The news on the Wi-Fi Krack Attack says it was discovered a few months ago, but an Android patch won't come until November 2017 security update?
So the V30 is launching with this huge Wi-Fi security vulnerability, probably not to be patched for several months or more (if ever)?
That might be enough to give many potential buyers pause, waiting on the patch. If so, discounts might ramp sooner and steeper.
Anybody have any info to offer regarding V30 and Krack Attack?
TIA...
Its a lot more hype and hysteria than anything .... IMO
Unless you go door to door visiting wifi services, it's nothing to lose sleep over.
Tinkerer_ said:
The news on the Wi-Fi Krack Attack says it was discovered a few months ago, but an Android patch won't come until November 2017 security update?
So the V30 is launching with this huge Wi-Fi security vulnerability, probably not to be patched for several months or more (if ever)?
That might be enough to give many potential buyers pause, waiting on the patch. If so, discounts might ramp sooner and steeper.
Anybody have any info to offer regarding V30 and Krack Attack?
TIA...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good grief dude. This vulnerability exists on every single phone that's got Android 6 or higher (plus just about every device, not even just phones) which means every single phone launched in the past two years. So if you bought an Android phone since then (or anything that connects to wifi for that matter), you're already vulnerable and have been for a while. I'll reiterate, every device that connects via wifi is vulnerable. All of them.
But there's really great news. The V30. It's a cellphone. It has cellular data radios built in. In fact, my data speeds across my cell network are faster than across any wifi point I connect to. Which is to say, I have zero reason to connect my phone to a wifi point.
If you are using a laptop, desktop, or whatever, you have more reason to worry about those.
CHH2 said:
Good grief dude. This vulnerability exists on every single phone that's got Android 6 or higher (plus just about every device, not even just phones) which means every single phone launched in the past two years. So if you bought an Android phone since then (or anything that connects to wifi for that matter), you're already vulnerable and have been for a while. I'll reiterate, every device that connects via wifi is vulnerable. All of them.
But there's really great news. The V30. It's a cellphone. It has cellular data radios built in. In fact, my data speeds across my cell network are faster than across any wifi point I connect to. Which is to say, I have zero reason to connect my phone to a wifi point.
If you are using a laptop, desktop, or whatever, you have more reason to worry about those.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for more "ready-fire-aim" snark, CHH2.
The point is this: Since we all know that most existing Android phones are vulnerable to Krack, it might occur to (some of) us that we should look to our next new phone to NOT have this vulnerability.
Especially given the abysmal (to nonexistent) performance of security updates provision for most phones after the sale. (Except for Apple, Google, Samsung... am I missing any? LG sux at this too, correct?)
And further, because rooting makes OTAs (including those to get security patches) a time-consuming hassle with added risk, after the sale.
Thanks in advance to any who can offer info about the original question.
...
Tinkerer_ said:
The news on the Wi-Fi Krack Attack says it was discovered a few months ago, but an Android patch won't come until November 2017 security update?
So the V30 is launching with this huge Wi-Fi security vulnerability, probably not to be patched for several months or more (if ever)?
That might be enough to give many potential buyers pause, waiting on the patch. If so, discounts might ramp sooner and steeper.
Anybody have any info to offer regarding V30 and Krack Attack?
TIA...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really?
Good grief...
Really?
steve841 said:
Its a lot more hype and hysteria than anything .... IMO
Unless you go door to door visiting wifi services, it's nothing to lose sleep over.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe. Unless there are "script kiddy" youth nearby with too much idle time and parents buying them too many toys, who like to hack for entertainment.
I think these responses are instructive, about the sort of blasé attitude towards SW/HW faults in general, and security in particular, that lead to nontrivial system flaws and security vulnerabilities like this in the first place.
Also, note that it took a researcher in Belgium, not the US, to discover this defect. Coincidence? (Let's dispense with cute euphemisms like "bug", and call them what they are: Faults, and defects.)
Still hoping for useful info about the issue itself. (How many "good grief"s does it take?
...
Tinkerer_ said:
Thanks for more "ready-fire-aim" snark, CHH2.
The point is this: Since we all know that most existing Android phones are vulnerable to Krack, it might occur to (some of) us that we should look to our next new phone to NOT have this vulnerability.
Especially given the abysmal (to nonexistent) performance of security updates provision for most phones after the sale. (Except for Apple, Google, Samsung... am I missing any? LG sux at this too, correct?)
And further, because rooting makes OTAs (including those to get security patches) a time-consuming hassle with added risk, after the sale.
Thanks in advance to any who can offer info about the original question.
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey! Look at this! Both my V20 and V30 have the BlueBorne patch! So, no, they do not suck at this. And that's even having to go through the carrier gateway too. And yes, I already offered to information about the original question but just for giggles....
Tinkerer_ said:
Maybe. Unless there are "script kiddy" youth nearby with too much idle time and parents buying them too many toys, who like to hack for entertainment.
I think these responses are instructive, about the sort of blasé attitude towards SW/HW faults in general, and security in particular, that lead to nontrivial system flaws and security vulnerabilities like this in the first place.
Also, note that it took a researcher in Belgium, not the US, to discover this defect. Coincidence? (Let's dispense with cute euphemisms like "bug", and call them what they are: Faults, and defects.)
Still hoping for useful info about the issue itself. (How many "good grief"s does it take?
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Risking a hand slap from a mod, you're just an attention whore. Just Google the information like the rest of us did and you'll see why we're all "blase". And what exactly are you trying to infer that it took Belgians to discover this defect? There are labs, developers, companies, and testers around the world constantly poking and prodding at this stuff looking for the next hole because there will always be a next hole. Just like your home, internet security is an illusion, especially when you are connecting to wi-fi. With or without this attack, wi-fi is problematic. And that's why some of us aren't allowed to connect our work computers to wi-fi networks unless they are known entities.
You're too busy running around exclaiming the sky is falling while most of us already know not to stand under certain parts of the sky because that's not the sky falling, that's bird droppings.
Oh, and faults and defects are called bugs in software. That's just how we do things on the software side of things. (And yes, I deal with software and hardware on a daily basis for work.)
I think I understand.
The V30 will have this defect (security vulnerability affecting all wifi) for a lonnng time after launch. Asking about the vulnerability in an XDA forum brings "good grief" and hostile ad hominem in response, rather than relevant info about the issue itself. Textbook hubristic defensiveness.
Maybe the hubristic culture that tries to make everyone think SW defects and security vulnerabilities are OK, is getting a boost from the string of massive security breaches recently, like Equifax and OPM. Who cares about security and privacy, when everything is pwned anyway, right? Just go with the flow, don't even try to secure anything anymore.
Thanks for the information.
Tinkerer_ said:
I think I understand.
The V30 will have this defect (security vulnerability affecting all wifi) for a lonnng time after launch. Asking about the vulnerability in an XDA forum brings "good grief" and hostile ad hominem in response, rather than relevant info about the issue itself. Textbook hubristic defensiveness.
Maybe the hubristic culture that tries to make everyone think SW defects and security vulnerabilities are OK, is getting a boost from the string of massive security breaches recently, like Equifax and OPM. Who cares about security and privacy, when everything is pwned anyway, right? Just go with the flow, don't even try to secure anything anymore.
Thanks for the information.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Way to make up what you want to read. Like I said, LG update the V20 and V30 for the BlueBorne attack pretty quickly. I suspect that as soon as Android is patched for this, it'll filter down pretty quickly. In the meantime, you can just wear a tinfoil hat to keep the bad rays out. All manufacturers will be working on this and getting fixes out ASAP. After that, it'll be on to the next bug. Because that's how things are in the software world.
CHH2 said:
Hey! Look at this! Both my V20 and V30 have the BlueBorne patch! So, no, they do not suck at this. And that's even having to go through the carrier gateway too. And yes, I already offered to information about the original question but just for giggles....
Risking a hand slap from a mod, you're just an attention whore. Just Google the information like the rest of us did and you'll see why we're all "blase". And what exactly are you trying to infer that it took Belgians to discover this defect? There are labs, developers, companies, and testers around the world constantly poking and prodding at this stuff looking for the next hole because there will always be a next hole. Just like your home, internet security is an illusion, especially when you are connecting to wi-fi. With or without this attack, wi-fi is problematic. And that's why some of us aren't allowed to connect our work computers to wi-fi networks unless they are known entities.
You're too busy running around exclaiming the sky is falling while most of us already know not to stand under certain parts of the sky because that's not the sky falling, that's bird droppings.
Oh, and faults and defects are called bugs in software. That's just how we do things on the software side of things. (And yes, I deal with software and hardware on a daily basis for work.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed.
My 2014 Moto XT1225 -- rooted with Nougat custom ROM -- has BlueBorne patch while Motorola couldn't care less about a 3 year old phone that never got anything past Marshmallow. And next month, when Google releases the security patch for this Krack Attack, I'll be patched for that too!
This is why rooting and custom ROMs will ALWAYS give you the latest security patches, and you don't have to depend on the kindness of OEMs who might take 3 or 4 months to push out something even if you do have "new" device that still gets updates.
If someone if suggesting to skip the LG V30 because of this, that's really silly.
1) LG will most certainly patch it. Will just take some time. Rooting and custom ROMs are the way to go. You can even get OTA updates with most ROMs nowadays.
2) What happens when the "next big thing" hits? Is that person going to always sell their phone every time out of fear?
^Exactly
Oh look! Someone finally put together an article about why this is such a Chicken Little issue! You'll note that not even the Pixels have the fix and it doesn't really matter.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/201...until-december-but-is-that-really-a-big-deal/
Related
http://phandroid.com/2010/10/05/skype-for-android-now-available-worldwide/
Edit
that's right, is doesn't work on the Vibrant.
guess what it does not work on vibrant 2.1
amorek13 said:
guess what it does not work on vibrant 2.1
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Click to collapse
It appears that it doesn't work on any galaxy s phone..
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
It's a POS app
no Video calling
no group calling
They waited this long to release this Garbage?
Fring was doing an excellent job, until Skype shut them down.
UGH SKYPE is a POS company
Galaxy S owners get the shaft ... yet again! Maybe we should just recognize the fact that AT&T/iPhone 4 is the best game in town and quit trying to play catch up.
There is a GPS fix that allows it to work excellent. Get over it.
dcchristopher said:
Well, at least we all now know a little more about the two of you. I don't blame you entirely for your disgraceful behavior. Surely your upbringing had a lot to do with it.
I don't see how what I said was inflammatory but perhaps it was misperceived. Allow me to explain: I paid $500 for this device. I honestly don't even need the phone aspect of it. I just need it to access the internet (email, web, etc), then as a media player, and then occasionally as a GPS device. The calling capabilities are literally icing on the cake. Let's just skip the whole GPS part since that needs no introduction. It simply doesn't work (unless you consider your location jumping around every 10 seconds "working" ... yeah, what fun it is to be hearing erroneous directions from your GPS device). T-mobile's voice and data services have been quite paltry in my experience. Calls drop quite often and that's something many Tmo subscribers complain about, especially near downtown and on a NexusOne. Moreover, data takes FOREVER to connect. I could be getting 4mbps/2mbps one second, then 750k/300k the next, then incessant data connection attempts with no data being transmitted ... until I reboot my phone. WTF??? A month ago I was driving from Dallas to San Antonio and got nothing but Edge the whole way down ... all along an interstate highway (albeit one of the worst I've ever seen) ... the phone was even occasionally switching to "G" and it took me forever to remember what that stood for ... GPRS!!! I haven't seen that since the 90s.
If you guys think it is acceptable to get ripped off like that, for hardware and services, by all means continue condoning and promoting Tmo and Sammy's failures and inaction by rewarding them for all that. These phones went on sale 7/15, around the same time Tmo announced their HSPA+ network. Three months later, you expect at least "an" action. No credits, no buy-backs, no remedies ... only failed promises. If you bought a car that couldn't perform as advertised and spec'd, I'm sure you would act differently.
But ... judging from your comments above, you guys are entirely worthy of your fate.
Best,
DCC
P.S. I dislike Apple fanboys just as much as the next guy but at some point we all need to man up to the facts ... the iPhone has the best user experience ... and Windows Phone 7 offers the best development experience (trust me, I have written/am writing apps for all three). The only thing positive about Android in my opinion is the tight integration of all the Google apps and services ... which oddly are not favored by many Android fans on this site ... in addition, they are increasingly being integrated in the other platforms as well (albeit not fast enough). Again, why Android? If it's because you want to be this decade's equivalent of the 90s' Linux geek who spends all day customizing the OS and the environment instead of actually using it and putting to good use, then have fun! Don't feel bad ... most people do not learn from history's lessons either!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Believe me I hear you, but you make your case weak. Individual experience differs from Joe to Jane.
The biggest advantage of Android over the other's is the hardware support for every major mobile manufacturer.
And Windows Mobile 7? We will see how the numbers look by the Xmas.
Yes, I am a linux geek, but I didn't purchase my phone because I am one.
As for the OP, Skype went downhill once they went to bed with the big red.
So why do you have a tmo vibrant? Why not get an i*hone? There are pros and cons to any device and any carrier...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
lqaddict said:
Believe me I hear you, but you make your case weak. Individual experience differs from Joe to Jane.
The biggest advantage of Android over the other's is the hardware support for every major mobile manufacturer.
And Windows Mobile 7? We will see how the numbers look by the Xmas.
Yes, I am a linux geek, but I didn't purchase my phone because I am one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really wanted Android to succeed but it hasn't and I'm not necessarily blaming Android itself. I just don't see how I can choose it when the hardware and carrier are dropping the ball. All three (OS, hardware, carrier) are part and parcel. "Hardware support" is not enough when the hardware itself is not cutting it. First the Hero had build quality and connectivity issues, now the Vibrant has an elusive Froyo build and major GPS issues (in response to a previous post, I have yet to see a truly working "fix" and I have installed most if not all of them ... whoever claims it's now perfectly working is smoking something he/she should share with the rest of us).
Thank you for keeping an open mind and I do agree with you that individual experiences will vary but let's agree that this forum is proof that there are major unaddressed problems with this phone.
junkdruggler said:
So why do you have a tmo vibrant? Why not get an i*hone? There are pros and cons to any device and any carrier...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for applying intelligence and not resorting to childish name-calling ... simply put, I left AT&T after a decade of being their customer because my non-iPhone superphones (usually purchased from abroad but compatible with US 3G) were being intentionally disregarded by their network in favor of the iPhone devices out there ... $110 a month for a discriminating data service is not acceptable. iPhones are also a little "too user-friendly" for me. I preferred a more open platform. At this point though, I will settle for a device that "just works". That is what every iPhone user will tell you out there ... the s*** just works. A phone is something that should enable you to do things with it, whether it's productivity, app development, multimedia, services, etc. A phone is not a perpetual hack factory, at least not as a primary device. If people want a side project to play with, great. What I have seen on this forum though is that most people need a phone that works for them, not the other way around.
I am waiting for the first generation WP7 phones to roll out and see what drama will ensue, if any. As you very astutely stated, "there are pros and cons to any device and any carrier". I really enjoy the WP7 mobile app development environment and so long as the phones are not involved in yet another fiasco, I will most likely get one. If not, the iPhone it is.
I'm not trolling and I do not mean to offend hard-core Linux super-users/developers but this business of shoddy phones, shoddy service and endless "hacking" is not right when we're all paying 50-100 a month for service and 200-500 for devices. I am surprised that people are not up in arms about it. There really needs to be a class-action lawsuit over this. I know, a handful of lawyers will just make a shipload of money. Still, companies cannot get away with this sort of negligence. This isn't the first time and it sure as heck won't be the last.
Vote with your dollars and best luck to you,
DCC
If browse over the iphone forums you will see the plethora of posts complaining about this and that on the iphone too.
There is no magic cookie cater for anything, you will always find something to be not up to your standards.
What confuses me the most is people complaining about the features that are not being the prime in the market cliché they are shopping - for instance, neither Android nor iOS are good examples of the enterprise use, but people still insist that my phone does not integrate well with my corporate Exchange environment the way I *want* hence the product sucks.
Everything has its pluses and minuses, it's up to an individual to weigh in the pros and cons to make a conscious buying decision.
lqaddict said:
If browse over the iphone forums you will see the plethora of posts complaining about this and that on the iphone too.
There is no magic cookie cater for anything, you will always find something to be not up to your standards.
What confuses me the most is people complaining about the features that are not being the prime in the market cliché they are shopping - for instance, neither Android nor iOS are good examples of the enterprise use, but people still insist that my phone does not integrate well with my corporate Exchange environment the way I *want* hence the product sucks.
Everything has its pluses and minuses, it's up to an individual to weigh in the pros and cons to make a conscious buying decision.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really want to say "I hear ya" but here's the deal ...
a) I glanced over the iPhone fora and I am not seeing anything glaring ... mostly basic user ignorance (configuration / customization issues)
b) all the iPhone users I have asked what their biggest complaint is about their phone give me the same "huh?" look ... their phone just works
c) all the major issues with iPhone 4 were addressed with some sort of fix or another, even if all it took was a rubber band ... I have friends who exchanged their phone well after the 30 days because of the proximity sensor issue (just as an example) ... clearly, Apple took ownership of resolving the deal-breaking issues
When I walked into a T-mobile store after the first 30 days and said "I will not put up with this GPS BS" they kindly restated their return policy, gave me Samsung's support number and sent me on my not-so-merry way. When I contacted Samsung, I was told to simply wait for the update as there was no fix for it so a replacement wouldn't accomplish anything. The customer service rep literally laughed when I mentioned a return of the product for refund.
You're absolutely right ... there will always be issues but this isn't a matter of preference or individual taste ... these companies are failing to deliver what they promised and what we have paid for and rightfully deserve. I am in no way saying that the iPhone is perfect; I'm sure I would have something to complain about from time to time ... but when I borrow friends' phones to "play" with, the iPhone is fast and responsive and hasn't failed me once. Load SpeedTest side-by-side. The "Begin Test" button lights up literally instantly. I know the Galaxy S phones have the same hardware. Why is it they can't be as responsive?
As I previously mentioned, I was with AT&T (or one of the companies it acquired or merged with) for over a decade until the Hero came out and I switched to Sprint. Then I went to T-mobile for the Vibrant. I will just make my rounds until I find something that works. My problem is that I get way too overexcited about the technology and jump ship before it has had a chance to prove itself. Right now the iPhone 4 has proved itself fairly well. As I said though, as a mobile apps developer, I really want WP7 to work out so I will _try_ to wait and see. The development experience is "magnifique!"
Best,
DCC
It's really disheartening to see android sinking like this because if googles ignorant attitude. I agree with you, if google woukd be a bit more proactive like Apple or Microsoft (now that they revamped) and set a standard for the OS requirement, quality control. We can all breath better. I have a bad feeling that once wm7 hit, Android will be the new WM6.5, a cheap buggy and unorganized akternative for manuftre and carriers.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
PaiPiePia said:
It's really disheartening to see android sinking like this because if googles ignorant attitude. I agree with you, if google woukd be a bit more proactive like Apple or Microsoft (now that they revamped) and set a standard for the OS requirement, quality control. We can all breath better. I have a bad feeling that once wm7 hit, Android will be the new WM6.5, a cheap buggy and unorganized akternative for manuftre and carriers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for chiming in. Hopefully Android will survive, even if only because competition is a good thing. I think most of the issues faced today (so-called fragmentation, etc) will be resolved in the re-architecture being introduced in Android 3.0. I'm more concerned about the carriers and hardware manufacturers closing up shop after a phone has been released and only looking forward to the next model. What good is it if Android survives and succeeds if I am the one left holding the dud? "Oh, just pay another two to five hundred dollars." The worst part is that the user/owner community turns a blind eye to the egregious failures in the name of fandom. That is NOT the way to organize and effect change.
dcchristopher said:
I really want to say "I hear ya" but here's the deal ...
a) I glanced over the iPhone fora and I am not seeing anything glaring ... mostly basic user ignorance (configuration / customization issues)
b) all the iPhone users I have asked what their biggest complaint is about their phone give me the same "huh?" look ... their phone just works
c) all the major issues with iPhone 4 were addressed with some sort of fix or another, even if all it took was a rubber band ... I have friends who exchanged their phone well after the 30 days because of the proximity sensor issue (just as an example) ... clearly, Apple took ownership of resolving the deal-breaking issues
When I walked into a T-mobile store after the first 30 days and said "I will not put up with this GPS BS" they kindly restated their return policy, gave me Samsung's support number and sent me on my not-so-merry way. When I contacted Samsung, I was told to simply wait for the update as there was no fix for it so a replacement wouldn't accomplish anything. The customer service rep literally laughed when I mentioned a return of the product for refund.
You're absolutely right ... there will always be issues but this isn't a matter of preference or individual taste ... these companies are failing to deliver what they promised and what we have paid for and rightfully deserve. I am in no way saying that the iPhone is perfect; I'm sure I would have something to complain about from time to time ... but when I borrow friends' phones to "play" with, the iPhone is fast and responsive and hasn't failed me once. Load SpeedTest side-by-side. The "Begin Test" button lights up literally instantly. I know the Galaxy S phones have the same hardware. Why is it they can't be as responsive?
As I previously mentioned, I was with AT&T (or one of the companies it acquired or merged with) for over a decade until the Hero came out and I switched to Sprint. Then I went to T-mobile for the Vibrant. I will just make my rounds until I find something that works. My problem is that I get way too overexcited about the technology and jump ship before it has had a chance to prove itself. Right now the iPhone 4 has proved itself fairly well. As I said though, as a mobile apps developer, I really want WP7 to work out so I will _try_ to wait and see. The development experience is "magnifique!"
Best,
DCC
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess I went to the apple forums before the proximity sensor issues were resolved, and it was Vibrant GPS Redux over there.
I am glad that Apple took care of the problem after a few updates to their iOS, but as with the GPS issues on our phones the proximity sensor should've been caught during the QA, I am not gonna say anything about Antennagate.
Hopefully GPS will be patched for good on the Vibrant too, and no I do not need the proof that it is addressed with the latest update - faster locks does not mean accuracy.
scrizz said:
Fring was doing an excellent job, until Skype shut them down.
UGH SKYPE is a POS company
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Click to collapse
Its those bloody Iphone Users that were clogging up the servers using Fring that caused fring to gett banned from skype
cdill3000 said:
Its those bloody Iphone Users that were clogging up the servers using Fring that caused fring to gett banned from skype
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't let Skype off the hook though ... I used to be a big fan of theirs but they've been very slow with delivering platform-specific clients and they seem to be playing favorites and such. Closing the door on fring, a very, very open solution out there, was a deplorable thing to do.
It doesn't matter folks ... when Google comes out with their VOIP service, and you KNOW they will (Gizmo5 acquisition, etc), all these other (dis-)services will be obliterated. I predict Google will establish its own data-only cell carrier (cause data is all you need anyway) ... hopefully within the next 2-3 years.
I know this thread kinda derailed off topic, but imma put my two cents in.
I do kinda agree with DCC, at my workplace pretty much everyone has some sort of smart phone. When the subject of phones comes up, I am the first one to bang my chest and yell ANDROID~!
But the sad truth is, iphone users like the iphone because IT DOES WHAT THEY NEED IT TO DO. they really dont care about all the stuff we have come to love about android.
So they are happy and content, while we are up till the wee hrs of the morning trying to make our phones have a milli-second faster lol.
And to me its not really trying to make our phones better than the iphone, its me just making my phone better than it was.
I am disappointed in samsung about the lag issue and the gps issue.
I dont complain about it though, cause we are all here at this website to make our phones better than it is from stock. and I am 100 percent sure , once its said and done, this phone will more than satisfy me.
As far as I've read, Fring violated Skype's API and when they were challenged Fring, instead of changing their code, resolved to drop Skype support altogether. It's basically Fring's fault for not playing according to the rules. Fring issued a statement saying that Skype blocked them. It's an unlikely story since Skype has a fairly open API and would be leaving itself open to lawsuit if they did so.
blogs.skype.com/en/2010/07/fring.html
Where are you guys reading or hearing these things from?
cashless said:
As far as I've read, Fring violated Skype's API and when they were challenged Fring, instead of changing their code, resolved to drop Skype support altogether. It's basically Fring's fault for not playing according to the rules. Fring issued a statement saying that Skype blocked them. It's an unlikely story since Skype has a fairly open API and would be leaving itself open to lawsuit if they did so.
blogs.skype.com/en/2010/07/fring.html
Where are you guys reading or hearing these things from?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Umm, definitely NOT from either side's highly partial blog, that's for sure ... which, by the way, you are misquoting. Fring did not drop Skype support all together. They temporarily disabled video calls because Skype and the carriers were *****ing about it (due to the excessive load on their networks). Then they were suddenly blocked from routing connections through Skype. This is an obvious behind-closed-doors ganging up of Skype+carrier(s) against Fring who stands alone and is one of the most open companies out there.
I get it, no one here really knows what happened when and why but ... Skype is no victim. On the other hand, the Objectivist in me says Skype should have every right to deny Fring (or any individual, company or group in the world) access to their systems. I just wish they would come out and say it instead of being all sly about it.
dcchristopher said:
Umm, definitely NOT from either side's highly partial blog, that's for sure ... which, by the way, you are misquoting. Fring did not drop Skype support all together. They temporarily disabled video calls because Skype and the carriers were *****ing about it (due to the excessive load on their networks). Then they were suddenly blocked from routing connections through Skype. This is an obvious behind-closed-doors ganging up of Skype+carrier(s) against Fring who stands alone and is one of the most open companies out there.
I get it, no one here really knows what happened when and why but ... Skype is no victim. On the other hand, the Objectivist in me says Skype should have every right to deny Fring (or any individual, company or group in the world) access to their systems. I just wish they would come out and say it instead of being all sly about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Saying that a company violated API publicly when they didn't is libel.
Just answer the question, your smugness, where did you get your info (especially seeing as you're stating that it's an obvious behind-closed-doors ganging up of Skype+carrier(s) against Fring. I guess you're one of these people behind these closed doors?
Lemme get your "jump to conclusions" board for you.
So this may be a stupid question, and I know that the HDX bootloader is essentially a tank, but in other cases I know some devices have gotten lucky by chainloading u-boot to load custom kernels and such. Is this possible in our instance, or am I totally off-base and missing something? I mean I'm assuming I am wrong as noone has mentioned it yet, but I'm just curious as to why.
S_transform said:
So this may be a stupid question, and I know that the HDX bootloader is essentially a tank, but in other cases I know some devices have gotten lucky by chainloading u-boot to load custom kernels and such. Is this possible in our instance, or am I totally off-base and missing something? I mean I'm assuming I am wrong as noone has mentioned it yet, but I'm just curious as to why.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, the issue here is, most of the guys that have low level Qualcomm experience are not here. We, aside from maybe Hashcode, are mostly adventurous hackers & tweakers. Don't get me wrong, Cpajuste has made some big strides & I've saved a ton of bricks, but for me it's mostly because I've been around XDA since 2002 or 2003. In fact, I used to have a username for every platform, the last being 2006 when XDA started say only one account per person, which was my new WM6 account.
At any rate, we are limited because of a few reasons, such as the HDX is not really a device available worldwide. That knocks a lot of potential developers out of the equation. The second issue is that it's not mainstream Android. It is a fork viewed as inferior by most, regardless of how much better the hardware is. The HDX is also still a fairly new device, particularly when you consider the LTE models just started shipping mid-December.
So, sure it can & probably will even happen, but just look how long it took to fully unlock the Verizon Note 2 bootloader or especially some of the 2012 Moto devices. Nearly a year? Maybe more for some?
GSLEON3 said:
No, the issue here is, most of the guys that have low level Qualcomm experience are not here. We, aside from maybe Hashcode, are mostly adventurous hackers & tweakers. Don't get me wrong, Cpajuste has made some big strides & I've saved a ton of bricks, but for me it's mostly because I've been around XDA since 2002 or 2003. In fact, I used to have a username for every platform, the last being 2006 when XDA started say only one account per person, which was my new WM6 account.
At any rate, we are limited because of a few reasons, such as the HDX is not really a device available worldwide. That knocks a lot of potential developers out of the equation. The second issue is that it's not mainstream Android. It is a fork viewed as inferior by most, regardless of how much better the hardware is. The HDX is also still a fairly new device, particularly when you consider the LTE models just started shipping mid-December.
So, sure it can & probably will even happen, but just look how long it took to fully unlock the Verizon Note 2 bootloader or especially some of the 2012 Moto devices. Nearly a year? Maybe more for some?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the response, this makes a lot of sense. Its like I understand in my head its probably going to take a long time if ever, I'm just not wired to be particularly patient.
We know that google introduced new mobile payment system i.e. Android Pay
In order to use android pay we need to Have NFC on our mobile device . One plus 2 which is known as "2016 Flagship killer " Should have NFC so , can we add NFC to OP2 as I have seen two terminals at back of device.
IMHO it doesn't make sense to release a 2016 "flagship" without nfc, now that there is all that payment thing going on; this is a dealbreaker for me.
let's hope they make a nfc enabled back cover or something.
yeah i really need a nfc enabled back cover, or a diy NFC solution is also ok
elban said:
now that there is all that payment thing going on
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Over time millions of people will lose their jobs because of people getting used to using their phones with self checkout registers. Millions of people who will have less money to spend on things or services that other companies need to sell in order to hand out paychecks to their employees. This will have terrible consequences.
and people will lose their job because we use electricity instead of oil to light up the streets...
but the handsfree system could use Bluetooth
http://www.slashgear.com/google-hands-free-sounds-like-android-pay-sans-android-28385795/
if adoption is good enough this could make nfc useless
sssggg said:
Over time millions of people will lose their jobs because of people getting used to using their phones with self checkout registers. Millions of people who will have less money to spend on things or services that other companies need to sell in order to hand out paychecks to their employees. This will have terrible consequences.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why are you using the internet to talk to people?!
SEND LETTERS!!!
Think of all of the postmen losing their jobs because of people like you!
I rest my case.
sssggg said:
Over time millions of people will lose their jobs because of people getting used to using their phones with self checkout registers. Millions of people who will have less money to spend on things or services that other companies need to sell in order to hand out paychecks to their employees. This will have terrible consequences.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This isn't really a very good argument. You could say the same about any technology. Might as well be living in the stone age.
sssggg said:
Over time millions of people will lose their jobs because of people getting used to using their phones with self checkout registers. Millions of people who will have less money to spend on things or services that other companies need to sell in order to hand out paychecks to their employees. This will have terrible consequences.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wait, doesn't this argument work for credit cards at self-checkout registers too? Or... cash? Not sure how the phone is relevant.
May be NFC is not used frequently , but for those people who need it , it is necessary
thebobmannh said:
Wait, doesn't this argument work for credit cards at self-checkout registers too? Or... cash? Not sure how the phone is relevant.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course it does. And it's relevant, because NFC payments that are being authorized by using your phone's fingerprint scanner are making things MUCH easier and faster. The more people get used to paying this way, the more self-checkout registers you will see in the wild.
You guys may be laughing now, but last time I bought something from IKEA, they had at least 6 or 8 self-checkout registers open but only one where you could pay in cash. Pretty much the same situation at a nearby supermarket and the hardware store and this is just the beginning.
sssggg said:
Of course it does. And it's relevant, because NFC payments that are being authorized by using your phone's fingerprint scanner are making things MUCH easier and faster. The more people get used to paying this way, the more self-checkout registers you will see in the wild.
You guys may be laughing now, but last time I bought something from IKEA, they had at least 6 or 8 self-checkout registers open but only one where you could pay in cash. Pretty much the same situation at a nearby supermarket and the hardware store and this is just the beginning.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know about laughing, but certainly chuckling at how dramatic you're being. I for one welcome our new robot overlords. As others have said, technology will always displace jobs, and new jobs will alwyas pop up in their place. At least, they have historically. ATMs "replaced" bank tellers like 40 years ago, and I'm sure people were crying to the heavens then too.
Sorry you lost your job, though.
sssggg said:
Of course it does. And it's relevant, because NFC payments that are being authorized by using your phone's fingerprint scanner are making things MUCH easier and faster. The more people get used to paying this way, the more self-checkout registers you will see in the wild.
You guys may be laughing now, but last time I bought something from IKEA, they had at least 6 or 8 self-checkout registers open but only one where you could pay in cash. Pretty much the same situation at a nearby supermarket and the hardware store and this is just the beginning.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which brings me back to my previous argument. What about the car? I bet plenty of horse and buggy drivers lost their jobs. What about automatic telephone connection? Switchboard operators lost their jobs. What about computers? Plenty of manual calculators lost their jobs. Do we just denounce all tech?
Heisenberg said:
Which brings me back to my previous argument. What about the car? I bet plenty of horse and buggy drivers lost their jobs. What about automatic telephone connection? Switchboard operators lost their jobs. What about computers? Plenty of manual calculators lost their jobs. Do we just denounce all tech?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes.
Lol
Sent via Note 10.1 2014 Edition on Tapatalk
elban said:
IMHO it doesn't make sense to release a 2016 "flagship" without nfc, now that there is all that payment thing going on; this is a dealbreaker for me.
let's hope they make a nfc enabled back cover or something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok the following:
a) that payment thing is going on for quite a while and it will take another while until it will be well established and if you're so much for the latest stuff, by then you'll have the next or over next generation device already
b) you can add nfc to ANY device for exaxtly 1$ and by typing your bluetooth address into the right spot. since i do not have oxygen OS i can only tell you where that is when i have the device and albeit i don't currently us nfc i will probably do it just to show all the moaners how silly they were
to pay so much attention to something so easy to solve.
magnamentis said:
ok the following:
a) that payment thing is going on for quite a while and it will take another while until it will be well established and if you're so much for the latest stuff, by then you'll have the next or over next generation device already
b) you can add nfc to ANY device for exaxtly 1$ and by typing your bluetooth address into the right spot. since i do not have oxygen OS i can only tell you where that is when i have the device and albeit i don't currently us nfc i will probably do it just to show all the moaners how silly they were
to pay so much attention to something so easy to solve.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1) you can pay with NFC since some years ago, so it's not a new tech waiting to be accepted and widespread, because it's already.
2) NFC has a lot of other uses other than paying.
3) I expect a flagship to have at least all the hardware that the other mid range and even some low cost phones have.
4) If you like the phone buy it. I won't.
elban said:
1) you can pay with NFC since some years ago, so it's not a new tech waiting to be accepted and widespread, because it's already.
2) NFC has a lot of other uses other than paying.
3) I expect a flagship to have at least all the hardware that the other mid range and even some low cost phones have.
4) If you like the phone buy it. I won't.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah, we flew to the moon in 1996 but still the average user cannot book any trip up there. those payment methods are both, available very sparse and used even more sparse. my point was not if it's technically available or if it exists, it was about whether this is a MUST have NOW which it is not, albeit i agree it's a NICE TO HAVE which is not the same. if it's that important to you just choose any other device with that feature and everyone is happy. i have wireless charging and don't wanna use it and i have NFC for years and only use it since lollipop to fetch settings from google upon clean install, which i can do without also so it's ok to use it but if not, wo what. of course this does not apply to everyone, but then again, those people should and/or will simply opt for another device, no harm done.
BTW i'm looking for years to again have a phone with xenon flash which i had on my nokia N8 but never found one that suits, if any. but because of this i do not complain every day why the "stupid" oems don't make one. it is as it is and what we get is very good and getting better.
why should i pay twice as much for another imperfect phone from sony or samsung and the likes. no. they are all flawed in one or another way, bezels, build qualities, price tag and so on. so if i have to choose i take best value for money which meets my priorities.
sssggg said:
Of course it does. And it's relevant, because NFC payments that are being authorized by using your phone's fingerprint scanner are making things MUCH easier and faster. The more people get used to paying this way, the more self-checkout registers you will see in the wild.
You guys may be laughing now, but last time I bought something from IKEA, they had at least 6 or 8 self-checkout registers open but only one where you could pay in cash. Pretty much the same situation at a nearby supermarket and the hardware store and this is just the beginning.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's funny, I went to IKEA this weekend and used a self checkout line and paid with cash. Most if not all self checkout lines accept cash...
Mobile payments have NO influence yet over companies adding self checkout lines!
The thought/point you are trying to make is invalid.
---------- Post added at 10:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:11 PM ----------
magnamentis said:
yeah, we flew to the moon in 1996 but still the average user cannot book any trip up there. those payment methods are both, available very sparse and used even more sparse. my point was not if it's technically available or if it exists, it was about whether this is a MUST have NOW which it is not, albeit i agree it's a NICE TO HAVE which is not the same. if it's that important to you just choose any other device with that feature and everyone is happy. i have wireless charging and don't wanna use it and i have NFC for years and only use it since lollipop to fetch settings from google upon clean install, which i can do without also so it's ok to use it but if not, wo what. of course this does not apply to everyone, but then again, those people should and/or will simply opt for another device, no harm done.
BTW i'm looking for years to again have a phone with xenon flash which i had on my nokia N8 but never found one that suits, if any. but because of this i do not complain every day why the "stupid" oems don't make one. it is as it is and what we get is very good and getting better.
why should i pay twice as much for another imperfect phone from sony or samsung and the likes. no. they are all flawed in one or another way, bezels, build qualities, price tag and so on. so if i have to choose i take best value for money which meets my priorities.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Starbucks seems to think otherwise.
http://www.nfcworld.com/2015/07/24/...ks-sales-in-the-us-made-with-mobile-payments/
People *****ed when stores like Walmart, caused problems for the smaller stores, now Amazon is hurting Walmart sales, it never ends. Even so, it was one of the most stupid moves for One Plus to make, was to not support NFC. So much for "Never Settle" and "Flagship Killer of 2016" Even cheap $179 Boost Mobile phones have NFC.
Has anyone considered adapting something like this?:
https://www.kickstarter.com/project...onfcboard-easy-nfc-for-the-internet-of-things
or
http://www.micro4you.com/store/nfc-module.html
One could easily place one of these devices into a case that would carry it on the Oneplus 2.
The first one is an autonomous NFC capable device, so it would seem that you could find a way to use your device to send a message to the device to make a payment via something like bluetooth. The problem (with at least the second) is that it would probably require root to get the drivers and required libs and HAL settings installed into the OS, which would cause Android Pay to fail it's checks, so that would still be a no go. But, if someone in the community had the ability to adapt it into a workable solution, we could lobby Oneplus to include the drivers in a future Oxygen OS release.
I would be interested in assisting in the development of this as a project if a dev who had more knowledge could spear-head it. Certainly, someone who has knowledge to say if it would ever be possible with the requirements of Android Pay to ever work.
As a side note...does anyone besides Samsung Pay use magnetic secure transmission for payments? It seems like a better method in the long term.
I know these aren't for sale anymore since Samsung bought the company, but this seems like it would be doable if any other companies were pursuing it: https://www.looppay.com/products/ Until Samsung bought out this company we would have had the option to buy this device and simply adhere it to a case and use LoopPay to make payments. If this is possible, then surely this or another method would still be a possibility. We just need to find a way to retro-fit it into the current AndroidPay software without failing checks.
By the way, if you are dying to make mobile payments and have a OnePlus 2, you can still find the Looppay device if you scour the internet and the Looppay app is still a free download. It connects to the phone over bluetooth. The downside to the device is that it is a bit large.
Inderjit2332 said:
We know that google introduced new mobile payment system i.e. Android Pay
In order to use android pay we need to Have NFC on our mobile device . One plus 2 which is known as "2016 Flagship killer " Should have NFC so , can we add NFC to OP2 as I have seen two terminals at back of device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
those terminals are for one plus 2 flap cover its not for nfc
My rant about At&t and I why I am angry with them about my predicament with my s7.
PLEASE READ DISCLAIMER AT THE BOTTOM AND ALL ASTRICKED ITEMS. READ AT YOUR OWN RISK.
YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.
I will say how disappointed in at&t I am; it should be illegal to lock phones like this. The last samsung galaxy able to be rooted was the s4 and note 2 (don't quote me on that is was guestimation). But like all the idiots caught up in the buzz of owning the newest device, I got burned by the note 4. Fool me once shame on you, but fool me twice shame on me. I got burned again on the s7, and developers on here have basically given up rooting anything else (since the note 4 crisis there's a large bounty for whomever get the first permaroot) . Maybe if millions of us write to samsung about how at&t is ruining their products, they could do something about this travesty. <b>
Well if could some root required apps to work on my phone I would be much happier. I can't even use the current version of lucky patcher, how stupid is that. <b>
If your phone isn't rooted or have never felt the joy of a rooted phone (it is like endless possibilities all in the palm of your hand), and if you don't know what rooting is, get a clue, (Google it). Beg, barrow, steal one from a guy the next County over, forge one, trade for one, find one, save up for 3 months to buy one on eBay, I don't care how you get a clue, but you need one. The ability to Root our phone should be a fundamental right. (particularly with what went on with Apple and the FBI in California) We buy the phone, pay for it's service, then you treat us like we somehow don't know something has changed. (All the sudden "security updates that happen right after finding root for other devices and then people update their devices and it is gone back to square one.) Who is going to be responsible for all the millions of phones that are going to be trash because of this?
(because now on certain devices it softbricks the phone, sure it roots it, but what good is a rooted phone when you can't use it? (I relate it to something close to ransomware, on a computer, where software hold it (the computer) hostage until you meet the criminal's demands (usually money), so that you can get your computer back, and then sometimes they just leave it in place. (nasty crap fun to get rid of without reinstalling the OS) In this case it holds your phone hostage until you meet at&t's demands of "removing non at&t software", and until such time that the software is removed it remains bricked. If you have this issue, which I have only seen it mentioned a handful of time, and happen to have a Samsung device (with or without warranty) they will fix for free and even pay shipping both ways (now that's how you keep customers happy) I still have this issue as I have not sent my phone in yet and if someone knows how to fix it I would like to know. It goes from the ransom page with the padlock unlocked and warnings from at&t, then it goes to a second page saying that I have a Reactivation Lock in place. I have tried everything stated on the forum about RL, but my case is unique because of my stupid idea of seeing if king root had figured out how to root note 4 at&t sm-N910A version. To answer your question did it work, yes and no. Read the bricking bit above.)
Surely not your loyal customers, surely not the one who actually make and put their name on the phone, no I blame the cell phone companies. They have gotten to big for their own shoes on this one, they stepped in a giant pile of it. How many millions of customers have you lost at&t? Hmmm? Answer that one. Maybe I'll be the next to jump ship, sprint has a great plan, half the price, and they'll pay our way out of the eta( early termination fee(s) ln case you didn't know) up to 600 USD on each line. Sounds good to where do I sign, oh you need to take my piece of it phone and trade it for one the COMES with an unlocked bootloader. Take it I never wanted this piece of it to begin with. Bye At&t, you had a good ride with most of us for longer than a decade, but you done shot yourself in the foot on this one. You should have never changed your name and started in the cell phone business. South Western Bell is dead, and this monstrosity that has been created is nothing more than a shell of its former company, what a bunch of sell outs. I hope you sleep good at night knowing how many people are cursing your name from every roof top and highest building. You don't play with other people's it. It isn't proper nor is it called for. Some customers will be loyal to the end, but I am sick of all the red tape and garbage we have to put up with. Higher rates for the same service? Do you think we are stupid?
DISCLAIMER
*PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS IS MY OWN OPINIONS. IT IS AIMED AT AT&T, AND THEIR INABILITY TO LEAVE A GOOD THING ALONE. IT IS NOT MEANT TO OFFEND US NORMAL FOLK THAT PAY RIDICULOUS PHONE BILLS EVERY MONTH. IF YOU ARE ONE OF THESE PEOPLE AND YOU FIND THIS OFFENSIVE I AM SORRY. I NEVER CUSSED OR SAID ANYTHING OFFENSIVE ABOUT OR TO AN INDIVIDUAL. *
*ANY INSTANCES OF "IT" THAT ARE EXTRAGRAMMATIC ARE A CUSS WORD IN DISGUISE AND IS SELF EXPLANATORY*
PLEASE FEEL FREE TO COMMENT WITH YOUR OWN OPINIONS THIS A JUDGEMENT FREE ZONE, SO PUT SOME FEELING IN IT. OCCASIONAL SWEARING IS TO BE EXPECTED (AS LONG AS IT IS OK WITHIN THE POLICIES OF XDA IF DOUBT DON'T DO IT.).
ANY HELP WITH ABOVE STATED ISSUE PLEASE LINK BELOW SO THE POST ENDS UP IN THE PROPER SECTION (TROUBLESHOOTING AND WHATNOT).
ANYTHING FOUND IN PARENTHESES WAS ADDED FOR CLARIFICATION PURPOSES, AND NOT MEANT TO DEMEAN ANYONE. THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO DO NOT KNOW THE TERM OF KNOWLEDGY.
IF ANYTHING IN THIS RANT HAS BEEN MISREPRESENTED OR IS INCORRECT PLEASE BRING TO MY ATTENTION.
THANK YOU TO ANYONE WHO ACTUALLY READ ALL THIS.
God bless and peace out,
Kelentaria
I switched to AT&T because of direcTV unlimited (saves me 15 bucks a month from what I was paying). I don't really care much about having root access, but I do care about being able to erase the bloat on the phone. Bloat should be optional software, not burned into the OS. Look at Windows for a PC. If you don't want an app that came preloaded, you simply uninstall it. How is that even legal to have software stuck on your phone, which you have no idea what it is doing in the background and also claim you have 32gigs of storage, but you actually only have 19?
I see some of your points, but the whole rooting thing will be an uphill battle. Each company is required by law to patch exploits that allow the system to be compromised. Unless Google makes root access standard (meaning easily unlocked with an app etc) you won't see it again , and if you do, rarely.
I could forgive them for the root issue, but not for the bloat, lack of WiFi calling on android devices, etc.
Your points and opinion is well taken here as a fellow ATT user. We won't even get Samsung to move on rooting and bootloader unlocking since they're path is the business level users. That's mostly to do with all of us modder folks being in the small minority when it comes to purchasing their phones. There should be an option to unlock the bootloader from them directly. Basically them allowing us to either choose to void our warranty to unlock the bootloader which relieves them of the responsibility of folks blaming them for their choice of modding the phone. Similar to the HTC process. But again this is my opinion. ATT on the other hand has been a constant pain with not being consumer friendly for the last 4 years from my guestimation.
psufan5 said:
I switched to AT&T because of direcTV unlimited (saves me 15 bucks a month from what I was paying). I don't really care much about having root access, but I do care about being able to erase the bloat on the phone. Bloat should be optional software, not burned into the OS. Look at Windows for a PC. If you don't want an app that came preloaded, you simply uninstall it. How is that even legal to have software stuck on your phone, which you have no idea what it is doing in the background and also claim you have 32gigs of storage, but you actually only have 19?
I see some of your points, but the whole rooting thing will be an uphill battle. Each company is required by law to patch exploits that allow the system to be compromised. Unless Google makes root access standard (meaning easily unlocked with an app etc) you won't see it again , and if you do, rarely.
I could forgive them for the root issue, but not for the bloat, lack of WiFi calling on android devices, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I suggest you try Package Disabler Pro, its a small price to pay but it works perfectly disabling bloat from Samsung devices. It is not root but at the very least it helps make touchwiz bearable.
---------- Post added at 02:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:54 PM ----------
I don't think there is a single ATT user that doesn't share your opinion but nowadays we all know what we are getting into with them. Only the Nexus line remains untouched but with the recent surge in mobile payment use the manufacturers are locking down phones harder than eve, one the plus side it helps maintain security and protect your hard earned money but sadly some sacrifices must be made. My only wish is that Samsung would finally see the light and at the very least give us the option of stock android in their devices, a tall order I know but one that would be met with enthusiasm.
glm0025 said:
I suggest you try Package Disabler Pro, its a small price to pay but it works perfectly disabling bloat from Samsung devices. It is not root but at the very least it helps make touchwiz bearable.
---------- Post added at 02:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:54 PM ----------
I don't think there is a single ATT user that doesn't share your opinion but nowadays we all know what we are getting into with them. Only the Nexus line remains untouched but with the recent surge in mobile payment use the manufacturers are locking down phones harder than eve, one the plus side it helps maintain security and protect your hard earned money but sadly some sacrifices must be made. My only wish is that Samsung would finally see the light and at the very least give us the option of stock android in their devices, a tall order I know but one that would be met with enthusiasm.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ive done that, but the bloat still takes up a huge chunk of space - the APKs are just disabled
there hasn't been a bootloader unlocked at&t galaxy since the S3. The S4 was bootloader locked, but anyone with AMDL firmware (the second OTA) could bypass the bootloader and load ROMs that way. Anyone that updated past that was stuck with bootstrapped ROMs. The S4 was never bootloader unlocked ever.
psufan5 said:
Ive done that, but the bloat still takes up a huge chunk of space - the APKs are just disabled
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rooted or not, you wouldn't get that space back. The pre-installed crud is installed on the system partition which is a separate space from where user apps (and all data) are stored. If you rooted and deleted those apps, the space would just go unused. (And really, those apps don't take up much space in storage.)
On the other hand, there are things in the AT&T preload that can't be disabled. Some might be daemons that load before (and outside the scope of) android, and others are embedded deep into the existing modules (such as systemUI.) For example, AT&T still uses a variation of carrier IQ software for analytics.
However, even if you had root, you couldn't easily get rid of those things without completely changing the firmware to something else. Once you did that, you'd also lose AT&T variant specific things such as AT&T's implementation of VoLTE, video calling, etc. (Just because other firmware might support features by the same name, it doesn't mean that they'll work on AT&T's network.)
My biggest complaint these days with AT&T variants is that AT&T blocks important system updates. Even VERIZON has become better about releasing firmware updates and upgrades for android phones when compared to AT&T. (Verizon used to hold the crown of being the absolute LAST carrier to update their phones... but no more. Now AT&T clearly owns it.)
Here's the funny thing: AT&T claims that they are locking down bootloaders and such in order to have a higher level of security for business customers. Yet, by taking MONTHS longer to release firmware updates, AT&T phones are often vulnerable to malicious exploits long after those exploits have been fixed by Samsung/HTC/etc.
garyd9 said:
Rooted or not, you wouldn't get that space back. The pre-installed crud is installed on the system partition which is a separate space from where user apps (and all data) are stored. If you rooted and deleted those apps, the space would just go unused. (And really, those apps don't take up much space in storage.)
On the other hand, there are things in the AT&T preload that can't be disabled. Some might be daemons that load before (and outside the scope of) android, and others are embedded deep into the existing modules (such as systemUI.) For example, AT&T still uses a variation of carrier IQ software for analytics.
However, even if you had root, you couldn't easily get rid of those things without completely changing the firmware to something else. Once you did that, you'd also lose AT&T variant specific things such as AT&T's implementation of VoLTE, video calling, etc. (Just because other firmware might support features by the same name, it doesn't mean that they'll work on AT&T's network.)
My biggest complaint these days with AT&T variants is that AT&T blocks important system updates. Even VERIZON has become better about releasing firmware updates and upgrades for android phones when compared to AT&T. (Verizon used to hold the crown of being the absolute LAST carrier to update their phones... but no more. Now AT&T clearly owns it.)
Here's the funny thing: AT&T claims that they are locking down bootloaders and such in order to have a higher level of security for business customers. Yet, by taking MONTHS longer to release firmware updates, AT&T phones are often vulnerable to malicious exploits long after those exploits have been fixed by Samsung/HTC/etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bootloader is locked down for one reason - stop tethering on unlimited plans.
Thats about it.
psufan5 said:
Bootloader is locked down for one reason - stop tethering on unlimited plans.
Thats about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are misinformed.
I completely agree that the situation sucks. I know that this will fall over into the Note 6, and that saddens me. That is why I set up camp on the Apple side of the fence. They are always hacking into ios somehow (no fragmentation i guess?), and the OS, while still not as open as Android has matured a little. I do miss Android, but Samsung was my home, and it isn't easy switching to another OEM when their hardware designs are so different (no physical home button).
I happen to work for Sprint (for the time being), and the prices are better, but our systems suck, and our business practices are kind of shady. Hopefully I don't get into any trouble for this, but customers deserve to know the whole story. Example: a gentleman came in to get a new sim card for his S4 Mini. Now with at&t, you just go get a sim card, and all you have to worry about is standard/micro/nano. With Sprint, however, each size sim card has a wide variety of skus (barcodes), and we use a tool to see which ones are compatible with the device in question. In this guy's case, Sprint had discontinued the only sim card that would work with his phone.
To put it plainly, we force ultimatums on our customers; buy another phone, or do without. I'm actually ashamed to work for this company.
What sickens me is that they disable perfectly fine features to replace them with their crapware. I like their network coverage, but I'm really doubtful if I would/should stay with At&t anymore. I personally don't care much about the bootloader, but the fact that they are doing this sort of thing without facing any sort of push-back, is what annoys me.
sireniankyle said:
I completely agree that the situation sucks. I know that this will fall over into the Note 6, and that saddens me. That is why I set up camp on the Apple side of the fence. They are always hacking into ios somehow (no fragmentation i guess?), and the OS, while still not as open as Android has matured a little. I do miss Android, but Samsung was my home, and it isn't easy switching to another OEM when their hardware designs are so different (no physical home button).
I happen to work for Sprint (for the time being), and the prices are better, but our systems suck, and our business practices are kind of shady. Hopefully I don't get into any trouble for this, but customers deserve to know the whole story. Example: a gentleman came in to get a new sim card for his S4 Mini. Now with at&t, you just go get a sim card, and all you have to worry about is standard/micro/nano. With Sprint, however, each size sim card has a wide variety of skus (barcodes), and we use a tool to see which ones are compatible with the device in question. In this guy's case, Sprint had discontinued the only sim card that would work with his phone.
To put it plainly, we force ultimatums on our customers; buy another phone, or do without. I'm actually ashamed to work for this company.
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I get what you are saying 100% but the only problem for me is that a locked down Android device does more than a jailbreaked iPhone any day of the week.,at the end of the day Android is still more open than IOS. As of right now Marshmallow has proven good enough for me that I'm not missing root or custom roms, that I would root and unlock if I had the chance you better believe it but even 6.0 Touchwiz is bearable right now.
glm0025 said:
I get what you are saying 100% but the only problem for me is that a locked down Android device does more than a jailbreaked iPhone any day of the week.,at the end of the day Android is still more open than IOS. As of right now Marshmallow has proven good enough for me that I'm not missing root or custom roms, that I would root and unlock if I had the chance you better believe it but even 6.0 Touchwiz is bearable right now.
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It heavily depends on how well you know Cydia. . You can change everything about the layout in an iphone through winterboard or dreamboard. You can customize power options, and assign on screen and button shortcuts no matter where you are on the device (app, home screen, locked). Ad blocker, free spotify premium, a youtube downloader built into youtube, custom carrier logos, system wide night mode, keyboard sub symbols, finger print locked apps, remove the media cap in imessage or text messages, enable zedge ringtone downloads, kill all background apps, pop out video for any app, and custom folder sizes.
I can agree that a few of those are just catching up with Android, but a system wide on or off wifi ad blocker is something that only root can do. There are some things, like the no media cap in messages, that even a rooted android device can't technically do (depends on the carrier I suppose), because they don't go through Apple servers.
This isn't me crapping on Android. I love Android. I just needed a place to hold up until Samsung gets it together. I refuse to buy their locked up garbage anymore. The htc 10 is looking pretty good, too, but I was hoping for something with amoled.
Just so everyone is clear, we dont discuss piracy or fraud or such on XDA.
App developers work hard for their money, trust me it is hard to earn a living at 99cents a pop. Lets support our developers instead of supporting theft.
You're dumb. You're *****ing about a $600 term fee which is impossible for a single line. Buy your phone international or unlocked if this is such an issue for you and stop whining. The ATT model of phones are NOT for power users. Plain and simple. I'm surprised so many people are taking the time to read you *****ing.
This post is so funny...
You are all over the place with your words, your thoughts and your anger.
Why would you purchase the S7 on AT&T if you already knew all of this?
Especially if this has already happened to you with your Note 4?
End of the day, most of the customers who use AT&T have no idea about root. They have no care or concern about these things.
People like us, on XDA, who love to root and customize our phones have to understand that there is a paradigm shift in Android (particularly in regards to Samsung devices) that focuses on security rather than customization. Especially when dealing with Carrier phones. The bloat, the locked bootloader, the restrictions all have their reasons for existing.
Especially when Samsung is amidst a global (albeit slow) roll out of Samsung Pay. Trying to align themselves ever so closely with Apple in terms of quality and brand recognition.
Samsung Pay will NEVER work on a rooted phone, EVER! Doesn't matter if you restore stock firmware etc...
Carriers also have their reasons as well...
There are plenty of reasons why they both do it, most of which I don't want to sit here and write out one by one. Like you said in your post... Google it.
End of the day, if you want to root or customize your device then you should do your research before dropping $700+ on a phone.
Plenty of bloat free, bootloader unlocked, international and non carrier phones available for you to achieve root and enjoy Android.
Coming on here and posting a wall of whine just makes you look silly and childish.
Yes, it sucks... I share your annoyance as I'm sure many other AT&T/XDA members do as well - for years now.
End of the day, these mega corporations don't care about you or what makes you happy. It's a business, their business, deal with it. We all have to... If you want to protest, protest with your wallet.
HNIC215 said:
Samsung Pay will NEVER work on a rooted phone, EVER! Doesn't matter if you restore stock firmware etc...
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While I tend to agree with the majority of your post, I think this one statement I quoted might be a bit too absolute.
My understanding of SPay is that it relies on the KNOX fuse to determine if a phone is modified. If true, then if an exploit is discovered and implemented which grants root without tripping KNOX, then SPay could possibly work on a rooted device. (Hiding root is doable, and supersu has been playing the cat/mouse game with Android Pay for several months on this...)
The galaxy S6 was rootable without tripping KNOX when it was initially released...
Of course, it's possible that there's something in the samsung firmware that will immediately trip KNOX if root is even detected. If so, it's something new that hasn't been there before. Previously, tripping KNOX required an action at the bootloader level - and usually occurred when an image not signed by samsung was flashed via ODIN.
Moving slightly off topic...
The problem, in my opinion, isn't that root can't be gained. There are plenty of exploits for gaining privileges that either Samsung takes too long to patch, or that the carriers (specifically AT&T) take too long to release the patches for. (AT&T is already 2 months behind on the S7's security patches. Those are patches for security concerns that are now publicly announced and should be easily exploited by reverse engineering the fixes that google publishes.)
The real problem is that people who would develop and publish a root method for hobbyists don't care anymore. Those people aren't going to buy a bootloader locked S7. Either they'll buy a different phone entirely (from a manufacturer that's more dev friendly), or they'll buy a non-carrier model that isn't bootloader locked. (Actually, there's another group, but it's very small: Industry insiders who are constrained by legal agreements (such as NDA's) preventing them from releasing anything they might come up with.)
garyd9 said:
While I tend to agree with the majority of your post, I think this one statement I quoted might be a bit too absolute.
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That's what a Samsung Rep told me when I had the international Note 5 and wanted to know if I would be able to use Samsung Pay here in the states.
First, they said Samsung Pay would have to be available in the device's country of origin.
Second, they said the device can NEVER be rooted. If the device is rooted, it will NEVER be able to run Samsung Pay on it for the remainder of its life. Regardless if you restore with stock firmware and unroot.
Which makes sense actually when you think about it.
Apple is and has been synonymous with security and safety - in general but especially in regards to Apple Pay.
Samsung has always been considered the "Apple" or "iPhone" of the Android world - this statement holds true now more than ever before.
With Samsung Pay being released globally (slowly but surely)... Samsung will not risk the security of their platform by any means at all.
Letting users gain root access to their devices can potentially expose parts of their secure Samsung Pay platform and risk a major security or privacy incident that would lead to global fallout regardless of where the incident took place.
They will never allow this - especially with the progress they have made over the years to build a premium brand.
With the S7 and S7 Edge - they further that tradition and bring more security than ever.
Don't take my word for it...
Samsung Knox recognised as the strongest mobile security platform
Samsung has received strongest ratings for its mobile security platform Knox in areas including authentication methods, encryption management, jailbreak or root protection and application vetting.
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The latest version of Knox is currently available for Galaxy S7 and S7 Edge and optimised for Android 6.0 Marshmallow.
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According to a report, Mobile Device Security: A comparison of Platforms by renowned market analyst firm Gartner, Samsung's latest security platform Knox version 2.6 got the most strong ratings for any mobile security platform. The firm analysed the core OS security features built into a total of 12 mobile device platforms as well as enterprise management capabilities. Samsung also managed to gain leadership in mobile security market though Knox, coupled with Samsung Pay.
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Source:
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/samsung-knox-recognised-strongest-mobile-security-platform-1554836
HNIC215 said:
That's what a Samsung Rep told me when I had the international Note 5 and wanted to know if I would be able to use Samsung Pay here in the states.
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Okay.. I wonder if he's related to one of the "samsung reps" that work in Best Buy stores.... or the ones that come visit AT&T stores on occasion. For the most part, they are really good in reciting the marketing material, but when it comes to details, they are clueless. In fact, at least as bad as Radio Shack sales people.
"KNOX" is a confusing term.
First, there's "KNOX" as a software security suite that is very closely related to what google calls "Android for Work." Both are basically a "secure" and private container/sandbox. The idea is that you take a personal smartphone to work and can run "work" apps that are completely sandboxes from personal apps. This has nothing whatsoever to do with SPay. SPay doesn't make use of this element of KNOX.
KNOX is also the name of a fuse in the device (which is likely a qualcomm "qfuse" in the SD820 S7's) that trips when the bootloader detects an unsigned kernel/recovery. _THIS_ is the KNOX that relates to SPay. Real human beings (not samsung sales or support reps) have confirmed that once the KNOX fuse is tripped, it prevents SPay from working. (It also prevents KNOX, the software suite mentioned above, from working.)
Now I need to express things in strange ways, and I hope you'll forgive the odd phrasing:
As far as devs on XDA and other sites similar to XDA have been able to determine, "root" does not prevent SPay from functioning. In fact, my understanding is that there are people who rooted their Galaxy S6 without tripping the KNOX fuse, later reverted to factory firmware, allowed the phone to OTA to newer firmware that included SPay, and SPay worked fine. However, there are others who have tripped the KNOX fuse while rooted who can no longer use SPay. The key here is that KNOX fuse...
I can say with a very large degree of confidence that SPay will work just fine if you happened to had a device that somehow had a working "su" binary in the path AND KNOX wasn't tripped. That might happen if the bootloader was designed to not trip KNOX... such as someone who developed software for preloads might have on a test device. Based only on information in the public domain, it might also happen if an exploit was found that didn't require flashing a custom kernel, recovery, etc.
It's POSSIBLE, and I actually don't know this, that the firmware released on these devices publicly has code to force tripping the KNOX fuse if root is detected. The galaxy S6 did NOT have this mechanism when towel root (or whatever root method it was) worked on it. I somehow doubt that samsung would have added this to the firmware, as there's too great a chance for a false positive, and tripping that KNOX flag is permanent.
In android user terms, a "rooted" device is merely a device that has a working suid "su" binary in the path owned by the 'root' user. (Later versions of android also require some sepolicy changes, but that's outside the scope of this thread.) That binary might be on /system or it might be in the kernel partition. However, neither is a permanent change to the device, and therefore it can be removed with no trace.
garyd9 said:
Okay.. I wonder if he's related to one of the "samsung reps" that work in Best Buy stores.... or the ones that come visit AT&T stores on occasion. For the most part, they are really good in reciting the marketing material, but when it comes to details, they are clueless. In fact, at least as bad as Radio Shack sales people.
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No this wasn't in person... Nor was it someone from the states (from what I could tell).
It was with a technician over the phone because the first customer service rep had no idea - so she transferred me to a technician.
Regardless, there is no point in discussing this endlessly.
There are already plenty of folks out there who are trying to solve this issue, only time will tell if they can succeed.
Let's see what happens.
Anybody think we'll get some kind of update pushed out allowing us to unlock our bootloader now that lg wont be making phones anymore?
I'm honestly surprised no one has chimed in. At all. These are some great phones. Being able to root and customize would make this phone a ton better. But I don't think lg cares at all.
I wouldn't count on it, personally. I'm frankly surprised that they've committed to 2-3 major OS upgrades (or as many years of support) for their post-2019 flagships as is, like our V60. I think that, beyond I suppose a renewed focus on their software update department, they're just going to completely wash their hands with mobile. And I still think they'll ultimately fail us on that promise of 2 to 3 years of software support. With no more active R&D and development on new devices and their software, we can probably completely rule out refreshed UIs and just expect bi-monthly security updates, maybe Android 12 on our V60s, and perhaps Android 13 on the Wings and Velvets. If that. I'm still extremely skeptical.
Edit - Edited to fix the supposed final Android versions for the V60s, Velvets, Wings, etc.
Mejilan said:
I wouldn't count on it, personally. I'm frankly surprised that they've committed to 2-3 major OS upgrades (or as many years of support) for their post-2019 flagships as is, like our V60. I think that, beyond I suppose a renewed focus on their software update department, they're just going to completely wash their hands with mobile. And I still think they'll ultimately fail us on that promise of 2 to 3 years of software support. With no more active R&D and development on new devices and their software, we can probably completely rule out refreshed UIs and just expect bi-monthly security updates, maybe Android 11 on our V60s, and perhaps Android 12 on the Wings and Velvets. If that. I'm still extremely skeptical.
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We do hace android 11 for V60, at least TMobile model. I wouldnt bet on A12 though. They should release bootloader code and what not though so we can at least get a bootloader unlock and aim for custom roms and such. Just because there backing out of the smartphone business now dosent mean there isnt a chance for comeback later. If they just screw everyone completely right now there not only ruining chances of a future comeback but also ruining there already bad name.
jwarrior319 said:
We do hace android 11 for V60, at least TMobile model. I wouldnt bet on A12 though. They should release bootloader code and what not though so we can at least get a bootloader unlock and aim for custom roms and such. Just because there backing out of the smartphone business now dosent mean there isnt a chance for comeback later. If they just screw everyone completely right now there not only ruining chances of a future comeback but also ruining there already bad name.
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Yeah, I'm on AT&T and got A11 a couple of updates back. I too would be shocked to get A12 as well, though it sounds like they're at least planning on supporting the V60 that long. They have no real interest in catering to folks who jailbreak or root, as that makes up an infinitesimally small part of their potential demographic. In other words, catering to folks like us that post to forums like this isn't going to be any kind of factor for them in the short-term or long-term future, IMO. We are not the audience that makes or breaks their mobile business, and we never will be. As for the post you quoted, I meant to say "maybe Android 12 on our V60s, and Android 13 on the Velvets and Wings." (stress on the "maybe). I'll fix that post.
I would love to see it, but I will not hold my breath. Would provide a great deal of goodwill toward the company.