Related
I have searched almost everywhere, but could not find this. I am surprised no such app for android exists
So should I conclude it is impossible due to some restriction in android OS to record incomming call or to play a message in incomming call, and hence, not possible to make an answering machine app ??
An app that has the features like isecretary has for windows mobile???
Why me and many others like me want this:
we do not have any voicemail service like hullomail, youmail etc available in our country.
voicemail is not free and is heavily charged
also no google service does this in our country afaik
Can any expert android developer tell me in detail as to why making such an app is not possible ??
ps: if it is at all possible I am ready to pay for this project :s
__^BUMP^__
any1 ??
_^BUMP^__
Don't wanna multi-post but I really really need this
Can any1 point me in some direction ?? or just a hint maybe :s
Bumping here again after so many days .. hoping somebody might have some knowledge regarding this
Arjs said:
Why me and many others like me want this:
we do not have any voicemail service like hullomail, youmail etc available in our country.
voicemail is not free and is heavily charged
also no google service does this in our country afaik
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
bump it up for you. ... . it'll be interesting to have of these apps for android
probably the last hopeless bump .. no1 has any idea about my original question -
So should I conclude it is impossible due to some restriction in android OS to record incomming call or to play a message in incomming call, and hence, not possible to make an answering machine app ??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Arjs said:
probably the last hopeless bump .. no1 has any idea about my original question -
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not so sure many App programers visit these forums. Even something basic would be nice. It would only work on a Rooted phone however.
There are many people on xda with good knowledge about Android and its possibilities.. But as you said, I don't think anyone of them cares about whats going on in this forum.
People are asking questions and same average users are trying to answer their questions by guessing stuff.
Nobody even with a little knowledge is trying to answer the question, as to why is this not possible!!!!
Arjs said:
There are many people on xda with good knowledge about Android and its possibilities.. But as you said, I don't think anyone of them cares about whats going on in this forum.
People are asking questions and same average users are trying to answer their questions by guessing stuff.
Nobody even with a little knowledge is trying to answer the question, as to why is this not possible!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Probably because between their real job and their families, their free time is taken by developing roms or apps that make your phone awesome, while usually getting very little in return. Whatever time is left over, I hope they spend enjoying themselves or relaxing.
If it's that important, either learn to do it yourself or pm a developer and ask them (nicely!) if it's possible.
It's improbable that such an app would be possible. An internet connection and/or call forwarding would most likely be a requirement, which is not what you're asking for.
Sent from my Evo + MIUI using Tapatalk!
Arjs said:
So should I conclude it is impossible due to some restriction in android OS to record incomming call
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This seems to be a problem and a major complain from Android devs. There is no API to control the audio from incoming calls. Google problably doesnt include APIs to avoid privacy issues.
Im not sure about audio from you in a call if there are APIs for it.
The program, in theory with these APIs, is possible as it is very simple.
There is undocumented APIs which people have used to record audio from incoming calls. You need root and someone they dont work.
So if you want this then yes, you are either going to have to pay someone, learn how they have (using root and undocumented APIs) made it possible to record incoming voice from calls, or wait for Google to release call and voice related APIs.
---------- Post added at 12:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:20 PM ----------
In SDK 14 this has been added (maybe with workarounds it can be helpful to what you want):
Voicemail Provider
The new Voicemail Provider allows applications to add voicemails to the device, in order to present all the user's voicemails in a single visual presentation. For instance, it’s possible that a user has multiple voicemail sources, such as one from the phone’s service provider and others from VoIP or other alternative voice services. These apps can use the Voicemail Provider APIs to add their voicemails to the device. The built-in Phone application then presents all voicemails to the user in a unified presentation. Although the system’s Phone application is the only application that can read all the voicemails, each application that provides voicemails can read those that it has added to the system (but cannot read voicemails from other services).
Because the APIs currently do not allow third-party apps to read all the voicemails from the system, the only third-party apps that should use the voicemail APIs are those that have voicemail to deliver to the user.
The VoicemailContract class defines the content provider for the Voicemail Provder. The subclasses VoicemailContract.Voicemails and VoicemailContract.Status provide tables in which apps can insert voicemail data for storage on the device. For an example of a voicemail provider app, see the Voicemail Provider Demo.
plainjane said:
Probably because between their real job and their families, their free time is taken by developing roms or apps that make your phone awesome, while usually getting very little in return. Whatever time is left over, I hope they spend enjoying themselves or relaxing.
If it's that important, either learn to do it yourself or pm a developer and ask them (nicely!) if it's possible.
It's improbable that such an app would be possible. An internet connection and/or call forwarding would most likely be a requirement, which is not what you're asking for.
Sent from my Evo + MIUI using Tapatalk!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol what is your problem dude?? are you some sort of messiah ?
The point of these forums is people helping out each other and sometimes those with more knowledge than the average user, also jump in to the rescue. If those developers didn't have time apart from their daily life, the Q&A thread would never be created in the first place. And there are people, who are not developers, but have a much better android knowledge and are helping people on these forums.
read what I wrote-
I don't think anyone of them cares about whats going on in this forum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And there is a reason, I said that, because I have seen threads like mine, on the same issue from more than a year old.. lying without answers. No one is even trying to figure it out. My humble request to you is, if you don't know anything regarding this, and cannot understand our problem, and haven't read other thread like these from the last one year.. just mind your own business please and let us deal with our problem.
We are still here // still posting.. because we still hope someone with knowledge would read these threads someday and reply a meaningful reply.
riahc3 said:
This seems to be a problem and a major complain from Android devs. There is no API to control the audio from incoming calls. Google problably doesnt include APIs to avoid privacy issues.
Im not sure about audio from you in a call if there are APIs for it.
The program, in theory with these APIs, is possible as it is very simple.
There is undocumented APIs which people have used to record audio from incoming calls. You need root and someone they dont work.
So if you want this then yes, you are either going to have to pay someone, learn how they have (using root and undocumented APIs) made it possible to record incoming voice from calls, or wait for Google to release call and voice related APIs.
---------- Post added at 12:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:20 PM ----------
In SDK 14 this has been added (maybe with workarounds it can be helpful to what you want):
Voicemail Provider
The new Voicemail Provider allows applications to add voicemails to the device, in order to present all the user's voicemails in a single visual presentation. For instance, it’s possible that a user has multiple voicemail sources, such as one from the phone’s service provider and others from VoIP or other alternative voice services. These apps can use the Voicemail Provider APIs to add their voicemails to the device. The built-in Phone application then presents all voicemails to the user in a unified presentation. Although the system’s Phone application is the only application that can read all the voicemails, each application that provides voicemails can read those that it has added to the system (but cannot read voicemails from other services).
Because the APIs currently do not allow third-party apps to read all the voicemails from the system, the only third-party apps that should use the voicemail APIs are those that have voicemail to deliver to the user.
The VoicemailContract class defines the content provider for the Voicemail Provder. The subclasses VoicemailContract.Voicemails and VoicemailContract.Status provide tables in which apps can insert voicemail data for storage on the device. For an example of a voicemail provider app, see the Voicemail Provider Demo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't notice this reply was made, when I was typing my previous post.
Thanks a lot, riahc3 for helping us out. Finally someone comes to the rescue xD
Google problably doesnt include APIs to avoid privacy issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, I have been reading regarding this lately, but I wasn't so sure until now. So this is a fact now that this is not possible in "normal" case (well, this almost answers my main question) as we don't have the APIs from google to help develop an app which is able to manipulate incoming call. And they do have a good reason for this i agree - privacy issues.
made it possible to record incoming voice from calls
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well, then I guess I have to keep searching and learning more regarding this. I guess i' ll start with the Voicemail Provider Demo.
Thanks a lot again bro.. for finding out so much regarding the issue ..that helps clear out "the big confusion" . and hopefully, as you said, some workaround might be possible using the sdk14...
what arjas and i am looking for
We have an answering machine and voice mail available on the Samsung Start GT-5233A where you can set up the answering machine easily. It plays a greeting when you do not pick up and if he caller wishes, they can record a message as well.
This is a built in application. I believe Arjas and i are looking, trying to find a similar application for android.
I have a galaxy tab 10.1 but no luck so far.
ukayani said:
We have an answering machine and voice mail available on the Samsung Start GT-5233A where you can set up the answering machine easily. It plays a greeting when you do not pick up and if he caller wishes, they can record a message as well.
This is a built in application. I believe Arjas and i are looking, trying to find a similar application for android.
I have a galaxy tab 10.1 but no luck so far.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
check out this post, talking exactly abt your requirement. share some thought so others might find helpful
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=22304548&postcount=12
Answering Machine for Android
Though There's no straight app for this, u can combine 2 apps to get the Answering Machine.
1) Auto Call Answer
2)auto call recorder.
of-course there are lots of similar applications too for each type. install both apps from the market.
when ever u don't answer the the call for certain number of rings the 1st app picks the call and plays the voice u recorded for the caller.But it cant record the callers voice.
Thats where the 2nd app comes in handy.It will record all the incoming calls irrespective of whether u lifted or the auto responder lifted.
When ever u find time u can check the recordings which are saved mostly by the number and time.
For the time being this is the only solution we have.
Also mind u,In the calls recorded the callers voice is very low in most of the android devices.Blame google for not giving API for that.So what the apps generally does is it will record from the mic resulting in poor quality.
I also observed that android devices with honkong firmware and arabic firmwares
the recording quality is good.I think the API is buit-in for that firmware.As recording calls in their countries is legal.
Unfortunately in India call recording is not legal.so is in most of the countries.
So the trick is to flash ur cell with honkong(hhkk) or arabic(jpxx) firmwares and u have the rec option right away in dailer options.Then try installing those two apps.
I am using Galaxy Note initially was on Indian firmware now i changed it honkong version and enjoying the rec fecility which is crystal clear.
But as u said when other brands like symbian,windows are offering this app theres no point in google not letting the developers do it. its shame for the owner of a 30k cell phone running the so called great android and not having a fecility that a cheap 3k phone has.
wakeup guys
if not u,who?
if not now when?
What about something like pbxes.org or something like that? The short answer to your original question is "Not right now" for the reasons mentioned by a previous poster. ICS seems to have the appropriate hooks built in, but that isn't the same as having the app.
I can't believe there isn't a SIP provider you could get set up with and manage voicemail over IP. But you would know better than me what you can reach or not. Just thinking there must be some other way to skin that cat.
It would be nice to have an offline standalone answering machine that plays greeting and records voice messages in the SD or phone's memory.
That will save me $7/month, so I am not expecting it for free.
Hi guys, I was thinking the same thing, then I found this thread.
My need is to have an app that answers an incoming call after 3-4 ringing, then it should play a short record and after that start recording the call.
For example when I'm doing shower and friends come my home, they call me, so it will be useful to have an app that auto-answer and say "I'm on shower, take keys under the tree and enter"...:laugh:
I read previous posts, so I will try the 2 apps. Is there something new in the air? ICS is out since June...
I would spend 5 euros or something more for an app like this...
will we ever see that app ?
I hope so
It may be #1 wanted app in android
Anyway don't try to download "Auto call answer" it seems to be a malware
Anyone know? I can't figure it out. Its filling my storage.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using XDA
Turn it off. (Couldn't resist.)
Might help if you told us what ROM you're using.
I'd sure like to record my calls...without recording from the mic. I miss that function on my Windows Mobile phones...
What? That scares the poop right out of me. How'd you find out it was recording your calls? What started it? What Rom are you using?
If this isn't an explicit feature of the Rom (even if it was...if its not clear how to turn it off...) i would be running out the door with a pitchfork.
Jamesyboy said:
What? That scares the poop right out of me. How'd you find out it was recording your calls? What started it? What Rom are you using?
If this isn't an explicit feature of the Rom (even if it was...if its not clear how to turn it off...) i would be running out the door with a pitchfork.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a feature in Saurom. As far as I know, it doesn't record until you actually press the button.
Sent from my SGH-I717R using xda premium
Based on what I've heard, you don't even need a custom ROM to do this - you can just open voice recorder while in a call, and hit record.
It will record both sides of the conversation.
You need to check the legality of this in whatever state you happen to be in, especially if you plan to use it as some sort of official evidence of anything. Some states are single party (meaning on one of the parties on the line needs to be aware that the call is recorded) while others require all parties to be aware.
Very serious offense if you get caught on the wrong side of these laws, as they are considered wire tapping.
baudilus said:
Based on what I've heard, you don't even need a custom ROM to do this - you can just open voice recorder while in a call, and hit record.
It will record both sides of the conversation.
You need to check the legality of this in whatever state you happen to be in, especially if you plan to use it as some sort of official evidence of anything. Some states are single party (meaning on one of the parties on the line needs to be aware that the call is recorded) while others require all parties to be aware.
Very serious offense if you get caught on the wrong side of these laws, as they are considered wire tapping.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the first thing I tried. No go. Anything I've downloaded from Google Play just used the microphone to record during a speakerphone call, or crashed.
Hi can anyone help me in finding a decent call recorder for the Galaxy S10 please x
salsa1976 said:
Hi can anyone help me in finding a decent call recorder for the Galaxy S10 please x
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you are rooted, use skvalex call recorder.
salsa1976 said:
Hi can anyone help me in finding a decent call recorder for the Galaxy S10 please x
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why not use Samsung's inbuilt call recorder?
I use it, and works perfectly as it should be!
Depends. If you have the United States variant, built in call recording isn't even available for us..
Which one will record both sides ?
dodo34 said:
Which one will record both sides ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because it is a kernel-related restriction, no application will be able to bypass it. So, the answer is: none.
Except, of course, if you are on custom roms or rooted...
Change you region phone, do not need to root.
PeterParker said:
Change you region phone, do not need to root.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He doesn't work with me that way.
Can you explain the way in detail
.... I don't want root but I want to record calls and I had to work too much root but most bank applications are disabled and can't be put in root skipping at all
Abo-Wa3d said:
He doesn't work with me that way.
Can you explain the way in detail
.... I don't want root but I want to record calls and I had to work too much root but most bank applications are disabled and can't be put in root skipping at all
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Buy THL (Thailand) sim card, format your phone with sim card inside, and thats all, after that insert your sim card again, and its done.
I have do that and it works, I have native call recorder.
It only work with Multi region rom installed OXM ex: my phone SM-G973F
This one works
I use CubeACR (find it in Play Store).
It bypass the limitations explained above by using the Accessibility options (If I understood well).
Works fine for me (NON rooted, stock Samsung Android 10 ROM, G973F dual SIM EU spec, 8-128 setup).
It records both sides and even Whatsapp and alike calls. The free version has ads (set up a private DNS if you bother that - I do, I would purchase the app but the creators only offer time-based subscriptions and not a lifetime license) and also the free version only record calls in .AMR format, though you can easily convert the ones you want to keep to any other format or simply let them as they are - recording quality is fine anyway.
Just follow carefully the setup wizard when you first start the app.
Give it a try, and you'll see. Hope this heps
Cheers!
Manualeitor said:
I use CubeACR (find it in Play Store).
It bypass the limitations explained above by using the Accessibility options (If I understood well).
Works fine for me (NON rooted, stock Samsung Android 10 ROM, G973F dual SIM EU spec, 8-128 setup).
It records both sides and even Whatsapp and alike calls. The free version has ads (set up a private DNS if you bother that - I do, I would purchase the app but the creators only offer time-based subscriptions and not a lifetime license) and also the free version only record calls in .AMR format, though you can easily convert the ones you want to keep to any other format or simply let them as they are - recording quality is fine anyway.
Just follow carefully the setup wizard when you first start the app.
Give it a try, and you'll see. Hope this heps
Cheers!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope, it doesn't record both sides. I tested this app last year and I tested it now again and it seems they found a better way to record from speakers. The level of background noise is high but you can hear the other voice, so... beter than nothig...
Well, anyway it is as you said. Better than nothing. Certainly I'm using it at home, 'cause I make and receive calls mainly when I'm there. I will try and test outside to see how bad is the surrounding noise. With my old J3 2016 there was much simpler, easy to install TWRP, Magisk etc, and record calls was piece of cake with AOSP Call Recorder. No issues at all. Now, this is a flagship much better phone but... It seems this kind of 'playing' is not that easy. Pity!
Cheers!
tiho5 said:
If you are rooted, use skvalex call recorder.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Call Recorder - Cube ACR - Apps on Google Play
Call recorder, Record phone calls, Signal, WhatsApp, Viber, Call recording app
play.google.com
Hello guys.
I have been using 4A for about 6 months now. My calling is heavy due to nature of my work. However, I am really disappointed by the dialer which 4A comes with due to following reasons-
1. No unlimited call logs which is a very big bummer. It's such a basic thing any phone maker must provide.
2. Smart search from dialer is as bad as it can be. I'm coming from a Xiaomi phone and Google should really learn a few things how to make a dialer app. The search is billion times better in the latter.
3. Lack of call recording which I can live with but is desirable.
Basically I'm asking if I can install any third party dialer (preferably MiUI) ? I'm ready to root if it's needed.
Please help me. I'm on the verge of going back to my MIUI phone as my main phone just because of this crappy dialer.
PS: I can't go custom ROM way because I don't want to lose stock camera's quality.
Thanks
dashing.sujay said:
Hello guys.
I have been using 4A for about 6 months now. My calling is heavy due to nature of my work. However, I am really disappointed by the dialer which 4A comes with due to following reasons-
1. No unlimited call logs which is a very big bummer. It's such a basic thing any phone maker must provide.
2. Smart search from dialer is as bad as it can be. I'm coming from a Xiaomi phone and Google should really learn a few things how to make a dialer app. The search is billion times better in the latter.
3. Lack of call recording which I can live with but is desirable.
Basically I'm asking if I can install any third party dialer (preferably MiUI) ? I'm ready to root if it's needed.
Please help me. I'm on the verge of going back to my MIUI phone as my main phone just because of this crappy dialer.
PS: I can't go custom ROM way because I don't want to lose stock camera's quality.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try using TruePhone ( https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.hb.dialer.free ). I have call recording and I have never came to a situation where call log was too short - I have checked my favorite contact and I have log since I installed it.
P. S. U have root on my phone, but I am not convinced if it is needed. Try it as IMHO is the best dialer with tons on customization.
dashing.sujay said:
1. No unlimited call logs which is a very big bummer. It's such a basic thing any phone maker must provide.
2. Smart search from dialer is as bad as it can be. I'm coming from a Xiaomi phone and Google should really learn a few things
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi,
Can you elaborate on these two?
I ask because if I click the middle "Recents" button at the bottom, the call log is very limited. But if I then click the three dot button in the top right and select "Call History", it will go back very far in time.
Also, what problems are you having with the smart search? Can you mention a couple of examples?
JohnC said:
Hi,
Can you elaborate on these two?
I ask because if I click the middle "Recents" button at the bottom, the call log is very limited. But if I then click the three dot button in the top right and select "Call History", it will go back very far in time.
Also, what problems are you having with the smart search? Can you mention a couple of examples?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did check the history and surprisingly found out today that my call records are only till 6th of April from today and then directly to Oct 2020. Don't know how is that possible, but this is what I found.
I'll explain my problem to you.
When I bought this phone, I had imported around 10k call logs records but when I used to check history of numbers I dial frequently, I came to know it's not storing unlimited history. Like the person whom I have called 20 times has only 2 entries in the log.
Until today I didn't know that history between 20 Oct 2020 to April 5, 2021 is missing. I don't have a sane explanation for this.
Regarding smart search, see following scenarios:
It doesn't search if I type keywords which are between the names. Eg name is John, if I type 646, it should show but it doesn't. It always search with first letter only, be it name or surname.
Second case.
I have a name saved called Prathmesh, my dialer always fails to show it. I dial 77284, it shows other relevant search results but not this and when I type next digit, no results at all. In the frequent updates of Google dialer phone app, after one particular update, it started searching but after next update again stopped. This is one example, I can give more.
Third case.
It doesn't search from unsaved numbers. Suppose I vaguely remember I had received a call from a number which had 5555 at last but couldn't exactly remember, there is no way I could find using Google dialer.
TomekUser said:
Try using TruePhone ( https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.hb.dialer.free ). I have call recording and I have never came to a situation where call log was too short - I have checked my favorite contact and I have log since I installed it.
P. S. U have root on my phone, but I am not convinced if it is needed. Try it as IMHO is the best dialer with tons on customization.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for app suggestion buddy.
It solved almost all of my problems.
Now I can search the way I want, can record calls, and possibly can store unlimited logs.
Thanks a ton again.
dashing.sujay said:
Thanks for app suggestion buddy.
It solved almost all of my problems.
Now I can search the way I want, can record calls, and possibly can store unlimited logs.
Thanks a ton again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was happy with the app but now call recording isn't working.
I have been using drupe dialer (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=mobi.drupe.app&hl=en_US&gl=US) for many years to address exactly the problems that you have mentioned. You can give it a try. But here also, the inbuilt call recorder is not working with Pixel 4a. It used to work with my older Oneplus X.
Does anyone know how I can enable call recording on my device? For some reason its not showing up and I live in one of the countries where call recording is listed to be working. Not to mention my Samsung A72 has this working already
biglo said:
Does anyone know how I can enable call recording on my device? For some reason its not showing up and I live in one of the countries where call recording is listed to be working. Not to mention my Samsung A72 has this working already
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No clue how it's supposed to do it out of the box as I'm in the states and mine is tmobile. I had to root and install a call recorder app.
alarmdude9 said:
No clue how it's supposed to do it out of the box as I'm in the states and mine is tmobile. I had to root and install a call recorder app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which app did you end up installing? I used to have ACR but they don't really support root and apparently neither do they Android 12.
For me, Call recorder by Skvalex is the best call recorder in the market, the playstore version has some featuers blocked by google, so I would advise to use the version on the website.
DenisEhm said:
Which app did you end up installing? I used to have ACR but they don't really support root and apparently neither do they Android 12.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use Call recorder by Skvalex. Seems to be the best and I bought the pay version. Auto upload to drive. Never had a problem out of it.
gmbarr said:
For me, Call recorder by Skvalex is the best call recorder in the market, the playstore version has some featuers blocked by google, so I would advise to use the version on the website.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
alarmdude9 said:
I use Call recorder by Skvalex. Seems to be the best and I bought the pay version. Auto upload to drive. Never had a problem out of it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes that's what I'm starting to see. I'm miffed I have to pay for another app but it seems pretty solid.
DenisEhm said:
Yes that's what I'm starting to see. I'm miffed I have to pay for another app but it seems pretty solid.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The free version may work for you. My needs for it are rather precise so I paid for it.
I had a license for Skvalex from 2017 so I was able to utilize this with the app without paying again which is cool so no complaints here. The only nitpick I have is the fact that it records the ringing of the calls and not when the person picks up lol.
biglo said:
Does anyone know how I can enable call recording on my device? For some reason its not showing up and I live in one of the countries where call recording is listed to be working. Not to mention my Samsung A72 has this working already
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See if this helps you to record calls, it is an official google site!
Use the Phone app to record calls - Phone app Help
You can use your Phone app to: Always record calls from unknown numbers. Always record calls from selected contacts. Record an individual call. You can playback saved recordings. You can als
support.google.com
biglo said:
I had a license for Skvalex from 2017 so I was able to utilize this with the app without paying again which is cool so no complaints here. The only nitpick I have is the fact that it records the ringing of the calls and not when the person picks up lol.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can change that in the settings > recording > Standard API > Start recording on answer
gmbarr said:
You can change that in the settings > recording > Standard API > Start recording on answer
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks!
thanks for the info all. I was wondering myself.
Also, I don't see a single "Like" for a thank you here. I think people who take their time to respond should be recognized.
cheers all