-noob!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course! I'm a member too you know! It's not like I'm an XDA Automated Bot or anything.
I put my pants on like everyone else (not that I've been paying any attention to anyone dressing or anything.)
Yes I was having a bad day... couple of them actually. But I got (what I call) justice and closure. I'm satisfied with the result of the conflict and I'm moving on. Not everyone will be (or is) satisfied with the result but whatever. They can give over it.
0.5. Noobs asking hundreds of 'stupid questions' are called Senior Members.
Questions??[/QUOTE]
Hey,I resemble that remark!
I like small noobs with hard bipples, (sorry couldn't stop myself)
Amazingly awesome post!
Related
It seems like every other posted question or comment lately is answered with a smart ass remark or the op is insulted for an honest mistake or posting a question that they didnt realize had already been asked. Yes we know we need to read before posting. Sometimes people just want to ask the question from their point of view. If half of the replies would be helpful answers instead of insulting comments the forums wouldnt get jammed up with "repeat questions". For the most part people seem cool on here and Im just wondering what some others think of this?
Get your flame suit on cause you're about to get toasted for this thread.
But I agree with you. I'm kinda tired of the attitude here but this has been my home for 2 years and I don't plan on leaving. I wish people would drop the attitudes and be more helpful sometimes. It is what it is though. I just turn a blind eye to it.
Cheers
Sent from my SGH-I777 using xda premium
I dont care about being flamed. I see others get flamed all the time on here. If someone is going to post another smart ass comment to my post then they should not bother. I understand people are people and I am not going anywhere either. But it just gets old...
I've noticed, and I agree with you. Unfortunately, it seems as though our forum is slowly starting to turn into most others I've seen. Let's hope it doesn't get worse.
There is absolutely no use in the way some people respond. For some reason, they don't seem to realize that the time they wasted on creating a snarky remark took up more time than just passing the thread by. Usually, someone will be kind enough to provide help or direction. I understand the frustration some times, and think users should be educated on how to go about finding information that already exists. BUT, when it's done with an unnecessary attitude, or worse, attitude is given with no useful help, it accomplishes nothing. It creates an atmosphere that doesn't lend itself to building our community.
I'm normally really quiet on here unless I have some constructive comment or help those that are in need who really need it.
But, the main problem for all the noob question is the lack of direction for noobs to find the info they really need to seek out. Common problem on any type of forum, but is part of how community forums work. Microsoft's community does a good job in controlling this with great help with constructive help on posts given by the moderators and links from others who shared the same type of problem.
Just my 2 pence worth.
Simba501 said:
I've noticed, and I agree with you. Unfortunately, it seems as though our forum is slowly starting to turn into most others I've seen. Let's hope it doesn't get worse.
There is absolutely no use in the way some people respond. For some reason, they don't seem to realize that the time they wasted on creating a snarky remark took up more time than just passing the thread by. Usually, someone will be kind enough to provide help or direction. I understand the frustration some times, and think users should be educated on how to go about finding information that already exists. BUT, when it's done with an unnecessary attitude, or worse, attitude is given with no useful help, it accomplishes nothing. It creates an atmosphere that doesn't lend itself to building our community.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You just hit the nail on the head!
capathy21 said:
It seems like every other posted question or comment lately is answered with a smart ass remark or the op is insulted for an honest mistake or posting a question that they didnt realize had already been asked. Yes we know we need to read before posting. Sometimes people just want to ask the question from their point of view. If half of the replies would be helpful answers instead of insulting comments the forums wouldnt get jammed up with "repeat questions". For the most part people seem cool on here and Im just wondering what some others think of this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The reason is that XDA is traditionally a DEVELOPER forum. Not a CONSUMER forum.
Yes, the original purpose of XDA has expanded, however back in the day, this site was mostly focused on technical issues. Rather than asking a simple and probably already answered question, *everyone* searched and searched again to find an answer. And if that didn't work, it was preferably to PM someone a question over starting a whole thread titled: "X thing that I'm trying to do doesn't work. Please help me!!! Sorry I'm a n00b!!!"".
There are no "stupid" question per se (though really, some folks around here push that boundary to its absolute limit), but there are plenty of already answered questions floating around. Even the OP's question/comment has been addressed millions of times before around here. Experienced XDA users get annoyed when people ask those same questions over and over again. And even though everyone says "I searched but couldn't find an answer for X", usually that's not really true. They may have quickly tried a single search term in the Vbulletin search, then probably gave up. They almost certainly haven't read the official XDA rules, and certainly haven't tried creative ways of finding the answer they are looking for.
This IS A DEVELOPER COMMUNITY. If you can't be bothered to try more than a few minutes of searching, then you are lazy, and it's not really worth the time of others to respond. Hence the flaming, and the anger, and the people attacking n00bs for already-answered questions. This is not a "community support forum" for those people who just picked up a new device and what to "r00tz that ****z" so they can play pirated games and tether for free. This is a community for people to work together on technical aspects of our amazing devices, and squeeze every drop of power from the silicon/glass/plastic devices we all love so much. Yes, people are people, not everyone will search properly, and yes, the majority user-base of XDA has changed a lot over the past 3-4 years. That doesn't mean you can just do whatever you want and not follow the clearly posted XDA rules. And it doesn't mean you have the right to post threads of "OMFG I can't believe how mean all these people who donate their time for free to the community are". Get over it. If you want to idly chat and whine about this that and the other, there are plenty of other places on the internet to do that. XDA is not the place.
Originally, there was very little hostility around XDA over stupid or silly threads. This was because they were so rare, and were often honest mistakes. I don't want to read about your whining and complaining about people being mean. You're right, I *could* just skip over the thread and not say anything (which, undoubtedly, many folks are given the responses so far). But you posted it in the Galaxy S2 i777 General Forum. This thread has nothing to do with the i777 GS2. Whine elsewhere, or be flamed. That's the long and short of it.
Good luck and welcome to XDA!
I have noticed this and commented on it in other threads also. The forum has went to **** the past few months.
I have been on this account for almost 3 years on here and 2 before that with another account so i have seen the changes. The reason there are so many newbs and questions is because Android and tablet use has exploded in the past year and half.
Sent from my SGH-I897 using xda premium
Agreed with OP, I am an active member on the NOOKcolor forum and I've tried to help newbies over and over and over and over and over and over again.
Yes, today newbie A asks a question, next week, newbie B ask the same question, and so on. Not only me but entire XDA members in NC room politely answering all and guide them through each step. Coming into this SGS2 room, geez, reading posts/responses really disappointed. Developers are great but power users seem to be God and expect every newbie has to know before asking. Duh, really?
I don't know if before they know about those stuff, when they were still newbie, didn't anyone showed them nicely step by step or just yelled at them like they do now
People can be assholes. Yes, most of the time it is uncalled for. i try to help when I can, because I hope someone will help me when I need it. But, at the same time, people need to learn to try to help themselves. See my sig.
We were all newbs at one point - even still, it's expected that everyone, newb and veteran alike are to read the rules and use the search function.
It's all well and good that someone makes an honest mistake by posting the same threads over again, but when it happens by every Joe Blow that comes in here, two or more times a week, and there's already 10 threads on the same topic, and said person never thought to use the search function, has **** grammar and syntax even asking their question or making a "Galaxy S II vs. ?" for the 18th time, it pisses those of us off that actually used our brain when we came here.
See, you got it all wrong: XDA wasn't made for you and I - it is a DEVELOPER'S forum. They were kind enough to let the average user sign up, expecting us to be knowledgeable enough not to be asshats that make a hundred of the same threads. Being self-entitled, thinking that the users who want to keep the developers actually developing, not answering bull**** questions for the 15th time are in the wrong for being firm, even harsh with people that don't, then there's the door. You either help the developers or get out of the way. If the developers or power users are kind enough to help answer certain questions once or twice, then count it as a blessing. DON'T even get mad when those people are then annoyed because the newb doesn't abide by rules or use their brain.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda premium
votinh said:
Agreed with OP, I am an active member on the NOOKcolor forum and I've tried to help newbies over and over and over and over and over and over again.
Yes, today newbie A asks a question, next week, newbie B ask the same question, and so on. Not only me but entire XDA members in NC room politely answering all and guide them through each step. Coming into this SGS2 room, geez, reading posts/responses really disappointed. Developers are great but power users seem to be God and expect every newbie has to know before asking. Duh, really?
I don't know if before they know about those stuff, when they were still newbie, didn't anyone showed them nicely step by step or just yelled at them like they do now
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When I was a n00b I read XDA for hours and hours before I would consider posting. And I tried very hard to read as much as possible before asking questions. That's how a n00b becomes a power user. By learning on their own. Plus, if asked with humility, and a sincere effort to "search before posting", you'll find people tend to not actually get flamed. It's only when people express their feeling of entitlement to an answer they could have probably discovered themselves that problems begin to brew...
Shammyh said:
The reason is that XDA is traditionally a DEVELOPER forum. Not a CONSUMER forum.
Yes, the original purpose of XDA has expanded, however back in the day, this site was mostly focused on technical issues. Rather than asking a simple and probably already answered question, *everyone* searched and searched again to find an answer. And if that didn't work, it was preferably to PM someone a question over starting a whole thread titled: "X thing that I'm trying to do doesn't work. Please help me!!! Sorry I'm a n00b!!!"".
There are no "stupid" question per se (though really, some folks around here push that boundary to its absolute limit), but there are plenty of already answered questions floating around. Even the OP's question/comment has been addressed millions of times before around here. Experienced XDA users get annoyed when people ask those same questions over and over again. And even though everyone says "I searched but couldn't find an answer for X", usually that's not really true. They may have quickly tried a single search term in the Vbulletin search, then probably gave up. They almost certainly haven't read the official XDA rules, and certainly haven't tried creative ways of finding the answer they are looking for.
This IS A DEVELOPER COMMUNITY. If you can't be bothered to try more than a few minutes of searching, then you are lazy, and it's not really worth the time of others to respond. Hence the flaming, and the anger, and the people attacking n00bs for already-answered questions. This is not a "community support forum" for those people who just picked up a new device and what to "r00tz that ****z" so they can play pirated games and tether for free. This is a community for people to work together on technical aspects of our amazing devices, and squeeze every drop of power from the silicon/glass/plastic devices we all love so much. Yes, people are people, not everyone will search properly, and yes, the majority user-base of XDA has changed a lot over the past 3-4 years. That doesn't mean you can just do whatever you want and not follow the clearly posted XDA rules. And it doesn't mean you have the right to post threads of "OMFG I can't believe how mean all these people who donate their time for free to the community are". Get over it. If you want to idly chat and whine about this that and the other, there are plenty of other places on the internet to do that. XDA is not the place.
Originally, there was very little hostility around XDA over stupid or silly threads. This was because they were so rare, and were often honest mistakes. I don't want to read about your whining and complaining about people being mean. You're right, I *could* just skip over the thread and not say anything (which, undoubtedly, many folks are given the responses so far). But you posted it in the Galaxy S2 i777 General Forum. This thread has nothing to do with the i777 GS2. Whine elsewhere, or be flamed. That's the long and short of it.
Good luck and welcome to XDA!
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I did not post this to "whine". I posted it because if I am reading something I get sick of smart ass responses. It may have been a developer only forum at one time but it no longer is. I along with many other people here are in no way developers, but know a little bit about it compared to the average joe and want to learn more. I greatly appreciate the hard working devs who donate their time and genius minds so that we can get the most out of our devices. Its not my first rodeo on a device forum by any means. They are designed for people to help others and learn. There is no place for the attitude. Period.
Shammyh said:
The reason is that XDA is traditionally a DEVELOPER forum. Not a CONSUMER forum.
This IS A DEVELOPER COMMUNITY.
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I've been on XDA for a little over a year, I think...ever since I got the captivate. I think I may have 1 or 2 posts in the development forum and 10 or 11 in the general forums. I have spent countless hours searching, reading, searching some more and reading some more until I got the answer I needed for my particular question. Almost 100% of the issues people ask about have been answered before.
That said, I think you're off of on a couple of your bolded comments. This is just as much of a consumer forum as it is a developers forum. The developers themselves have made it that way.
Nearly all google searches about android issues point to some XDA thread. Developers work hard and are often times compensated for their work (donations.) Although, I do not think the main driving force for their hard work is donations. They do it because they love it and they want to share their work with the CONSUMERS that frequent this site.
Flaming an unsuspecting consumer, who may not have done enough research on their own, into oblivion only has negative effects. That person may be a donator that decides to leave, for example. I've used the forum search on a number of occasions and to be honest, it is quite cumbersome...there is just so much data to go through. That doesn't stop me but it is quite frustrating some times.
I think a more effective strategy for dealing with consumers, who may not be as diligent at researching as most, would be to simply ignore the post. This will force them to do more research on their own. Now, you have a user who does more research on their own and you don't look like a ****.
Flaming is pointless. Those that do it are jerks.
Shammyh said:
When I was a n00b I read XDA for hours and hours before I would consider posting. And I tried very hard to read as much as possible before asking questions. That's how a n00b becomes a power user. By learning on their own. Plus, if asked with humility, and a sincere effort to "search before posting", you'll find people tend to not actually get flamed. It's only when people express their feeling of entitlement to an answer they could have probably discovered themselves that problems begin to brew...
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Yup, in addition to one of the links in my sig being STRONGLY recommended reading:
Whenever I purchase a device, I always spend at least an hour or two a day for 2-3 days reading the forums for that device to learn its ins and outs before I post ANYTHING. Actually, in many cases, I do that before even purchasing.
XDA has clearly stated rules, and Rule #1 is to search before posting. In addition, any new users has to watch the infamous "Noob on XDA" video as part of the registration process now.
So there is NO excuse for not searching. Especially when a user posts a new thread with:
1) A question from the FAQ - it is there for a reason
2) A question that has already been covered in MULTIPLE topics that are still on the first 1-2 pages of the forum. It takes 30 seconds to skim through a page of thread titles - but users insist that someone else spend 2-3 minutes digging up a thread for them instead of spending a minute to read thread titles.
Yes, sometimes we can spend almost as much time on the flame - but at least that lets us relieve our stress at yet another user who thinks they deserve special treatment and doesn't have to follow the rules.
Edit: As to just ignoring a post - A user that didn't bother to search won't go away. They'll do something even more annoying like creating yet another NEW thread, posting a thread in Development because it wasn't answered in General or Q&A, or bumping their thread after only 12 hours. They only way they'll learn any lesson is to get a little toasty.
While donations are nice, the kind of user who comes with the kind of sense of self-entitlement that gets them flamed isn't going to donate anyway. Plus I could get quadruple the donations I've received in 3 months, and I'd still wind up with less than half a week's pay at my real job.
The amount of time one will spend searching and reading will be FAR less than the time you waste because you didn't read and screwed something up.
"Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, you feed him for life." (Yeah, I mangled that slightly...)
This is a DEVELOPERS forum, it always has been and always will be. Without developers, it's no different than Android Central or any other forum.
Ok there wouldnt be anyone giving noobs attitude if they just followed the rules. **** they even make you watch a video b4 becoming a member here. If you have a question chances are someone has already asked/answered it. There is a search bar for a reason. USE IT! If not the by all means go ahead and post Im 100% sure you wont get **** for it. They even have a suggested thread dropdown when creating a new one, hoping someone sees that there has already been a threat opened pertaining to that particular subject. Its frustrating to other uzers who read these fourms day in and day out seeing some kid with one post asking the same question someone had already posted 3 times now. simply put quit being lazy and search just like everyone else here has b4 they asked a question.
Shammyh said:
The reason is that XDA is traditionally a DEVELOPER forum. Not a CONSUMER forum.
Yes, the original purpose of XDA has expanded, however back in the day, this site was mostly focused on technical issues. Rather than asking a simple and probably already answered question, *everyone* searched and searched again to find an answer. And if that didn't work, it was preferably to PM someone a question over starting a whole thread titled: "X thing that I'm trying to do doesn't work. Please help me!!! Sorry I'm a n00b!!!"".
There are no "stupid" question per se (though really, some folks around here push that boundary to its absolute limit), but there are plenty of already answered questions floating around. Even the OP's question/comment has been addressed millions of times before around here. Experienced XDA users get annoyed when people ask those same questions over and over again. And even though everyone says "I searched but couldn't find an answer for X", usually that's not really true. They may have quickly tried a single search term in the Vbulletin search, then probably gave up. They almost certainly haven't read the official XDA rules, and certainly haven't tried creative ways of finding the answer they are looking for.
This IS A DEVELOPER COMMUNITY. If you can't be bothered to try more than a few minutes of searching, then you are lazy, and it's not really worth the time of others to respond. Hence the flaming, and the anger, and the people attacking n00bs for already-answered questions. This is not a "community support forum" for those people who just picked up a new device and what to "r00tz that ****z" so they can play pirated games and tether for free. This is a community for people to work together on technical aspects of our amazing devices, and squeeze every drop of power from the silicon/glass/plastic devices we all love so much. Yes, people are people, not everyone will search properly, and yes, the majority user-base of XDA has changed a lot over the past 3-4 years. That doesn't mean you can just do whatever you want and not follow the clearly posted XDA rules. And it doesn't mean you have the right to post threads of "OMFG I can't believe how mean all these people who donate their time for free to the community are". Get over it. If you want to idly chat and whine about this that and the other, there are plenty of other places on the internet to do that. XDA is not the place.
Originally, there was very little hostility around XDA over stupid or silly threads. This was because they were so rare, and were often honest mistakes. I don't want to read about your whining and complaining about people being mean. You're right, I *could* just skip over the thread and not say anything (which, undoubtedly, many folks are given the responses so far). But you posted it in the Galaxy S2 i777 General Forum. This thread has nothing to do with the i777 GS2. Whine elsewhere, or be flamed. That's the long and short of it.
Good luck and welcome to XDA!
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And it's the responses like this that go on this 'better than you' mentality trip that are starting to make it not as enjoyable. It's a crock of crap. XDA wouldn't be as big as it is had it stayed strictly a developer community. And the devs wouldn't get as many donations either. I do agree that there are some that abuse that 'New Thread' button. But in all honesty, the search feature on forums isn't that great. Also, some of the contributing members here didn't start out knowing what they're doing. They aquired that knowledge here. So instead of flaming, giving a [email protected] comment, or telling then how to fix it, why don't more people 'teach them to fish'. I may not know a ton about the SGSII, but I sure try to help anyone I can. I am, however, probably one of the most knowledge people on here when it comes to the automotive field. You can only imagine the crazy stuff people come up with to ask on the auto forums, but I've never just blew them off cause they couldn't find it using search. I've just found it and pointed them the right direction. And if the info isn't out there already, I try to explain to them the mechanics behind it to try to educate them a little more than they already are. I can't stand the ones that just spit out some action to try with no explination as to why to try this or that. At some point, that extra knowledge may come in handy and hopefully save that person some coin on getting their transportation back on the road. So having said that, why don't we all get a long and help each other out? I initialy came here looking for help, but I stuck around because of the great community. I'd hate to see people never come back because of a few people ruining the atmosphere of the community.
bigblue95z said:
And it's the responses like this that go on this 'better than you' mentality trip that are starting to make it not as enjoyable. It's a crock of crap. XDA wouldn't be as big as it is had it stayed strictly a developer community. And the devs wouldn't get as many donations either. I do agree that there are some that abuse that 'New Thread' button. But in all honesty, the search feature on forums isn't that great. Also, some of the contributing members here didn't start out knowing what they're doing. They aquired that knowledge here. So instead of flaming, giving a [email protected] comment, or telling then how to fix it, why don't more people 'teach them to fish'. I may not know a ton about the SGSII, but I sure try to help anyone I can. I am, however, probably one of the most knowledge people on here when it comes to the automotive field. You can only imagine the crazy stuff people come up with to ask on the auto forums, but I've never just blew them off cause they couldn't find it using search. I've just found it and pointed them the right direction. And if the info isn't out there already, I try to explain to them the mechanics behind it to try to educate them a little more than they already are. I can't stand the ones that just spit out some action to try with no explination as to why to try this or that. At some point, that extra knowledge may come in handy and hopefully save that person some coin on getting their transportation back on the road. So having said that, why don't we all get a long and help each other out? I initialy came here looking for help, but I stuck around because of the great community. I'd hate to see people never come back because of a few people ruining the atmosphere of the community.
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Uhh, most of the developers and users here couldn't care less how "big" XDA is. And second, as Entropy512 pointed out, most devs don't care tremendously about donations. Yea, when I really like something, or have some extra cash, I'll kick a developer a few extra bucks. But it's not really about donations or popularity. And I don't think a single Dev here is actually living off of the donations from XDA users...
And further... if you check my post history, you'd see I in fact do try to "teach people to fish" all the time. And more often than not, I'll just answer a n00b question rather than flame. And yes, the Forum search isn't the best, hence why a Google "site:xda-developers.com YourSearchTermHere" is a useful alternative.
XDA is not a n00b friendly forum. If you're a new user looking to learn about Android or phones or whatever for the first time... there are other places to do that. It's called "xda-DEVELOPERS" for a reason.
Devs have holier that thou attitudes. They act like they shouldn't be bothered by stupid nub questions. Yet they feel compelled to answer them and ***** about doing so...
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda premium
use the search function and this will not happen.
/thread
Over the past month, Divine_Madcat and myself have seen a steady increase of new users join our forums. While this is a good thing, they all seem to suffer from the same thing... they cant read.
D_M and myself are constantly tending to reported posts (thank you BTW for those of you that do report posts to grab our attention to something that needs attending to) and threads. We seem to accumulate a lot of new threads which are basically questions like "How do I root my phone" or "I flashed 4.0.3 and now I cant make phone calls" or "How do I flash back to Stock?" which could have all been answers if two minutes were taken to look at the sticky threads...
We are in the process of trying to remedy this and have a few ideas up our sleeves. When more develops on this, we will let all of you know.
Speaking of Sticky threads, those are about to get a facelift too. Instead of having a huge plethora of sticky threads, we only need a few. Expect some new sticky threads to go up that encompasses the same information that is already there... it will now just be easier to see, refer to and be in one place.
Red5 said:
Speaking of Sticky threads, those are about to get a facelift too. Instead of having a huge plethora of sticky threads, we only need a few. Expect some new sticky threads to go up that encompasses the same information that is already there... it will now just be easier to see, refer to and be in one place.
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Good to hear, I always thought we had way too many stickies that just confuses people.
I think there should be a test to verify that you can read and use the search function before you are allowed to post. And a probationary period where if a mod catches you asking a stupid question, you get sent back to the tutorial.
Though to be accurate, like my old sergeant used to say, "There are no stupid questions, only stupid people who ask questions".
SmittyRN said:
Though to be accurate, like my old sergeant used to say, "There are no stupid questions, only stupid people who ask questions".
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LOL....i love this.
we have a quote on our wall at the office:
'You can't fix stupid'
It would be great if new users couldn't post for a month. They would then be forced to search for the answers they need.
As I said, we have a few options we are throwing around... determining on which ones are actually possible and can be done on XDA is still being planned out. However, something should come out of it that will help with this issue.
Yeah, the idiots that CAN'T EVEN READ THE DAMN STICKIES and then whine about why they were attacked for NOT READING THE DAMN STICKIES are frustrating.
There is, across the Internet, at least one piece of forum etiquette that is almost universal:
READ ALL STICKY THREADS BEFORE POSTING. Why can't users learn this?
Entropy512 said:
There is, across the Internet, at least one piece of forum etiquette that is almost universal:
READ ALL STICKY THREADS BEFORE POSTING. Why can't users learn this?
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We're going to try and beat that into Users who have 10 posts or less on one way or another.
Entropy512 said:
Yeah, the idiots that CAN'T EVEN READ THE DAMN STICKIES and then whine about why they were attacked for NOT READING THE DAMN STICKIES are frustrating.
There is, across the Internet, at least one piece of forum etiquette that is almost universal:
READ ALL STICKY THREADS BEFORE POSTING. Why can't users learn this?
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stop being mean and just give me a link that tells me the answer i am looking for....psha
First offense, they get rickrolled.... 2nd offense, 2 girls/1 cup.... 3rd offense, OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!!!
Don't change a thing. I need this place to counteract my chronic low blood pressure.
SmittyRN said:
First offense, they get rickrolled.... 2nd offense, 2 girls/1 cup.... 3rd offense, OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!!!
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I think we need to be aggressive - 2g1c on first offense.
Entropy512 said:
I think we need to be aggressive - 2g1c on first offense.
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+1 No mercy!!
Entropy512 said:
I think we need to be aggressive - 2g1c on first offense.
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I demand retribution for commonly asked questions. I say when someone asks for something that's searchable, give them a CWM flashable zip that changes all of their app's icons to 100% transparent and removes the app names under the icon. That'll show 'em!
I like to suggest making the stickies stand out more. Right now the only difference is the little pushpin, which I admit I miss sometimes myself. Yes they are at the top, but it always looks likes there's a ton of them.
Some grouping box around them that says "STICKIES!! - READ THESE BEFORE POSTING ANYTHING!"
Highlight them a different color or something even.
Granted, that probably requires forum coding, which I don't know if mods can do (not skill, just accessibility).
Just my opinion. Take it for what it's worth.
This is no different than the sign on a storefront that says "please use other door"... about half of the people will invariably try to walk in the locked / faulty door anyway.
I've seen this same thing on literally every forum I've ever been a part of so I for one look forward to seeing what the "powers that be" come up with to eliminate or at least minimize stupidity and redundancy once and for all.
SmittyRN said:
First offense, they get rickrolled.... 2nd offense, 2 girls/1 cup.... 3rd offense, OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!!!
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after the second offense...there would be no third...
alex4lex said:
after the second offense...there would be no third...
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I'm probably the only person in my gang that has never actually seen the vid. Everyone tried to get my to watch it, told me how gross it was, and I was like "why the frack would I want to watch it then?". To me, it's kinda like, "I think this milk is spoiled, taste this". Uhm, no thank you, I'll take your word for it.
A few things to consider -for a tough problem -
Moderators spend more time enforcing accurate post subjects. "Help Me" "I have a question" etc.
Close the stickies when they become redundant, off topic, or terminally "thanks", "that worked" etc.
A newcomer's forum. Those who want to help bring up the novices can check into this forum along with the newcomers helping each other out. Moderators can move posts that should be in this forum from forums where they don't belong. This could the "one month quarantine" forum for new registrants. Moderators could move posts to appropriate forums if the feel topic has wider appeal
A user moderation system like slashdot. slashdot isn't a question forum, but the user moderation system could be used for browsing over unwelcome posts tagged as newcomer, duplicate, etc
A forum that welcomes everyone and belittling of anyone for any reason isn't tolerated: hometheatershack. You will see newcomer questions handled only by those who really want to help; some members gently encourage newcomers to be more resourceful. The forum rules strongly encourage everyone to search around first. You will see the grizzled titan patiently answering the dumbass questions for the umpteeth time. Others obviously pass over them silently.
A middle ground like diyaudio, a forum populated by the world leaders in audio electronics. There is the occasional frustration at the newcomer but most just pass over or pitch in and keep teaching.
It is a tough issue. Just a few ideas from a long time forum user and newcomer to phone hacking. I've learned a lot from xda. Thanks!
Red5 said:
We're going to try and beat that into Users who have 10 posts or less on one way or another.
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I must admit I am guilty of this. The problem I have is while using the xda premium app , the search tool doesn't seem to let me search a specific forum , it searches all of xda. It is quite possible i am missing something but maybe this is something that can be changed in the app. Entorpy thanks for all your DD work, GTG thank you for unnammed , red and m.c. ty for being decent and understanding mods , and of course miami thanks for the criticism.
I've seen a LOT of questions that are already answered in the amaze bible, linked in my signature.. feel free to ask any general questions here after you've gone thru the bible- but chances are, the answers are in there! If anyone finds a question that isn't answered, I will gladly add it to the bible, or I can add you as an editor if you wanted to help keep it organized!
But PLEASE search it, I'm quite sure it will answer 99% of any question you have!
Lol it's not gonna change, you know that. It's been in all of our sigs from day one yet hardly ever used.
As long as people continue to provide answers for everyday questions, the new folk, the lazy folk, and the entitled have no need to use it. I understand wanting to help but there has to be a line. The absolute worse thing XDA has done since I've been a member was implement that Thanks button.
I helped this guy but did it in a way he'll have to learn...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1916456
dkb218 said:
As long as people continue to provide answers for everyday questions, the new folk, the lazy folk, and the entitled have no need to use it. I understand wanting to help but there has to be a line. The absolute worse thing XDA has done since I've been a member was implement that Thanks button. A competition to help...
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This community (Amaze 4G) isn't based on the thanks button, trust me, if it was I'd still be around a lot more than I currently am. But due to the factor than people are lazy and in some cases really slow, the unnecessary post will continue, even though that line has been drawn and tried to be implemented, but questions here are better than them flooding the dev section.
Dark Nightmare said:
This community (Amaze 4G) isn't based on the thanks button, trust me, if it was I'd still be around a lot more than I currently am. But due to the factor than people are lazy and in some cases really slow, the unnecessary post will continue, even though that line has been drawn and tried to be implemented, but questions here are better than them flooding the dev section.
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Prior to that thanks button if a new person asked a questions that was asked a thousand times, nine times out of ten the response would be "search". This is XDA wide. When I joined XDA, Android didn't exist. Windows Mobile. Back then you were darn near cursed out for asking a question. The attitude was "this is a developers site. Not a question and answer forum. The answers are on the board. Find them!"
There is no question asked that isn't answered on this board.
dkb218 said:
Prior to that thanks button if a new person asked a questions that was asked a thousand times, nine times out of ten the response would be "search". This is XDA wide. When I joined XDA, Android didn't exist. Windows Mobile. Back then you were darn near cursed out for asking a question. The attitude was "this is a developers site. Not a question and answer forum. The answers are on the board. Find them!"
There is no question asked that isn't answered on this board.
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Haha, back then I'm sure very few knew the answers, but at least things were SEARCHABLE! Now if I ever want to search something, I find mostly questions that have "search" as an answer!!
It may be pointless to try to get people to use it, but we already put in all of the work.. and damn it, when I need an answer, I'd much rather find less questions than answers! When searching that is!
Anyways, I posted it because I think perhaps having our thread in the development section isn't as helpful as it would be here.. perhaps we can have it moved.
Dark Nightmare said:
Lol it's not gonna change, you know that. It's been in all of our sigs from day one yet hardly ever used.
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It WAS being used for a good while! At one point, there was ALWAYS more than 20+ people in it at a time.. but I'm sure those who wanted answers used it less, and it isn't like there's a whole lot to update until something new happens, lol.
I know many may disagree. But I need to get this off of my chest. I get tired of people that don't want to help or or are just rude about giving advice. I thought forums were supposed to be a community of people that are here to help each other, not belittle them.
I understand that some questions are obvious and sometimes people don't do enough research before asking questions. But here is my opinion: if you don't want to give an answer other than the typical "do you know what Google is?" Or the ever present rude comments then keep it to yourself.
The whole idea of how a person can be rude on the internet without any sort of consequence because they are sitting behind a computer or a phone or what have you is disgusting to say the least.
The concept of being kind to each other is nearly gone in this world...
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2
im not one the many cause i agree with you on that..
Sent from my SHV-E160L using xda app-developers app
It has a lot to do with placing a tremendous amount of value in something that really doesn't mean anything all, one's ego. If some people got over themselves and spent the same amount of energy to help as they did to be snotty and cocky, this would be a much better community to learn together. Instead some would rather hold on to their knowledge as they think it elevates them. Get over yourself and contribute. This is a community, not a place of worship.
Thank you for taking the time to create this thread.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2
Also these ppl fail to realize is that even tho the question has already been answer it makes easier for noobies to find the answer without sifting through 500 pages.
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This doesn't belong here.
This section is for General topics concerning the device itself, there is an actual xda General section to post general topics concerning all of xda.
this is a development site first and foremost, not a help desk, you're perfectly ok to post your questions in the q&a section, and most roms should have an accompanying q&a thread so as not to have the same questions come up making reading the thread to see what DEVELOPMENTS have occurred get buried in a mess. If that were adhered to more it would go smoother.
Furthermore there has been a depressing shift in the user attitude as of late that is kinda burning us old timers out.
Instead of working with devs and getting a nice feedback, a vast majority is demanding and entitled.
Like the post a couple above me
...You know the answer just answer me, otherwise shut up...
Whereas it should be
"You've worked hard let me put forth a bit of effort so you can have some spare time"
TL;DR
you say they are rude for telling you to search.
Whereas you're being rude by not searching.
studacris said:
This doesn't belong here.
This section is for General topics concerning the device itself, there is an actual xda General section to post general topics concerning all of xda.
this is a development site first and foremost, not a help desk, you're perfectly ok to post your questions in the q&a section, and most roms should have an accompanying q&a thread so as not to have the same questions come up making reading the thread to see what DEVELOPMENTS have occurred get buried in a mess. If that were adhered to more it would go smoother.
Furthermore there has been a depressing shift in the user attitude as of late that is kinda burning us old timers out.
Instead of working with devs and getting a nice feedback, a vast majority is demanding and entitled.
Like the post above me
"You know the answer just answer me, otherwise shut up"
Whereas it should be
"You've worked hard let me put forth a bit of effort so you can have some spare time"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your point is understood and that is a side i did forget and my statement was more geared toward the one that actually need the help verse the pertinacious fellows that are out here being lazy i ment no offense with my statement
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Ah, the old prickly problem of internet ego. I can say anything that I want because I sit behind this keyboard and am not face-to-face with the actual person. I love you!!, I hate you!! You are a genius. So stupid, smh. So easy to type these things. Very few have the cojones to say these things to someone's face. Hence the dawn of the e-peen.
Sorry to say that it is here to stay. I believe it first showed its head shortly after Al Gore invented the internet. In fact I think that his e-peen was the one that first broke through because, well he invented it.
When I first came to XDA, I knew very little about Android. I knew what Root was and that was about it. So I read and read a bit more. The phone I had was released and abandoned on Éclair (no app2sd), a locked bootloader (wtf was a bootloader) and only had 256 RAM and 512 ROM. Not a lot of space. So we had to repartition our extSD card to create a partition to where the apps could install. That meant learning how to partition/format an SD card, learning the scripts to run it and then the actual install with terminal. It took time. Fortunately there was a few people in that forum that helped as much as they could. No one was spoonfeeding but rather spurring a possible future dev. Plus they we just being nice.
Fast forward 2+years. Android has gone from a niche market (Donut/Éclair) to a superpower in the market (GB/ICS/JB). Everyone knows someone who has an Android. Before this boom, it was all about Nokia, HTC and Blackberry, none of which used Android as a platform.
With fame come the masses. Like I said above, everyone knows someone with an Android device. Teenagers, business people, grandparents,...heck I've taught my two young sons how to root their Nook Colors and they are in K & 1st grade. Guess what site is almost alwasy at the top of any Android Google search? ---> XDA-Developers.
The best thing that I can tell you is that if you can help, then please do in one of two short posts. Anything beyond that, then they need to do more research and reading. It doesn't cost anything to answer, but if someone responds with a snarky remark and then it escalates, well that could cost you your privileges of being able to post here via infractions and bans for flaming. No one wants that. Steer the questions to the Q&A section and out of the Dev section(s). The Q&A sections is a "dumping ground" so to say. It was created to relieve the non-development posts in dev threads. It works, if use correctly.
Searching is Rule #1 but there is also Rule #2 about being Courteous and Flaming. Just because they are #2 doesn't make them any less important.
tl;dr Answer if you can in 1 or 2 posts. If not, then direct to Q&A. No flames but try to be nice about how you respond.
Didn't mean for this to be so long but I see this thread at least 10 times a week.
Thread Closed
Oooh wait, I forgot something. One way that you can help people that are actually using the Search function is to put thread tags at the bottom of the threads. That way when someone searches, maybe that thread or issue will pop up. I just checked the Dev section (not OrgDev) and in the top 10 threads in there, not a single one has any Tags in it. Could be useful to put some in there, don't you think? Fixed a problem with GPS, then put a tag in there like "GPS fix on pg 152". BT now works, put a tag in there that "BT is working on this ROM".
Al Gore didn't invented the internet? And Woody Sir...I love You!:silly::silly:
I remember a time when people were helpful on XDA. They would share knowledge, help others who know less. Unfortunately, those days are long gone.
I have referred many friends and acquaintances to XDA Developers, telling them there are many very experienced guys - and girls - who are happy to help you... It gives many of them the experience they need.
But a number of these people would tell me that the people on XDA are, basically, jerks! Rather than complain along with others, I hope to get through to at least one of you.
XDA began as a site where anyone with a specific handheld device could ask any question in order to get help...with any problem they would encounter. It grew and added other devices. Now XDA has become the most reputable go-to site for help with any kind of phone. If anyone knows anything about phones they know XDA Developers.
Guys, this should not be a place to show-off, or to be rude or intimidating. Often, there are people with questions, or need help, advice...and they don't know anything. These are the people who need help the most. Your help. Please treat people the way YOU would want to be treated when YOU did not know anything at all. That is all I ask.
Thank you.
If you ask nicely, in the right place, you'll get an answer.
The problem is when people come demanding this or that, being rude and asking questions in the wrong places.
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my expirience is i been in 2 phone sections the skyrocket galaxy s2 and the lg g2.
in the s2 there were very helpful but when i came here i notice the same thing rather then getting help you get unnecessary post or answers.. or making fun of you or beign smartasses.. ive had a few arguments with some guys in here so they know who they are
the way i think is teach someone that someone will teach another, we are all different some will get it, and to some will be more difficult. instead ofa bogus post why not share link or type a helpful post.. then if you aint helping why post at all just ignore and go on with life..
CiscoKydd said:
I remember a time when people were helpful on XDA. They would share knowledge, help others who know less. Unfortunately, those days are long gone.
I have referred many friends and acquaintances to XDA Developers, telling them there are many very experienced guys - and girls - who are happy to help you... It gives many of them the experience they need.
But a number of these people would tell me that the people on XDA are, basically, jerks! Rather than complain along with others, I hope to get through to at least one of you.
XDA began as a site where anyone with a specific handheld device could ask any question in order to get help...with any problem they would encounter. It grew and added other devices. Now XDA has become the most reputable go-to site for help with any kind of phone. If anyone knows anything about phones they know XDA Developers.
Guys, this should not be a place to show-off, or to be rude or intimidating. Often, there are people with questions, or need help, advice...and they don't know anything. These are the people who need help the most. Your help. Please treat people the way YOU would want to be treated when YOU did not know anything at all. That is all I ask.
Thank you.
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Click to collapse
As a moderator and very active member of this community I see a lot. There are threads that I participate in as a member and those are the most friendly, helpful threads. I am actually shocked at the helpfulness and politeness in spite of the fact that people asking the questions failed to read as close as 2 posts above which had their answer. More and more members have joined this community and do not want to read even the basic requirement of the OP of the thread before they attempt to modify their $600 device. Too many members want an answer NAO without having to go to the trouble of reading or searching a little. The very first rule asks all members who join to search first. When I joined in 2010, I read for a month before making my first post. XDA was not a help desk then. It was a place to share knowledge. This is two very different things. People who genuinely want help, how to theme, how to change something, how to know how to adjust a kernel and figure out the best setting for themselves...those people usually get the help they need. But people that refuse to read, expecting the members of the thread to do it for them...then ask a question in a development thread like "Do I need root for this?" Then proceed to ask to be spoon fed how to do it? This probably will annoy some members that have done a little reading. So yes, the site has changed...you can expect that with going from a million members in 2010 to 7 million now. And on the other hand we do have rules regarding member conduct as well, and members should respect the new members and guide them..make this the site they want it to be and once was. I understand what you are saying but I also see many sides of this. I see new members being rude, demanding answers, expecting someone to answer within an hour of their question, as well as the other side of someone rudely stating "Search!". So it is not just one sided. Unfortunately I see this as a sign of what society in general is becoming as we overpopulate this poor ball of dirt hurtling through space.
Thank you, KennyG123. I cannot disagree with anything you stated. In fact, it reminds me that I forgot to mention to new members that they be polite, also. I cannot help but to agree with you 100%. We all need a little reminder sometimes. So I hope that someone...anyone reads this and think about how they treat others. I need it, too!
Again, Thank you, KennyG123.
This thread should be a sticky
Enjoyed this thoroughly.
Been on since my little Frodo Sony Xperia mini x10i (what a name) and right here are the two sides of coin.
When I came on I knew nothing - and asked some dumb questions, and did the searches etc.
Many of those searches came back with stuff I could not understand. And some of the people reproducing this info were jerks - concerned only with obfuscation and an invitation to pm.
However, people were not rude, so eventually you find someone same level or a little higher and you're off.
Then suddenly the nicest thing happens - someone asks for help...and you CAN help. You recognise yourself and step in and it's good - EVEN IF just to remind them that the answer is on the page before, and sometimes searching first will help. And this without the eye-rolling condescension...you all know what I mean.
I too have referred people here, impressed with my 'knowledge', and I'm like, no, look, it's this great community of people......and then have them come back all discouraged and they may as well just stick to whatever the corporations foist on them.
Then on the other hand, a couple of years ago I noticed a proliferating of the other kind of jerk - you know them also.
Badgering the creator of a post for eta's with funny emoticons, I just cant wait, are we there yet, huh, are we there yet, and by the way do you think we'll be getting Smartie for our phones, and over on the 'other' device, they've got the code to overlay on Marshmallow to port to Smartie, their phones are so much better, and more whining, and maybe YOU can do the port, and are we there yet, I'll check back in an hour, and oh ya, how do I root yadiyada - there's a stickie, first post by the way.
That also is plain rude. There's a community, find out a little about it first, or read the phone manual at least.
For both instances I find one thing; real XDAers do not snap at people, don't jeez I wish you'd read something first, aren't put off by being referred to search either, won't make anyone feel like they're time here has been wasted, nor that anyone else is dumb, they've all been there.
These are the fakers, and posers, and always, ALWAYS, at the centre of some flame war.
Of course sometimes you want to voice your opinion on something and read others too so over-moderation kills the fun. There can be discretion, and it is clear when a discussion has gone from heated to just plain chest thumping - step away.
So, you know, use common sense.
Finally, just one more thing, I learnt good moderators are actually very helpful...For anything.
Pm something. They'll point you somewhere, guaranteed. Let them know if you feel like you're being bullied WITH A LINK to where this is happening and they'll show up and clean up the thread and keep safe. Though look, if YOU are the one stirring stuff up and then reporting, that too will be seen, and in my experience, that's looked at as a worse offence than just not searching first, so be sure.
Something HAS happened to the entire world of social internet that I find reprehensible. People have become rude simply because it makes them feel better to put someone else down in style.
I don't know when it happened exactly - and it's everywhere, Reddit, Facebook, wherever.
At XDA we can at least keep reminding people to just have a good time and don't be rude. Do whatever you like; research and grow or ask stupid questions, just don't be rude. We care about everyone on here.
We actually do.
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CiscoKydd your thoughts are echoed by many on XDA. Heck we mods have the same thoughts from time to time.
This
CiscoKydd said:
XDA began as a site where anyone with a specific handheld device could ask any question in order to get help...with any problem they would encounter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
actually wasn't the guise under which XDA was created. It was a site by developers for developers. There were many times when a Dev would tell people to F off but by in large (as it is today) many were willing to share their knowledge.
CiscoKydd said:
Guys, this should not be a place to show-off, or to be rude or intimidating.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We simply call this group the entitled.. Ask them, they will tell you it is so:silly:
A big change implemented a few years ago on XDA, came about with this small group in mind. We call it the report system (explained here):good:
While we like to see this behemoth (XDA) run like a well oiled machine, there will always be a wrench thrown into the cog. We (moderators/admin of XDA) ask that you NOT let yourselves get dragged into the battle of wills. A simple report with a simple explanation (in said report) usually lets us deal with a situation with little, to no drama left behind in its wake.
CiscoKydd said:
Please treat people the way YOU would want to be treated when YOU did not know anything at all. That is all I ask.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cheers to that mate:good:
As membership continues to grow we can only hope that the few that read this remember why we are all here, to share and help others with what you know.
I have been "crying" to XDA for a number of years for help. I always got the help I needed. Most important, I got an education. There is more knowledge here on XDA than I could ever absorb! The hardest part was learning to search. But once I got over that hump I felt... Powerful!!
And I need to remind myself to be understanding, patient, respectful. You guys are right. It ain't easy sometimes. But XDA is a learning experience.
You guys are a good and knowledgeable bunch. Thanks. For everything.
I honestly feel this dependence on the question. I usually just look at topics rather then post in them, and I can see some people ask a certian question that other people regret as nubish, so suddenly they have "Nub mode" on. I just want them to remember that they, once upon a time were these so called noobs too.
Obviously this is not true about the majority of the people, just some.
Move this thread to "android general" or something, its useless to have it here
A short and good note mate ! but why here ?
Thanks for bringing this up.
Eminemiero said:
Move this thread to "android general" or something, its useless to have it here
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rajkatiyar07 said:
A short and good note mate ! but why here ?
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Click to collapse
I assume the OP has a G2 and felt he would like to post his opinion on the subject in his general section.
This is fine:good:
TonyStark said:
Thanks for bringing this up.
I assume the OP has a G2 and felt he would like to post his opinion on the subject in his general section.
This is fine:good:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No problem Mr. Stark !
Regards :- Jarvis
I don't know why but I really miss 2010 to 2012 gingerbread days
OP is right. I think this situation becomes because of release xda themes after 2010 version. I'am using 2010 theme and I think after 2010 themes are very compilcated and makes users nerveous and this is the reason why anyone not want to be help each other.
George Jetson said:
I don't know why but I really miss 2010 to 2012 gingerbread days
OP is right. I think this situation becomes because of release xda themes after 2010 version. I'am using 2010 theme and I think after 2010 themes are very compilcated and makes users nerveous and this is the reason why anyone not want to be help each other.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats funny, I came here in 2013 and I think that theme's the best and everything else is complicated. I miss the kitkat days.
Alradaev said:
I honestly feel this dependence on the question. I usually just look at topics rather then post in them, and I can see some people ask a certian question that other people regret as nubish, so suddenly they have "Nub mode" on. I just want them to remember that they, once upon a time were these so called noobs too.
Obviously this is not true about the majority of the people, just some.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't remember ever being flamed for making a noob question. One of my first posts on this site was a silly question in a dev thread and the developer (LenAsh) just answered it respectfully. Maybe I'm one of the lucky ones but my noobishness was only ever met with kindness and help.
I don't think I've experienced any rudeness when I've (albeit rarely) asked any questions since I started my Android journey in early-mid 2014. Before that I was an iOS guy, before that a Final Fantasy XI guy (MMORPG, was a moderator for a while of one of the biggest FFXI websites created by my best friend), and so on and so on. All forums that are a bit on the nerdy/technical/gadgets side have a problem with rude people. Lest we not forget the adage that the delightful guys at Penny Arcade put into a perfect cartoon: regular person + anonymity (sometimes)= bag of douche.
Having been a moderator I understand the frustration occasionally felt by @KennyG123 and @TonyStark. Why are some people such freakin jerks, yet others will type the same thing 10,000 times just to feel like they've helped 10,000 people. Why do some people read and search and learn first for a while before asking anything, yet others will ask (and almost demand) to have their hand held at every. single. step.? Maybe it's human nature?
I'm all about helping and being nice. Online and off.
people tend to ask first read later or no read at all.
they just want to post the question then go and do their own thing, come back later to see the answer.
while the thread starter wasted their own time to type the multiple posts of information/FAQ.
and last, this post should not be in this section as this is not even android related.
you post the wrong question in the wrong section and you still hope to get an answer?
I've been on the HTC wildfire, Nexus 5, Nexus 7 2013, Nexus 9 and LG G2 threads and have always found the other XDA members to be most helpful, (even though I'm not a flashaholic.)
However, I do make sure to search before asking questions and can therefore understand the frustration of answering questions that have been asked many times before. :angel:
So true but it seems out side of the G2 forums, there are still good people.
I had a good experience in the nexus 6 forums, never once got asked to "search before asking" best part of it is that I don't even have a N6 and the question I asked was actually illegal/criminal, I didn't know that at the time and those members explained in detail why it was illegal without bring disrespectful to me.
I honestly blame mods for not being strict enough.
I brought up a few specific xda members that were out right harassing people and I presented my case with evidence of repeated harassment.
The mod told me that I was over reacting. I said that by not doing anything about it they were condoning the action.
I wanted to strangle that mod, completely worthless. Police that don't enforce.
If the mods would start banning the few that are bringing xda down, then the problem would be solved.
But they won't do anything!
Mods have their work cut out for them here and I know they are doing the best they can, but it's not focused correctly to rectify the problem.
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