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I'm beginning to lose hope that the bootloader is going to be unlocked. Not because the devs here aren't fantastic - they are undoubtedly incredible. But based on my prior experiences with locked phones, this one seems to be unusually challenging. So what do folks think the odds are at this point?
PS: Forgive me if this belongs in another thread but I figured it's less about the process or the bounty and more about likelihood....
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2
I'm not holding my breath. But it's reasonable that something may be found along the way by accident or by leak..
sent from my vzw aosp-4.3 gs4
the odds are exactly 50/50
scientific fact.
lol for real though, I may be going to the HTC One, if the boot loader isn't unlocked in a couple months.
I would prefer a One Max IF you can unlock the bootloader on HTC's site.
I'm already trying to trade my S4 for a Note 2. Little patience I have. Which leads me to my next question... Does anybody know if the Note 2 is a nightmare or have the Dev's got that one figured out?
brandonhatty said:
I'm already trying to trade my S4 for a Note 2. Little patience I have. Which leads me to my next question... Does anybody know if the Note 2 is a nightmare or have the Dev's got that one figured out?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I owned one before the s4. No problems unlocking bootloader etc on the note 2. Everything was pretty stable as well as far as aosp roms.
flyinj54 said:
I owned one before the s4. No problems unlocking bootloader etc on the note 2. Everything was pretty stable as well as far as aosp roms.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How long you going to give it? I'm sure as soon as I trade back they will crack it!
Sent from my SCH-I545 using xda premium
brandonhatty said:
I'm already trying to trade my S4 for a Note 2. Little patience I have. Which leads me to my next question... Does anybody know if the Note 2 is a nightmare or have the Dev's got that one figured out?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I came from the note 2, development for the note 2 is not as active as the s4 but there is development.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using xda app-developers app
I currently plan on getting the note 3. Not stopping using the gs4, just having the ability to go big when I feel like it. :good:
That and to try to start some projects for it. Always fun to have projects!
sent from my GE gs4
andybones said:
the odds are exactly 50/50
scientific fact.
lol for real though, I may be going to the HTC One, if the boot loader isn't unlocked in a couple months.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wasn't the HTC DNA blocked from being unlocked after a vzw update? If the one is unlockable then I'd gladly switch.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2
The odds are the same as finding a way to install a rom on the me7 update
Sent from my SCH-I545 using xda app-developers app
pretty soon Verizon will lock down all phones and unlocking and rooting phones will be gone foreverrrrrrrr
CC268 said:
pretty soon Verizon will lock down all phones and unlocking and rooting phones will be gone foreverrrrrrrr
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I doubt rooting will ever be gone, but custom recoveries are probably going to be a thing of the past
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2
mrbracht said:
I doubt rooting will ever be gone, but custom recoveries are probably going to be a thing of the past
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, didn't the guy from Cyanogen Mod make a G+ post a week or two ago, talking about trying to move Cyanogen mod to not requiring root access? https://plus.google.com/100275307499530023476/posts/BDVgeKMWaf4
CC268 said:
pretty soon Verizon will lock down all phones and unlocking and rooting phones will be gone foreverrrrrrrr
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
samsung develeoper phones, htc unlock.
theres future rooting..
porky101 said:
Well, didn't the guy from Cyanogen Mod make a G+ post a week or two ago, talking about trying to move Cyanogen mod to not requiring root access? https://plus.google.com/100275307499530023476/posts/BDVgeKMWaf4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He did, and from what I got out of it he sees the evolution going that way. It would be nice to have CM without a custom bootloader.
RaptorMD said:
He did, and from what I got out of it he sees the evolution going that way. It would be nice to have CM without a custom bootloader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe I'm just a noob but how would that work?
I think it is going to be the only solution going forward. I don't see any of the manufacturers or providers easing back on locking down these devices. If anything they will get tighter.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using xda app-developers app
Dolphlungegrin said:
Maybe I'm just a noob but how would that work?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am not totally sure, but I felt the CM team was indicating something in the way Google was implementing security and the code that really allows things to be done without the intrusion of root. I am not a developer and likely never would acquire the skills to be more than a guinea pig for them (don't mind) and I learned a lot from folks here especially with my HTC One DE which was a rockin device. I just wished AT&T service was better in my area and I could live with it. Some day I will likely try them again but I just can't do it right now. The big reason I did was to get unlocked phones, but given the sheer lack of LTE for US on the international phones its clear the OEM's are NOT making global phones on LTE today. It could be 10 years before we truly see global LTE phones.
Personalty, It's not about CM to me, I wasn't full access to my phone, if I have HTC I was S-OFF, if this phone I was the boot loader unlock.
Things take time and money, check the bounty, who knows for all I know they have a boot loader unlock and are waiting for it to hit $10G or some other number.
It's hard to say really. But I hope that Verizon still allows their HTC phone to at least get HTC -Dev unlock to allow custom recovery and ROM-Ming, and as for Samsung, if a Dev. edition is the only option, I will buy the phone for at Verizon (whatever one I can sell for the most on Swappa), sell it, make about enough money to buy the Dev. edition at only $200 after selling the device.
Just some ranting, sorry.
I was doing some reading and came across this interesting article. I hope our devs can UN dm-verify our stock kernel.
It may make rooting future devices much more difficult. I wonder what bug crawled up Google's butt.
http://www.xda-developers.com/android/google-taking-aim-at-device-modders-in-android-4-4-kitkat/
Sent from my LG-D800 using XDA Premium HD app
There always seems to be work around on every new version but this looks like bad news. Read the whole thing. Scary stuff for locked bootloaders.
Sent from my VS980 4G using xda app-developers app
So do we get the pitchforks out and commence advance on LGs social media, etc? To get them to churn out an official build, of course.
It's a great phone and I bought it knowing they might not be quick on the draw. Didn't consider that 4.4 might make all these ROMs all for naught. Still, I needed a faster phone and this certainly fits the bill!
At same time I did know that short of a GSM Nexus that I couldn't have guarantee of latest Android.
I'm stuck on Verizon until March 2013. I can then slap a GSM Sim in, hopefully. But I paid retail so it's not like I want to buy a new phone anytime soon.
Well. I have myself to blame. Again. But I am off contract in March and this will never happen to me again!
Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk
I am hopeful that when 4.4 comes out our devs will be able find a way for us to upgrade from 4.2 to a custom rooted 4.4 with out any issues. I do think that even stock unrooted this phone is fantastic it is carrier iq that is killing me. I'm sure att will put it in 4.4 also. Even though it was the carriers idea LG allows it to happen so I blame them also.
Sent from my LG-D800 using XDA Premium HD app
Are all G2s bootloader locked? Including the international D802? Or only the carrier branded ones?
Sent from my LG-D802 using xda premium
sacredsoul said:
Are all G2s bootloader locked? Including the international D802? Or only the carrier branded ones?
Sent from my LG-D802 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LG to my knowledge locks the bootloader on all its devices regardless of carrier.
This is troubling. The reason I chose the G2 was because it was the closest thing to the Nexus 5 on Verizon and had good developer support. Hopefully our fantastic developers will figure out a solution.
From what I understand, unless we upgrade to the official 4.4 LG ROM, there is no chance of this happening. Is that correct ?
I guess I'm selling the g2 for the nexus 5
Sent from my LG-D800 using Tapatalk
This is rubbish man..
sidthegreatest said:
From what I understand, unless we upgrade to the official 4.4 LG ROM, there is no chance of this happening. Is that correct ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's my take on it. It is built into the 4.4 kernel. I wonder if this had anything to do with Google buying Motorola in August. Lock the phones way down for the carriers.
Sent from my LG-D800 using XDA Premium HD app
If there will not be a 4.4 rom within 3 months guess it is a dirty shot for those who bought it and want to buy it like me
Looks like I'll be rolling with Nexus devices from now on. I guess it was bound to happen though, I'm sure OEM's wanted another security layer because of bootloader work a rounds. On the upside though, there will be less threads on device release days asking for root and ROM ETA's!
Sent from my Nexus 7
the funny thing even though android are opensource, the phones and hardware are not. Thats where improvement is. If you create an abstraction layer, where due to propriatary stuff its closed and updateable by vendor. Another layer, the OS can go on top, thusly eliminating hardware dependancy as well as increasing updatability. OS and security issues can then more easily be adressed, without the now unduable vendor involvement needed in integrating the new OS with all the hardware specifics. Given the entropy rate of new phones coming out, its undoable. This last, as wel as commercial reasons is why updates and fixes for security holes dont come fast. As of yet.
Right now we see the true devs juggling various devices as the rate of entropy in new devices is higher then more true devs coming in. Devices not even picket up by community cause there are no devs for it. The breaking point has come.
A new design must be made for this momentum, a new standard
Sent from my LG-D802
The bootloader may be locked, but since custom recovery is available our kernel can be modified...so we should be okay...right?
Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk
hhhmmmm not enjoying reading this thread
brucipher said:
The bootloader may be locked, but since custom recovery is available our kernel can be modified...so we should be okay...right?
Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
right. as long as you can flash custom kernels all this stuff should not be a problem.
it's about time to build some kitkat
KitKat has been out for like 5 days. Let's give the developers some time before everyone starts freaking out for no reason. They always find a way.
brucipher said:
The bootloader may be locked, but since custom recovery is available our kernel can be modified...so we should be okay...right?
Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think people who are already rooted will be ok , they will just need to avoid the official 4.4 until a custom rom is built. The bigger problem will be for new unrooted owners. I would imagine it being tricky to flash a custom kernel without the ability to root. I also agree in time the devs will figure something out.
TheBiles said:
KitKat has been out for like 5 days. Let's give the developers some time before everyone starts freaking out for no reason. They always find a way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Intub8 said:
I think people who are already rooted will be ok , they will just need to avoid the official 4.4 until a custom rom is built. The bigger problem will be for new unrooted owners. I would imagine it being tricky to flash a custom kernel without the ability to root. I also agree in time the devs will figure something out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just uninstalled recovery and was about to unroot and return to store, you guys gave me the slap in face I needed. Going to keep my badass phone now, thanks, drinks on me.
There's a leaked Samsung Android 4.4 schedule on the net and it points to January for the S4 and N3. Going by the title at the top of the screenshot/picture it's the international variant S4/N3. US will be even longer. I'm quite pissed about this as these are the flagship devices and should be upgraded MUCH sooner. Thoughts?
http://www.xda-developers.com/andro...xy-s-4-and-note-3-s-iii-and-note-ii-by-april/
Anybody complaining about non nexus devices not getting updates instantly have clearly not been paying attention the last 3 years. January is earlier than I would have predicted.
Sent from my SM-N900V using xda app-developers app
Not sure how big of a deal KitKat really will be,...
I installed some of the newer files [Email, Calendar, QuickOffice] from here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2506623
To get some of the newer available apps, but moving to 4.4 washes away the hard work that Devs [Hashcode, beans, and Hyper] have already invested into 4.3.
I find Root and ROMs much more beneficial than the OS,....for now. De-bloating and customization is key!!
4.4 literally brings no new Ingenuity or function.
give me a break; give me a break; don't break me off a piece of that kit kat rom.
ManOfBusiness said:
4.4 literally brings no new Ingenuity or function.
give me a break; give me a break; don't break me off a piece of that kit kat rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not entirely true, it does bring host card emulation to allow NFC devices without a secure element to use Google Wallet.
Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
We're men here. We always want the latest and greatest no matter what!
Sent from my SM-N900V using xda app-developers app
Doesn't 4.4 officially have like emojis integrated through the entire system? I could have sworn that's what I could have sworn I read. If it's true, that's enough for me to want the update :thumbup:
Sent from my Dev Edition Note 3
4.4 also allows you to record what your screen is doing natively. That is actually pretty awesome for helping give instructions on how to install etc.
Sent from my SM-N900V using xda app-developers app
Maybe they will mess up and leave some sort of exploit in the kernel or something so we can start flashing kernels and recoveries on this thing. Im starting to miss AOSP after a few weeks without my Note 2.....
shiftr182 said:
Maybe they will mess up and leave some sort of exploit in the kernel or something so we can start flashing kernels and recoveries on this thing. Im starting to miss AOSP after a few weeks without my Note 2.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We are trying to get Eclipse for our Note 3. He has aosp features added into the TW. There's a thread in general section if you are interested should check it out.
Harleydroid said:
We are trying to get Eclipse for our Note 3. He has aosp features added into the TW. There's a thread in general section if you are interested should check it out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Still isn't the same as having a bootloader bypass or unlock to truly run aosp.. heck we'd already be on kit kat if we had this that's where i will donate my funds to.
shiftr182 said:
Maybe they will mess up and leave some sort of exploit in the kernel or something so we can start flashing kernels and recoveries on this thing. Im starting to miss AOSP after a few weeks without my Note 2.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just flashed CM11 4.4 on my N2
kwkw480 said:
Still isn't the same as having a bootloader bypass or unlock to truly run aosp.. heck we'd already be on kit kat if we had this that's where i will donate my funds to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh I agree it's not the same.
shiftr182 said:
Maybe they will mess up and leave some sort of exploit in the kernel or something so we can start flashing kernels and recoveries on this thing. Im starting to miss AOSP after a few weeks without my Note 2.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Never buy a locked device expecting aosp. Always assume a locked bootloader will remain that way.
Sent from my SM-N900V using xda app-developers app
ManOfBusiness said:
4.4 literally brings no new Ingenuity or function.
give me a break; give me a break; don't break me off a piece of that kit kat rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you kidding? ART is potentially huge. I'd rather Samsung skip over 4.3 and go straight to 4.4 for this reason.
akellar said:
Never buy a locked device expecting aosp. Always assume a locked bootloader will remain that way.
Sent from my SM-N900V using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really had to think about it when I chose to get the Note 3, but I figure the features on this phone are pretty amazing, and the way its looking is that phones will mostly be locked in the future. ATT is locking theirs, Verizon is locking theirs, Im sure the rest will follow. If two out of the four major US carriers are doing this, there is a good chance that someone will find a way around it. For the time being, we have Hashcode who has found away around the lock for the most part. We just need to get something like Loki or KEXEC working.
My other option was to keep a phone that has outdated resolution, software and hardware..... I had the Note 2 for a year and was ready to move on.
mi7chy said:
Are you kidding? ART is potentially huge. I'd rather Samsung skip over 4.3 and go straight to 4.4 for this reason.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's going to be hard to do since we're already on 4.3
Sent from my SM-N900V using xda app-developers app
akellar said:
That's going to be hard to do since we're already on 4.3
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That part was for my Note 2. :cyclops:
We have no one to blame but ourselves. We accept the fact that the US carriers bend us over the barrel and do what they want to us. We accept it everyday by using their services, paying their crazy stupid prices and by accepting their restrictive contracts. Anyone who expects a US Wireless Carrier to offer an update let alone a Samsung update within a reasonable time frame is simply crazy.
The only reason the HTC One is getting it so fast is . . . well they don't have many phones to actually update or are worth updating so they have to keep pushing updates out to stay relevant. Of course the HTC one didn't get 4.2.2 we got stuck with 4.1.2 until we got 4.3. Of course I gave up on my HTC One long ago.
bajasur said:
4.4 also allows you to record what your screen is doing natively. That is actually pretty awesome for helping give instructions on how to install etc.
Sent from my SM-N900V using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Screen recording requires a PC attachment.
So what do you guys think will be the next update we will get you think Samsung/Tmobile will bother updating us to the 4.4.4 ??? Or just wait it out and go str8 to Android L ?? Will be interesting to see how Android L Looks once touchwiz is on top
I was wondering the same thing I'm betting we may not get Android L.... It probably makes more sense for Samsung to come out with a Galaxy s6 with Android L....
XandroidX said:
I was wondering the same thing I'm betting we may not get Android L.... It probably makes more sense for Samsung to come out with a Galaxy s6 with Android L....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But then again Samsung may want to compete with Apples iPhone6 . Let's try to keep hopes up :thumbup:
Sent from my SM-G900T using XDA Free mobile app
I'm guessing they'll update us to 4.4.4, then leave it till the S6 comes out. Probably a month after the S6 comes out we'll get L.
aooga said:
I'm guessing they'll update us to 4.4.4, then leave it till the S6 comes out. Probably a month after the S6 comes out we'll get L.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same thing I was thinking I don't think the galaxy 5 will ever see Android L or at least for a really long time right before the galaxy 6 comes out.....
I'm guessing that Galaxy F/S5Prime will more than likely get the priority of the updates before the s6 lol
Well there's the 18 month upgrade rule, supposely these carriers follow. So we'll see L, just most likely in the summer or fall 2015 unfortunately.
Sent from my SM-G900T using XDA Free mobile app
You guys are buggin! I got KitKat on my S4 (Sprint) around January/February. So I'd be willing to bet anything that w get L Q1 of 2015.
Joe0113 said:
You guys are buggin! I got KitKat on my S4 (Sprint) around January/February. So I'd be willing to bet anything that w get L Q1 of 2015.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol they are buggin, sg5 is a brand new phone, of course it will get andriod L update.
I'm disappointed we don't even have 4.4 yet, I don't understand how this works. Samsung devs finalize it, and send it off to carriers? And then carriers mess with it? This takes months and months?
Sent from my SM-G900T using XDA Free mobile app
bubblebuddyi said:
I'm disappointed we don't even have 4.4 yet, I don't understand how this works. Samsung devs finalize it, and send it off to carriers? And then carriers mess with it? This takes months and months?
Sent from my SM-G900T using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android is a highly fragmented OS, which is pretty annoying, luckily we can root and install our own 4.4 roms! haha
Thanat0s24 said:
Android is a highly fragmented OS, which is pretty annoying, luckily we can root and install our own 4.4 roms! haha
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We can, but none of them actually work.
aooga said:
We can, but none of them actually work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea any 4.4.4 rom have a bunch of important stuff broken so we do have to wait till Samsung pushes their TouchWiz update for us to be able to use 4.4.4
Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
gdmlaz said:
Yea any 4.4.4 rom have a bunch of important stuff broken so we do have to wait till Samsung pushes their TouchWiz update for us to be able to use 4.4.4
Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, that won't help either. Even the 4.4.2 ROMs are broken. The devs are trying hard to get the drivers working, but I don't know enough about that stuff to see what exactly is holding them back.
Thanat0s24 said:
Android is a highly fragmented OS, which is pretty annoying, luckily we can root and install our own 4.4 roms! haha
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
fragmentation is the wrong word, fragmentation implies that android as an entire OS is missing major features and apps are incompatible which is simply not the case, you're thinking of segmentation which is what android is now(back in the 2.2/2.3.3 days you would be right though). With 4.0 android being released, it really blurred the lines between different Android versions and made things very modular as opposed to lets say iOS which is very monolithic, you can not get the latest safari on an older version of iOS, you can however have the latest google now, maps, ect. on a device with 4.0 without rooting and have full functionality for the most part(just missing minor things like "ok google") and unlike iOS, aps built on newer versions of android work on older versions of android unlike iOS where newer apps are incompatible with older versions of iOS
I think an update is required. I have a glitch with the back cover. The current modem is pretty awful. It even makes my phone start up longer. The device even added that T-Mobile 4G LTE screen logo too. I remember it took no time to boot up the S5. Now, it takes mine roughly 30 seconds.
nviz22 said:
I think an update is required. I have a glitch with the back cover. The current modem is pretty awful. It even makes my phone start up longer. The device even added that T-Mobile 4G LTE screen logo too. I remember it took no time to boot up the S5. Now, it takes mine roughly 30 seconds.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mine takes about fifteen.
Edit: timed it. You're right. 27 seconds.
Sent from my SM-G900T using XDA Free mobile app
next update I'm sure it will be 4.4.4
First day with my edge plus and I'm wondering if there is a root method and any roms worth flashing. Thanks.
Nope. Won't be for a very long time
Doubt there will be one but I am a rootaholic and since I got this phone I haven't felt the need to want to root. Does everything I need well.
Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk
Why is that? why are you guys saying there wont be root nor roms for a long time? not a popular phone? or is it too new in the market? did I choose the wrong phone if I wanted mods?
ljbrenes said:
Why is that? why are you guys saying there wont be root nor roms for a long time? not a popular phone? or is it too new in the market? did I choose the wrong phone if I wanted mods?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're completely off. You chose the wrong carrier to buy phones from in general
LaosPerson said:
You're completely off. You chose the wrong carrier to buy phones from in general
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been with Verizon for ten years, 5 different phones and never had any issues getting plenty of roms and kernels for any of my phones, ever.
ljbrenes said:
I've been with Verizon for ten years, 5 different phones and never had any issues getting plenty of roms and kernels for any of my phones, ever.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No issues I bet. But probably a difficult process to get there. T-Mobile seems the best for modification, but anyhow, the s6 edge plus just has a hard lockdown because of Verizon making modification difficult, I looked at the T-Mobile variant forumns and they have a custom kernel and a few stock based modified roms
Hopefully is just a matter of time then. Thanks for the info. In the meantime I downloaded Package Disabler Pro and disabled a bunch of bloatware.
Well if you don't care about texting and talking, the tmobile variants do work with Verizon 4g. I've tested and it connects just fine.
Sent from my SM-N900V using XDA Free mobile app
Nothing yet, but it looks like they're getting closer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv0I45HtgtQ
Lodingi said:
Nothing yet, but it looks like they're getting closer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv0I45HtgtQ
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
how does a rooted g920f aosp rom have to do with a s6e+ on verizon?
those devices have unlocked BLs so they have way more options
I didn't know that. Sorry.
Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk
Lodingi said:
I didn't know that. Sorry.
Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no biggie..
to my knowledge i thought even if it did get rooted that it would no longer boot up on vzw/att? pretty sure youd need an unlocked BL regardless which most likely will not happen.. hasnt happened on vzwsammy since early s4 days lol
I don't think these phones have a good chance of getting root unless a universal method like towel root is discovered. Development is pretty much stagnant in the Verizon variants of these phones.
I blame all the a holes abusing unlimited data! With unlocked bootloader you can root, unlock WiFi Hotspot And feed the neighborhood
You don't need root for that... All you need is foxfi... Available on the Google play store
Sent from Samsung Galaxy S 6 Edge+
I guess I don't understand what unlimited means.
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
findinghomer said:
I blame all the a holes abusing unlimited data! With unlocked bootloader you can root, unlock WiFi Hotspot And feed the neighborhood
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dumb statement. It goes deeper than that. With advertisement being one of the big reasons why it's locked down.
warriorpluto said:
Dumb statement. It goes deeper than that. With advertisement being one of the big reasons why it's locked down.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is true, but it's not a dumb statement , because that is part of it too.
So, you order all you can eat fish and get charged more and draw haters because you ate all you could eat. Wouldn't you be pissed if you bought a car with free oil change for life and 2 years later they wanted to start charging you because they never foreseen you actually using it and taking them for their word.
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk