Just days after my team Unlocked the IROM, Samsung is selling a "Developer Edition". This developer edition will be more secure than the exploit unlock my team provides.
http://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/cell-phones/SCH-I605MSAVZW
I find this really funny. I will also call those who pay for this device a sucker.
heck yea
Why would anyone in their right mind fork that kind of money over, when Adam Outler has opened this bad device up for you, you are right, they are a sucker if they fall for this.
Need to hire you Adam. Samsung will make major inprovements. I call for a petition.
Sent from my rooted Verizon Galaxy Note 2. FU Verizon and all tour BS you throw around.
I can think of several reasons to buy it. First, and most important, if Samsung gets high demand for this, it gives them data to send back to Verizon on subsequent models saying "look, there is a market for unlocked phones". This is especially true if Samsung sells significantly more of them on another carrier, and there is high demand for the unlocked version.
Another reason would be, if this is shipping unlocked in a manner that would allow you to flash the kernel and recovery, you are getting an unlocked phone that still has its warranty. Technically, you can restore your current phone to the factory state and get warranty coverage, but you broke the warranty. That would be less of an issue on the Developer edition.
Next, you'll never have to worry about an OTA update breaking the unlocked state of your device. It is possible that checks will be introduced to require a specific bootloader version to work with updated radios or kernels, or other proprietary libraries. We may be able to hack around it, but this isn't something you'd need to worry about here.
Finally, lets say you want to buy the device at full retail to keep your unlimited data. Why go and buy it at Verizon and let them make money off of a locked phone? This goes back to the first point too. Spend the same amount with Samsung, let them get the profits for producing an unlocked device.
imnuts said:
I can think of several reasons to buy it. First, and most important, if Samsung gets high demand for this, it gives them data to send back to Verizon on subsequent models saying "look, there is a market for unlocked phones". This is especially true if Samsung sells significantly more of them on another carrier, and there is high demand for the unlocked version.
Another reason would be, if this is shipping unlocked in a manner that would allow you to flash the kernel and recovery, you are getting an unlocked phone that still has its warranty. Technically, you can restore your current phone to the factory state and get warranty coverage, but you broke the warranty. That would be less of an issue on the Developer edition.
Next, you'll never have to worry about an OTA update breaking the unlocked state of your device. It is possible that checks will be introduced to require a specific bootloader version to work with updated radios or kernels, or other proprietary libraries. We may be able to hack around it, but this isn't something you'd need to worry about here.
Finally, lets say you want to buy the device at full retail to keep your unlimited data. Why go and buy it at Verizon and let them make money off of a locked phone? This goes back to the first point too. Spend the same amount with Samsung, let them get the profits for producing an unlocked device.
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none of those are valid reasons. They are all possible on your device already. If they wanted to collect data they could.
AdamOutler said:
none of those are valid reasons. They are all possible on your device already. If they wanted to collect data they could.
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They can collect unlocked data, but they can't say "these people wanted an unlocked device only". By purchasing the phone directly from them, they have hard numbers to provide. Also, how is the possibility of an OTA limiting future radios, etc. based on bootloader version not valid? Are they likely to do it? No, but it is still a possibility. And why would not buying it from Verizon be an invalid reason? You seem to hate them for locking it, so why would you buy it directly from them to help support them further in locking the device? I'd rather have whatever profits there are go only to Samsung.
imnuts said:
Next, you'll never have to worry about an OTA update breaking the unlocked state of your device.
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I was under the impression(probably mistaken) that if we have a custom recovery installed that we wouldn't have to worry about an OTA installing itself? Am I incorrect in assuming this?
Thanks!
The way I see it, Samsung wants the phone unlocked from the start. They know that they can appeal to a greater Android crowd by letting it be easily unlocked, as it is on virtually all other flavors of the phone. When it comes to Verizon however, they have no say in the matter initially. It must be locked. This is the same for pretty much all other phone OEM's on Verizon as well. Hell, my old Droid X STILL doesn't have an unlocked bootloader.
By selling a "developer edition" that works on Verizon, it's kinda like they're sticking the finger back at Verizon while simultaneously making direct profit. Since they are the ones who made this beautiful device, I have no problem with this. They definitely deserve it. And they could opt to just not sell us these unlocked devices anyway, leaving us in the dust to deal with waiting on OTA's and never being able to truly update our device with custom firmware.
Either way if it weren't for you Adam and your team, this would be our only option. It's amazing to me that you guys were able to break Verizon's grasp on our devices and really stick it to them. As someone who has endured the annoying locked bootloader for a long time with my Droid X, it makes me grin ear to ear seeing their attempts to control our devices be foiled in just a couple of weeks after release.
Muchos gracias friend. And a big OORAH to you.
Old MuckenMire said:
I was under the impression(probably mistaken) that if we have a custom recovery installed that we wouldn't have to worry about an OTA installing itself? Am I incorrect in assuming this?
Thanks!
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The OTA won't install itself, but, there could be checks in place that require everything to be a specific version before they would work. Obviously we're not on a stock bootloader, which has it's own version and checksum info. They could put something in that keeps let say, the cell radio from working if the bootloader isn't the proper version, thereby forcing you to unlock and update, or be stuck on old software. I doubt that this will happen, but it is a possiblity.
ihavenewnike said:
Need to hire you Adam. Samsung will make major inprovements. I call for a petition.
Sent from my rooted Verizon Galaxy Note 2. FU Verizon and all tour BS you throw around.
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the problem is not samsung its verizon...samsung does not encrypt bootloaders. verizon requests the device to be locked and samsung must comply in order to manufacture devices for that network.
imnuts said:
The OTA won't install itself, but, there could be checks in place that require everything to be a specific version before they would work. Obviously we're not on a stock bootloader, which has it's own version and checksum info. They could put something in that keeps let say, the cell radio from working if the bootloader isn't the proper version, thereby forcing you to unlock and update, or be stuck on old software. I doubt that this will happen, but it is a possiblity.
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I'm running deodexed stock, is there anything I or a developer can do that would block any OTA, and block the notification and nagging that would happen?
Thanks again man!
delete
droidstyle said:
delete
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OK I found that under application manager>all>SDM
The option to disable is greyed out so I guess I will need to freeze via TiBu
Thank you for this info I sure hope it works I hate the idea that Verizon can still bork my device.
Oops I see you deleted your last post, does that mean I need to hold off doing the procedure you posted?
These unlocked, developer's edition would make sense if they were available the day the locked version came out. Even if Adam and his team hadn't unlocked the bootloader, any metrics collected from sales or interest in this late developer's edition is would already be skewed because the next big thing like the s4 is now even closer making this device close to being dated before it even ships.
phind123 said:
These unlocked, developer's edition would make sense if they were available the day the locked version came out. Even if Adam and his team hadn't unlocked the bootloader, any metrics collected from sales or interest in this late developer's edition is would already be skewed because the next big thing like the s4 is now even closer making this device close to being dated before it even ships.
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nah... the download counters speak for themselves.
1500 so far.
Maybe a source code would be available on the dev edition that would help the devs with the locked editions
Sent from my SCH-I605 using xda app-developers app
crazydad said:
Maybe a source code would be available on the dev edition that would help the devs with the locked editions
Sent from my SCH-I605 using xda app-developers app
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The required source release will be the same for both.
Old MuckenMire said:
OK I found that under application manager>all>SDM
The option to disable is greyed out so I guess I will need to freeze via TiBu
Thank you for this info I sure hope it works I hate the idea that Verizon can still bork my device.
Oops I see you deleted your last post, does that mean I need to hold off doing the procedure you posted?
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If you see sdm 1.0 in your apps then yes freeze it! I believe on beans rom its already removed. I could not remember if it had it stock, that's why I deleted my post...however I do know it was there on the GS3 stock.
One thing nobody has mentioned is the fact that there is a 32GB version not just 16
Sent from my SCH-I605 using xda app-developers app
Killer Turtle said:
One thing nobody has mentioned is the fact that there is a 32GB version not just 16
Sent from my SCH-I605 using xda app-developers app
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It doesn't say that anywhere in the specs...
Related
The Evo already got it, and im sure the incredible is almost there. Whats wrong with the Eris? And what Hboot are those two devices running?
Nikolai2.1 said:
The Evo already got it, and im sure the incredible is almost there. Whats wrong with the Eris? And what Hboot are those two devices running?
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uuuummm what r u talkin about ? im confused , the eris is already rooted ,atleast if u have 1.5 u can root it or the 2.1 ota i belie ve u can too
tazzpatriot said:
uuuummm what r u talkin about ? im confused , the eris is already rooted ,atleast if u have 1.5 u can root it or the 2.1 ota i belie ve u can too
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I thought it would be obvious that im talking about the leaked versions
it's just attention has been diverted that's all. if all the devs were working on rooting those leaks I have no doubt in my mind it would have already been, or very close to being rooted, but as it stands, most devs already have root on their phones so they arent as focused to rooting anymore, just providing more things already rooted phones. I'm sure there are some more devso ut there trying everyday to root it, but without as many, or as much work into it, it's going to be quite a while to get there.
I was looking into it myself, until my trackball stopped working and I got a replacement phone, so I guess I could be to blame as well for this.
Lemcott said:
it's just attention has been diverted that's all. if all the devs were working on rooting those leaks I have no doubt in my mind it would have already been, or very close to being rooted, but as it stands, most devs already have root on their phones so they arent as focused to rooting anymore, just providing more things already rooted phones. I'm sure there are some more devso ut there trying everyday to root it, but without as many, or as much work into it, it's going to be quite a while to get there.
I was looking into it myself, until my trackball stopped working and I got a replacement phone, so I guess I could be to blame as well for this.
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devs are def. working on the issue. problem is, it's a no paying job.
I dont get the whole point in calling Android open source software if they have to lock our phones so we cant do anything. if we screw it up thats our fault so i dont see the problem
cornbreadfarts said:
devs are def. working on the issue. problem is, it's a no paying job.
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Yes, I recognized that some are still working on it, I just said that attention has been diverted greatly. do you think releasing an ad blocker, various roms, overclocking, froyo, live wallpapers, aosp/jit support they were busy trying to root at the same time? of course not, you can only do so much at once, and attention to rooting has shifted greatly. have they forgot about it completely? hell no! they just put it on the backburners.
Nikolai2.1 said:
I dont get the whole point in calling Android open source software if they have to lock our phones so we cant do anything. if we screw it up thats our fault so i dont see the problem
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google and android being open source has nothing to do with it. it's the carriers who prefer to lock down the phones.
A to keep the general public out of things that could hurt. could you imagine any old lady picking up an android phone and overclocking and the SU app, and all the other tools were there? it'd either destroy her phone when she messes with it, or left alone entirely because she doesnt know what they do. eitherway? they become pointless to have on the phone.
B to keep users out of things that cost more money. did you know you have to actually pay verizon an extra addition on your bill to unlock tethering on the phones they allow tethering on? by having root, we can tether without them knowing on phones that don't usually have tethering and we can do it without paying for it. it's not exactly something they want going on, so they lock the phones down.
C safety. Having root access on our phone gives apps a lot more things to control, and with such, if anything malicious gets on our phone, it can do more damage on a root user then a locked down phone.
so take the nexus one for instance, if you bought that through google, not a wireless provider, it still has root on it for the first and last reasons I mentioned. to keep the general public out of things they don't need to be getting into/understand how to control. and with the safety lockdown, the average person who goes "oh what's this?" *click* on a malicious app doesnt get that chance.
it's not about keeping us out, it's about making the service providers happy, and keeping the general public safe.
google has put into android a very simple way to get root access for us all, it's the phone hardware (and their custom software additions) and the service providers that make it harder and harder to get into the system.
makes sense, but safe from what? its a phone... it wont kill you
buttttt how would you go about getting a pre rooted nexus one even if you dont have t mobile and just want the phone?
Nikolai2.1 said:
makes sense, but safe from what? its a phone... it wont kill you
buttttt how would you go about getting a pre rooted nexus one even if you dont have t mobile and just want the phone?
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No the phone wont hurt you, just your pocket when the average person, who knows zip about what they are doing with a rooted phone totally bricks the phone and has to buy a new one, at full retail price. Or perhaps they load up a app that causes major issues with the phone, causing it to lock up/fail. again hurting the pocket book by having to buy a new phone at retail price.
I'm not trying to be a **** here but I'm fairly certain that when any of us load anything onto the phone we're aware of the risks it could bring, I would hope you went into this with the same mentality.
that is what we are saying, anying who can make an account on XDA, actually, anyone who has even HEARD of xda is probably smart enough to not do any brick-inducing stupid moves.
I'm talking about the average person who doesnt know the difference between RAM and ROM here, it's locked down to protect them from their own dumb moves.
frankspin said:
I'm not trying to be a **** here but I'm fairly certain that when any of us load anything onto the phone we're aware of the risks it could bring, I would hope you went into this with the same mentality.
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thats exactly what im trying to say. if we screw up our phones that our own fault so i dont see why we should worry about others who brick their phones and end up buying new ones. thats their fault and they can deal with it
(now because i said that if im ever able to root ill probably brick my phone trying) karma sucks...
but still.
Yeah, I'm not entering my name anywhere. Thanks anyway, HTC. Besides, AlphaRev and Unrevoked already did your job for you.
Since our last update, many of you have asked how the bootloader unlocking process will actually work, and in particular why HTC's most recently released devices still have a locked bootloader. Rest assured we're making progress toward our goal to roll out the first software updates in August to support unlocking for the global HTC Sensation, followed soon by the HTC Sensation 4G on T-Mobile and the HTC EVO 3D on Sprint. Because unlocking the bootloader provides extensive control over the device and modifications may cause operation, security and experience issues, new devices will continue to ship locked but will support user-initiated unlocking using a new Web-based tool.
So how will this work? The Web tool, which will launch this month, requires that you register an account with a valid e-mail address and accept legal disclaimers that unlocking may void all or parts of your warranty. Then plug in your phone to a computer with the Android SDK loaded to retrieve a device identifier token, which you can then enter into the Web tool to receive a unique unlock key via e-mail. Finally, apply the key to your device and unlocking will be initiated on your phone.
We're excited to bring bootloader unlocking to developers and enthusiasts, and we feel this new Web tool will meet your needs and continue to provide customers with the best experience. Thanks to the community for supporting these efforts!
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https://www.facebook.com/note.php?saved&¬e_id=10150305151453084&id=101063233083
I figured they would want a way to know exactly which phones were unlocked. i'll stick with alpha revs method.
From my mikmikoptimized shooter!
blackroseMD1 said:
Yeah, I'm not entering my name anywhere. Thanks anyway, HTC. Besides, AlphaRev and Unrevoked already did your job for you.
https://www.facebook.com/note.php?saved&¬e_id=10150305151453084&id=101063233083
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wow. some actual clarity on what they plan to do.
nice to see an update !
but for the evo3d is a bit late
Lmao,actually according to their explanation,their method sounds just like AlpharevX.It would be hilarious if alpharevX sold their method to HTC.
That blows. They couldn't just ship the damn thing unlocked.
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
ktulu909 said:
Lmao,actually according to their explanation,their method sounds just like AlpharevX.It would be hilarious if alpharevX sold their method to HTC.
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Well, if he did I hope he didn't sell them the serial numbers of the ones already unlocked jk
I guess it all makes sense (har har).
If it makes the carriers happy, who cares if this is how they do it? I'm sure whenever they release a bootloader unlocker someone on XDA will take it and make it so you can do it without the email/key. We're gonna come out ahead either way.
Well i guess now they will know when we unlock our bootloader and warranty I don't care since I don't use the warranty anyways
If you don't have an Evo3d well you don't have an Evo3d
I'd be curious to know from Google, Sprint and Samsung how many problems they have from the NexusS4G being very easily unlockable...I doubt it's very many...and HTC should suck on that.
I don't know if that's as much of a fair comparison - with the Nexus being near stock I wouldn't expect them to be flashed/bricked nearly as much as with the Evo4G.
The OG Evo gained so much from flashing - features, kernels, whole new versions of sense. And it had so many updates over the life of the phone, making for different rooting methods and having people flash their phones many many times, making it one of if not the most developed phone we have seen.
I'm quite certain the brick count on those were some of the highest anyone's ever seen as well. That's after all the returns from dead pixels, bad charging ports, and what have you. You can understand a carrier/manufacturer's wishing to prevent all that.
By the same token, it feels like HTC benefits greatly from the development community, perhaps using a lot of what they see here in their own updates (maybe even waiting for people to fix their bugs). They definitely see value in unlocking phones, which I guess we should be happy about.
As long as HTC keeps their unlocked policy I will remain a loyal customer.
nhutpham said:
I don't know if that's as much of a fair comparison - with the Nexus being near stock I wouldn't expect them to be flashed/bricked nearly as much as with the Evo4G.
The OG Evo gained so much from flashing - features, kernels, whole new versions of sense. And it had so many updates over the life of the phone, making for different rooting methods and having people flash their phones many many times, making it one of if not the most developed phone we have seen.
I'm quite certain the brick count on those were some of the highest anyone's ever seen as well. That's after all the returns from dead pixels, bad charging ports, and what have you. You can understand a carrier/manufacturer's wishing to prevent all that.
By the same token, it feels like HTC benefits greatly from the development community, perhaps using a lot of what they see here in their own updates (maybe even waiting for people to fix their bugs). They definitely see value in unlocking phones, which I guess we should be happy about.
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Were there that many bricked E4G's? I don't recall hearing about that many of them in my tenure on the forum...admittedly I barely spent any time in General that year as Development was bustling from before day 1.
...but, per capita I doubt the brick-count was that far off the average for any other popular phone worth rooting. God knows I did horrible things to mine and never even had to fix it via adb/fastboot.... it was a very popular phone even among the average joe.
I know that HTC benefits greatly from the dev community. Where do you think they got the FPS-unlock from? Among other things. That's how open source works and is designed to work. That's also why myself and others were so shocked with the whole 'locking' fiasco.
...now, aside from our own speculation about how high the brick rate may or may not have been why not speculate about something more productive: How LOW the brick rate could be if they utilized eMMC's secure-write technology to make a 'mega-recovery' partition that would be locked and even WE wouldn't want to unlock it....that could be used in a worst case scenario to fully restore a phone to stock...to enable the unlocking that WE want and reduce the (understandable) liability of allowing full control that they want. We get unlock, they get insulation from liability of allowing such a feature (that most people STILL wouldn't know about or care about)....why don't they do that? eMMC makes that trivial to implement (as we found out the hard way)...neglecting the fact that they could have utilized any number of simpler technologies to accomplish the same thing even before eMMC...why not?
That's a topic for further speculation (get your tinfoil hats ready), but, why don't they do that? Play both sides of the field. No voided warranties, no brick returns, no pissed off modders....win win win, right? The carrier doesn't want that? Cool, let us know, we'll flock to the carrier that allows it...something tells me Sprint would be that underdog...
ktulu909 said:
Lmao,actually according to their explanation,their method sounds just like AlpharevX.It would be hilarious if alpharevX sold their method to HTC.
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Click to collapse
Not at all like what AlphaRevX did. The only reason they had the serial number check was because it was in Beta so they could shut down their serial generator and stop people using their unlock if they found a problem with it.
This HTC method makes sense, and I think it's fair. Their tool only needs to hook up to your phone to get the device identifier token, the unlock actually happens on the phone itself. This way HTC gets a list of unlocked phones so when people go for support you can't lie to them that your phone was unlocked, but people can have day one unlocks on any phone from HTC going forward.
So now HTC wants to know who exactly is unlocking there phones??
Nice try you sneaky basterds
What's wrong with them knowing if you're unlocked? They have to do that... Otherwise insurance companies would get upset. This is legit and it if people screw their phones up due to user error while unlocked then they shouldn't be able to file a claim.
This also let's them see just how many people want to be unlocked so they don't try and take it away from us again
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA Premium App
Rippley05 said:
What's wrong with them knowing if you're unlocked? They have to do that... Otherwise insurance companies would get upset. This is legit and it if people screw their phones up due to user error while unlocked then they shouldn't be able to file a claim.
This also let's them see just how many people want to be unlocked so they don't try and take it away from us again
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA Premium App
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yeah....I dunno. They could (relatively) easily make the phones nearly brick-proof (see my above post) yet they do not. Why? I'm almost irritated by all of the altruistic sentiment for 'doing the right thing'....not because of the altruism, I actually find that refreshing and endearing. It's more because they could take steps to nearly eliminate the potential for bricking (and in doing so insulate the insurance company from liability...making that a moot point), but that people are defending a position that needn't exist.
nhutpham said:
i guess it all makes sense (har har).
If it makes the carriers happy, who cares if this is how they do it? I'm sure whenever they release a bootloader unlocker someone on xda will take it and make it so you can do it without the email/key. We're gonna come out ahead either way.
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+1000000000
Haha, sounds exactly how alpharev did it...hmm, maybe they tore it out of alpharevs hands, i dont know, sounds fishy.
daneurysm said:
yeah....I dunno. They could (relatively) easily make the phones nearly brick-proof (see my above post) yet they do not. Why? I'm almost irritated by all of the altruistic sentiment for 'doing the right thing'....not because of the altruism, I actually find that refreshing and endearing. It's more because they could take steps to nearly eliminate the potential for bricking (and in doing so insulate the insurance company from liability...making that a moot point), but that people are defending a position that needn't exist.
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You don't know why they're doing it. Maybe they wanna track the people that abuse the crap out of wireless tether... Maybe it's for other reasons. Who cares, they are unlocking it for us and that's all that matters. I have nothing to hide when I root so I care less. If you're upset about it then there are other options.
People are getting exactly what they wanted and they still find a reason to cry... Get over it already
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA Premium App
I think it's high time that I present myself. I'm not as noob as I can be in the forums. Yes, I don't know Android, since electronics isn't my field of working anymore. I have studied electronics and went for a master in Engineering Physics so I'm not a newbie when it comes to hardware.
Just that I got this (stupid?) 30-year crisis and went for an MD instead.
My foremost field of working has been Unix, but I'm schooled in lower levels and had done both VHDL/Erlang projects and have been really fluent in asm. But that was a LONG time ago when Motorola 68xxx was the ruler (oh, the ****ing best cpu ever made code-wise).
The aversion and stop for asm-coding came with Inter and that was around the 486-time when you had to fiddle with the memory and stuff.
I have kept parts on my knowledge. Did a SOC for a big company with a linux that I pressed in on 128 kb of Rom but I'm not up to date with arm-asm and I can say that the last time I ever coded something was around 1996 since I started with design/capacity planning of hardware and management.
So the time has flown by. I'm a C-coder. Never coded a line of Java in my line. I'm also from Sweden and I don't know where you are from but if you are from USA we have quite some different rules here, especially when it comes to consumer law that can be used for us.
Ok. Enough **** about me.
I called Samsung today and this is a summary of the conversation I had.
I asked them about why the consumers had to use the Knox and how to pass it as a developer.
He could not answer it.
I asked if I trip the flag, why does it forbid me to sideload my own developed applications?
He could not answer it.
I asked how to remove it since as a consumer I had no use for it and this is something that I have not signed up for.
He said that I could send in my phone and have it reflashed to a lower version of the firmware.
I asked for specifications about it and said that knew it's a SE-linux containter (because it is).
That he could confirm.
I asked him what for specifications for the boot loader since it hinders me in my work.
He said that the only thing he could provide was a downgraded one (see above)
I said that I don't want a downgraded one since all use 4.3 and that is the future.
He could not provide that.
I said that maybe this is a deal that Samsung has done with NSA to provide them with information since I don't know what the phone sends out since I'm locked out of the kernel.
He said that he understood that he would feel the same sentiment.
I asked him if consider us who are developing on a low lever as valuable people the brings the phone forward.
He agreed.
I told him that I don't consider tripping the Know-flag to invalidate my warranty since it could be tripped in Kies (as reported here).
He agreed on that and told me that I could then contact the service for a reflash.
I told him that the option left then would be to crack the boot-loader as with the rooting.
He said yes.
Note that this is in Sweden. But the info in any case is interesting since he very well knew about this.
So the info I got. Yes. It's a Se-linux container and it is reflashable. Since it's reflashable we now know that it's not an e-Fuse and can leave that question. Since it's software it's crackable.
Seems high time for me to start to update myself on arm-asm. I got lazy with VHDL/Erlang
Also, this has not been the field of my quite messy life. Going from electronics to computers and Unix towards medicine.
I don't have a J-TAG. What do you guys use? What have you found so far?
Do we have access to the very beginning of the boot strapping?
With that I mean the first asm-lines that the phone do as a start. Is that hardware or is that software?
In this case. Could someone please provide me with that. As I said. I don't know Arm-asm yet, but I'll try to freshen myself. Asm is asm and the last thing I did with Arm was working with a Xlinix that had 2 cores in the die and then a VHDL-part. Really nifty. But that was 10 years ago.
My other problem is time, like you all, since I'm guessing you work full time.
But can someone update me or give me links to white-papers etc on how the phone starts? I guess there is quite little about it. It's not the glorious days where you could get papers on the clock-penalties and how revolutionary it was when you could do an instruction on both the edges of the clock-wave.
Sorry. I type a lot, but I really hate this and yes, people can say what they want. When Ericsson still made phones I had a special firmware that showed a LOT more then what a normal user would get and how chatty the phones are without us knowing. So the option of spreading the "Samsung has made a deal with NSA" WILL scare people whatever you think. I have done "activist" things before and you just have to present it as a theory and get to the point where the rumor will get viral.
I was truly amazed when my complaint against RIIA went viral and the "Govermental institution for internet privacy" got over 5000 complaints in one day. Don't know how that works in other countries but every document that you send here is official and need to be filed. We also have the reverse policy that seems to be a bit unique. Everything is open until it's classified as not public. Not otherwise as it seems in most countries.
Ok, off topic. You have to live with that if you want my help that I'm offering here.
Where are you know in the dissaembly of the boot-loader? SE-linux CAN be cracked but if t's scrabled with hardware it makes it a bit harder.
Ok, enough from me. Want me to start to dig with the Cortex-chip? I know that Qualcom are more then happy to provide white-papers on their chip. Just a matter of cost.
/Paul
Download the open source kernel and build it from source. Use ida for analysis and the qualcomm and Samsung boot procedure documents are around you have to search though.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Surge1223 said:
Download the open source kernel and build it from source. Use ida for analysis and the qualcomm and Samsung boot procedure documents are around you have to search though.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, I've seen that some use a modded build-chain for it. Is that just modded for speed or what is modded and where can you get it?
/Paul
Btw, got a i9506 today. Will be interesting. Also got An Note 3 and that has 4.3. Both are "pre-knoxed". Need a good burn-in software before i start to root them. Know any?
I have not noticed this behavior before but although they are connected to a Wifi they still search every 15 s or so for others. I don't recall if my old one did that? My HTC doesn't.
But anyone now how the phone boots-strap? It's too late after having a kernel.
Since it makes it before it loads it, it's not a real SE-kernel because then the custom ones would work without even touching Know, would they. And they trip the flag.
So the check must be done earlier? Besides, are the kernel sources enforcing MAC? I have not set up a build env yet so that's all the questions.
And any good J-Tag that you recommend?
Double post. Don't know how to remove...
You might send it in, if yours is qfused like the ATT model they will have to resign the MDL bootloader with a certificate that has not been invalidated by the qfuse.
If they do that, you can extract it and we will atleast be able to flash back the i9505.
Sent from my i337 MF3 using tapatalk.
TheEgonSpengler said:
You might send it in, if yours is qfused like the ATT model they will have to resign the MDL bootloader with a certificate that has not been invalidated by the qfuse.
If they do that, you can extract it and we will atleast be able to flash back the i9505.
Sent from my i337 MF3 using tapatalk.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you still think it's actually an e-fuse? If they can "reflash" it as I got the info yesterday that means that the e-fuse is in the prom because how else could they just change it?
I'm still not sure about the fuse thing? Do we have that black on white that it's the case?
Because I think that they have just a small SE-Linux in the bootloader and then they can enforce all the rules they want. Your phone will behave
basically like a jailed Unix-account and the only success in cracking it is to prevent it to load. There is no other way.
I just sent a long and nice mail to Samsung. Will see if they contact me tomorrow.
I basically asked them why it's enforced on us private citizens and if we should start to openly question the motives on Samsung in different
mobile user forums. Because I will. Would be happy if someone would follow suit and help out.
Bad publicity is something that is hard to get rid off. Also, we never got an opt-in/out.
And if they start to get it it WILL scare them. I've done that before but not on this scale.
If need be I will drag them through our Consumer department. They are not so fun if they bite on the case and it just cost me time to write a letter of complaint to them.
"Freedom loving" Sweden will not accept spy-ware on their phones. That is one of the strong thing here. Consumer power and the equivalent for governmental issues.
Well, I'll report tomorrow. Btw, I got my new phone yesterday and it was a I9506.
They don't sell the I9505 anymore and the prel result with plain kernel is that it's about the same speed as Note 3.
absolon_se said:
Do you still think it's actually an e-fuse? If they can "reflash" it as I got the info yesterday that means that the e-fuse is in the prom because how else could they just change it?
I'm still not sure about the fuse thing? Do we have that black on white that it's the case?
Because I think that they have just a small SE-Linux in the bootloader and then they can enforce all the rules they want. Your phone will behave
basically like a jailed Unix-account and the only success in cracking it is to prevent it to load. There is no other way.
I just sent a long and nice mail to Samsung. Will see if they contact me tomorrow.
I basically asked them why it's enforced on us private citizens and if we should start to openly question the motives on Samsung in different
mobile user forums. Because I will. Would be happy if someone would follow suit and help out.
Bad publicity is something that is hard to get rid off. Also, we never got an opt-in/out.
And if they start to get it it WILL scare them. I've done that before but not on this scale.
If need be I will drag them through our Consumer department. They are not so fun if they bite on the case and it just cost me time to write a letter of complaint to them.
"Freedom loving" Sweden will not accept spy-ware on their phones. That is one of the strong thing here. Consumer power and the equivalent for governmental issues.
Well, I'll report tomorrow. Btw, I got my new phone yesterday and it was a I9506.
They don't sell the I9505 anymore and the prel result with plain kernel is that it's about the same speed as Note 3.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This link should shed some light on the qfuse situation.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=30781353
I believe this is specifically for the i9506 as the qualcomm chip in yours is a different prefix (though they are very similar in construction to my novice eye, the boot process is still a bit magical to me though so grain of salt all that.)
Sent from my i337 MF3 using tapatalk.
TheEgonSpengler said:
This link should shed some light on the qfuse situation.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=30781353
I believe this is specifically for the i9506 as the qualcomm chip in yours is a different prefix (though they are very similar in construction to my novice eye, the boot process is still a bit magical to me though so grain of salt all that.)
Sent from my i337 MF3 using tapatalk.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually they hotted up the phone quite much: http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=5542&idPhone2=5371
Snapdragon 800, Adreno 330, Krait 400 @ 2,3 Mhz. Antutu places it next to Note 3 so it whops quite much.
Hi everyone!
I just want to share with you guys that I rooted my SGS i9505 with CF root and knox flag was tripped to 0x1.
I flashed the custom rom and i got bootloops and i tired of fixing that issiu. I went to Samsung service center in Dubai and they reflashed the MJ5 stock firmware.
Later when I checked in Download mode Knox flag it was 0x0. I guess I am lucky because I have my warranty back. Sorry for my bad English.
Bishkek said:
Hi everyone!
I just want to share with you guys that I rooted my SGS i9505 with CF root and knox flag was tripped to 0x1.
I flashed the custom rom and i got bootloops and i tired of fixing that issiu. I went to Samsung service center in Dubai and they reflashed the MJ5 stock firmware.
Later when I checked in Download mode Knox flag it was 0x0. I guess I am lucky because I have my warranty back. Sorry for my bad English.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is interesting that they reflashed the stock firmware without negating your warrenty coverage for the tripped knox flag.
The question is were they supposed to do that or did they just screw up?
Thanks for sharing that!
Please follow the next thrilling episode in the Samsung-Zone... --> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=48077682&postcount=1350
And about the reflash. They have offered that to me too if I "happen" to trip the Knox. So e-fuse, no e-fuse. Duck. I don't know what to think anymore.
As someone who's mother accepted the update to MI1 a few days ago, would contacting Samsung be a way to possibly downgrade the baseband?
Where in Samsung would I contact for this?
Sent from my SCH-I545 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
kalestew said:
As someone who's mother accepted the update to MI1 a few days ago, would contacting Samsung be a way to possibly downgrade the baseband?
Where in Samsung would I contact for this?
Sent from my SCH-I545 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Goodluck! US Samsung told me to kick rocks. (hence why I am posting from a HTC one now.)
Sent from my One using Tapatalk
Bishkek said:
Hi everyone!
I just want to share with you guys that I rooted my SGS i9505 with CF root and knox flag was tripped to 0x1.
I flashed the custom rom and i got bootloops and i tired of fixing that issiu. I went to Samsung service center in Dubai and they reflashed the MJ5 stock firmware.
Later when I checked in Download mode Knox flag it was 0x0. I guess I am lucky because I have my warranty back. Sorry for my bad English.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
just a few quesitons to you sir.
did you wait for some minutes or did it take some hour?
was it repaired or motherboard simply replaced?
if they reflash the firmware it looks to me they have a "restoreable" that will be reversible if you flash it, just to ask why didn't you ask him what he did
Hi,
Here's a unique idea.
Let's pass the word to boycott Samsung over the whole KNOX fiasco.
Use social media, ie. twitter, facebook, etc. to pass the word.
Tell everyone you know not to buy a Samsung phone this holiday season.
The only thing that will make companies take notice is if we take action.
1. Just the attempt to downgrade firmware or load unauthorized firmware triggers KNOX in 4.3 and voids your warranty.
2. Now that's not bad enough, because even if you now load a signed piece of firmware KNOX still stays triggered.
3. If my warranty is now void, I should be able to do what I want, but nooooo, my bootloader is still locked and I have no warranty.
So Samsung should fix this. Just trying to do something should not void my warranty, especially since they block the possibility of being able to change the bootloader.
This is not Samsung's device.
Everyone does not need nor want KNOX and those that need it, know it.
The majority of devices are not enterprise, so why are they forcing an enterprise and NSA solution down our throats!
BOYCOTT SAMSUNG!!!
tech_head said:
Hi,
Here's a unique idea.
Let's pass the word to boycott Samsung over the whole KNOX fiasco.
Use social media, ie. twitter, facebook, etc. to pass the word.
Tell everyone you know not to buy a Samsung phone this holiday season.
The only thing that will make companies take notice is if we take action.
1. Just the attempt to downgrade firmware or load unauthorized firmware triggers KNOX in 4.3 and voids your warranty.
2. Now that's not bad enough, because even if you now load a signed piece of firmware KNOX still stays triggered.
3. If my warranty is now void, I should be able to do what I want, but nooooo, my bootloader is still locked and I have no warranty.
So Samsung should fix this. Just trying to do something should not void my warranty, especially since they block the possibility of being able to change the bootloader.
This is not Samsung's device.
Everyone does not need nor want KNOX and those that need it, know it.
The majority of devices are not enterprise, so why are they forcing an enterprise and NSA solution down our throats!
BOYCOTT SAMSUNG!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was going to say a lot of the obvious, but let's just say this is um admirable.
tech_head said:
Hi,
Here's a unique idea.
Let's pass the word to boycott Samsung over the whole KNOX fiasco.
Use social media, ie. twitter, facebook, etc. to pass the word.
Tell everyone you know not to buy a Samsung phone this holiday season.
The only thing that will make companies take notice is if we take action.
1. Just the attempt to downgrade firmware or load unauthorized firmware triggers KNOX in 4.3 and voids your warranty.
2. Now that's not bad enough, because even if you now load a signed piece of firmware KNOX still stays triggered.
3. If my warranty is now void, I should be able to do what I want, but nooooo, my bootloader is still locked and I have no warranty.
So Samsung should fix this. Just trying to do something should not void my warranty, especially since they block the possibility of being able to change the bootloader.
This is not Samsung's device.
Everyone does not need nor want KNOX and those that need it, know it.
The majority of devices are not enterprise, so why are they forcing an enterprise and NSA solution down our throats!
BOYCOTT SAMSUNG!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For your #1, how did you load unauthorized firmware?
I don't understand your #2...what "piece of firmware"?
How do you know it voids your warranty? Did you have issues with the warranty?
Sent from my SCH-I545 using xda app-developers app
I really doubt something like this would work. The only people on board would be those of us who mod, which make up such a small portion of Samsung's sales, they wouldn't care. The general consumer is where they get their money and said general consumer couldn't care less about Knox.
prshosting.org
Tell your friends and family. Word of mouth is huge.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
Samsung sold 213 million phones in 2012.
Two things...
1) Though XDA and all seems huge, only a really really small percentage of cell phone users play around with crap that will effect knox. I doubt a large number of those "don't care" people are going to want join your campaign.
2) There are a lot of great things about Samsung phones and products. It's like people complaining about VZW cost and billing and marketing, but they have great coverage and I'd never switch because someone starts a "boycot Verizon for $$ reasons".
I don't like the S4 lockdown either, but I'd rather have a locked S4 than an unlocked G2.
JeeperDon said:
I don't like the S4 lockdown either, but I'd rather have a locked S4 than an unlocked G2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure I'd agree with this. At the same time o hate Samsung, I'd have a Motorola phone if I wouldn't have had to upgrade when I did. Kind of screwed me.
SirHoover2010 said:
Not sure I'd agree with this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You don't have to.
JeeperDon said:
You don't have to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea ik. Exactly why I put "at the same time I hate Samsung" so I'm kind of biased
They can make lock downs most of this is to stop forms of piracy in my opinion. I'm new to rooting but I'm from the modding scene. I have no worries do to developers here as I do on game system modding. Give them time nintendo,Sony and Microsoft have done similiar things with updates the push regularly to their gaming consoles and boycoting will not work do to the modding group is a small group that has a small impact they already planned on loosing.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using xda app-developers app
Boycott yourself, this would defeat the purpose of "DEVELOPER" phones...you knew what you were getting into when buying a consumer s4.
When will people think logically? Samsung wants security. They sell the developer phones completely unlocked for US.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using xda app-developers app
Knox is high security put on the phone as a bid to gain military contracts. They only want the most secure phones. Do you think Samsung will stop trying to get that military high $$$ over a few people saying they won't buy anymore? Also add to this many corporate businesses that buy bulk phones and contracts and want a more secure phone for their Exchange and corporate software. XDA users are barely a ripple in that ocean of waves.
you should have bought a developer edition if locked bootloader was a concern.
Sent from my XT1080 using xda app-developers app
not that it matters but i believe a korean family controls 46% of samsung husband wife and 3 kids. just saying.
eklipz3 said:
not that it matters but i believe a korean family controls 46% of samsung husband wife and 3 kids. just saying.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay, so you're going to tell their kids that their daddy is a bad man for locking bootloaders? Tell their kids they won't get Christmas presents if they don't get their parents to unlock bootloaders?
orangechoochoo said:
Okay, so you're going to tell their kids that their daddy is a bad man for locking bootloaders? Tell their kids they won't get Christmas presents if they don't get their parents to unlock bootloaders?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The kids don't care. They have the Developers Edition.
orangechoochoo said:
Okay, so you're going to tell their kids that their daddy is a bad man for locking bootloaders? Tell their kids they won't get Christmas presents if they don't get their parents to unlock bootloaders?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sorry i should have made myself a little more clear about the kids but they are adults as well and are vp's and such of samsung and i think the oldest girl was just promoted to run some part of sammy. and yes i bet there's is not locked.
eklipz3 said:
sorry i should have made myself a little more clear about the kids but they are adults as well and are vp's and such of samsung and i think the oldest girl was just promoted to run some part of sammy. and yes i bet there's is not locked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Umm...yeah...because the international versions are not locked...neither is Sprint...it is a carrier request to lock bootloaders on Samsung phones, otherwise all phones would be locked. Locked bootloaders and Knox are not the same thing. This thread states it is about Knox. True that Knox in the bootloader prevents you from downgrading the firmware...but does not equal locked. There are many phones with locked bootloaders but no Knox.
Batttie said:
you should have bought a developer edition if locked bootloader was a concern.
Sent from my XT1080 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not just about a locked bootloader.
If that was all, no issues.
KNOX and SE Linux are now baked in from the bootloader up.
No it was not on my phone when I first got my phone and was not detailed before they rolled it out.
Messing with the bootloader in anyway even an attempted downgrade, void your warranty.
Not tampering by using unauthorized software, but just trying to go to an older version of *SIGNED* firmware will void your warranty.
My issue is this, if my warranty is now void, why can't I install any *SIGNED* firmware that came on the phone?
I'm trying to use a phone that will not boot up. I think that there's a good chance that reinstalling all of the original software on the phone will bring it back to operational. I could quickly jump in and follow some directions on the dozens or hundreds of sites out there providing instructions to do this, but I want some sort of guarantee that the software is legit and does not contain malware. Is there any assurance out there, or does everyone just cross their fingers and trust random strangers on the internet? Does Motorola provide any checksum hashes for their firmware, so that one can use them to verify the authenticity of so-called 'stock' software? Or is there a way to download the firmware directly from Motorola?
You cannot escape NSA ...deal with it
lummujaj said:
You cannot escape NSA ...deal with it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I can say "thanks for the bump", at least...
Depending on the device and carrier you should be able to get the stock os. Anything other then that is a leap of faith.
zelendel said:
Depending on the device and carrier you should be able to get the stock os. Anything other then that is a leap of faith.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a Verizon Motorola Razr HD (XT926). I haven't tried going out to Verizon yet to see if they would flash it. I kind of figured they'd just be like "we can't do anything, but sell you a new phone", even though they could potentially reload the software -- there would just be no money in it for them. I have read where others having the same issue have said Verizon would not help them. It wouldn't hurt to try going to them, though. Do you know of any way I could do it, myself, in a way that would have a high confidence in security? Thanks for your response, zelendel.
Pulseczar1 said:
It's a Verizon Motorola Razr HD (XT926). I haven't tried going out to Verizon yet to see if they would flash it. I kind of figured they'd just be like "we can't do anything, but sell you a new phone", even though they could potentially reload the software -- there would just be no money in it for them. I have read where others having the same issue have said Verizon would not help them. It wouldn't hurt to try going to them, though. Do you know of any way I could do it, myself, in a way that would have a high confidence in security? Thanks for your response, zelendel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sure the stock software is somewhere. You will just have to track it down either on vz site or moto