I am wondering about the feasibility of constructing an external antenna for the razr. Primarily, is there any way of interfacing with the radio, perhaps through usb, that avoids taking things apart? I'm uncertain of the feasibility behind modding the hardware to any useful extent.
Thoughts?
Its possible to do most anything, however I wouldn't recommend this. You'd have to disassemble the phone, at least down the level of removing the back housing, as I believe the antenna is located with the camera bulge, though I'm not positive. The connector, if there is one, will be very small and delicate, though you may be able to expose the antenna wire itself in order to extend it.
Still, I have no idea how you would make an external antenna without cutting up the case, and everything is extremely narrow and delicate so I'm not sure where you could even pass it through, then you'd have to create some sort of housing for the antenna itself, and I'd imagine you'd want to firmly attach it to the device, seal it, and try to keep it from looking too horrible. That part would be extremely difficult.
I have some experience taking apart phones and other electronics, fixing and upgrading them, and even plan on doing the Maxx conversion as soon as parts are available, but I wouldn't feel comfortable doing this. At the very least I'd wait until spare parts are more readily available, as you'll probably break something. Again, where there's a will there's a way, so if you're comfortable taking electronics apart, study some teardowns, think about your strategy and get everything you need before you start tearing your phone apart, and realize that you do run a significant risk of irreparably damaging your device.
Why do you feel the need to do this? I've found the RAZR's reception to phenomenal, as good or better than anything I had back when phones still had external antennas.
I remember back in the days of me using my Nokia n95, there are modifications to improve GPS reception.. Which requires you opening the phone housing, solder some copper and let the copper wire run around the free space in the housing which improved GPS significantly to allow agps to be switched of but still able to get a lock acceptably fast.
But why on razr? My reception of radio and GPS is very good..
Sent from my Motorola Razr XT910
JehTeh said:
I am wondering about the feasibility of constructing an external antenna for the razr. Primarily, is there any way of interfacing with the radio, perhaps through usb, that avoids taking things apart? I'm uncertain of the feasibility behind modding the hardware to any useful extent.
Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What for? The signal quality is great by default. If not, you might just need to move.
seanmcd72 said:
What for? The signal quality is great by default. If not, you might just need to move.
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Click to collapse
Agreed
\\Carved into this thread by my RAZR//
http://android-gz.com
I am inclined to agree that it seems a rather tedious and unfeasible task to modify the actual inbuilt phone antenna. This is why I am curious if there is any other possible method of routing a signal to the radio; as best I can determine there seems to be no options aside from modifying the antenna itself.
I would like to note that I have no problems with the phone's reception as-is, but there are some special cases where the ability to attach a large passive antenna would be preferable to using a signal repeater.
LOL, I remember researching the exact same question when I first got my OG Droid.
@OP: Are you talking about Wi-Fi, CDMA (3G), LTE (4G), or just reception in general? I'm not certain, but I don't think it's even possible to build a multi-spectrum auxiliary antennae (especially for anyone who's not an actual engineer). Antennae design is practically an engineering discipline unto itself, and I'm willing to bet money that a home grown antenna would would actually make your reception worse due to interference/signal corruption. Plus, any time you add more than about a foot of antenna length, you have to put in an intermediary signal amplifier, or you'll start dropping packets like crazy. There's just way too much to consider (and trust me, I would freaking LOVE to find a way to do something like this). In the past when mobile technology consisted of more discrete components? Sure. Nowadays in the age of SoC (system on a chip)? Nah ah.
In terms of a USB antenna, I honestly don't know if anyone makes these. If they exist, or if you're such a ninja you manage to build one (let me know if you do :-D ) there's no way to make your device's radio interface with an antenna over USB. Even if it could be done, you'd have to fundamentally rewrite the way Android controls/interfaces with radios (plus write your own drivers), and after all that, you'd be killing your connection speeds by forcing the signal through a software interface prior to being used by the radio itself.
I hate to say something is impossible (we are talking about Android, not friggin' iOS), but let's just say this one is better left alone. That being said, if anyone out there has a degree in electrical engineering and could actually pull something like this off, I'd love to be proven wrong.
If you're having signal issues, I'd suggest researching the factors that can affect the specific connection you're having trouble with. When looking at reception, make sure to compare signal strength using dBm values and not something like how many 'bars' of signal are displayed. The best/simplest solution is to get a wireless range extender and/or cellular signal repeater. Not as much fun as building cool s*** from scratch, I know. Guess it depends whether you're looking for a destination or a journey.....
Sent from my Droid Razr Maxx
jptaktix101 said:
LOL, I remember researching the exact same question when I first got my OG Droid.
@OP: Are you talking about Wi-Fi, CDMA (3G), LTE (4G), or just reception in general? I'm not certain, but I don't think it's even possible to build a multi-spectrum auxiliary antennae (especially for anyone who's not an actual engineer). Antennae design is practically an engineering discipline unto itself, and I'm willing to bet money that a home grown antenna would would actually make your reception worse due to interference/signal corruption. Plus, any time you add more than about a foot of antenna length, you have to put in an intermediary signal amplifier, or you'll start dropping packets like crazy. There's just way too much to consider (and trust me, I would freaking LOVE to find a way to do something like this). In the past when mobile technology consisted of more discrete components? Sure. Nowadays in the age of SoC (system on a chip)? Nah ah.
In terms of a USB antenna, I honestly don't know if anyone makes these. If they exist, or if you're such a ninja you manage to build one (let me know if you do :-D ) there's no way to make your device's radio interface with an antenna over USB. Even if it could be done, you'd have to fundamentally rewrite the way Android controls/interfaces with radios (plus write your own drivers), and after all that, you'd be killing your connection speeds by forcing the signal through a software interface prior to being used by the radio itself.
I hate to say something is impossible (we are talking about Android, not friggin' iOS), but let's just say this one is better left alone. That being said, if anyone out there has a degree in electrical engineering and could actually pull something like this off, I'd love to be proven wrong.
If you're having signal issues, I'd suggest researching the factors that can affect the specific connection you're having trouble with. When looking at reception, make sure to compare signal strength using dBm values and not something like how many 'bars' of signal are displayed. The best/simplest solution is to get a wireless range extender and/or cellular signal repeater. Not as much fun as building cool s*** from scratch, I know. Guess it depends whether you're looking for a destination or a journey.....
Sent from my Droid Razr Maxx
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Click to collapse
Sorry, I should have mentioned that my sole concern in this case is the gsm band, and I am unconcerned with maintaining a data connection.
As far as designing the actual antenna goes, it is non-issue. I am currently studying electrical engineering myself, and my father has been working in the field for around thirty years and can assist with any hangups, if necessary. My primary concern, again, is interfacing with the device. If there proves to be no reasonable way to accomplish this, then I will likely end up constructing a signal repeater. Unfortunately, that is a good deal more tedious than a passive antenna and (hopefully) relatively little coding.
My apologies sir, I think you may know way more about this than I do. You're much better equipped than I am to tackle something like this. I studied mechanical engineering and computer science so I understand some basic EE principles (which I use to stumble through things like overclocking), but my strong suit is most definitely on the intangible soft(ware) side.
Anyway, what I said about using a USB interface still stands. There is a bi-directional pathway between your phone's USB interface and the cell radio (as seen in contexts such as internet connection sharing over USB), so in a highly theoretical sense it should be possible to programmatically facilitate the kind of communication you want. But the devil, as you know, is in the details.
There are a million potential obstacles, the greatest of which may be trying to procedurally disable input from the internal antenna while your passive auxiliary antenna is connected. If you're willing to sacrifice signal latency and a ton of CPU cycles you could theoretically run the radio input through an algorithmic filter before feeding it to the system (I doubt even a dual core mobile processor would be able to sustain a logic based signal filter and it's operating system simultaneously. If only the Razr had a Tegra 3 chipset....). Utterly no idea if this is doable. I would highly recommend reading what's relevant on the Android Developers site as a starting point, and then working your way back through the fundamentals of Linux/Unix (at this point you will know infinitely more than I do). That's the most efficient method I can think of for assessing Android as a viable platform, if you can't get a definitive answer.
It's worth mentioning that obtaining unadultered design specs for the SoC/board/handset/etc can be really hard to dig up nowadays unless you've got an inside source (anyone have a friend who's 'in the know' they'd like to share?).
Anyway, I can't believe I type this entire freaking thing on my phone...
To implement a modification like this would take a much higher degree of practical expertise in ground-up development than I possess, so I can't tell you much else. But this site is a breeding ground for world-class genius. If there is someone in the world who can help you, he posts on this forum.
Sent from my Droid Razr Maxx
I would not see the need? The radio/signal strength on the razr is among the best available. Motorolas have always been known for great signal strength/reception.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using xda premium
Adauth said:
I would not see the need? The radio/signal strength on the razr is among the best available. Motorolas have always been known for great signal strength/reception.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using xda premium
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Click to collapse
Lolz at Adauth...thanks for helping! Read any posts lately?
Sent from my Droid Razr Maxx
JPtheSmith said:
Lolz at Adauth...thanks for helping! Read any posts lately?
Sent from my Droid Razr Maxx
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Click to collapse
"Lolz" right back at you. Grow up.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using xda premium
JPtheSmith said:
My apologies sir, I think you may know way more about this than I do. You're much better equipped than I am to tackle something like this. I studied mechanical engineering and computer science so I understand some basic EE principles (which I use to stumble through things like overclocking), but my strong suit is most definitely on the intangible soft(ware) side.
Anyway, what I said about using a USB interface still stands. There is a bi-directional pathway between your phone's USB interface and the cell radio (as seen in contexts such as internet connection sharing over USB), so in a highly theoretical sense it should be possible to programmatically facilitate the kind of communication you want. But the devil, as you know, is in the details.
There are a million potential obstacles, the greatest of which may be trying to procedurally disable input from the internal antenna while your passive auxiliary antenna is connected. If you're willing to sacrifice signal latency and a ton of CPU cycles you could theoretically run the radio input through an algorithmic filter before feeding it to the system (I doubt even a dual core mobile processor would be able to sustain a logic based signal filter and it's operating system simultaneously. If only the Razr had a Tegra 3 chipset....). Utterly no idea if this is doable. I would highly recommend reading what's relevant on the Android Developers site as a starting point, and then working your way back through the fundamentals of Linux/Unix (at this point you will know infinitely more than I do). That's the most efficient method I can think of for assessing Android as a viable platform, if you can't get a definitive answer.
It's worth mentioning that obtaining unadultered design specs for the SoC/board/handset/etc can be really hard to dig up nowadays unless you've got an inside source (anyone have a friend who's 'in the know' they'd like to share?).
Anyway, I can't believe I type this entire freaking thing on my phone...
To implement a modification like this would take a much higher degree of practical expertise in ground-up development than I possess, so I can't tell you much else. But this site is a breeding ground for world-class genius. If there is someone in the world who can help you, he posts on this forum.
Sent from my Droid Razr Maxx
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was always under the impression that in the case of tethering, android was not so much handing over the entire radio connection, but instead providing an application with Internet access, which that application then "passed on" through the usb or wifi modules. If this is not the case, then perhaps there may be something here. Otherwise, I am uncertain if this is feasible. Essentially building a "virtual radio" strikes me as unlikely to work, due to, as you mentioned, the fact that it would likely require considerable processing power in addition to a great deal of programming work.
Adauth said:
"Lolz" right back at you. Grow up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude, lighten up. I was just messing with you.
Anyway, I'm pretty sure you're right: without a lot of programming there's no chance of doing this (and probably not even then). Looks like you're only option is to go analog....BTW, is this project part of an assignment, or is it just for fun?
Sent from my Droid Razr Maxx
Not part of an assignment. And I've been looking into it, the choices are basically as follows:
-Build an inline switch that enables either the current antenna or an external port, into which an antenna can be wired
-construct a device that essentially mirrors the current antenna and supporting hardware, and *possibly* find a way to interface to this via software over usb
-use an active repeater
So I think it's safe to say that a (relatively) simple hardware modification is the ideal solution in this case.
Related
"Pure Speculation" WiFi and Bluetooth are getting a makeover. GPS being Removed.
This is pure speculation and I have no hard facts to back it up but I've always said, "If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck......it's a duck".
We all know that the Prime is not in any retail stores at this moment and it's debut has not went full swing yet. A couple batches of pre-orders have shipped but that's about it. Some websites now are showing they won't have any in stock until next month.
In my opinion, Asus stopped shipping orders out to retailers due to the WiFi, Bluetooth and GPS problems. Let's face it. This tablet isn't so popular yet that Asus can't keep the orders up. They realized they had to go back to the drawing board and either redesign or replace the antennas used for WiFi and Bluetooth. The next large wave of Primes should be the revised version which will have much better WiFi and Bluetooth performance.
Asus knows that it would cost them a lot less in the beginning if it just kicked it's chop shops into overdrive in order to ship a fully working tablet rather than getting a bunch of returns and a bad name in the process.
Now, when it comes to the GPS, this is more of a conspiracy theory but it makes sense. We all know that Asus removed "GPS" from the spec sheet and the reason they did is because this second revision of the tablet WILL NOT have a GPS chip inside or it will have it's GPS chip disabled. This is much easier and cheaper for them in the long run because they realize it will never work properly or efficiently without a WiFi signal.
Like I said before, this is just a theory but I just can't imagine why this tablet was supposed to be released in full force prior to Christmas and still continues to slowly trickle. Please don't tell me the tablet is so popular and that's the reason it's hard to get your hands on one because the general public doesn't even know about it yet.
If its a theory put it on the thread title.
And write it in capital letters..THEORY...
rubi76 said:
If its a theory put it on the thread title.
And write it in capital letters..THEORY...
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Click to collapse
+1 I hate threads with so obviously baited titles. Just wrong.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium
rubi76 said:
If its a theory put it on the thread title.
And write it in capital letters..THEORY...
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Click to collapse
I can't think of better words to say...thanks given.
OP...please change the title...if you don't know how then ask.
Thread title changed. Didn't mean for it to be a bate and switch which is why I started off by saying......wait for it......"THIS IS PURE SPECULATION".
Anyone could have easily stopped reading and move on at that point.
jrwingate6 said:
Thread title changed. Didn't mean for it to be a bate and switch which is why I started off by saying......wait for it......"THIS IS PURE SPECULATION".
Anyone could have easily stopped reading and move on at that point.
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Click to collapse
Thanks for the change in title. With that said I've got to say that your piece is well written and an interesting theory...we shall see.
Doesn't google require GPS for any device connected to the market? I don't think they could remove GPS entirely . . .
Deletion please
richaoj said:
Doesn't google require GPS for any device connected to the market? I don't think they could remove GPS entirely . . .
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Click to collapse
No. Bottom of the page...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1428200&page=13
Actually, this tablet is that popular that they more than likely been having trouble keeping up with orders. look how in the beginning alot of peoples orders got cancel because the online retailers didn't get enough units or Asus cut the numbers down sent to particular retailers. probably to make sure there was at least enough to go around to various outlets.
as far as Asus stopping production and completely redisigning, I highly doubt it. As far as Asus knows there's only a GPS issue. that's a problem across the board. the wifi and BT one isn't. seems to only be affecting some users. they already solved the GPS issue by removing it from spec sheets and anyone who sends Prime in, to get fixed for GPS, will have it removed more than likely. people who still have units with GPS will more than likely still receive updates n such for GPS to make the best of it.
demandarin said:
as far as Asus stopping production and completely redisigning, I highly doubt it.
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Click to collapse
I agree with you. If they were going to do that they might as well have changed the back cover. Pulling a chip, taking out an antenna, and making some s/w modifications really isn't a big deal in the greater scheme of things. Certainly not as complex or costly as coming up with a different back cover.
The gps issue really need to be nailed down to its root cause, seems to me there are units out there with good gps performance. If the metal backplate is really the problem then we should not see all units with poor results. i just can't believe that the FCC approved this product without verifying the compliance to specs. To me it's probably a bad batch because of poor quality control, the next shipment around the end of the month could hopefully show a significant improvement and an ICS upgrade.
---------- Post added at 09:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:12 PM ----------
Correction: "we should see all units with poor results"
tedr44 said:
The gps issue really need to be nailed down to its root cause
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Click to collapse
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5285/asus-eee-pad-transformer-prime-gps-issue-explained
Excellent write up, so the gps was not tested from the beginning and when they did test it, it was conducted with the alum backplate to demonstrate the problem but I kinda wonder why they didn't test it without the backplate which would be a whole lot more convincing imo. It's just too bad that Asus did not learn from the Ipad mistake so we will just have to live with this deficiency since the fix is too costly. Guess I'll just have to keep my phone gadget handy for gps use. Thanks.
>i just can't believe that the FCC approved this product without verifying the compliance to specs
The FCC is concerned with RF-radiating equipment complying with power and spectrum limitations, for interference reasons. The GPS module/antenna is a passive receiver and thus is not tested.
>I kinda wonder why they [Anandtech] didn't test it without the backplate
That would require a complete disassembly--not just removing the back shell, but all the components attached to it. It's not a feasible option.
Note that there was no bluetooth testing, either. I suppose we'll see another mea culpa about it next.
It's not just Anandtech. All of the tech blogs gave the Prime rosy reviews with nary a complaint. I'm surprised that not more criticisms are directed at these sites.
In a sense, I understand their predicament. The Prime was the only next-gen Android tablet coming out during Xmas. It's got quadcore. It's got iPad-like looks. And it's reasonably priced. Nobody wanted to be a Scrooge and give it bad marks.
The thread that Adam and others are using for development level conversations about the unlocking of the bootloader is awesome, but it goes over the head of many of us enthusiastic noobs.
This thread is so that we can try and move our questions and confusion to here so as to un-clog the other thread.
It looks like the only way to bypass the bootloader we have seen so far, is to perform a hardware mod. After the hardware mod, we should be able to boot from SD or reinstall the ROM.
Discuss!
If i first get to have the chip from outside USA i surely will go for it, if its totally worthy.
Really, for me, it depends on just how involved the hardware mod is---whether it requires soldering and such.
Sent from my rooted Nook Tablet using Tapatalk 8)
I wouldn't mind doing it myself, no matter the level of difficulty. Also a send-in service by some 3rd party company (N2A comes to mind). We'll see what the success rate is, and what can be done.
I already opted for $50 more than the KF, then another $40 for a 32gb sd card... i cant see spending even mor eto buy the mod chip. At that point, i shouldve bought a better tablet.
I'll wait on a software bypass, it'll get here eventually.
Plus, i have no interest in linux. I doubt i even need ICS, but if it comes and its free... why not?
From what I have read so far the hardware mod would not be challenging or expensive. Two screws and 4 solder points. According to Adam the chip is only $3 USD, and I would assume that it could be programed with a printer port.
I already opted for $50 more than the KF, then another $40 for a 32gb sd card... i cant see spending even mor eto buy the mod chip. At that point, i shouldve bought a better tablet.
I'll wait on a software bypass, it'll get here eventually.
Plus, i have no interest in linux. I doubt i even need ICS, but if it comes and its free... why not?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the cost of the SD is irrelevant. You would have to do this with any tablet, and if your comparing to the KF then this one section of your argument is even more so invalid.
The mod chip also looks like it will be very inexpensive.
EDIT: I highly doubt ICS will be released for our tablets by B&N ever... So we will be waiting for someone like the CM team to get it working for us.
The hardware mod interests me even if solely as a way to learn a bit about embedded security. I do find it unsettling that I can't install linux on my linux computer.
I don't want to be dependent on having a boot sdcard installed at all times. A hardware modification is good ONLY if it leads to PERMANENTLY disabling the anti-hack mechanism so that the hardware modification doesn't have to be performed again every time the device is booted up.
I would accept precisely this;
Plug in some device,
Boot on sdcard,
Modify the secure boot process WITHIN DEVICE STORAGE (not within RAM),
Remove device,
Store on shelf until it is needed for another hacking project.
There are multiple options for modification of the secure boot process, in particular, replacing the signing keys stored on the device allowing us to use OUR OWN signing key to satisfy the secure boot process. Another option is to eliminate the signature check. I believe that the former will be simpler since it is just a DATA modification rather than reverse engineering.
I wonder if the hardware has an equivalent of "S-OFF" that HTC phones have? As I recall, on most HTC phones, there is a ONE BYTE EDIT that has to be made within one partition of the eMMC to TOTALLY disable all of the device's bootloader sig checks and hardware write protect. The issue was that the partition in question would be hardware write protected. Presumably, with the hardware modification for NT, a similar state *should* be achievable.
The_Joe said:
Would you hardware mod your NT?
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Click to collapse
Absolutely not!
I also wouldn't because you never will get your in the same condition as it was before you opened it and everybody can see that you did something to the device. You also don't have warranty anymore after that process.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk
Pete1612 said:
I also wouldn't because you never will get your in the same condition as it was before you opened it and everybody can see that you did something to the device. You also don't have warranty anymore after that process.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whaaaaa???
Unlike you, most intelligent people will select jeweler's tools to open something like this rather than a crowbar and a sledgehammer.
Further, most people would actually perform the modification using a temperature controlled and grounded soldering iron, rather than an acetylene torch, thus no damage caused even internally.
As far as warranty goes, it is EASY to restore it to factory condition, unless you use the Neanderthal approach to hardware modification, in which case warranty provision is determined by YOUR HONESTY to only warranty it for something that YOU DID NOT CAUSE (in which case there is no morality issue to be worried over).
I also wouldn't because you never will get your in the same condition as it was before you opened it and everybody can see that you did something to the device. You also don't have warranty anymore after that process.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Soldering is not that big a deal once you have developed the touch. I am fairly certain that I could solder the four wires required for this chip and then later un-solder them and no one would be able to tell.
It's a great device regardless of installing a ROM. I just rooted it and installed the gapps and OTA block. I still have all the B&N stuff and everything work fine. I have all the apps loaded I want (that make sense without gps and 3g) and I WOULD hardware modify this puppy in a heartbeat to get back what I have if B&N happens to force an OTA through that took away root.
I have been having a lot of fun trying lots of different apps and schemes. The hardware mod is easy and I have already taken it apart and looked at where the soldering goes and it is back together without a hitch.
Big hand to the devs who are doing their thing so we can do ours.
Bill
Oh yes, I'm sure he had a rock and mallet in mind for the modification. How neanderthal of him to suggest that hardware modification is well out of his, and many other's, reach.
It's easy to unroot. I doubt physically messing around with the internals using any manner of ultra sophisticated museum art thief tools will leave behind changes that are unnoticeable.
Duely blundered from my thunderdolt
I would do it just to do it. I am one of those guys that just like to mod stuff for the hell of it. No, I'm not very good at creating any of the mods, but if it will make my experience better and it's not rocket surgery, I'm game.
As for the warranty issue and opening up the case, it really doesn't look like its that big of a deal. I am guessing that with a set of precision screwdrivers and a guitar pick it can be opened simply and be very nearly undetectable. Besides, if I am going to open it and solder it, I am not worried about the warranty anyway. If someone IS worried about it, then they shouldn't be doing anything that will void it.
JM2C
First... let's start with a a few definitions.
com·put·er - n.
1. An electronic device for storing and processing data, typically in binary form, according to instructions given to it in a variable program.
2. Also called processor. an electronic device designed to accept data, perform prescribed mathematical and logical operations at high speed, and display the results of these operations.
3. A device that computes, especially a programmable electronic machine that performs high-speed mathematical or logical operations or that assembles, stores, correlates, or otherwise processes information.
tel·e·phone - n.
1. An instrument that converts voice and other sound signals into a form that can be transmitted to remote locations and that receives and reconverts waves into sound signals.
SO... I was browsing around XDA, and I couldn't help but notice all of talk we have accumulated over this whole HBoot 1.5 deal, not have the NAND unlocked, crummy source code releases from phone companies, sprint and many other phone companies monitoring every little thing we do, people's contracts being terminated for "accessing torents".... a whole laundry list of problems people are having with various aspects of owning their "phone" and not having freedom to truly do whatever they want with it.
I started pondering the idea that cell phones, tablets, the whole scene, are slowly starting to replace the use of a personal lap top or desk top. Many people, such as myself, use their "phone" as a very handy mobile business tool - much like you would a computer - checking/sending emails, downloading music, managing bank accounts, keeping up with the latest news on facebook, recording/sharing/editing high quality media, playing games, programming and testing software, composing and looking at word, excel, powerpoint, adobe... just to name a few... documents. Oh, and making phone calls.
Back to the "thought" that came to mind as I was contemplating this, it occurred to me that my phone, is becoming much less of a phone to me, and more like a computer, and just like my computer it is something I have paid and continually pay good money for...
My question, then, is would the free world (society) ever tolerate the limitations, and obnoxious "control" over their personal computers that we are all rolling over on our backs and accepting from phone companies? Could this idea that phones are becoming, and ARE, more a computer than a phone in the year 2012 and furthermore at what point will we stop accepting this type of tyranny from the dealers of these devices? Could this not be comparative to best buy selling you a laptop, then the cable company telling you exactly what you are and aren't allowed to do with said laptop, simply because they are providing you the PAID FOR service of their internet? Where and when are we going to draw the line with this type of double standard and make a valiant effort to bring this to the attention of people who are walking in blindness, with their little computers in their pockets, with their big phone company telling them exactly what they can and cannot do with their phone? If I want to buy a lap top, then turn around and rebuild it to my liking, knowing the warranty may be void if something goes wrong, and maybe over something as simple as not liking the color of the menu screen, do I not have that ability? Likewise, if I pay hundreds of dollars for a portable computer, which fits conveniently in my pocket, and I decide I want to tear apart the software simply to rebuild it or improve on things that do not fit to my needs EXACTLY, am I not allowed to do this simply because I am paying for internet and radio reception and the company selling me such service says "no, that is not allowed" because they say so? If this type of control or dictatorship was ever forced upon our personal computers, there would be riots on the doorsteps of the people selling us the computers and internet service. Why then do we tolerate this bull**** with something cell phone companies call a "phone" but something we all know is just as useful, and extremely more convenient than, a lap top.
Why is there no freedom to do whatever we please with our pocket sized computers? Why do cell carriers tell us what we can and cannot do with the devices they sell us, then make us pay for continually? The average person will spend approximately $1,800 dollars on "cell phone" services over the course of a contract. By the time that contract is up, their hardware is outdated, and needs replacing to keep up with the software and hardware advancement in the mobile electronic world. Does that wreak of computer or phone to you? My parents have had the same house phone in their living room for the past 10 years, and it does exactly what it was always designed to do, and does not need "upgrading". Why are "cell phones" being called cell phones by Sprint, Verizon, T Mobile, and many other companies that sell these devices by the millions when they are hardly phones at all? If my laptop has an application on it, which it does - skype, that is designed to simply make a phone call every now and then among the hundred of other things I use it for, does that mean I should call my lap top a cell phone? Simply because I can talk to cell phones from it? Or is it a computer, because it's primary function is to compute data that I store on it, and read that data back to me in millions of different ways and interact with me based on what data I decide to access/store in it? "Cell phones" are not cell phones, and why are we allowing people to tell us otherwise, simply so they can dictate to us what we do with them? I think it is time we start bringing this to people's attention. I think it is time to start raising this question to "cell phone" companies and manufacturers of these expensive devices, then turn around and tell us what we can and cannot do with our "cell phone." I say we start giving a big fat middle finger to this injustice and go on the offense here about this huge issue. I don't want your spyware bull **** on my computer, I don't want to be told what websites I am allowed to visit/not visit, I don't want you locking me out of my computer's OS, I don't want you collecting random statistical data about what apps I use, I don't want you invading my privacy. I just want to buy my damn computer, pay for your radio service like I do with my laptop and comcast, and not have any other relationship with you other than a monthly payment. I am one of those who enjoys freedom. And if I want to pick apart the software that you pre-loaded into my device, for learning experience, for ****s and giggles, for the pure sake of not being bored, give me the freedom to do it ENTIRELY... Not in some half ass way.
Our "phones" are not phones. Make this known the next time a "phone" company calls you with their ridiculous "rate your experience at our store" phone calls. In fact, request that they do call. Write a letter. Hell, copy and paste this entire rant and email it to [email protected]... whatever the hell you do, stop letting people walk all over you by feeding you lies about what that device in your hand truly is, which you are reading this post from.
Be vocal, and be defiant with this major invasion of privacy and freedom. It will turn heads and cause people to question the powers that be. Does ANYBODY have a right to tell me what I do with MY computer? Hell no they don't.
+1
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA Premium App
You sir, a a born philosopher.
Nicely said.
Evo 3D taking it to Redline!
TL,DR..................................
Agreed in full.
PS. The first one to flame should get banned from XDA! and their phone removed by the FBI...
lol
Meh, its still just a phone, the "phone" has just evolved. All technology has a 2 year cycle. And as long as you have to go through a carrier, they will be able to tell you what you can and cannot do.
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
Cool Story Bro. Now seriously, you may have a point there athough if this did happen we would probably end up laying full price for our phones. Where do you ever see a desktop with 250 instant savings if you setup Verizon home and phone service in your area. It's an iffy situation. Once we call these "phones" computers they will end up being treated as such. I can't imagine how much the cost of an app would go up just because my phone is no longer considered a mobile platform.
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
The phone is simply no longer a phone. With the recent software that allows us to run x86 OS's in your hand with nothing more than a disk image and a text edit, the term "PC in your hand" is indeed a reality. As this wonderful visionary has so stated in so many words, where does the line that separates computer and phone begin and end. And the simple answer is, it doesn't begin or end because it doesn't exist.
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eXplicit815 said:
TL,DR..................................
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sameasdislololol
ha, if you think you aren't paying full price for your phone through the back door (your monthly bill) you are fooling yourself. they compensate themselves greatly with that little rebate you "save"
my point is simply that our "phones" are not phones anymore. they are computers. i have a phone, at my house, and it makes phone calls. what it doesn't do is keep me logged into skype, facebook, twitter, my email accounts, my netflix account, my pandora account, my bank account, or record pictures, videos, then allow me to do much of that stuff at the same time and in a timely manner.... much like my lap top does.
i was on a little bit of a stick it to the man kick last night i'll admit...lol... but really ask yourselves, "is he right here?" i think so. it would not be a stretch at all to say our personal mobile computers are being monopolized and freedoms are being infringed upon simply because we have been told to call these mobile computers "phones"...
have they evolved from what they were? certainly. i remember when my cell phone was simply a cell phone. the reality is that i use my phone for things i used to use my computer for.... as somebody said before, that line between phone and computer has been quickly fading and is nearly gone, so why treat our phones any different than we would a computer? and why shouldn't we expect nothing less than complete and utter personal privacy for these devices? and just as you buy a desktop or lap top and have entire administrative control over it, why is this not being allowed on these ones that are hand held? it is a sick double standard that is there to simply control what you do with the device. the fact is, people would be in an uproar if companies such as dell, or gateway, or apple, or comcast, etc treated you and your desk top the way you are being treated with your "cell phone"
Dude, you're absolutely right! If anyone disagrees, its because they have been brain washed for so long they don't know any better. Come to think of it, I hardly use my "phone" to make phone calls. The sad reality, though, is that I don't see change any time soon. We have given the carriers too much power and, just like government, they never give that power back.
But I mean, this if what the man is good at, like for real. They sell us on an idea, put the product in our hand, say "do anything you can imagine with it" and out in the fine print "but only do what we allow you to imagine, nothing more!" For example, just because it plugs in, in a sense anyway. I have a NextBook Premium 7 tablet. I have also started developing roms. The problem my partners and I ran into was the limitation of space on the thing (210 mb after root, 160 mb before root), after converting the file system from the manufacturer version to a version that the typical phone runs (ext3) and editing the parameters, the thing has a gigabyte of free space. To plug this into the topic at hand, what the electronic market does by limiting the possibilities of what our devices can do is keep money in their pockets, because they (for example) release a 3vo with a 1 gHz processor, the release a sensation with a 1.2 GHz, putting emphasis on the ".2" for $100 more. Then come back and sound the release of a quad core 1.5 GHz phone, again putting emphasis on the ".5" and are going to throw ANOTHER $100 on to of the sensations price tag after rebate. When in fact, the 3vo can be over clocked to 1.5 and be stable, the sensation can hit that 1.8 with its eyes closed, and I'm quite sure a quad core can push 2.0 GHz plus on a bad day. The average consumer doesn't know this though, and the average consumer happens to be pretty much 95% of society with an Android phone smartphone, and unfortunately the consumer market plays on this lack of knowledge.
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eXplicit815 said:
TL,DR..................................
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Ditto
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EricSS619 said:
Ditto
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This should at the very least concern some of you. The way the technological world is headed, lap top and desk top computers could very well be obsolete in a few years. Entirely obsolete. Your “phone” will do all of the things your computer does, and dell will be in the “phone” business, not the PC business. Who is going to be in control of your “phone service”….??
Sprint, Verizon, T mobile, etc… turning a blind eye to this unfolding before our very eyes is ignorant and foolish. They will have us all by the testicles.
so my car is also a computer? Its got multiple CPU's, a place to watch dvds, and a 7" monitor with android OS on it. I drive a computer! sweet!
bloodrain954 said:
so my car is also a computer? Its got multiple CPU's, a place to watch dvds, and a 7" monitor with android OS on it. I drive a computer! sweet!
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well you are obviously out of your element here.
what is the MAIN function of your car? to drive. technically your brain is a computer. don't be a moron.
a hand held camera for example, has a speaker phone on it for recording sound with the video? correct? does it also have an image processor? yes it does. do we call it a voice recorder? no. we call it a camera.
my whole point is that our "phones" are far more similar to our "computers" and labelling them "phones" and treating them as such, by controlling them and monopolizing them and dictating what we are not allowed to do with them, is none of anybody's ****ing business but ours - much like what you do with your computer is nobody's business but yours. if i download torrents on my lap top, does dell and comcast walk in and remove the service i am paying for? no, they don't, because it is unlawful and not their element. furthermore, phone companies do not treat these devices with the respect they deserve, hence all the security flaws we uncover in the dev community. this needs to change.
cobraboy85 said:
This should at the very least concern some of you. The way the technological world is headed, lap top and desk top computers could very well be obsolete in a few years. Entirely obsolete. Your “phone” will do all of the things your computer does, and dell will be in the “phone” business, not the PC business. Who is going to be in control of your “phone service”….??
Sprint, Verizon, T mobile, etc… turning a blind eye to this unfolding before our very eyes is ignorant and foolish. They will have us all by the testicles.
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The phone "will" do nothing, cause it already does.! And though I agree that the ideal "desktop or laptop" will fade, the touchscreen PC will shine through eventually just as the phone did, I doubt regular computers will fade away at anytime in the near future.
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App
1. The code for phones is written on supercomputers, so you'll likely not see the complete dismantling of them in general. Maybe a huge drop off of personal (at home) computers/laptops, but not full scale pc absence.
2. Its the desire of the users to have the latest and greatest things to play with that feeds cell phone companies and allows them to control the experience.
3. The only true way to revolt against the companies, is don't buy the latest and greatest, or don't buy at all. We're only subject to our own temptations. You have to eliminate your dependence on your smartphone, and retract back to "the old way" (only make phone calls, write letters, etc). Its because you (general you) have allowed yourself to be reliant on your phone for so many aspects of your life that phone companies (manufacturers and cell service providers alike) have you by the balls.
ognimnella said:
The phone "will" do nothing, cause it already does.! And though I agree that the ideal "desktop or laptop" will fade, the touchscreen PC will shine through eventually just as the phone did, I doubt regular computers will fade away at anytime in the near future.
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App
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why would you want a touch screen PC when tablets and ipads and phones are already there? and what makes you think the technology will stay restricted to a display screen? virtual displays are already in the works and these will be implemented as soon as they can be. your "phone" could very likely one day fulfill every aspect of entertainment and communication that your standard home computer does. how do you not see this trend already taking a sharp rise over the last two years compared to the last 4 or 5? sprint and other carrier's line up of devices has taken a major overhaul over merely the last 5 years, and you think that trend is suddenly going to come to a screeching halt and dual core, 1 gig RAM, and 4 inch displays will be the standard for the next century or even 5 years? you are mistaken.
Sent from EVO 3D using XDA premium
I expect there is a minimum requirement that networks require from phone manufactures regards how often a phone polls the base station it is associated with, or how things are handled when switching from one station to the next.
Does anyone know anything more about this?
I wonder if it might be possible in some situations to lower the polling time. I wonder how that might affect battery.
That's not the only goal though, it's for interest's sake too. What would be good to search for to find out more on how 3G & GSM communicates in a easy to understand document rather than reading standards, which is hard going.
This is a new concept to me. There are no PCs that "just don't like Windows". With the same hardware, a PC will run the same software at the same speed with the same stability. All SGS II i777's have the same hardware, don't they?
There are of course variations in the quality (=bin) of some components, but that just sets voltage boundaries for a given clockspeed (or in extreme cases, makes a phone defective), but this shouldn't affect how a ROM runs.
What am I missing?
Why do some problems persist on what seems to be a clean install on some phones, and don't manifest on others? Do some ROMs run better because of different recoveries? What's left after a full wipe?
Obviously, installed apps and settings will make a phone perform differently, but that aside, shouldn't all SGS II run the same?
Eckyx said:
This is a new concept to me. There are no PCs that "just don't like Windows". With the same hardware, a PC will run the same software at the same speed with the same stability. All SGS II i777's have the same hardware, don't they?
There are of course variations in the quality (=bin) of some components, but that just sets voltage boundaries for a given clockspeed (or in extreme cases, makes a phone defective), but this shouldn't affect how a ROM runs.
What am I missing?
Why do some problems persist on what seems to be a clean install on some phones, and don't manifest on others? Do some ROMs run better because of different recoveries? What's left after a full wipe?
Obviously, installed apps and settings will make a phone perform differently, but that aside, shouldn't all SGS II run the same?
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Simple answer is no not all devices are made the same. You see this with mass produced hardware. As for your PC ref. My brother and I have the same laptop while mine loves my set up, my brother has nothing but problems with it on his system. It comes alot down to personal set up and device. This has always been the case with mobile devices and custom roms. Stock roms are set to run on all devices the same. This is not so with custom roms.
Eckyx said:
This is a new concept to me. There are no PCs that "just don't like Windows". With the same hardware, a PC will run the same software at the same speed with the same stability. All SGS II i777's have the same hardware, don't they?
There are of course variations in the quality (=bin) of some components, but that just sets voltage boundaries for a given clockspeed (or in extreme cases, makes a phone defective), but this shouldn't affect how a ROM runs.
What am I missing?
Why do some problems persist on what seems to be a clean install on some phones, and don't manifest on others? Do some ROMs run better because of different recoveries? What's left after a full wipe?
Obviously, installed apps and settings will make a phone perform differently, but that aside, shouldn't all SGS II run the same?
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Click to collapse
Zel pretty neatly answered this, but I will also add that modern consumer electronics interact with the immediate environment far more than our pcs do. Light sensors, 3g radios, barometers, etc. are far less deterministic than our classic closed-loop pcs. Part of this perception of flux is based on this real flux, for example one of the core features people will discuss is call/modem quality, but driver tweaking vs. actual signal strength is a pretty fuzzy battle for anyone but an electrical/firmware engineer. And just like in the pc world, when you're talking under volting and over clocking your mileage will vary.
If you are methodical and read all the materials, your phone will operate tip top. It seems to me a lot (not all) of the variances often do boil down to the users configuration.
Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner
I have fixed a lot of computers and have been flashing custom roms for a year and ill tell you, in my personal opinion, problems are 90% user error. If people would all install properly and wipe everything completely and follow everything they're told to do and read all possible material on what they're flashing they can, a huge portion of the problems would dissapear. But is that gonna happen? I hope so
Heck I make mistakes too. None of us are immune to screwing up right? Good luck all, happy flashing.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2
Eckyx said:
Obviously, installed apps and settings will make a phone perform differently, but that aside, shouldn't all SGS II run the same?
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Yes, they should and they do, absolutely with every ROM, stock or custom.
If they're purely, properly installed, they're all the same.
By "purely", I meant completely, virgin-like ROM without any add-on.
If you choose to install somethings else, to customize your needs or set it up the way you want, then it's a whole different ball game.
zelendel said:
Simple answer is no not all devices are made the same. You see this with mass produced hardware. As for your PC ref. My brother and I have the same laptop while mine loves my set up, my brother has nothing but problems with it on his system. It comes alot down to personal set up and device. This has always been the case with mobile devices and custom roms. Stock roms are set to run on all devices the same. This is not so with custom roms.
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Just to chime in on the Windows thing - we buy a standard build HP computer at work for all developers. But if you put the same Windows disk in two of them and boot and install accepting all the defaults, there will always be slight variations in the way it configures itself between the two. It's probably the hardware detection that does it, but I swear you could get two of the same build lot and you'd STILL get something that didn't set up the same way. Sunspots? Power surge during the process? I dunno, but it does vary
You cant change the disk. Your network adapter has a MAC adress on it... windows will know something has changed. motherboard also has one.
A PC component are not the same at all.
You can buy a good I7 2600k or a bad I7 2600k. There are revisions of the very same model of CPU, memory, everything and its really hard to make 1 equal another.
Another thing is that one smartphone is a lot more delicate piece of hardware and the most important, has limited power to it components.
That makes harder to change anything on it. A small change could lead you to a failure.
just blame it on the ghosts in the machine and be done with it
votinh said:
Yes, they should and they do, absolutely with every ROM, stock or custom.
If they're purely, properly installed, they're all the same.
By "purely", I meant completely, virgin-like ROM without any add-on.
If you choose to install somethings else, to customize your needs or set it up the way you want, then it's a whole different ball game.
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This is not the case. I have tested with two different EVO 4Gs and two different SGS IIs - of the same hardware revision, even.
I performed the same steps to root and ROM both of the sets of phones, and put the same ROM on them. There were no other apps installed, nor themes/addons. I then used each as my phone for a week, making sure that I installed identical apps and even synced app data.
Both performed differently. My i777 is the faster of the two, but my EVO 4G was the slower and more bug-prone.
Yes, this is anecdotal evidence, but I at least am convinced. Take it as you will.
Also the phones are made with lower quality checks than desktop. ie I can oc my sgs 1 up to 1.6GHz but uv of -25, the phone well restart. But other people can't go more than 1.2 and cab apply a uv of -150 on the same step.
This is a fact. Think if every phone it's done with high quality checks the price of the device will raise pretty high.
Once of the frustrating things is that the people responding on the forums, (ROM devs and regular users) often try to have it both ways.
If you're experiencing something they aren't, it's obviously your fault because it doesn't happen on their one phone so it can't possibly be anything but your own fault. Go wipe 50 times and do other things that will take 3+ hours each time and don't come back until you do.
Oh... you've done all that already and still having the issue? Oh well, all phones are different... tough luck, bro. I'm not going to spend any time on anything my one phone doesn't do.
(Never mind that a dozen other people have reported the exact same issue, and another several dozen are experiencing it but are too scared to post about it because they see how everyone else is being flamed, castrated or even banned for daring to suggest a bug.)
One way or another, it seems a convenient way to blow off users having legit issues.
While I suppose there might be slight deviations in components once in a blue moon, I think the "all phones are different" excuse is more often than not used as a way to easily dismiss people and issues without helping. It's been repeated over and over for so long now, the majority take it as "fact" without really putting much thought into how it could possibly be as widespread and dramatic as they're pretending it is.
I don't buy it.
Even just with modems... everyone's like, "Oh well all phones are different... some modems work better on some phones, or in different areas". What kind of BS is that? How on earth could any phone manufacturer then create a mass-market phone that worked across the country without hacking? I'm sorry, but you can't chastise and criticize the manufacturers for not producing the universal "uber-phone" that works great anywhere while at the same time admitting that "all phones are different" and therefore require hacking for your specific flavor or region. It's hypocritical.
I think it's very, very rare that actual hardware differences between the exact same model phone account for issues people experience, and is more often than not either user or dev (as much as they try to paint themselves as infallible gods) error that they don't want to bother with. "All phones are different" = "F-off, I don't want to deal with this"
sremick said:
Once of the frustrating things is that the people responding on the forums, (ROM devs and regular users) often try to have it both ways.
If you're experiencing something they aren't, it's obviously your fault because it doesn't happen on their one phone so it can't possibly be anything but your own fault. Go wipe 50 times and do other things that will take 3+ hours each time and don't come back until you do.
Oh... you've done all that already and still having the issue? Oh well, all phones are different... tough luck, bro. I'm not going to spend any time on anything my one phone doesn't do.
(Never mind that a dozen other people have reported the exact same issue, and another several dozen are experiencing it but are too scared to post about it because they see how everyone else is being flamed, castrated or even banned for daring to suggest a bug.)
One way or another, it seems a convenient way to blow off users having legit issues.
While I suppose there might be slight deviations in components once in a blue moon, I think the "all phones are different" excuse is more often than not used as a way to easily dismiss people and issues without helping. It's been repeated over and over for so long now, the majority take it as "fact" without really putting much thought into how it could possibly be as widespread and dramatic as they're pretending it is.
I don't buy it.
Even just with modems... everyone's like, "Oh well all phones are different... some modems work better on some phones, or in different areas". What kind of BS is that? How on earth could any phone manufacturer then create a mass-market phone that worked across the country without hacking? I'm sorry, but you can't chastise and criticize the manufacturers for not producing the universal "uber-phone" that works great anywhere while at the same time admitting that "all phones are different" and therefore require hacking for your specific flavor or region. It's hypocritical.
I think it's very, very rare that actual hardware differences between the exact same model phone account for issues people experience, and is more often than not either user or dev (as much as they try to paint themselves as infallible gods) error that they don't want to bother with. "All phones are different" = "F-off, I don't want to deal with this"
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Great so what you're saying is everyone that says this (especially devs) are a bunch of dicks. Nice.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2
Nick281051 said:
Great so what you're saying is everyone that says this (especially devs) are a bunch of dicks. Nice.
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That's actually not what I said at all, but I know it's a lot easier to summarize my post into one sentence that makes me look like an ass, than actually look at the points that I made.
sremick said:
That's actually not what I said at all, but I know it's a lot easier to summarize my post into one sentence that makes me look like an ass, than actually look at the points that I made.
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I read the whole thing and that's exactly what it says.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2
Nick281051 said:
I read the whole thing and that's exactly what it says.
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Nope. But let me simplify it for you:
1) There can't be the level of hardware variation that people claim. It's not seen in other electronics, and it's not been seen before the recent generation of smartphones. The assumption of its existence is a recent phenomenon however if it were real we'd see it everywhere, on other electronics other than phones.
2) If it were to really exist, people would lose the ability to legitimately blame the phone manufacturers for 90% of what they currently give them crap about, especially in regards to making a quality stock ROM. What are they expected to do, create thousands of variations of stock ROMs, one for ever county in the USA to compensate for this accepted "all phones are different" theology?
3) Due to it being repeated over and over and simply assumed to be true without any actual evidence to the fact, it's become a convenient way to dismiss user issues... even in the face of mounting evidence to the contrary on a specific issue. This unfortunate trend causes lots of friction between users and devs. Even if it were true, it's now become an over-used dismissal without allowing for the chance that the user might be right.
People can't have it both ways, but right now there's a lot of hypocrisy. If it's true, there's been no evidence actually shown... just anecdotal experiences that could be chalked up to any number of other things. And whether it's true or its not, either way a massive amount of thinking and behavior would then have to then change... but right now, people behave like it's true and not true at the same time, which is nonsensical and frustrating.
The simple answer is, there is no answer. Its the nature of the process.
I've had one click roms fail the 1st attempt only to succeed the 2nd without even closing the Odin just reconnect the phone.
Either you accept that and have fun with it. Or stick to stock and move on.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using xda premium
sremick said:
Nope. But let me simplify it for you:
1) There can't be the level of hardware variation that people claim. It's not seen in other electronics, and it's not been seen before the recent generation of smartphones. The assumption of its existence is a recent phenomenon however if it were real we'd see it everywhere, on other electronics other than phones.
2) If it were to really exist, people would lose the ability to legitimately blame the phone manufacturers for 90% of what they currently give them crap about, especially in regards to making a quality stock ROM. What are they expected to do, create thousands of variations of stock ROMs, one for ever county in the USA to compensate for this accepted "all phones are different" theology?
3) Due to it being repeated over and over and simply assumed to be true without any actual evidence to the fact, it's become a convenient way to dismiss user issues... even in the face of mounting evidence to the contrary on a specific issue. This unfortunate trend causes lots of friction between users and devs. Even if it were true, it's now become an over-used dismissal without allowing for the chance that the user might be right.
People can't have it both ways, but right now there's a lot of hypocrisy. If it's true, there's been no evidence actually shown... just anecdotal experiences that could be chalked up to any number of other things. And whether it's true or its not, either way a massive amount of thinking and behavior would then have to then change... but right now, people behave like it's true and not true at the same time, which is nonsensical and frustrating.
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No you're actually wrong because sometimes things CAN go wrong with flashing stuff. And modems in fact do work better in some places than others even though they try to make them universal it is very difficult to do that. Also, if a dev doesn't see a problem, how is he supposed to fix it? Riddle me that one. Also, restoring should take at most an hour with something like titanium backup. So 3+ hours is bull.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2
Nick281051 said:
if a dev doesn't see a problem, how is he supposed to fix it?
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He can start by not flaming the several people experiencing it (which scares away others also experiencing it, self-validating him and making him think the problem is less-common than it really is)
There's a difference between a problem being simply difficult for a dev to pin down and solve, and just attacking any user who dares bring up an issue that the dev himself isn't experiencing. Therein lies the hypocrisy, though: if "all phones are different", then a dev has to accept that a problem a user is experiencing might not be the result of stupidity on the user's part, and might actually be something in the ROM that simply didn't surface on the dev's phone, but is still something that needs to be addressed at the ROM level.
I totally accept that an issue the dev can't reproduce on his own phone is harder to resolve. But there are several devs who even make ROMs for phones they don't own anymore, and still manage to work with users to resolve issues. App devs do the same thing to resolve incompatibility bugs/issues with specific phone models the app dev don't own.
Also, restoring should take at most an hour with something like titanium backup. So 3+ hours is bull.
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Not quite. Just the backup alone takes 45+ mins on my phone. The restore is the same amount, so you've got 1.5 hours right there without taking into account everything else that TB doesn't handle that needs to be reconfigured by hand, or the actual flashing, and tracking down other surprises. And because I apparently am one of the few people who care about their data, I also back up my internal SD... just in-case something goes wrong. I know the wipe shouldn't touch it... but "**** happens" and if something goes wrong during a flash and I didn't have a backup, it'd be my own fault and I'd be subsequently flamed for that. So I play it safe.
Once again, a case of users for whom its quick trying to tell everyone else they're full of BS. I accept that for some users, whether it's the # of apps, amount of data, or whatever, it goes fast for them. Lucky them. Why can't they accept the fact that it's not "10 mins" for everyone like they spread around and flame others for suggesting otherwise?
Ok Here is the thing. I have personally been flashing and making custom roms for phones as far back as the Motorola razor v3. I have multiple phone running the exact same firmware, set up the exact same way and the have run totally differently. If all phone were made equal then there would be no returns due to issues the phone had as they would have all run the same and acted the same as the units that the OEM quality control tested. Lets take the Black Jack 2 as an example. The BJII was a WM phone that would self corrupt the system/media folder. This prevented any ringtones from working and the OS had to be reflashed. All this running on Stock firmware. This didnt happen to all of them, but became a well known glitch to anyone that did cell phone troubleshooting and repair. Did you ever stop to think why OEM and carriers dont use the roms from places like XDA? This is because things here are always under development. There will always be bugs. In the end the developers are making things for their phones and are nice enough to share it for others to use. Some do keep making roms for phones they dont have as this is overly not hard to do. They do this just to be nice. Except for the hardware drivers most of the under lying OS is all the same.
If a dev cant reproduce it then there is no way for them to fix it with the way people tend to report bugs. (The wrong way without the proper info)
Now lets jump to the present. I have 4 phones sitting on my desk. 2 are the HTC Inspire and 2 are the Samsung Captivate. Both running the exact same rom and apps, but guess what. They run very differently. On 1 Inspire and 1 captivate, I can OC to almost double, while the other 2 cant handle more then 1.2 over clock.
One of them also doesnt like the AOSP based software while the others are fine.
As for your backing up and restoring. It can take a long time if you have a TON of apps. Flashing custom roms are not for everyone. If you dont have the time or the want to learn something then you are doing it for the wrong reasons.
sremick said:
He can start by not flaming the several people experiencing it (which scares away others also experiencing it, self-validating him and making him think the problem is less-common than it really is)
There's a difference between a problem being simply difficult for a dev to pin down and solve, and just attacking any user who dares bring up an issue that the dev himself isn't experiencing. Therein lies the hypocrisy, though: if "all phones are different", then a dev has to accept that a problem a user is experiencing might not be the result of stupidity on the user's part, and might actually be something in the ROM that simply didn't surface on the dev's phone, but is still something that needs to be addressed at the ROM level.
I totally accept that an issue the dev can't reproduce on his own phone is harder to resolve. But there are several devs who even make ROMs for phones they don't own anymore, and still manage to work with users to resolve issues. App devs do the same thing to resolve incompatibility bugs/issues with specific phone models the app dev don't own.
Not quite. Just the backup alone takes 45+ mins on my phone. The restore is the same amount, so you've got 1.5 hours right there without taking into account everything else that TB doesn't handle that needs to be reconfigured by hand, or the actual flashing, and tracking down other surprises. And because I apparently am one of the few people who care about their data, I also back up my internal SD... just in-case something goes wrong. I know the wipe shouldn't touch it... but "**** happens" and if something goes wrong during a flash and I didn't have a backup, it'd be my own fault and I'd be subsequently flamed for that. So I play it safe.
Once again, a case of users for whom its quick trying to tell everyone else they're full of BS. I accept that for some users, whether it's the # of apps, amount of data, or whatever, it goes fast for them. Lucky them. Why can't they accept the fact that it's not "10 mins" for everyone like they spread around and flame others for suggesting otherwise?
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Click to collapse
I agree with your point about the dev/user relationship. It can get pretty hostile sometimes which is completely unnecessary. Recently, I've been trying to emphasize the respect rule, regardless of who you are. Patience and cooperation can go a long way. And as zelendel said, sometimes people do report stuff the wrong way, but there's no need to be rude about it. Again, patience goes a long way.
Back to the main thing though, I'm not entirely sure how 2 fresh-out-of-the-box phones would work with the same settings and ROMs, but as others said, environmental and external factors can stress the phone and stuff just goes wrong. My phone, for example, would not operate the same as a fresh-out-of-the-box SGS2, even if you put the exact same stuff on it. Stuff just starts freaking out, and I'm pretty sure my phone is having hardware issues :[