Is it possible to make Android NEVER automatically kills running apps, to have true multitasking like on Maemo and webOS?
I am really sick of it killing apps that I use.
I tried V6 supercharger, but that didn't help... I looked everywhere for an answer, but I never found one.
Surely there is a way to make Android multitask like a proper PC, where it's the user who manages apps?
(And please don't tell me that I should leave it to Android, that it knows better, and etc.)
Now, before you start defending Android:
Ever had your browser refresh the page by itself after switching to it?
Ever lost something you were writing when you switched to another app?
Ever had a video pause because you switched from the player?
That shows that Android does NOT have true multitasking.
Now, I see why Google did that - battery life. However there is a new class of devices, where battery life is not such a problem. Tablets.
And yet they still suffer from same issues.
Now, here's an example: the browser. Very often I'd come back to my browser, only to find that it is reloading the page I was on, wasting traffic, and losing whatever text I typed.
That's stupid, right?
I can even track back to what device did this first - the iPhone.
iPhone 1 had 8 times less RAM than your average high end device, yet they still have a similar problem.
So yeah. Not true multitasking. Even in the app switcher, notice that it never says "running apps", only "recent apps" - because it isn't a true multitasking app switcher, just a history of all recent apps you launched.
Go on, scroll to the very top, launch the oldest app on the list. I'm 99% sure that it has restarted. This would've never happened if Android had TRUE multitasking.
Now, there has to be a way to get that. Desktop Linux does it, so Android probably can too.
If you ever notice that the app restarts, it's the app that is badly implemented. All apps must be able to handle a restart by Android transparently to the user by saving its state. If not, tell the app developer to fix it.
Chrome, Dolphin, Boat, Maxthon, AOSP, ICS Browser+, Opera, Firefox.
That's a list of browsers that have this problem.
Do you really think that they all implemented multitasking wrong?
Again, it's a problem with Android - I don't want apps to save their state so that Android can kill them - I want them to never leave RAM at all.
SilverHedgehog said:
Now, here's an example: the browser. Very often I'd come back to my browser, only to find that it is reloading the page I was on, wasting traffic, and losing whatever text I typed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe dont answer all ur questions:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/...lication-is-that-frowned-upon/2034238#2034238
Apps who properly implement onSaveInstanceState() can come back, in case of web browsers is more complex to use it properly, texts or images are simple to imagine how to OS save on "disk" to retrieve later, what about sockets or open files (can be deleted while in background).
Android keep on background until the resources are needed for another task (and maybe a time limit, but dunno for sure), if happen very often w/ u means ur OS r using more resources than what need to keep on background.
Android has true multitasking, but... eh here's a link. Read yourself.
http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2010/04/multitasking-android-way.html?m=1
Sent from my MB508 using xda premium
But is it possible to make it so that apps do not get killed at all, just like in Maemo or a normal PC?
What you showed me is exactly why Android does not have true multitasking: it uses stuff like services to actually have less things running - and I don't want that. I want all apps to truly stay in the background - so a YouTube video would continue playing, just like when I minimize the browser on my PC, and etc.
I understand why that isn't the default behavior on phones, but it could be really useful on a tablet.
I don't want to be at mercy of app developers - since even Google messes up: every time I switch out of Google Talk, I lose what I was typing.
I'd much rather have a limited amount of apps that I can launch at a time, and be able to manage what I want to keep open myself.
What you are asking for is basically to completely change core Android behavior.
Sorry, but its just not possible
Sent from my DROID2 using xda premium
It is possible, because it's been done. There was a guy who did it over on the V6 supercharger thread, but I don't think the how he did it was ever released. Instead it was developed into a "kill apps only when ram is REALLY needed" method, which could run up to 20 apps at a time on some phones apparently
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
I get what you are talking about but I'd say is what device your using. My eVo 4g lte's was written screwed up by HTC. Maybe yours is like that too. My rom maker and other devs have done many fixes for it. It has got better but my eVo and eVo 3d still multitask better, and it is true multitasking. It doesn't work like I'm talking about on all devices, but for u to say it's all of Android.......... It's not.
Swyped from my eVo
The mulittasking in Android has some limits which are quite annoying. On my Droid 3 apps that I haven't used will start in the background and waste RAM so there isn't enough RAM to multitask and the device is laggy. I tried rooting and freezing bloatware, but other apps have just filled the void by automatically running in the background. I really wish the user had more control over multitasking. Unless I open an app I don't want it to start in the background, even if there is enough free RAM. But Motorola makes some pretty bad software so this could be the issue.
On my Touchpad with CM9 multitasking is quite a bit better. Not sure if its having 1GB of RAM, improvements in ICS, or just CM but you can actually run several programs at once without them closing, so my browser pages stay loaded.
gagdude said:
Android has true multitasking, but... eh here's a link. Read yourself.
http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2010/04/multitasking-android-way.html?m=1
Sent from my MB508 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
gagdude said:
What you are asking for is basically to completely change core Android behavior.
Sorry, but its just not possible
Sent from my DROID2 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then how come this was possible on iOS?
My iPad 1 was a multitasking beast with just 2 tweaks - Swap and Backgrounder.
Everything was smooth. And yet I can't get the same on devices with 4 times more RAM?
gagdude said:
What you are asking for is basically to completely change core Android behavior.
Sorry, but its just not possible
Sent from my DROID2 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did it weeks ago. Maximum Overdrive to bypass Maximum hidden app limit.
Just grab the Ultimate Jar PowerTools script or the windows exe version.
http://goo.gl/1JPl8
Also read Post 2 of the thread for a link to the windows.exe
Currently hacking Sense 4+ which seems to be working well.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1900626
Tried V6 - but apps I bulletproofed still get killed.
So yeah. Looks like the only thing I can do is wait until webOS gets ported to my tablet...
SilverHedgehog said:
Tried V6 - but apps I bulletproofed still get killed.
So yeah. Looks like the only thing I can do is wait until webOS gets ported to my tablet...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you patch services.jar with the multitasking mods?
Yes, with "Jelly ISCream Automatic Patcher".
V6 script showed me that I'm 100% supercharged.
well...I didn't experienced these kind of problem before. android indeed has good multitasking stuff. the number of app running on background depend on the ram size. you can't expect to run such heavy app with huge ram consumption on such device with low ram. anyway, you can try to play with minfree stuff. try to minimilize the value
The Note 10.1 can have side by side applications, is this what you kinda mean?
Sent from my XT862 using Tapatalk 2
SilverHedgehog said:
Yes, with "Jelly ISCream Automatic Patcher".
V6 script showed me that I'm 100% supercharged.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well the latest one is actually called Ultimate Jar Power Tools so if you ran that, and enable Maximum Multitasking Mods, then you should be getting better multitasking/app reloads.
The windows exe would do the same thing of course and is up to date.... well until I update it later cause I'm adding the Sense 4 mod.
Any idea about how many apps you can run before vs after?
oops... double post
Related
OKay, so this is my first android phone, coming from an Iphone 4 and let me tell you im about 80% disappointed.
Here are some problems im having, im hoping that you can help me turn that 80 into a 20.
1. Apps just randomly run in the background: I'll close all but my live background, my task manager and my alarm clock and go to sleep. When I wake up almost EVERY SINGLE app I have is running in the background. Why? How do I stop this, the Iphone never did this, I feel this is a hard fail on androids part.
2. Many apps force close while im trying to use them: Ive tried stock rom, and serenity 8, same apps same issues. Its becoming a turn off to use the phone for any apps.
3. Multitasking: Is there any? MOST of the time when I switch apps and "multitask" its just like having the app open at the start page, I dont have to reload the app but its not where I last left it like the Iphone. Even on web pages I find if I switch out of the web and go to another app if I return to the web im back at my home page and I have to go to my history just to get back where I was. Is there a way for me to fix this?
4: Ram usage: when I turn my phone off, then on I see 150 in the used ram. This number raises even with out opening any apps. I kill all apps and close all running programs I see nothing running except services and it raises as high as 600 mb with 0 apps open and nothing running except a live background and the task manager. My iphone never had a memory leak, how do I fix this? 600 mb to do nothing is a bit excessive.
As a software developer im really confused as how Google tricked everyone that android was good. Perhaps Im just uninformed and that is why I am here. I am wondering why there would be all these problems right out of the box on an item that is what 4th 5th generation? These are problems that shouldnt be as frequent in 1st and 2nd generations. Any help would be wonderful thank you.
1. this question has been asked a million times. In short, the Android OS handles memory much different than you'd expect. An app will appear as running after you close it but it may not be. Android just keeps that memory allocated to that app in case you need to use it again. But if the OS needs that memory for something else, it will release it from that app and use it for something else.
2. what apps FC on you?
3. i'll leave this for someone else to explain because I dont use the browser much so I dont have much experience with that.
4. this goes along with my answer for #1. Android OS likes to have its memory allocated but it doesnt mean those apps are running.
I might be a little off on my explanation so I'll leave it to the experts to clarify but i'm pretty sure i'm fairly accurate.
1/4 - Not deficiencies, Android is designed that way. If an app is resident in memory, it is more readily accessible. Some badly written apps DO more than just sit there in the task list - but most are OK. Sitting in memory is not bad - holding a wakelock or showing up in your battery usage is.
2 - No clue - not having this problem here. I haven't seen an FC in a few weeks, and the last one was my own fault. What apps?
3) This depends on the app. However, usually the browser returns to wherever I last was when I use it. In fact I wish it were easier to "go home"...
3) Matter of using the right button. Close the app with the home button, and restart it where it left off. Back out of the app with the back button, and start over.
List off apps that FC on me Both stock and Serenity 8:
Alarm Clock Plus
Chase
email
Gmail
hootsuite
maps
market
netflix
qik
web
Also no matter how I work the web 60% of the time I start back at my home page.
Lastly to do anything on android it seems like a process, just to switch from one app to another I have to do this, then that, then this, now im on my other app... Iphones multitasking is button click im there. Is there a multitasking app that works kinda like iphones? I really like the tray that holds ALL my open apps. Im trying hard to like this phone and android but being able to customize and have widgets just does not seem like it is worth it. Unless there are some really big secrets im missing.
Thank you all for the answers as well!
i really dont know what to tell you about the FC's because none of those FC on me ... whether I was stock or not. That just doesnt sound right. If you're stock, it shouldn't be FC'ing at all. I can understand if you're rooted and running S8 or some other ROM. Maybe something happened during the flash but stock should be fine.
I'm also trying out the browser on my phone and if I load a random website, go home, open another app and go back to the browser, its still on the last page I viewed.
DKS1282 said:
List off apps that FC on me Both stock and Serenity 8:
Alarm Clock Plus
Chase
email
Gmail
hootsuite
maps
market
netflix
qik
web
Also no matter how I work the web 60% of the time I start back at my home page.
Lastly to do anything on android it seems like a process, just to switch from one app to another I have to do this, then that, then this, now im on my other app... Iphones multitasking is button click im there. Is there a multitasking app that works kinda like iphones? I really like the tray that holds ALL my open apps. Im trying hard to like this phone and android but being able to customize and have widgets just does not seem like it is worth it. Unless there are some really big secrets im missing.
Thank you all for the answers as well!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you're swithing from app to app, and want to do it more quickly, hold the home button for a few seconds (pretty much anywhere, no need to go 'home' first). It will open up a list of the last 6 apps you've used. Pretty sure from the point you left off.
holding the home button does work pretty well, although sometimes it does not have the last couple apps I was using, mainly Go SMS pro. I am currently running S8 thought it was stable, guess i'll reflash and give this another go for a week, if not then its return to the IP and trade this back for the 4s. Thanks for the help!
Any suggestion on what rom to flash to?
Having THAT many apps FC on you is usually a sign that you did one of two things:
1) Forgot to wipe data/factory reset when installing a new ROM
2) Performed an improper Titanium Backup restore - restoring more than just "MISSING apps and data"
Chase
email
Gmail
maps
market
netflix
web
I'm running Serendipity 8.1 and do not have any problems with these apps from your list. You may need to re-flash.
Edit: what Entropy said.
DKS1282 said:
holding the home button does work pretty well, although sometimes it does not have the last couple apps I was using, mainly Go SMS pro. I am currently running S8 thought it was stable, guess i'll reflash and give this another go for a week, if not then its return to the IP and trade this back for the 4s. Thanks for the help!
Any suggestion on what rom to flash to?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
any of them are good but I personally use UnNamed. You really should wipe your phone first. Thats probably why you have so many FC's. When you flash a new rom, make sure you do NOT restore system apps via Titanium Backup (if thats what you use).
Entropy512 said:
Having THAT many apps FC on you is usually a sign that you did one of two things:
1) Forgot to wipe data/factory reset when installing a new ROM
2) Performed an improper Titanium Backup restore - restoring more than just "MISSING apps and data"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think thats exactly what happened because having that many FC's is not normal .
DKS1282 said:
List off apps that FC on me Both stock and Serenity 8:
Alarm Clock Plus
Chase
email
Gmail
hootsuite
maps
market
netflix
qik
web
Also no matter how I work the web 60% of the time I start back at my home page.
Lastly to do anything on android it seems like a process, just to switch from one app to another I have to do this, then that, then this, now im on my other app... Iphones multitasking is button click im there. Is there a multitasking app that works kinda like iphones? I really like the tray that holds ALL my open apps. Im trying hard to like this phone and android but being able to customize and have widgets just does not seem like it is worth it. Unless there are some really big secrets im missing.
Thank you all for the answers as well!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To switch between running apps all you have to do is long press the home button - one press to see the last six open apps and your there.
Having the browser return to the home page every time just means you don't know what you are doing.
Being concerned about what is being held in ram its also a sign you don't know what you are doing. The memory chip where the ram resides, where you see a list of apps being held has to remain powered on all the time. Whether it is holding 250 MB of data, 500 MB of data or just 10 MB of data it will still be drawing the same amount of power. And just because an apps data is being held in ram does not necessarily mean it is running. Top see what us running you need to check cpu usage.
The only time to concerned about ram is if more than 85% is being used then you would start having problems. But this does not happen on our phones, and only would happen if you had something causing a major memory leak.
All of your force closes are related to you or your particular phone. I have maybe five fc's in a month and three of those happened while I was running cm7.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using XDA App
Lot of user error here. I'm on the stock ROM with root.
Switch apps quickly by holding home.
If you use the back button to exit an app then you truly are exiting the app. Use home if you want it to start running.
Don't worry about ram usage. This device has 1GB and Android manages it very well without you ever having to worry.
I never have force closes unless it's the developers issue. If you're running from backed up apps then you can expect to have FCs. Install from fresh if you try a new ROM.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using XDA App
I think the main reason the op is having his browser reset most of the time is because the op is using some kind if task killer. This task killer is also probably the cause of a significant portion of the fc's being experienced.
There should be a forum rule against people who run task killers then complain about fc's, laggy apps, and problems with multitasking.
I mean it should be obvious running a "task killer" on a device designed specifically to multitask - it is so silly. Look at the two phrases side by side "task killer" "multitasking device" - can you see what I mean.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using XDA App
dayv said:
To switch between running apps all you have to do is long press the home button - one press to see the last six open apps and your there.
Having the browser return to the home page every time just means you don't know what you are doing.
Being concerned about what is being held in ram its also a sign you don't know what you are doing. The memory chip where the ram resides, where you see a list of apps being held has to remain powered on all the time. Whether it is holding 250 MB of data, 500 MB of data or just 10 MB of data it will still be drawing the same amount of power. And just because an apps data is being held in ram does not necessarily mean it is running. Top see what us running you need to check cpu usage.
The only time to concerned about ram is if more than 85% is being used then you would start having problems. But this does not happen on our phones, and only would happen if you had something causing a major memory leak.
All of your force closes are related to you or your particular phone. I have maybe five fc's in a month and three of those happened while I was running cm7.
Just because you don't know how to use a device does not make the device a general fail. Let's put the blame where it belongs, on the guy who has no understanding on what is going on with the processes in the device and drawing conclusions on based on an obviously ignorant perception those observations.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have upgraded to the Galaxy S2 from the Iphone 3gs. The long pressing of home button to bring up apps is something I did not know. Is there a thread somewhere to get this kind of information. Very helpful, thanks
Jim
jmj12us said:
I have upgraded to the Galaxy S2 from the Iphone 3gs. The long pressing of home button to bring up apps is something I did not know. Is there a thread somewhere to get this kind of information. Very helpful, thanks
Jim
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not that I know of. There are little tricks like that and a good majority of people would never know of them I'm afraid.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using XDA App
jmj12us said:
I have upgraded to the Galaxy S2 from the Iphone 3gs. The long pressing of home button to bring up apps is something I did not know. Is there a thread somewhere to get this kind of information. Very helpful, thanks
Jim
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Samsung has a tips and tricks page specifically for the AT&T GS2 that may show you some things you didn't know. One thing I didn't know was that you can take a screenshot with stock by pressing the power button and the home button at the same time. I also didn't know you can access the clipboard to show everything you "copied" from text fields.
http://www.samsung.com/us/article/tips--tricks-galaxy-s-ii-at-t-
As far as the OP's issues, I have all of those apps except for chase and hootsuite installed on stock and I don't FC at all. For the browser concerns, you may just be opening a new window each time you run the browser from the app icon. Try zooming all the way out of the page and then pinch to zoom out once more and it will show you the windows you have open, or you can press the menu key and select windows. The icon for "windows" in the menu will have a number on it if you have more than one open.
Entropy512 said:
Having THAT many apps FC on you is usually a sign that you did one of two things:
1) Forgot to wipe data/factory reset when installing a new ROM
2) Performed an improper Titanium Backup restore - restoring more than just "MISSING apps and data"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Number 1... I didnt do that. I didnt think I had to off of a stock rom, but your right, I should have.
Thread cleaned... Please do not make me have to do so again. This forum is for friendly discussion.. Lets keep it that way.
edit --- I see Devine madcat is pushing back to topic
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using XDA App
Hello
First of all, Sorry for my bad english
I am using Galaxy S Plus i9001 (has 1.4 ghz proceesor and 512 mb ram)
and i wonder why Android cant multitask ?
If someone calls me while downloading some files from internet, Opera is killed and opening from beginning.. And my downloads are being corrupted..
Same for messaging too..
Its really annoying even Symbian could multitask with 680 mhz + 256 mb ram on my c6-01...
Thanks.
Strange isn't it? My old Omnia with WM6.1 was better at multitasking than Android!
Its not android blame...
The problem is in the application, on this case Opera.
nah, had it happen to me also, almost all the time.
It does this with almost every application, except those that elevate their priority themselves (i.e Titanium Backup, Better Terminal Emulator, and somehow the Android Market as well -ever noticed how the auto-updates go on even though you've started 3 or 4 other apps in the meantime ?).
The problem lies more in the way Android is configured by default for RAM-management. Using a memory optimizer like the V6 supercharger helps a lot, just use the "multitasking" setting, and it'll be much better you'll see
And if you're still not happy, just use the "bulletproof" script on the app you want to stay open, it'll be almost unkillable by the process manager then..
Sorry to restart very old thread, but this concerns me a lot.
"The problem lies more in the way Android is configured by default for RAM-management. Using a memory optimizer like the V6 supercharger helps a lot, just use the "multitasking" setting, and it'll be much better you'll see
And if you're still not happy, just use the "bulletproof" script on the app you want to stay open, it'll be almost unkillable by the process manager then.. "
I did not understand what is V6 supercharger, and I didnt understand "bulletproof" script either
Second of all in no way Android has "true multitasking", true multitasking is about giving control to users as to which apps he wants to stay open and which to be closed. Android however prefers to close my browser app(may be because it has holds more memory), and keeps apps running such as facebook which I don't use neither do I intend to use any day,
however its the closure of running app bothers me a lot, specially as it causes browsers to reload data.
There is android blog on "Multitasking the Android Way" by Dianne Hackborn.
If you read that blog it mentions how multitasking occurs on android, it brutally kills app when it needs memory, and the reasons they have posted are rather correct,
But this poses another question, symbian S60 had true multitasking, I ran more than 15 apps on my most basic symbian device and it took all that without sweat.
How did symbian handle this memory issue??
Sanditech said:
Sorry to restart very old thread, but this concerns me a lot.
But this poses another question, symbian S60 had true multitasking, I ran more than 15 apps on my most basic symbian device and it took all that without sweat.
How did symbian handle this memory issue??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
probably because symbian os doesnt eat ram as much as our stock rom? aosp roms like cm and miui give me superb multitasking..
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=991276
here you go mate, everything's explained on the page (you'll have to read it thoroughly though, it's important to understand what you're about to modify)
I've noticed that on my Nokia Lumia 800, you can not exit programs or close them down, its seems i can only press back or the windows button.
Are these now running in the background and causing my battery to suffer?
If so are there any sort of task killers or enders.
Also 2 other issues i've noticed are that when i ring people my phone just goes black and does not give me a key pad any sort of button to end the call.
Also when i play my music, it does not have a stop button just a pause, and when i exit it just starts playing from paused. Only time i can get it to stop is when i turn my phone off/on.
Any feedback will help greatly.
WP7 has no real multitasking. So even if an app is "open" in the background it is paused and won't do anyting. Except spotify and the music app that can run in the background.
Task killers is an evil thing on Android and so would be on windows phones. They are not needed as the system handles these things better themselves.
If the screen is black after a call, press power button and it will light up. This is a bit buggy, to end calls at times. Usually I just wait till the other person ends the call so it quits automatically.
This isn't android. There's no need to worry about apps once you exit them, or worry about the music player. If it isn't playing then it isn't doing anything.
That's one of the joys of iOS and WP7. You do what you need to do and never have to worry about what the phone is doing. What's the point of a phone where you need to constantly worry about task killing?
Boburto said:
This isn't android. There's no need to worry about apps once you exit them, or worry about the music player. If it isn't playing then it isn't doing anything.
That's one of the joys of iOS and WP7. You do what you need to do and never have to worry about what the phone is doing. What's the point of a phone where you need to constantly worry about task killing?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So true. I hated that about Android. Most tasks that kept starting were things I never wanted to use. Had to use Titanium Backup to freeze them. What a pain.
anseio said:
So true. I hated that about Android. Most tasks that kept starting were things I never wanted to use. Had to use Titanium Backup to freeze them. What a pain.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, but when I had Android, all I can say is Thank God for Titanium Backup! I wish we had the equivalent on WP7 - would be nice for the few times I've had to reset my Lumia..
apollo15rover said:
Yeah, but when I had Android, all I can say is Thank God for Titanium Backup! I wish we had the equivalent on WP7 - would be nice for the few times I've had to reset my Lumia..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is a backup for windows phone. It's in the WP7 section of this forum. I've used it before. It backs up the entire phone. (i'd have to search for it)
Yes. Wp7 is in serious needs of a real backup/restore solution.
apollo15rover said:
Yeah, but when I had Android, all I can say is Thank God for Titanium Backup! I wish we had the equivalent on WP7 - would be nice for the few times I've had to reset my Lumia..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my Sexy Cyan Lumia 800 using XDA WP7 App
Had an opportunity to encounter the main guy behind the Windowsphonehacker. I think his id is Jaxbot or something liek that.
He said that Chevron will open up shortly and that we could all unlock our devices from there. Now that he got a developer device from Nokia he is also doing hacks with it. The latest being global orientation lock.
I am just waiting for Chevron to start off again.
Hey, where here everyone hating android....
After android 2.2, there is no need of task killers..
I think you guys haven't tried android 2.2 or 2.3
Sent from my Optimus 2X using XDA App
nexus2515 said:
Hey, where here everyone hating android....
After android 2.2, there is no need of task killers..
I think you guys haven't tried android 2.2 or 2.3
Sent from my Optimus 2X using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Coming from 2.3.5 and 2.3.7 I can say that a task killer was necessary. Processes opened up and did whatever they wanted whenever. I had to freeze a few things in Titanium Backup and then set a whole bunch others to autokill. It's annoying that apps can up and do whatever they want whenever they want on the Android OS.
nexus2515 said:
Hey, where here everyone hating android....
After android 2.2, there is no need of task killers..
I think you guys haven't tried android 2.2 or 2.3
Sent from my Optimus 2X using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's just not true. The resource management on Android is problematic. The problem isn't that apps I'm using and switching between are still using resources in the background. If I opened an app and I expect it to still do something, that's fine. The problem is that after an hour or two, if you check any task manager, a ton of apps are listed as running.
You can say these apps aren't really running all the time and are frozen, but they were running at some point without me starting them. These apps do take resources, drain battery and make the phone's performance crap. Everytime I would kill those tasks, the phone would be snappy again. Setting a task killer to automatically kill these apps once an hour, increases battery life.
on ios and windows phone, only one app is really running and the others are suspended. There are a few exceptions (like music players)
on windows phone, you can completely control which apps are allowed to work in the background and start on their own and the OS controls when these apps can run to perform some operation and devs are very limited in what they can do. so apps don't start on their own without the user being able to control that and apps don't stay running in the background forever without the user ever knowing about it
nexus2515 said:
Hey, where here everyone hating android....
After android 2.2, there is no need of task killers..
I think you guys haven't tried android 2.2 or 2.3
Sent from my Optimus 2X using XDA App
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are you kidding me????
once i had adds on my taskbar due to some auto start app.
adempozhari said:
are you kidding me????
once i had adds on my taskbar due to some auto start app.
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I'm sorry, but if you actually use an app that uses AirPush ads, it's your fault.
Never ever support developers that use this useless piece of crap ad service.
I happen to know a thing or two about mobile development (not only Android but also iOS and WP7) and they are all designed to not have to care about task killers.
Also, if someone really has to bash an OS because of problem X or Y, take a look at how the system works and realize that everything is perfect (for example, Android keeps the VM running to make the app start up faster, but as long as no code has to run through, the VM is just sitting there. Why have all the RAM if you're not using it?)
Please guys, start to read things up if you have no clue. Nobody should have to care about task killers at all and that's what ALL of our current mobile OS's are designed for. Start to develop apps for every single OS if you really want to brag about restrictions and design problems.
beidl said:
I'm sorry, but if you actually use an app that uses AirPush ads, it's your fault.
Never ever support developers that use this useless piece of crap ad service.
I happen to know a thing or two about mobile development (not only Android but also iOS and WP7) and they are all designed to not have to care about task killers.
Also, if someone really has to bash an OS because of problem X or Y, take a look at how the system works and realize that everything is perfect (for example, Android keeps the VM running to make the app start up faster, but as long as no code has to run through, the VM is just sitting there. Why have all the RAM if you're not using it?)
Please guys, start to read things up if you have no clue. Nobody should have to care about task killers at all and that's what ALL of our current mobile OS's are designed for. Start to develop apps for every single OS if you really want to brag about restrictions and design problems.
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Ok, this is great and all that no one should have to think about task killers, but the obvious truth is that Android allows things to run whenever they damn well want to.
For example: Google Books likes to run in the background. Why? I don't use it. I don't want it. Yet, it still does what it wants to.
anseio said:
Ok, this is great and all that no one should have to think about task killers, but the obvious truth is that Android allows things to run whenever they damn well want to.
For example: Google Books likes to run in the background. Why? I don't use it. I don't want it. Yet, it still does what it wants to.
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The virtual machine is just sitting there, doing nothing. It helps speed up restarting the app in case it has been wiped off the memory. The VM still is in RAM, but no execution is happening as long as you start the app up again. Also, it might be itting in the background, doing nothing, waiting for the Google services to trigger a sync, in case a new book has been added to your library. If you have sync disabled in your account settings then it's just sitting there doing absolutely nothing and will finally be just wiped off the memory itself in case an app needs the resources.
With task killers, you kill a lot of apps that are flagged as "Don't kill me, I'll reapper as soon as possible", causing more trouble because the whole VM process has to be restarted, the app has to be reinitiated, code has to be reexecuted etc. That's the perfect way of working against how an operating system works.
To add a point,
it's important to note that there are 2 different things being discussed here:
1) Cached tasks that are suppose to not cause any lag, but do. We know this because we see immediate lag fixes after killing cached tasks but not services.
2) Services that are unnecessary, such as Google Books and Fring.
I think there's a reason why Apple chooses to disallow multitasking even if it's a quintessential as playing a tune while browsing on the iPad in 2012 - it may be a crude solution but it's simple.
Personally I'm tied to a battery hog app due to social means, so I'm looking for an automated service killer for Fring.
There is also the 3rd accusation
3) that the service 'Android OS' in ICS 4.0.3 causes drain in some circumstances for some people who have installed apps but also ruled out (1) & (2)... possibly wake lock related even though there should be no wake locks.
People rarely disagree on things enough to argue unless they're actually talking about different things without noticing. So be sure to clarify which of these 3 wakelock related things you are talking about to keep everyone sweet.
The best of course is to blank everything and start again for testing but failing that use a wake lock measuring app. Can anyone recommend one for me?
-j
Hi, I have a 4.2 and my RAM always gets used up. I try my best to close background programs, but yet I still have barely any left. I always have to force restart the player. This problem started happening out of nowhere. I didn't install any apps or anything either... I've been using ADW Launcher EX and ics keyboard for a while. Any help?
Sent from my YP-GI1 using xda app-developers app
You could try Go launcher EX. That seems to manage my RAM better. Also, if you are not already doing so, turn off your Wi-Fi when you are not using it or it is not around. Also once you turn off your Wi-Fi, try rebooting, that usually will stop any apps that stay open and require Wi-Fi in various ways that somehow are still active. You could also try a custom kernel, I use Terrasilent and my 64 emulator run smoother and I seem to have more RAM. On top of that to you could try a custom governor, which controls your RAM. Just stay away from task manager apps, they add to the problem instead of solving it.
Sent from my YP-G1 using xda app-developers app
actually, its not bad that your ram is filled up.
Consider this -- Jerry did/said/thought something that made his wife mad (yes, she can read my thoughts), so he bought flowers from the 7-Eleven and wants to make a mix CD of her favorite Rod Stewart songs to give to her and get his ass out of the doghouse. It could happen. Consider which is more efficient:
Burn 20 songs to a CD, give to wife, and smile while she plays it.
Burn one song to a CD, let her listen, then erase it and burn the next song.
That's what your phone (or tablet) has to consider. Loading Google Talk to RAM once, and having it there to open almost instantly is far better than loading it each and every time you want to use it. So why kill it off? It's not like you'll never use it again, and nothing else is going to use that RAM while it's sitting empty -- at that point, it's wasted space. You will also use a lot more battery power re-opening Talk every time you get a message than you will by having the zeros held as ones on your RAM. The folks who built Android really did know what they were doing when it comes to memory management. After the parameters are set, and the amount the OS can use to "swap" for it's normal operations, the rest is simply wasted if we're not using it. What is cached in RAM is just sitting there, not using any CPU cycles, but ready to get pushed to the front and appear on the screen as fast as it can, and not use the extra battery needed to start it up from disk again.
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http://www.androidcentral.com/ram-what-it-how-its-used-and-why-you-shouldnt-care
Thanks! I'm just waiting for software to be developed so I can get a faster device.
Sent from my YP-GI1 using xda app-developers app
I'd like to know what everyone is looking forward to the most with the next version of android.
My list:
-Multi-window (or at the very least a 50/50 side by side. I would love to be able to watch Netflix and browse simultaneously)
-Completely fix chrome
-fully integrated support for 3rd party application synchronization between devices (with real time data snycing)
-centralized gaming hub for high scores/achievements ect. (possibly integrated within Google+)
-support for optional cloud application data hosting (for those with not much local storage available)
-native theme support
-native NTFS support
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk 2
Nobody knows what will be in Key Lime Pie, or even if it will definitely be coming at IO, so this is a bit nonsensical to answer -- but still.
If I could request *one* feature for Key Lime Pie, it would be vastly-improved stability. No more random, total lockups of the user interface. No more sleep of death. No more random, spontaneous reboots. No more opening a web page and suddenly your whole browser vanishes with no error or warning of any kind. No more other apps doing the exact same thing.
In short, a properly stable operating system.
Oh, and proper multitasking where programs don't spontaneously close without warning when they're in the background, where programs don't stay running after you swipe them away from the recent apps list, and where they don't remain in the recent apps list after you exit them by actually shutting the app down. That'd be nice, too.
I couldn't care less about side-by-side display of apps; on my phone I would never use it because the screen is too small, and on my tablet I would never use it because that's what multitasking and switching between apps is for.
[quote="knoxploration"[/quote]No more random, total lockups of the user interface. No more sleep of death. No more random, spontaneous reboots. No more opening a web page and suddenly your whole browser vanishes with no error or warning of any kind. No more other apps doing the exact same thing.[/quote] I would agree that we'd all like to have our OS 100% rock-solid stable, and that this is a goal to strive for, but that sounds a bit odd...the way you're describing it, these things are quite frequent for you. I rarely see issues like this on my Galaxy Nexus running 4.2.2; I recently had to do a system wipe due to some corruption that caused super battery drain and issues with text messaging, but that's unrelated to this, really. The hardware on the Nexus 4 and Nexus 10 runs circles around my GNexus, too - is it really that bad? [quote="knoxploration"[/quote]Oh, and proper multitasking where programs don't spontaneously close without warning when they're in the background[/quote] That is automatic task killing used to keep RAM reserves in check and keep the system running smoothly at all times. The Nexus 4 and 10 have a LOT better experience with multitasking than older devices, with their 2GB of RAM. There's a reason Google upped the ante in that area! Android needs those resources to operate efficiently and properly. [quote="knoxploration"[/quote] where programs don't stay running after you swipe them away from the recent apps list[/quote] This one puzzles me...they don't stay running unless its a background process, like TextPlus or Gmail push notifications. And you can turn those off, if you want to. Some even do stop - if you swipe away Google Music, the background music stops playing as well.
As for side by side display, I have to agree with you. Not TOO meaningful on a tablet, definitely not a 4.6" phone. It would be a nice option, though.
By the way, nice topic HarmonyFlame! I love these kinds of posts. Theres great, positive discussion on them, usually.
CWalkop said:
I would agree that we'd all like to have our OS 100% rock-solid stable, and that this is a goal to strive for, but that sounds a bit odd...the way you're describing it, these things are quite frequent for you.
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They are very, very frequent issues on my Asus Eee Pad Transformer TF101 (I own two, both do it.) It's an issue even on a stock, unrooted tablet without a single app installed, and has been ever since the Ice Cream Sandwich update. (It was fine on Honeycomb.)
I've not bought the Nexus 10 yet, but have already been warned it suffers the same issues.
It is much rarer on my phones than on tablets; they do it, but very rarely. The tablets do it on a daily basis.
CWalkop said:
That is automatic task killing used to keep RAM reserves in check and keep the system running smoothly at all times. The Nexus 4 and 10 have a LOT better experience with multitasking than older devices, with their 2GB of RAM. There's a reason Google upped the ante in that area! Android needs those resources to operate efficiently and properly.
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I know why it is there. I also know it is poor design. I know which of the apps running in the background are important to me; the tablet doesn't. A good design would simply warn me that I was running low on memory, and let me choose which apps to kill, rather than killing something I potentially need. I have lost data to this; it is bad behavior.
CWalkop said:
This one puzzles me...they don't stay running unless its a background process, like TextPlus or Gmail push notifications. And you can turn those off, if you want to. Some even do stop - if you swipe away Google Music, the background music stops playing as well.
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I can't provide examples as I don't remember which programs do it, but I have come across multiple apps that definitely stay open (with no notifications present, and these aren't background processes) when you swipe them away. Go to apps and force stop, the program will actually exit. Swipe it away from the recent apps list, and it will not.
knoxploration said:
They are very, very frequent issues on my Asus Eee Pad Transformer TF101 (I own two, both do it.) It's an issue even on a stock, unrooted tablet without a single app installed, and has been ever since the Ice Cream Sandwich update. (It was fine on Honeycomb.)
I've not bought the Nexus 10 yet, but have already been warned it suffers the same issues.
It is much rarer on my phones than on tablets; they do it, but very rarely. The tablets do it on a daily basis.
I know why it is there. I also know it is poor design. I know which of the apps running in the background are important to me; the tablet doesn't. A good design would simply warn me that I was running low on memory, and let me choose which apps to kill, rather than killing something I potentially need. I have lost data to this; it is bad behavior.
I can't provide examples as I don't remember which programs do it, but I have come across multiple apps that definitely stay open (with no notifications present, and these aren't background processes) when you swipe them away. Go to apps and force stop, the program will actually exit. Swipe it away from the recent apps list, and it will not.
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So you don't own a nexus 10 but you're making comparison to the tf101? Which is a very old tablet! It doesn't matter to the system what apps are important to you, the system is going to decide what should be closed when is needed, specially if you let it sit in the back too long, why is Google going to worry about what app the user would like to keep open while is in the background, with how many apps we have today, that's for the end used to worry about, if you don't want to lose data just don't push that important task to the background until you're done with it. I personally think that it handles the task of killing apps when needed quite well, it will never be perfect for everyone but it sure is as good as it gets right now. If you're having issues closing apps, by having to force close from the manage apps menu then you need to see what app is causing this, because that's not normal..
I know there's always room for improvement , but that's why I run rooted and custom, that way you get the best available and not just what Google wants you to have.
My 2¢
Full ui hdmi scaling
what multitasking and switching between apps is for.
The one thing I should love to see again is for them to somehow have the OS know that if you're running it on a tab, you get tab nav bar, and not like a phone/phablet, like in previous versions, or let the user decide which one to use, like our custom ROMs that have them, not like AOKP though, it still looks funky, they're too separate., I'm saying this but when it comes out I'll run it for a little bit, and be on the first custom rom after a dev cooks one up.
RoloRacer on RootBox Nexus 10
roloracer said:
So you don't own a nexus 10 but you're making comparison to the tf101? Which is a very old tablet! It doesn't matter to the system what apps are important to you, the system is going to decide what should be closed when is needed, specially if you let it sit in the back too long, why is Google going to worry about what app the user would like to keep open while is in the background, with how many apps we have today, that's for the end used to worry about, if you don't want to lose data just don't push that important task to the background until you're done with it. I personally think that it handles the task of killing apps when needed quite well, it will never be perfect for everyone but it sure is as good as it gets right now. If you're having issues closing apps, by having to force close from the manage apps menu then you need to see what app is causing this, because that's not normal..
I know there's always room for improvement , but that's why I run rooted and custom, that way you get the best available and not just what Google wants you to have.
My 2¢
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I'm comparing to the TF101 running numerous Ice Cream Sandwich and Jelly Bean ROMs, including the stock Asus ROM, plus the experiences of others using the Nexus 10 and other Android tablets. We'll see soon enough though as I just got the Nexus 10 myself today...
And wow, if your opinion is that it is the user's fault rather than poor OS design, then thank goodness you aren't an OS designer. The OS is supposed to be seeing the user's needs, not vice versa. People don't buy tablets because they want to be slaves to them.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk HD
knoxploration said:
And wow, if your opinion is that it is the user's fault rather than poor OS design, then thank goodness you aren't an OS designer. The OS is supposed to be seeing the user's needs, not vice versa. People don't buy tablets because they want to be slaves to them.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk HD
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The OS doesn't care. If the RAM is getting full, and the OS needs the RAM in order to run something else, memory management will kill whatever it needs to in order to get enough RAM to run it. Regardless of the fact you, the user, use that app 4 times more than anything else currently in memory. The tablet is not learning your usage habits.
Sent from my Nexus 10
trickster2369 said:
The OS doesn't care. If the RAM is getting full, and the OS needs the RAM in order to run something else, memory management will kill whatever it needs to in order to get enough RAM to run it. Regardless of the fact you, the user, use that app 4 times more than anything else currently in memory. The tablet is not learning your usage habits.
Sent from my Nexus 10
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And that is precisely my point. The OS is dumb, and yet it forces its dumb decisions on the user. An intelligent OS would either learn which apps the user didn't want closed, provide a way to prioritize or prevent closing of certain apps or apps in certain states, or simply warn when the threshold nears and let the user decide what to close.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk HD
I'm not sure if I want that feature... But now that you mention it I'm actually surprised it is not there... What with google being the king of tracking usage habits and all
It seems simple enough to implement. Have the ability to "pin" apps you want kept alive in the apps list.
Edit: Clarification.
Sent from my VS910 4G using Tapatalk 2
Bait-Fish said:
It seems simple enough to implement. Have the ability to "pin" apps you want kept alive in the apps list.
Edit: Clarification.
Sent from my VS910 4G using Tapatalk 2
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I think it then becomes a tradeoff in terms of convenience. For example it might be more convenient if apps are forced to remain open if that is what the user wants, but at the same time it means that if you have a list of apps that the OS cannot close on it's own accord, and you suddenly decide you want to use an app that requires more resources than are available, due to them being used up with these pinned apps, does the user then have to manually go and close their apps down in order for the new app to run correctly?
hughlle said:
I think it then becomes a tradeoff in terms of convenience. For example it might be more convenient if apps are forced to remain open if that is what the user wants, but at the same time it means that if you have a list of apps that the OS cannot close on it's own accord, and you suddenly decide you want to use an app that requires more resources than are available, due to them being used up with these pinned apps, does the user then have to manually go and close their apps down in order for the new app to run correctly?
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That is infinitely preferable to the OS closing an app randomly and losing your data.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk HD
knoxploration said:
That is infinitely preferable to the OS closing an app randomly and losing your data.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk HD
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And therein lies the issue. Who to cater for? You think this preferable, i think it not. Google has to decide which market to target. I have no statistics, just an opinion, but i personally think that there are probably a lot more people buying phones and tablets who just want to press a button and have the app work. As a user, i personally do not come across many instances where i switch back to an app and find i've lost my data, i imagine this is more important and relevant for people using their tablets and phones for more serious work be it business or study etc. But for someone just wanting to get onto facebook, or take a photo, or play a game, which is in my mind, the majority of users, i think it would be preferable to them not to have to have to start killing apps so as to get their youtube video to play in a smooth fashion.
Maybe google could arrive at a compromise, or a DEV could somehow implement it either as default or as an option, but for now i think that it is as it is for the sake of the general market. Most users are casual users, maybe not even technically proficient, they just want it to work in as simple fashion as possible. Just look at roms as an example. Plenty of roms offer plenty of features that people claim they want or need, but the vast majority of users happily get by without these supposedly important additional functions.
knoxploration said:
I'm comparing to the TF101 running numerous Ice Cream Sandwich and Jelly Bean ROMs, including the stock Asus ROM, plus the experiences of others using the Nexus 10 and other Android tablets. We'll see soon enough though as I just got the Nexus 10 myself today...
And wow, if your opinion is that it is the user's fault rather than poor OS design, then thank goodness you aren't an OS designer. The OS is supposed to be seeing the user's needs, not vice versa. People don't buy tablets because they want to be slaves to them.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk HD
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But you're still comparing it to a tegra 2 , 1ghz processor , 1gig of ram tablet, apples and oranges.
And my opinion is coming from a person that has been into android since day one, still have my T-Mobile G1, among other devices, and the matter of fact is that the OS has never cared about apps open and what apps the user wanted to keep open, before we had to use app killers because they would stay open and eat up all the ram, yes this tablet has issues and is not perfect, but is still the best as of now. Apparently I hit a nerve with my comment, it wasn't my intention. I agree with you that the OS should see what apps get more use and give them some sort of priority over others to prevent them from being killed but it doesn't work that way as of now I'm afraid. Maybe that will be a new feature in key lime pie, intelligent memory management.
RoloRacer on RootBox Nexus 10
knoxploration said:
That is infinitely preferable to the OS closing an app randomly and losing your data.
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Memory management is tricky. Physically memory can get fragmented so despite overall memory being available, what is there is in chunks too small to be actually use. There is nothing random about which app Android chooses to close when there is not enough memory. "Least used" logic would be just one example of how an app is choosen. Other factors are also taken into account.
A major feature of Andorid is memory management which includes that when an app starts it registers a "close routine". Android calls that routine when it needs more memory and has selected that app for closure. The routine lets the app gracefully save any user data before it is closed. Only poorly coded apps would loose values user data when signalled that it is being shutdown by the OS.
3DSammy said:
Only poorly coded apps would loose values user data when signalled that it is being shutdown by the OS.
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So Google's stock browser and Chrome are both poorly-coded, then?
Those are the two apps that lose me data -- or simply force me to have to log back into websites over and over -- the most often due to this poor design.
knoxploration said:
So Google's stock browser and Chrome are both poorly-coded, then?
Those are the two apps that lose me data -- or simply force me to have to log back into websites over and over -- the most often due to this poor design.
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Have you not seen the number of complaints about chromes instability and such, it certainly seems that it is indeed poorly coded.
That said, i have never experienced this with chrome on my N10 at all. The only website that i find i am often asked to log back into is XDA, every other site is just fine.