First, this is not a post to bash the mods, keep that BS elseware as I would like this to be actually read and taken seriously.
Second, to the mods, I understand this could have been sent as a PM but I am not willing to speak for everyone else so I am hoping this gives us an open mature forum to discuss this.
On to my point.
I just read a thread that was closed as "useless banter" because people should "read the threads" about roms before they install them. While I agree with the sentiment I can tell you I nearly always read these threads as they are sources of information that only someone who has read the whole thread, and or run a certain rom may know. This is how I narrow my search for a rom that is good for me. Once I have a feel for what is out there, then I pick a few roms, read about them, and finally try them.
When I first bought my galaxy S3 the first thing I did was to search for "best rom" threads, and from there narrowed down what I wanted. I quickly learned which roms were AoSP and which were stock etc. From there I was able to narrow it down to a couple roms, I wanted stock so I lost no functionality and stability. Over and over "cleanrom" was very clearly what I wanted, so I read about it in the original thread, and checked a couple roms, eventually I did in fact go with cleanrom.
When I bought my note 2 I did the exact same thing, even though Cleanrom was already established I found Beans was pretty similar and read about it.
Later I installed Beans and it just was not for me, so to this day I am still on cleanrom, however I have been "shopping" for a new rom for a while (Scott is no longer developing for the Note 2 after all) and to my dismay I find these threads being closed.
My point is this, there is no way I was going to read more than a couple rom threads with over 3 thousand bloody replies. I have owned the Note 2 long enough that now and then I get around to reading about some of the other roms, but I still have only scratched the serface. As I quoted before the "best rom" threads have been noted as "useless" however one of the first things I look for in a rom is one that is actually based on Verizon's firmware. I do this because not one international rom is fully functional. This is not a dig on them, it is just fact. No one has gotten MMS or signal extenders to work right. You can go through any thread and this question is asked on so many roms so many times it is ridiculous. Personally I much prefer to come to a "best rom" thread and find out what kind of roms are based on stock VZW than have to search through 10 roms looking for the answer... this does not even take into account that half the time I come to XDA lately the search box is missing (does that happen to anyone else?)
Again, I would really like this to be a flame free thread, if you agree with me, well state your reasons nicely, if you don't, please do the same. And on a side note, If the mods feel this thread is inappropriate they will let me know and or close the thread they really don't need your help telling me so
Well Said. While agreeing to show full respect for the Mods and their way of doing things, I could not agree more with you. I find "best rom" threads to be incredibly helpful and have never tried a rom that I didn't get pointed to from one.
They don't have them because it's not a ROM competition nor a site for users. It's for developers. If you've been around the Android game, you have to know how minor group MMS and network extender bugs are, almost not worth mentioning compared to even trying to run CyanogenMod on some phones (including ours!). If you want to be a user on this site, you're expected to do the research. The ROM's built on our SCH-I605VRAMC3 base make it clear they're built on it. Even if the base isn't clear, this stuff is all open-source! Dive into the github and figure it out. If that isn't something you feel you should be expected to do, don't use a development site.
joshm.1219 said:
They don't have them because it's not a ROM competition nor a site for users. It's for developers. If you've been around the Android game, you have to know how minor group MMS and network extender bugs are, almost not worth mentioning compared to even trying to run CyanogenMod on some phones (including ours!). If you want to be a user on this site, you're expected to do the research. The ROM's built on our SCH-I605VRAMC3 base make it clear they're built on it. Even if the base isn't clear, this stuff is all open-source! Dive into the github and figure it out. If that isn't something you feel you should be expected to do, don't use a development site.[/QUOT
While you make a couple good points, I think to box this site (XDA) in as only a "developers" web sight is stupid. There is so much more in these forums. I've been part of XDA since 2009, and I see you've been a member for a few months now. While I am sure you have contributed a truck load in your time and I have just really been on the outside looking in, I have been reading these forums far longer then you have and the majority of posts in these forums are people like me looking for help from people like you. And I will continue to say, that while I respect the decision to ban these types of posts, I think it's a mistake, when you can simply say "what kind of rom are you guys using" and all of sudden it's ok. IT's the same thing. I guess we'll just agree to disagree in the usefullness of these types of posts.
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You can tell by my low post count im a search button junkie. I too enjoy some of those best rom threads.
The biggest problem I guess I had with that threads closing was the reason.
Yes this is a Dev website, but thats a General discussion section. And thats about as general a topic as you can get. I guess if its worded like "I really like ROMxxxx" and a discussion starts comparing or recommendations for other roms is okay. But blatantly asking what rom is your fav isnt acceptable?
Also.. if those thread's are killed, ill be reading about how great v1 of beans is and nothing about v21.
Love the site.. mods will run it how they see fit.. just wanted to chime in, back to lurking.
Cheers
vballrkc said:
joshm.1219 said:
They don't have them because it's not a ROM competition nor a site for users. It's for developers. If you've been around the Android game, you have to know how minor group MMS and network extender bugs are, almost not worth mentioning compared to even trying to run CyanogenMod on some phones (including ours!). If you want to be a user on this site, you're expected to do the research. The ROM's built on our SCH-I605VRAMC3 base make it clear they're built on it. Even if the base isn't clear, this stuff is all open-source! Dive into the github and figure it out. If that isn't something you feel you should be expected to do, don't use a development site.[/QUOT
While you make a couple good points, I think to box this site (XDA) in as only a "developers" web sight is stupid. There is so much more in these forums. I've been part of XDA since 2009, and I see you've been a member for a few months now. While I am sure you have contributed a truck load in your time and I have just really been on the outside looking in, I have been reading these forums far longer then you have and the majority of posts in these forums are people like me looking for help from people like you. And I will continue to say, that while I respect the decision to ban these types of posts, I think it's a mistake, when you can simply say "what kind of rom are you guys using" and all of sudden it's ok. IT's the same thing. I guess we'll just agree to disagree in the usefullness of these types of posts.
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I've been doing this since the OG Droid, I didn't feel I knew enough to have input until a few months ago. I could really care less if there is best ROM threads or not, but I'm not going to complain about it because they are absolutely not needed. They only serve to reveal subjective opinions and limit new users from using ROM's that might not be as popular or are from newer developers. For example, MIUI-TW is a great great ROM but requires APN edits and more set-up to work compared to something easy like Beans, so it will never be as popular. Now for a new user to come in and never even bother to look at it because of this limits the appreciation that that developer deserves for even getting MIUI ported to our model. It also limits the learning on the side of the new user because they won't try that ROM assuming it sucks rather than it's simply not as easy to set-up as an aroma rom is. All I'm saying is that it's called XDA developers for a reason, it's a great source of information for everyone, but don't expect it to be catered to anyone outside of the development community or complain when it isn't. I'm more than happy it's public, the devs make their work public & free, and then most of the time go out of their way to help the rest of us. I don't need to ask for anything else.
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joshm.1219 said:
vballrkc said:
I've been doing this since the OG Droid, I didn't feel I knew enough to have input until a few months ago. I could really care less if there is best ROM threads or not, but I'm not going to complain about it because they are absolutely not needed. They only serve to reveal subjective opinions and limit new users from using ROM's that might not be as popular or are from newer developers. For example, MIUI-TW is a great great ROM but requires APN edits and more set-up to work compared to something easy like Beans, so it will never be as popular. Now for a new user to come in and never even bother to look at it because of this limits the appreciation that that developer deserves for even getting MIUI ported to our model. It also limits the learning on the side of the new user because they won't try that ROM assuming it sucks rather than it's simply not as easy to set-up as an aroma rom is. All I'm saying is that it's called XDA developers for a reason, it's a great source of information for everyone, but don't expect it to be catered to anyone outside of the development community or complain when it isn't. I'm more than happy it's public, the devs make their work public & free, and then most of the time go out of their way to help the rest of us. I don't need to ask for anything else.
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Your reason is also a good reason to have such threads. A new person not very experienced probably wouldnt want to start with an advanced rom install. However reading about it in a new thread might also help that person decide to try it because someone posted how easy or worthwhile it was to go through the editing or additional steps to install.
And by posting questions of this nature here, in the general section allows us.. the users of those roms, these forums, to answer those questions for devs, and moderators.
Cheers
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boomerbsg said:
Your reason is also a good reason to have such threads. A new person not very experienced probably wouldnt want to start with an advanced rom install. However reading about it in a new thread might also help that person decide to try it because someone posted how easy or worthwhile it was to go through the editing or additional steps to install.
And by posting questions of this nature here, in the general section allows us.. the users of those roms, these forums, to answer those questions for devs, and moderators.
Cheers
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That's what the threads are for lol. I mean you just listed exactly what they are. There's an OP with installation instructions. then a bunch of users praising or criticizing the ROM along with answering questions for the devs.
How would jumbling up all of that into one thread be better than separating it into a thread for each ROM?
Sent from my SCH-I605 using xda premium 2 beta
joshm.1219 said:
That's what the threads are for lol. I mean you just listed exactly what they are. There's an OP with installation instructions. then a bunch of users praising or criticizing the ROM along with answering questions for the devs.
How would jumbling up all of that into one thread be better than separating it into a thread for each ROM?
Sent from my SCH-I605 using xda premium 2 beta
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check this thread out:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2382148
Its someone talking about how much they like the stock rom, but want features from other roms on the stock rom. in the first page theres 2 rom makers pimping their roms.. and for good reason, their good roms. And do what the OP wants.
Then I actually learned something I didnt know about Beans and Xposed from that brief thread (that is nearly identical to what goes on in "Best rom" threads.
I didnt know about the Xposed framework, and that there are modules for it, theres no link nor real info on Beans main forum post here and Beans thread is 1900 pages deep.
So I got some good info from a small thread that by the very standard that killed off Best Rom threads, I probably would have gone much longer without knowing had it too been closed.
I get the need to maintain the standard on a forum, but thats the heart of any forum.. discussion, and much like life it gets repetitive in nature but its out of those that people new and old can learn things they didn't before. Someone may not be as experienced in Google-fu like us.
cheers
boomerbsg said:
check this thread out:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2382148
Its someone talking about how much they like the stock rom, but want features from other roms on the stock rom. in the first page theres 2 rom makers pimping their roms.. and for good reason, their good roms. And do what the OP wants.
Then I actually learned something I didnt know about Beans and Xposed from that brief thread (that is nearly identical to what goes on in "Best rom" threads.
I didnt know about the Xposed framework, and that there are modules for it, theres no link nor real info on Beans main forum post here and Beans thread is 1900 pages deep.
So I got some good info from a small thread that by the very standard that killed off Best Rom threads, I probably would have gone much longer without knowing had it too been closed.
I get the need to maintain the standard on a forum, but thats the heart of any forum.. discussion, and much like life it gets repetitive in nature but its out of those that people new and old can learn things they didn't before. Someone may not be as experienced in Google-fu like us.
cheers
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Xposed is talked about all the time in beans thread. it's a long thread but it just repeats itself over and over. Search is your friend. idk how you expect a best ROM thread to be able to give you more detailed definition about a single ROM. you're assuming that because you happened to catch something basic (Xposed has been on the front page of this site for months and is one of the biggest things to happen in the rooting community this year) in a small thread rather than a big one that it would be easier for you to gather information from a best ROM thread that instead of containing info for one ROM, contains info for all of them and would be a hell of a lot longer than beans ROM thread.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using xda premium 2 beta
All users need to familiarize themselves with the links in my signature below.
But more importantly, see this post http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=16682226&postcount=2441
We do appreciate all the wonderful users here in XDA - but! ... This site IS about development, developers, and the journey of said development. Users accepted these rules when they accepted MEMBERSHIP. XDA did not ask you to join, you asked XDA to join and we allowed you to come in.
This is not a support site, nor is this a social media site where people want to know about your feelings and all that stuff. Thus, folks asking about best roms lends toward the site being about support, if XDA allowed it, the site would be full of individual posts asking and no one would ever read or search, which are expectations of members here.
We do, however, allow some off -topic banter so users form alliances and hopefully that better serves development. Other than that, users are expected ALWAYS to follow posting rules.
Related
I have been a member of XDA some time now. In the time that I have been a member I have used various forums from the Wizard thru the Raphael. I am seeing a transformation in the forum that I think we need to correct. When I first joined, the board was very different from the way it is today. The posts were more technical in nature, with people offering suggestions and posting not only the bugs they found with the ROM’s, but sometimes the fix as well. I feel that the Raphael forum has strayed far from that, to the point where people are just posting and waiting for the chefs to fix everything. I am not saying everyone does that, but it is the majority. There are two things I am concerned about. One, chefs are leaving from being burned out or simply not having the time to keep up with all the requests, Second, the quality of the ROMs. See, if we help the chefs by either resolving our own issues or helping them with bug resolution they will have more time for improvements and refinement. This will lead to the fastest most stable ROMs possible. I think the community needs to go back to the times when people were a little hesitant to just post anything, and actually do research and troubleshooting before bugging the chefs. Any and all comments would be appreciated, either agreeing or disagreeing with me.
-McMex
Amen to that! could not agree with you more....
the problem is that flashing ROMs are too easy now, the tools are too useful, and these VERY powerful tools are now in the hands of kids too immature to research for themselves
I agree with you McMexican. Just had an issue in the Blackstone forum over this exact issue you mention here.
P1Tater said:
Here's the issue with XDA lately and it's not just this thread that it's happening. The problem is that everyone reports a bug but noone tries to assist in fixing it. Everyone expects the cook to be all-knowing and be able to fix himself. However, these people have lives as well. They have families and jobs and don't have 24 hours in a day to just sit here on the thread and wait for people to report bugs so they have something to do. So, everyone complains, cries and whines about their issues and never once says what apps they have installed, uninstalled, what regs they have changed or files they have added or deleted and then wonder why the chef doesn't have the issue and why he can't fix it. Then when the chef gets upset. Then, when they do get upset then the "Thank You's" come. Did it ever occur to anyone to thank the chef when the rom worked? No, when it works you don't post and when it doesn't work you post complaints. I wonder why the chef's get upset . Just think about it.
What should happen is if it works, thank the chef or contribute. Damn, even a Thank You goes a long way. If you are having issues, maybe just maybe, report the issue, what you have tried, whatt apps you have installed and what you have uninstalled. Ususally when a chef cooks a rom, they don't install apps to the rom because everything they use is cooked in. Believe it or not, some apps will absolutely kill a rom.
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This is what I posted in that thread but it seems as though it is worth mentioning here as this discusses the exact same issue we seem to be having all over XDA lately.
Agree
I agree with this partly although I'm not sure this is the right place to post it.
Its a free forum and in its nature you will nearly always get this type of thing.
Yes it does burn out alot of the chef's but they also have lives that take on different directions as time moves on and so they come and go.
The bug reporting with no solution must be really pissing our chefs off and it is not just for roms.. I'm seeing it with software enhancements too.
At its core this is still by far the best forum for our devices. I believe XDA has always developed the best ROMS & enhancements for our devices and often take them to places the original manufacturers would never have dreamed of.
I just don't know how something like this can be policed. Nearly all the guys post in their first post something about not asking dumb questions but yet they still get them.
The ones that really piss me off are something like "Just flashed and now blah won't work" with absolutely no details at all.
What I do is leave the 'dumb questions' to the other users of my ROM to answer.. I find the userbase to be generally savvy enough to answer its own questions
The ones that I feel the userbase will not be able to answer easily or in a timely fashion, I post an answer for
It's not that I wouldn't like to have the time to sit there and answer all the 'dumb questions', but my time is better spent doing other things.. and the users don't seem to mind helping each other generally, when it's within their knowledge..
Then again my ROM is a little more hands-on than others, so i've already eliminated a good amount of the 'newbies' by it not being quite so easy to flash
mcmexican said:
I have been a member of XDA some time now. In the time that I have been a member I have used various forums from the Wizard thru the Raphael. I am seeing a transformation in the forum that I think we need to correct. When I first joined, the board was very different from the way it is today. The posts were more technical in nature, with people offering suggestions and posting not only the bugs they found with the ROM’s, but sometimes the fix as well. I feel that the Raphael forum has strayed far from that, to the point where people are just posting and waiting for the chefs to fix everything. I am not saying everyone does that, but it is the majority. There are two things I am concerned about. One, chefs are leaving from being burned out or simply not having the time to keep up with all the requests, Second, the quality of the ROMs. See, if we help the chefs by either resolving our own issues or helping them with bug resolution they will have more time for improvements and refinement. This will lead to the fastest most stable ROMs possible. I think the community needs to go back to the times when people were a little hesitant to just post anything, and actually do research and troubleshooting before bugging the chefs. Any and all comments would be appreciated, either agreeing or disagreeing with me.
-McMex
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P1Tater said:
I agree with you McMexican. Just had an issue in the Blackstone forum over this exact issue you mention here.
Originally Posted by P1Tater
Here's the issue with XDA lately and it's not just this thread that it's happening. The problem is that everyone reports a bug but noone tries to assist in fixing it. Everyone expects the cook to be all-knowing and be able to fix himself. However, these people have lives as well. They have families and jobs and don't have 24 hours in a day to just sit here on the thread and wait for people to report bugs so they have something to do. So, everyone complains, cries and whines about their issues and never once says what apps they have installed, uninstalled, what regs they have changed or files they have added or deleted and then wonder why the chef doesn't have the issue and why he can't fix it. Then when the chef gets upset. Then, when they do get upset then the "Thank You's" come. Did it ever occur to anyone to thank the chef when the rom worked? No, when it works you don't post and when it doesn't work you post complaints. I wonder why the chef's get upset . Just think about it.
What should happen is if it works, thank the chef or contribute. Damn, even a Thank You goes a long way. If you are having issues, maybe just maybe, report the issue, what you have tried, whatt apps you have installed and what you have uninstalled. Ususally when a chef cooks a rom, they don't install apps to the rom because everything they use is cooked in. Believe it or not, some apps will absolutely kill a rom.
This is what I posted in that thread but it seems as though it is worth mentioning here as this discusses the exact same issue we seem to be having all over XDA lately.
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I absolutely agree. Both of these posts describe the reality of the situation. Back in the wizard days for the most part only people pushing the edge of technology bought the windows mobile PDA phones. The same appled to the hermes for the most part. When I moved to the tilt the tides began to turn. Prices of this type of phone began to be more reasonable based upon the technology. More and more companies bagan pushing mail. The internet became more of a requirement than a novelty. Less and less tech savy users began to purchase. These buyers soon learned winmo had a ton of flaws and came to xda. Some spent the time to learn and have become valuable members of the forum. Many did not. They pop in and want us to be the fix all for thier issues. One prime example is GSleon3. How many tilts did he unbrick for people carelessly flashing tilts. When the Fuze arrived the problem only grew. Ive seen more new members in the last 3 months than my entire time on xda. A few of the new members have really taken the time to learn and contribute. MANY have not. I get at least 15 posts a day in my thread asking questions that are answered multiple times in the thread. I get at least 30 posts per day that could easily be answered in at least 1 thread on xda if not dozens.
Most of the chefs in this forum are pushing the limits with cutting edge builds. Da_G has more or less led the way. It amazes me how many users think everything should work perfectly. With all the easy kitchens and premade OEMs so many people think making a good stable rom is easy.
I commend Da_G on pushing the cooking aspect. Hopefully more will realize its not as easy as they think. Ive been at this for years and I learn something new every day.
Over the past month I have grown more and more discouraged. If rom users would spend that extra few minutes to find a fix I could do so much more.
I do however want to thank all of those that have searched, that have, helped,that have answered questions and have done so much to make mine and other chefs roms better
While I do agree with all of what has been stated, and myself to be considered a "NOOB", I really think it comes down to the individual user. I may have asked a question or two (or 30) that may have been answered already before, but I personally try to search and I do try to find the answers myself when I can. I do try and figure the answers myself, but I just don't have the expertise to do so quite often. But myself, I try to make up for my lack of capabilities by way of PayPal to our grear chefs. Others don't truly understand the amount of work that goes into the cooking of ROMS, I am BARELY tapping into that now. I have been visiting XDA for quite some time now and have seen it grow. Unfortunately the user base has grown very large, and it is hard to manage the forums. With there being so many places to find information in this website, it takes time just to locate the information you need. Sadly, I don't see much change unless you start locking down the members capabilities to post, which would defeat the whole purpose of a community forum. As far as it is for the ROM Chefs, a suggestion for you would to not publicly post your ROMs (except in the case of the kitchens, don't do that, I'm addicted!) right away. Maybe put a password on them upon download and have some filtering system or something and maybe only release the password selectively or something. And have a guideline for posters, like your post must contain this: and if the post doesn't have that, then don't even bother responding. Let's face it, we techies with out the tech knowledge are at the mercy of the chefs!
Site is free but maybe some type of short ban on posting for spammer and those who bug chef after three strikes or so by senior member. A chef doesnt cook for just one person he cooks to what you may like. If you dont like a chef rom try another or just go back to dead stock rom bug your carrier. But my idea might be to much work.
Idea
Radimus said:
and these VERY powerful tools are now in the hands of kids too immature to research for themselves
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Wow, really? Maybe you were a dumb kid, but I'd like to avoid this stereotype.
The users on threads need to stop asking dumb questions, though. I think a rating system should be implemented like on Engadget. That way every time someone makes a dumb post we can demote them and limit their post count per day
The reason why there is so many nOObs posting is that the Raphael has had such a tremendous success at the carrier level. Almost all of the US carriers have picked up the Touch Pro. So it is very reasonable to surmize that the majority of new users are new to windows mobile and completely blown away by the amazing amount of tweaks available for it.
Maybe the best idea is create special forums designed for Senior Members only to comment in. They would be locked to all others to comment on, but visible for all to see. Then create another set of forums for general discussion. I see absolutely no reason a development forum should be open to all anyway. I often think if I read one more "Downloading now!" post I will scream! So again, I would lock just the development and hacking forums to approved members, or at least make all posts be moderated first before they are posted. That will keep the development threads clean.
I would then load up the non development discussion forums and threads with adwords and advertising and give that money back to the real developers. LEt the nOObs pay for development indirectly through advertising.
sammypwns said:
Wow, really? Maybe you were a dumb kid, but I'd like to avoid this stereotype.
The users on threads need to stop asking dumb questions, though. I think a rating system should be implemented like on Engadget. That way every time someone makes a dumb post we can demote them and limit their post count per day
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Is this post really necessary?
Anyway,
I agree with McMex about the types of post but part of the problem is the organization of the information. Idea for you, Subdivide the forum so that the Cooked ROMs could have their own POST that was a sticky and only limited to the Chef for editing (containing information about updates and revisions etc,...). Then maybe create another post for ISSUES ONLY with the Cooked ROM. And then one more for the nonsense that burdens the Chef or other users like me who try and shift through the countless meaningless post by the "can you fix..." crew. This might help keep the organization of the VALUABLE information contained in this forum.
I use XDA to help me stay up on the latest stuff so I can impress the boss and his co-horts into believing that I am a technical wiz (ha!).
Anyway, this is a bit disorganized and polluted but if you take the time to search, read, search some more and read some more you can find a lot of great help here. But it does need some organizing. Maybe if some people would use discretion in posting it might help cut down on the smog, if you know what I mean.
DSmithZ28, I think that we are on the same idea.
Many people here started out as noobs, used what they read, and then became developers. I'm trying to do just that. It would not be helpful to limit what I can see as I would not be able to learn the development process as easily. This wave just has to be ridden out and the community will pick up some more help along the way.
Just thought of this from systematic approach and put it in numbers (guessed at the numbers):
Forum pre-influx:
60% Experienced Members
30% Moderate
9% Noobs
1% Don't know where they are
Forum post-influx
45% Experienced Members
24% Moderate
30% Noobs
1% Still celebrating Obama's election
-What this means is that there aren't enough mid level people ATM to handle all of the tedious questions that the developers shouldn't have to answer. As more noob's gain knowledge, there should be a shift in the paradigm, this will even itself out and lead to another great period for XDA!
One thought, what if there were some type of Pledge or Credo thread that would echo the sentiments of this thread. Make it so the new member cannot post until they've responded "Read and Understood" to that thread.
Whatever happens, I pledge to help people find their answers, as it helps me learn along the way.
I know this probably sounds retarded, but back in the Kasier days, there was a couple of users (Scotchua, McMexican, Mfrazzz, taiser999, crispyj, HDStreetglide, JimmyMcGee, Daveshaw, & rzanolgy just to name a few) who floated around all of the rom threads and answered questions along with giving links and subtle prodding of the search function. Maybe if there were more users who did this, things wouldn't be the way they are today. But it will take more than just a couple of users. It will take the work of everyone. Also, we need more users helping edit the wiki's. These are just a couple of suggestions.
Never a truer word spoken, guys
Definitely agree that the culture's changed around here over the past few years.
I dallied a little with cooking a year ago. I was lucky - I had several people helping me by providing solutions to the problems I had (I'm looking at you McMex there, among others!). Back on the Kaiser, every chef helped each other and there was a hardcore group of users who knew what they were talking about and offered solutions. On the Raphael, we've got an excellent group of chefs co-operating, and there are a few of the hardcore, helpful users but I think they're getting lost in the huge amount of other users who seem to think this is an HTC support forum - they've spent money on their phones and think we owe them!
Have the users changed here, or is it just we've got so many more (unconstructive) users in here that they're being too diluted to see?
My time in the kitchen taught me I was out of my depth, and eternal respect for those people who deserve to be in there!
Maybe a read/search count of couple hundred before you can post in the dev forum? Just a thought. Seems like an easiest solution to implement for now.
@ overjjrk
Lol at the 1% celebrating Obama's election
And back on topic, I vote for a Question and Answers section for every device!
Agreed "at least 100%" to post one.
I started - as everybody did - as a NOOB and somehow I learned fairly good (*cough cough*) how to deal with these devices. I do also try to pick up threads now and then surfing the forum and trying to help (enough praise) but it trips me off BIG TIME that it seems meanwhile that NOOB's barely use the search, have no idea how google is spelled and give up after the first try or EVEN WORSE bump their own threads if the don't receive a quick answer. Good that I can keep my temper but sometimes I'd really like to answer "@@#$%%^&"....
I do like what pages like "blownfuze" or "fuzemobilty" provide for NOOBs because with that information stickies would take at least the first three pages of a subject.
Not sure if it can/will work out but fine tuning the Wiki (without breaking it) may help a bit since we all live from the contributions of each other.
An approach could be a Readme 1st section where either only mods or users willing to take this task, can contribute (guess mods will be overwhelmed since they too have a daytime job) and no replies are allowed.
One of the biggest issues and posts I do see recently is "setup the device to a certain provider". I'm not a cab or software guy but could one of these great people here perhaps come up with an idea to have a CAB which will simply set up the connection setting the that particular provider? There aren't more than 2 dozen major ones world wide so that could bring freedom to the chefs to deal with provider specific settings and keep concentrated on fine tuning a ROM still being open for the whole world.... just one of the ideas.
Let's see how this thread evolves.
how about i just start banning people that don't live in new york?
i think this is a good way to go about things.
Sorry I missed the town hall meeting. I am a noob to Roms and phone moding, I did do a lot with the original xbox back when it was fun to mod. Ok a little off toppic.
One thing that noticed you never looked at is where are your noobs (me) comming in to your site? I have only been looking at roms for about a week. All of the searches that I did about roms and rooting my phone all led me to the "The Bible" and yes where is that located at. Most people will post there they find the information. You might look at moving that post to the general tab as this is going to be one of the first places that a person is going to look to first.
This will also be a place that a noob is going to post so dumb question for the 1,000,000th time. If you expect it, it will not be a bad thing.
And yes I did to a bad flash and spent about 5 hours looking for a way to fix what I did.
Thanks for your time and have a great day/night
Good point. I myself was thinking when I first started to look into flashing ROMs and such and found the bible in the Dev section. The Vibrant Bible has lots of information and should probably be in the General Section as it does draw people to the Dev section instead of General.
Maybe it should be in the Q&A forum as it has lots of both.
One of the biggest problems with this forum seems to be that for a development forum, there is very little actual development going on. Obviously only a select group of people have the knowledge and desire to truly develop custom ROMs, but there's a role others can take too.
I've been involved in other development communities, outside of Android, and I can't recall a community as poisonous as this one. The amount of high level technical discussion is nill. As inexperienced as I am with Android, I can't remember the last post that sent me running to google to read more about something. There seems to be little to no give-and-take between developers, which is typically the most fun of any development group I've been a part of. The goal of working towards any common framework seems non-existant.
The supporters of certain ROMs resemble cults more than critical, helpful users. I can't count the amount of replies I've seen to legitimate questions or criticisms saying nothing more than, "Developer X puts in all this time, so you should just be thankful", or some iteration of that. While possibly true, that's the type of worthless hero worship that provides nothing in a community like this.
Even the individual developer forums are worthless. They're 75% "you're awesome" posts, with the other 25% being bug reports.
Obviously the popularity of XDA has made it a destination for simple support posts in addition to development discussion. I guess that's frustrating, but can be handled through moderation. I know on other forums, if I had nothing to do, I'd sit in the help section and answer posts for a couple hours. I'm sure we've all posted on other forums and received helped we're thankful for. Certainly the level of douchebagery that half the users here show isn't needed.
I don't know. Maybe all Android communities are like this. The fragmentation of the development, even on one divice, definitely doesn't help. But it's not the most enjoyable place to read I've ever found.
This is all you need to know:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=9831517&postcount=3
The town hall closed too soon, closed 5pm eastern time. Sucks for us on the west coast. I was actually typing and clicked send when I noticed the forum already was closed.
scrizz said:
This is all you need to know:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=9831517&postcount=3
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am sorry that is not all that I needed to know. This was a post for an idea that was not brough up in the town hall. yes I did read the full town hall and no it was never said in the full thread. So before you give a link please make sure of the Question.
That is another reason that you get people pissed off. You have people say "this is all that I need to know" but they did not even look at the full question. This was not a question of what happened in the town hall. It was more like please think of this.
The Bilble thread is a great place for people that are new to star reading about what to do and what not to do. but it really does not have a thing to do about develement.
Thanks for all the other posters I enjoyed the coments.
Sadly enough there is much chat in threads.
Even a comparison about the Arc and X10 in a thread about a mod.
Would it be possible to just remove posts that are really off-topic?
15 pages for a thread with <10 really on-topic posts
that's an awful lot of time spent sifting through threads and threads full of crap...
I completely agree. Please somebody do something about this. Start giving out bans. The ratio of crap to actual development talk is at least 10-1. It seriously hinders the ability of the forum to facilitate collaboration on the projects being done.
ralphodog said:
I completely agree. Please somebody do something about this. Start giving out bans. The ratio of crap to actual development talk is at least 10-1. It seriously hinders the ability of the forum to facilitate collaboration on the projects being done.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i've been on xda for quite some time, and i will admit that the x10 forums are the biggest cluster of useless banter, repetitive topics/questions and un-uniformed threads.
however, this is not the mods faults. there are posts for rules, and outlines for thread title structures and thread behavior. however, it seems that a lot of the x10 owners have a hard time following these rules and guidelines.
i can't imagine how anyone new to the game could come here and follow anything as far as learning how to mod their x10.
Just a hint: This might be more effective if it was in the correct forum.
Hard to ***** when you're part of the problem...
kxhawkins said:
Just a hint: This might be more effective if it was in the correct forum.
Hard to ***** when you're part of the problem...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 Especially since the same threads are just as full of these type posts and rude people who take the time and space to ***** rather than just answering someone's question or simply moving on.
wait a second...arent you doing that right now?
Let's just end it here,
no *****ing!
we're all nice people
------------------------------------END OF THREAD----------------------------------
Hi,
I like stuff.
Dienda has a message for ya
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
william0410 said:
wait a second...arent you doing that right now?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True. I am just trying to make the point that there is a lot of both going on. (It seems you got my point...it's borderline hypocrisy)
I find myself in the middle. The only time I get frustrated is when I'm searching for an answer or it's a guide or tutorial. It boils down to time savings.
ffortissimo said:
Sadly enough there is much chat in threads.
Even a comparison about the Arc and X10 in a thread about a mod.
Would it be possible to just remove posts that are really off-topic?
15 pages for a thread with <10 really on-topic posts
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you please report the threads or posts .
As you may know we are not 24/7 on xda and doing this will help a lot.
I'll move this thread since it's in the wrong section
[/QUOTE ]
i can't imagine how anyone new to the game could come here and follow anything as far as learning how to mod their x10.[/QUOTE]
I must count myself as someone who may not be following all the rules. After following the forums for 6 months and having rooted, xrecovery, tweaked build.prop as well as flashing and bricking two phones, I am finding it hard to move onto a newer rom.
The search function on XDA seems to rely mostly on tags. I get better results trying Google. Only 1 of 5 XDA searches even returns any results at all and often not confined to the subforums I wanted. When posting I do check the suggestions that the system shows as related but again it is inaccurate.
Finally the devs have moved to a short form install which has more steps than in the past. At first we had all inclusive roms which updated baseband and 'firmware'. Now we have many that are parts; baseband and firmware can be independent installs. Dual touch can be separated or not. On top of this we have the roms which have the SE apps or not, other OEM apps or interfaces or themes pre-installed. It's confusion for everyone.
The threads started several versions of some of the roms earlier and many posts do not have a relationship anymore to the current version. It's time to trash the thread and start anew with a locked sticky that has only the instructions and current links.
While the devs have made great strides with the instructions, I believe most of the readers here want as few steps as possible without branches and a return to the all-inclusive roms would simplify life for most people instead of trying to figure out what the baseband or preinstalling dual touch or a newer generic SE rom as a prerequisite is needed to get to the rom that we are trying to install.
JMHO.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
Mr. Clown said:
Can you please report the threads or posts .
As you may know we are not 24/7 on xda and doing this will help a lot.
I'll move this thread since it's in the wrong section
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Will do. Thanks, Clown.
stan.s said:
The search function on XDA seems to rely mostly on tags. I get better results trying Google. Only 1 of 5 XDA searches even returns any results at all and often not confined to the subforums I wanted. When posting I do check the suggestions that the system shows as related but again it is inaccurate.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By far the best way to search is going to Google and using "site:http://forum.xda-developers.com X10 Blah blah blah". I don't even bother with the xda search anymore.
stan.s said:
Finally the devs have moved to a short form install which has more steps than in the past. At first we had all inclusive roms which updated baseband and 'firmware'. Now we have many that are parts; baseband and firmware can be independent installs. Dual touch can be separated or not. On top of this we have the roms which have the SE apps or not, other OEM apps or interfaces or themes pre-installed. It's confusion for everyone.
The threads started several versions of some of the roms earlier and many posts do not have a relationship anymore to the current version. It's time to trash the thread and start anew with a locked sticky that has only the instructions and current links.
While the devs have made great strides with the instructions, I believe most of the readers here want as few steps as possible without branches and a return to the all-inclusive roms would simplify life for most people instead of trying to figure out what the baseband or preinstalling dual touch or a newer generic SE rom as a prerequisite is needed to get to the rom that we are trying to install.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not trying to be a ****, but this is xda-developers, not xda-"cool **** for your phone". This is a place for development, and while the community is here to help everyone learn, people get the priorities wrong. There is a time and place for questions (In the Q&A section), and it's NOT the dev threads.
Threads in "Android Development" should be just that; It really hurts everyone when the ROM threads get filled with "How do I flash this?" and "Where's the download for X?". It's not the dev's duty to hold the hand of everyone who doesn't know what xRecovery is. I've installed nearly every ROM for the X10, and I'm sorry, but if you can't figure out how to do it, you shouldn't be in the Android Development forum in the first place.
There are a million threads on how to root, JIT, and flash custom ROMs, yet we still see new "HOW TO SPEED UP UR EXPERIA!!!" and "I want this rom, HOW?" threads every day. It's crazy that people can't read the stickies and ask in the correct forum. The post count restriction for dev forums was a start, but I think we see far too few bans for outright disregard for devs and the forum rules.
This is all JMHO, of course, but I'm sure I'm not alone in these sentiments.
Mr. Clown said:
Can you please report the threads or posts .
As you may know we are not 24/7 on xda and doing this will help a lot.
I'll move this thread since it's in the wrong section
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am glad notice is being taken of the sad trend in some of the xda-developers.com forums. I would humbly like to suggest that a 'report this' tag is included on threads for members to indicate to 'mods' that a particular comment is starting a 'flame war.' Habitual 'flammers' and obnoxious behaviour can then be quickly identified and appropriate action taken against them.
rapatu2010 said:
I am glad notice is being taken of the sad trend in some of the xda-developers.com forums. I would humbly like to suggest that a 'report this' tag is included on threads for members to indicate to 'mods' that a particular comment is starting a 'flame war.' Habitual 'flammers' and obnoxious behaviour can then be quickly identified and appropriate action taken against them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I apologise there is indeed a report 'triangle' but it is rather inconspicous and easily missed. It will be great it is elevated to the same format as the 'Thanks" or 'Qoute' buttons
What's even worse than spam in threads? Threads made *****ing about it.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
chefrichy said:
What's even worse than spam in threads? Threads made *****ing about it.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And posts *****ing about threads *****ing about it.
kxhawkins said:
I'm not trying to be a ****, but this is xda-developers, not xda-"cool **** for your phone". This is a place for development, and while the community is here to help everyone learn, people get the priorities wrong. There is a time and place for questions (In the Q&A section), and it's NOT the dev threads.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure, Q&A section. But it IS xda-cool **** for your phone.
kxhawkins said:
Threads in "Android Development" should be just that; It really hurts everyone when the ROM threads get filled with "How do I flash this?" and "Where's the download for X?". It's not the dev's duty to hold the hand of everyone who doesn't know what xRecovery is. I've installed nearly every ROM for the X10, and I'm sorry, but if you can't figure out how to do it, you shouldn't be in the Android Development forum in the first place.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This contradicts what you've said the in the first segment, we're here to learn, and you can only do that with all the language differences here when clear instructions are listed. Forums/websites all around the world, such as Android Central, Gizmodo/Engadget etc., all point readers to here for many handsets. XDA is NEWS as much as anything else.
kxhawkins said:
There are a million threads on how to root, JIT, and flash custom ROMs, yet we still see new "HOW TO SPEED UP UR EXPERIA!!!" and "I want this rom, HOW?" threads every day. It's crazy that people can't read the stickies and ask in the correct forum. The post count restriction for dev forums was a start, but I think we see far too few bans for outright disregard for devs and the forum rules.
This is all JMHO, of course, but I'm sure I'm not alone in these sentiments.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do understand your frustration with users both personally and professionally- they're a PITA. Unfortunately users are what programmers have to cater to- as cool as something might be as a developer- if it's unusable in a practical way, it's only instructional. If XDA's only for learning there's no need here for device specific forums or even posting roms, just post the code snippets that needed modification to get version x.y.z to work; then we can all make our own variant, after all the android SDK is free and was one of the original ways to sideload a app onto any phone. All of us devs have an Eclipse IDE, etc. only post code to compile and that will keep out the riffraff.
XDA doesn't have a Quality-Assurance group to validate posts or the qualifications of the devs or the roms they present or the instruction sheet. I'm sort of personally suspicious of just putting anything on my phone, as where better to hide something than in a rom, and Android already (as well as GSM itself) have enough security issues. Some of the install instructions have been very vague, and if you, as a dev, know the files you want everyone to try, are not xRecovery compatible or require a particular version of the FlashTool or root or whatever, say so upfront. While "I" know 435 is LATER than 453, 497 and 504, not everyone is familiar with all the x10 roms or knows to go to PTCRB to check which ones end in those numbers; therefore, post the entire firmware and baseband number and avoid that question. RTFM is a very old catchphrase that doesn't apply here since there is no manual since you're writing the manual NOW.
I personally support the locking of the dev threads with links to roms to anyone but the OP. Maybe there should be a "Enduser Firmware to Try" subforum which is readable by all, but only postable by mods/devs with firmware of a high enough quality and the ability to support end-users. I've bricked two phones before there was a way to debrick them that worked.
If devs want money or beer or free space in the cloud that's in my name, be upfront, be clear, be helpful and some percentage of the folks here will reward you just as they would pay DaVinci Wotan, Unlockitnow, et al.
stan.s said:
Sure, Q&A section. But it IS xda-cool **** for your phone.
This contradicts what you've said the in the first segment...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No it isn't, and no it doesn't. There can be room for both (development / learning), but people don't seem to understand the boundaries of either.
I'm not here to argue, just stating my opinion.
For all the Devs in the ASGS2 forum, are you guys finding your rom/kernel threads being clogged up with a bunch of random questions/issues? How would you feel if I made you all each a Q&A thread dedicated to your work in the Q&A forum? Do you feel that would help you/your thread? Please let me know what you think or how you feel, and hit up the poll to cast your vote.
This was done in the Cappy section because they had a minimum post restriction to keep the spoon feeding clutter down in the Dev section. Not sure if that restriction is also in this section. It was only like 10 post minimum though.
I tried to do this manually with Hellraiser, but it hasn't really taken off. To be honest, right now the I777 community isn't the epic cesspool that some other forums are. However over time this could change... But the kinds of users that clutter development threads are the kind who don't bother to go to Q&A threads - so does it really help anything?
we did this over in captivate forums, it worked well.
we did this over in inspire forums, it was met with serious backlash by lazy ass people, and ignorance to change.
tough decision. Entropy has a point, those people wouldnt bother going to a Q&A thread...the Q&A threads should be a place where the users help each other out and raise issues. the dev threads should be there to report ACTUAL issues and request features. what happens is that one person has a problem with flashing the rom and they assume its the devs fault, and the rom is broken, and they report it as a bug....its a vicious cycle that will never end.
Well this forum is for you guys, so if you dont think its needed then I wont worry about it... just trying to help all the great devs out and make things easier if I can.
If you guys have any other suggestions or want to try something out, feel free to say.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using Tapatalk
im no developer but ive been around the forums and have come from a forum with less of a following. the problem is that the people who are asking the question's in the threads are 60-70% of the time dont read directions and will end up posting in the wrong forum anyways.... its a novel idea but i dont think it will take off, unless you lock the rom forum to devs and testers only
tmckenn2 said:
im no developer but ive been around the forums and have come from a forum with less of a following. the problem is that the people who are asking the question's in the threads are 60-70% of the time dont read directions and will end up posting in the wrong forum anyways.... its a novel idea but i dont think it will take off, unless you lock the rom forum to devs and testers only
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That sort of defeats the purpose I think, and I also believe that most Devs here like to have people post in their threads.
Alright guys. Ill keep it the way it already is. If your threads seem to get clogged, or you want your own dedicated Q&A thread, let me know and Ill make the adjustment at that time. Thanks for all your feedback.
I would appreciate it, so far most of the users in this forum are above average when it comes to figuring things out own their own (searching). Only thing is I wish there was more ROM choices/themes.
I don't feel the need for a Q&A thread right now. I find it a bit tedious to follow two threads for my ROMs instead of one. Also, I don't really mind a few redundant questions here and there as long as it doesn't get out of hand, which it hasn't yet.
Pirateghost said:
we did this over in captivate forums, it worked well.
we did this over in inspire forums, it was met with serious backlash by lazy ass people, and ignorance to change.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wasn't a lazy ass or ignorant!!!!
Sent from my SGH-I897 using xda premium
trell959 said:
I wasn't a lazy ass or ignorant!!!!
Sent from my SGH-I897 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol. feelin guilty are ya?
Not a dev, but I do post quite often in both the dev and QA sections. I don't think there should be two threads. It seems it is more effective if there is only one thread dedicated to that rom/modem/kernel, with all bugs and support given out. Of course if you have a more complex issue, it should have it's own thread. But small issues with the rom or questions regarding how something works should be contained in the same thread as the development of the rom.
Blaze9 said:
Not a dev, but I do post quite often in both the dev and QA sections. I don't think there should be two threads. It seems it is more effective if there is only one thread dedicated to that rom/modem/kernel, with all bugs and support given out. Of course if you have a more complex issue, it should have it's own thread. But small issues with the rom or questions regarding how something works should be contained in the same thread as the development of the rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i agree with this, but there tends to be an influx of people posting the same CRAP over and over and over and over in a dev thread. personally i dont give 2 flips about someone saying "THANKS!" or "CANT WAIT TO FLASH THIS!" or "WHEN IS THE NEXT UPDATE?!", i want to see CONSTRUCTIVE criticisms, requests, or logcats. having to filter through all the BS really makes it difficult to discern actual issues from fluff. there tends to be a lot of fluff that happens.
i see the dev threads as being specifically for requests/bug-tracking/break-fixes. the other stuff belongs in a thread where the users can praise, bicker, ask questions repeatedly (how do i flash this?). it should be peers helping out peers, and let the devs work on their stuff. but alas, we will never have utopian bliss....
we are lucky we havent seen much of that at all here in the GS2 forums, but man some of the other forums are riddled with noobery. lets just try to keep it clean and ask our members to mind the rules and understand whats going on.
Yeah... I think as long as things don't become like the Infuse forums where some of the ROM threads became utter nightmares we'll be fine. But let's keep it in our back pocket in case we need it. I may even discontinue my Hellraiser Q&A for the time being.
If there's anything we may need, it may potentially be to split the development forum like the I9100 forums were in order to differentiate ports of other developer's ROMs from actual development. It isn't too bad here yet, but the Infuse forums are chock full of integrated Hellraiser ports and it's difficult to find original development among all of the ports.
I think the definitions for "Original" vs "not original" in the I9100 forums seem to be a bit arbitrary, if we DO ever go that route here I think it needs to be clearer.
"Original" - You yourself have taken a stock ROM (may be stock for another device) and modified it from scratch on the I777. All kernel development can remain here in my opinion. Discussion of actual porting techniques used by the other section can be here.
"Not original" - Another dev creates a ROM for another device, and an I777 user ports it to the I777 via Hellraiser or another technique. e.g. Hellraiser-integrated ROMs and such.
We don't need this yet here but we may - and honestly the Infuse forums need it.
Red5 said:
For all the Devs in the ASGS2 forum, are you guys finding your rom/kernel threads being clogged up with a bunch of random questions/issues? How would you feel if I made you all each a Q&A thread dedicated to your work in the Q&A forum? Do you feel that would help you/your thread? Please let me know what you think or how you feel, and hit up the poll to cast your vote.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did this in the forums that PG mentioned. While yes it was a bit of a headache in the inspire forums ( they are getting used to it) and the captivate section went off without an issue I would say to go for it and if needed ill help where I can. I have to admite the 2 forums that I did this for once it was gotten by most needs less cleaning now for sure. Mainly when other users back you on it.
Personally I think it would be really helpful if individual posts could be categorized and/or sorted within a thread. That way all posts relating to a specific rom/development topic could remain in the same thread, but you could then filter out the garbage, sort through the questions, and find posts that are truly relevant to the topic or project or whatever. It would still depend on the users to label posts properly, but I think we're all in agreement that there is no perfect solution to the issue.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda premium
10tonhammr said:
Personally I think it would be really helpful if individual posts could be categorized and/or sorted within a thread. That way all posts relating to a specific rom/development topic could remain in the same thread, but you could then filter out the garbage, sort through the questions, and find posts that are truly relevant to the topic or project or whatever. It would still depend on the users to label posts properly, but I think we're all in agreement that there is no perfect solution to the issue.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not a Dev myself but I do feel two threads isn't an ideal solution... Most ignorant people who can't find an answer in five second's or just don't feel like even trying to search will always head to the source of their ROM issues. Now if the method 10tonhammer described seems like an okay idea as long as any average person takes the task upon themselves to tag their post properly. Either way I'm not exactly the prime example of good manners on XDA (Feel's Guilty)
I am learning at least <3
Lastly Thank you to all Dev's and Mod's who make this the most pleasant interaction between Developer and User possible.
Ok. So I have thought about doing this for a long time and always have a reason why I haven't done it. I also still have plenty of reservations with it, but I trust it will go well.
What this is:
Ask questions to the moderation team here in the 3d forum. Mostly me. I can't say the others will participate in this thread, as they are not required to. We don't have to talk about a lot of what goes on and I will not force them to. I digress.
If you are confused about a certain rule, or just want clarification, come here. If you want guidance on how to approach a certain situation (this mostly for me), you can come here.
What this isn't:
A place to discuss in detail why someone was banned. Also we will not discuss the banning of people in the past. I will not usually talk about why someone was infracted. Those are all personal details, and will be left as such. Also this is not a place to flame the moderators or anyone else.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is my attempt to be fairly transparent with the user base. Most everyone here who knows me, knows that I am willing to talk to just about anyone, and am easy to get a long with. As long as you keep this a civil thread, it will remain. This isn't something that is required, I'm doing it to hopefully bring about some civility in this forum. We don't do things in secret, we just don't talk about it publicly usually.
You work with me, I will work with you.
Savvy?
Thanks to ramjet73 for encouraging me to go ahead and do this.
I too will participate and have subscribed to this thread. As most know I'm not secretive and don't hold alliances with a lot of devs here in 3d land. I tell it like it is and don't let anyone bash another member or previous member for that matter. As long as this is civil I will be as well. Let's play nice and all get along. Remember everyone we are all here to tweak our phones, run the latest software, have the coolest stuff, have fun, and share in our hobby. Nobody here is paid to be here at all so there is no reason to fight cause it gets u no where.
XDA Moderator
What they said ^
Also, as I am often seen as the more angry mod (I'm doing my best to curtail that), hopefully I'll be able to eloquently explain the reasons for my shortness.
Carry on.
Where do babies come from?? HAHAHAHA
Obviously I'm joking BUT I do have a serious question.
Why does the search feature go down once a day??
I know a lot of noobs don't notice this because they don't search BUT I use it all day long and I know I'm not the only one that finds this annoying!
Just a few questions. I'm not sure if these fall under the questions that are allowed to be asked, but:
1.] Is Agrabren simply not allowed to post CDMA builds anymore? I still don't truly understand the path his CDMA development has gone, it seems to come and go.
2.] To my understanding there are false GPL claims being made against him. How exactly are those claims made/handled? Is it an automated system? If not, wouldn't it be possible to tell which claims being made are just trolls?
3.] How do you guys put up with the drama so well? I would have lost my mind a long time ago :crying:
Reporting Posts
Thanks to pstevep and papa smurf151 for opening this thread.
I'll try to start this in the spirit that I think it was intended by asking the mods what is the best way to handle a post that has been made in the wrong forum, something that rarely happens in the Evo 3d forums.
We don't want to discourage new users that might not know better, but there are detailed guidelines posted for the development forum by papa smurf151 as a sticky in that forum, and general guidelines for new threads in the Forum & Marketplace Rules post at the top of each forum.
In your opinions, is it appropriate to link those guidelines when a post is misplaced or better to just reference them and let the users find them on their own? It's a good exercise to find them yourself when you are not even aware that they exist, but sometimes that discourages users from actually reading them.
This may sound trivial so far, but my real question is whether or not we should report these posts. Is it helpful to the mods to report posts, or better to just wait until someone gets around to reviewing the new threads.
On a broader scale, when would you recommend that we report posts versus just leaving it to the mods to handle them?
ramjet73
This was a great idea. I just want to say thank you to ramjet, pvstepup, and papasmurf for allowing a chance for normal members to come together and let members have a chance to clear the air of any matters that maybe unclear. This is one is for papasmurf: I notice more recently that you have locked quite a few threads with all having something to do with opinions of what's the best Rom or kernel. Now many of us get the idea that you are preventing flaming wars and trying to keep things civil. Myself and many others are wondering, is our hunches accurate?
DarkRazorZ said:
Just a few questions. I'm not sure if these fall under the questions that are allowed to be asked, but:
1.] Is Agrabren simply not allowed to post CDMA builds anymore? I still don't truly understand the path his CDMA development has gone, it seems to come and go.
2.] To my understanding there are false GPL claims being made against him. How exactly are those claims made/handled? Is it an automated system? If not, wouldn't it be possible to tell which claims being made are just trolls?
3.] How do you guys put up with the drama so well? I would have lost my mind a long time ago :crying:
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Click to collapse
1. From my understanding he has taken his cdma builds off xda to let things chill for awhile. When things get heated sometimes the best course of action is to cool off and let time resolve the situation
2. Even though there are devs not on xda we do exchange emails or talk on other forums...sometimes even gtalk. The real gpl complaints come that way as well as from pm with specific issues linked and evidence given. Simply saying he's breaking the rules with no proof gets u no where with the mod team
3. Actually 99% of the time we have nothing go do and that's a good thing. At times we simply go into threads...clean them up and leave a warning. If it gets bad then u take further actions. Keeping a cool head and having to remain neutral helps to not get so mad since u don't take sides its easier. If it gets personal or u r personally involved that's when u step aside and let ur fellow mods help. We r all a big team and work together
XDA Moderator
Mazda said:
Where do babies come from?? HAHAHAHA
Obviously I'm joking BUT I do have a serious question.
Why does the search feature go down once a day??
I know a lot of noobs don't notice this because they don't search BUT I use it all day long and I know I'm not the only one that finds this annoying!
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U see when ur mom was hot I meet her at this hotel...I have pictures if u want details and well 9 months later we had a son named alex. I was ashamed of him so I left....lmso jk man.
Search = bang head against wall.
We really have no control of it. Its a server issue I think
XDA Moderator
Papa Smurf151 said:
U see when ur mom was hot I meet her at this hotel...I have pictures if u want details and well 9 months later we had a son named alex. I was ashamed of him so I left....lmso jk man.
Search = bang head against wall.
We really have no control of it. Its a server issue I think
XDA Moderator
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Thanks.......DAD??!?? HAHAHAHAHHA
ramjet73 said:
Thanks to pstevep and papa smurf151 for opening this thread.
I'll try to start this in the spirit that I think it was intended by asking the mods what is the best way to handle a post that has been made in the wrong forum, something that rarely happens in the Evo 3d forums.
We don't want to discourage new users that might not know better, but there are detailed guidelines posted for the development forum by papa smurf151 as a sticky in that forum, and general guidelines for new threads in the Forum & Marketplace Rules post at the top of each forum.
In your opinions, is it appropriate to link those guidelines when a post is misplaced or better to just reference them and let the users find them on their own? It's a good exercise to find them yourself when you are not even aware that they exist, but sometimes that discourages users from actually reading them.
This may sound trivial so far, but my real question is whether or not we should report these posts. Is it helpful to the mods to report posts, or better to just wait until someone gets around to reviewing the new threads.
On a broader scale, when would you recommend that we report posts versus just leaving it to the mods to handle them?
ramjet73
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Click to collapse
Ok if ud like please post a link in the thread posted in wrong section to my guidelines and then report.
id rather come hone from work with 15 reported posts then to search around and see a flame war over something really stupid and trivial.
Jsparta26 said:
This was a great idea. I just want to say thank you to ramjet, pvstepup, and papasmurf for allowing a chance for normal members to come together and let members have a chance to clear the air of any matters that maybe unclear. This is one is for papasmurf: I notice more recently that you have locked quite a few threads with all having something to do with opinions of what's the best Rom or kernel. Now many of us get the idea that you are preventing flaming wars and trying to keep things civil. Myself and many others are wondering, is our hunches accurate?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup ur spot on. In my dealing with these threads they turn ugly real fast. Devs get feelings hurt. Fan boys bash others roms or promote their favs. Its really all opinion and u know what they say about opinions. My suggestion is don't participate. In the og evo section we've instigated this rule and its prevented countless fights and clean up work for the mods
XDA Moderator
Mazda said:
Where do babies come from?? HAHAHAHA
Obviously I'm joking BUT I do have a serious question.
Why does the search feature go down once a day??
I know a lot of noobs don't notice this because they don't search BUT I use it all day long and I know I'm not the only one that finds this annoying!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Xda search is a google custom search, if it's down I just use google which typically yields similar results. I'm for real not trolling.
ramjet73 said:
Thanks to pstevep and papa smurf151 for opening this thread.
I'll try to start this in the spirit that I think it was intended by asking the mods what is the best way to handle a post that has been made in the wrong forum, something that rarely happens in the Evo 3d forums.
We don't want to discourage new users that might not know better, but there are detailed guidelines posted for the development forum by papa smurf151 as a sticky in that forum, and general guidelines for new threads in the Forum & Marketplace Rules post at the top of each forum.
In your opinions, is it appropriate to link those guidelines when a post is misplaced or better to just reference them and let the users find them on their own? It's a good exercise to find them yourself when you are not even aware that they exist, but sometimes that discourages users from actually reading them.
This may sound trivial so far, but my real question is whether or not we should report these posts. Is it helpful to the mods to report posts, or better to just wait until someone gets around to reviewing the new threads.
On a broader scale, when would you recommend that we report posts versus just leaving it to the mods to handle them?
ramjet73
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Click to collapse
Please please please please use report. There's only 3 of us fsm, plus pstevep. We can't see it all thread wise since we all moderate more than just this forum, but we can see the reports (and faster). PM's work too.
And I thought babies came from the cabbage patch. It's at least cool to have 1 thread for drama. ie. V6 supercharger
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using xda app-developers app
Where did the zero tolerance threads go?
iTzLOLtrain said:
Where did the zero tolerance threads go?
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It was retired. It was never meant to be here forever. It was a tool to calm things down. It worked and the reins were loosened as we do not like being dictators but will if need be.
XDA Moderator
Mazda said:
Where do babies come from?? HAHAHAHA
Obviously I'm joking BUT I do have a serious question.
Why does the search feature go down once a day??
I know a lot of noobs don't notice this because they don't search BUT I use it all day long and I know I'm not the only one that finds this annoying!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh the lovely search. It actually goes down when our custom cache gets corrupted on the server. Then our server guy has to rebuild cache which takes several hours typically. It's annoying for everyone, especially the server guy.
DarkRazorZ said:
Just a few questions. I'm not sure if these fall under the questions that are allowed to be asked, but:
1.] Is Agrabren simply not allowed to post CDMA builds anymore? I still don't truly understand the path his CDMA development has gone, it seems to come and go.
2.] To my understanding there are false GPL claims being made against him. How exactly are those claims made/handled? Is it an automated system? If not, wouldn't it be possible to tell which claims being made are just trolls?
3.] How do you guys put up with the drama so well? I would have lost my mind a long time ago :crying:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lord how did I know this type of question would be at the beginning.
1. He could post his CDMA build if he wanted to. Gpl wise he provides source. However due to circumstances that everyone is aware it is not being posted for the good of everyone involved. I told him that if he isn't going to post it though, we can't have it accessible from anything on here. Believe me for right now it's the greater good.
2. When a gpl claim is reported its handled ostensibly like any other report. Except that usually a senior mod and or a member of the dev committee is brought in to look at it. If there are any issues we address them with the dev in question. Agrabren's issues were looked into and addressed appropriately. Sometimes yes its easy to know when it's just trolling, but not always, it's a serious matter so we tend to take it seriously.
3. I honestly think my 3 year old had a lot to do with it for me. Calmed me down, made me more patient. Plus I'm the type of person who likes to fix things so I tend to try and defuse situations by nature. I think everyone deserves respect, and if you talk to me I will talk to you. If you work with me, i will work with you. I want what's best for the community.
Hope that helps.
ramjet73 said:
Thanks to pstevep and papa smurf151 for opening this thread.
I'll try to start this in the spirit that I think it was intended by asking the mods what is the best way to handle a post that has been made in the wrong forum, something that rarely happens in the Evo 3d forums.
We don't want to discourage new users that might not know better, but there are detailed guidelines posted for the development forum by papa smurf151 as a sticky in that forum, and general guidelines for new threads in the Forum & Marketplace Rules post at the top of each forum.
In your opinions, is it appropriate to link those guidelines when a post is misplaced or better to just reference them and let the users find them on their own? It's a good exercise to find them yourself when you are not even aware that they exist, but sometimes that discourages users from actually reading them.
This may sound trivial so far, but my real question is whether or not we should report these posts. Is it helpful to the mods to report posts, or better to just wait until someone gets around to reviewing the new threads.
On a broader scale, when would you recommend that we report posts versus just leaving it to the mods to handle them?
ramjet73
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just report instantly. Or you can pm me directly. I don't always see the reported posts as much as I'm mobile 75% of the time. I have a lot of gut feelings that pay off and I'm in the right place at the right time. I also have devs (not as much in the 3d forum) that will gtalk me when something is going down. But report as soon as you see it is the best Option.
EDIT: as for wrong posting. You can instruct the person politely that they are in the wrong forum, but still report so we can move it. Does that help?
il Duce said:
Please please please please use report. There's only 3 of us fsm, plus pstevep. We can't see it all thread wise since we all moderate more than just this forum, but we can see the reports (and faster). PM's work too.
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Click to collapse
Where the heck have you been? There are 6 in here now not counting me. Granted one is fairly inactive, but still 6 listed.
Yeah six fsm in here but 3 fsm that are active at all.
plus u of course
XDA Moderator
il Duce said:
What they said ^
Also, as I am often seen as the more angry mod (I'm doing my best to curtail that), hopefully I'll be able to eloquently explain the reasons for my shortness.
Carry on.
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Why are you the angry mod? Was it something from your childhood?
In all seriousness, I don't see how you're considered the angry mod. You've always been helpful. In fact, I've noticed in the teamd3rp Q&A, you're one of the only ones answering questions.
Posted with Tapatalk 2
Why can't I find the anthrax kernel here I used to use it on meanrom but now I can't find it anywhere! I my opinion there is no better kernel.
That sucker flew not to mention I hate the stock kernel!
So could you point me to the anthrax GB kernel that would be great or at least who makes it! I only remember the name of it because it has the same name of my favorite band.
coal686 said:
Why are you the angry mod? Was it something from your childhood?
In all seriousness, I don't see how you're considered the angry mod. You've always been helpful. In fact, I've noticed in the teamd3rp Q&A, you're one of the only ones answering questions.
Posted with Tapatalk 2
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Click to collapse
Because I go off on people.
spirithandler said:
Why can't I find the anthrax kernel here I used to use it on meanrom but now I can't find it anywhere! I my opinion there is no better kernel.
That sucker flew not to mention I hate the stock kernel!
So could you point me to the anthrax GB kernel that would be great or at least who makes it! I only remember the name of it because it has the same name of my favorite band.
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Click to collapse
See attached