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I'm Just wondering since we have 2.2 now, do you think that we enjoy using our phones more because we have 2.2/2.3 or do you think its was overhyped because of the frequent updates of other companies? Personally I believe I enjoy my x10 more since the mods came out and i like the fact that there are more apps available to me and I think its nice to have the Gallery app as a default. Also the JIT compiler is nice to improve the speed of the device but maybe we overhyped the benefit of 2.2.
What do you guys think?
not really... bugged DT, no 16m collors, no official froyo with everything working, 30FPS limit.... it's my fault i bought this phone because of it's good looks before i read about it...
2.2 is definitely an upgrade, spending 10 months on a phone that can't browse properly after my 2 year old n95 had Flash was very frustrating, although I have it installed I still think dueltouch is a nice feature but very overrated, don't care much for 16m colours but in retrospect the X10 wil be my last SE phone for the simple reason that they didn't keep there promises.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
to be fair though we got dual touch and flash support now, x10 currently quite laggy in custom froyo, not sure whether it's hardware related or tweaking. it's not comparable with other high end device.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
Leonidas300 said:
2.2 is definitely an upgrade, spending 10 months on a phone that can't browse properly after my 2 year old n95 had Flash was very frustrating, although I have it installed I still think dueltouch is a nice feature but very overrated, don't care much for 16m colours but in retrospect the X10 wil be my last SE phone for the simple reason that they didn't keep there promises.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
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What promise did they break? None that I know of, and they gave us dualtouch after selling this phone as incapable due to hardware. They only said update to 2.1. Misinformation like this is what is causing all this ill-will for SE.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
They may not have broken a promise but they fail to adhere to standards we have come to expect from devices of the same type. Theres no real excuse. Sony should have stepped up there game to put them in a good light. Now people will be hesitant to buy an se phone if they have so many short comings. I feel that 2.2 brought a lot of key features which made me enjoy my phone much more
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
arj154 said:
They may not have broken a promise but they fail to adhere to standards we have come to expect from devices of the same type. Theres no real excuse. Sony should have stepped up there game to put them in a good light. Now people will be hesitant to buy an se phone if they have so many short comings. I feel that 2.2 brought a lot of key features which made me enjoy my phone much more
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
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Again, Misinformation! Failed to adhere to standards... blah blah blah? Android and smartphones are a new developing technology, and what is standard in this type of industry is here today gone tomorrow. SE is still developing this device, and will continue to do so on 2.1. We have had 4 recent updates with more coming. SE's mistake was being honest and open about their intentions before they realistically needed to. We just got 2.1 in November.
Pretending now that having the latest OS is expected for the X10, when we all bought this phone knowing it came with outdated 1.6 is ridiculous. It boggles my mind. What universe do live in?
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
16m colors was a promise..
Anyway i don't even care about official updates, se's version of android sucks in my opinion.
I'm quite happy with freex10. If it want for the devs on here with custom ROMs i would probably hate my phone..
agentJBM said:
Again, Misinformation! Failed to adhere to standards... blah blah blah? Android and smartphones are a new developing technology, and what is standard in this type of industry is here today gone tomorrow. SE is still developing this device, and will continue to do so on 2.1. We have had 4 recent updates with more coming. SE's mistake was being honest and open about their intentions before they realistically needed to. We just got 2.1 in November.
Pretending now that having the latest OS is expected for the X10, when we all bought this phone knowing it came with outdated 1.6 is ridiculous. It boggles my mind. What universe do live in?
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
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I fully understand that technology is developing rapidly specialy in the mobile phone game believe me and i think you fail to understand what i mean by standards. I mean standards as in the ones set by other manufacturers. Take the HTC desire for example. 2.2 wasnt out when it was launched however they updated it to 2.2 when it was available. HTC have changed the android device quite heavily with there senses UI yet they were still able to produce a 2.2 update for the phone.
I understand you may be angry at the moaners who say it should be updated to 2.3 or it should be updated as soon as the source code for 2.x is released. You've got to understand that we have bought a device which is capable of running a newer OS but SE haven't implemented a newer version.
Yes props to them for getting dual touch working but it seems like they havent fully gotten up to the standards of other manufacturers and they should try to do this otherwise they will fall behind.
When people like us buy a phone, we look to see if its going to be up to date in a year. The x10 is failing to get up to date in 6 months and its already being put on the sidelines. Yes sony are releasing updates but they seem to be too fragmented. The 2.1 update didnt have exchange, 16mil colours etc these features should've been included from the start.
arj154 said:
I fully understand that technology is developing rapidly specialy in the mobile phone game believe me and i think you fail to understand what i mean by standards. I mean standards as in the ones set by other manufacturers. Take the HTC desire for example. 2.2 wasnt out when it was launched however they updated it to 2.2 when it was available. HTC have changed the android device quite heavily with there senses UI yet they were still able to produce a 2.2 update for the phone.
I understand you may be angry at the moaners who say it should be updated to 2.3 or it should be updated as soon as the source code for 2.x is released. You've got to understand that we have bought a device which is capable of running a newer OS but SE haven't implemented a newer version.
Yes props to them for getting dual touch working but it seems like they havent fully gotten up to the standards of other manufacturers and they should try to do this otherwise they will fall behind.
When people like us buy a phone, we look to see if its going to be up to date in a year. The x10 is failing to get up to date in 6 months and its already being put on the sidelines. Yes sony are releasing updates but they seem to be too fragmented. The 2.1 update didnt have exchange, 16mil colours etc these features should've been included from the start.
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You expect too much, that's your problem. Say if you buy something today, are you expecting it to be updated? Like your car for example? Or Windows 7? You have to buy a new one...
Don't expect anything. Buy it, if you like it. Buy a new one, if you want a better model. Always works that way. You always have a choice...
roaringhere said:
You expect too much, that's your problem. Say if you buy something today, are you expecting it to be updated? Like your car for example? Or Windows 7? You have to buy a new one...
Don't expect anything. Buy it, if you like it. Buy a new one, if you want a better model. Always works that way. You always have a choice...
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Im sorry but I completely disagree. Companies like Sony should be pressured into competing with other manufacturers and I think your car example isnt relevant. If the car was capped at 40mph when it could do 120mph then it may be applicable or if a new computer came with windows 98.
If we didnt have any expectations then the market wouldnt move forward. Smartphones would be a stagnated market and there would be no competition. These standards drive competition and I'm not crazy for having them and I'm sure many people on this forum feel the same way.
You may think I'm expecting too much but all I want is for sony to keep up with other manufacturers and ensure that the phone reaches its full potential. If I had a phone which was half the power of the x10 e.g. 512mhz processor, 128mb RAM etc then I would be happy with 2.1 and a number of updates to optimise the phone. I would accept that its not capable and wait until i can afford an upgrade but this isnt the case. We know the x10 is capable of running 2.2 and it brings too many benifits for sony to ignore.
I see that your quite a stubborn person and you seem to be quite happy with sony trickling out updates as theyve done with all there phones. I know you probably havent read or fully taken in what I've said so please can you just let this go so the thread can get back on topic? I dont want to continue this argument as it seems youre too stubborn to talk to. I've repeated myself a number of times on this thread and I stand by my views that Sony should keep up with every other manufacturer.
roaringhere said:
You expect too much, that's your problem. Say if you buy something today, are you expecting it to be updated? Like your car for example? Or Windows 7? You have to buy a new one...
Don't expect anything. Buy it, if you like it. Buy a new one, if you want a better model. Always works that way. You always have a choice...
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Click to collapse
And by your logic manufacturers will always be free to screw their customers over just because for the past few years it's become the norm for them to release and shortly after, forget their handphones. And the x10 isn't even old. Android has changed the game. HTC gets it.
Is it unreasonable to expect Froyo on a device that by CURRENT standards, is still very competitively specd? And who cares if SE never promised Froyo for the first gen Android Xperias? We've got Froyo running thanks to some awesome devs here at xda, and the bootloader cracking is an ongoing project. There is still so much to do. So just sit back and watch.
To me, 2.2 is a significant upgrade. I know that SE plans to update the x10 but with improvements to 2.1 only. Thats fine, and props to SE for the support. But 2.2 is what this device really needs.
The X10 hardware is very crap..
So in my opinion SE can shove it.
2.3, 2.5, 3.0 won't fix the hardware..
arj154 said:
Im sorry but I completely disagree. Companies like Sony should be pressured into competing with other manufacturers and I think your car example isnt relevant. If the car was capped at 40mph when it could do 120mph then it may be applicable or if a new computer came with windows 98.
If we didnt have any expectations then the market wouldnt move forward. Smartphones would be a stagnated market and there would be no competition. These standards drive competition and I'm not crazy for having them and I'm sure many people on this forum feel the same way.
You may think I'm expecting too much but all I want is for sony to keep up with other manufacturers and ensure that the phone reaches its full potential. If I had a phone which was half the power of the x10 e.g. 512mhz processor, 128mb RAM etc then I would be happy with 2.1 and a number of updates to optimise the phone. I would accept that its not capable and wait until i can afford an upgrade but this isnt the case. We know the x10 is capable of running 2.2 and it brings too many benifits for sony to ignore.
I see that your quite a stubborn person and you seem to be quite happy with sony trickling out updates as theyve done with all there phones. I know you probably havent read or fully taken in what I've said so please can you just let this go so the thread can get back on topic? I dont want to continue this argument as it seems youre too stubborn to talk to. I've repeated myself a number of times on this thread and I stand by my views that Sony should keep up with every other manufacturer.
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No, smartphones would be a dead market if every phone got free updates for as long as the customers felt entitled, and no one ever had to buy another phone. Thereby stagnating growth. The more phones they sell, the faster this technology will develop. The great thing is its users can pick up where the manufacturers leave off.
Did you buy a service contact with this device? No, that is what is standard with companies that offer continual support. This product has a life of approx two years. It's a disposable product, and not meant to be used longterm.
I think one reason for there is such a disconnect is because younger and younger people are using technology. While they can use the device better than their elders, they are not wise in the ways of how things work in the real world. Life isn't fair, and nothing is free. This is the first product in modern history that I can think of that gets free updates and upgrades. You're going to be extremely disappointed if you think this is how business works.
Even HTC has issues their users aren't happy with, and HTC is owned by Google who created Android, so current OS is to be expected. Like fruit and iPhone. SE isn't selling their own OS.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
Error. Please delete.
agentJBM said:
No, smartphones would be a dead market if every phone got free updates for as long as the customers felt entitled, and no one ever had to buy another phone. Thereby stagnating growth. The more phones they sell, the faster this technology will develop. The great thing is its users can pick up where the manufacturers leave off.
Did you buy a service contact with this device? No, that is what is standard with companies that offer continual support. This product has a life of approx two years. It's a disposable product, and not meant to be used longterm.
I think one reason for there is such a disconnect is because younger and younger people are using technology. While they can use the device better than their elders, they are not wise in the ways of how things work in the real world. Life isn't fair, and nothing is free. This is the first product in modern history that I can think of that gets free updates and upgrades. You're going to be extremely disappointed if you think this is how business works. Even HTC has issues their users aren't happy with, and HTC isn't going to fix. Google who created Android also owns HTC, so more is to be expected. Like fruit and iPhone.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
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omg your incredibly ignorant and your clearly not reading what im saying. Im not expecting free updates forever. Im just expecting them to upgrade it to 2.2. Also did HTC abondon the HTC desire at 2.1? no they upgraded it to 2.2. I completely agree that its not economical to provide updates for free all the time.
You've got to move with the times too. We will demand updates, android is the platform which will push manufactures to develop phones with the current version of android.
I would gladly pay for an upgrade if it came to that, so its not an issue of money. Its about brand reliability, a lot of phone manufacturers rely on this. I have heard from so many family members who have owned sony erricson feature phones that have been put off by there software so its also the issue of the quality of there products.
You seem to thinks its fine just to stand by and let a company give you a faulty product. I mean if you got a burger which was completely undercooked and was not the way you expect it to be then you would complain. Its the same principle here.
You have a very jaded outlook on life it seems, i mean if you listen to the latest podcast of windows weekly, even paul thurrot has the same problems with windows phone 7 where micrsoft arent releasing updates fast enough to keep up with the competition. (and btw im pretty sure he's just over 40 so its not a generational gap).
In an ever critical industry that is technology, companies need to keep good brand reliability to keep on top of things.
Froyo provided the following benefits over Eclair:
- JIT compiler
- V8 javascript engine
- OpenGL ES 2.0
- App2SD
- USB tethering
- Wifi hotspot
- Bluetooth voice dialing
- MS Exchange support
- access to Adobe Flash 10.1
- access to Adobe Air
Seeing as how the first three provide significant speed boosts (we're seeing greater than 100% performance gains on 2.2 vs. 2.1 with JIT enabled), they alone are worth it. App2SD is pretty important as well, as SE saddled us with pretty measly app storage (especially when their custom apps are taken into account).
Now from what I can see, Gingerbread is less of an upgrade from Froyo (at least for the X10). But then SE hasn't given us Froyo.
arj154 said:
omg your incredibly ignorant and your clearly not reading what im saying. Im not expecting free updates forever. Im just expecting them to upgrade it to 2.2. Also did HTC abondon the HTC desire at 2.1? no they upgraded it to 2.2. I completely agree that its not economical to provide updates for free all the time.
You've got to move with the times too. We will demand updates, android is the platform which will push manufactures to develop phones with the current version of android.
I would gladly pay for an upgrade if it came to that, so its not an issue of money. Its about brand reliability, a lot of phone manufacturers rely on this. I have heard from so many family members who have owned sony erricson feature phones that have been put off by there software so its also the issue of the quality of there products.
You seem to thinks its fine just to stand by and let a company give you a faulty product. I mean if you got a burger which was completely undercooked and was not the way you expect it to be then you would complain. Its the same principle here.
You have a very jaded outlook on life it seems, i mean if you listen to the latest podcast of windows weekly, even paul thurrot has the same problems with windows phone 7 where micrsoft arent releasing updates fast enough to keep up with the competition. (and btw im pretty sure he's just over 40 so its not a generational gap).
In an ever critical industry that is technology, companies need to keep good brand reliability to keep on top of things.
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Me ignorant? Your the one who bought the device with the oldest OS, and are expecting it to suddenly be running the latest. You assumed to the point of feeling entitled to additional OS updates beyond what the specs for the device clearly stated, 2.1. You know what they say about assuming? It makes an ass out of u and me.
Yes it would be nice for additional updates, and maybe even expected if additional development didn't have to be done to make it work on the x10, but you are overestimating the number of people who feel jaded. We, in the forums, are a small percent, and the number who feel ripped off like you is only a portion of that.
The grass isn't always greener on the other side. Every product has unsatisfied customers. If not we'd all be buying the same device. The Xperia was never marketed as having the latest Android OS. It had great hardware like 8 mega pixel camera and 1 GHz processor. If you wanted the latest OS, you should have bought HTC, the device of the Android developer Google.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
agentJBM said:
Me ignorant? Your the one who bought the device with the oldest OS, and are expecting it to suddenly be running the latest. You assumed to the point of feeling entitled to additional OS updates beyond what the specs for the device clearly stated, 2.1. You know what they say about assuming? It makes an ass out of u and me.
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Yup, SE has made an ass out of you and me.
I bought SE because I had SE phones in the past, I liked the style and functions and I especially liked the supplied software for the PC. I've unbranded them too.
In the case of the X10, I went back to look at my review in September on Amazon just a few moments ago. I expected a AT&T 2.1 by the end of the year, and I thought that once the X12 was released, SE would give us a 2.2 also, since the phone was still in warranty/service. No one new about 2.3/2.4 at that time. I thought that because the phone only had 384mb RAM it wouldn't be able to handled 'Gingerbread' without 512mb which was the rumor at that time for it's specs.
Additionally in that review, I said that the phone was compromised by not having noise cancellation, and that SE was very slow at updating it, but for good reason.
What PO's me is the unexpected shortened term to EOL. EIGHT MONTHS ON ATT? This is almost unheard of. SE's PC companion software for this phone is not as robust as the prior versions and the USB driver for flashing doesn't work on XP SP3 and they won't fix it. They tell you to upgrade to W7.
Due to shortcomings in the Android OS which I did not investigate as much as I should have, simple things like bluetooth devices that I have from SE don't WORK FULLY with either 1.6 and 2.1, I need 2.3 to get the full function back for devices that are YEARS old and worked fine with $50 phones.
Most of my current annoyance at the situation right now is due to the abandonment of the phone by both AT&T and SE. Yeah, they are updating stuff, and AT&T is certainly trying to wait it all out so they only have to approve/screw up a singe firmware update.
I really really want to hear from AT&T and SE that they will upgrade the phone to the Arc for the subsidized or further reduced price without contract extension or penalty fees, but I don't think AT&T is going to carry it or SE very quickly (again).
stan.s said:
Yup, SE has made an ass out of you and me.
I bought SE because I had SE phones in the past, I liked the style and functions and I especially liked the supplied software for the PC. I've unbranded them too.
In the case of the X10, I went back to look at my review in September on Amazon just a few moments ago. I expected a AT&T 2.1 by the end of the year, and I thought that once the X12 was released, SE would give us a 2.2 also, since the phone was still in warranty/service. No one new about 2.3/2.4 at that time. I thought that because the phone only had 384mb RAM it wouldn't be able to handled 'Gingerbread' without 512mb which was the rumor at that time for it's specs.
Additionally in that review, I said that the phone was compromised by not having noise cancellation, and that SE was very slow at updating it, but for good reason.
What PO's me is the unexpected shortened term to EOL. EIGHT MONTHS ON ATT? This is almost unheard of. SE's PC companion software for this phone is not as robust as the prior versions and the USB driver for flashing doesn't work on XP SP3 and they won't fix it. They tell you to upgrade to W7.
Due to shortcomings in the Android OS which I did not investigate as much as I should have, simple things like bluetooth devices that I have from SE don't WORK FULLY with either 1.6 and 2.1, I need 2.3 to get the full function back for devices that are YEARS old and worked fine with $50 phones.
Most of my current annoyance at the situation right now is due to the abandonment of the phone by both AT&T and SE. Yeah, they are updating stuff, and AT&T is certainly trying to wait it all out so they only have to approve/screw up a singe firmware update.
I really really want to hear from AT&T and SE that they will upgrade the phone to the Arc for the subsidized or further reduced price without contract extension or penalty fees, but I don't think AT&T is going to carry it or SE very quickly (again).
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You know, even if AT&T gave us the update I bet most people, including myself, would stay generic because of AT&T's attempt to block us from non-market & some market apps. Even if SE gave us 2.2+, we would still be hacking it and installing our own custom ROMs and themes. The xda Xperia developers are the ones who have it rough.
I believe AT&T will do something for us. I am in a unique situation. I bought my X10a on November 10, during the update fiasco and I was told my X10a was coming already updated to 2.1. It obviously didn't. During the many phone calls since, they have always told me that I don't need to return the phone because something was around the corner. I'm sure everyone who has bought the X10a since has been told something similar.
Ps. I got the USB drivers to work on the flasher on my XP SP3. I remember having to find them and install myself, but I don't have any trouble.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
I just don't get this nonsense. I get why companies are screwing this all up but what I don't get is why we all continue to allow this. The Android update process is broken and there have been a flood of articles on the net talking about the subject. Not one that I have read has come even close to the right solution. Really testing what little faith I have left in the human race. Why so dramatic? Because we have been using the model for our Windows PC for years and yet in somebody's great wisdom chose what we have here and now. Cmon!
Could you imagine getting your Windows PC updates from Time Warner Cable? What a disaster that would be right? What do you think would happen with our PC updates? Exactly what we are dealing with right now on Android. I just don't see what the problem is. Google develops and distributes the OS and updates directly to the end user. The phone manufacturer supplies the appropriate drivers on their website and the carrier keeps their greasy mitts off my phone. Win win for everyone.
I posted this because I think its the best solution. Its better than what we have now that's for sure. What I'm hoping to get out of this post is that you either agree with me or you have a better solution we can all get behind and push for. I know the Windows way isn't perfect and some things will have to be done differently but we don't need to be concerned with all the details. In other words for Example.....Dear Verizon, Samsung, Google. This is how we want out updates. Just get it done and deal with it.
Full Disclosure: Yeah I'm posting this because I'm pretty heated this hasn't been seriously addressed yet. I'm heated more people aren't pushing for more of a Windows update process. I'm heated because I bought a Galaxy Nexus this time around to avoid this and still getting screwed. I'm heated because All my phones have greater potential and we are proving it here at XDA everyday.
One more thought. We really shouldn't be buying our hardware from the carriers either. All any of them have proven so far is that they can run a pretty stable dumb pipe. Every other venture has failed. Like Vcast. I just dont trust them with what may soon replace my wallet among many other things. It could very well be our most personal possessions in these times and they control every aspect we allow them to. It needs to stop. What do you think? Do you want the windows way? Or do you have a better idea?
Long term there are definitely some issues that need to be fixed with Android.
Bloatware is one of the things that annoys me, and judging from the reviews left on Google Play, it annoys everybody. I'm fine with them preinstalling crap on my phone even though I don't like it, PC OEMs have been doing this for years. But it should be completely uninstallable without root.
For OS updates I see no reason why minor versions (ex: 2.3.6 to 2.3.7) can't be distributed from Google to all phones. These updates shouldn't affect drivers and would be similar to Windows Updates. But more people are concerned with major version updates which can't be done this way as they involve driver and/or kernel updates.
Google has a very hands off policy when it comes to Android it seems. OEMs are given a lot of freedom and Google doesn't do much to help them bring updates quickly. This hands off approach may have been a good business model in the early days of Android when Google just wanted to get it out there by any means possible, but I think they need to be more involved now. They should allow OEMs in on development earlier by giving them access to early builds of the next version similar to how Microsoft does. The reason PC OEMs get the newest version on their systems so quickly is because OEMs and hardware manufacturers get to use betas even before the public can. This model may not work on Android, but I really think Google needs to reassess their stance on Android, its not 2009 anymore.
This sort of issues with android is holding back...a lot of companies like presonus (pro audio) dont even bother with developing controlling software for their hardware on android...
Its a shame because we have some very capable hardware but ať least with apple **** they do the work once and it works...
If they were to make applications and have to deal with different hardware and screen resolutions they wouldnt have time to do their job..
A shame that oné day i might have to buy an iPad because of them
the long and short of it is no, at the moment they cant. Windows works because it is a modular kernel which allows for drivers to be installed and therefore easy customisations to be made. Linux is a monolithic kernel which means it needs all drivers for all configurations of hardware in it and then it uses the ones it needs. Android uses the linux kernel so it is difficult to support all the different kinds of hardware on phones in one kernel without it getting huge and hard to manage.
That is before you get to the need to have basebands/amss working with the kernel to provide mobile phone connection and hardware management. You also need bootloaders, recovery consoles etc to work on every phone. Only once those components are in place can you start to talk about keeping the android system up to date on top of those.
Google can't do it all unless they start over and make tools that are compatible with all kinds of hardware.
The easiest way is probably to make a google certification requirement that all manufacturers must support phones through 2-3 major update cycles. That does mean the end of cheap phones and lots of different and smaller niche products though.
Personally I think that the new hardware requirements for ICS are going to mean the end of ldpi and maybe even mdpi android phones as well as anything without a gpu, less than 512mb of ram and a 1ghz or so cpu. Maybe once the hardware becomes a bit more uniform, it will start to get easier to keep up to date too.
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So this may be a stupid question, and I know that the HDX bootloader is essentially a tank, but in other cases I know some devices have gotten lucky by chainloading u-boot to load custom kernels and such. Is this possible in our instance, or am I totally off-base and missing something? I mean I'm assuming I am wrong as noone has mentioned it yet, but I'm just curious as to why.
S_transform said:
So this may be a stupid question, and I know that the HDX bootloader is essentially a tank, but in other cases I know some devices have gotten lucky by chainloading u-boot to load custom kernels and such. Is this possible in our instance, or am I totally off-base and missing something? I mean I'm assuming I am wrong as noone has mentioned it yet, but I'm just curious as to why.
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No, the issue here is, most of the guys that have low level Qualcomm experience are not here. We, aside from maybe Hashcode, are mostly adventurous hackers & tweakers. Don't get me wrong, Cpajuste has made some big strides & I've saved a ton of bricks, but for me it's mostly because I've been around XDA since 2002 or 2003. In fact, I used to have a username for every platform, the last being 2006 when XDA started say only one account per person, which was my new WM6 account.
At any rate, we are limited because of a few reasons, such as the HDX is not really a device available worldwide. That knocks a lot of potential developers out of the equation. The second issue is that it's not mainstream Android. It is a fork viewed as inferior by most, regardless of how much better the hardware is. The HDX is also still a fairly new device, particularly when you consider the LTE models just started shipping mid-December.
So, sure it can & probably will even happen, but just look how long it took to fully unlock the Verizon Note 2 bootloader or especially some of the 2012 Moto devices. Nearly a year? Maybe more for some?
GSLEON3 said:
No, the issue here is, most of the guys that have low level Qualcomm experience are not here. We, aside from maybe Hashcode, are mostly adventurous hackers & tweakers. Don't get me wrong, Cpajuste has made some big strides & I've saved a ton of bricks, but for me it's mostly because I've been around XDA since 2002 or 2003. In fact, I used to have a username for every platform, the last being 2006 when XDA started say only one account per person, which was my new WM6 account.
At any rate, we are limited because of a few reasons, such as the HDX is not really a device available worldwide. That knocks a lot of potential developers out of the equation. The second issue is that it's not mainstream Android. It is a fork viewed as inferior by most, regardless of how much better the hardware is. The HDX is also still a fairly new device, particularly when you consider the LTE models just started shipping mid-December.
So, sure it can & probably will even happen, but just look how long it took to fully unlock the Verizon Note 2 bootloader or especially some of the 2012 Moto devices. Nearly a year? Maybe more for some?
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Click to collapse
Thanks for the response, this makes a lot of sense. Its like I understand in my head its probably going to take a long time if ever, I'm just not wired to be particularly patient.
I have heard so many opinions in general to this question when it comes to the Note 8 specifically as well as all Androids, iPhones, Windows OS, etc. Some people feel these phones have been developed to be on all the time and really don’t need to be restarted at all. These same individuals feel that it uses more battery to do these restarts so that will hurt the phone because it will decrease the number of limited battery cycles that one has. However, other people feel you should be restarting your phone to improve battery life as well as performance. Some suggest when you receive your security update, approximately monthly. Some suggest weekly, twice a week, daily. I’ve even heard others that say if you use 40-50% straight you should be restarting your phone. With regards to the last scenario, those individuals have said they restart as much as 3 times a day. Some believe you should shut down when you charge and do it nightly when they charge their phones. For me that won’t work because I charge my phone in the morning while I’m eating breakfast, showering and getting ready. I think it would be great to find out from someone who knows what is the best way to take care of our phones as opposed to the manufacturers who obviously want our phones to eventually die so we have to buy new ones. I enjoy my Note 8 and can’t foresee myself getting a new phone until at the earliest probably the Note 10. Only because everything I read/watch discuss that could be a very special phone, but there’s obviously a good possibility that it won’t happen. While Apple definitely changed their phone with the iPhone X, I was expecting a lot more. Luckily for them I’m not their customer. At least, not yet but their OS would have to change dramatically as well as they would need to create something that could compete with the S Pen. I highly doubt I would ever become their customer, but I’m digressing. Even though I didn’t spend that much for my Note 8 on preorder, but it’s obvious that the prices are going up. If that keeps happening and they don’t offer as much on their sales, promos, deals, trade ins, etc., we as consumers in general will probably be trying to hold on to our phones as long as possible. While in my opinion there is still one huge issue regarding the OS in the fact that the phones that are released are optimized for the current version of the OS that is out. So with that in mind eventually updating your phones to a particular OS could be detrimental and the manufacturers may force us to upgrade. So as long as we keep our devices healthy by practicing certain habits. One would be to make sure we don’t always jump at the new OS unless we know that it would agree with our current phone that we are using. The other habits include charging as well as restarting our devices. I’m sure there are even others. But this is what prompted me to create this thread. I would greatly like us as consumers to come up with a list of good habits to come up with to keep our phones healthy which would prolong their lifetimes. I mentioned that I was interested in knowing how often people restart their phones and that is what primarily I’m looking for, but I still think it would be great to use this to go over any items that anyone thinks could be beneficial for us. This way we can decided when we want to upgrade as opposed to being forced into upgrading. I hope this makes sense to everyone and I value everyone’s opinions. I’m looking forward to hearing what everyone’s thoughts are. Thanks in advance for everyone’s participation.
sll1313 said:
I have heard so many opinions in general to this question when it comes to the Note 8 specifically as well as all Androids, iPhones, Windows OS, etc...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And now you want to hear even more opinions in general to this question ?
Sent from my Note 8 using XDA Labs
sll1313 said:
I have heard so many opinions in general to this question when it comes to the Note 8 specifically as well as all Androids, iPhones, Windows OS, etc. Some people feel these phones have been developed to be on all the time and really don’t need to be restarted at all. These same individuals feel that it uses more battery to do these restarts so that will hurt the phone because it will decrease the number of limited battery cycles that one has. However, other people feel you should be restarting your phone to improve battery life as well as performance. Some suggest when you receive your security update, approximately monthly. Some suggest weekly, twice a week, daily. I’ve even heard others that say if you use 40-50% straight you should be restarting your phone. With regards to the last scenario, those individuals have said they restart as much as 3 times a day. Some believe you should shut down when you charge and do it nightly when they charge their phones. For me that won’t work because I charge my phone in the morning while I’m eating breakfast, showering and getting ready. I think it would be great to find out from someone who knows what is the best way to take care of our phones as opposed to the manufacturers who obviously want our phones to eventually die so we have to buy new ones. I enjoy my Note 8 and can’t foresee myself getting a new phone until at the earliest probably the Note 10. Only because everything I read/watch discuss that could be a very special phone, but there’s obviously a good possibility that it won’t happen. While Apple definitely changed their phone with the iPhone X, I was expecting a lot more. Luckily for them I’m not their customer. At least, not yet but their OS would have to change dramatically as well as they would need to create something that could compete with the S Pen. I highly doubt I would ever become their customer, but I’m digressing. Even though I didn’t spend that much for my Note 8 on preorder, but it’s obvious that the prices are going up. If that keeps happening and they don’t offer as much on their sales, promos, deals, trade ins, etc., we as consumers in general will probably be trying to hold on to our phones as long as possible. While in my opinion there is still one huge issue regarding the OS in the fact that the phones that are released are optimized for the current version of the OS that is out. So with that in mind eventually updating your phones to a particular OS could be detrimental and the manufacturers may force us to upgrade. So as long as we keep our devices healthy by practicing certain habits. One would be to make sure we don’t always jump at the new OS unless we know that it would agree with our current phone that we are using. The other habits include charging as well as restarting our devices. I’m sure there are even others. But this is what prompted me to create this thread. I would greatly like us as consumers to come up with a list of good habits to come up with to keep our phones healthy which would prolong their lifetimes. I mentioned that I was interested in knowing how often people restart their phones and that is what primarily I’m looking for, but I still think it would be great to use this to go over any items that anyone thinks could be beneficial for us. This way we can decided when we want to upgrade as opposed to being forced into upgrading. I hope this makes sense to everyone and I value everyone’s opinions. I’m looking forward to hearing what everyone’s thoughts are. Thanks in advance for everyone’s participation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Samsung+ App even recommends restarting after a certain number of days and will send a notification. Restarting the phone has nothing to do with battery cycles. For a lithium ion battery 1 cycle is how many times its charged to 100% that would be like 2 50% charges or 4 25% charges that is what equals a cycle
I never restart unless the battery dies or there is a software update.
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It is always good android ettiquiet to reboot say 1 a day or every couple days to clear old out.
I know android has come a long way in terms of memory management but I still feel daily reboots are good. Plus all the wltweaks and mods most of us do. Require reboots on daily multi times a day anyways....
TheMadScientist said:
It is always good android ettiquiet to reboot say 1 a day or every couple days to clear old out.
I know android has come a long way in terms of memory management but I still feel daily reboots are good. Plus all the wltweaks and mods most of us do. Require reboots on daily multi times a day anyways....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, couldn't agree more.
I reboot mine every morning (leaving it plugged overnight to charge). May be just a placebo, but I feel like rebooting 1x a day keeps it fresh.
On the technical side, I assume some processes don't start/ aren't triggered because you don't use everything daily (some apps, functions of the note8 itself)
SaadatM said:
Yeah, couldn't agree more.
I reboot mine every morning (leaving it plugged overnight to charge). May be just a placebo, but I feel like rebooting 1x a day keeps it fresh.
On the technical side, I assume some processes don't start/ aren't triggered because you don't use everything daily (some apps, functions of the note8 itself)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've noticed some very prominent screen tearing/lag when using a 3-4+ day uptime OS. After reboot it goes away and doesn't come back until another 3-4 days. so I restart mine like 2x a week now. Mondays and Thursdays. Non-rooted, stock Unlocked US Note8.
I would be glad if my note 8 would run a day without rebooting. [emoji24]
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I have my exynos European ones do the weekly automatic restart and do the occasional one besides that so probably twice a week
I only reboot when I feel the phone is a bit laggy, which is hardly ever, I find that Android does a decent job of managing memory usage and the inbuilt software regularly advises of which apps it's hibernated and put to sleep. I sometimes go weeks or even update to update between reboots. On occasion I've rebooted a few times in a day.
Personally, I don't think there is a right and wrong here, which is why there are so many opinions.
I reboot mine every couple of days. About once a week I clear the cache partition. After every major update I factory reset. I also check daily to ensure my apps are up to date. My phone runs just as good as it did out of the box 6 months ago! I have the least amount of problems with my phones, out of everyone I know. That includes both Android and iPhones.
When I first bought the phone after using smart switch my phone would get extremely hot while I was using it while not charging the phone, it would lag really bad and it felt like the phone was being strangled to death, and I only had the phone for a week after it's release and Samsung customer service was useless and Verizon made me fight them for a month before they sent out a new phone, which had the exact same issues. I later found out that Verizon's CSCfeatures "bloatware/firmware" was causing the problems on the phone so I flashed the unlocked firmware and eventually rooted but that fixed the issues I had.
Now I run 2× as many apps still get better battery life and the phone never heats up. I use substratum themes, I reboot my phone every other day or after updating apps and re-applying the themes I use. If I'm using my phone extremely heavily through the day I reboot 2-3 times. I also go to my apps list in setting and clear cache and force close all the apps at least once a week, I also have my phone auto reboot every Sunday morning as well and my phone runs smooth, fast, and I don't have any problems
reboot is an option on the phone. It can be used to the user's discretion.
Just use your phone and enjoy it. If you constantly overcharge or let the battery run very low it could reduce battery life over time, but otherwise you are just fiddling within the margins... Don't stress about the micro management stuff too much. It's a tool to make our lives easier, it's not a baby
sefrcoko said:
Just use your phone and enjoy it. If you constantly overcharge or let the battery run very low it could reduce battery life over time, but otherwise you are just fiddling within the margins... Don't stress about the micro management stuff too much. It's a tool to make our lives easier, it's not a baby
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I actually agree with you and that’s exactly how I use to handle to things more or less. I would at least reboot once a week. However, within the last month I started to have issues with Smart Lock, specifically Trusted Places. It worked flawlessly and now it’s not. One of the ways (among others) that I’ll get it to work on a temporary basis (1-2 days) is if I reboot. In quite interesting how many different answers I’ve gotten in this thread, which like 1 person posted is what I’m getting everywhere else. I was hoping for something else. Ironically, one person posted they reboot sometimes when it runs out of power, yet I read that is one of the issues people are complaining about. That if it goes to 0%, they’re not able to get it to boot back up. I’ve never taken the chance because of what I read, but obviously that’s not everyone (based on that 1 person’s post). I’m on Verizon (like at least on of the posts mentioned) and my phone may very infrequently get ever so slightly get very, very minorly warm. It’s actually one of the coolest phones I’ve ever owned. Others I spoke to are not having issues with Trusted Places, like I use too. So this really makes me scratch my head on why there is so much variance. I love the S Pen and honestly because there’s no competition is probably why I haven’t looked elsewhere, especially with how Samsung handled the Note 7 fiasco. In addition, it was my understanding with every article I read is that they were going to make it up to us. I didn’t see that anywhere. In fact, I thought the least they could do was make sure that the original S Note app was pre-installed on the phone. They knew that we as consumers were upset it was missing from the Note 7 (they were supposed to be bringing it back on that phone within a month, but then the battery issue). So you would think they would remember and make sure it was there. Instead if you wanted it you had to side load it. To me that was horrible customer service. I’m digressing. Getting back to the original post, I guess there really isn’t anything that people are doing as a whole. But I guess this would make sense when we are all getting phones that aren’t even uniform to begin with (phones that won’t turn back on after 0% battery, overheating phones, Trusted Places not working, that Samsung lag still experienced by some, etc.). What makes less sense to me is because of the S Pen, Android, and other items, I still feel the Note 8 is still the best device out. As long as I writing this, what’s everyone’s opinion on Oreo? To me it doesn’t see like there really is any specific feature that we really don’t have. IMO, it looks like the only advantage would be if it makes our phones run smoother. I’ve just found a lot of people upset that we haven’t gotten it yet and my opinion is phones are optimized for whatever OS is out at the time and if we’re not careful, upgrading to the wrong OS (whether it’s Android or iOS) may make our phones run worse, potentially a lot worse. Just my opinion. I still would love to get a more uniform answer to my original post, but as long as I’m asking anyone have issues recently with Trusted Places and figure out a permanent fix? Thanks in advance for any help. I’ve been going through a lot of health issues, so I will try and respond when I can.
I reboot when i need to, ends up being in a cycle of about 4/5 days.
I personally would reboot it every 2 days or 1 day. it will do no harm to reboot the device.
Am sure Samsung or google added a option in there somewhere to automatically reboot your device at a set time.
Its similar to your desktop pc, leave running for 45 days and see how slow and clunky it feels.
Restart it and see how fast it feels.
Given the due turning a device off and on, does use it s most power, so if you are running low on juice a restart may not be the best option.
I personally think your reading into it way too much,
If your phone is slow or behaving abit stupidly, restart
dave7802 said:
Am sure Samsung or google added a option in there somewhere to automatically reboot your device at a set time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just search "restart" in the settings section. You'll see this screen pop up. You can set a weekly restart whenever you want. You don't even have to think about it after that
rile1564 said:
Just search "restart" in the settings section. You'll see this screen pop up. You can set a weekly restart whenever you want. You don't even have to think about it after that
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I appreciate your response, but it doesn’t necessarily answer how often one she restart their phone. However, more specifically to your response, Verizon actually disabled that feature. I understand some of the other ones, but not this one. Except for one possibility, and that would be the fact that is important to reboot. Based on Verizon’s action here, it would seem they are trying to prevent the user from remembering to do these reboots. Obviously they would prefer you to keep buying phones for them to make money. I wasn’t sure how important this was to the carriers because I always thought they just passed the cost off to the consumer until Samsung’s newest phones. Now 3 out of the big 4 carriers all seemed to mark up the cost of the phones, which surprised me. I really thought it would be more important for them to try and keep their customers, but they it looks like they are all trying to convince people to move to T-Mobile.
I had another question that maybe you could help me with. I touched on it slightly before regarding Smart Lock that was working perfectly up until a few weeks ago. Then I started to have problems with a Trusted Places. I just noticed something quite interesting and that when I say to Google Assistant “Where am I” or “Where’s my phone”, I notice the location icon turn on. Now the Trusted Places works for at most for a couple of days again and then I can just repeat it. Well it seems like to me that the Location Services either goes to sleep or shuts itself off. I looked and I don’t have anything set to have this happen. It’s set on. So any suggestions. This has been frustrating me for quite sometime. It’s actually what lead me to this thread because I’m happy with the Note 8 and I really don’t want to see its performance deteriorate. Well this is the only thing negative that’s happened recently. So I’m hoping you have an idea. Thanks for anyone’s help. Like I said, I really appreciate it. It’s probably the only more frustrating than figuring out how to get the original S Note app on the device. Well I finall took care of that, so I really hope that there’s a solution to this. Again sorry for the lengthy post.
sll1313 said:
I have heard so many opinions in general to this question when it comes to the Note 8 specifically as well as all Androids, iPhones, Windows OS, etc. Some people feel these phones have been developed to be on all the time and really don’t need to be restarted at all. These same individuals feel that it uses more battery to do these restarts so that will hurt the phone because it will decrease the number of limited battery cycles that one has. However, other people feel you should be restarting your phone to improve battery life as well as performance. Some suggest when you receive your security update, approximately monthly. Some suggest weekly, twice a week, daily. I’ve even heard others that say if you use 40-50% straight you should be restarting your phone. With regards to the last scenario, those individuals have said they restart as much as 3 times a day. Some believe you should shut down when you charge and do it nightly when they charge their phones. For me that won’t work because I charge my phone in the morning while I’m eating breakfast, showering and getting ready. I think it would be great to find out from someone who knows what is the best way to take care of our phones as opposed to the manufacturers who obviously want our phones to eventually die so we have to buy new ones. I enjoy my Note 8 and can’t foresee myself getting a new phone until at the earliest probably the Note 10. Only because everything I read/watch discuss that could be a very special phone, but there’s obviously a good possibility that it won’t happen. While Apple definitely changed their phone with the iPhone X, I was expecting a lot more. Luckily for them I’m not their customer. At least, not yet but their OS would have to change dramatically as well as they would need to create something that could compete with the S Pen. I highly doubt I would ever become their customer, but I’m digressing. Even though I didn’t spend that much for my Note 8 on preorder, but it’s obvious that the prices are going up. If that keeps happening and they don’t offer as much on their sales, promos, deals, trade ins, etc., we as consumers in general will probably be trying to hold on to our phones as long as possible. While in my opinion there is still one huge issue regarding the OS in the fact that the phones that are released are optimized for the current version of the OS that is out. So with that in mind eventually updating your phones to a particular OS could be detrimental and the manufacturers may force us to upgrade. So as long as we keep our devices healthy by practicing certain habits. One would be to make sure we don’t always jump at the new OS unless we know that it would agree with our current phone that we are using. The other habits include charging as well as restarting our devices. I’m sure there are even others. But this is what prompted me to create this thread. I would greatly like us as consumers to come up with a list of good habits to come up with to keep our phones healthy which would prolong their lifetimes. I mentioned that I was interested in knowing how often people restart their phones and that is what primarily I’m looking for, but I still think it would be great to use this to go over any items that anyone thinks could be beneficial for us. This way we can decided when we want to upgrade as opposed to being forced into upgrading. I hope this makes sense to everyone and I value everyone’s opinions. I’m looking forward to hearing what everyone’s thoughts are. Thanks in advance for everyone’s participation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Paragraphs, son.
Paragraphs.
I only reboot it to apply some overlays every now and then so that's once a week I think?
Doesn't make a difference in speed for me. It always feels fast.
I never reboot my computer either except for updates once a month or so.
Doesn't make a difference at all to me
Anybody think we'll get some kind of update pushed out allowing us to unlock our bootloader now that lg wont be making phones anymore?
I'm honestly surprised no one has chimed in. At all. These are some great phones. Being able to root and customize would make this phone a ton better. But I don't think lg cares at all.
I wouldn't count on it, personally. I'm frankly surprised that they've committed to 2-3 major OS upgrades (or as many years of support) for their post-2019 flagships as is, like our V60. I think that, beyond I suppose a renewed focus on their software update department, they're just going to completely wash their hands with mobile. And I still think they'll ultimately fail us on that promise of 2 to 3 years of software support. With no more active R&D and development on new devices and their software, we can probably completely rule out refreshed UIs and just expect bi-monthly security updates, maybe Android 12 on our V60s, and perhaps Android 13 on the Wings and Velvets. If that. I'm still extremely skeptical.
Edit - Edited to fix the supposed final Android versions for the V60s, Velvets, Wings, etc.
Mejilan said:
I wouldn't count on it, personally. I'm frankly surprised that they've committed to 2-3 major OS upgrades (or as many years of support) for their post-2019 flagships as is, like our V60. I think that, beyond I suppose a renewed focus on their software update department, they're just going to completely wash their hands with mobile. And I still think they'll ultimately fail us on that promise of 2 to 3 years of software support. With no more active R&D and development on new devices and their software, we can probably completely rule out refreshed UIs and just expect bi-monthly security updates, maybe Android 11 on our V60s, and perhaps Android 12 on the Wings and Velvets. If that. I'm still extremely skeptical.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We do hace android 11 for V60, at least TMobile model. I wouldnt bet on A12 though. They should release bootloader code and what not though so we can at least get a bootloader unlock and aim for custom roms and such. Just because there backing out of the smartphone business now dosent mean there isnt a chance for comeback later. If they just screw everyone completely right now there not only ruining chances of a future comeback but also ruining there already bad name.
jwarrior319 said:
We do hace android 11 for V60, at least TMobile model. I wouldnt bet on A12 though. They should release bootloader code and what not though so we can at least get a bootloader unlock and aim for custom roms and such. Just because there backing out of the smartphone business now dosent mean there isnt a chance for comeback later. If they just screw everyone completely right now there not only ruining chances of a future comeback but also ruining there already bad name.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I'm on AT&T and got A11 a couple of updates back. I too would be shocked to get A12 as well, though it sounds like they're at least planning on supporting the V60 that long. They have no real interest in catering to folks who jailbreak or root, as that makes up an infinitesimally small part of their potential demographic. In other words, catering to folks like us that post to forums like this isn't going to be any kind of factor for them in the short-term or long-term future, IMO. We are not the audience that makes or breaks their mobile business, and we never will be. As for the post you quoted, I meant to say "maybe Android 12 on our V60s, and Android 13 on the Velvets and Wings." (stress on the "maybe). I'll fix that post.
I would love to see it, but I will not hold my breath. Would provide a great deal of goodwill toward the company.