Hey, you probably heard that WP7 has been ported on HD2.
Well, that's a great start. But I think we can try it out... Even it would be a lot buggy or slow or anything else... I think if we contact DFT (Dark Forces Team) they might help us out... I know it's near impossible (because of our ARMv6 CPU. == WP7 needs an ARMv7 CPU which HD2 has it.) But it's not impossible completely... Let's do something about it... What do you say devs?
I'm just waiting for the hackers team is to discuss about this. Because I am only new person in the world PHONE.
im will suporter to u all
Come on ,it will be great to run wp7 on topaz
Oh golly, because you demanding it will sure make them motivated.
When you say "Lets do something" you must mean, "I cant do it, can you do it for me?". Why not learn reverse engineering, and then doing something yourself? Because realy, if you want dev's to do all the work for you, you obviously should stick to the Windows-GUI manipulation level, doubt being spoof-feed will help you.
Desert Storm said:
Oh golly, because you demanding it will sure make them motivated.
When you say "Lets do something" you must mean, "I cant do it, can you do it for me?". Why not learn reverse engineering, and then doing something yourself? Because realy, if you want dev's to do all the work for you, you obviously should stick to the Windows-GUI manipulation level, doubt being spoof-feed will help you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First of all, I don't see any reason to answer you directly. In second, I'm a developer but can't do it alone. I'm asking for help. So just keep learning things. You may someday understand what I was asking for.
Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing a port for the Topaz, and I'd probly try it out... But I'm looking forward to the cracking of WP7 on WP7 phones so that I can upgrade to a new phone and not be stuck with that horrible start screen
Black.Heart said:
First of all, I don't see any reason to answer you directly. In second, I'm a developer but can't do it alone. I'm asking for help. So just keep learning things. You may someday understand what I was asking for.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know you have some developing skills, although I dont know if it goes beyond changing the registry and gui-manipulation, but the system-level developers are unlikely to port the Windows 7 to the Topaz, mainly because its a old device now, outdated and slow.
(And I know that you've got some knowledge because I used eclipse for few days, good ROM)
Desert Storm said:
I know you have some developing skills, although I dont know if it goes beyond changing the registry and gui-manipulation, but the system-level developers are unlikely to port the Windows 7 to the Topaz, mainly because its a old device now, outdated and slow.
(And I know that you've got some knowledge because I used eclipse for few days, good ROM)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I appreciate that... But as I mentioned above, it's near impossible... Not completely. Your'e right... Topaz has ARMv6 processor... WP7 requires ARMv7. But i'm talking about experiencing it on Topaz... By the way, I agree with oldness of Topaz... I'm gonna buy a Desire HD
It's wishfull thinking and never going to happen. The best us topaz owners can expect to get for our outdated phones is a 100% working Android.
hoosbude said:
The best us topaz owners can expect to get for our outdated phones is a 100% working Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And wouldn't that be great!!!!
That ain't true I find that the ui from wp7 is lite and simple. This can easily be ported to our devices with a little magic. But The part of windows live games or xbox live is the part that our devices cant handle. Our devices aren't old they where made cheap by htc and att to cover some sectors of the market. But our devices could have been easily been made with the same stuff as hd2, as few months passed since each launched.
The ui is simpler than ours and faster I think it could be done......just that I need to finish studying by then to make this. And I don't think of waiting is another great idea. As we are shadowed by what could have been if we had a twin processor to hd2's. But, we bought this and I find it great!
And please respect each other!!!!!
I think it's NOT possible because of hardware requirements.
mahra said:
I think it's NOT possible because of hardware requirements.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
our device was made of tinking on this.. As I read before it was tought to be ported in form of an upgrade. But it was left in the clouds. And our device have the custom buttons on a new device like android and wp7. Ram can't be a prob. If the UI was made for speed and simplicity. Just the xbox live games won't run properly.
joefrank said:
our device was made of tinking on this.. As I read before it was tought to be ported in form of an upgrade. But it was left in the clouds. And our device have the custom buttons on a new device like android and wp7. Ram can't be a prob. If the UI was made for speed and simplicity. Just the xbox live games won't run properly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree... But no one is taking TD2 seriously. Because there are at least 2 similar devices (TP2, THD) no one is focusing on TD2. That's why we don't see any salient improvement on Android development. HD2 devs focused on it and made the progress finished soon. I think the best way we can do right now, is contacting Cotulla from DFT. He could help me and other devs. I just don't know how to contact him!
Black.Heart said:
I agree... But no one is taking TD2 seriously. Because there are at least 2 similar devices (TP2, THD) no one is focusing on TD2. That's why we don't see any salient improvement on Android development. HD2 devs focused on it and made the progress finished soon. I think the best way we can do right now, is contacting Cotulla from DFT. He could help me and other devs. I just don't know how to contact him!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AH man! I've been focussing on another site. WWW.htc-pure.com, which I am a moderator. And for years I've been here quietly. but I think I will try to move here to help. Lets see what I can do.
wp7 requires ARMv7 instruction set on cpu. but topaz is just ARMv6 i think. that's why I think it's not possible
Moreover, why would you want WP7? The only thing it has going for it is that it runs smoothly and doesn't crash, which it would NOT do if someone did manage to port it. Better off building skins over 6.5.x; that way you could at least retain functionality...
joefrank said:
AH man! I've been focussing on another site. WWW.htc-pure.com, which I am a moderator. And for years I've been here quietly. but I think I will try to move here to help. Lets see what I can do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am waiting, good luck man
Black.Heart said:
I agree... But no one is taking TD2 seriously. Because there are at least 2 similar devices (TP2, THD) no one is focusing on TD2. That's why we don't see any salient improvement on Android development. HD2 devs focused on it and made the progress finished soon. I think the best way we can do right now, is contacting Cotulla from DFT. He could help me and other devs. I just don't know how to contact him!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
actually, hd2 had devices that only need to be (partially) reverse-engeneered. hell some libs etc worked directly from Desire, cotulla took half of its radio SW to get rmnet data working and ...HD7...well it's hd2 without hardware buttons!...
magldr is child's play and development was over in 2 months but they kept it testing for that time to see how phone will respond to tottaly diffrent os.
now find something like that for Touch(something).
htc was lazy with hardware at the time and hackers took advantage of that.
but these devices nature is so much different that every piece of system would have to be homebrew-and devs struggle with android for a long time with sources and inch from their nose. imagine rewriting even basic parts of kernel to support armv6 without any proper source. i truly can't imagine wp7 being done...
even with few developers, reasonable timeframe would be over year or two!
i own 3 htc phones and one td2 just for fun of it, to see evolution of htc's over the years.. go buy yourself hd2 if you really wish to hack the hell out of your phone. they go really cheap - around $200 - and save yourself time
stirkac said:
actually, hd2 had devices that only need to be (partially) reverse-engeneered. hell some libs etc worked directly from Desire, cotulla took half of its radio SW to get rmnet data working and ...HD7...well it's hd2 without hardware buttons!...
magldr is child's play and development was over in 2 months but they kept it testing for that time to see how phone will respond to tottaly diffrent os.
now find something like that for Touch(something).
htc was lazy with hardware at the time and hackers took advantage of that.
but these devices nature is so much different that every piece of system would have to be homebrew-and devs struggle with android for a long time with sources and inch from their nose. imagine rewriting even basic parts of kernel to support armv6 without any proper source. i truly can't imagine wp7 being done...
even with few developers, reasonable timeframe would be over year or two!
i own 3 htc phones and one td2 just for fun of it, to see evolution of htc's over the years.. go buy yourself hd2 if you really wish to hack the hell out of your phone. they go really cheap - around $200 - and save yourself time
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. I'm moving to iPhone 4 or Sensation or EVO 3D...
Hey guys, So I made an attempt to port 3.2 sdk to nook and i had a minor success with it.
Basically i have used Divine-Madcat's modifications from 3.0 sdk with 3.2 sdk image from Google, and after a very few changes it worked!!
But there are a lot of problems right now, for ex-
It takes a lot of time to load up and screen remains blank unless i use power button,
Display just goes blank randomly but comes back on using power button,
Android seems to take touch input as a mouse input and displays a round pointer,
laggy as hell(sometimes, randomly it goes smooth), probably displays one frame per second, and usually hangs up after a minute of use.
Wifi-not working
sd-card- not working
This is in no way usable right now, but i am posting the zip file anyway, hoping that someone will come out of no-where and help me fix this(thinking of this as an opportunity to learn)
So try it if you are feeling adventurous and want to fix things up.
Format data before u proceed.
DO NOT FORMAT BOOT.
MEDIAFIRE LINK
Disclaimer: I am not responsible for what happens to your nook, if you decide to flash this zip(though it likely won't do any damage).
reserved for future
Good luck to you, kind sir.
Looks good, but not even close to daily driver. Screenies?
None of the SDKs, including my own, are daily drivers. Until we can compile code, they will never be daily drivers.
Well, your SDK 11 port is pretty functional, just a little graphics lag.
ikingblack said:
Well, your SDK 11 port is pretty functional, just a little graphics lag.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, it booted, but by no means was it a driver. It wasn't just graphics lag, it was overall lag. hardware acceleration was a no go... Look, it was fun to play with, but never a driver.
Unless deeper blue comes in with something (not saying he can), these will always be experiments; there is just too much code that needs to be compiled for our device for it to really work...
If you say so.
ikingblack said:
If you say so.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Given our respective success in porting things, i think i will value my opinion just a bit more, sorry.
Divine_Madcat said:
Yes, it booted, but by no means was it a driver. It wasn't just graphics lag, it was overall lag. hardware acceleration was a no go... Look, it was fun to play with, but never a driver.
Unless deeper blue comes in with something (not saying he can), these will always be experiments; there is just too much code that needs to be compiled for our device for it to really work...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well you are right, this pretty much is an experiment and its a good way for me to learn things, but u never know maybe someone will get their hands on that latest driver, or maybe someone will figure a workaround, those guys at notion ink Adam have a very good honeycomb port which people use as a daily driver.
Progress is progress. At the same time, I'm starting to feel like we're hitting a brick wall without any type of hardware acceleration. The SDK ports themselves usually run next to fine functionality wise, but the lack of hardware acceleration means that virtually all of honeycomb is unstable without massive tweaking.
rigy73 said:
Well you are right, this pretty much is an experiment and its a good way for me to learn things, but u never know maybe someone will get their hands on that latest driver, or maybe someone will figure a workaround, those guys at notion ink Adam have a very good honeycomb port which people use as a daily driver.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That isn't too surprising, since the hardware is the same as every other tablet (Tegra2), and most of the acceleration should work without needing a recompile. On the other hand, we have to use the SDK code, which is compiled very generically, and we don't have that luxury.
Divine_Madcat said:
Given our respective success in porting things, i think i will value my opinion just a bit more, sorry.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course.
I still really appreciate the random efforts at a Honeycomb ports - it's unfortunate there isn't a larger Honeycomb dev community looking at this device, but at the same time completely understandable when you read the struggles of DB, DMC, etc., and the relatively dim outlook without a proper 3.0/.1/.2 source release.
For a long time I just thought it'd be a matter of time and folks would be right back at it - but now that it's taking a long while, there's real concern that if/when a proper source is released, will people still be interested in developing for the NC?
So yeah - I appreciate seeing any efforts pop up. It reminds me people are trying, and that's awesome.
CM based roms work just fine - but there's something decidedly underwhelming about the 2.x experience on a tablet.
arrjaytea -
I could guarantee, with the AOSP code, the nook would be an even neater device. Frankly, assuming we dont lose a dev base, i see great things for our device when ICS hits. As it is, from everything i have heard form our CM7 brethren, CM7's efforts are not for waste; many lessons and fixes learned here will help future efforts..
Assuming el goog keeps their word, the nook is still living the high life.
I really hope the current devs stick around long enough to dev a great ICS rom. I cannot wait for that at all. Finally, a proper HC-"based" rom for it.
In my opinion we let Google get to big by adopting their "free" services. They are as evil as Microsoft was/is in my eyes now. Not releasing code that they basically said would be open and public until it is "end of life" goes against the foundation of what android was supposed to be about. They are like Walmart in that they undercut the little guy to drive them under and then piss on us. Had it not been for android, alot of us would probably be running Openmoko on our phones and maybe tablets. Flames away
foltz61 said:
In my opinion we let Google get to big by adopting their "free" services. They are as evil as Microsoft was/is in my eyes now. Not releasing code that they basically said would be open and public until it is "end of life" goes against the foundation of what android was supposed to be about. They are like Walmart in that they undercut the little guy to drive them under and then piss on us. Had it not been for android, alot of us would probably be running Openmoko on our phones and maybe tablets. Flames away
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If they release the code, there's a chance that the Android brand will be further fragmented and destroyed by improper use of it. Blame the Chineese tablet makers for stuffing 1.6 on tablets, that's what this is a result of.
arrjaytea said:
I still really appreciate the random efforts at a Honeycomb ports - it's unfortunate there isn't a larger Honeycomb dev community looking at this device, but at the same time completely understandable when you read the struggles of DB, DMC, etc., and the relatively dim outlook without a proper 3.0/.1/.2 source release.
For a long time I just thought it'd be a matter of time and folks would be right back at it - but now that it's taking a long while, there's real concern that if/when a proper source is released, will people still be interested in developing for the NC?
So yeah - I appreciate seeing any efforts pop up. It reminds me people are trying, and that's awesome.
CM based roms work just fine - but there's something decidedly underwhelming about the 2.x experience on a tablet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After working a lot more with honeycomb port, i think i am happy that a lot more developers are actually working on cm7 than on honeycomb ports, these ports are a good way to try honeycomb on nook and have a little fun but, i don't think that even if we solve the video drivers issue honeycomb sdk could be used as a daily driver. The problems are just too much and the amount of tweaking it would require to get a good usable rom would not be worth it. Even functionality wise, sdk's have lots of problem. As for when source it released i think we will get at least one more CM port simply because the no of nook owners is just a lot right now.
nicatronTg said:
If they release the code, there's a chance that the Android brand will be further fragmented and destroyed by improper use of it. Blame the Chineese tablet makers for stuffing 1.6 on tablets, that's what this is a result of.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the inherent risk involved in adopting the open source model. You have a chance of fragmentation because you have so many manufacturers developing device or brand specific code and you have many developers developing codes specific to their roms, but what some see as fragmentation others see as variety, accessibility, and community driven problem solving. Android is probably on twice as many devices as Apples iOS. In my opinion a little fragmentation is worth the price.
I am disappointed that Google didn't release the source code. Anybody who has the ability to do some crazy like run honeycomb on their G1 phone or any other phone for that matter should be prepared for an experimental experience.
As for manufactures the Chinese putting Donut on their tablets--perhaps would have been easier for them to put Honeycomb on it if Google would have released the source codes. A lot of us are running phone OSes on our tablet albeit most of us are running Gingerbread on our Nook colors, but it would be nice to get a tablet OS like Honeycomb. Ice Cream Sandwich is suppose to be a Q4 release, but we'll see if that still happens. At least their is some hope. Just my humble 2 cents.
Hello, I currently own an SGH-i717 and would like to start rom developing for it and would like to know where to start. If I was a complete noob and compared to most of the people here I might be, how would I download 4.0.3 source code, use adb with my phone and etc etc. I find it all very interesting but I have no idea where to start.
I am asking for help with this specific device, then maybe onto porting for other devices but this model has a very sore lack of developers for it and since I own an ATT Note I would like to start the development for it regarding ICS and etc. Also why is there a lack of developers for this model's roms?
Thanks for any and all help regarding this issue and I am excited to get started developing for you guys!
I think you need something called android sdk
Sent from the only smartphone designed by Chuck Norris
So what do I win if I vote in the poll?
KangKilla said:
Hello, I currently own an SGH-i717 and would like to start rom developing for it and would like to know where to start. If I was a complete noob and compared to most of the people here I might be, how would I download 4.0.3 source code, use adb with my phone and etc etc. I find it all very interesting but I have no idea where to start.
I am asking for help with this specific device, then maybe onto porting for other devices but this model has a very sore lack of developers for it and since I own an ATT Note I would like to start the development for it regarding ICS and etc. Also why is there a lack of developers for this model's roms?
Thanks for any and all help regarding this issue and I am excited to get started developing for you guys!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
google search, ever heard of it before? and there is no lack of devs here unless you consider quantity over quality to be better
LOL
Underground_XI said:
google search, ever heard of it before? and there is no lack of devs here unless you consider quantity over quality to be better
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If that was the case, then why aren't there ice cream sandwich roms for att note?
and also, what do I search for? I'm very busy so I don't have time to mess with google all day. I need someone who is willing to work with me on educating a new developer, that maybe in turn had someone to learn from before them that appreciates a new (quality)developer.
To keep things simple here... Please refrain from jerky comments as I am trying to maintain progression in this area and again I am a very busy person so I would appreciate it if we kept this thread professional.
Thanks again for any help you care to give! I apologize for being a beginner, but everyone has to start somewhere... right?
kevinjgray88 said:
I think you need something called android sdk
Sent from the only smartphone designed by Chuck Norris
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I already have the Android SDK, but I'm not sure how to use it for developing. I tried once and ended up frustrated with it. Are there easy to understand tutorials somewhere around here that might help a beginner?
I've managed to unbrick my captivate using ADB once but it was very foreign to me and I was kinda impressed I even pulled off sending it into download mode. Thanks for helping!
jpeg42 said:
So what do I win if I vote in the poll?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tell em what he's won Johnny!!! - A BRAND NEEW ICE CREAM SANDWICH!!!!! - ::And teh crowd goes wild!::
It's good to see someone with a lot of drive to develop, but the biggest hurdle isn't building AOSP from source. You need to get a working kernel that is compatible with ICS and all the Notes hardware. You can't google search how to do that. In reality it's almost impossible to do if you don't have extensive experience with that sort of thing.
We need the source code from Samsung for the Note and as far as I know, there is no source code out yet for the Note (for any version of Android). The roms you are seeing right now (two that Im aware of) are basically rigged versions of the stock rom where things have been removed (bloatware) and a few things have been added that conveniently worked out of the box without messing with code.
The real work will come when we have some source code to work with.
Ok, what's next?
macked said:
It's good to see someone with a lot of drive to develop, but the biggest hurdle isn't building AOSP from source. You need to get a working kernel that is compatible with ICS and all the Notes hardware. You can't google search how to do that. In reality it's almost impossible to do if you don't have extensive experience with that sort of thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay well that's a start... does anyone know where I can find a stock version of ICS to study it's code and experiment? I found source codes for SGH-i717 here
opensource(dot)samsung(dot)com
(I need more posts to make that a link, lol)
I searched for i717 and it came up with four source results on samsung's opensource search bar but I don't know what the four results are for and what the difference between them all are(unless it means it is for att or tmobile or etc, etc.), if you can tell me any info on these then I would be greatly appreciative.
Yeah, I have no clue how to do most things with coding for android but I do understand how to flash correctly, root and all that jazz. I just lack the programming skills and work flow it takes to make all this. I am downloading java for dummies and learning how to use XML files, but I am wondering if there is something else I should study too?
It sucks that I came here starting from scratch basically but I have learned a lot from here in a short amount of time, I appreciate all of the developers who have made the roms I love along the way, I am just growing impatient with the far and few between updates for your devices and I want to see updates for our devices come faster and the only way to do that is to do something about it. So I am very grateful for any help I get regarding this.
Where can I start with the kernel search? Is that what everyone is waiting on to start developing ICS for this phone? Does anyone know if one exists?
Another Question
What's the difference between a kernel and a rom? Basically.. what the heck is it in lamen's terms?
KangKilla said:
What's the difference between a kernel and a rom? Basically.. what the heck is it in lamen's terms?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is a great place to start.
http://developer.android.com/guide/basics/what-is-android.html
Thread closed
This is not the place to learn how to develop, go to Android Development and Hacking forums and start studying.
Theres something that was pointed out to me by a new friend, that I had to vent about.. so HERE IT IS!!1
Why are some people too good to hang out in their threads and answer questions about the builds they post???
It seems to me that it builds credibility, to help the people using your build, so why not hang out and answer questions, address issues, help finding solutions, offer advice... BE HUMAN
Sure its great that new builds are being pushed out constantly... BUT IF YOURE NOT TALKING TO THE PEOPLE RUNNING THE CURRENT ONE AND EXPERIENCING PROBLEMS WHAT GOOD IS IT????
Step down from the clouds, and walk barefoot on the grass with the rest of us.. its cool and refreshing on your feet
WOW Man..
pitbull8265 said:
Theres something that was pointed out to me by a new friend, that I had to vent about.. so HERE IT IS!!1
Why are some people too good to hang out in their threads and answer questions about the builds they post???
It seems to me that it builds credibility, to help the people using your build, so why not hang out and answer questions, address issues, help finding solutions, offer advice... BE HUMAN
Sure its great that new builds are being pushed out constantly... BUT IF YOURE NOT TALKING TO THE PEOPLE RUNNING THE CURRENT ONE AND EXPERIENCING PROBLEMS WHAT GOOD IS IT????
Step down from the clouds, and walk barefoot on the grass with the rest of us.. its cool and refreshing on your feet
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Could not have said it better.... You hit the nail right on the head.. People respect those who back their work with support:good::good::good:
This DOES seem to be in SHORT reserve.. WELL STATED
Impressive
I have noticed this too.. Its like these people are too GOOD for Q&A and sometimes even respond to questions like they are PETTY and an inconvenience.. There ARE some who DO help, and those people deserve to know they are appreciated.. You in particular, have helped me a ton, so thanks.. Maybe you'll start a movement, and more people will start doing their part to help their followers...
+1
There is a SERIOUS shortage of helpers and an overage of shovelers
All these builds keep coming, and still the same problems on the one they put out before with a different NAME for the ROM.. Its like they change the name and recycled it..
I read through threads now, and if the OP doesn't hang out and help their users, I wont use their builds anymore.
Couldn't agree more!! Nicely said too
Be proud of your work.. Stick around and make sure people can..ya know, enjoy it too..
It's quality not quantity that matters. Stepping on other teams and developers to rush something out just to say "FIRST" will get you no where.. So while timely updates are important, if that's the only thing you post in your own thread.. "New build is up" when there's been 10 pages of people asking questions... I'll never support you, both publicly or financially.
I understand new enthusiast can be quite frustrating or maybe you just aren't a people type of person.. team up with someone that is... pass the q&a on to them, but do fricking something, people want support for YOUR roms and if you put out 20..that means all 20.
Exactly, how dare these developers not spend any time in the forums answering the same useless non-informative questions over and over. How dare they spend countless hours building a ROMs for free and then share it for others to use. How dare they spend time with their families and go to their actual job and have a life. How dare they….. (/sarcasm)
mapatton82 said:
Exactly, how dare these developers not spend any time in the forums answering the same useless non-informative questions over and over. How dare they spend countless hours building a ROMs for free and then share it for others to use. How dare they spend time with their families and go to their actual job and have a life. How dare they….. (/sarcasm)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea, I'm somewhere between this and the op. They shouldn't be 100% absent, but on the same note, some consideration for the above quote is in order too.
While were venting, its possible the devs haven't figured out how to fix some of these issues, but it doesn't do a dam bit of good for 50 people to complain about the same thing and no one is posting logcats. So don't complain about things not getting fixed, if your not attaching logs to every post about issues.
Just my 2c, add 97c more and go buy a cheeseburger.
Sent from my G3, Unlocked by Team Codefire
mapatton82 said:
Exactly, how dare these developers not spend any time in the forums answering the same useless non-informative questions over and over. How dare they spend countless hours building a ROMs for free and then share it for others to use. How dare they spend time with their families and go to their actual job and have a life. How dare they….. (/sarcasm)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then why put out 20 instead of 1 that they can handle is the point!!
Variety is the spice of life. I'd rather have 20 that will get fixed eventually than just 1 that works perfectly. If they are all too similar for you then just move on to another one, build your own, or just wait for fully featured lollipop which will be here soon enough. If a thread is maintained or not - I'm just happy to have a thread. A couple devs have walked away already and it'd suck if more left. Just be grateful for what we've got and be patient.
Kris Nelson said:
Then why put out 20 instead of 1 that they can handle is the point!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The same person is not releasing 20 different versions. Also, most are all based off of the AOSP core source, but each dev might add their own touch/flare to it. But, since each one is based off of AOSP, then more than likely, they will all have the same issues, unless the dev has made some changes.
I'd rather have a lot of choices than none. Believe me, when there is NO dev support (that is, a lot of ROMs being release), then you get even MORE whining of "Why isn't there any ROMs/dev support for this?"
Maybe you're not a dev, but I am (not for ROMs but that is my full-time job). Development takes a lot of time. I do it at work and to do it at home as well, especially for something that is free, takes a lot of time and dedication. Especially, ROM development is NOT an easy task. Rebuilding ROMs takes at least 90 minutes or more, depending on the speed of your machine, the size of the source code, etc. Heck, I've pulled down the git for CM12 and it's 12gb in size (source code only, not compiled) and it took hours to download over my high-speed internet connection at home.
I can understand wanting support if you PAID for it, but this is free, people. Free. They don't ask for anything in return monetarily, and yet, we see people demanding support as if they paid for it. You get what you pay for, and in this case, it's free. But I feel the support most devs give is very good, considering it's free. Also, for things like CM, it's usually not just one dev, but several who have responsibilities for different parts of the Android code base. So, just because one guy posts about it, doesn't mean he's the only dev on it. He might be sending your findings back to the other devs.
Also, you DON'T have to flash these custom ROMs. They all have disclaimers that the dev is not responsible for any damages that may occur to your phone. They don't guarantee support, but it's there for you to use. However, who is to say they aren't monitoring the forums? Just because they don't respond, doesn't mean they aren't looking into the issues you report.
Yes, I understand how you want a response from them, but in the end, it is your choice whether you want to flash or not. They didn't twist your arm to do it.
Keep posting your defects. Most devs, the good ones, do monitor the forums and take note of the issues. However, they know about other major issues that they are probably trying to work on. Again, for most, it is done in their spare time.
I myself would like to build and release ROMs, but right now, I don't have the time. it's not just "make a change, compile, release". There is a lot of researching, debugging, etc that must go on. Those that are programmers understand this. And, once you fix a bug, you don't just go and release it (under normal circumstances). You have to go through a complete testing cycle, retesting previous tests along with any new tests to ensure you didn't break something else. It's not that simple.
However, with these free releases, WE are the testers. WE are the ones that report back the issues so they can be addressed. Post them here, or even some devs have Twitter pages where you can post defects. Not all, but some.
In the end, be thankful you have so many choices. Yes, it may seem as if they are all the same, and in some cases they are and some are from people who just want to say "look I released a ROM" and then you never hear from them again. But, in the case of XDA, to post about a ROM in the dev forum, I believe you have to be an identified developer, so they do have to go through some vetting process. So, more than likely, they are legit developers, not a fly-by-night person.
Just wanted to get that off my chest. I understand what people feel, but you have to understand, this is not an easy thing to do. Maybe a lot of you understand that, but I find that a lot don't. Or, they say they understand, when they really don't. They just "think" they understand.
Wow. Off the soapbox. It just burns me as a developer when I see things like this. Yes, I understand where you are coming from, but sometimes, I think you need to hear it from the other side as well.
Ciao!
If you're a good parent, when you bring a child into this world, you raise it, and nurture it... creating it is not enough...
noun
1.
the act or process of developing; growth; progress:
iBolski said:
The same person is not releasing 20 different versions. Also, most are all based off of the AOSP core source, but each dev might add their own touch/flare to it. But, since each one is based off of AOSP, then more than likely, they will all have the same issues, unless the dev has made some changes.
I'd rather have a lot of choices than none. Believe me, when there is NO dev support (that is, a lot of ROMs being release), then you get even MORE whining of "Why isn't there any ROMs/dev support for this?"
Maybe you're not a dev, but I am (not for ROMs but that is my full-time job). Development takes a lot of time. I do it at work and to do it at home as well, especially for something that is free, takes a lot of time and dedication. Especially, ROM development is NOT an easy task. Rebuilding ROMs takes at least 90 minutes or more, depending on the speed of your machine, the size of the source code, etc. Heck, I've pulled down the git for CM12 and it's 12gb in size (source code only, not compiled) and it took hours to download over my high-speed internet connection at home.
I can understand wanting support if you PAID for it, but this is free, people. Free. They don't ask for anything in return monetarily, and yet, we see people demanding support as if they paid for it. You get what you pay for, and in this case, it's free. But I feel the support most devs give is very good, considering it's free. Also, for things like CM, it's usually not just one dev, but several who have responsibilities for different parts of the Android code base. So, just because one guy posts about it, doesn't mean he's the only dev on it. He might be sending your findings back to the other devs.
Also, you DON'T have to flash these custom ROMs. They all have disclaimers that the dev is not responsible for any damages that may occur to your phone. They don't guarantee support, but it's there for you to use. However, who is to say they aren't monitoring the forums? Just because they don't respond, doesn't mean they aren't looking into the issues you report.
Yes, I understand how you want a response from them, but in the end, it is your choice whether you want to flash or not. They didn't twist your arm to do it.
Keep posting your defects. Most devs, the good ones, do monitor the forums and take note of the issues. However, they know about other major issues that they are probably trying to work on. Again, for most, it is done in their spare time.
I myself would like to build and release ROMs, but right now, I don't have the time. it's not just "make a change, compile, release". There is a lot of researching, debugging, etc that must go on. Those that are programmers understand this. And, once you fix a bug, you don't just go and release it (under normal circumstances). You have to go through a complete testing cycle, retesting previous tests along with any new tests to ensure you didn't break something else. It's not that simple.
However, with these free releases, WE are the testers. WE are the ones that report back the issues so they can be addressed. Post them here, or even some devs have Twitter pages where you can post defects. Not all, but some.
In the end, be thankful you have so many choices. Yes, it may seem as if they are all the same, and in some cases they are and some are from people who just want to say "look I released a ROM" and then you never hear from them again. But, in the case of XDA, to post about a ROM in the dev forum, I believe you have to be an identified developer, so they do have to go through some vetting process. So, more than likely, they are legit developers, not a fly-by-night person.
Just wanted to get that off my chest. I understand what people feel, but you have to understand, this is not an easy thing to do. Maybe a lot of you understand that, but I find that a lot don't. Or, they say they understand, when they really don't. They just "think" they understand.
Wow. Off the soapbox. It just burns me as a developer when I see things like this. Yes, I understand where you are coming from, but sometimes, I think you need to hear it from the other side as well.
Ciao!
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Thank you.. Just to correct you though.. There ARE the same persons that are putting out 20 different versions (1 developer. releasing 20 different roms.) That was just the point i was making..
I do personally research before i ever flash a rom or anything..and trust me i donate!! LOL
Kris Nelson said:
Thank you.. Just to correct you though.. There ARE the same persons that are putting out 20 different versions (1 developer. releasing 20 different roms.) That was just the point i was making..
I do personally research before i ever flash a rom or anything..and trust me i donate!! LOL
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I see who you are talking about. If you read the OP, at the bottom, he gives thanks to the devs on these ROMs. I don't think he's a developer at all. At least, his profile doesn't say so. I think he just finds all these ROMs and posts links to them. I could be wrong, and I apologize if I am if that person is reading this thread, but I don't see where the OP of the 5+ ROM threads is the actual developer for them. It's almost like he does the "announcing" for the devs of those ROMs.
And since it does appear that you do not have to be a developer to post in the standard DEV forum, then that makes even more sense.
I do know that in another forum I frequented a lot, you were given developer status and only developers could create new threads in the DEV/ROM forum. That was to prevent a lot of "spam" postings of ROMs.
Makes me wonder if that's what is happening here.
iBolski said:
I see who you are talking about. If you read the OP, at the bottom, he gives thanks to the devs on these ROMs. I don't think he's a developer at all. At least, his profile doesn't say so. I think he just finds all these ROMs and posts links to them. I could be wrong, and I apologize if I am if that person is reading this thread, but I don't see where the OP of the 5+ ROM threads is the actual developer for them. It's almost like he does the "announcing" for the devs of those ROMs.
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I wish you were correct but nope, he is the builder and maintainer. Trust me many more than 5+ when you include other carriers as well.. But not just the one, others have started as well... It's very frustrating that after 1 week, several messages of a very specific problem (not mine just someone i was helping) on different sites where they are posted.. I have to track down someone that i know can help but has NOTHING to do with any of these roms...and gets zippy cash.. Though he should..lol
Anyway, i truly value great developers and have learned who to support and who not to. I like to help people so the developers can build awesome stuff and its my way of keeping the simple crap of your plate so you can do just that..but when i can't even find the answer, the developer should be available.
Just saw your edit.. Yes i think that is happening too. I was always under the assumption that builders/maintainers did so for the actual devise and carriers they use.. I guess that's no longer the case.
Oadam11 is a builder of various roms for our G3's from source repositories available for anyone to build from, and anyone to commit to. He may or may not be doing any commits/merge requests - and even if he did those contributions might not be accepted into the various G3 forks.
In any case, he might not be in a position to contribute to feature requests or bug fixes. He might not be running his own builds of all these roms, past checking to see if they will boot and more or less work.
Say Team Vanir does a fork of their work for the G3, an official one. Ok, then you would ask for support from members of Team Vanir, sure, though you might not get much, depending on a lot of factors (including your attitude...) Then consider the possibility that someone just builds something like Commotio from publicly available sources, with just enough tweaks from somewhere to get it to compile and run, unofficially, on one or more G3 variants. I suspect that is where oadam11 is coming from. He doesn't create the roms, he builds them for G3's. He watches the repositories for each rom he has built for us, and when he sees that rom's devs have checked in and merged useful updates, then he rebuilds for us when he has time. Builds take a while. Then he makes them available for us users to download and install them, after some degree of testing.
The point is that he is in no way responsible for supporting the builds he produces of these team's work. It would be impossible for him to anyway. I am sure he gets permission and some degree of cooperation from any team project he builds from, but he is NOT a team member, or major contributor, for all of them. He is a noble builder and distributor, and you should expect nothing more from him than What he is already providing.
If you want to get a problem or new feature dealt with on any given rom, you must deal with the team's source contributers by raising issues on their gerrit or maybe working on an outstanding and team-prioritized bug as a contributor.
Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk
Thank you..you actually confirmed the point I was making. However, is the average person going to know all this? Of course not...should they do their research prior, of course but they don't... I see good teams being hurt by this as well.. Vanir just had an issue the other day.. Something is being lost in translation and by no means was i only referring to Adam.
I understand. It is interesting that in G+ just a little why ago someone asked David Kessler of Team Vanir who was their maintainer of the G3 Vanir and he replied that they don't have one.
There was also discussion about someone providing support, like answering questions. The idea of supporting a clueless user who had tried to flash TouchWiz onto a Vanir device, by beating the user over the head with an iPhone6+ was suggested. The devs have no patience with such users, generally.
That said, Holy Angel seems exceptional.
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The problem I have, is that when a person POSTS a Rom, and are the OP, they need to support what they post, and help the people posting questions in the thread, or BOW OUT!!! There are people posting and dumping... DONT Post a ROM if you're not willing or able to help the team you are Posting links to... Dont post it and then say "Any problems, contact THEM"
THAT PERSON mentioned, has a lot of them, all as OP, none supported other than.."New build up"
Raising the age limit for COPPA
The amount of entitlement exhibited in this thread is phenomenal. Yes, by all means don't use a build if the developer (who has actually done some REAL WORK) won't support you to your liking.
That will really teach those mean developers a lesson.
Don't forget to complain about the slow speeds of free downloads as well.
It's also a good idea to stop using a build if the developer won't add features you want, and soon, too.
DeanGibson said:
The amount of entitlement exhibited in this thread is phenomenal. Yes, by all means don't use a build if the developer (who has actually done some REAL WORK) won't support you to his/her liking.
That will really teach those mean developers a lesson.
Don't forget to complain about the slow speeds of free downloads as well.
It's also a good idea to stop using a build if the developer won't add features you want, and soon, too.
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Just because you want a feature, doesn't mean it's a good feature to add. If you did that, you would end up with something that could eventually become impossible to maintain.
There are SO many bugs right now in the AOSP code that these devs are trying to fix to make it work on this phone. I would rather those get fixed first.
And, do you think you are the only one to ask for features?
I'm a developer, not for android, but I write code for a living. And what you are asking for is what we call "scope creep". We have to weed out the "must haves" with the "wants". Must haves are the things that they user must have in order to perform their job. This is usually adding functionality that isn't there currently that is needed to complete their job. The "wants" are "I would like to have the ability to clear out all background apps with a single button or swipe". That is NOT needed on this phone, but it's a nice "to have" option, but it doesn't affect the overall performance of the OS itself. Yes, you might say it does because you can clear out the background apps, but in reality, those apps are NOT running. I don't want to get into the specifics of android app management, but those apps you see in the "recent apps" history are NOT running. They are suspended and not taking up ANY CPU cycles, what-so-ever. If they happen to be, then it's a poorly written app, and it means the dev knowingly circumvented the Android OS app management process which is a big no-no. In that case, you should go back to the dev of the app and demand they fix that.
But, you are free not to install the ROM. That's fine and that's your choice, but it just irks me when I see people make complaints like this who probably have no idea what the software development life cycle is all about. To me, fixing bugs right now is the main issue, not adding pretty enhancements to the OS.
And who's to say they aren't working on what you ask, especially if you ask for fixes to major issues (such as battery life, radio, etc)?
Remember, these are UNOFFICIAL releases. They are based off of AOSP source which is pretty much device-agnostic except when it comes to Nexus devices since those are Google devices and therefore, the AOSP source is built for those type of devices.
Android is completely different from iOS. iOS is built for a set of hardware that doesn't have much variance like Android does. Hence, that is why Apple controls both the software AND the hardware of iPhones. It means less fragmentation across devices, but it also means, they decide what is best and you have no way of getting the source.
Google releases the source for Android so you CAN have these custom ROMs built. But, because one Android device has a different hardware configuration from another (CPU and GPU's being the biggest ones), then anything that can take advantage of the hardware architecture for a particular phone means having to change the AOSP source to use any of those "advantages" from that hardware. Which then means, that source no longer works on other phones, only for the phone they modified it for.
So, give the devs some slack, please. They are working hard on it and it's not one dev. If it were, then give the guy even MORE slack. The source for Android is over 12gb along. That is where it's not even compiled. And, compiling the android source generally takes about 90 minutes. So, each "fix" they do requires recompiling (90 minutes) and then testing.
Then, more than likely, the "fix" either didn't work or it possibly broke something else. That means, going back, determining the issue, fixing it, recompiling (wait another 90 minutes) and test again.
That all takes time, people. We developers are NOT magicians, even though it might seem like it.
So, try to imagine trying to fix all the big bugs that you know about, then have to come here, read through ALL the posts and then log those requests down, prioritize them based on all the other work you have, make those changes, recompile, test, etc. It's not a easy and it gets frustrating. But believe me, when we do fix an issue or are able to give the users what they want, we get an extreme amount of satisfaction knowing that we were able to satisfy the "customer".
So please, be careful what you state about devs. Those that do read here usually have thick skins, but complain enough, and they might just quit and then you have nothing.
I understand where people are coming from, but you've been blaming the devs when it's not their fault. Again, the android source is huge and it takes more than one person to work on it. Especially if they are responsible for more than one device. Some devs are working on source for more than just this phone. So, add that to what I already stated and hopefully, you can begin to understand what the devs are going through.