The article, found here, has quotes from Chainfire, and says it is possible to downgrade the phone's firmware, but the KNOX bootloader will be tripped. It then states that after the downgrade, the bootloader, being tripped, will no longer accept any KNOX-equipped firmwares, meaning once you go to 4.2 MDK, for example, you will no longer be able to go to 4.3 MJ7. However, your bootloader will be downgraded and will accept Loki/custom recovery.
Warranty only lasts a year from purchase date, and mine is up, so Im fine with fiddling around to get my bootloader back. Can someone confirm? I have messaged Chainfire on Twitter and am awaiting response from him.
As this may not be true, I have not yet tested this myself. If Chainfire confirms his quotes, I will attempt to downgrade, and if it works, everyone can do so as well, just by giving up warranty. That may be a high price, but for some, it may be worth it.
dothog said:
The article, found here, has quotes from Chainfire, and says it is possible to downgrade the phone's firmware, but the KNOX bootloader will be tripped. It then states that after the downgrade, the bootloader, being tripped, will no longer accept any KNOX-equipped firmwares, meaning once you go to 4.2 MDK, for example, you will no longer be able to go to 4.3 MJ7. However, your bootloader will be downgraded and will accept Loki/custom recovery.
Warranty only lasts a year from purchase date, and mine is up, so Im fine with fiddling around to get my bootloader back. Can someone confirm? I have messaged Chainfire on Twitter and am awaiting response from him.
As this may not be true, I have not yet tested this myself. If Chainfire confirms his quotes, I will attempt to downgrade, and if it works, everyone can do so as well, just by giving up warranty. That may be a high price, but for some, it may be worth it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought that it was still the carriers decision and that's why us on Verizon are still screwed.
My Sprint S4 has Knox and the security isn't the same, that phone is currently running Philz Recovery with Carbon on it. Clearly there is a Knox Warranty Void bit now on that phone but I don't care.
Hey I'm with you though all the way... Just that's how I took it.
I realize you're talking about the actual bootloader...
Sent from my SCH-I545 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Mistertac said:
I thought that it was still the carriers decision and that's why us on Verizon are still screwed.
My Sprint S4 has Knox and the security isn't the same, that phone is currently running Philz Recovery with Carbon on it. Clearly there is a Knox Warranty Void bit now on that phone but I don't care.
Hey I'm with you though all the way... Just that's how I took it.
I realize you're talking about the actual bootloader...
Sent from my SCH-I545 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I contacted Verizon about the possibility to do an individual person's request to unlock a bootloader for aid in development. They said it was possible but not to do it because it voids warranty. They then said theres steps to follow on Samsung's website. I checked, couldnt find anything. The Dev Edition S4's bootloader is not unlocked, just unlockable. You need to get some sort of token to push to the phone over ADB to unlock it. I could not even find those steps on Samsung's site.
Samsung said my phone itself, the SCH-i545, could be unlocked and downgraded, but would not do it for me and again tried to discourage me from it because it voids warranty. I told them I am a developer, and the phone support tech told me to use the "Voice of the Customer" email link that goes directly to the executives, and they might make an exception for me, since I am an aspiring developer.
I googled and googled and googled, and eventually found that link, that shows it is possible, but it will void warranty. Theres a way to simply flash stock MDK, and it will just work, but the phone will show the warranty void flag. I dont give a damn about warranty. The bootloader was forcefully locked from me, as an update magically installed itself while my phone charged. I was downloading a ROM to flash with Loki overnight, and when I woke up, my phone was on ME7.
dothog said:
I contacted Verizon about the possibility to do an individual person's request to unlock a bootloader for aid in development. They said it was possible but not to do it because it voids warranty. They then said theres steps to follow on Samsung's website. I checked, couldnt find anything. The Dev Edition S4's bootloader is not unlocked, just unlockable. You need to get some sort of token to push to the phone over ADB to unlock it. I could not even find those steps on Samsung's site.
Samsung said my phone itself, the SCH-i545, could be unlocked and downgraded, but would not do it for me and again tried to discourage me from it because it voids warranty. I told them I am a developer, and the phone support tech told me to use the "Voice of the Customer" email link that goes directly to the executives, and they might make an exception for me, since I am an aspiring developer.
I googled and googled and googled, and eventually found that link, that shows it is possible, but it will void warranty. Theres a way to simply flash stock MDK, and it will just work, but the phone will show the warranty void flag. I dont give a damn about warranty. The bootloader was forcefully locked from me, as an update magically installed itself while my phone charged. I was downloading a ROM to flash with Loki overnight, and when I woke up, my phone was on ME7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well that's certainly interesting. And I'd be willing to fire off an email to the executives if that's all it takes. Something makes me feel like they're not going to make any of that easy. I don't care about my warranty either so... Let me know how you make out!!
Sent from my SCH-I545 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
dothog said:
The article, found here, has quotes from Chainfire, and says it is possible to downgrade the phone's firmware, but the KNOX bootloader will be tripped. It then states that after the downgrade, the bootloader, being tripped, will no longer accept any KNOX-equipped firmwares, meaning once you go to 4.2 MDK, for example, you will no longer be able to go to 4.3 MJ7. However, your bootloader will be downgraded and will accept Loki/custom recovery.
Warranty only lasts a year from purchase date, and mine is up, so Im fine with fiddling around to get my bootloader back. Can someone confirm? I have messaged Chainfire on Twitter and am awaiting response from him.
As this may not be true, I have not yet tested this myself. If Chainfire confirms his quotes, I will attempt to downgrade, and if it works, everyone can do so as well, just by giving up warranty. That may be a high price, but for some, it may be worth it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, it doesn't say that you can downgrade.
What it says is that attempts to downgrade will set the "Knox Warranty Void" flag. We already know that.
Unfortunately, I wasted my time reading the referenced article, which had no new information content.
k1mu said:
No, it doesn't say that you can downgrade.
What it says is that attempts to downgrade will set the "Knox Warranty Void" flag. We already know that.
Unfortunately, I wasted my time reading the referenced article, which had no new information content.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I deeply apologize....I didnt really expect for a top developer to read this article. I just figured others could look into this and maybe get something from it, I never expected anyone to actually follow what it said.
Again, my apologies! :crying:
dothog said:
I deeply apologize....I didnt really expect for a top developer to read this article. I just figured others could look into this and maybe get something from it, I never expected anyone to actually follow what it said.
Again, my apologies! :crying:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You wouldn't expect a developer working on a downgrade to read this post? Lol. If it were as simple as downgrading and taking a loss on the warranty there wouldn't be a couple thousand dollar bounty on a workaround. Most people on here would gladly tell Samsung to shove their warranty where the sun doesn't shine, myself included.
Not trying to be a douche, it's obvious you were looking to help. Thanks.
gnubdidn't think they'd t9478748 said:
You wouldn't expect a developer working on a downgrade to read this post? Lol. If it were as simple as downgrading and taking a loss on the warranty there wouldn't be a couple thousand dollar bounty on a workaround. Most people on here would gladly tell Samsung to shove their warranty where the sun doesn't shine, myself included.
Not trying to be a douche, it's obvious you were looking to help. Thanks.
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Click to collapse
I honestly didnt think anyone would trust the link once they saw it was posted by a newbie with like five posts.
I really intended this to be something that would get other newcomers to quit bothering devs asking questions when theres Google.
I figured since most people don't listen, someone might as well give em something here to shut them up.....
Thank you for your kindness, though!
Related
Need to take my Atrix in for warranty purpose. A few methods have been discussed and I'm looking for the safest means possible. Any opinion's on this? I leaning towards the SBF method using Moto's stock 2.3.4 via RSD Lite.
Sounds like having your cake and eating it too.. You seen all the warnings saying your void if you unlock right? Here is another thread about "relocking" (hiding "unlocked" is not relocking btw, relocking is impossible.) also there are many threads on this topic, feel free to search.
WiredPirate said:
Sounds like having your cake and eating it too.. You seen all the warnings saying your void if you unlock right? Here is another thread about "relocking" (hiding "unlocked" is not relocking btw, relocking is impossible.) also there are many threads on this topic, feel free to search.
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Click to collapse
Dude why do you have to be such a DB all the time, i'v looked around these posts for about 30 min and i have seen you respond with same kind of Jack A remarks everytime. Were here for help not to be ridiculed.
Please don't take this the wrong way but the dev community is actively trying to get all manufacturers to allow for unlocked bootloaders and one of the main things most of us are willing to forfeit is our warranties so when someone decides to voluntarily do something that is known to void the warranty and then try to trick the manufacturer into fixing their phone under said warranty it hurts our argument. We all made the choice when we unlocked our phones so it is only fair that we take responsibility for our decisions.
Hopefully, in the future we can come to an agreement with manufacturers that there is an "opt-in" option for unlocking our phones and as long as we stay within the confines of the agreement then we can still have the option to have the phone serviced for physical defects.
kyleallen5000 said:
Dude why do you have to be such a DB all the time, i'v looked around these posts for about 30 min and i have seen you respond with same kind of Jack A remarks everytime. Were here for help not to be ridiculed.
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Click to collapse
live4nyy said:
Please don't take this the wrong way but the dev community is actively trying to get all manufacturers to allow for unlocked bootloaders and one of the main things most of us are willing to forfeit is our warranties so when someone decides to voluntarily do something that is known to void the warranty and then try to trick the manufacturer into fixing their phone under said warranty it hurts our argument. We all made the choice when we unlocked our phones so it is only fair that we take responsibility for our decisions.
Hopefully, in the future we can come to an agreement with manufacturers that there is an "opt-in" option for unlocking our phones and as long as we stay within the confines of the agreement then we can still have the option to have the phone serviced for physical defects.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm going to have to second this. as much as i dislike the "unlocked" at the top of my screen i made this choice. little did i know that it would actually say this when done:-( however rooting, rom, bootloader unlock, other mods done by us, unfortunately void our warranty.
however.... if you wanted a device that you could unlock bootloader or what not. you should have went with an inspire as you can turn s-on after being s-off and flash back to stock firmware. therefore in essence. not be hurting the valiant efforts of our communtiy to get the manufacturers to allow us more exploration.
I do feel your pain, yet like stated in every thread for rooting and romming and bootloader..... YOUR WARRANTY IS NOW VOID!!!
SErooted said:
I'm going to have to second this. as much as i dislike the "unlocked" at the top of my screen i made this choice. little did i know that it would actually say this when done:-( however rooting, rom, bootloader unlock, other mods done by us, unfortunately void our warranty.
however.... if you wanted a device that you could unlock bootloader or what not. you should have went with an inspire as you can turn s-on after being s-off and flash back to stock firmware. therefore in essence. not be hurting the valiant efforts of our communtiy to get the manufacturers to allow us more exploration.
I do feel your pain, yet like stated in every thread for rooting and romming and bootloader..... YOUR WARRANTY IS NOW VOID!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It actual says may void warranty. I think until there is some agreement made, we don't have any rules regarding this. I mean unlocking the bootloader doesn't make some of the defects happen. As an American with consumer rights, I will hold them responsible, but only if not directly from my mingling. Also I have read that moto has fixed phones with unlocked bootloaders.
Sent from my MB860 using xda premium
Sass86 said:
It actual says may void warranty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
"May" is not synonymous with "will." People continue to misinterpret those terms.
If unlocking the BL absolutely voided your warranty, they would have indicated as such with a term that meant "will."
I stand corrected. The point is valid.... "may" and "will" are different words and meanings.
However most times when the statement made by a corporation that includes "may" or "might" means you are out of luck.
Not to argue, because I do agree with you but in legal terms the word "may" does not mean the same thing as the normal definition.
may v. a choice to act or not, or a promise of a possibility, as distinguished from "shall" which makes it imperative. 2) in statutes, and sometimes in contracts, the word "may" must be read in context to determine if it means an act is optional or mandatory, for it may be an imperative. The same careful analysis must be made of the word "shall." Non-lawyers tend to see the word "may" and think they have a choice or are excused from complying with some statutory provision or regulation.
The underlined part highlights how they would see it as it implies you are making the choice to void your warranty.
Now, this is how I see it because I tend to think most definitions regarding legal terms is in place to protect companies and not consumers so if someone could elaborate and prove me wrong, I invite it with open mind.
magecca said:
+1
"May" is not synonymous with "will." People continue to misinterpret those terms.
If unlocking the BL absolutely voided your warranty, they would have indicated as such with a term that meant "will."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
kyleallen5000 said:
Dude why do you have to be such a DB all the time, i'v looked around these posts for about 30 min and i have seen you respond with same kind of Jack A remarks everytime. Were here for help not to be ridiculed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol, you read all my other posts about this in the past 30 minute and still dont understand you voided your warrenty DA!? I dont care if you do or dont get service for your voided phone, and Im not gonna argue about the word may. I dont care. What i do care about is checking XDA without seeing the same GD threads over and Fing over again because DAs like you refuse to use the Fing search button. SMC.
lol funny arguments gotta love em. For one hiding the Unlock really doesn't matter considering I have returned one Atrix to where I bought it and they didn't care. Secondly Motorola has the "Choice" to deny you warranty repairs but they MAY accept the warranty repair and third they could always, if the phone was returned, reflash the bootloader to Lock it again. Plan and simple easy answer is it is ultimately up to Motorola if they want to repair it or not once it is unlocked.
I'm not talking about personal experience, it's about assuming responsibility for your actions. My whole point is accountability, there are people all the time trying to take advantage of the system and end up ruining it for everyone else. Society is fostering an entire generation of vain and spoiled derelicts.
You are right though, it could all come down to who you run into while trying to have your phone repaired.
malickie said:
lol funny arguments gotta love em. For one hiding the Unlock really doesn't matter considering I have returned one Atrix to where I bought it and they didn't care. Secondly Motorola has the "Choice" to deny you warranty repairs but they MAY accept the warranty repair and third they could always, if the phone was returned, reflash the bootloader to Lock it again. Plan and simple easy answer is it is ultimately up to Motorola if they want to repair it or not once it is unlocked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
live4nyy said:
I'm not talking about personal experience, it's about assuming responsibility for your actions. My whole point is accountability, there are people all the time trying to take advantage of the system and end up ruining it for everyone else. Society is fostering an entire generation of vain and spoiled derelicts.
You are right though, it could all come down to who you run into while trying to have your phone repaired.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True more or less. Society is propagating the problem but it really starts with the way the government is running things as a whole. Not saying it's right but until something changes in society and the government it's just all down hill. Also if you look deeper banks have a Major role as well. Anyway enough on off topic issue's there yea I do believe it is ultimately up to Motorola whether they will repair the device or not. I would assume they would probably deny the repair if it had something to do with the actual Software of the phone considering you messed with it, hardware probably different considering software usually doesn't blow up hardware.
Thread about how to return phone after voiding warranty, contents:
some name calling, discussion about morality, the meaning of the word "may", society, laws, government, companies
to TS,
try 'accidentally' sinking your Atrix in the ocean for a minute, and then claim your warranty?
or try 2 cover it with your thumb while booting?
to others,
help TS, (like me?), don't condemn everything about what he had done in the past.
maybe, he's your friend next door, a helping hand's neighbor?
SErooted said:
however rooting, rom, bootloader unlock, other mods done by us, unfortunately void our warranty.
however.... if you wanted a device that you could unlock bootloader or what not. you should have went with an inspire as you can turn s-on after being s-off and flash back to stock firmware. therefore in essence. not be hurting the valiant efforts of our communtiy to get the manufacturers to allow us more exploration.
I do feel your pain, yet like stated in every thread for rooting and romming and bootloader..... YOUR WARRANTY IS NOW VOID!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please show me where it states all these things, (rooting, ROMs', bootloader unlock, and 'other' mods), void our warranties.
Also, for the bootloader, as was already stated, it does say MAY void your warranty. The reason it says 'may' is in all probability because if your phone doesn't work/stops working for some reason they legally cannot refuse to warranty it unless they can attribute the problem to the act of unlocking the bootloader. Someone else stated in another thread that it really is not in Motorolas' best interest to start messing with people for unlocking bootloaders when they send in phones for repair. I would tend to agree with this. After reading all the threads I have seen over the last few months, I can't remember reading about anyone who has been declined warranty or been made to pay for repairs because they unlocked their bootloader. To the contrary there are many stories of people getting their phones back fully repaired and still unlocked with no issues.
malickie said:
True more or less. Society is propagating the problem but it really starts with the way the government is running things as a whole. Not saying it's right but until something changes in society and the government it's just all down hill. Also if you look deeper banks have a Major role as well. Anyway enough on off topic issue's there yea I do believe it is ultimately up to Motorola whether they will repair the device or not. I would assume they would probably deny the repair if it had something to do with the actual Software of the phone considering you messed with it, hardware probably different considering software usually doesn't blow up hardware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would love to see an agreement put in place that allows us to have "hardware" still under warranty regardless of "software".
---------- Post added at 06:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:56 AM ----------
palmboy5 said:
Thread about how to return phone after voiding warranty, contents:
some name calling, discussion about morality, the meaning of the word "may", society, laws, government, companies
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're right, how could we have messed up so bad? We forgot to talk about Lindsay Lohan!
---------- Post added at 07:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:57 AM ----------
baddiejang said:
to TS,
try 'accidentally' sinking your Atrix in the ocean for a minute, and then claim your warranty?
or try 2 cover it with your thumb while booting?
to others,
help TS, (like me?), don't condemn everything about what he had done in the past.
maybe, he's your friend next door, a helping hand's neighbor?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@WiredPirate has already provided a link but I guess I can be pro-active and actually USE the "search" feature.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1201105
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1261413
There are more discussions as well.
---------- Post added at 07:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:04 AM ----------
CaelanT said:
Please show me where it states all these things, (rooting, ROMs', bootloader unlock, and 'other' mods), void our warranties.
Also, for the bootloader, as was already stated, it does say MAY void your warranty. The reason it says 'may' is in all probability because if your phone doesn't work/stops working for some reason they legally cannot refuse to warranty it unless they can attribute the problem to the act of unlocking the bootloader. Someone else stated in another thread that it really is not in Motorolas' best interest to start messing with people for unlocking bootloaders when they send in phones for repair. I would tend to agree with this. After reading all the threads I have seen over the last few months, I can't remember reading about anyone who has been declined warranty or been made to pay for repairs because they unlocked their bootloader. To the contrary there are many stories of people getting their phones back fully repaired and still unlocked with no issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're right about Motorola should not reject people for warranty repairs, they still have a lot of work to do in rebuilding customer relations and their public image.
I would not care at all about people using their warranties if they just did it but I don't like all the threads discussing how to "dupe" Motorola because they made a conscious decision to unlock their bootloader knowing it "may" void their warranty. And don't get me wrong, I'm not siding with Motorola on the issue, I just believe people should fully understand the implications of their choices and until there is a set agreement on the issue then people should just accept the outcomes.
Also, people should continue to actively pursue getting these policies overturned by companies like Motorola and AT&T. The community has made great strides over the past year and we need to keep pushing.
I really wish people would search instead of crearing another thread on the same thing. People need to be coddled and what better way to start an argument/pity party by starting another thread without using search.
I voided my warranty and your mum.
If you're on Gingerbread, or have atleast updated to it, you can flash the stock gingerbread .sbf and it won't brick your phone. Just don't flash any other kind of .sbf , you can't go back to any other version. When you flash that with RSDlite, it'll take you back to stock and wipe the "unlocked" logo off your screen. It will still BE unlocked, it just won't say it.
CaelanT said:
Please show me where it states all these things, (rooting, ROMs', bootloader unlock, and 'other' mods), void our warranties.
Also, for the bootloader, as was already stated, it does say MAY void your warranty. The reason it says 'may' is in all probability because if your phone doesn't work/stops working for some reason they legally cannot refuse to warranty it unless they can attribute the problem to the act of unlocking the bootloader. Someone else stated in another thread that it really is not in Motorolas' best interest to start messing with people for unlocking bootloaders when they send in phones for repair. I would tend to agree with this. After reading all the threads I have seen over the last few months, I can't remember reading about anyone who has been declined warranty or been made to pay for repairs because they unlocked their bootloader. To the contrary there are many stories of people getting their phones back fully repaired and still unlocked with no issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok let me rephrase,
I have noticed people in the Atrix community, are not as well versed in being civil with each other, as members in my other device forums are. Point is. everywhere you read, when it comes to rooting, unlocking, there is a "chance" of the statement "may" void warranty. (don't act like you are dislexic or in a special ed class and cant read or never learned how to) Maybe go read again where these statements are at when you read the thread.
Also to install a rom, you need to be rooted, and in some cases like this device, you need to have unlocked bootloader and cwm or a recovery installed to flash the rom to your device.
Which yet again brings up the point you have to go to a forum, locate a thread, read the info, and most of them always say, there is a chance at "may void warranty" and not responsible if you brick your device, kick your cat, crash your car,pull your hair, beat the sh** out of your wife, murder your neighbor, or somehow end up having to dive to the bottom of the ocean to retrieve your dog.
Just days after my team Unlocked the IROM, Samsung is selling a "Developer Edition". This developer edition will be more secure than the exploit unlock my team provides.
http://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/cell-phones/SCH-I605MSAVZW
I find this really funny. I will also call those who pay for this device a sucker.
heck yea
Why would anyone in their right mind fork that kind of money over, when Adam Outler has opened this bad device up for you, you are right, they are a sucker if they fall for this.
Need to hire you Adam. Samsung will make major inprovements. I call for a petition.
Sent from my rooted Verizon Galaxy Note 2. FU Verizon and all tour BS you throw around.
I can think of several reasons to buy it. First, and most important, if Samsung gets high demand for this, it gives them data to send back to Verizon on subsequent models saying "look, there is a market for unlocked phones". This is especially true if Samsung sells significantly more of them on another carrier, and there is high demand for the unlocked version.
Another reason would be, if this is shipping unlocked in a manner that would allow you to flash the kernel and recovery, you are getting an unlocked phone that still has its warranty. Technically, you can restore your current phone to the factory state and get warranty coverage, but you broke the warranty. That would be less of an issue on the Developer edition.
Next, you'll never have to worry about an OTA update breaking the unlocked state of your device. It is possible that checks will be introduced to require a specific bootloader version to work with updated radios or kernels, or other proprietary libraries. We may be able to hack around it, but this isn't something you'd need to worry about here.
Finally, lets say you want to buy the device at full retail to keep your unlimited data. Why go and buy it at Verizon and let them make money off of a locked phone? This goes back to the first point too. Spend the same amount with Samsung, let them get the profits for producing an unlocked device.
imnuts said:
I can think of several reasons to buy it. First, and most important, if Samsung gets high demand for this, it gives them data to send back to Verizon on subsequent models saying "look, there is a market for unlocked phones". This is especially true if Samsung sells significantly more of them on another carrier, and there is high demand for the unlocked version.
Another reason would be, if this is shipping unlocked in a manner that would allow you to flash the kernel and recovery, you are getting an unlocked phone that still has its warranty. Technically, you can restore your current phone to the factory state and get warranty coverage, but you broke the warranty. That would be less of an issue on the Developer edition.
Next, you'll never have to worry about an OTA update breaking the unlocked state of your device. It is possible that checks will be introduced to require a specific bootloader version to work with updated radios or kernels, or other proprietary libraries. We may be able to hack around it, but this isn't something you'd need to worry about here.
Finally, lets say you want to buy the device at full retail to keep your unlimited data. Why go and buy it at Verizon and let them make money off of a locked phone? This goes back to the first point too. Spend the same amount with Samsung, let them get the profits for producing an unlocked device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
none of those are valid reasons. They are all possible on your device already. If they wanted to collect data they could.
AdamOutler said:
none of those are valid reasons. They are all possible on your device already. If they wanted to collect data they could.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They can collect unlocked data, but they can't say "these people wanted an unlocked device only". By purchasing the phone directly from them, they have hard numbers to provide. Also, how is the possibility of an OTA limiting future radios, etc. based on bootloader version not valid? Are they likely to do it? No, but it is still a possibility. And why would not buying it from Verizon be an invalid reason? You seem to hate them for locking it, so why would you buy it directly from them to help support them further in locking the device? I'd rather have whatever profits there are go only to Samsung.
imnuts said:
Next, you'll never have to worry about an OTA update breaking the unlocked state of your device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was under the impression(probably mistaken) that if we have a custom recovery installed that we wouldn't have to worry about an OTA installing itself? Am I incorrect in assuming this?
Thanks!
The way I see it, Samsung wants the phone unlocked from the start. They know that they can appeal to a greater Android crowd by letting it be easily unlocked, as it is on virtually all other flavors of the phone. When it comes to Verizon however, they have no say in the matter initially. It must be locked. This is the same for pretty much all other phone OEM's on Verizon as well. Hell, my old Droid X STILL doesn't have an unlocked bootloader.
By selling a "developer edition" that works on Verizon, it's kinda like they're sticking the finger back at Verizon while simultaneously making direct profit. Since they are the ones who made this beautiful device, I have no problem with this. They definitely deserve it. And they could opt to just not sell us these unlocked devices anyway, leaving us in the dust to deal with waiting on OTA's and never being able to truly update our device with custom firmware.
Either way if it weren't for you Adam and your team, this would be our only option. It's amazing to me that you guys were able to break Verizon's grasp on our devices and really stick it to them. As someone who has endured the annoying locked bootloader for a long time with my Droid X, it makes me grin ear to ear seeing their attempts to control our devices be foiled in just a couple of weeks after release.
Muchos gracias friend. And a big OORAH to you.
Old MuckenMire said:
I was under the impression(probably mistaken) that if we have a custom recovery installed that we wouldn't have to worry about an OTA installing itself? Am I incorrect in assuming this?
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The OTA won't install itself, but, there could be checks in place that require everything to be a specific version before they would work. Obviously we're not on a stock bootloader, which has it's own version and checksum info. They could put something in that keeps let say, the cell radio from working if the bootloader isn't the proper version, thereby forcing you to unlock and update, or be stuck on old software. I doubt that this will happen, but it is a possiblity.
ihavenewnike said:
Need to hire you Adam. Samsung will make major inprovements. I call for a petition.
Sent from my rooted Verizon Galaxy Note 2. FU Verizon and all tour BS you throw around.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the problem is not samsung its verizon...samsung does not encrypt bootloaders. verizon requests the device to be locked and samsung must comply in order to manufacture devices for that network.
imnuts said:
The OTA won't install itself, but, there could be checks in place that require everything to be a specific version before they would work. Obviously we're not on a stock bootloader, which has it's own version and checksum info. They could put something in that keeps let say, the cell radio from working if the bootloader isn't the proper version, thereby forcing you to unlock and update, or be stuck on old software. I doubt that this will happen, but it is a possiblity.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm running deodexed stock, is there anything I or a developer can do that would block any OTA, and block the notification and nagging that would happen?
Thanks again man!
delete
droidstyle said:
delete
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK I found that under application manager>all>SDM
The option to disable is greyed out so I guess I will need to freeze via TiBu
Thank you for this info I sure hope it works I hate the idea that Verizon can still bork my device.
Oops I see you deleted your last post, does that mean I need to hold off doing the procedure you posted?
These unlocked, developer's edition would make sense if they were available the day the locked version came out. Even if Adam and his team hadn't unlocked the bootloader, any metrics collected from sales or interest in this late developer's edition is would already be skewed because the next big thing like the s4 is now even closer making this device close to being dated before it even ships.
phind123 said:
These unlocked, developer's edition would make sense if they were available the day the locked version came out. Even if Adam and his team hadn't unlocked the bootloader, any metrics collected from sales or interest in this late developer's edition is would already be skewed because the next big thing like the s4 is now even closer making this device close to being dated before it even ships.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nah... the download counters speak for themselves.
1500 so far.
Maybe a source code would be available on the dev edition that would help the devs with the locked editions
Sent from my SCH-I605 using xda app-developers app
crazydad said:
Maybe a source code would be available on the dev edition that would help the devs with the locked editions
Sent from my SCH-I605 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The required source release will be the same for both.
Old MuckenMire said:
OK I found that under application manager>all>SDM
The option to disable is greyed out so I guess I will need to freeze via TiBu
Thank you for this info I sure hope it works I hate the idea that Verizon can still bork my device.
Oops I see you deleted your last post, does that mean I need to hold off doing the procedure you posted?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you see sdm 1.0 in your apps then yes freeze it! I believe on beans rom its already removed. I could not remember if it had it stock, that's why I deleted my post...however I do know it was there on the GS3 stock.
One thing nobody has mentioned is the fact that there is a 32GB version not just 16
Sent from my SCH-I605 using xda app-developers app
Killer Turtle said:
One thing nobody has mentioned is the fact that there is a 32GB version not just 16
Sent from my SCH-I605 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It doesn't say that anywhere in the specs...
I'm resurrecting this topic because as of August 28th, h311sdr0id, a recognized developer, reported that it is possible:
I would also like to report that I am able to downgrade our device from the ME7 OTA back down to the MDK (for root and recovery).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
These are the most details he has posted:
I can use JTAG to bring a device to a state where it can then be flashed with the MDK via odin. This is nothing new. JTAG has been around forever. It just takes the S4 to a sort of generic state where any stock odin firmware can be flashed. Whether it be ME7 or some other/future update, it can be done and I have recovered my SCH-I545 from an OTA ME7 update at least 5 times and brought it back to MDK to re-unlock and re-root.
JTAG isn't anything to mess around with or anything that can be learned overnight/a week/a year/etc. Its very dangerous. There are services you can pay for on eBay for recovering bricked devices, but there are very few people that do it. And even fewer than that who know how to do more than just unbrick a device. I myself am at the very bottom of the totem pole I'm regards to JTAG. But, I have unbricking/downgrading any of the S4 variants down to an art. And that's about all I can do really well. I am trying to work on the bootloader also, but it is very difficult stuff that I am learning more about everyday.
I mainly wanted to share this with contributors and developers and anyone else that really really needed their device to be fixed (for a good purpose). Or anyone else that was in need of this kind of help badly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After that, he closed the thread on August 29th. He most recently teased on September 4th:
Sorry for the delay guys. I have been downgrading phones (JTAG) and working on the new HELLS-KITCHEN in addition to this ROM (and three other devices I support).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
IMO, being able to downgrade to an exploitable bootloader is a MUCH more desirable alternative to Safestrap. JTAG isn't without its inherent risks, but many of us already have JTAG capabilities, or would be skilled enough and willing to spend $100 for a RIFF box to downgrade our phone. This is a topic that is VERY worthy of discussion.
I personally have a RIFF Box, and if I figure this out I am more than willing to "pass it forward"... I'm sure we can quickly get together a list of trusted volunteers to downgrade phones for other forum members.
Is it possible to JTAG to GPE or developer edition?
««I used to be a Serial Flasher...now I'm just a Cereal Flasher.»»
sokrboot said:
Is it possible to JTAG to GPE or developer edition?
««I used to be a Serial Flasher...now I'm just a Cereal Flasher.»»
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
developer mode is set via a efuse. Once that fuse is blown, it can never be developer mode again. All Verizon phones come with that fuse blown, so it'll never be able to be turned into a developer phone. Since they don't make a google phone edition that is compatible with Verizon's network, that's not possible either.
Sorry. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Noremacam said:
developer mode is set via a efuse. Once that fuse is blown, it can never be developer mode again. All Verizon phones come with that fuse blown, so it'll never be able to be turned into a developer phone. Since they don't make a google phone edition that is compatible with Verizon's network, that's not possible either.
Sorry. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know about the dev edition, but I've surely heard that the ME7 also blew a QFuse... yet that apparently hasn't stopped h311sdr0id.
Skitals said:
I don't know about the dev edition, but I've surely heard that the ME7 also blew a QFuse... yet that apparently hasn't stopped h311sdr0id.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the qfuse is checked prior to flashing, but not during booting.
Noremacam said:
the qfuse is checked prior to flashing, but not during booting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I posted on the RIFF JTAG support forum and got a reply from legija, the RIFF product manager:
As far as we know - this is impossible at the moment.
Writing dump from older version wont help since there are also QFUSE changed.
This requires a bit more time to be investigated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not entirely sure how to qfuses are used, or what was tripped with the ME7 update. But it doesn't make a whole lot of sense if all it does is prevent from downgrading in download mode. Per h311sdr0id, "I can use JTAG to bring a device to a state where it can then be flashed with the MDK via odin."
For this to be the case, it would need to check for a certain fuse for the flashing routine, but the boot secure values would need to be unchanged.
Which brings me to my question, what is unique about JTAG such that this would be possible, but you couldn't achieve the same results via lets say dd. What is preventing you from using dd to overwrite the ME7 bootloader and other partitions? If it isn't a hardware qfuse check preventing it from booting, what is the holdup?
Either way, I've got a RIFF box sitting on my table ready to go if I get a little more guidance on how to proceed
Skitals said:
I posted on the RIFF JTAG support forum and got a reply from legija, the RIFF product manager:
Which brings me to my question, what is unique about JTAG such that this would be possible, but you couldn't achieve the same results via lets say dd. What is preventing you from using dd to overwrite the ME7 bootloader and other partitions? If it isn't a hardware qfuse check preventing it from booting, what is the holdup?
Either way, I've got a RIFF box sitting on my table ready to go if I get a little more guidance on how to proceed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dd won't work because of ARM's TrustZone prohibits write access to that area, even with kernel level access/root. Only the Odin interface is capable of making those changes(and blocking Samsung's undesired changes).... except through jtag which bypasses that.
I've read a LOT to try to understand that issue, and that's the best I can come up with, so I may be wrong on a few things.
One of the areas that are worth looking to exploit is their implementation of TrustZone, to see if you can get free write access to the bootloader to downgrade that way - but it'd be a painful process since a successful initial exploit would leave the phone unbootable and in need of jtag anyways. If the exploit exists in TrustZone it'd be a pain to turn into a usable unlock.
Noremacam said:
dd won't work because of ARM's TrustZone prohibits write access to that area, even with kernel level access/root. Only the Odin interface is capable of making those changes(and blocking Samsung's undesired changes).... except through jtag which bypasses that.
I've read a LOT to try to understand that issue, and that's the best I can come up with, so I may be wrong on a few things.
One of the areas that are worth looking to exploit is their implementation of TrustZone, to see if you can get free write access to the bootloader to downgrade that way - but it'd be a painful process since a successful initial exploit would leave the phone unbootable and in need of jtag anyways. If the exploit exists in TrustZone it'd be a pain to turn into a usable unlock.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So if it's just a block in ODIN, wouldn't that be a software block? Why is the assumption that a qfuse was blown?
Skitals said:
So if it's just a block in ODIN, wouldn't that be a software block? Why is the assumption that a qfuse was blown?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's possible I am wrong on that point, however the error message displayed on the phone when attempting to Odin back to MDK suggests that it's a fuse issue.
I could be wrong - and I don't have access to a screenshot of that message right now.
Can someone please explain the entire concept and process of a riff box? I've seen a lot but not really understanding how this could help us with our phone. Hell, if someone could write a guide I may just buy one.
Sent from Navi
(sorry nothing to see here)
Sent from my SCH-I545 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
michaelg117 said:
Can someone please explain the entire concept and process of a riff box? I've seen a lot but not really understanding how this could help us with our phone. Hell, if someone could write a guide I may just buy one.
Sent from Navi
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's complicated. Extremely so. It's not really a practical solution and for someone who doesn't have years of experience; a quick trip to $700 paperweight-land.
Here are a couple links just for your knowledge:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1000175
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Test_Action_Group
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnA8Djs55Ds
nicholi2789 said:
It's complicated. Extremely so. It's not really a practical solution and for someone who doesn't have years of experience; a quick trip to $700 paperweight-land.
Here are a couple links just for your knowledge:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1000175
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Test_Action_Group
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnA8Djs55Ds
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What other things is this used for..?
Like, where do people get "experience" with riff box and JTAG other then just practice with phones? I never heard about it before hand.
Sent from Navi
michaelg117 said:
What other things is this used for..?
Like, where do people get "experience" with riff box and JTAG other then just practice with phones? I never heard about it before hand.
Sent from Navi
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would disagree with the last poster. It's really not complicated, you just need soldering experience. At that point, dumnping/flashing/unbricking are literally almost one click operations with the RIFF software.
The verizon S4 is kind of a PITA because the JTAG contacts are on the back of the motherboard, so you need to fully tear down the phone. But once you get to them, the solder pads are actually very large, and there isn't much near them to mess up.
There are certainly hazards, though.Yesterday when I tearing my phone down and popping off the antenna, the antenna connector ripped off the board. That thing is TINY. I had to use a multimeter to determine which of four points was signal and which were ground, prep the points, strip and tin the antenna wire, solder, and secure with hot glue. That is where experience comes in. But you don't need JTAG experience... just experience working on small electronics
Skitals said:
I would disagree with the last poster. It's really not complicated, you just need soldering experience. At that point, dumnping/flashing/unbricking are literally almost one click operations with the RIFF software.
The verizon S4 is kind of a PITA because the JTAG contacts are on the back of the motherboard, so you need to fully tear down the phone. But once you get to them, the solder pads are actually very large, and there isn't much near them to mess up.
There are certainly hazards, though.Yesterday when I tearing my phone down and popping off the antenna, the antenna connector ripped off the board. That thing is TINY. I had to use a multimeter to determine which of four points was signal and which were ground, prep the points, strip and tin the antenna wire, solder, and secure with hot glue. That is where experience comes in. But you don't need JTAG experience... just experience working on small electronics
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which is why its not really a practical solution.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2
Guinea pig?
I'm buying a s4 from craigslist and I would be willing to take a bone stock ME7 and send it to someone who has a riff box.. just want the unlocked potential in the s4.
Noremacam said:
developer mode is set via a efuse. Once that fuse is blown, it can never be developer mode again. All Verizon phones come with that fuse blown, so it'll never be able to be turned into a developer phone. Since they don't make a google phone edition that is compatible with Verizon's network, that's not possible either.
Sorry. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can turn a developer edition into a non-developer edition by flashing ME7. Thus, it is a soft fuse (efuse?), not a qfuse (hard fuse?). It appears any device can be turned into a developer edition *unless* ME7 is blowing a hard fuse that is checked by MDK as well. I doubt MDK is checking for a non-existent qfuse state. The only difference between the dev edition and the vzw are the early bootloaders. The ME7 Odin package replaces them so you lose the unlocked bootloader.
So yeah, I think you can turn a non-dev edition into a dev edition if you have an MDK and the dev-edition bootloader images. I don't have one to test, so this is just my untested opinion and will likely brick something.
You are incorrect. You cannot turn a non Dev into a Dev edition. Read up on eFuse vs qFuse and how they are implimeted and how they trip and what they do, what checks for them and when. Then read up on what makes the Dev version different than non Dev versions. You will see that it is not possible because the fuse is already tripped on non Dev version. No going back.
ME7 doesn't work on non Verizon phones.
Sent from my SPH-L720 using xda app-developers app
eskomo said:
You are incorrect. You cannot turn a non Dev into a Dev edition. Read up on eFuse vs qFuse and how they are implimeted and how they trip and what they do, what checks for them and when. Then read up on what makes the Dev version different than non Dev versions. You will see that it is not possible because the fuse is already tripped on non Dev version. No going back.
ME7 doesn't work on non Verizon phones.
Sent from my SPH-L720 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is correct. All non-dev versions have the dev qfuse tripped no matter the firmware. And for clarification... the MDK bootloader was never unlocked. It was an exploit (loki) that bypassed the security checks AFTER the bootloader. For the user, the end result was practically the same... it allowed custom recovery and custom kernels.
There is an excellent writeup by Dan Rosenberg who created the Loki exploit. I recommend everyone reads it.
That vulnerability in aboot was patched in ME7, and doesn't allow downgrades via ODIN. But the theory is if we can get around those downgrade blocks, we would get loki back.
The "easiest" way would be via JTAG. Noremacam pointed out if we get around TrustZone we could potentially get write access to the bootloader and downgrade that way. A TrustZone exploit is actually exactly what Dan Rosenberg for his Motorola bootloader unlock. Again, another excellent writeup on that exploit is here.
The Motorola full-unlock was possible because those phones had an inherently unlockable bootloader, where it could be unlocked with a valid unlock token for your particular device. When you legit unlock the bootloader with a valid token, it blows a qfuse. The exploit tripped that qfuse, and bingo, the bootloader is unlocked.
Skitals said:
The Motorola full-unlock was possible because those phones had an inherently unlockable bootloader, where it could be unlocked with a valid unlock token for your particular device. When you legit unlock the bootloader with a valid token, it blows a qfuse. The exploit tripped that qfuse, and bingo, the bootloader is unlocked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We now know there is a "state" the phone can be in that will re-allow the flashing of the older firmware. Instead of using a trustzone exploit to unlock the bootloader, a trustzone exploit could instead be used to bring the phone back to the state that enabled the flashing of the older firmware.
I think it's high time that I present myself. I'm not as noob as I can be in the forums. Yes, I don't know Android, since electronics isn't my field of working anymore. I have studied electronics and went for a master in Engineering Physics so I'm not a newbie when it comes to hardware.
Just that I got this (stupid?) 30-year crisis and went for an MD instead.
My foremost field of working has been Unix, but I'm schooled in lower levels and had done both VHDL/Erlang projects and have been really fluent in asm. But that was a LONG time ago when Motorola 68xxx was the ruler (oh, the ****ing best cpu ever made code-wise).
The aversion and stop for asm-coding came with Inter and that was around the 486-time when you had to fiddle with the memory and stuff.
I have kept parts on my knowledge. Did a SOC for a big company with a linux that I pressed in on 128 kb of Rom but I'm not up to date with arm-asm and I can say that the last time I ever coded something was around 1996 since I started with design/capacity planning of hardware and management.
So the time has flown by. I'm a C-coder. Never coded a line of Java in my line. I'm also from Sweden and I don't know where you are from but if you are from USA we have quite some different rules here, especially when it comes to consumer law that can be used for us.
Ok. Enough **** about me.
I called Samsung today and this is a summary of the conversation I had.
I asked them about why the consumers had to use the Knox and how to pass it as a developer.
He could not answer it.
I asked if I trip the flag, why does it forbid me to sideload my own developed applications?
He could not answer it.
I asked how to remove it since as a consumer I had no use for it and this is something that I have not signed up for.
He said that I could send in my phone and have it reflashed to a lower version of the firmware.
I asked for specifications about it and said that knew it's a SE-linux containter (because it is).
That he could confirm.
I asked him what for specifications for the boot loader since it hinders me in my work.
He said that the only thing he could provide was a downgraded one (see above)
I said that I don't want a downgraded one since all use 4.3 and that is the future.
He could not provide that.
I said that maybe this is a deal that Samsung has done with NSA to provide them with information since I don't know what the phone sends out since I'm locked out of the kernel.
He said that he understood that he would feel the same sentiment.
I asked him if consider us who are developing on a low lever as valuable people the brings the phone forward.
He agreed.
I told him that I don't consider tripping the Know-flag to invalidate my warranty since it could be tripped in Kies (as reported here).
He agreed on that and told me that I could then contact the service for a reflash.
I told him that the option left then would be to crack the boot-loader as with the rooting.
He said yes.
Note that this is in Sweden. But the info in any case is interesting since he very well knew about this.
So the info I got. Yes. It's a Se-linux container and it is reflashable. Since it's reflashable we now know that it's not an e-Fuse and can leave that question. Since it's software it's crackable.
Seems high time for me to start to update myself on arm-asm. I got lazy with VHDL/Erlang
Also, this has not been the field of my quite messy life. Going from electronics to computers and Unix towards medicine.
I don't have a J-TAG. What do you guys use? What have you found so far?
Do we have access to the very beginning of the boot strapping?
With that I mean the first asm-lines that the phone do as a start. Is that hardware or is that software?
In this case. Could someone please provide me with that. As I said. I don't know Arm-asm yet, but I'll try to freshen myself. Asm is asm and the last thing I did with Arm was working with a Xlinix that had 2 cores in the die and then a VHDL-part. Really nifty. But that was 10 years ago.
My other problem is time, like you all, since I'm guessing you work full time.
But can someone update me or give me links to white-papers etc on how the phone starts? I guess there is quite little about it. It's not the glorious days where you could get papers on the clock-penalties and how revolutionary it was when you could do an instruction on both the edges of the clock-wave.
Sorry. I type a lot, but I really hate this and yes, people can say what they want. When Ericsson still made phones I had a special firmware that showed a LOT more then what a normal user would get and how chatty the phones are without us knowing. So the option of spreading the "Samsung has made a deal with NSA" WILL scare people whatever you think. I have done "activist" things before and you just have to present it as a theory and get to the point where the rumor will get viral.
I was truly amazed when my complaint against RIIA went viral and the "Govermental institution for internet privacy" got over 5000 complaints in one day. Don't know how that works in other countries but every document that you send here is official and need to be filed. We also have the reverse policy that seems to be a bit unique. Everything is open until it's classified as not public. Not otherwise as it seems in most countries.
Ok, off topic. You have to live with that if you want my help that I'm offering here.
Where are you know in the dissaembly of the boot-loader? SE-linux CAN be cracked but if t's scrabled with hardware it makes it a bit harder.
Ok, enough from me. Want me to start to dig with the Cortex-chip? I know that Qualcom are more then happy to provide white-papers on their chip. Just a matter of cost.
/Paul
Download the open source kernel and build it from source. Use ida for analysis and the qualcomm and Samsung boot procedure documents are around you have to search though.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Surge1223 said:
Download the open source kernel and build it from source. Use ida for analysis and the qualcomm and Samsung boot procedure documents are around you have to search though.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, I've seen that some use a modded build-chain for it. Is that just modded for speed or what is modded and where can you get it?
/Paul
Btw, got a i9506 today. Will be interesting. Also got An Note 3 and that has 4.3. Both are "pre-knoxed". Need a good burn-in software before i start to root them. Know any?
I have not noticed this behavior before but although they are connected to a Wifi they still search every 15 s or so for others. I don't recall if my old one did that? My HTC doesn't.
But anyone now how the phone boots-strap? It's too late after having a kernel.
Since it makes it before it loads it, it's not a real SE-kernel because then the custom ones would work without even touching Know, would they. And they trip the flag.
So the check must be done earlier? Besides, are the kernel sources enforcing MAC? I have not set up a build env yet so that's all the questions.
And any good J-Tag that you recommend?
Double post. Don't know how to remove...
You might send it in, if yours is qfused like the ATT model they will have to resign the MDL bootloader with a certificate that has not been invalidated by the qfuse.
If they do that, you can extract it and we will atleast be able to flash back the i9505.
Sent from my i337 MF3 using tapatalk.
TheEgonSpengler said:
You might send it in, if yours is qfused like the ATT model they will have to resign the MDL bootloader with a certificate that has not been invalidated by the qfuse.
If they do that, you can extract it and we will atleast be able to flash back the i9505.
Sent from my i337 MF3 using tapatalk.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you still think it's actually an e-fuse? If they can "reflash" it as I got the info yesterday that means that the e-fuse is in the prom because how else could they just change it?
I'm still not sure about the fuse thing? Do we have that black on white that it's the case?
Because I think that they have just a small SE-Linux in the bootloader and then they can enforce all the rules they want. Your phone will behave
basically like a jailed Unix-account and the only success in cracking it is to prevent it to load. There is no other way.
I just sent a long and nice mail to Samsung. Will see if they contact me tomorrow.
I basically asked them why it's enforced on us private citizens and if we should start to openly question the motives on Samsung in different
mobile user forums. Because I will. Would be happy if someone would follow suit and help out.
Bad publicity is something that is hard to get rid off. Also, we never got an opt-in/out.
And if they start to get it it WILL scare them. I've done that before but not on this scale.
If need be I will drag them through our Consumer department. They are not so fun if they bite on the case and it just cost me time to write a letter of complaint to them.
"Freedom loving" Sweden will not accept spy-ware on their phones. That is one of the strong thing here. Consumer power and the equivalent for governmental issues.
Well, I'll report tomorrow. Btw, I got my new phone yesterday and it was a I9506.
They don't sell the I9505 anymore and the prel result with plain kernel is that it's about the same speed as Note 3.
absolon_se said:
Do you still think it's actually an e-fuse? If they can "reflash" it as I got the info yesterday that means that the e-fuse is in the prom because how else could they just change it?
I'm still not sure about the fuse thing? Do we have that black on white that it's the case?
Because I think that they have just a small SE-Linux in the bootloader and then they can enforce all the rules they want. Your phone will behave
basically like a jailed Unix-account and the only success in cracking it is to prevent it to load. There is no other way.
I just sent a long and nice mail to Samsung. Will see if they contact me tomorrow.
I basically asked them why it's enforced on us private citizens and if we should start to openly question the motives on Samsung in different
mobile user forums. Because I will. Would be happy if someone would follow suit and help out.
Bad publicity is something that is hard to get rid off. Also, we never got an opt-in/out.
And if they start to get it it WILL scare them. I've done that before but not on this scale.
If need be I will drag them through our Consumer department. They are not so fun if they bite on the case and it just cost me time to write a letter of complaint to them.
"Freedom loving" Sweden will not accept spy-ware on their phones. That is one of the strong thing here. Consumer power and the equivalent for governmental issues.
Well, I'll report tomorrow. Btw, I got my new phone yesterday and it was a I9506.
They don't sell the I9505 anymore and the prel result with plain kernel is that it's about the same speed as Note 3.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This link should shed some light on the qfuse situation.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=30781353
I believe this is specifically for the i9506 as the qualcomm chip in yours is a different prefix (though they are very similar in construction to my novice eye, the boot process is still a bit magical to me though so grain of salt all that.)
Sent from my i337 MF3 using tapatalk.
TheEgonSpengler said:
This link should shed some light on the qfuse situation.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=30781353
I believe this is specifically for the i9506 as the qualcomm chip in yours is a different prefix (though they are very similar in construction to my novice eye, the boot process is still a bit magical to me though so grain of salt all that.)
Sent from my i337 MF3 using tapatalk.
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Actually they hotted up the phone quite much: http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=5542&idPhone2=5371
Snapdragon 800, Adreno 330, Krait 400 @ 2,3 Mhz. Antutu places it next to Note 3 so it whops quite much.
Hi everyone!
I just want to share with you guys that I rooted my SGS i9505 with CF root and knox flag was tripped to 0x1.
I flashed the custom rom and i got bootloops and i tired of fixing that issiu. I went to Samsung service center in Dubai and they reflashed the MJ5 stock firmware.
Later when I checked in Download mode Knox flag it was 0x0. I guess I am lucky because I have my warranty back. Sorry for my bad English.
Bishkek said:
Hi everyone!
I just want to share with you guys that I rooted my SGS i9505 with CF root and knox flag was tripped to 0x1.
I flashed the custom rom and i got bootloops and i tired of fixing that issiu. I went to Samsung service center in Dubai and they reflashed the MJ5 stock firmware.
Later when I checked in Download mode Knox flag it was 0x0. I guess I am lucky because I have my warranty back. Sorry for my bad English.
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That is interesting that they reflashed the stock firmware without negating your warrenty coverage for the tripped knox flag.
The question is were they supposed to do that or did they just screw up?
Thanks for sharing that!
Please follow the next thrilling episode in the Samsung-Zone... --> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=48077682&postcount=1350
And about the reflash. They have offered that to me too if I "happen" to trip the Knox. So e-fuse, no e-fuse. Duck. I don't know what to think anymore.
As someone who's mother accepted the update to MI1 a few days ago, would contacting Samsung be a way to possibly downgrade the baseband?
Where in Samsung would I contact for this?
Sent from my SCH-I545 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
kalestew said:
As someone who's mother accepted the update to MI1 a few days ago, would contacting Samsung be a way to possibly downgrade the baseband?
Where in Samsung would I contact for this?
Sent from my SCH-I545 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
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Goodluck! US Samsung told me to kick rocks. (hence why I am posting from a HTC one now.)
Sent from my One using Tapatalk
Bishkek said:
Hi everyone!
I just want to share with you guys that I rooted my SGS i9505 with CF root and knox flag was tripped to 0x1.
I flashed the custom rom and i got bootloops and i tired of fixing that issiu. I went to Samsung service center in Dubai and they reflashed the MJ5 stock firmware.
Later when I checked in Download mode Knox flag it was 0x0. I guess I am lucky because I have my warranty back. Sorry for my bad English.
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just a few quesitons to you sir.
did you wait for some minutes or did it take some hour?
was it repaired or motherboard simply replaced?
if they reflash the firmware it looks to me they have a "restoreable" that will be reversible if you flash it, just to ask why didn't you ask him what he did
First and foremost, I sincerely apologize for making this type of thread, but I have done some searching and reading and I am now thoroughly confused.
My phone is the BNG3 version so obviously not towelroot compatible. After figuring out that was the case and it ain't being updated I stumbled upon Odin Pro, but it needs root to use. Seems like a bit of a catch 22.
So how do I root my S5, what is this Knox and why shouldn't I trip it, and what the heck is happening?
Once again, sorry for making this kind of thread, but I am just so confused.
Nemaides said:
First and foremost, I sincerely apologize for making this type of thread, but I have done some searching and reading and I am now thoroughly confused.
My phone is the BNG3 version so obviously not towelroot compatible. After figuring out that was the case and it ain't being updated I stumbled upon Odin Pro, but it needs root to use. Seems like a bit of a catch 22.
So how do I root my S5, what is this Knox and why shouldn't I trip it, and what the heck is happening?
Once again, sorry for making this kind of thread, but I am just so confused.
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I'll answer the second part since the other poster already answered the first part.
Tripping knox is just setting a flag in the bootloader to true. Basically it tells Samsung that you did something "unauthorized" with your phone and voided your warranty with them. The thing is, tmobile doesn't care. They will replace/upgrade your phone without even looking. This has been confirmed many times here and other places. (don't hold me accountable...yada yada...)
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fffft said:
But TMB, like most carriers doesn't care about Knox and it usually won't affect a warranty claim made with TMB.
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That's not always the case. Before rooting, I called T-Mobile a few times speaking to different representatives each time and asked them to explicitly describe their policy on rooting and Knox, and how it relates their JUMP! program (T-mobile's warranty/insurance and upgrade service) with regards to upgrading and general insurance repair/replacement.
EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM SAID: If the Knox counter is tripped we will know/find out and you will no longer be eligible for upgrading nor replacement in accordance to the JUMP! program. In fact, a couple of them went into further detail that I could be liable for paying the full remaining price plus a fine if I were to attempt to upgrade/replace a Knox tripped phone.
THAT SAID, the employee that I bought the phone nonchalantly remarked when I asked him about rooting the phone with respect to the JUMP! program that T-Mobile would honor the JUMP! program despite root. HOWEVER he said nothing about a Knox tripped phone. Perhaps he equivocated meant that a towelrooted phone may be accepted but a full-fledged Knox tripped phone may not.
TL;DR:
T-Mobile representative/"official" web-sources say Knox tripped phones will not be eligible for the JUMP! program.
ONE employee at a T-Mobile store seemed to be willing to accept a rooted phone with regards to the JUMP! program.
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fffft said:
TMB is a large company. ...
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I'm sorry if I'm coming off as a troll/unwise, I am being completely serious. I am a cautious guy, and I wanted to know the full potential hazards of rooting with regards to their warranty policy. Of course on a person to person basis it should be easy to find a rep that will let a Knox tripped phone slide. However, in my personal opinion to pay the price of the warranty + full price of the phone + a fine in the unlikely worse case scenario that T-Mobile holds their policy to the letter seems expensive, especially when I know I will more than likely keep the phone for 2yrs+. My conclusion was to not buy their warranty, root, and be happy.
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Just do a deferred trade in then when you jump. You skip one person looking at your phone and the people in the warehouse honestly couldn't care less.
Wow, thanks for the massive amounts of information folks, truly.
A couple question though.
1. If I Install an older version and root using towelroot...
Would I be able to keep my device up to date with the performance updates Samsung releases?
2. These custom recoveries/kernels that would trip Knox? What do they mean and what advantages do they have?
3. If I do end up tripping Knox, can I un-trip it?
Nemaides said:
Wow, thanks for the massive amounts of information folks, truly.
A couple question though.
1. If I Install an older version and root using towelroot...
Would I be able to keep my device up to date with the performance updates Samsung releases?
2. These custom recoveries/kernels that would trip Knox? What do they mean and what advantages do they have?
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I'm not sure on the first one, so I'll let someone else answer.
The reason I chose to use the root method that tripped knox is I knew I was going to flash a custom rom later on. I would really recommend flashing the CM11 rom in the forum. If you wait a few days, most if not all the bugs will be ironed out and it'll be just as stable as stock.
As to what they mean, recoveries are what you use to flash and backup roms (they can be used for more, but this is what most people use) and kernels would just add MUCH more control over the inner workings of the phone (performance, screen calibration, button tweaks, etc).
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Last question,
If I root using an old kernel would it be possible to install updates without breaking root? Someway to keep the kernels just get the improvments?
Nemaides said:
Last question,
If I root using an old kernel would it be possible to install updates without breaking root? Someway to keep the kernels just get the improvments?
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here are two threads concerning how to update without losing root and or tripping knox. i suggest you read as much as you can b efore doing anything http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2790292 http://forum.xda-developers.com/tmo.../experimental-how-to-root-triggering-t2845421
AleHanSolo said:
That's not always the case. Before rooting, I called T-Mobile a few times speaking to different representatives each time and asked them to explicitly describe their policy on rooting and Knox, and how it relates their JUMP! program (T-mobile's warranty/insurance and upgrade service) with regards to upgrading and general insurance repair/replacement.
EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM SAID: If the Knox counter is tripped we will know/find out and you will no longer be eligible for upgrading nor replacement in accordance to the JUMP! program. In fact, a couple of them went into further detail that I could be liable for paying the full remaining price plus a fine if I were to attempt to upgrade/replace a Knox tripped phone.
THAT SAID, the employee that I bought the phone nonchalantly remarked when I asked him about rooting the phone with respect to the JUMP! program that T-Mobile would honor the JUMP! program despite root. HOWEVER he said nothing about a Knox tripped phone. Perhaps he equivocated meant that a towelrooted phone may be accepted but a full-fledged Knox tripped phone may not.
TL;DR:
T-Mobile representative/"official" web-sources say Knox tripped phones will not be eligible for the JUMP! program.
ONE employee at a T-Mobile store seemed to be willing to accept a rooted phone with regards to the JUMP! program.
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Yeah if you call them and ask they will tell you that ... Its completely the opposite of what happens when you bring a knox tripped phone in for an upgrade or whatever .. Think about it ... If you have jump then you have premium handset protection which means you can throw your phone at a wall and take it to tmobile and get a new one . They would way rather get a knox tripped phone that they can resell without having to pay for parts or anything like that ...I have been using tmobile for years and they never ever check for know . Knox voids the manufacturers warranty not the handset protection. The sales people really don't know jack about anything . There only fix for anything is to do a factory reset . At the end of the day Tmobile wants you to have a device so they can give you a bill monthly . Its bad business to take away equipment that makes you money . Im saying this from personal experience and basic common sense . Plus I have a friend that worked at tmobile for some time . When I bought my GS5 I rooted it while I was still in the store waiting for them to finish my transaction and even showed the sales guy how towelroot works . Jump is kinda a waste anyway cause you have to have half your device paid off to JUMP , when you can just sell your phone outright to pay the other half off .Especially if you buy flagship phones . I sold my GS4 for 320 which was more than what Jump would have covered
I like this!
fffft said:
Fair enough and I appreciate the elaboration. You described yourself as cautious which is fine. It's an individual choice whether to rely upon common practice or only trust what is official policy. You can decide what is best for yourself.
My perspective is that life is nothing if not learning to read between the lines. Have you ever read the back of a movie rental contract? Or car rental.. or rent almost anything contract? If you took the worst case, they have the right should you ever be late in returning the rented item to literally bust down your door, retrieve the rented item and not be held responsible for damage to your home. Not to mention collect hundreds of dollars in penalties for "being forced" to repatriate their overdue rental.
It would be naive to think that is common practice or likely to happen though. And that is the lesson of worst case scenarios. It's wise to know about them, but you also have to make a judgement as too how likely they are to occur. The alternative would be to refrain from doing many common place activities and live something like a hermit.
There is no reason that you or anyone else need agree though. That's just my take on it.
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:good: That right there was a lesson in life!
spirodave said:
Jump is kinda a waste anyway cause you have to have half your device paid off to JUMP , when you can just sell your phone outright to pay the other half off .Especially if you buy flagship phones . I sold my GS4 for 320 which was more than what Jump would have covered
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Not the old JUMP. That lets me upgrade twice per year without having to pay off 50%.