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Hey Guys, just came across this article and thought it was a good read. Do you think Android will partner with Asus to make their own brand of tablets...will it be better for us as Android buyers in the future if Android had more control by being the hardware as well as software maker. or do you feel like this is turning them into Apple-lite
http://www.androidauthority.com/will-google-abandon-android-71483/
Seems like Android Authority is a bit desperate for clicks. That is all I got from it.
detta123 said:
Seems like Android Authority is a bit desperate for clicks. That is all I got from it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah basically..lol.
they taking the whole Asus Manufacturing Google Nexus tablet and spinning it into some crazy apocalyptic Android dying story. Android will be fine. Android growth has really actually just begun. we haven't seen nothing yet. Google needs a nexus tablet to instill confidence and optimism in Androids future. It can almost be guareenteed to attract more developers to android ecosystem. If android was dying, I'd seriously doubt they'd be making a tablet with Asus, restructured Google Play Store, and Making Google store purchases possible to be made online by anyone. All these recent moves Google has made is pointing to something big coming up.
Android for LIFE!
All of my current and future devices will continue to be android.
It is just way too much fun, IOS sucks.
If android goes away, I will go back to laptops.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
I dont even want to read that article Android brings profit and is a huge thing worldwide. Why would you abandon something like this? Of course its not Google's biggest income generator but it has so much potential and it serves as competition to Apple.
Google deciding to do some hardware manufacturing? I really like that. They probably learn from it and be able to improve the software/hardware.
There is one thing though they could do to android imho. I like some of the 3rd party GUI's that come with android devices. For example HTC Sense. They add alot of nice widgets and great looking uniform base apps.
BUT. At the price of getting important updates like ICS half a year later? No... No.
For me there are 2 ways those companies could handle the situation. Make custom UI's optional. Let people use vanilla Android if they want fast upgrades and let them switch to custom UI's once their done. Or just open all the bootloaders and release all kernel source and stuff to XDA so people can make their own roms and updates (which usually are better anyway...).
Apart from that Android is just totally great.
clouds5 said:
For me there are 2 ways those companies could handle the situation. Make custom UI's optional. Let people use vanilla Android if they want fast upgrades and let them switch to custom UI's once their done. Or just open all the bootloaders and release all kernel source and stuff to XDA so people can make their own roms and updates (which usually are better anyway...).
Apart from that Android is just totally great.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually Google is already consdidering this. read several articles on it. it's a great idea bit one catch, Phone carriers would hate it. those companies add those GUI to devices to differentiate themselves from other similar devices. I'd rather have vanilla android experience and not have bloat ui on top of it. A GUI on top of vanilla android will never be faster out the box than a plain vanilla experience. one suggestion was to make the various companies GUI removable if the user chooses. they could use that companies GUI or go vanilla route or use one of the many launchers available on android. Usually a company GUI will be more integrated and stable than one from marketplace.
Yeah i've read about that too. i dont think custom UIs need to go away. Sometimes they're great. And with tegra3 phones coming out i guess the performance wont be such an issue anymore.
But i'd love to see some change in that situation. I think updates shouldnt be delayed more than 1 month. Not like half a year.
The article is the usual blog filler; title is admittedly clickbait. Then again, most news & blog sites have SEO'ed titles to varying degree. Yellow journalism used to be on the fringe. Now, it's the way to get clicks. That's the cost of "free" content.
Idle gossip aside, Google's strategy for tablet adoption has not worked. It will need to do something, and soon. We should know by Google I/O in June, if not earlier.
IMO, the rumors presently circulating--direct-sale of cheapo tablet & online store--aren't enough. The problems are more fundamental, and are myriad. To me, what's discouraging aren't the obstacles, but that I haven't seen any signal from Google leadership that they recognize the scope of the obstacles.
At any rate, Android won't suffer the fate of WebOS. It's entrenched on phones, and its open-source distribution will allow it to live on as a "hobbyist" OS, if nothing else.
Things move pretty fast in this mobile market, so we won't have long to wait, one way or the other.
Trolling done wrong.
A terrible excuse for either op-ed or journalism. sigh.
Seems this kid who wrote the article didn't get the point of android....
It amplifies all the Google services. It gives Google a extremely huge platform to present their products... it generates Google accounts which can be used for the almost infinite range of Google products. It helps to spread G+ and not to mention Google ad-words..
There is no essential need for a strong Google Phone brand... When you use it the normal way you pretty soon notice that Android is a Google product... you are asked to create a Google account, you have a ton of Google services pre-installed etc. .
Android could be a losing deal and it would still be worth the effort. Just because it spreads Google stuff. The power you have when 50% of the smart-phones world wide run with your is is enormous... Google does not have to worry too much about branding as long as the providers don't remove the Google-Products from it...
I see it like a commenter in the article, Google Tablet to fight the Kindle Fire... because it breaks the Google-branding... not so funny for Google...
>[Android] amplifies all the Google services. It gives Google a extremely huge platform to present their products...There is no essential need for a strong Google Phone brand...Android could be a losing deal and it would still be worth the effort.
These are all true. But IMO it misses the forest for the trees, the forest in this case being the next computing form factor, ie the tablet being a successor rather than adjunct of laptops. That should be the goal, not just an extension to sell more wares.
To be the next "computer," the OS has to do more, akin to the range of functions on desktop OS'es. Android, like iOS, lacks basic underpinnings--things like built-in networking, printing, support for peripheral devices, apps interoperability, etc etc.
The shortcoming doesn't affect Apple, because iOS has achieved critical mass on phones and tablets. Its success engenders 3rd-party support to address any deficit faced.
The other aspect not oft mentioned is that a bona fide OS needs support. One takeaway from a quick scan through these and other (official) Android forums is that OS support is grossly inadequate. As much complaints as there are in this forum, Asus is actually one of the better vendors for support. Users of Acer, Toshiba, and others, have given up on support. And these are enthusiasts. Think of how worse it would be for normal users.
The writing is on the wall: HW vendors don't have the expertise to support the OS. Google needs to do it. But with its current distribution philosophy, ie making AOSP code public and let HW vendors do what they will, Google can't do that. For it to support its OS, Google will need to follow the Microsoft path.
Getting its hands dirty with its own hardware may be a start, assuming Google better supports its product. But customer support has never been in Google's DNA, so I have my doubt that things would improve soon.
Google bought Motorolla, why would they need to partner with ASUS?
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>Google bought Motorolla, why would they need to partner with ASUS?
Because Asus can make cheap tablets, eg the rumored $199 tab, and Moto can't. Secondly, because Google still needs to maintain some degree of impartiality. With declining vendor support (on tablets), it can ill afford to piss off the few remaining.
e.mote said:
>Google bought Motorolla, why would they need to partner with ASUS?
Because Asus can make cheap tablets, eg the rumored $199 tab, and Moto can't. Secondly, because Google still needs to maintain some degree of impartiality. With declining vendor support (on tablets), it can ill afford to piss off the few remaining.
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Click to collapse
Agreed, the Motorola Xoom, great as it was(I owned one), was simply overpriced.
I do believe that in order to be widely accepted as being better than Apple, Google needs to seriously focus on getting better developer support. You can release the best tablet in the world, but if you do not have developer support, people will continue to flock to IOS. Lower the price of tablets while maintaining good quality standards, and gain developer support=win for Android
e.mote said:
>[Android] amplifies all the Google services. It gives Google a extremely huge platform to present their products...There is no essential need for a strong Google Phone brand...Android could be a losing deal and it would still be worth the effort.
These are all true. But IMO it misses the forest for the trees, the forest in this case being the next computing form factor, ie the tablet being a successor rather than adjunct of laptops. That should be the goal, not just an extension to sell more wares.
To be the next "computer," the OS has to do more, akin to the range of functions on desktop OS'es. Android, like iOS, lacks basic underpinnings--things like built-in networking, printing, support for peripheral devices, apps interoperability, etc etc.
The shortcoming doesn't affect Apple, because iOS has achieved critical mass on phones and tablets. Its success engenders 3rd-party support to address any deficit faced.
The other aspect not oft mentioned is that a bona fide OS needs support. One takeaway from a quick scan through these and other (official) Android forums is that OS support is grossly inadequate. As much complaints as there are in this forum, Asus is actually one of the better vendors for support. Users of Acer, Toshiba, and others, have given up on support. And these are enthusiasts. Think of how worse it would be for normal users.
The writing is on the wall: HW vendors don't have the expertise to support the OS. Google needs to do it. But with its current distribution philosophy, ie making AOSP code public and let HW vendors do what they will, Google can't do that. For it to support its OS, Google will need to follow the Microsoft path.
Getting its hands dirty with its own hardware may be a start, assuming Google better supports its product. But customer support has never been in Google's DNA, so I have my doubt that things would improve soon.
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Click to collapse
You make some interesting points, but I disagree that iOS is anywhere near being accepted as a PC replacement. In many important ways, Android is much farther along in this respect--access to the file system alone is one area. And, I think the idea that tablets will replace PCs is way overblown--having tried to use mine (even with the keyboard dock) as a replacement for my Windows notebook, I can testify that although some things are more convenient with tablets (like ebook reading, casual surfing, etc.), NOTHING is as efficient as with a "real" PC.
I could never do my job on any existing tablet, whether it's iOS or Android. I work with complex documents, use Photoshop for more than changing color tones, do some light video editing, etc. None of those are efficient (or even possible) on a tablet. Even the simple things like browsing, Twitter, etc., etc., are more efficient on a notebook or desktop. Again, a tablet is convenient--lightweight, long battery life, etc.--so it has its place alongside a real PC. But thinking it can replace a PC for most people is, I think, entirely unrealistic at this point.
Maybe that'll change in a few years, although I doubt even that. Seriously, who can imagine working EXCLUSIVELY on a 10" screen? And if a tablet becomes something that you plug into external monitors and keyboards and such, well then, ASUS is already mostly there with the Transformer series. And at that point what we'll have is just a more portable PC with external accessories. Once a tablet becomes complex enough in terms of network support, printing, peripheral devices like scanners, etc., then is it really a "tablet" any longer?
..........
demandarin said:
Actually Google is already consdidering this. read several articles on it. it's a great idea bit one catch, Phone carriers would hate it. those companies add those GUI to devices to differentiate themselves from other similar devices. I'd rather have vanilla android experience and not have bloat ui on top of it. A GUI on top of vanilla android will never be faster out the box than a plain vanilla experience. one suggestion was to make the various companies GUI removable if the user chooses. they could use that companies GUI or go vanilla route or use one of the many launchers available on android. Usually a company GUI will be more integrated and stable than one from marketplace.
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Click to collapse
I was hearing at one point that Google was looking to simplify the custom GUI creation (just a custom GUI xml that the manufacturer can push that the vanilla OS will honor) so that even if there are large changes underneath by Google, there is no change needed by the manufacturer prior to release (assuming the manufacturer is only making GUI changes and not anything deeper).
sparkym3 said:
I was hearing at one point that Google was looking to simplify the custom GUI creation (just a custom GUI xml that the manufacturer can push that the vanilla OS will honor) so that even if there are large changes underneath by Google, there is no change needed by the manufacturer prior to release (assuming the manufacturer is only making GUI changes and not anything deeper).
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Click to collapse
that was what it was involving. thanks for pointing out those details.
Link doesn't work anymore!
First of all, I know what a Q is as I was watching the presentation. My actual question is, what Google wants the NQ be? It seems like another expensive experiment initiated by them and to ask everyone the jump, contribute and to work out a solution. The only difference between this time and Google TV is that this thing is beautiful on its own and people will be relative less picky regarding its function.
The fiction that ElGoog is offering is extremely limited and its accompanying hardware is too much of an overkill to only serve this function. Could this be the first step of GoogleTV's sneaky penetration to stylish households or the first piece of puzzle of the grand [email protected] initiative?
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk 2
I think that the big idea behind the Q, is the ability to share the control with everyone around it, what i think is pretty cool
dj_ghosie said:
First of all, I know what a Q is as I was watching the presentation. My actual question is, what Google wants the NQ be? It seems like another expensive experiment initiated by them and to ask everyone the jump, contribute and to work out a solution. The only difference between this time and Google TV is that this thing is beautiful on its own and people will be relative less picky regarding its function.
The fiction that ElGoog is offering is extremely limited and its accompanying hardware is too much of an overkill to only serve this function. Could this be the first step of GoogleTV's sneaky penetration to stylish households or the first piece of puzzle of the grand [email protected] initiative?
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I received a Nexus Q at Google IO, and personally, it's not a piece of equipment that I would purchase with my own money. It seems like it does too little for too much.
The concept, however, is very cool. The fact that you can just stream from all of your friends' libraries is exciting. When cloud based media storage becomes the absolute norm, Nexus Q will probably take a more indispensable niche in people's households. Until then, it seems slightly ahead of its time.
I think the answer to your last question is yes; I can definitely see Google making more advances to Androidify more electronics and traditional furniture.
Does it works via NFC?
Mrozik1990 said:
Does it works via NFC?
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Click to collapse
Only to initialize the communications, ie, shake hands. Further communication is through wifi from your phone to the Q(either wifi or ethernet).
When the Q was first leaked during I/O, I remember thinking immediately that it looked awesome and that I would buy it, as long as it was around $150. Bear in mind this was before it was even apparent of what it actually did, there was just a leaked product image and the notion that it was a Nexus Device. I was dissapointed with the price at first, but can see that Google blew their budget on the design of the Q itself (just read the "Finish" description in the Play Store listing, it makes the device sound AWESOME). I have a couple of questions about the Google's decisions though and some insights on some early common questions I had as well.
First and foremost, my immediate response to the unveiling was the question "Why does it not run Google TV?". This took relatively little time to figure out though. Only days before they announced the new Sony Google TV at $200 and the even more affordable Vizio CoStar at $99. At $300, it was clear that this was not going to compete against them, cool design or not. They also were going for a different direction with this and I also believe they're putting Google TV on the back burner for now as their primary entry point into the living room. This device is obviously more reminiscent of the [email protected] showing that Google had at I/O last year, and is even strikingly similar to the Tungsten Speaker they had demoed last year, down to the LED lights, NFC pairing, and instant streaming from Google Music/What would become Play rather that streaming from the device itself. Also, the amount of testing that this device has been going through if you have been following Google Reports closely which desciribe a Bluetooth Internet connected device that was being tested in private through employees at home; you can tell that they are aiming for bigger things than Google TV with this. Personally, I'm glad as I never understood Google TV; I don't watch a lot of cable and an Android device mirrored on a TV would be more beneficial to me, as I only really want Chrome and Apps.
The second question I had came after I learned about the streamer from News sources, as I can't recall it was in the unveiling. The Nexus Q runs ICS, not Jelly Bean like the other Nexus devices. This puzzled me at first but makes sense when you understand that 4.1 really only brings graphical changes and graphical performance enhancements (seeroject Butter). The advantages of 4.1 would only come in once the Q gets a GUI, but I suppose that the gap less playback support would be useful as well. Either way, I also believe Google will update this device to 4.1 eventually for compatiblility as it is a Nexus after all.
Next, the hardware. I don't really understand why it is essentially the Galaxy Nexus under the hood rather than the Nexus 7. I guess cost would probably be the answer but isn't the Nvidia Kai platform the answer to that question? If they released it with Tegra 3, it would essentially be the Ouya "Elite" (a parallel to the Xbox 360 Elite, down to the black finish and premium features like 25w AMP). In some ways, this could be what Google had in mind when they packed it with 16GB of storage. My speculation is that the reason for this particular hardware is that it's cheaper for them to produce, as the Galaxy Nexus has been in production for so long now. The internal storage is probably because of this too.
The largest question is what Google wants this product to do exactly. Android Police had some interesting ideas that this could become your central [email protected] hub of sorts, and sync with all your other Android powered fixtures in the future (like the bulbs last year at I/O or an Android powered Nest like thermostat). The fact that it communicates directly with Google Play and doesn't rely on streaming also supports this idea, as it means that it is independent and can become the center of your future Android powered home. The superfluous ports and private testing, along with the advertised hackabity makes it seem like they are hoping for a Kinect like response from the Dev community, in which people will find out how to use it in interesting and unique ways. They most likely want to see what UI and applictions others come up with before revealing their own.
Lastly and this is something I've thought only recently is about the off-market price. The device isn't even released yet people are selling the I/O model on eBay for $229. This just speaks to the demand for this product I guess, but it means serious Devs who see potential in this device can pick it up for a relative bargain if they so desire.
So, what are your thoughts?
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Well, that didn't take long. It looks to have the same 1.7GHz SoC and display and in Samsung's naming convention "P" equals "standard" tablet and "N" equals a Note device. So it appears to be a high-end 10.1" tablet with similar specs to the N10. "00" in the model number indicates 3G and "10" is used for Wi-Fi so it's also 3G capable meaning it'll (likely) be launched internationally first. Samsung's model number for the existing N10 is P8110 so if it were to be offered in a 3G version it would become a P8100. Also, storage doesn't affect Samsung's model numbers so if it was a higher-capacity N10 it wouldn't be given a new model number. Since the P8200 is a high-end device by its specs it'll most likely offer Samsung's pretty much standard features like a SD card slot, IR port, and multiview. It'll probably use Samsung's propriatary charging port so it can share existing Samsung accessories and lose USB and HDMI in the process which Samsung hasn't (yet) included in any of their own tablets. I guess we'll know for sure next month at MWC.
The 7" and 10" G-Tab 3's which have already been leaked have also shown up in testing with entry-level displays of 1,024 x 600 and 1,280 x 800 respectively so they are definitely still being targeted at the low-end of the market.
http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/30/three-mystery-samsung-galaxy-tab-profiles-spotted/
Nope.. No way. No how.. Nope.. Samsung make great hardware but they are awful at supporting their own hardware. That thing will get one update only after a year of vague speculative `leaked' memos from Samsung about an update and pure silence on the official Samsung front. Then the update will roll out by the time Google releases that versions replacement.. Then another 8 months of "Will Samsung ever update this tab?" speculation and leaked internal memos... Then out of no where Samsung will release its replacement at the same time dropping upgrade support for it.
Nice
styckx said:
Nope.. No way. No how.. Nope.. Samsung make great hardware but they are awful at supporting their own hardware. That thing will get one update only after a year of vague speculative `leaked' memos from Samsung about an update and pure silence on the official Samsung front. Then the update will roll out by the time Google releases that versions replacement.. Then another 8 months of "Will Samsung ever update this tab?" speculation and leaked internal memos... Then out of no where Samsung will release its replacement at the same time dropping upgrade support for it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This pretty much
Would you rather have that, or... guaranteed updates from Google (the developers of Android itself) and the best device for AOSP? Only people I see getting such a device (if it actually releases that is) are fans of Samsung, but then again even that doesn't make sense, since the Nexus 10 is Samsung... hmm. Maybe fans of Touchwiz might buy it, but still... Is there an actual reason anyone would buy that device, over a Nexus 10?
It was a given that N10's display would show up in Sammy's other GT toys, since it's the best display Sammy has available. The Note line is Sammy's high-end, and the plain GTs are value models. A dual-core N10-alike would then be a value model, with the Note counterpart getting the newer Oxy 4x4.
I'm guessing the N10-alike will show up at same pricing as N10. One likely perk is that it'll probably have a SD slot.
More interesting to me is the reversion back to 1024x600 as the baseline res, as evidenced by both Asus & Acer's low-end 7" models, and now Samsung. One would surmise that $150 is new entry price for this year, with 1280x800 7" at $200. Likewise, the 1280x800 res apparently will also populate value 10" models (at probably $250).
Good to see vendors paying more attention to the low-end, as iPad Mini at $329 leaves a big gap, and iOS popularity is starting to show signs of plateauing.
espionage724 said:
This pretty much
Would you rather have that, or... guaranteed updates from Google (the developers of Android itself) and the best device for AOSP? Only people I see getting such a device (if it actually releases that is) are fans of Samsung, but then again even that doesn't make sense, since the Nexus 10 is Samsung... hmm. Maybe fans of Touchwiz might buy it, but still... Is there an actual reason anyone would buy that device, over a Nexus 10?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would be inclined to agree with you, but judging from the Note vs N10 thread apparently so!
Also, forgot to mention: Nice info OP.
>Is there an actual reason anyone would buy that device, over a Nexus 10?
Yes, distribution & promotion will be better, and more people will know more about it. From the various ad-based analytics thus far, N7 is still behind both KFs and Samsung GTs. N10 would be far behind N7. That, and no SD slot.
Seriously, stop being so parochial with the "my toy is best" attitude. The N10, along with every other toy, is already old, and getting older by the day. In Internet time, it's already past middle-age. You're just feeling your mid-life crisis.
styckx said:
Samsung make great hardware but they are awful at supporting their own hardware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're pretty much quoting history, not the present. They've really been focusing on getting their devices updated more frequently. All their late-model tablets and smartphones are on JB; even the SGS2. Any device with an overlay is going to lag behind an AOSP device but in return you get a ton of usability features. Android 2>3>4 were major leaps. 4>5>6 will be less so simply because Android's matured to the point shocking changes to the UI do more harm than good from a usability perspective. This is especially true now that the N4/7/10 are being positioned as mainstream consumer products vs. a developer's platform. And Samsung's JB wireless stacks aren't borked like they are in AOSP. I'm sure the N10-alike as e.mote called it will have all of Samsung's features like multiview, h/w accelerated Android-based stock browser, AllShare Cast and Play, Peel IR remote, and a color calibrated display. And people (maybe not XDA) like those things as the G-Tab 2's outsell the more powerful N7. AOSP doesn't sell because people like devices that "do stuff" (relying on "Play" doesn't count) as the following chart shows. And since the N10-alike will be sold direct via Samsung's distribution system their margin will be better even if it's the same price as the N10. Hopefully that will allow them to address the QC issues; especially with the display.
Here are a handful of features in TW that aren't in AOSP from another forum's discussion. I'll take them over faster updates any day. With h/w at the level it is "speed" is no longer an issue with the difference between an AOSP and overlayed device differing in milliseconds at things like screen transitions. Ironically, Google's being outgunned by the likes of Samsung and HTC using their own open source OS as the weapon.
The ability to turn off the capacitive button lights so if you're navigating or watching flash-based video in a browser they don't distract you.
Long pressing a function in the notification bar open that function. (EG: short press Wi-Fi = toggle, long press=open Wi-Fi settings) so you have quick access to most used settings no matter where you are in the UI or an app.
Customize which functions appear in the notification bar and reorder them.
Unlock the device via voice including separate commands to unlock via voice directly in to various apps.
Use voice to control the music player, take a picture, snooze or shut off the alarm, or accept or reject an incoming call.
Launch the camera while the device is locked by holding a finger on it and rotating it from vertical to horizontal.
Smart Stay to keep the device awake when looking at it and Smart Rotation to keep it at the same orientation as your eyes if you change position.
Music Hub subscription service with locker storage (matched) for your own music and the ability to download unlimited songs (while subscribed) to the device's SD card and have them all show up in the stock music player.
Music Square which determines the "mood" of all your stored music and allows you to instantly create playlists based on the mood of a song you're currently listening to.
S Voice to control a much broader list of functions by voice than what’s supported by Google Now and dial by name or number via BT including sending MMS and e-mail.
Quick Glance to see time, date, weather, battery life, missed calls/messages, and new e-mail by waving your hand over the device without unlocking it.
Customize your e-mail signature in the stock e-mail client including different fonts, colors, and graphics.
Direct call to automatically dial a number from an open contact, MMS, or e-mail message.
Palm touch to mute the device by covering it with your hand.
Driving mode to read incoming MMS and e-mail aloud.
e.mote said:
>Is there an actual reason anyone would buy that device, over a Nexus 10?
Yes, distribution & promotion will be better, and more people will know more about it. From the various ad-based analytics thus far, N7 is still behind both KFs and Samsung GTs. N10 would be far behind N7. That, and no SD slot.
Seriously, stop being so parochial with the "my toy is best" attitude. The N10, along with every other toy, is already old, and getting older by the day. In Internet time, it's already past middle-age. You're just feeling your mid-life crisis.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I suppose you do make a good point, but I was mostly asking that question to people who might be in the position of either buying a Nexus 10, or the P8200 (the person knows of both devices). If the person does know of both devices very well, then what actual reasons would there be?
The SD card is a pretty controversial part on devices. To most people, they hear "no SD card" and automatically think that device must fail beyond belief. If (and only if) that person actually heavily relies on the SD card for their portable devices, then this is understandable imo.
My mom has a Galaxy Prevail, some VisualLand tablet, and a Galaxy Tab 2. They all have microSD card slots. She however, doesn't use the slots period nor has any use to (there's enough internal storage available, and for everything else, there's streaming). So my mom switching to a device with no SD card slot wouldn't be a big deal at all.
I'm in the same situation as well for the most part, but there was one time where I wished I had gotten the 32GB N10, since installing a bunch of games took up a good amount of space. But then I realized... the games I had installed I wasn't really going to play anyway :shrug: so I got rid of them.
But, in any case, the only thing I see so far that the P8200 has as an advantage over a Nexus 10 is just the microSD card slot. From a general consumers point of view, the P8200 would seem pretty good because of the slot, and Samsung's "intuitive" (or whatever buzzwords used to describe it) Touchwiz interface. I myself like to receive software updates more often, and to have a stock Android experience, but this isn't something a general consumer thinks about when buying a device these days...
Edit:
BarryH_GEG said:
Here are a handful of features in TW that aren't in AOSP from another forum's discussion. I'll take them over faster updates any day. With h/w at the level it is "speed" is no longer an issue with the difference between an AOSP and overlayed device differing in milliseconds at things like screen transitions. Ironically, Google's being outgunned by the likes of Samsung and HTC using their own open source OS as the weapon.
The ability to turn off the capacitive button lights so if you're navigating or watching flash-based video in a browser they don't distract you.
Long pressing a function in the notification bar open that function. (EG: short press Wi-Fi = toggle, long press=open Wi-Fi settings) so you have quick access to most used settings no matter where you are in the UI or an app.
Customize which functions appear in the notification bar and reorder them.
Unlock the device via voice including separate commands to unlock via voice directly in to various apps.
Use voice to control the music player, take a picture, snooze or shut off the alarm, or accept or reject an incoming call.
Launch the camera while the device is locked by holding a finger on it and rotating it from vertical to horizontal.
Smart Stay to keep the device awake when looking at it and Smart Rotation to keep it at the same orientation as your eyes if you change position.
Music Hub subscription service with locker storage (matched) for your own music and the ability to download unlimited songs (while subscribed) to the device's SD card and have them all show up in the stock music player.
Music Square which determines the "mood" of all your stored music and allows you to instantly create playlists based on the mood of a song you're currently listening to.
S Voice to control a much broader list of functions by voice than what’s supported by Google Now and dial by name or number via BT including sending MMS and e-mail.
Quick Glance to see time, date, weather, battery life, missed calls/messages, and new e-mail by waving your hand over the device without unlocking it.
Customize your e-mail signature in the stock e-mail client including different fonts, colors, and graphics.
Direct call to automatically dial a number from an open contact, MMS, or e-mail message.
Palm touch to mute the device by covering it with your hand.
Driving mode to read incoming MMS and e-mail aloud.
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Some of that does sound pretty cool actually Still can't say it would make me choose a P8200 over a Nexus 10 though.
>I was mostly asking that question to people who might be in the position of either buying a Nexus 10, or the P8200 (the person knows of both devices). If the person does know of both devices very well, then what actual reasons would there be?
Don't worry, the P8200 is still just a rumor. You have a few more months to play with your baby.
Anyway, if you were serious about the question, you wouldn't be asking it here, where most peeps are already N10 owners, and thus biased toward their own purchase.
N10 has the privilege of "getting it first," both in hardware and OS. But along with that is "getting it buggy," again both in hardware and software. 4.2 has had teething issues; ditto N10 hardware. Other drawbacks include lack of accessories. Determining "better" then depends on the user, whether he wants his toys fast, or having them stable and polished. Some would opt for the first, but the majority would opt for the second.
One major consideration, which Barry mentioned indirectly, is whether N10 will get an update for Miracast. For me, that, more than any other spec, is the must-have feature for high-end tablets this year.
I don't care if Samsung releases an updated version. What I care about, are the dimensions of said tablet. If the dimensions are like the N10's then everyone benefits with compatible hardware that Samsung will bring to the table. There's still the dock for the N10 that Google had shown off in one of their holiday videos. So hopefully the new one will have the same dimensions, so we will have hardware to go with the N10.
Sent from my EVO using xda app-developers app
>There's still the dock for the N10 that Google had shown off in one of their holiday videos.
N10 didn't have a dock in said video; it was a generic stand that lacks stability. The shown setup would tip over if you try to use the tablet. Contrast that against the stability of the N7 dock, shown in same vid.
Secondly, the curved N10 silhouette is unique among tablets. Sammy's GT and GT2 lines have straight edges, not curved. The GT3 line may well follow N10 style, but that would be a hypothetical.
e.mote said:
Don't worry, the P8200 is still just a rumor. You have a few more months to play with your baby.
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I'd assume there's some window of exclusivity in Google's contract with Samsung for the N10 to prevent them from releasing a carbon copy within too short a time frame. If it's six months, the soonest you'd see a N10-alike would be April or May. Samsung selling their own version reusing many of the same components would also benefit Google in driving the N10's costs down based on the additional volume. Google's not in the h/w business; they’re in the business of selling ads and content and they'd make the same in that regard whether someone buys an N10 or P8200 so I'm sure they are fine with it.
One major consideration, which Barry mentioned indirectly, is whether N10 will get an update for Miracast. For me, that, more than any other spec, is the must-have feature for high-end tablets this year.
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That's up to Google, not Samsung. The N10's built by Samsung to Google's spec so they are responsible for what's there or missing. The good news is that there's so little out that can receive Miracast it's not like anyone's missing anything. I'm sure the P8200 will have AllShare Cast so Samsung can sell more proprietary dongles.
e.mote said:
Secondly, the curved N10 silhouette is unique among tablets. Sammy's GT and GT2 lines have straight edges, not curved. The GT3 line may well follow N10 style, but that would be a hypothetical.
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It'll be interesting to see if Samsung goes with a different screen/bezel design for the P8200. The current one-piece unit is the source of all the QC issues and the approach hasn't been used anywhere else by Samsung. The entire unit is shaped to mirror the N10's housing so either the display has to be redone or the P8200 will be shaped like the N10.
The new G-Tab 3's are shaped like Samsung's existing tablets. Since there's already a 10" G-Tab 3, the P8200 is either going to be positioned above it as a different series or could be called a G-Tab 3 HD.
Cmorris8848 said:
everyone benefits with compatible hardware that Samsung will bring to the table.
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They'll almost surely use their proprietary 30-pin connector so that all the existing tablet accessories work with it. They went to universal accessories after the OG G-Tab(s) and they work on all Samsung’s tablets so that’s not going to help N10 users. Covers and stuff would work but only if they stick to the N10's design which I think is highly unlikely. It's one thing to build a tablet similar to the N10 and another thing to sell a rebadged version of the same tablet in direct competition to their partner's version.
Samsung's products always look good on paper but end up being so buggy they're frustrating to use. I really wish Samsung would iron out some of their problems since they seem to be the most innovate (IMO) manufacturer out there and have great hardware to back it up.
>I'd assume there's some window of exclusivity in Google's contract with Samsung for the N10 to prevent them from releasing a carbon copy within too short a time frame.
I don't think exclusivity matters. Nexus toys are priced below equivalent commercial products, so there's no incentive for the OEM (Samsung) to do "branded" clones of Nexus toys, as it would be undercutting its other products. If anything, Sammy would want the Nexus to have as little exposure as possible, so not to generate any price pressure on high-end Android tabs (which hasn't happened with N10).
>Samsung selling their own version reusing many of the same components would also benefit Google in driving the N10's costs down based on the additional volume.
IMO, Google isn't paying Samsung per unit. It's likely Sammy's play. Sammy gets OS development experience in working alongside Goog's design team, the prestige and exposure, and Goog's help in advertising and distribution. In return, Sammy handles the manufacturing and hardware support. So any volume-of-scale benefit would accrue to Samsung. It's probably a bit more entangled than that, being a joint venture.
>That's [Miracast] up to Google, not Samsung.
I think it's more up to the custom ROM guys. In any case, we should know by the time the new toys launch if N10 will get Mira or not.
>The good news is that there's so little out that can receive Miracast it's not like anyone's missing anything.
Miracast would be an appealing sales hook, as opposed to the usual pitch of ever-higher res and faster SoC. It's something that the buyer can see, and is an actual useful feature. I think it will have a fast ramp, and we'll see many offerings at MWC.
BTW, looks like PTV3000 works with Note 2, so you won't be stuck with just Sammy's own toys.
http://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/mobile/5kUFRgcEYXE
"I can confirm that the 2.2.4 firmware works with my Note 2.
PTV3000 2.2.4
Fully stock Note 2 AT&T - with the new 4.1.2 JB (multi window) update from samsung."
>Samsung's products always look good on paper but end up being so buggy they're frustrating to use.
The easy solution is don't buy toys on launch day. Wait a month for feedback from those with arrows sticking out their backside.
e.mote said:
IMO, Google isn't paying Samsung per unit. It's likely Sammy's play. Sammy gets OS development experience in working alongside Goog's design team, the prestige and exposure, and Goog's help in advertising and distribution. In return, Sammy handles the manufacturing and hardware support. So any volume-of-scale benefit would accrue to Samsung. It's probably a bit more entangled than that, being a joint venture.
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I think that's the way it used to work but there's little incentive for Samsung to sell a couple of million N10's over its lifetime at reduced margins to the rest of their devices. Frankly, Samsung doesn't need prestige; they mean more to Android than Google does based on the percentage of Android devices that are Samsung branded. I'd guess Google turned to Samsung for a 10" tablet simply because the cost of high end components like the ultra-HD display and A15 SoC necessary to power it would have made the final cost too expensive if it were built by LG or Asus who would have to buy components third party. I'm sure Samsung's making a fair (but lower than their own) margin on the N10. And it came out in the Apple trial that Samsung has over 100 s/w engineers based in the U.S. working directly with Google so they've already got all the knowledge transfer they need.
If this tablet turns out to be like Nexus 10 & Note 10.1 together, this will kill the Nexus 10! Can't wait to hear more about this tablet.
>Frankly, Samsung doesn't need prestige; they mean more to Android than Google does based on the percentage of Android devices that are Samsung branded.
Prestige/exposure may not be a big deal, but working hand-in-glove with Google's development of JB certainly qualifies. Software is key to differentiation, and many of Sam's enhancements in its Note devices surely benefitted from its close relationship with Google.
Who pays whom doesn't really matter; Nexus is a joint venture. What matters is that at this point, Nexus has shown no aspiration to be a mainstream product line. The marketing isn't there. Its intentions are rather muddied, but I see a Nexus as more of a reference device + halo product, that caters to vendors/developers/enthusiasts--not joe-blow buyer. That may be by design, as Samsung/Asus/LG wouldn't be too happy if the Nexus brand becomes a full-blown competitor. It's a balancing act, like with the various "co-opetition" relationships we've seen, eg MS' Surface products.
As for who needs whom more, Android is obviously more important to Sammy than Sammy to Android. If Sammy were to disappear today, Android phones will still roll along, with HTC and other players taking up the slack. If Android disappears, Sammy would have...Tizen? WP8?
In fact, that would be a good test of the Samsung brand, to see how much WP8 sales the announced ATIV S & Odyssey can generate. Hey, may be Sammy can singlehandedly boost Win8 sales as well?
I don't think so.
BarryH_GEG said:
You're pretty much quoting history, not the present. They've really been focusing on getting their devices updated more frequently. All their late-model tablets and smartphones are on JB; even the SGS2. Any device with an overlay is going to lag behind an AOSP device but in return you get a ton of usability features. Android 2>3>4 were major leaps. 4>5>6 will be less so simply because Android's matured to the point shocking changes to the UI do more harm than good from a usability perspective. This is especially true now that the N4/7/10 are being positioned as mainstream consumer products vs. a developer's platform. And Samsung's JB wireless stacks aren't borked like they are in AOSP. I'm sure the N10-alike as e.mote called it will have all of Samsung's features like multiview, h/w accelerated Android-based stock browser, AllShare Cast and Play, Peel IR remote, and a color calibrated display. And people (maybe not XDA) like those things as the G-Tab 2's outsell the more powerful N7. AOSP doesn't sell because people like devices that "do stuff" (relying on "Play" doesn't count) as the following chart shows. And since the N10-alike will be sold direct via Samsung's distribution system their margin will be better even if it's the same price as the N10. Hopefully that will allow them to address the QC issues; especially with the display.
Here are a handful of features in TW that aren't in AOSP from another forum's discussion. I'll take them over faster updates any day. With h/w at the level it is "speed" is no longer an issue with the difference between an AOSP and overlayed device differing in milliseconds at things like screen transitions. Ironically, Google's being outgunned by the likes of Samsung and HTC using their own open source OS as the weapon.
The ability to turn off the capacitive button lights so if you're navigating or watching flash-based video in a browser they don't distract you.
Long pressing a function in the notification bar open that function. (EG: short press Wi-Fi = toggle, long press=open Wi-Fi settings) so you have quick access to most used settings no matter where you are in the UI or an app.
Customize which functions appear in the notification bar and reorder them.
Unlock the device via voice including separate commands to unlock via voice directly in to various apps.
Use voice to control the music player, take a picture, snooze or shut off the alarm, or accept or reject an incoming call.
Launch the camera while the device is locked by holding a finger on it and rotating it from vertical to horizontal.
Smart Stay to keep the device awake when looking at it and Smart Rotation to keep it at the same orientation as your eyes if you change position.
Music Hub subscription service with locker storage (matched) for your own music and the ability to download unlimited songs (while subscribed) to the device's SD card and have them all show up in the stock music player.
Music Square which determines the "mood" of all your stored music and allows you to instantly create playlists based on the mood of a song you're currently listening to.
S Voice to control a much broader list of functions by voice than what’s supported by Google Now and dial by name or number via BT including sending MMS and e-mail.
Quick Glance to see time, date, weather, battery life, missed calls/messages, and new e-mail by waving your hand over the device without unlocking it.
Customize your e-mail signature in the stock e-mail client including different fonts, colors, and graphics.
Direct call to automatically dial a number from an open contact, MMS, or e-mail message.
Palm touch to mute the device by covering it with your hand.
Driving mode to read incoming MMS and e-mail aloud.
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I don't even know where to begin... First nexus devices have no buttons so there's that.
Second 4.2 has quick settings
Third unlocking via voice can hurt battery life
Forth pretty much everything to do with voice isn't that grand. Until it is better implemented it is just a gimmick. Sure Google now can't do as much yet (one can argue it actually does more ie: getting your boarding pass and updating tracking info for packages) it does it so much more accurately and faster
Fifth smart start and smart rotation suck. They don't work well especially if you wear glasses.
Sixth did you forget about Google music?
I don't plan to mention anything else as they are just gimmicky features. I have a galaxy s3 and use a note 2 from time to time. They're all cool features but half the time they don't work. Until they are reliable I don't consider them features.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk HD
If there is one thing I haven't seen in the forums...or any documentation online is what kind of tags and maximum size t have e S4 is compatible with. I've read something like NDG tags are compatible but are limited to 144bits. Does anyone know which brand...size to buy? Im not interested in Samsungs 5 tags for $15....way to expensive if you ask me. Ive seen 10 for 15 which is worth it. Thanks ahead of time.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2
chrishoyt2012 said:
If there is one thing I haven't seen in the forums...or any documentation online is what kind of tags and maximum size t have e S4 is compatible with. I've read something like NDG tags are compatible but are limited to 144bits. Does anyone know which brand...size to buy? Im not interested in Samsungs 5 tags for $15....way to expensive if you ask me. Ive seen 10 for 15 which is worth it. Thanks ahead of time.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2
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NFC Forum Type 4 tags such as DESFire have the most storage. However they are hard to find and expensive. I think Samsung's new Tectiles are going to be DESFire but as you mentioned they are charging a premium for them.
In regards to size, it really depends on what you intend to use them for. Usually people find the 144 (137 actual) bytes on the NTAG203 are enough. Plus at less than a buck each, the NTAG203 is often an attractive choice for anyone who wants to give NFC a try first without breaking the bank.
Basic things...like turn drive mode on in car...turn wifi on and off...maybe a few other things...not much. How many commands does the one you mentioned hold?
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chrishoyt2012 said:
Basic things...like turn drive mode on in car...turn wifi on and off...maybe a few other things...not much. How many commands does the one you mentioned hold?
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2
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Depends on the command, I've posted about this before:
"In my opinion, for everyday use 144 bytes (NTAG203, type 2 tag) is more than enough. I've attached a screenshot where I launched a URL, toggled WiFi, adjusted the brightness and set an alarm, it used up 111 bytes on the NFC Tag."
Link to the post with the screenshot:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=41023342#post41023342
As said before, for most things NTAG203 Tags have enough memory. They'll work great with apps like NFC Smart Q and other task triggering apps and be able to handle your task triggering just fine. If you need larger memory tags for things like creating a Vcard with all your contact info on it then the Topaz 512 tags are great. They have about 450 bytes of data on them which is plenty for a full company contact vcard.
I would not recommend using Samsungs Tectile App with either of these tags. Their app uses WAY more memory to accomplish even a small task/trigger than any other NFC app. Other NFC Apps on Google Play are much better and would mostly only need the NTAG203 memory.
Other than that, any NFC Tag that is Type 1 or Type 2 will work with the S4, but the two above are the most affordable right now.
Do NOT use Mifare Classic Tags - they have lots of memory and work great with most phones, but are NOT compatible with the S4.