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Hi there,
I noticed that its a bit tricky to configure the PPC. Somehow I think the System-Programmer (MS) thinks its nice to hide settings from user.
I like complex property tabs. MS-InternetExplorer hides everything. PocketOutlook is nearly not configureable.... Or I'm blind....
Has anyone a Linux installed on his O2-XDA? What would you say about it?
regards
McNugget
Yes PLEASE, gimme Linux on my Qtec1010
I'm serious, I would really appreciate if somebody was able to have my Qtec synchronise with Linux.
And secondly wouldn't it be easier if this whole PPC was open source, so that bugs would be solved quickly?
Has anyone tried to put Qtopia (from the Zaurus) on the Qtec? It seems that it supports the ARM-processor.
Regards & the obvious best seasons wishes to you & your beloved ...
Rik
Quote of the day:
"Linux is like a Wigwam: no windows, no gates ... apache inside."
last i heard then they opensource linux for xda were at such an early state
that there were no phone support or even gui just a console
but there are more then one of these products
maybe some of them have gotten longer
There is a lot of progress going on the Linux front. The biggest challenge is understanding the RIL ( radio Interface layer) on the HTC based devices(Most XDAs and MDAs) and writting a kernel to it.
There will be many new contenders this years as NTT DOCOMO has declared it wants Linux based phones in the Japanese market. So they will come out pretty soon.
Look at the following links:
http://gpe.handhelds.org/projects/?PHPSESSID=08727f78426b030303d6b74a11fde7a2
I have seen and made a call on a device using this OS, but could not get the code!
http://www.mizi.com/en/prod/embed/embedded_smart.htm
and for the more adventurous:
http://www.mizi.com/en/developer/s3c2410x/index_html
very informative links and nice readings
thank you very much ...
what you think might be the threat coming from Open Source solutions to the mobile market (especially phones) - do you have some reports/papers/studies on that ??
I mean, Japan and Asia has always been a niche market where many product and electronics gadgets existed but at the same time they had problems with adaptation elsewhere
regards,
monika
I have been on a client for the past month working on a special project and they did not allow me to browse outside the network( squnk works!)
I have seen and played with the linux devices from HTC and other companies, but was told they have a contractual obligation not to release the code or info on the RIL so as not to dillute the PPC and WM markets( I wonder by whom :roll:...)
Still I am trying to get one of the devices, Reverse Engineer the code and post it here... But it will be tricky, but worth it!
Does somebody know a complete image based on GNU Linux kernel and for example Qtopia for an HTC device?
Keying in a telephone number in command mode would be so l33t. :lol:
hey everyone. ive been googleing and googleing for weeks and weeks trying to educate myself on how the android build process works and how a device tree works. what i have been able to figure out is the device configuration has been moved form /vendor to /device between eclair and froyo. although i am very lost and confused. i have gone through source.android.com several times, and i have also gone through the very outdated platform developers guide. right now i am trying to teach myself how to set up a build environment for a real device. im doing this purely out of learning experience so i can apply it to something useful in the future. i have several devices at my disposal (epic 4g, droid1, atrix 4g, acer iconia a500) any of which i would be willing to use for learning. does anyone have any recommendations on reading material im missing? any good place to ask stupid questions? there is lots of documentation out there but i just cant seem to find it. where should i go from here? i wish i could just take a class on this. because there is so much information out there i have no idea where to go from here.
I was actually going to make a post along the same lines as yours. From what I have found the pinned post in this forum from cyanogen about cooking is probably the most useful information to get started.
The issue I have is a forum just on this topic alone. It would be nice to have a forum that only discussed merging manufacturers released code into AOSP. By googling I have found the Atrix source code that Motorola has released and also the AOSP itself. By reading cyanogens post and mucking around with the source this should give you a good start.
Good luck and if you come across a forum with just this topic discussed post a link.
Also for setting up an environment this post is good for getting everything setup to compile what you need. It is a post to compile CM7 but it can be used for what you are looking for.
gh123man said:
hey everyone. ive been googleing and googleing for weeks and weeks trying to educate myself on how the android build process works and how a device tree works. what i have been able to figure out is the device configuration has been moved form /vendor to /device between eclair and froyo. although i am very lost and confused. i have gone through source.android.com several times, and i have also gone through the very outdated platform developers guide. right now i am trying to teach myself how to set up a build environment for a real device. im doing this purely out of learning experience so i can apply it to something useful in the future. i have several devices at my disposal (epic 4g, droid1, atrix 4g, acer iconia a500) any of which i would be willing to use for learning. does anyone have any recommendations on reading material im missing? any good place to ask stupid questions? there is lots of documentation out there but i just cant seem to find it. where should i go from here? i wish i could just take a class on this. because there is so much information out there i have no idea where to go from here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
2nd hit googling android porting.
http://www.netmite.com/android/mydroid/development/pdk/docs/
Nothing is truly "update-to-date" there are somethings that your going to have to do your homework on. That is a very detailed guide on the basics of getting a port going and working towards the "device tree"
Unless the device tree is from a google nexus phone, then most likely the trees are not perfect. Cyanogenmod for example, the devs that work hard on creating those device trees don't just know what will and won't work. Each phone is different alot of trial and error. Do you build a binary from source, or do you use prop files already on the phone, that is all based on what is trying to be done and how much you know. Eventually you figure it out. It hard to just say what creates the device tree. Its just like someone asking for tips on how to write Java.
Bottom line, just do it and have fun.
lithid-cm said:
2nd hit googling android porting.
http://www.netmite.com/android/mydroid/development/pdk/docs/
Nothing is truly "update-to-date" there are somethings that your going to have to do your homework on. That is a very detailed guide on the basics of getting a port going and working towards the "device tree"
Unless the device tree is from a google nexus phone, then most likely the trees are not perfect. Cyanogenmod for example, the devs that work hard on creating those device trees don't just know what will and won't work. Each phone is different alot of trial and error. Do you build a binary from source, or do you use prop files already on the phone, that is all based on what is trying to be done and how much you know. Eventually you figure it out. It hard to just say what creates the device tree. Its just like someone asking for tips on how to write Java.
Bottom line, just do it and have fun.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks for the response. maybe im just searching for the wrong things... that and its not sinking in to my thick skull lol.. ill keep reading. im just trying to learn how it all works. some of the things i read either dont make sense or are really vague. i am currently cramming java into my head for app development. i suppose thats a good place to start. my end goal is to contribute.
gh123man said:
hey everyone. ive been googleing and googleing for weeks and weeks trying to educate myself on how the android build process works and how a device tree works. what i have been able to figure out is the device configuration has been moved form /vendor to /device between eclair and froyo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am trying to figure out how to build/port ROMs too. It has been a nightmare trying to study that. Not enough material, or the material is incomplete. Most of the tutorials are meant to be done with nexus devices wich has a native suport from android. No such a help for someone who is seeking a way to build for a new, unusual device (like me).
I didn't get this "three" thing. And, In my case, it is a little bit weirder because I am trying to build for a MTK6577 processor. (Some may say I am screwed).
although i am very lost and confused. i have gone through source.android.com several times, and i have also gone through the very outdated platform developers guide.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Many years ago I said: there will be a Time when people will know the "internet junkyard" or the "virtual online trash can".
I was reffering to outdated information. This information is available now and is not completely reliable because it is old and no one got rid of it.
It is something that is new (although the information is old, the event is pretty new) and we must learn how to deal with it. Unfortunally.
To de development point of view, I've been facing an incredible hard time just to find new information about building a custom rom from the source or porting an existent one.
I know i didn't help at all, but, I felt I must say that.
Anyway, knowing about anything, let me know.
Best regards!
gh123man said:
hey everyone. ive been googleing and googleing for weeks and weeks trying to educate myself on how the android build process works and how a device tree works. what i have been able to figure out is the device configuration has been moved form /vendor to /device between eclair and froyo. although i am very lost and confused. i have gone through source.android.com several times, and i have also gone through the very outdated platform developers guide. right now i am trying to teach myself how to set up a build environment for a real device. im doing this purely out of learning experience so i can apply it to something useful in the future. i have several devices at my disposal (epic 4g, droid1, atrix 4g, acer iconia a500) any of which i would be willing to use for learning. does anyone have any recommendations on reading material im missing? any good place to ask stupid questions? there is lots of documentation out there but i just cant seem to find it. where should i go from here? i wish i could just take a class on this. because there is so much information out there i have no idea where to go from here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here is the Small Guide Made to Begin from scratch for Android Device Tree Building
One thing that bothers me about my Android phone is the opaque, closed-source baseband firmware ("radio" as it's often called here). Since the baseband is interposed between the OS and most hardware functions, its firmware presents a major unknown in the total security of the device.
It's unlikely that the source code for any of this baseband firmware is going to be released, and the open source OsmocomBB baseband is a long way off from supporting Android or the dominant Qualcomm chips. But I would settle for decompiling an existing baseband firmware image, so that I can start to understand some things about it's behavior, and perhaps compile modified versions.
Does anyone know where to begin with this? Many thanks.
I wish somebody participated in this with you. I need it also /
funkydaemon said:
One thing that bothers me about my Android phone is the opaque, closed-source baseband firmware ("radio" as it's often called here). Since the baseband is interposed between the OS and most hardware functions, its firmware presents a major unknown in the total security of the device.
It's unlikely that the source code for any of this baseband firmware is going to be released, and the open source OsmocomBB baseband is a long way off from supporting Android or the dominant Qualcomm chips. But I would settle for decompiling an existing baseband firmware image, so that I can start to understand some things about it's behavior, and perhaps compile modified versions.
Does anyone know where to begin with this? Many thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good idea. Although most probably it'll all be native C code compiled into binary form, not amenable to decompiling.
So you'd probably need a very good debugger and a system call tracing facility in strace.
I guess hell might also break loose because SIM encryption(?), voice encoders(?), network locking(?) and god knows how many of those proprietary tidbits may be sitting in there.
SIM encryption broken leading to duplication of SIMs and leading to smartcard encryption and open source tools to reprogram your credit cards with more money.
That's not hell. That's hell in a hand basket with us enjoying the ride
Keep us posted. It's guys like you who think outside the radio that gave us the TV
For Qualcomm based devices you need to decompile Hexagon code.
For other Intel XMM6260 etc based devices suffice IDA (ARM).
In both cases the raw binary blobs may be encrypted, but extractable from running machine.
I'm working on it, in a fashion, and am writing up a document compiling everything that has been done on cellphone radio hacking. I've not found much on baseband firmware; there's a lot of info out there but it's been tough to find amongst all the other hacking that has similar keywords. Currently most quality info around this subject involve an extra (and depending on desired features; expensive) bit of hardware and two open source software packages with their decencies. As the hardware is currently outside my budget ($300 for the best bang for buck) I'll be working on getting the software to recognize the hardware built in my Android devices. Provided that all goes well I should be able to read and write on the frequencies that the in-built hardware supports and hopefully, as I always get an identical device when getting one, read and write with my backup android device. Be warned if you decide to follow me down this path; there are laws restricting what non-licensed persons/companys can do on certain RF frequencies and this depends on where you live, I'm no expert only a person capable of reading lots of dry informative documents, provided I do achieve direct contact between devices this hack could (and likely will) fry one of my antennas so be warned you'll likely do the same :banghead: so do this on an old device that you don't care about before ever trying on something you use daily. With the warning out of the way lets get down to the quick version.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Currently all the developing I've found educational has involved the before mentioned "expensive hardware" known as software defined radio, shortened to SDR, go a head and pop open a new tab and Google search either. You'll eventually find that cellphone manufacturers have likely already put these into many devices. You'll also hopefully find the two kickstarters, HackRF ~$300 and bladeRF ~$400, these are likely what I'll be saving up for; HackRF for sure as the next release will likely be able to send and receive at the same time instead of switching quickly between modes. If you dig deep enough you'll find a blog post from a hacker that plugged an Android into a much more expensive SDR and was able to place calls and send/receive text; the blog poster stated something to the effect that this was not a useful hack but I believe that it's a great proof of concept and totally worth another look. However, this hacker has also almost been sewed for some of the demonstrations with this kind of technology involving the capture and description of calls and texts so tread carefully.
The software I mentioned before boil down to GNU Radio and Open BTS; there's dependencies for each but all seem to be installable on Linux running on top of Android. Furthermore I see that someone (I'll edit your name in in a sec Edit: idcrisis ) previous mentioned wanting c or c++ support, GNU Radio uses these languages perhaps I can ask for some help when I get a little further in porting this to run without Linux in the middle so much? I think if we use the GPS to set the time then the signal shouldn't drift to much.
I'm using an app called Debian Kit to give me a flavor of Linux called Squeeze for testing the software. If you choose to try what I'm doing then make use of the readme that the developer wrote or the guide I wrote for general Linux on Android installation and interaction fund in my sig to get started. If you want access to the document I'm compiling then you'll want to PM me at this moment as the chances of hardware frying is high and I'll share a link to Google docs; I'll be releasing a full guide when I've figured out how to avoid damage.
Eventually I hope to port many of the functions in GNU Radio into an app that makes use of internal hardware. Currently I've found a few that make use of hardware plugged into Android through USB "on the go" or "host mode" just search "RTL SDR" in the app store and you'll see'em, but, currently nothing making use of internal hardware. If any are interested in joining forces and helping figure out how to do all this I'd be glad to offer any support I can.
Other things related to cellular antenna hacking other than the above mentioned software and hardware that I'm compiling into the same document. Well this is where we get into the parts I'm hitting the wall on. It looks like I'll have to get into Kernel modification as this is one of the things used to communicate between software and hardware. There's also the flashable files known as radios and I'll be digging further in how these files are modified.
Basically this is a very tough question to answer and has taken many months of reading, searching, and more reading to get this close bit if we all work together I know that we'll be able to modify how the antennas in our devices work.
Edit 01142014- Found a guide on reverse engineering embedded device firmware, the guide is on a router but as the chips in our phones are embedded perhaps the steps are similar
http://www.devttys0.com/2011/05/reverse-engineering-firmware-linksys-wag120n/
Sent from either my SPH-D700 or myTouch3gs or M470BSA
Guide for running Linux on Android that I'm writing:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2240397
^^ NO! The embedded chips in the Linksys routers are MIPS based and not ARM like all our Androids. Very different, although technique is the same.
But thanks, for taking time to check up on all this.
Any updates ?
Hey Guys,
I'm looking into this, I've successfully extracted files from the OnePlus One's baseband, its running RtOS called REX, QC calls it AMSS.
Have a look at the thread here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/oneplus-one/general/discussion-hlos-reverse-engineering-t3292829
Waiting for the OsmocomBB update it projects
QCOM modem leaked sources.
Type in google/bing: "AU_LINUX_ANDROID_JB_MR1_RB1.04.02.02.050.116_msm8974_JB_MR1_RB1_CL3904528_release_AU"
Hi guys,
I'm new to the forum, but I plan on developing ROMs with a few people, so I will probably frequent them soon.
In my Operating Systems class, I was asked to come up with ideas for a project. Well, since I'm just starting to build Android ROMs anyways, I was going to see if I could use this idea for class. I guess my question is, do you guys think this would be a good project to last a few weeks of the semester (at least)? If not, can you suggest ways that will make it longer or shorter? We would be building them for a Droid Incredible.
I have a general idea, and it seams that just getting an AOSP ROM up and running would be no problem at all, from what I read anyways. It seems like the tailoring or the importing of ROMs is what really takes time and effort.
Thanks in advance for the input.
It depends on the class skills. But it's really great idea to study Linux and low level Android features. uh.. I didn't have such interesting project during my university years ((
The only big issue is high initial level of knowledge. Also many peoples may quickly give up fighting with some unclear compile or deploy issues. It's not trivial to debug on such devices. They may quickly lost their interest. But overall this is great idea. Where are you teaching?
I'm not actually the professor, I'm a student at Saginaw Valley State University (Michigan). I'm the "Class Leader" so I told the professor that I would give him the list of ideas I had for projects.
If it's for a grade, it might be a good idea then. They may lose interest, but if their grades are on the line, I would hope they struggle through it. Plus, we are all in groups, and they can pick another project if they don't like this one.
Thanks for the info, Purler.
Does anyone know how different it would be to make a ROM for something that requires a mouse input, like the Raspberry Pi?
Is there any chance that a Lollipop 5.1.1 rom will be developed for the RK3066? Will it even run on the older HUs?
TIA
ffwd4490 said:
Is there any chance that a Lollipop 5.1.1 rom will be developed for the RK3066? Will it even run on the older HUs?
TIA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After finding in other thread that LP for 3188 is in fact 'Frankenstein' 4.4 with LP API level 20 (something used for Android Ware) I guess that there may be possibility to use existing 4.4 kernel of 3066 and just add same API classes.
no..
mtcB will not get real lollipop
RK3066 will not get even the fake lollipop
you need to upgrade to RK3188
doctorman said:
no..
mtcB will not get real lollipop
RK3066 will not get even the fake lollipop
you need to upgrade to RK3188
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How do you know?
He asked 'is there a possibility'. Yes there is a possibility someon who is true developer to build it. The same way Chinese's did it for rk3188 - using old kernel and adding new API and apps. Only real difference is on kernel level as it is only thing tied to HW (CPU). And as LP is supposedly 'lightier' than KK, even 2 core rk3066 would be good enough and even work better. So technically there is no limits.
So, as I said, there is possibility. If there is true devs to step in instead of these who are just patching and repainting over Chinese's ROMs.
Here on XDA you may find lot of true custom ROMs which are true original development from the scratch instead just cosmetics over stock ROMs.
But I truly doubt that will happen. Here we have no true original ROM development. And thus I may agree with you that rk3066 LP is not possible. Even it technically is.
pa.ko said:
How do you know?
He asked 'is there a possibility'. Yes there is a possibility someon who is true developer to build it. The same way Chinese's did it for rk3188 - using old kernel and adding new API and apps. Only real difference is on kernel level as it is only thing tied to HW (CPU). And as LP is supposedly 'lightier' than KK, even 2 core rk3066 would be good enough and even work better. So technically there is no limits.
So, as I said, there is possibility. If there is true devs to step in instead of these who are just patching and repainting over Chinese's ROMs.
Here on XDA you may find lot of true custom ROMs which are true original development from the scratch instead just cosmetics over stock ROMs.
But I truly doubt that will happen. Here we have no true original ROM development. And thus I may agree with you that rk3066 LP is not possible. Even it technically is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I said it before and I was almost proven wrong by the fake lollipop mtcB ROM but it came out that I was fake.
I worked closely with Joying on this.. they tried and no matter what they did they could not get lollipop loaded on RK3188 mtcB.
considering there is no source code for these around I doubt anyone else spends time on this specially on Rk3066
doctorman said:
I said it before and I was almost proven wrong by the fake lollipop mtcB ROM but it came out that I was fake.
I worked closely with Joying on this.. they tried and no matter what they did they could not get lollipop loaded on RK3188 mtcB.
considering there is no source code for these around I doubt anyone else spends time on this specially on Rk3066
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And that is where the PK is wrong..
He keeps harping on about fake developers and no one has the skills..
Yet he himself is not a developer.. and is not taking into account that the source code is not released for either the MCU or the layer of Android being used..
It's fine to harp on that there are real developers on XDA ( which as we have not seen any of your work you are not one and there have no credit or the right to bag anyone pulling apart ****ty code)..
So until there is transparency from bottom up by the developers of these machine, then those that are doing their best to at least improve it should be given some credit..
There are numerous examples of **** box's released that have never had code released, as an example the atv1200 .. no kernel codes, and very limited Android core codes released.. thus development was never going to take off and they died a natural death as you can only do so much..
You only have to look over to the tf700 thread and see what Tim has achieved by having SOURCE CODE/DRIVERS..
Actually, comes to mind.. didn't we have a guy doing a crowd funding for some units he was going to make.. how that go?
Anyway PK..you keep banging away on your drum and there are plenty here waiting for you to step up to the plate and provide a true working Fresh ROM for peer review.. or are you just a lurker that had no real skills apart from dropping snide remarks around the threads?
Yes Im developer but not amateur and thus not doing anything here on XDA. Here I just like around and look how some areas are going, looking for new ideas and technical hints. So I don't bite your provocation to provide you something good for free.
From the beginning this all thing was managed wrong. Starting from Chinese crappy product and with that young and inexperienced guy Malaysk who did it all wrong. And you and few others like you helped him to waste time and get to this dead end.
Instead pushing him to learn true Android skills, to learn reverse engineering and spend year or so in truly mastering this units, you applauded him and encouraged him in cosmetics in wasting time on visual appearance and other wasteful and functionaly irrelevant things. And he wasted too much time to face with inevitable: there always will be someone whose taste is different. And we know how emotional he is about his totally amateurish boot logo...
So you helped him to fail. And now you are angry as we all see this is dead end. Yes, LP is Frankenstein full of bugs and empty of functionalities. And he is incapable solving that. As you wasted his enthusiasm on crap.
I tried to help him understand what he should do and what way to go. But he had no capacity to understand and few of you helped him to go wrong way by small donations and loud applauding.
I wonder if you are short-sighted or just like someone else here is working for Chinese's?
Only they have interest noone reverse engineer these units and allow people with existing HW get good new ROM! Which is technically possible. And yes I know that as I'm very profound in such things.
Great...
If you have ever run a team of coders then you know the time and effort it takes..
And yes, we are in agreement on that the 'Original' base is full of bugs..
So leave it alone and move on as until you put forward your own fix's then carry no cred but come off of just another keyboard warrior..
And yes, I have worked in Silicon valley and China with coders so I am comfortable calling you out on your attitude in these forums.. as you are carrying on with personal attacks on the only developer that has put forward any work on these forums in English and dared to open himself to guys like yourself.
Fine you have posted other Russians work and thats all good too..
Fundamental rule ... learn by mistakes .. and keep on learning..thus this is what these pieces of equipment are..
As stated in other threads.. good things are happening in this area so a few years from now your ranting is mote..