Product identity. Phablet not phone? - Sony Xperia Z Ultra

Product identity and consumer understanding.
Grab a coffee, this could be a long post...........
Like most of us I spend a fair amount of time reading various reports, industry reviews and forum posts. There is an awful lot of confusion with regard to mobile devices.
When is a mobile phone a mobile phone and when is a tablet a tablet? Part of the sales problems with the in between range of devices is identity. Unofficially we have named them 'phablets'. This IS important. Far to many professional reviewers write about the size of over 5" screens as being to big and not mobile. I tend to agree with them. Hang on. I tend to agree with them when they review said device as a mobile phone. IF we could officially adopt an industry name and categorisation such as 'phablet' this would reduce customer confusion and also help with sales and customer satisfaction.
When the net book was introduced they initially came out with an 8" screen. Toshiba made them, started a whole new segment in the portable device section. Consumers then purchased them and moaned about the screen being too small! Next model came with a 9" then 10" then before we new it we where in the lap top range so customers reverted back to lap tops and the net book died.
Then came the ultra book with an Intel industry specification. That seems to have worked as the industry has kept to that specification thus there is zero identity crisis when one purchases an ultra book.
The Xperia Ultra et al are not true mobile phones. With this is mind such devices come under an awful lot of fire as reviewers compare such devices with, for example, the Apple 5S. rather absurd when one thinks about it BUT understandable because as yet the term 'phablet' is unofficial. it matters, identity matters to avoid wrong and negative comparison.
IF those who make 'phablets' call them 'phablets' and box them as 'phablets' the consumer can make a much more educated choice of purchase.
The Ultra and those of a similar size should be marketed as a new breed of device, their strengths should be highlighted and that way this constant comparison game wold stop. No one reviews a car with a motor bike! Tow different machines.
I would very much like to see an industry standard with regard to this situation and each device market under that criteria. So much criticism is aimed at the Ultra also Note and Mega etc as being too big as a mobile phone. They ARE! They are not too big if we call them what they are...vis,,,a phablet
A phablet is not a mobile phone nor a tablet so why should we not celebrate the difference and concentrate on our phablets strengths?
Comparing this with vehicle sales, The classification of a 'city car' is a small run about, A city car is not suitable for a family of six nor long journeys that is why car manufacturers came up with the MPU and the large family car.
An MPV would not sell well as a car yet cannot be compared with a mini bus. Bingo a new catagorisation of a vehicle. Same with the SUV and 4X4.
To Joe public this boxing of different vehicles makes sense and no one would compare a city car with an MPV. No crisis of identity. We like to place things in boxes to label things its human nature.
Words and correct identification matter. Sales and consumer opinion matter. To this end we could boost sales also have a greater customer level of satisfaction if we called out Ultra et al what it is and not what it is not. What is the problem with the large companies marketing their phablets as phablets?
Just another ramble.
Ryland
I posted this in another thread bit thought it may well be best in a thread of its own?

For me though, the definition is this:
A phone: a communication tool that has embedded earpiece into it, plus pocketable.
A tablet: a media tool that doesn't have direct calling capability so no ear piece to it. And plus it is not pocketable (must be put on the bag)
A phablet word actually isn't required nowadays. The only cause it exists was because Samsung made an ad for the note 1 ("a phone? Or a tablet?") so people starts to make an acronym for that. But actually they should be classified still as a phone because of such characteristics i described above.
Plus XZU should be still called phone because it is pocketable. I still put it on my chest pocket with confidence so yes it is a phone ^_^. Yeah it will be compared to an iphone but still, they have the same function so it is comparable.
Plus if you think about it, other than samsung, no tablet so far that promotes an alternative input like stylus, but they are still called as a tablet. So no a phablet acronym isn't necessary.
Sent from my C6802 using xda app-developers app

hansip87 said:
For me though, the definition is this:
A phone: a communication tool that has embedded earpiece into it, plus pocketable.
A tablet: a media tool that doesn't have direct calling capability so no ear piece to it. And plus it is not pocketable (must be put on the bag)
A phablet word actually isn't required nowadays. The only cause it exists was because Samsung made an ad for the note 1 ("a phone? Or a tablet?") so people starts to make an acronym for that. But actually they should be classified still as a phone because of such characteristics i described above.
Plus XZU should be still called phone because it is pocketable. I still put it on my chest pocket with confidence so yes it is a phone ^_^. Yeah it will be compared to an iphone but still, they have the same function so it is comparable.
Plus if you think about it, other than samsung, no tablet so far that promotes an alternative input like stylus, but they are still called as a tablet. So no a phablet acronym isn't necessary.
Sent from my C6802 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree I use my xperia z ultra as a phone, I make calls on it, however I also sold my tablet, because of I have no need for it anymore.
So if it's not a tablet why don't I want one anymore? Something no other phone managed to do, including note 2.
I guess the z ultra is truly an all in one device, a tablet that I enjoy to carry around everywhere with me because it's smaller, because I don't have two carry two devices, and last but not least, I have to because it's my phone.
I really believe that z ultra is ahead of its time having it for a few months now the size has become normal for me, even putting it next to my ear is not weird anymore like when I first got it. I believe in about a year or max two. This will become normal large size smartphones.
The only thing that puts me off the xperia z ultra is the word phablet.
I hate that word! It churns my stomach, makes me think of someone doing a large poo!
Sent from my C6833 using xda app-developers app

I agree with the OP
My brother has had two phablets, I think both CN built units - one a ZTE. Both have been in the 7 - 8 inch with full calling ability. These are way too big to be called phones and really on the small side for tablet.

Related

Rumor: Google to partner with Asus to create a Nexus Tablet?

http://androidandme.com/2012/03/opi...to-be-made-by-asus-include-quad-core-tegra-3/
Just a rumor. Makes you wonder if this rumor is true...
Just yesterday some Asus exec mentions about Jellybean
I can see 7 in. Tegra 3 (the one they announced at CES) turning into this Android Experience Tablet at $199..... but a 10 in. tablet for $299? Not only that but Transformer Pad 300 with Tegra 3 & 10 in. display will be $399....
Not only that but if we were to guess if those 2 devices are the one Asus exec mentioned about with Jellybean.. you also have to question what Google is thinking. ICS is slowly rolling out (heck, most won't see ICS til 2nd qtr or even after).. but if this is Jellybean launch tablet.. so much for ending Fragmentation (but it makes sense if Jellybean is 4.1 or 4.2.... instead of 5.0).
Either way, you have to wonder where "Prime" will fit in if all of these RUMORS or Asus's plans with Tablets are concerned....
I found quote interesting. " ASUS has a strong relationship with Google and I’ve been extremely impressed with the Transformer Prime, so I think this 7-inch Google Experience Device could sell very well. If Amazon shipped 5 million units of their $199 tablet in one quarter, then I predict that Google could move over 10 million units in the second-half of 2012."
I think also that the original Asus memo will be scrapped for this. if not then its direct competition to their own memo tablet. is say memo idea has evolved into this Google experience tablet. they joining forces to combat kindle fire since it uses a joke of an android OS.
one thing for sure, Asus is going to have their hands full with all these different tablets. this is great for nvidia though as their chip is now seemed to be used in majority of new tablets coming out. the price range prime is at, $499, still keeps it in the game. especially when you have people like the editor saying he was very impressed with prime. I think if Prime issue is as big as we thought, Google would've realized this and wouldn't of partnered with them. seems like Google has more faith in Asus than Motorola or any other tablet maker. that in itself says alot about the confidence a company as huge as Google has towards Asus. if rumor holds true then this will really increases their shares of android tablet market. rumor seems legit and very feasible especially since Google and Asus relationship is one of the strongest in the industry. that's why Asus leads all other manufacturers in update roll outs and having latest firmware. makes sense next Google nexus tablet is made by them as it will always have the latest firmware upgrades. plus Asus has one of the most vanilla stock firmware experiences. it doesn't slap bloatware UI like touchwize over the stock android experience.
demandarin said:
I found quote interesting. " ASUS has a strong relationship with Google and I’ve been extremely impressed with the Transformer Prime, so I think this 7-inch Google Experience Device could sell very well. If Amazon shipped 5 million units of their $199 tablet in one quarter, then I predict that Google could move over 10 million units in the second-half of 2012."
I think also that the original Asus memo will be scrapped for this. if not then its direct competition to their own memo tablet. is say memo idea has evolved into this Google experience tablet. they joining forces to combat kindle fire since it uses a joke of an android OS.
one thing for sure, Asus is going to have their hands full with all these different tablets. this is great for nvidia though as their chip is now seemed to be used in majority of new tablets coming out. the price range prime is at, $499, still keeps it in the game. especially when you have people like the editor saying he was very impressed with prime. I think if Prime issue is as big as we thought, Google would've realized this and wouldn't of partnered with them. seems like Google has more faith in Asus than Motorola or any other tablet maker. that in itself says alot about the confidence a company as huge as Google has towards Asus.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't really care how "media" is portraying Prime. Majority of the "reviews" from the media are about the same as that author (honestly, it really is a nice device if you ignore the signal issues)...
Anyways, if Google does release a "Nexus" tablet with Asus.. it has to be "Jellybean" as "nexus" tablets are typically a "flagship/launch" device for Android. So, if Asus were to release 7 in. Tegra 3 Tablet and.. even the 10 in. Tablet this year.... you have to wonder how they will market Prime & even TF700 and Pad 300 as they are on ICS or will be launched with ICS. They could simply "upgrade" majority of their Tablets to "jellybean" if they are working closely with Google... but if true..
7 in. at $199, 10 in. at $299 & $399, Prime at $499 (with wifi/gps issues.. although, it could be solved), and TF 700 at $600+.....
So, unless Asus fixes or finds a solution to all of Prime's current issue... MOST Likely.. or the future of Prime looks bleak to me.
But yea, Nvidia should/will be happy if Asus is selected to create "nexus" tablet with Tegra 3 included. Btw, I don't think Google has more faith in Asus over other OEMs... they simply liked the "price" of 7in Memo that was presented at CES.
Aren't nexus devices fully unlocked? Doesn't Asus have a problem with that? Not if google tells them not to.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
i also recently saw an article that LG was ''in heavy talks with google about a nexus device". idk if that means phone, or tablet, or your new hair dryer, but im interested in seeing whats next
stretchwookie said:
i also recently saw an article that LG was ''in heavy talks with google about a nexus device". idk if that means phone, or tablet, or your new hair dryer, but im interested in seeing whats next
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
saw an article on that also. supposedly its the new nexus phone.
some more details on this. first the name is rumored to be the GooglePlay. 1280x800 resolution. production starts in April and shipping date is in June.
www.droidgamers.com/index.php/table...ake-the-google-qnexus-tabletq-to-be-quad-core
Think it's a win win for everybody if Google can release a Nexus tablets with a decent price.
More tablets on the market = More people that can buy and want apps = More developers that now can put in some time to do good tablet friendly Apps/Games and know that it worth the time and effort.
The Verge and Andy Rubin about tablets
http://www.theverge.com/2012/2/27/2...wn-on-android-tablets-in-2012-says-andy-rubin
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using XDA Premium HD app
stretchwookie said:
i also recently saw an article that LG was ''in heavy talks with google about a nexus device". idk if that means phone, or tablet, or your new hair dryer, but im interested in seeing whats next
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HTC made the same comment as well...
Personally... I only see it as marketing ploy (including Asus's comment on Jellybean tablet). So, take all these rumors with a grain of salt...
I personally think Google is playing a dangerous game with "Android". Google "experience" alone creates a huge boost in profit to given OEM (and the device)... & Google constantly changing or giving "selective" boost will certainly annoy the non-selected OEMs.
Anyways, it really is the "price" factor that probably attracted Google to Asus. Not because they have "faith" in Asus.... Google "experience" alone will attract a lot of customers (think of all the Nexus phones) & the global image/reputation of Samsung & Sony (not to mention their ability to battle against Apple) is probably far more attractive & can put more "faith" in them when it comes to production.
shinzz said:
HTC made the same comment as well...
Personally... I only see it as marketing ploy (including Asus's comment on Jellybean tablet). So, take all these rumors with a grain of salt...
I personally think Google is playing a dangerous game with "Android". Google "experience" alone creates a huge boost in profit to given OEM (and the device)... & Google constantly changing or giving "selective" boost will certainly annoy the non-selected OEMs.
Anyways, it really is the "price" factor that probably attracted Google to Asus. Not because they have "faith" in Asus.... Google "experience" alone will attract a lot of customers (think of all the Nexus phones) & the global image/reputation of Samsung & Sony (not to mention their ability to battle against Apple) is probably far more attractive & can put more "faith" in them when it comes to production.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sony is a non factor in battle against apple right now. Sony already came out n said no plans for quad core or more powerful tablets to well into 2013. they just now released that clam shell Sony dual screen tablet after like a 7 month delay. the only ones who will make a difference and look attractive are the ones who are innovating and coming out with powerful devices at a good price. only Asus fits those shoes right now. only thing innovating Samsung releasing is that Pico projector phone, which is a niche market. plus Asus has closest relationship to Google than any other manufacturer. that's why they get latest updates the fastest. if Samsung finally decides to bring down cost of over priced devices then they will look more attractive. Asus is a world leader in PC manufacturing and parts. their notebooks and motherboards aren't regarded as the industry best and won several awards for nothing. so that alone makes them attractive to Google. along with their innovating line of Transformer pads. behind HTC with their new phone, Asus was seen as the best of MWC. Samsung was basically a no show or none of their devices really drew a crowd. with apple about to launch ipad3 this week, Android better figure out something. its about to be Ipad mania all over again. their advertising campaigns has no limits. sony cant compete with Ipad by still releasing tegra2 chip new tablets..lol
plus its clear no one Android manufacturer can compete with apple toe to toe. it will take combined effort of all android manufacturers to combat apple. Android as a whole and nothing less.
demandarin said:
Sony is a non factor in battle against apple right now. Sony already came out n said no plans for quad core or more powerful tablets to well into 2013. they just now released that clam shell Sony dual screen tablet after like a 7 month delay. the only ones who will make a difference and look attractive are the ones who are innovating and coming out with powerful devices at a good price. only Asus fits those shoes right now. only thing innovating Samsung releasing is that Pico projector phone, which is a niche market. plus Asus has closest relationship to Google than any other manufacturer. that's why they get latest updates the fastest. if Samsung finally decides to bring down cost of over priced devices then they will look more attractive. Asus is a world leader in PC manufacturing and parts. their notebooks and motherboards aren't regarded as the industry best and won several awards for nothing. so that alone makes them attractive to Google. along with their innovating line of Transformer pads. behind HTC with their new phone, Asus was seen as the best of MWC. Samsung was basically a no show or none of their devices really drew a crowd. with apple about to launch ipad3 this week, Android better figure out something. its about to be Ipad mania all over again. their advertising campaigns has no limits. sony cant compete with Ipad by still releasing tegra2 chip new tablets..lol
plus its clear no one Android manufacturer can compete with apple toe to toe. it will take combined effort of all android manufacturers to combat apple. Android as a whole and nothing less.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why is Sony a non-factor? Just because they don't plan on creating quad-core tablet (could be waiting for Qualcomm's Krait instead of jumping on to Tegra 3) doesn't mean they will be non-factor. Why does Google's Nexus tablet have to be quad-core? When it comes to BRAND/Image/Reputation... Sony is simply superior over Asus.
Samsung being a no show at MWC? Probably because they opted not to participate heavily at MWC since they plan on having their OWN Samsung EVENT (just like Apple). I think Galaxy Note was innovative.... & that's a product that's already launched & is successful. Also, Asus isn't the only OEM that has close relationship with Google.... Google will, or owns Motorola right now.. and Samsung did release first ICS Nexus phone just recently....
Winning awards at MWC or CES also means nothing. If they aren't priced accordingly, or if they aren't simple to avg. user (think of Padfone.. innovative but the market on that will be small with all the "transformation" & Galaxy Note simply provides everything that Padfone hopes to provide except the battery.. *which is only found through constant transformation*)... it'll tank. Motorola XOOM won awards at MWC & at CES.. and look at how that tanked.
Asus is world leader in PC manufacturing and parts? You can say exactly the same about SONY and Samsung. For the longest time, SONY VAIO brand was regarded as one of the highest quality.. and many of the current SAMSUNG PC lines are considered one of the finest in quality and performance.
Finally, ASUS simply cannot match Sony & Samsung when it comes to world-wide production.
Throwing in my 3 cents...
Sure, it sounds reasonable. Android tabs are foundering, and Goog needs to make a major move before Win8 ate its lunch (and dinner..and breakfast..). Goog's Rubin dude said as much himself at MWC.
Win8 preview has issues with integrating the WIMP UI. Mouse/keyboard frankly sucks on it, but it excels with its touch UI. It will do well against iPad, since it targets a different market. Being a full-fledged OS, it will power primary computing devices, whereas iOS/Android can only power secondary devices. Apple itself has no worry. The iPad has established a solid ecosystem, with good hardware, good adoption rates in both business and consumer, and large software base. It has the lead. Android has none of these advantages. It's not catching on outside of phones.
There are two ways to make people buy your wares: Make it good, or make it cheap.
Make it good: Goog can't improve Android to be a full OS overnight to compete with Win8. Similary, it can't conjure a large base of tablet-specific apps overnight. The geek set aside, hardware specs isn't that important for normal buyers. In short, the "premium" option is out.
Make it cheap: HP Touchpad and Amazon Fire have shown that cheap tabs will sell. It's a reasonable option to take a page from Amazon and launch a dirt-cheap, barebone device to jumpstart adoption rate, which will in turn get devs to start making tablet-specific apps. If Amazon and B&N can be successful in making cheap tabs, Google can too.
The point isn't to make money per device. It's to ensure Android's relevance outside of phones. That's worth spending money over.
Why Asus for its "Nexus tab"? Because most other vendors have bailed. Asus is the only one left that's actually still making new Android tabs for the mainstream market. And whereas most other vendors are still on the "iPad-parity" pricing, Asus has the angle on the cheap-but-good pricing, with the MeMo 370T. If Goog wants to go with a "cheap but good" device, Asus is the natural choice.
BTW, the $300 10" tab will come sooner than you think. Both Amazon and B&N are expected to launch successors to their 7" tabs this spring. Given that the main appeal for tabs is video watching, it's a safe bet that those will be 10" size, since watching vids on a 7" is pretty crappy. Both the Acer A200 and Moto Xoom Family are already selling for $350, and a barebone 10" should sell for less--ergo $300. Spring = 2-3 months away.
Of more immediate interest is the iPad 3 launch. If the latest rumor bears out, that iPad 3 will keep same pricing, then it means the TP700 will have the same $500 base price, as it can't sell for higher than the iPad 3 w/ QXGA res. If so, then Prime will disappear. TP300 will take up the lower $400 slot, and TP700 will replace Prime. We'll know in two days.
Q&A:
>Why is Sony a non-factor?
Because it was never a factor in the tablet market. Sony's MO is premium-but-proprietary, and cheap tabs just ain't its thing.
>Samsung being a no show at MWC?
Showing wares at trade shows doesn't translate to wares on the retail shelf. A Samsung exec is on record as admitting that its tablets aren't selling well. Samsung, like Sony, is still on the "premium" strategy. 2011 should be definitive proof that you can't compete with iPad on a price-parity strategy. All of the announced Samsung wares are premium-priced, some even more than the iPad.
e.mote said:
Throwing in my 3 cents...
Sure, it sounds reasonable. Android tabs are foundering, and Goog needs to make a major move before Win8 ate its lunch (and dinner..and breakfast..). Goog's Rubin dude said as much himself at MWC.
Win8 preview has issues with integrating the WIMP UI. Mouse/keyboard frankly sucks on it, but it excels with its touch UI. It will do well against iPad, since it targets a different market. Being a full-fledged OS, it will power primary computing devices, whereas iOS/Android can only power secondary devices. Apple itself has no worry. The iPad has established a solid ecosystem, with good hardware, good adoption rates in both business and consumer, and large software base. It has the lead.
There are two ways to make people buy your wares: Make it good, or make it cheap.
Make it good: Goog can't improve Android to be a full OS overnight to compete with Win8. Similary, it can't conjure a large base of tablet-specific apps overnight. The geek set aside, hardware specs isn't that important for normal buyers. In short, the "premium" option is out.
Make it cheap: HP Touchpad and Amazon Fire have shown that cheap tabs will sell. It's a reasonable option to take a page from Amazon and launch a dirt-cheap, barebone device to jumpstart adoption rate, which will in turn get devs to start making tablet-specific apps. If Amazon and B&N can be successful in making cheap tabs, Google can too.
The point isn't to make money per device. It's to ensure Android's relevance outside of phones. That's worth spending money over.
Why Asus for its "Nexus tab"? Because most other vendors have bailed. Asus is the only one left that's actually still making new Android tabs for the mainstream market. And whereas most other vendors are still on the "iPad-parity" pricing, Asus has the angle on the cheap-but-good pricing, with the MeMo 370T. If Goog wants to go with a "cheap but good" device, Asus is the natural choice.
BTW, the $300 10" tab will come sooner than you think. Both Amazon and B&N are expected to launch successors to their 7" tabs this spring. Given that the main appeal for tabs is video watching, it's a safe bet that those will be 10" size, since watching vids on a 7" is pretty crappy. Both the Acer A200 and Moto Xoom Family are already selling for $350, and a barebone 10" should sell for less--ergo $300. Spring = 2-3 months away.
Of more immediate interest is the iPad 3 launch. If the latest rumor bears out, that iPad 3 will keep same pricing, then it means the TP700 will have the same $500 base price, as it can't sell for higher than the iPad 3 w/ QXGA res. If so, then Prime will disappear. TP300 will take up the lower $400 slot, and TP700 will replace Prime. We'll know in two days.
Q&A:
>Why is Sony a non-factor?
Because it was never a factor in the tablet market. Sony's MO is premium-but-proprietary, and cheap tabs just ain't its thing.
>Samsung being a no show at MWC?
Showing wares at trade shows doesn't translate to wares on the retail shelf. A Samsung exec is on record as admitting that its tablets aren't selling well. Samsung, like Sony, are still on the "premium" strategy. 2011 should definitely prove that you can't compete with iPad on a price-parity strategy. All of the announced Samsung wares are premium-priced, some even more than the iPad.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's my point more or less. It isn't because Google has Faith in Asus but simply the "PRICE" that was attractive to Google..
shinzz said:
Why is Sony a non-factor? Just because they don't plan on creating quad-core tablet (could be waiting for Qualcomm's Krait instead of jumping on to Tegra 3) doesn't mean they will be non-factor. Why does Google's Nexus tablet have to be quad-core? When it comes to BRAND/Image/Reputation... Sony is simply superior over Asus.
Samsung being a no show at MWC? Probably because they opted not to participate heavily at MWC since they plan on having their OWN Samsung EVENT (just like Apple). I think Galaxy Note was innovative.... & that's a product that's already launched & is successful. Also, Asus isn't the only OEM that has close relationship with Google.... Google will, or owns Motorola right now.. and Samsung did release first ICS Nexus phone just recently....
Winning awards at MWC or CES also means nothing. If they aren't priced accordingly, or if they aren't simple to avg. user (think of Padfone.. innovative but the market on that will be small with all the "transformation" & Galaxy Note simply provides everything that Padfone hopes to provide except the battery.. *which is only found through constant transformation*)... it'll tank. Motorola XOOM won awards at MWC & at CES.. and look at how that tanked.
Asus is world leader in PC manufacturing and parts? You can say exactly the same about SONY and Samsung. For the longest time, SONY VAIO brand was regarded as one of the highest quality.. and many of the current SAMSUNG PC lines are considered one of the finest in quality and performance.
Finally, ASUS simply cannot match Sony & Samsung when it comes to world-wide production.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
price point will be the determining factor. we know Samsung tabs are over priced and has no low end sector really. the tab is still priced higher than comparable tablets with same specs or higher. Sony just released the clamshell dual core 1Ghz processor selling it for $599. are they retarded or something. no one will pay that much for s tablet using very outdated specs.
like said before though, no single android manufacturer can compete with Apple. it will take the whole Android collective to swing the tablet shares and nothing less. just like small businesses in America the foundation, same will go for the perceived smaller tablet manufacturers. As Asus is right behind Samsung in android tablets.
So Android really needs all manufacturers to sell well. only way to do that is catch up to the times and start innovating and coming with new features that will even appeal to apple owners. plus zandroid marketplace needs a huge boost in tablet only apps and needs to dedicate its own section for that. apple just recently hit a milestone with like over 25billion app downloads. in order to compete, the apps n software needs to be a bigger factor. if android just solely focuses on hardware spec boosts, we will never beat apple.
---------- Post added at 10:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:47 AM ----------
e.mote said:
Throwing in my 3 cents...
Sure, it sounds reasonable. Android tabs are foundering, and Goog needs to make a major move before Win8 ate its lunch (and dinner..and breakfast..). Goog's Rubin dude said as much himself at MWC.
Win8 preview has issues with integrating the WIMP UI. Mouse/keyboard frankly sucks on it, but it excels with its touch UI. It will do well against iPad, since it targets a different market. Being a full-fledged OS, it will power primary computing devices, whereas iOS/Android can only power secondary devices. Apple itself has no worry. The iPad has established a solid ecosystem, with good hardware, good adoption rates in both business and consumer, and large software base. It has the lead.
There are two ways to make people buy your wares: Make it good, or make it cheap.
Make it good: Goog can't improve Android to be a full OS overnight to compete with Win8. Similary, it can't conjure a large base of tablet-specific apps overnight. The geek set aside, hardware specs isn't that important for normal buyers. In short, the "premium" option is out.
Make it cheap: HP Touchpad and Amazon Fire have shown that cheap tabs will sell. It's a reasonable option to take a page from Amazon and launch a dirt-cheap, barebone device to jumpstart adoption rate, which will in turn get devs to start making tablet-specific apps. If Amazon and B&N can be successful in making cheap tabs, Google can too.
The point isn't to make money per device. It's to ensure Android's relevance outside of phones. That's worth spending money over.
Why Asus for its "Nexus tab"? Because most other vendors have bailed. Asus is the only one left that's actually still making new Android tabs for the mainstream market. And whereas most other vendors are still on the "iPad-parity" pricing, Asus has the angle on the cheap-but-good pricing, with the MeMo 370T. If Goog wants to go with a "cheap but good" device, Asus is the natural choice.
Q&A:
>Why is Sony a non-factor?
Because it was never a factor in the tablet market. Sony's MO is premium-but-proprietary, and cheap tabs just ain't its thing.
>Samsung being a no show at MWC?
Showing wares at trade shows doesn't translate to wares on the retail shelf. A Samsung exec is on record as admitting that its tablets aren't selling well. Samsung, like Sony, is still on the "premium" strategy. 2011 should be definitive proof that you can't compete with iPad on a price-parity strategy. All of the announced Samsung wares are premium-priced, some even more than the iPad.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. price point will be the biggest factor. Samsung can't play ball with apple at their own price point or higher. only way to gain more of a stronghold is to start undercutting prices while still having comparable specs or better. Asus seems like one of the only mainstream ones who know howbto properly price devices. Acer also but even Acer themselves unsure of their Android future.
---------- Post added at 11:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:52 AM ----------
wouldn't price point also be a factor for win8 tablets also in order to compete with Android and Apple? I'm sure win8 tablets won't be cheap considering their minimum specs to run their OS. win8 will do well with business sector because its windows. but it takes more than business sector to be successful in tablet market as shown by Apple.
how can Android or Win8/Microsoft take over and surpass Apple in tablet sales? makes you wonder if their head start and boost in tablet market has become too much to overcome. Apple could take a dump and label it the ipad3 or iphone5 and millions will eat it up. we need the loyal fan base like apple has. thing is with apple having Mac PC, MacBook, iPod, iPhone, Ipad, apple t.v. etc... they have endless amounts of money to pour into their tablets.
I think Bill Gates needs to really jump back into this scene. he was the one who actually predicted and described the original Ipad like 10years before it was ever released in a well known interview. bill gates and Microsoft alone has more than enough money to combat apple. As Microsoft is Apple arch Nemesis. they're the only ones with resources, research, and pockets deep enough to really stand a chance as a single company combating Apple. just look at how Microsoft came into the gaming scene with Xbox and took over as the best selling device here in the u.s. Sony is doing well also but for Microsoft to come out of nowhere, when Sony had such a huge head start, and take over really says something.
Apple needs to be knocked off its thrown asap or no one else will hold the title of best selling tablet device.
demandarin said:
wouldn't price point also be a factor for win8 tablets also in order to compete with Android and Apple? I'm sure win8 tablets won't be cheap considering their minimum specs to run their OS. win8 will do well with business sector because its windows. but it takes more than business sector to be successful in tablet market as shown by Apple.
how can Android or Win8/Microsoft take over and surpass Apple in tablet sales? makes you wonder if their head start and boost in tablet market has become too much to overcome. Apple could take a dump and label it the ipad3 or iphone5 and millions will eat it up. we need the loyal fan base like apple has. thing is with apple having Mac PC, MacBook, iPod, iPhone, Ipad, apple t.v. etc... they have endless amounts of money to pour into their tablets.
I think Bill Gates needs to really jump back into this scene. he was the one who actually predicted and described the original Ipad like 10years before it was ever released in a well known interview. bill gates and Microsoft alone has more than enough money to combat apple. As Microsoft is Apple arch Nemesis. they're the only ones with resources, research, and pockets deep enough to really stand a chance as a single company combating Apple. just look at how Microsoft came into the gaming scene with Xbox and took over as the best selling device here in the u.s. Sony is doing well also but for Microsoft to come out of nowhere, when Sony had such a huge head start, and take over really says something.
Apple needs to be knocked off its thrown asap or no one else will hold the title of best selling tablet device.
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Click to collapse
I think it's obvious that I'm looking forward to Win 8 tablets. To answer your question... Intels cloverfield/medfield x86 SoC will be deciding factor to Win 8 ... Biggest knock on Intel's mobile SoC has been battery life..... but if the battery life is near or close to ARM... You are looking at Win 8 Tablets that'll have fully functional OS to their PC counterpart.
If Intel's SoC is successful (well see how the Lenovo Android phone performs) & if the price difference between Win 8 and Android are in $10s.. instead of $100s (or in the ballpark of say current premium Android devices.. such as Samsungs).. I can def. see Win 8 penetrating on Android market share.
shinzz said:
Why is Sony a non-factor?
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Sony has the power to be Apple for the same reasons that Comcast bought NBC - content. Sony owns a huge portfolio of audio, video, and gaming content. They could develop an iOS like eco-system biased toward their content offerings that would create a profit stream that Asus would sell their left nut for. Why do you think Amazon is selling the KF at literally their cost of building it? Asus makes $75 by selling a tablet where Amazon estimates the lifetime value of a KF purchaser to be worth hundreds. Who do you think will win? These billion dollar companies don’t make multi-year strategic decisions about what markets to pursue based on someone else’s h/w. They’re the “dog,” the Nvidia’s (or Qualcomm’s, TI’s, etc.) of the world are the “tail.” An 8-core chip announced tomorrow isn’t going to change Amazon’s strategy for the KF. It's the same thing with BMW and their M cars and M-B with their AMG models. They're halo products for image only and represent single digits in sales and profit. They'd both give them up in heart beat if they had to decide between them and their bread and butter models like the 3 and the C. We on XDA are "M" and "AMG" buyers. We don't represent the masses and are expendable.
Sony's issue isn't h/w; they are an incredibly well regarded global brand. It's their historical inability to leverage their considerable assets. Catching up on the h/w side wouldn't be difficult. Their PC division does extremely well and has the highest profit margins in the industry. Applying that talent to tablets would allow them to catch up quickly. What Asus is doing isn't rocket science. Their cobbling together available parts from third parties to create a product. They own nothing unique h/w or s/w wise that someone with deep pockets couldn't recreate quickly. Sony has the resources to do h/w. Asus (and others like them) will never be able to own content.
Sony's success depends on Sony. They just got a new CEO so it'll be interesting to see if they get their act together. If they can, they have a very good chance of winning. If they can't, they'll plod along like they have been. And success or failure is measured in years, not SoC lifecycles.
P.S. - They are Google's most committed partner for G-TV. Coincidence? No, they see it as a conduit to bypassing the cable companies and delivering they’re enormous content assets to as many purchasers as they can. So it's not like their sitting in the bleachers watching the game.
shinzz said:
If Intel's SoC is successful (well see how the Lenovo Android phone performs) & if the price difference between Win 8 and Android are in $10s.. instead of $100s (or in the ballpark of say current premium Android devices.. such as Samsungs).. I can def. see Win 8 penetrating on Android market share.
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Microsoft can't/won't compete with free. All things being equal hardware wise, a Win8 tablet is going to be far more expensive than an Android tablet, because of the cost of a Win8 license.
However, that may well be a price consumers are prepared to pay - only time will tell.
Regards,
Dave
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk
BarryH_GEG said:
Sony has the power to be Apple for the same reasons that Comcast bought NBC - content. Sony owns a huge portfolio of audio, video, and gaming content. They could develop an iOS like eco-system biased toward their content offerings that would create a profit stream that Asus would sell their left nut for. Why do you think Amazon is selling the KF at literally their cost of building it? Asus makes $75 by selling a tablet where Amazon estimates the lifetime value of a KF purchaser to be worth hundreds. Who do you think will win? These billion dollar companies don’t make multi-year strategic decisions about what markets to pursue based on someone else’s h/w. They’re the “dog,” the Nvidia’s (or Qualcomm’s, TI’s, etc.) of the world are the “tail.” An 8-core chip announced tomorrow isn’t going to change Amazon’s strategy for the KF. It's the same thing with BMW and their M cars and M-B with their AMG models. They're halo products for image only and represent single digits in sales and profit. They'd both give them up in heart beat if they had to decide between them and their bread and butter models like the 3 and the C. We on XDA are "M" and "AMG" buyers. We don't represent the masses and are expendable.
Sony's issue isn't h/w; they are an incredibly well regarded global brand. It's their historical inability to leverage their considerable assets. Catching up on the h/w side wouldn't be difficult. Their PC division does extremely well and has the highest profit margins in the industry. Applying that talent to tablets would allow them to catch up quickly. What Asus is doing isn't rocket science. Their cobbling together available parts from third parties to create a product. They own nothing unique h/w or s/w wise that someone with deep pockets couldn't recreate quickly. Sony has the resources to do h/w. Asus (and others like them) will never be able to own content.
Sony's success depends on Sony. They just got a new CEO so it'll be interesting to see if they get their act together. If they can, they have a very good chance of winning. If they can't, they'll plod along like they have been. And success or failure is measured in years, not SoC lifecycles.
P.S. - They are Google's most committed partner for G-TV. Coincidence? No, they see it as a conduit to bypassing the cable companies and delivering they’re enormous content assets to as many purchasers as they can. So it's not like their sitting in the bleachers watching the game.
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Wow, you certainly took a quote and simply ran off with it as your own rant. Perhaps you didn't read my statements... More or less, I agree with everything that you mentioned about SONY.
My point was against Demandrin & was simply a question as to how.. or why SONY is non-factor? I was making a case, or point against Demandrin that it isn't "Faith" but simply the "PRICE" factor that attracted .. or is attracting Google to Asus. Because if it was based on "faith".. Sony & Samsung are far more ideal for everything that you have mentioned in detail.
foxmeister said:
Microsoft can't/won't compete with free. All things being equal hardware wise, a Win8 tablet is going to be far more expensive than an Android tablet, because of the cost of a Win8 license.
However, that may well be a price consumers are prepared to pay - only time will tell.
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Click to collapse
I agree, however.. I don't think & seriously doubt it'll be FAR more expensive if all things are equal in hardware wise. By being far more expensive.. as in.. in upwards over $100. Also, Win 8 is being developed to break into tablet market... I doubt Microsoft will charge OEMs excessively ...
Personally I would like to see Google team up with Samsung for Tabs
Super AMOLED HD displays please
shinzz said:
Wow, you certainly took a quote and simply ran off with it as your own rant. Perhaps you didn't read my statements... More or less, I agree with everything that you mentioned about SONY.
My point was against Demandrin & was simply a question as to how.. or why SONY is non-factor? I was making a case, or point against Demandrin that it isn't "Faith" but simply the "PRICE" factor that attracted .. or is attracting Google to Asus. Because if it was based on "faith".. Sony & Samsung are far more ideal for everything that you have mentioned in detail.
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Sorry, I just used your quote to give some color on Sony as potential player. It wasn't directed at you or anyone else. They're kind of a sleeping giant and everyone underestimates them. They could easily be a bigger player than Samsung in mobile if they could actually get their act together. The key word is “if” because they have a record of squandering opportunities. Appointing a new CEO (the former head of PlayStation) and buying out Ericsson's share of their phone business was a good start.
Look at it this way, if Sony approached Google who has stores set up to sell and distribute content and said "hey, we want to build the Nexus tablet and in return we'll give you access to all our media assets," you think Google would say no? Also Sony and Microsoft with PlayStation and X-Box are like Apple and Google. With W8 leveraging X-Box if I was Sony I'd be looking for a partner with a huge audience in order to counter. People still view Google as a "public service." While they give Android away it's only to get access to an audience for their other money-making products. Google's no more unselfish or concerned about their users when they make decisions than any other public company with shareholders. They may "like" Asus and Samsung but they like money even more.
It's all good.

Sony Mobile president: "...not afraid of lawsuits..."

'No (need for) Windows 8 because....'
"We are not afraid of lawsuits, because we have an extensive portfolio of intellectual property rights”
Sony Mobile’s President and CEO Kunimasa Suzuki
http://www.xperiablog.net/2012/09/12/sony-mobiles-new-ceo-says-no-to-windows-phone-8/
This is exactly what I expected of Sony. You may have noticed when Sony bought out Ericsson's share, part of the deal which was commonly overlooked, was that Sony gets unrestricted license to Ericsson's patent portfolio. Combine Ericsson's founding foot in the origins of telephony combined with Sony's extensive catelogue, and you have a patent portfolio that would make even Apple pee themselves. If only Sony could share them (though it would be extremely disproportionately unfavourable to them).
I read that in some industries, something called 'patent pooling' can be agreed. So companies as you might expect, share specific patents and prohibit lawsuits related to those patents. I read though that in the mobile industry, it's very unlikely though.
Any thoughts?
Oh.
I was actually wondering what are the major patents that Sony (Ericsson) holds?
You would have to think that along with Motorola for example, Ericsson probably own many of the parents that mobile telecommunications are founded on. These are companies that have been in telecoms a neck of a lot longer than apple and build much of the infrastructure.
I doubt apple can hold claim to any of the core technology (though correct me if I am wrong), I would imagine much of their "innovative" tech is based around user experience. However how much did they patent during the newton project I wonder. Sony however have a very long history in portable gadgets and particularly audio so it could get interesting if there were to be a suit I guess.
Personally I believe Samsung did copy apple but only because much of that 'copied' was obvious and the patents shouldn't have been granted in the first place (how can you patent a rectangle with rounded corners when potable gadgets have been that shape from forever). Strange how other countries are throwing apple's allegations out of court yet in the us they are upheld - I'm not implying bias btw, just that the patents system is badly broken. The funny thing is that many of the key components in apple devices are made by Samsung in the first place, I know what would be thinking if iwas was Samsung.
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---------- Post added at 02:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:30 AM ----------
batman_112 said:
I was actually wondering what are the major patents that Sony (Ericsson) holds?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A quick google found this
http://www.ericsson.com/thecompany/company_facts/patents
The problem Is how many are standards essential or legitimately licensed. Wouldn't fancy the job of going through them to find out!
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tarbyonline said:
You would have to think that along with Motorola for example, Ericsson probably own many of the parents that mobile telecommunications are founded on. These are companies that have been in telecoms a neck of a lot longer than apple and build much of the infrastructure.
I doubt apple can hold claim to any of the core technology (though correct me if I am wrong), I would imagine much of their "innovative" tech is based around user experience. However how much did they patent during the newton project I wonder. Sony however have a very long history in portable gadgets and particularly audio so it could get interesting if there were to be a suit I guess.
Personally I believe Samsung did copy apple but only because much of that 'copied' was obvious and the patents shouldn't have been granted in the first place (how can you patent a rectangle with rounded corners when potable gadgets have been that shape from forever). Strange how other countries are throwing apple's allegations out of court yet in the us they are upheld - I'm not implying bias btw, just that the patents system is badly broken. The funny thing is that many of the key components in apple devices are made by Samsung in the first place, I know what would be thinking if iwas was Samsung.
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---------- Post added at 02:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:30 AM ----------
A quick google found this
http://www.ericsson.com/thecompany/company_facts/patents
The problem Is how many are standards essential or legitimately licensed. Wouldn't fancy the job of going through them to find out!
Sent from my ST25i using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks! You got your first thanks from me! :good:
Wohoo!
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
Sony will never ever ever be sued for the same reasons Apple sued Samsung, neither will HTC, Motorola, and even LG. Their hardware is distinctive from the iPhone and they follow Google's hardware design guideline, unlike Samsung, who tries so hard to imitate the iPhone. First with the big fat giant home button, then S-this S-that. And they wonder why Apple goes after them.
apple cant even dare touch sony...
I doubt they've ever even considered it.
He also acknowledged in his statement that the company has consistently lost market share over the years. That's their greatest challenge....competing with the likes of Apple and Samsung. Forget Apple because Samsung is who they''ll really be up against. They need to first of all improve significantly on software and end this releasing phones with dated software business. It cripples the phones. Secondly they need to respect the idea of the flagship device and never again repeat the crap of a new flagship every three months or so. A joke!
Repeating any of these mistakes will just ensure that this market share that's already in decline, will see its devaluation accelerate. They are already too close for comfort to the point of no return.
Put all talk about patents to one side.
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lokenok said:
apple cant even dare touch sony...
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Click to collapse
Of course they can.
This is not how the patent litigation game is played.
It is a gamble. An attempt to cripple the oponent (just for now or permanently) and to cause as much bleeding and pain as possible. Means to kill outright (if they are lucky) or in worst case to get a better position in later negotiations.
For example, they are not afraid of Motorola which has tons and tons of various patents. They were not afraid of Nokia. They lost, but the gamble was worth trying.
Sony is safe for now only because they have such a tiny market share.
There are other reasons why Sony is currently not interested in WP platform. It would drain their resources, so Android phones would get even bigger delays. And currently there are no money in WP world, as there is a dying and desperate elephant ready for literally anything.
draugaz said:
Of course they can.
This is not how the patent litigation game is played.
It is a gamble. An attempt to cripple the oponent (just for now or permanently) and to cause as much bleeding and pain as possible. Means to kill outright (if they are lucky) or in worst case to get a better position in later negotiations.
For example, they are not afraid of Motorola which has tons and tons of various patents. They were not afraid of Nokia. They lost, but the gamble was worth trying.
Sony is safe for now only because they have such a tiny market share.
There are other reasons why Sony is currently not interested in WP platform. It would drain their resources, so Android phones would get even bigger delays. And currently there are no money in WP world, as there is a dying and desperate elephant ready for literally anything.
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Click to collapse
Considering Apple has released documents showing how they copied Sony, hell the phone even has Sony printed on it, they dont have a leg to stand on. Sure they could sue but they don't have much of a case vs Sony.
lokenok said:
apple cant even dare touch sony...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They dont need to. They can just sit and wait for Sony to collapse. After all they have so many times more money than Sony can ever have.
draugaz said:
Of course they can.
This is not how the patent litigation game is played.
It is a gamble. An attempt to cripple the oponent (just for now or permanently) and to cause as much bleeding and pain as possible. Means to kill outright (if they are lucky) or in worst case to get a better position in later negotiations.
For example, they are not afraid of Motorola which has tons and tons of various patents. They were not afraid of Nokia. They lost, but the gamble was worth trying.
Sony is safe for now only because they have such a tiny market share.
There are other reasons why Sony is currently not interested in WP platform. It would drain their resources, so Android phones would get even bigger delays. And currently there are no money in WP world, as there is a dying and desperate elephant ready for literally anything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok mister know all.
Sony would bangbus Apple.
Its not like what you see on media. Everything runs in the background. Even Samsung and Apple ****.
Drain resources?
Wp just sucks and has no customers thats the point. = No money.
I say it again, Sony would bangbuss Apple.
Verstuurd van mijn Xperia S met Tapatalk
mrsatan said:
Considering Apple has released documents showing how they copied Sony, hell the phone even has Sony printed on it, they dont have a leg to stand on. Sure they could sue but they don't have much of a case vs Sony.
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It is not like that matters much, there are 3242345 different ways to spin it in their favour. In that particular case Apple was just so incredibly lucky to get such a *censored* jury. Or maybe it is a home turf advantage, I don't know, but they equally did not had a leg to stand on against Samsung.
Such design or feature "inspiration" games are perfectly normal industry practice. Before "copying" Sony they did copy Braun: http://cheezburger.com/6563205376. And the new iPod nano is a "stolen" Samsung P2 from 2007: http://www.randomprocess.ca/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/p2.jpg
In a sane world it is not a problem at all, everyone does it, it is called "getting inspired and improving on" or simply "following the industry trends". Unless you get a chance to persuade a bunch of laypeople that this is something wrong.
For example, look at the car or fashion industry. All cars follow certain fashion trends and get similar design elements. It is perfectly normal and nobody sues mercedes just because they adopted edged design pioneered by bmw. Or flat door panels without moldings with sharp bend going through door handles. Or LED DRL eyebrows from Audi which possibly in turn copied it from someone else.
Anyway, they don't necessary need to even touch the design patents, they have a ton of insanely broad technical patents.
louis.b said:
They dont need to. They can just sit and wait for Sony to collapse. After all they have so many times more money than Sony can ever have.
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Click to collapse
They're not that dim witted to simply watch Sony die. Their revenue each year, with the net profit alongside well surpasses what they need to purchase Sony. And still be left with plenty of finances. They would most likely just purchase Sony.
Compare revenues this year, there's an $8 Billion deficit in favour of Apple. That's not including the Iphone 5 sales which will more than likely send said revenue soaring this year. Sony have released many new products this year, doesn't bode well right?
zodiac100 said:
Secondly they need to respect the idea of the flagship device and never again repeat the crap of a new flagship every three months or so. A joke!
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Which is pretty much what Nokia seemed to do (a long with putting all their eggs in the Symbian basket) and look what happened to them.
At the end of the day it all comes down to marketing. Like the new iPhone. Is not the moist technologically advanced handset out there but you can bet apple will shout about its merits louder than Sony will about their range. At the end of the day, prior to the iPod how many non-IT people had even heard of apple -the iPod itself is an example of clever marketing. As an MP3 player the original iPod wasn't fantastic -the sound quality was patchy, you had no custom equaliser, etc, etc. But people avoided more established audio brands including Sony in favor of the iPod as apple got the timing right and built a product many people found desirable. Its like jeans. What's the difference at the end of the day between 2 pairs of denim jeans made in the same factory. Probably not a lot. But put a brand name on one pair and you can bet it will sell a lot quicker due to the marketing undertaken by that brand.
If Sony want to make a major impact on the phone market then IMHO they need to do 3 things
1. Design desirable handsets with features people want and can't get from competitors such as apple like SD expansion, and equal or better everyone Elses build quality. Aluminium will always feel better quality than thin plastic yet apple make huge margins even though their production is outsourced.
2. Invest in marketing with a view to the payback coming in the long term (IMHO they missed a trick with the Xperia 2012 devices by not marketing the sound quality -many people use the MP3 function on their phones whilst commuting for example so why not trade on the Walkman brand more for example). Create a strategy and allow the mobile division to innovate without interference from other parts of the company - strong leadership is needed for this
3. Create a level of exclusivity by releasing a limited number of handsets a year, say an entry level, mid-range, and a flagship device with each having its own best in class feature and the higher models incorporating at least as good features as the models below in addition to their headline feature which appeals to their particular target market. If apple released as many phones as Sony have since the split from Ericsson there's no way they could create the hype and buzz around each new release. Samsung are a special case as their strategy seems more focused on flooding the market with devices but even so their build quality isn't the best which could haunt them.
RE the patents issue it seems to come down to who has the most luck on the day. It seems to me that apples big fear is someone else coming up with the next big thing as once apple are no longer seem by the general public as leading edge they have nothing to fall back on as essentially their only asset is the apple brand. Is not like they can supply components to other companies like Samsung, Motorola, and Sony can and regroup.
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I agree with a lot of what others think here too.
Another thing is, look at how many partners Apple has in making the iPhone including:
CPU: Samsung, though rumoured Apple is trying to develop it's own chip
Screens: Samsung, Sharp
Camera: Sony
Can Apple really afford to fight with everyone? (I mean more than just money terms).
p.s. I have no doubt that Apple would be intimidated by the Sony+Ericsson patent portfolio. If having a huge patent portoflio wasn't useful, then why would all these tech. companies be spending billions on buying patents? I finished my thesis on the patent wars in college a few months ago, I wish I could have gotten more of this in! :victory:
I just found this, one of Steve Jobs' best friends thinks the Apple vs. Samsung verdict will be overturned and he says he doesn't agree with Apple recent behaviour anyway:
http://www.talkandroid.com/131823-a...idForums+(Android+News,+Rumours,+and+Updates)
Steve Wozniak
It's not about Sony itself.
The big boy here is Ericsson,wich have almost the entire range of intellectual patents for essential GSM communication and data. (2g,3g,4g...)
And Sony acquired it
Apple is not so dumb to do this.
They know the smell of "danger".
@draugaz
Mister, Sony is among the top 5 patent holders GLOBALLY. There is no way Apple can even dream of suing Sony.

How many Ultras have been sold?

Does anyone know how Sony are doing with sales of the Ultra? I have not managed to find anything on the net regarding this?
I just wondered how popular such a large phablet is?
Ryland
I have no idea. It could be 20, 100000 or 1 million. Take your guess.
LordManhattan said:
I have no idea. It could be 20, 100000 or 1 million. Take your guess.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are at least 4 in NZ, that I know of - a country of 4 +million, extrapolate that to the world population - that means that there should be about 8000 sold
We'll never know because that will translate to how much tax they gonna pay lol...
Ryland Johnson said:
Does anyone know how Sony are doing with sales of the Ultra? I have not managed to find anything on the net regarding this?
I just wondered how popular such a large phablet is?
Ryland
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wanna know it too.
Going to say more than 200,000 units
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Sony has released its numbers for Q3. They sold 10.7 million Xperia devices in Q3 which means they sold, and will sell around 40 million Xperia devices this year, which is a lot more than i thought myself. How many of those 40 millions are Ultras? I have no idea, but at least 1/40 should be Ultras, so 1 million (yes, i'm only speculating).
LordManhattan said:
Sony has released its numbers for Q3. They sold 10.7 million Xperia devices in Q3 which means they sold, and will sell around 40 million Xperia devices this year, which is a lot more than i thought myself. How many of those 40 millions are Ultras? I have no idea, but at least 1/40 should be Ultras, so 1 million (yes, i'm only speculating).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had no idea Sony mobile where selling in that sort of volumes. I have been keeping an eye on Samsung sales and knock all other mobiles way out of the ball park. Oddly enough when magazines mention and debate mobile sales only three main names even appear, Samsung, Apple and LG. HTC even Nokia have been trying hard to play catch up.
Blackberry, Nokia, Motorola and HTC have all been in dire straits this past few years.
Sony has also obviously pulled itself up by its shoes laces as they also saw a very large drop in sales. I am pleased to see Sony making headway again. If only Nokia had made Android phones. Now they never will.
Just imagine the size of the Samsung empire! Jeez its a behemoth of a company. Must be THE most successful electronics manufacturer of all times not to mention its heavy and light engineering divisions. Korea became what Japan once was as Japan became what the UK once was.
No prizes for guessing what the new leading countries are going to be.
Interesting.
Ryland
Yeah, and Sony sold its VAIO division today. It's a sad day, but I think this will make Sony even better and they'll hopefully think twice before they do anything or think about releasing mediocre products. Sony should only release well engineered and designed products from now on, so they can get back to being the company they once were, that Steve Jobs admired and loved.
(Yes, Jobs looked up to Sony back in the day)
Sent from my old Desire HD using Morse code
LordManhattan said:
Yeah, and Sony sold its VAIO division today. It's a sad day, but I think this will make Sony even better and they'll hopefully think twice before they do anything or think about releasing mediocre products. Sony should only release well engineered and designed products from now on, so they can get back to being the company they once were, that Steve Jobs admired and loved.
(Yes, Jobs looked up to Sony back in the day)
Sent from my old Desire HD using Morse code
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sansui, Sanyo, Toshiba, Aiwa, Nakamichi, Pioneer, Rotel, Technics, Akai, Sony, Nagaoka. Denon JVC, Hitachi, Stax, AT, Sharp, Kenwood, TEAC, Onkyo, Marantz ............Many of those names in Hi-fi where legendary. Some have now disappeared all together.
Nakamichi made some of the greatest tape decks ever produced while Pioneer of old made some outstanding amplifiers as did Sansui. Sony AV multi channel audio amps.... So many now owned by other companies or gone for ever. Sony was one of the high street brands one could take for granted as being top of the range. Must add very expensive BUT one used to get what one paid for.
Sony has been one of the only brands to have their own high street shops as do B&O and Apple.
I have also been reading some reports today about Sony and the billions in sales they make every year yet some sections of the company still manage not to make a profit while others only make a few million in profit. Some years ago Sony nearly went under all together.
Rather pleased to see Sony now back on the right track. Sony have always been a niche market and never sold in massive numbers with regard to Hi-fi, Mobiles and TV's etc. Perhaps they diversified to much by purchasing all those Hollywood film companies?
I waffle, Sorry,
Ryland
Ryland Johnson said:
Sansui, Sanyo, Toshiba, Aiwa, Nakamichi, Pioneer, Rotel, Technics, Akai, Sony, Nagaoka. Denon JVC, Hitachi, Stax, AT, Sharp, Kenwood, TEAC, Onkyo, Marantz ............Many of those names in Hi-fi where legendary. Some have now disappeared all together.
Nakamichi made some of the greatest tape decks ever produced while Pioneer of old made some outstanding amplifiers as did Sansui. Sony AV multi channel audio amps.... So many now owned by other companies or gone for ever. Sony was one of the high street brands one could take for granted as being top of the range. Must add very expensive BUT one used to get what one paid for.
Sony has been one of the only brands to have their own high street shops as do B&O and Apple.
I have also been reading some reports today about Sony and the billions in sales they make every year yet some sections of the company still manage not to make a profit while others only make a few million in profit. Some years ago Sony nearly went under all together.
Rather pleased to see Sony now back on the right track. Sony have always been a niche market and never sold in massive numbers with regard to Hi-fi, Mobiles and TV's etc. Perhaps they diversified to much by purchasing all those Hollywood film companies?
I waffle, Sorry,
Ryland
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Great post. I also just read that Sony is cutting loose its Ebook business. It's pretty obvious they're restructuring the company and are cutting loose everything that doesn't make them a profit. It makes perfect sense, and i support the decision. They should focus on a few things, and make them as good as possible, and not do everything half assed and hope for the best.
although their ereader is good.
Down here they have a good chunk of the TV market,although I suspect Samsung is making inroads into it
Not enough sold. The Z.Ultra is a ahead of its time. If the screen was bigger in the same form factor would be amazing.
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Please continue...:good:
herogjan said:
Please continue...:good:
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You may well regret saying that:laugh:
Product identity and consumer understanding.
Grab a coffee, this could be a long post...........
Like most of us I spend a fair amount of time reading various reports, industry reviews and forum posts. There is an awful lot of confusion with regard to mobile devices.
When is a mobile phone a mobile phone and when is a tablet a tablet? Part of the sales problems with the in between range of devices is identity. Unofficially we have named them 'phablets'. This IS important. Far to many professional reviewers write about the size of over 5" screens as being to big and not mobile. I tend to agree with them. Hang on. I tend to agree with them when they review said device as a mobile phone. IF we could officially adopt an industry name and categorisation such as 'phablet' this would reduce customer confusion and also help with sales and customer satisfaction.
When the net book was introduced they initially came out with an 8" screen. Toshiba made them, started a whole new segment in the portable device section. Consumers then purchased them and moaned about the screen being too small! Next model came with a 9" then 10" then before we new it we where in the lap top range so customers reverted back to lap tops and the net book died.
Then came the ultra book with an Intel industry specification. That seems to have worked as the industry has kept to that specification thus there is zero identity crisis when one purchases an ultra book.
The Xperia Ultra et al are not true mobile phones. With this is mind such devices come under an awful lot of fire as reviewers compare such devices with, for example, the Apple 5S. rather absurd when one thinks about it BUT understandable because as yet the term 'phablet' is unofficial. it matters, identity matters to avoid wrong and negative comparison.
IF those who make 'phablets' call them 'phablets' and box them as 'phablets' the consumer can make a much more educated choice of purchase.
The Ultra and those of a similar size should be marketed as a new breed of device, their strengths should be highlighted and that way this constant comparison game wold stop. No one reviews a car with a motor bike! Tow different machines.
I would very much like to see an industry standard with regard to this situation and each device market under that criteria. So much criticism is aimed at the Ultra also Note and Mega etc as being too big as a mobile phone. They ARE! They are not too big if we call them what they are...vis,,,a phablet
A phablet is not a mobile phone nor a tablet so why should we not celebrate the difference and concentrate on our phablets strengths?
Words and correct identification matter. Sales and consumer opinion matter. To this end we could boost sales also have a greater customer level of satisfaction if we called out Ultra et al what it is and not what it is not. What is the problem with the large companies marketing their phablets as phablets?
Just another ramble.
Ryland
jah said:
Not enough sold. The Z.Ultra is a ahead of its time. If the screen was bigger in the same form factor would be amazing.
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I understand your point completely. May I suggest the following? Maybe sales are affected due to consumer confusion vis, its much to large and rather preposterous to be sold under the guess of a 'mobile phone' YET absolutely spot of size for a superb 'phablet'?
Second point. Sony went thin on the Ultra. To reduce those top and bottom large bezels would mean making the Ultra fatter. if we think on this for a while it is logic as the electronic components have to go some where. If we take pastry we start with a think lump not wide.as we roll it out it becomes thinner and bigger, same amount of pastry in both scenarios though, not my best analogy!:silly:
Hey. Much better example. The MPV, its not a car nor a mini van and isn't sold as either it has its own unique identity
Visit the sites of Phone manufactures and they separate, for obvious reason, a phablet from a mobile phone. Why not introduce that third option the phablet? Correct and accurate branding will help greatly with sales as we human being do love to compartmentalise things be it people, behaviours or purchases, all to do with out comfort zones.
Place an Apple iPhone 5S along side an Ultra, mega or Note3 et al and call them 'mobile phones' and............its just speaks for itself.
Now remove that possibility and introduce a new product category with the correct sales identification and you have a wonderful option. More than a mobile phone and more portable than a tablet, its a phablet..........away ya go..........:good:
IF only life was that simple eh?
Ryland
blueether said:
There are at least 4 in NZ, that I know of - a country of 4 +million, extrapolate that to the world population - that means that there should be about 8000 sold
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LOL... love the logic!
60% of the time... it works everytime !!
---------- Post added at 06:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:53 AM ----------
LordManhattan said:
Great post. I also just read that Sony is cutting loose its Ebook business. It's pretty obvious they're restructuring the company and are cutting loose everything that doesn't make them a profit. It makes perfect sense, and i support the decision. They should focus on a few things, and make them as good as possible, and not do everything half assed and hope for the best.
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Sony have their own finance company in Japan. makes tens of millions profit. Their manufacturing dep. don't make nearly as much. However their view is to "Be the brand of choice in the hearts and minds of our customers by delivering the best customer experience."
They said they didn't believe other electronic consumer companies did that, so they decided to stay in the market.
Interesting... I have had an excellent experience with their products... but not after sales service...

Gear S first thoughts

Thanks very much for this forum
I'm an end user not a developer but would like to contribute my experiences.
Apologies i did try to re-find a thread on use -case-scenarios and implementation but wasn't able to find that
Some background : friends think i'm an early adopter techno-geek gadget-hag.
I'm like no - I only buy a new gadget if it offers the promise to improve on things
I have a dream where technology frees one from technology.
Whatever I got an O level in computing in 1981, didn't really understand it and my "coding" was really convoluted compared to my more gifted fellow students (there were only 6 of us) who were talking PEEK & POKE and who bought (or had bought for them) a programmable Tandy "tablet sized" computer albeit one with a very tiny screen.
Fast forward a few years I stumbled on the Casio & Sharp Digital Diaries in a high street store.
I'm like "so you can store all that stuff in your pocket? - I'm in".
Then various iterations of the Psion - "like you can have a spreadsheet, database and contacts list in your pocket - how cool is that?"
So I overcame my computer phobia and then went through a number of very small laptop devices running Windows 3.1 or whatever
The Olivetti Quaderno was the best of these but I think ran a pre windows 286 MS-DOS OS (?), couldn't really do that much and was soon ditched by Olivetti
I tried other tiny laptops including Toshiba but their usability was limited by their connectivity - not their form factor
Fast Forward a few more years and I'm in a heated meeting with my business colleagues playing with my new toy
One says " oh have you got one of them new iPhones"
Another says " they said on the GadgetShow it was rubbish compared to the Sony whatever"
I reached into my other pocket and pulled out the Sony whatever
" yes this is a really good phone but the iPhone is a computer" ...... and could already do things I'd been trying to do for 20 years" (ok so I was an amateur gadget hag all along)
I'd swallowed Apple's tagline "it just works" but lived in a big city with 2 new Apple Stores where the Apple Geniuses knew how to help when things went wrong - rather than the current situation where the Apple Genius/Sales-Person tells you to "just google it"
Fast forward 5 more years (2009?) and i had a wrist phone from LG that was able to make phone text & video calls. I still have it now but it's defunct (battery)
I read on these forums how a user damaged the Gear S charger but the LG you could only make a firm connection using elastic bands)
Whatever
I'm puzzled by any reviews or comments anywhere where the author or poster asks "why would anyone want or need that?"
I'm like " if the use case doesn't resonate with you then shut up"
I made an expensive mistake buying an older PAYG Samsung phone updating the OS and installing Gear Manager - but it wouldn't recognise the Gear S.
Ignoring that mistake, acquisition costs of the Gear S plus my new Galaxy S4 was about $900 which I think is cheaper than an iPhone - very much cheaper when you factor in the costs of repairing damaged screens
(ok I'm not loving the Samsung build/design quality compared to the iDevices or others) but there is something not right about very expensive solid feeling devices designed to fall out of your pocket and smash whenever you jump out of your car or whatever. I've not turned into an Apple Hater - the MacBooks are/were the ruggedest laptops going - they didn't even need the "rugged" tag - but you only have to sit on a Macbook Air to destroy it these days .
Mac Alert "this device is not for sitting on".
Human interface response "yeah but it's so sleek i never noticed it was there when I sat down"
Gear S -" i won't sit on it or drop it because its on my wrist - like a watch but a phone too - what a fantastic idea!"
I am trying to make sense and consolidate all the sim cards & data plans I got to get my Gear S working but imho this device trumps everything .
As one review said - it's cutting edge techno but harks back to retro simplicity.
"all I ever wanted , all I ever needed is here on my arm"
The Gear S is fantastic

is it a phone or a 'new form factor' tablet? your thoughts.

I think, it is not a phone. It's rather a folding tablet, with LTE or 5G data connection that can make and receive calls through Google Duo, hence the name 'DUO'.
I think this product is primarily a folding tablet. It's less of a phone/tablet hybrid than the Galaxy Fold since it lacks the external screen.
This is sort of a new form factor. I have a Galaxy Fold and LG V50 Dual Screen, they are very different devices. What Microsoft is releasing isn't a foldable tablet, it's a phone with two screens, plain and simple. You'll be able to open two apps at once or use one screen as a keyboard, but there is nothing too fancy or exciting about that. It might look nice or be hyped a lot but there really isn't much special. If you tape two phones together, that's what Microsoft announced. I guess it's a new form factor, but it's not really a foldable tablet like some might say.
I would consider this an entirely new form factor, could be useful in certain industries.
the question is if "bootloader unlockable "?
(curently using galaxy fold)
Has Anyone played around with the Surface Duo SDK yet?
I think this is a new form factor of a more generalized communications device I feel like we're transitioning towards. It has the potential to change how we engage with our devices with the duo screen form factor. Given, this is not a new concept or revolutionary, but, I think we are at a point with software and processing power where people have more ways to engage with their devices in a way that makes the most sense to them.
I went from being heavily into custom ROMs and mobile gaming to needing a stable phone that works well with productivity apps (Office, Adobe, etc). I do more content consumption than calling and texting. A book like form factor appeals to me.
I can imagine having this alongside a Google Assistant-enabled earphones, smartwatch or Bluetooth headset where I make and receive 70% of my calls and text, and this device being more of a media consumption, engaged messaging and communication device where I do emails, social media, video calls, calendar coordination, etc.
avetny said:
the question is if "bootloader unlockable "?
(curently using galaxy fold)
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It is if you order it through Microsoft Store or Best buy according to this article
https://www.windowscentral.com/surface-duo
I wonder if Microsoft will bring back Continuum or maybe make it DeX compatible.
This coupled with a portable BT mouse and keyboard and the Microsoft wireless display adapter and you more have the ability to be productive without a laptop.
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I was excited by the Fold but I cooled off and have concerns about dust incursion and screen durability. I have actually been excited about this device because it's going in the direction I believe the tech needs to go but I feel this dual screen method will have better staying power and will be less prone to dust issues (Been there before and it sux)
Cheers
BR.
Brau0303 said:
I was excited by the Fold but I cooled off and have concerns about dust incursion and screen durability. I have actually been excited about this device because it's going in the direction I believe the tech needs to go but I feel this dual screen method will have better staying power and will be less prone to dust issues (Been there before and it sux)
Cheers
BR.
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Yeah. The Duo seems to be better thought out when it comes to real world use. I think as a first device of its kind., it is a pretty good start. Will there be issues after everyday users get it? You bet. That happens everytime you introduce a new type of device or technology.
I'm not going to jump immediately. I am happy with my Note 10+. I'm not going to jump to the Note 20 either.
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gernerttl said:
Yeah. The Duo seems to be better thought out when it comes to real world use. I think as a first device of its kind., it is a pretty good start. Will there be issues after everyday users get it? You bet. That happens everytime you introduce a new type of device or technology.
I'm not going to jump immediately. I am happy with my Note 10+. I'm not going to jump to the Note 20 either.
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Agreed, is it perfect (likely not) tho I think it's a really good approach to a folding screen device. As you said - Will there be issues for early adopters (Likely yes) it will be interesting to see how this evolves. I have one on order.
Cheers,
BR
Phones are still shaped like phones, but how much of what you do on your "phone" is related to making and receiving calls? This is a mobile device designed for the mobile reality we live in. Re-thought out the focus on what people actually do with their devices rather than trying to be a good phone first. New category, I'd say.
I make most of my calls with my laptop with Zoom, Skype and MS Teams! SIM card is just a connectivity capability. Duo is just another digital tool but one for productivity.

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